I saw a nice preview on im guessing it was yesterdays episode of xplay as i watched it earlier today. It didn't leave me feeling very good about this game. It just seemed exactly like a single player game from what I saw. I love single player games, but I guess I just wish I could have seen some more team work with other people rather than this cast of npc characters that join up with you.
I saw a nice preview on im guessing it was yesterdays episode of xplay as i watched it earlier today. It didn't leave me feeling very good about this game. It just seemed exactly like a single player game from what I saw. I love single player games, but I guess I just wish I could have seen some more team work with other people rather than this cast of npc characters that join up with you.
What MMO preview videos don't make it seem kinda single playerish, except when they are going over group-specific stuff?
I do agree I'd like to see some teamwork examples before everything is said and done.
I don't relish this game on account of Bioware's (over) use of cutscenes either. They should seriously consider marketing their products as interactive stories with combat minigames.
Good, point, I just wish there was a name for interactive stories with combat minigames... oh wait a sec, I think there is! They're called "Role Playing Games".
This game is shaping up to look like a really good game. Even though I'm a far bigger Star Trek fan than a Star Wars fan, I may have to skip Star Trek Online and go straight to Star Wars The Old Republic.
Sounds like your typical rpg but on a much broader scale. Alot of mmos don't get the rpg portion of mmos right but this is Bioware and they have an excellent team. I think this game will be very good and I can't wait to get my hands on it.
Developers Guide at Bioware for SW:TOR
1) Role
2) Playing
3)Game
4)Massivly
5)Muliplayer
6) Online
Actually, from all I've heard, it sounds more like
MCSSPG.... Massive Cutscene Singleplayer Game..or something like that. Im an old Bioware fan. Or more and old Black Isle Studio fan really. The things i loved about their early games dosnt really apply in NWN and Dragon Age. Fallout was really close to beeing a sandbox game, with the dialogue mostly beeing questgivers and traders. Baldurs Gate had incredible inverioments with vampires, asylums, insane wizards and characters with alot of flavours. Planescape Torment might have been one of the few games where i felt the story was fully as good as the best fantasy novels.
Im not sure i get why they have to force ppl through a story line in a mmo. The players themself should mostly make the story; in mmo`s its not really interesting when or how someone have played through a scripted storyline - what ppl talk about is when player x killed a hard boss for the first time, learned y skill-level or can craft x weapon and y armor. I honestly think spending to much time developing on a instanced singleplayer part of the game is a waste of time. Ppl - and prolly Bioware fans as well, will most likely click them self through it as fast as possible so they can get startet on the real game. Use the manus writers to tell realtime storys instead. Make some bounty hunter go crazy in the local auction house. Make the local Hutt place a bounty n a player. If the game world have a interesting planet in the farest corner of the galaxy, then let it be up to the player to decide when or if he want to flicker a spacecraft together and go there. Dont send him there as part of scripted questline.
Tldr; scripted singleplayer parts of mmo usualy ends up beeing a tutorial or a prologue to what ppl see as the real game. Hence its often more of a anoyance then a thrill to get thorugh it- because players just wants to hook up with the other players assap.
I love the look of the consular, but this is still not quite looking like an mmo to me.
In fact, these single player story arcs sound remarkably like why I didn't stay beyond the free trial for SWG. That long-arse arc meant that rarely did I run into other players and when I did, they were generally at some other stage in the arc.
So in the two week trial, I only managed to join a team once.
Too early to can my interest yet, but I'm also far from sold on it.
Effectively, The Old Republic is eight RPGs woven together so that when the stories take players through towns, they're in MMO environments. It forces people to go out in the world and see other people. Sure, they can plow through the single-player arcs, but they'd miss half the game.
The article fails to say whether the group arcs are also instanced. At the moment the game is sounding exactly like Guild Wars in terms of how much of it is online; just a bunch of town hubs. Bioware really needs to clear this issue up soon otherwise there's going to be a big disappointment near to or at release.
[...]
I'm beginning to think Bioware should rethink advertising this as an MMO, even ArenaNet stated that Guild Wars wasn't one.
I have no problem with that - if the use the same business model (Pay only content boxes), then it could be a great and huge game.
But i will not pay a monthl. sub for an 80% instanced game.
GW is not marked as an MMOPRG because its main focus is on competative combat in pvp - so i thing Bioware CAN use the MMOPRG, but better whould be some sort of "SDMORPG" (story driven multiplayer online RPG) or else ^^
Currently it looks like a Massively Singleplayer RPG.
