SOE doesnt feel the need to advertise and hire shills to hit the websites. EQ2 has a solid player base and add content on a regular basis. Its a very good game and as has been said there are many things to do ingame besides grind gear. Its always fun to watch the anti SOE folks post their thoughts. Just be sure to rely on your own opinion and not those of others because after all, there is a good sized percentage that will tell you WOW is a good game.
I'd honestly like for you to point out an SoE game that hasn't been butchered or left to wither into the dust. You may enjoy their games, which is fine, but saying SoE is a good or reputable company is where you're wrong.
I find EQ2 to be a wonderful game. I do not consider the release of an xpac on a yearly basis to be allowing the game to wither and die. The same holds true with the original EQ. With your logic EQ has been withering and dieing through the release of sixteen expansions. I realize that many are still butt hurt over the changes made to SWG, what was it, five years ago now? And how this translates into infantile hatred for all things SOE but the fact remains EQ and EQ2 are still going strong even with all the "withering and butchering" that has been inflicted upon these games.
EQ and EQ2 were both hit with the RMT system which I'm sure cost them subscriptions and prevented more from possibly coming in/back. Obviously the NGE/CU for SWG, but also the RMT system and the trading card money sink was just a double slap in the face, really. Planetside hasn't recieved a decent update in years, cheaters are common and takes days to ban if at all as well as a broken patch that caused a memory leak for hundreds of players which took 2 years to fix (and was working fine previous to the patch). Hello? Vanguard? Even the fans of the game admit there are less than 5 devs still working on the game with no real expansions or updates in sight.
Do I need to continue? Obviously all people who dislike SoE are butthurt solely for the SWG debacle.
honestly its because of SOE 100% and i'm not one of those guys all butt hurt about NGE either. for me its how they put RMT in all of their games. i won't play another game run by SOE or any other company that has RMT/item mall of any kind + monthly sub.
I played beta on EQ2, stuck with it for a bout 6months after launch. Since then I have come back a dozen times. I really like the game, but I could never convince my friends to play. Without a active community on the server I was on, it was just too difficult to accomplish anything significant, not much on the LFG front and the world is quite large. The WoW clone comments are stupid. Even if WoW is the new standard, that arguement doesn't even make sense. If a game came out before another game, its not a clone. Might as well say EQ1 was a WoW clone, or DAOC. The SOE hate I think is the main reason the game is so disliked. A lot of it is justified, but its become like religion to some. SOE is a game company, no more evil than any other large company. To ascribe to it some nefarious agenda or evil vision just make people come off looking like loonies. And asking on MMORPG.com forums will give you a larger dose of SOE hate than almost any site as this site also hosts a lot of SWG vets.
I agree that the wow clone comments are getting out of hand around here, but at the same time I think that soe has changed the game to be more like wow and abandoning their own design styles. Part of that is the reason the game seemed to flip flop between solo, group, solo, group so much.
As for the soe hate, I think you are looking at the effect and seeing that as the cause. The outlook many people have toward soe came as a result of soes actions spread across many of their games, not the cause of why they didn't play.
The end result is eq2 is the result of the same style of game management from soe that has made their hold on the market shrink for many years. The amount of people who were actually directly involved in many of the big examples of soe controversy doesn't compare to the vast increase in the overall mmo gaming population that has joined the market in the last many years and does not have any direct experience with those past actions.
In other words there are far more reasons this game doesn't get better press than former players with negative opinions of eq2.
SOE doesnt feel the need to advertise and hire shills to hit the websites. EQ2 has a solid player base and add content on a regular basis. Its a very good game and as has been said there are many things to do ingame besides grind gear. Its always fun to watch the anti SOE folks post their thoughts. Just be sure to rely on your own opinion and not those of others because after all, there is a good sized percentage that will tell you WOW is a good game.
I'd honestly like for you to point out an SoE game that hasn't been butchered or left to wither into the dust. You may enjoy their games, which is fine, but saying SoE is a good or reputable company is where you're wrong.
I find EQ2 to be a wonderful game. I do not consider the release of an xpac on a yearly basis to be allowing the game to wither and die. The same holds true with the original EQ. With your logic EQ has been withering and dieing through the release of sixteen expansions. I realize that many are still butt hurt over the changes made to SWG, what was it, five years ago now? And how this translates into infantile hatred for all things SOE but the fact remains EQ and EQ2 are still going strong even with all the "withering and butchering" that has been inflicted upon these games.
EQ and EQ2 were both hit with the RMT system which I'm sure cost them subscriptions and prevented more from possibly coming in/back. Obviously the NGE/CU for SWG, but also the RMT system and the trading card money sink was just a double slap in the face, really. Planetside hasn't recieved a decent update in years, cheaters are common and takes days to ban if at all as well as a broken patch that caused a memory leak for hundreds of players which took 2 years to fix (and was working fine previous to the patch). Hello? Vanguard? Even the fans of the game admit there are less than 5 devs still working on the game with no real expansions or updates in sight.
Do I need to continue? Obviously all people who dislike SoE are butthurt solely for the SWG debacle.