My main problem is: What do we after we finished all the Quests and storys? (so after the first month for the core gamers)
How do they plan to add new (fully voiced over!) content for more than 100 hours every 30-60 days?
Yes maybe we will have raids and pvp, but currently i cant see that the spend a huge focus on that - so what will be left after we finished the primary storyline?
Sadly, I think these comment may summarize the game.
"Sure, they can plow through the single-player arcs, but they'd miss half the game."
and if they can... they will.
It may be too early for a prediction here - but based on what I am reading my prediction is for massive box sales and very poor player retention.
It seems the Devs are working very hard on writing an excellent story, but that is what single player RPGers want, stories have happy (and definite) endings.
Occasionally, I'd pick what I thought was a nice response and he'd spout off something I never would have chosen.
And combine it with the fact that skills and character abilities are connected to the story to discover that you could possibly ruin an entire characters progress (no reload last save, remember) because you read 'I'd love to help.' but your avatar spit out 'Go screw yourself!'
DOH ... so much for getting that awesome peice of loot.
But I guess in three weeks there will be game walkthroughs, including dialog choices, to ensure everyone gets the coolest junk.
I love the look of the consular, but this is still not quite looking like an mmo to me. In fact, these single player story arcs sound remarkably like why I didn't stay beyond the free trial for SWG. That long-arse arc meant that rarely did I run into other players and when I did, they were generally at some other stage in the arc. So in the two week trial, I only managed to join a team once. Too early to can my interest yet, but I'm also far from sold on it.
They've explicitly stated that after the initial quests (which in most MMOs don't involve grouping anyhow) that other people can join you on your story arc quests. So it should be just fine if they do it right (xp incentive for that guy to join you).
I don't relish this game on account of Bioware's (over) use of cutscenes either. They should seriously consider marketing their products as interactive stories with combat minigames. Dialogue choices are nice, but I do agree with Dana: they tend to only ever fall into one of two catagories: Say the thing most obviously there to propel the narrative forwards, or hold it up by saying something obnoxious. At their heart, there's not much actual game there. But who knows - maybe this time they've spun a multi-threaded tapestry of possible fates. I doubt it - that's hard. I've tried it, and its always tempting to just pick the player up by a skyhook at drop them back on the railroad tracks, lest you have too many avenues to manage. At first I was heartened by the fact that since it's Star Wars, at least there wouldn't be any dwarves. But knowing Bioware, they'll find a way to put them in. Expect at least three beer-guzzling bad-scottish-accent ewoks in every cantina.
Well, Bioware certainly is good at sometimes making dialogue choices that don't change what the next person is going to say (saves on voice dialogue). That said, they often make your choice matter. It can affect how other people view you in such. Certainly they've given examples where your choice can result in you killing someone and later someone coming to get revenge on you. Overall sounds like your choices WILL matter.
Then there's the whole Light/Dark thing which will certainly be a result of roleplaying choices and they've indicated that will also change how your story arc develops. Seems pretty good so far.
Originally posted by Mandalore How do they plan to add new (fully voiced over!) content for more than 100 hours every 30-60 days?
Far from impossible. Cartoons do the equivalent all the time (take into account that new content isn't going to be people constantly speaking, because it will also involve a lot of fighting and so forth, so the voice content isn't nearly as bad as you might think).
Though I don't think they've promised this (if so I have missed it). Anyhow, they have promised PvP and traditional end-game content (raids and such), so I don't see what is the problem. It is that sort of stuff people typically do at the end. Hopefully they'll add some fun randomness to such things so it feels new each time you do it rather than like doing the same thing over and over and over.
Originally posted by Gyrus Sadly, I think these comment may summarize the game. "Sure, they can plow through the single-player arcs, but they'd miss half the game." and if they can... they will. It may be too early for a prediction here - but based on what I am reading my prediction is for massive box sales and very poor player retention. It seems the Devs are working very hard on writing an excellent story, but that is what single player RPGers want, stories have happy (and definite) endings. MMO players want a world without limitations.
Some MMO players want that. There are a lot of MMOs that are successful and don't do that at all. WoW is one of them. A good number of MMO players like a detailed story, like having choices that matter, and like things that are Epic. I am one of them and I have plenty of friends that are the same.
In my experience though, players group up if grouping isn't painful or punished. So as long as they make grouping at least neutral in terms of the in-game rewards vs. costs, then people will do it (because doing things with friends is fun, so net positive gain). If they actually reward grouping in some way then it will be far from uncommon. Also, it was my impression that single-player arcs after the initial part of the game let you bring friends along.
MCSSPG.... Massive Cutscene Singleplayer Game..or something like that. Im an old Bioware fan. Or more and old Black Isle Studio fan really. The things i loved about their early games dosnt really apply in NWN and Dragon Age. Fallout was really close to beeing a sandbox game, with the dialogue mostly beeing questgivers and traders. Baldurs Gate had incredible inverioments with vampires, asylums, insane wizards and characters with alot of flavours. Planescape Torment might have been one of the few games where i felt the story was fully as good as the best fantasy novels. Im not sure i get why they have to force ppl through a story line in a mmo. The players themself should mostly make the story; in mmo`s its not really interesting when or how someone have played through a scripted storyline - what ppl talk about is when player x killed a hard boss for the first time, learned y skill-level or can craft x weapon and y armor. I honestly think spending to much time developing on a instanced singleplayer part of the game is a waste of time. Ppl - and prolly Bioware fans as well, will most likely click them self through it as fast as possible so they can get startet on the real game. Use the manus writers to tell realtime storys instead. Make some bounty hunter go crazy in the local auction house. Make the local Hutt place a bounty n a player. If the game world have a interesting planet in the farest corner of the galaxy, then let it be up to the player to decide when or if he want to flicker a spacecraft together and go there. Dont send him there as part of scripted questline. Tldr; scripted singleplayer parts of mmo usualy ends up beeing a tutorial or a prologue to what ppl see as the real game. Hence its often more of a anoyance then a thrill to get thorugh it- because players just wants to hook up with the other players assap.
Obviously from what they have said is that they want the story to be the main focus of the game. They are not looking to make another copy of every other MMO on the market. If they get enough content, which I doubt would ever be possible, it would be nice to see the jeorney be the best part of the game. Not the end game same ol same ol.
As far as your sandboxy ideas. It would be nice to see the worlds themselves be for all levels of game play. Not just level 1-10 go hear. Level 10-20 go hear till end game. If each planet has content for all levels, it would be closer to what you are looking for. The story would still be there for your character to develope and follow to the next quest hub. But each planet could be used for all levels of game play, including end game and PvP. That would give the solo casual his style to follow a linear game and the group style player content on each planet to use as they want.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
For the love of god I hope they dont kill us with the cut scenes and voice acting every 1 mins, I swera in Dragon age, im finding my self saying "ffs STFU ALREADY, I WANT TO PLAY". Bioware this sint a singleplayer game damit, where u can keep stopping players 24/7. Ive nerv really been a fan of voice acting or cutscenes in games, other than the occasional one for a special event or something. My god and they also give NPC's to aid you so u never have to group again. GJ Bioware, why didnt u just call this mass effect 3 single player game.
Yet another whiner!
Guess what? If you don't like BioWare games, you are not going to like this. Pretty simple really.
There are plenty of people out there who love BioWare's single-player games, me included.
I play single-player RPG's for the story, which is something BioWare does very well. To be honest, I don't get people that play an RPG and just want to fight, fight, fight all the time, I think their needs would be better suited in an FPS.
Up until now MMORPG's have lacked decent storytelling, BioWare is going to change that and I for one salute them for it.
HAL la LU ya! AmEN! can I get a Wha Wha! {does a little dance}. friendly sarcazim aside I agree 1000% They mite as well call MMORPG's- MMOG, cause they tend to lack the RP part and are becoming more diablo eskh. and ya the whole fight fight fight mantality I noticed kinda started up when WoW showed Up (key word noticed, and Im not flaming wow to be clear). I for one look forward to a game that people WANT to enjoy it for the content,storyline, adventure, and not in a rush to hit max level in a week or 2.
I'm not sure why so many folks are jumping to the conclusion that SWTOR is simply an extention of the Guild Wars style gameplay, or almost a single player MMO. I'd imagine I've read the same articles, and seen the same things that most have, but I dont think that there is anywhere enough information to draw any kind of conclusion.
In the past year, I think all we've seen is what Bioware wanted us to see, and that's what they feel sets SWTOR apart from games in the genre. Would you advertise your MMO as "It's the same as every other MMO out there, but just in the Star Wars universe?" Look, I've had questions, but Dana addressed it in his piece quote well:
Dana Massey:He was also tight lipped about the other traditional MMO content, save to say that they do intend to have crafting, raids, and all of the regular MMO hallmarks. This last year has been focused on atmosphere, the classes and the story. This is their differentiator. They assure is the traditional elements are there, and we take them at their word so far, but so far it seems the focus has been on what is different. Once they finish with that, expect to see the online aspects rolled out.
So in year one of hype, we've seen what Bioware knows looks different than other MMO's, why not sit back, relax, drink your favorite fermented beverage, and wait to see what Bioware chooses to show next? Why not see what the crafting, raids, and "regular MMO hallmarks" look like?
Good Preview and review Dana. Objective, while addressing concerns of the potential player base.
It will be interesting to see how a voiced protagonist affects immersion for me. It's not enough of an issue for me to write the game off though.
I am currently playing Dragon Age which of course is a single player game. Lots of cutscenes voice acting very good, companions are funnier than hell sometimes. I expect cutscenes etc in a single player game.
I am an ex-Swg player...from the pre-cu and nge era. I decided this time NOT to attempt to get in on a beta for this game coming out, as I am hoping to be surprised. Besides when you beta, and then play on release you pretty much know what its all about, nothing shiny and new like if you never betaed it.
Okay I'll get to my point here lol, I HOPE that the cutscenes don't interfere as much as they do in DA:O...but I make allowances for it there. Sometimes find it immersion breaking.
I would hope a massively multiplayer experience would be different from that of the single player experience.
But its okay, Bioware makes good games..and I most probably will follow thru and get this game on release, or pre-order maybe..dunno yet.
Thoroughly hooked on DA:O atm but will immediately put it down once Kotor releases hehe
Far too many conclusions being drawn from the preview.
Too many of you seem to forget about the Story element of a game, and the RPG aspect. Its good to see Bioware didn't forget about that very important aspect.
As well, theres a bit too much complaining going on about "lack of grouping." when i bet 3/4ths of you Solo'ed 1 to Max in your favorite MMO. As well, you probably didn't Read a lick of quest text except Go Kill X number of Y creatures and come back.
As well, featured in just about Every Bioware game out there, you can press the Escape key to ignore/fast forward dialogue, and I'm sure they'll add an option to ignore/block your character's voice if it bugs you that much.
Will there be grouping? Yes
Will there be "traditional MMO content"? Unfortunately Yes
Will there be a story? For the first time, YES!
And from the forums, it also appears there will be most likely minigames implemented. Quasar, Cards, etc.. in cantinas.
I really don't understand why people complain about "instanced content" then turn around and complain because they have to farm 20 leathers from some stupid bear where 30 others are Farming the same leathers for the same quest on a 15% drop rate. Good show.
I'm not sure why so many folks are jumping to the conclusion that SWTOR is simply an extention of the Guild Wars style gameplay, or almost a single player MMO. I'd imagine I've read the same articles, and seen the same things that most have, but I dont think that there is anywhere enough information to draw any kind of conclusion. In the past year, I think all we've seen is what Bioware wanted us to see, and that's what they feel sets SWTOR apart from games in the genre. Would you advertise your MMO as "It's the same as every other MMO out there, but just in the Star Wars universe?" Look, I've had questions, but Dana addressed it in his piece quote well:
Dana Massey:
He was also tight lipped about the other traditional MMO content, save to say that they do intend to have crafting, raids, and all of the regular MMO hallmarks. This last year has been focused on atmosphere, the classes and the story. This is their differentiator. They assure is the traditional elements are there, and we take them at their word so far, but so far it seems the focus has been on what is different. Once they finish with that, expect to see the online aspects rolled out.
So in year one of hype, we've seen what Bioware knows looks different than other MMO's, why not sit back, relax, drink your favorite fermented beverage, and wait to see what Bioware chooses to show next? Why not see what the crafting, raids, and "regular MMO hallmarks" look like?
Effectively, The Old Republic is eight RPGs woven together so that when the stories take players through towns, they're in MMO environments. It forces people to go out in the world and see other people. Sure, they can plow through the single-player arcs, but they'd miss half the game.
The article fails to say whether the group arcs are also instanced. At the moment the game is sounding exactly like Guild Wars in terms of how much of it is online; just a bunch of town hubs. Bioware really needs to clear this issue up soon otherwise there's going to be a big disappointment near to or at release.
[...]
I'm beginning to think Bioware should rethink advertising this as an MMO, even ArenaNet stated that Guild Wars wasn't one.
I have no problem with that - if the use the same business model (Pay only content boxes), then it could be a great and huge game.
But i will not pay a monthl. sub for an 80% instanced game.
GW is not marked as an MMOPRG because its main focus is on competative combat in pvp - so i thing Bioware CAN use the MMOPRG, but better whould be some sort of "SDMORPG" (story driven multiplayer online RPG) or else ^^
Currently it looks like a Massively Singleplayer RPG.
My main problem is: What do we after we finished all the Quests and storys? (so after the first month for the core gamers)
How do they plan to add new (fully voiced over!) content for more than 100 hours every 30-60 days?
Yes maybe we will have raids and pvp, but currently i cant see that the spend a huge focus on that - so what will be left after we finished the primary storyline?
That's not the reason why Guild Wars is not an mmorpg. Guild Wars had a huge emphasis on PVE play as well.
The reason GW is not an mmorpg is because all of the content is instanced. you never actually play with a massive amount of players in the same game world.
Originally posted by Gyrus Sadly, I think these comment may summarize the game. "Sure, they can plow through the single-player arcs, but they'd miss half the game." and if they can... they will. It may be too early for a prediction here - but based on what I am reading my prediction is for massive box sales and very poor player retention. It seems the Devs are working very hard on writing an excellent story, but that is what single player RPGers want, stories have happy (and definite) endings. MMO players want a world without limitations.
Some MMO players want that. There are a lot of MMOs that are successful and don't do that at all. WoW is one of them. A good number of MMO players like a detailed story, like having choices that matter, and like things that are Epic. I am one of them and I have plenty of friends that are the same.
In my experience though, players group up if grouping isn't painful or punished. So as long as they make grouping at least neutral in terms of the in-game rewards vs. costs, then people will do it (because doing things with friends is fun, so net positive gain). If they actually reward grouping in some way then it will be far from uncommon. Also, it was my impression that single-player arcs after the initial part of the game let you bring friends along.
Agreed. In my opinion, having the option to solo play in an MMO isn't the cause of a lack of grouping, its the fact that solo play options outweigh the attractions to group play that causes people to generally ignore grouping until it becomes a necessity (i.e. at "end game"). In the past, many MMO's haven't provided enough incentives to encourage people to group. Thus when someone considers grouping, they know full well that whilst grouping increases the possibility of more progression within the same time period, often that is hampered by the fact that you cannot find a group to where you want to go. So the player spends hours spamming chat for a group when they could have been doing single player content. Therefore, I too am hoping that group play will be encouraged in a way to make it enticing than in previous games, whilst ensuring that solo play is maintained as a viable option for those who want it.
On the subject of cut scenes, personally I think they add a nice touch to games. BUT, I feel that Bioware have to be careful not to over-use them in story telling. As some people pointed out, it can get very frustrating having to wade through countless cut scenes just to do anything and even MORE annoying if you cannot "escape" out of the cutscenes too. And being forced to watch a cutscene every few minutes will soon grow tiresome to the point whereby it breaks the fluidity of action.
In all honesty it sounds like a good Bioware singleplayer RPG with the multiplayer sort-of tacked on almost as an afterthought.
I don't see many players sticking around after they finished the storyline, maybe they might play the other classes if their storyline is different enough, but that's about it.
Also because all the content is voiced and part of the story i doubt there will be frequent updates to the game like other MMOs have, it's much easier to add quests to WoW or missions to EvE then new fully voiced stories to TOR.
I am aware of all of the concerns about the game. But even if all it offers is a great experience for a few months I will be happy to be fully immersed in a star wars universe again. Hopefully there is meat to the game that I can stick around for a long time.
Comments
I saw a nice preview on im guessing it was yesterdays episode of xplay as i watched it earlier today. It didn't leave me feeling very good about this game. It just seemed exactly like a single player game from what I saw. I love single player games, but I guess I just wish I could have seen some more team work with other people rather than this cast of npc characters that join up with you.
What MMO preview videos don't make it seem kinda single playerish, except when they are going over group-specific stuff?
I do agree I'd like to see some teamwork examples before everything is said and done.
"just a matter of figuring out what button to push when."
I think the author deserves the captain obvious award for the best answer to every game that has ever existed.
I don't relish this game on account of Bioware's (over) use of cutscenes either. They should seriously consider marketing their products as interactive stories with combat minigames.
Good, point, I just wish there was a name for interactive stories with combat minigames... oh wait a sec, I think there is! They're called "Role Playing Games".
This game is shaping up to look like a really good game. Even though I'm a far bigger Star Trek fan than a Star Wars fan, I may have to skip Star Trek Online and go straight to Star Wars The Old Republic.
Developers Guide at Bioware for SW:TOR
1) Role
2) Playing
3)Game
4)Massivly
5)Muliplayer
6) Online
Actually, from all I've heard, it sounds more like
1) Role
2) Game
3) Online
4)Playing
5)Muliplayer
6)Massivly
MCSSPG.... Massive Cutscene Singleplayer Game..or something like that. Im an old Bioware fan. Or more and old Black Isle Studio fan really. The things i loved about their early games dosnt really apply in NWN and Dragon Age. Fallout was really close to beeing a sandbox game, with the dialogue mostly beeing questgivers and traders. Baldurs Gate had incredible inverioments with vampires, asylums, insane wizards and characters with alot of flavours. Planescape Torment might have been one of the few games where i felt the story was fully as good as the best fantasy novels.
Im not sure i get why they have to force ppl through a story line in a mmo. The players themself should mostly make the story; in mmo`s its not really interesting when or how someone have played through a scripted storyline - what ppl talk about is when player x killed a hard boss for the first time, learned y skill-level or can craft x weapon and y armor. I honestly think spending to much time developing on a instanced singleplayer part of the game is a waste of time. Ppl - and prolly Bioware fans as well, will most likely click them self through it as fast as possible so they can get startet on the real game. Use the manus writers to tell realtime storys instead. Make some bounty hunter go crazy in the local auction house. Make the local Hutt place a bounty n a player. If the game world have a interesting planet in the farest corner of the galaxy, then let it be up to the player to decide when or if he want to flicker a spacecraft together and go there. Dont send him there as part of scripted questline.
Tldr; scripted singleplayer parts of mmo usualy ends up beeing a tutorial or a prologue to what ppl see as the real game. Hence its often more of a anoyance then a thrill to get thorugh it- because players just wants to hook up with the other players assap.
I love the look of the consular, but this is still not quite looking like an mmo to me.
In fact, these single player story arcs sound remarkably like why I didn't stay beyond the free trial for SWG. That long-arse arc meant that rarely did I run into other players and when I did, they were generally at some other stage in the arc.
So in the two week trial, I only managed to join a team once.
Too early to can my interest yet, but I'm also far from sold on it.
i dont care if i ever group with one single person in this game or that is all i do is group. i need star wars!!!! I need it now!!!!!
The article fails to say whether the group arcs are also instanced. At the moment the game is sounding exactly like Guild Wars in terms of how much of it is online; just a bunch of town hubs. Bioware really needs to clear this issue up soon otherwise there's going to be a big disappointment near to or at release.
[...]
I'm beginning to think Bioware should rethink advertising this as an MMO, even ArenaNet stated that Guild Wars wasn't one.
I have no problem with that - if the use the same business model (Pay only content boxes), then it could be a great and huge game.
But i will not pay a monthl. sub for an 80% instanced game.
GW is not marked as an MMOPRG because its main focus is on competative combat in pvp - so i thing Bioware CAN use the MMOPRG, but better whould be some sort of "SDMORPG" (story driven multiplayer online RPG) or else ^^
Currently it looks like a Massively Singleplayer RPG.
My main problem is: What do we after we finished all the Quests and storys? (so after the first month for the core gamers)
How do they plan to add new (fully voiced over!) content for more than 100 hours every 30-60 days?
Yes maybe we will have raids and pvp, but currently i cant see that the spend a huge focus on that - so what will be left after we finished the primary storyline?
Sadly, I think these comment may summarize the game.
"Sure, they can plow through the single-player arcs, but they'd miss half the game."
and if they can... they will.
It may be too early for a prediction here - but based on what I am reading my prediction is for massive box sales and very poor player retention.
It seems the Devs are working very hard on writing an excellent story, but that is what single player RPGers want, stories have happy (and definite) endings.
MMO players want a world without limitations.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Anyone else catch this:
Occasionally, I'd pick what I thought was a nice response and he'd spout off something I never would have chosen.
And combine it with the fact that skills and character abilities are connected to the story to discover that you could possibly ruin an entire characters progress (no reload last save, remember) because you read 'I'd love to help.' but your avatar spit out 'Go screw yourself!'
DOH ... so much for getting that awesome peice of loot.
But I guess in three weeks there will be game walkthroughs, including dialog choices, to ensure everyone gets the coolest junk.
They've explicitly stated that after the initial quests (which in most MMOs don't involve grouping anyhow) that other people can join you on your story arc quests. So it should be just fine if they do it right (xp incentive for that guy to join you).
Well, Bioware certainly is good at sometimes making dialogue choices that don't change what the next person is going to say (saves on voice dialogue). That said, they often make your choice matter. It can affect how other people view you in such. Certainly they've given examples where your choice can result in you killing someone and later someone coming to get revenge on you. Overall sounds like your choices WILL matter.
Then there's the whole Light/Dark thing which will certainly be a result of roleplaying choices and they've indicated that will also change how your story arc develops. Seems pretty good so far.
Far from impossible. Cartoons do the equivalent all the time (take into account that new content isn't going to be people constantly speaking, because it will also involve a lot of fighting and so forth, so the voice content isn't nearly as bad as you might think).
Though I don't think they've promised this (if so I have missed it). Anyhow, they have promised PvP and traditional end-game content (raids and such), so I don't see what is the problem. It is that sort of stuff people typically do at the end. Hopefully they'll add some fun randomness to such things so it feels new each time you do it rather than like doing the same thing over and over and over.
Some MMO players want that. There are a lot of MMOs that are successful and don't do that at all. WoW is one of them. A good number of MMO players like a detailed story, like having choices that matter, and like things that are Epic. I am one of them and I have plenty of friends that are the same.
In my experience though, players group up if grouping isn't painful or punished. So as long as they make grouping at least neutral in terms of the in-game rewards vs. costs, then people will do it (because doing things with friends is fun, so net positive gain). If they actually reward grouping in some way then it will be far from uncommon. Also, it was my impression that single-player arcs after the initial part of the game let you bring friends along.
Obviously from what they have said is that they want the story to be the main focus of the game. They are not looking to make another copy of every other MMO on the market. If they get enough content, which I doubt would ever be possible, it would be nice to see the jeorney be the best part of the game. Not the end game same ol same ol.
As far as your sandboxy ideas. It would be nice to see the worlds themselves be for all levels of game play. Not just level 1-10 go hear. Level 10-20 go hear till end game. If each planet has content for all levels, it would be closer to what you are looking for. The story would still be there for your character to develope and follow to the next quest hub. But each planet could be used for all levels of game play, including end game and PvP. That would give the solo casual his style to follow a linear game and the group style player content on each planet to use as they want.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Yet another whiner!
Guess what? If you don't like BioWare games, you are not going to like this. Pretty simple really.
There are plenty of people out there who love BioWare's single-player games, me included.
I play single-player RPG's for the story, which is something BioWare does very well. To be honest, I don't get people that play an RPG and just want to fight, fight, fight all the time, I think their needs would be better suited in an FPS.
Up until now MMORPG's have lacked decent storytelling, BioWare is going to change that and I for one salute them for it.
HAL la LU ya! AmEN! can I get a Wha Wha! {does a little dance}. friendly sarcazim aside I agree 1000% They mite as well call MMORPG's- MMOG, cause they tend to lack the RP part and are becoming more diablo eskh. and ya the whole fight fight fight mantality I noticed kinda started up when WoW showed Up (key word noticed, and Im not flaming wow to be clear). I for one look forward to a game that people WANT to enjoy it for the content,storyline, adventure, and not in a rush to hit max level in a week or 2.
I'm not sure why so many folks are jumping to the conclusion that SWTOR is simply an extention of the Guild Wars style gameplay, or almost a single player MMO. I'd imagine I've read the same articles, and seen the same things that most have, but I dont think that there is anywhere enough information to draw any kind of conclusion.
In the past year, I think all we've seen is what Bioware wanted us to see, and that's what they feel sets SWTOR apart from games in the genre. Would you advertise your MMO as "It's the same as every other MMO out there, but just in the Star Wars universe?" Look, I've had questions, but Dana addressed it in his piece quote well:
So in year one of hype, we've seen what Bioware knows looks different than other MMO's, why not sit back, relax, drink your favorite fermented beverage, and wait to see what Bioware chooses to show next? Why not see what the crafting, raids, and "regular MMO hallmarks" look like?
I am currently playing Dragon Age which of course is a single player game. Lots of cutscenes voice acting very good, companions are funnier than hell sometimes. I expect cutscenes etc in a single player game.
I am an ex-Swg player...from the pre-cu and nge era. I decided this time NOT to attempt to get in on a beta for this game coming out, as I am hoping to be surprised. Besides when you beta, and then play on release you pretty much know what its all about, nothing shiny and new like if you never betaed it.
Okay I'll get to my point here lol, I HOPE that the cutscenes don't interfere as much as they do in DA:O...but I make allowances for it there. Sometimes find it immersion breaking.
I would hope a massively multiplayer experience would be different from that of the single player experience.
But its okay, Bioware makes good games..and I most probably will follow thru and get this game on release, or pre-order maybe..dunno yet.
Thoroughly hooked on DA:O atm but will immediately put it down once Kotor releases hehe
Far too many conclusions being drawn from the preview.
Too many of you seem to forget about the Story element of a game, and the RPG aspect. Its good to see Bioware didn't forget about that very important aspect.
As well, theres a bit too much complaining going on about "lack of grouping." when i bet 3/4ths of you Solo'ed 1 to Max in your favorite MMO. As well, you probably didn't Read a lick of quest text except Go Kill X number of Y creatures and come back.
As well, featured in just about Every Bioware game out there, you can press the Escape key to ignore/fast forward dialogue, and I'm sure they'll add an option to ignore/block your character's voice if it bugs you that much.
Will there be grouping? Yes
Will there be "traditional MMO content"? Unfortunately Yes
Will there be a story? For the first time, YES!
And from the forums, it also appears there will be most likely minigames implemented. Quasar, Cards, etc.. in cantinas.
I really don't understand why people complain about "instanced content" then turn around and complain because they have to farm 20 leathers from some stupid bear where 30 others are Farming the same leathers for the same quest on a 15% drop rate. Good show.
So in year one of hype, we've seen what Bioware knows looks different than other MMO's, why not sit back, relax, drink your favorite fermented beverage, and wait to see what Bioware chooses to show next? Why not see what the crafting, raids, and "regular MMO hallmarks" look like?
/Grabs a Old Dads Rootbeer soda {mmm!}
The article fails to say whether the group arcs are also instanced. At the moment the game is sounding exactly like Guild Wars in terms of how much of it is online; just a bunch of town hubs. Bioware really needs to clear this issue up soon otherwise there's going to be a big disappointment near to or at release.
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I'm beginning to think Bioware should rethink advertising this as an MMO, even ArenaNet stated that Guild Wars wasn't one.
I have no problem with that - if the use the same business model (Pay only content boxes), then it could be a great and huge game.
But i will not pay a monthl. sub for an 80% instanced game.
GW is not marked as an MMOPRG because its main focus is on competative combat in pvp - so i thing Bioware CAN use the MMOPRG, but better whould be some sort of "SDMORPG" (story driven multiplayer online RPG) or else ^^
Currently it looks like a Massively Singleplayer RPG.
My main problem is: What do we after we finished all the Quests and storys? (so after the first month for the core gamers)
How do they plan to add new (fully voiced over!) content for more than 100 hours every 30-60 days?
Yes maybe we will have raids and pvp, but currently i cant see that the spend a huge focus on that - so what will be left after we finished the primary storyline?
That's not the reason why Guild Wars is not an mmorpg. Guild Wars had a huge emphasis on PVE play as well.
The reason GW is not an mmorpg is because all of the content is instanced. you never actually play with a massive amount of players in the same game world.
Some MMO players want that. There are a lot of MMOs that are successful and don't do that at all. WoW is one of them. A good number of MMO players like a detailed story, like having choices that matter, and like things that are Epic. I am one of them and I have plenty of friends that are the same.
In my experience though, players group up if grouping isn't painful or punished. So as long as they make grouping at least neutral in terms of the in-game rewards vs. costs, then people will do it (because doing things with friends is fun, so net positive gain). If they actually reward grouping in some way then it will be far from uncommon. Also, it was my impression that single-player arcs after the initial part of the game let you bring friends along.
Agreed. In my opinion, having the option to solo play in an MMO isn't the cause of a lack of grouping, its the fact that solo play options outweigh the attractions to group play that causes people to generally ignore grouping until it becomes a necessity (i.e. at "end game"). In the past, many MMO's haven't provided enough incentives to encourage people to group. Thus when someone considers grouping, they know full well that whilst grouping increases the possibility of more progression within the same time period, often that is hampered by the fact that you cannot find a group to where you want to go. So the player spends hours spamming chat for a group when they could have been doing single player content. Therefore, I too am hoping that group play will be encouraged in a way to make it enticing than in previous games, whilst ensuring that solo play is maintained as a viable option for those who want it.
On the subject of cut scenes, personally I think they add a nice touch to games. BUT, I feel that Bioware have to be careful not to over-use them in story telling. As some people pointed out, it can get very frustrating having to wade through countless cut scenes just to do anything and even MORE annoying if you cannot "escape" out of the cutscenes too. And being forced to watch a cutscene every few minutes will soon grow tiresome to the point whereby it breaks the fluidity of action.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
In all honesty it sounds like a good Bioware singleplayer RPG with the multiplayer sort-of tacked on almost as an afterthought.
I don't see many players sticking around after they finished the storyline, maybe they might play the other classes if their storyline is different enough, but that's about it.
Also because all the content is voiced and part of the story i doubt there will be frequent updates to the game like other MMOs have, it's much easier to add quests to WoW or missions to EvE then new fully voiced stories to TOR.
I am aware of all of the concerns about the game. But even if all it offers is a great experience for a few months I will be happy to be fully immersed in a star wars universe again. Hopefully there is meat to the game that I can stick around for a long time.