Hello? I thought EQ2 was the topic? Yes you can find many ways to continue your hatred for a game company if you choose to do so. Myself I would rather enjoy games for what they are instead of wasting my energy hating a company for transgressions you seem to take personal. As for RMT in EQ2 I have never used it and have seen no impact on the game for choosing not to. I belong to a good sized guild and I know of one guy who did buy something for his house. His RMT furniture in no way destroyed my enjoyment of the game. Carrying a hatred for something as unimportant as a game company says much more about those who do than about the object of their hatred. How long is long enough?
Originally posted by Lansid My personal reasons are because I got it at release and: Mobs were locked when attacked, but resource nodes were not... which led to a lot of resource ganking. When you obtained aggro, you could not outrun them. I believe this was for an anti-kiting mechanism... but I don't see how gaining aggro should make you run "slower". Trade skills could one shot kill you. If you're making a bow, it should not have the same risks as making TNT. Most of all was that one dev. in EQ2 constantly shouting "THAT IS BY DESIGN" and telling everyone to basically shut up and enjoy their game or gtfo. So I happily did before my first month was up, along with many others, and I can't say I ever had a desire to look back and wonder "Wow... what am I missing?" Hopefully the game has evolved as well as the team that develops it so people can enjoy it... but it was a pretty negative experience for me and even if it was shouted from the heavens that it was the best MMO ever it'd probably fall on many deaf ears.
The irony is that the 'restrictions' such as Agro or Battle/Combat movement was installed specifically to address kiting, along with Chaining the MOBs (also to address Trains). This was one of the things that completely irked me about the game. Yes, I was a Druid in EQ and did a lot of kiting, much to the chagrin of other players.
SOE has made a lot of changes that have improved the game, however the Movement is still a thorn in my side. The movement in general just has a very unnatural feel to it. EQII over all is a great MMO, sure its not going to please everyone and it shouldn't have to. I'd say EQII is the last of the true MMORPG's, without a doubt.
The beginning was rocky, but again a lot of what made the game annoying was all the Anti-EQ restrictions that people loathed in EQ. I can understand them designing the game to address the issues that plagued EQ, however now after 5 years SOE has readjusted if not removed a lot of those 'restrictions'.
The early crafting system was laborious and tedious, but its much improved now. At the moment I'm playing the Will of A Tyrant 20 day trail and its great being back in Norrath after a years absence. Granted my computer is struggling, but I plan on getting a new Rig and hopefully with the new GPU changes it will finally run a lot better.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
SOE doesnt feel the need to advertise and hire shills to hit the websites. EQ2 has a solid player base and add content on a regular basis. Its a very good game and as has been said there are many things to do ingame besides grind gear. Its always fun to watch the anti SOE folks post their thoughts. Just be sure to rely on your own opinion and not those of others because after all, there is a good sized percentage that will tell you WOW is a good game.
I'd honestly like for you to point out an SoE game that hasn't been butchered or left to wither into the dust. You may enjoy their games, which is fine, but saying SoE is a good or reputable company is where you're wrong.
I find EQ2 to be a wonderful game. I do not consider the release of an xpac on a yearly basis to be allowing the game to wither and die. The same holds true with the original EQ. With your logic EQ has been withering and dieing through the release of sixteen expansions. I realize that many are still butt hurt over the changes made to SWG, what was it, five years ago now? And how this translates into infantile hatred for all things SOE but the fact remains EQ and EQ2 are still going strong even with all the "withering and butchering" that has been inflicted upon these games.
EQ and EQ2 were both hit with the RMT system which I'm sure cost them subscriptions and prevented more from possibly coming in/back. Obviously the NGE/CU for SWG, but also the RMT system and the trading card money sink was just a double slap in the face, really. Planetside hasn't recieved a decent update in years, cheaters are common and takes days to ban if at all as well as a broken patch that caused a memory leak for hundreds of players which took 2 years to fix (and was working fine previous to the patch). Hello? Vanguard? Even the fans of the game admit there are less than 5 devs still working on the game with no real expansions or updates in sight.
Do I need to continue? Obviously all people who dislike SoE are butthurt solely for the SWG debacle.
Hello? I thought EQ2 was the topic? Yes you can find many ways to continue your hatred for a game company if you choose to do so. Myself I would rather enjoy games for what they are instead of wasting my energy hating a company for transgressions you seem to take personal. As for RMT in EQ2 I have never used it and have seen no impact on the game for choosing not to. I belong to a good sized guild and I know of one guy who did buy something for his house. His RMT furniture in no way destroyed my enjoyment of the game. Carrying a hatred for something as unimportant as a game company says much more about those who do than about the object of their hatred. How long is long enough?
The topic was about EQII. Some of the responses were regarding SoE mentioning they are the reason the game doesn't recieve more press and is not in the lime-light. You came in here downing their reasoning as if it was invalid to not like a game simply because of the company running it. I've presented more than enough examples of their mis-management of their products and why the community is, as a majority, against SoE products.
I said it once, and I'll say it again. You can enjoy SoE games if you so choose to do so, but stop trying to invalidate someone's legitimate complaint aginst SoE.
Edit: I don't have a hatred for SoE, I just choose to not support their products with my money. I don't come on here spouting about how SoE is evil or Smedley needs to be fired, though if I did that would be my choice to do so.
Originally posted by Emloch I purchased in EQ2 several months after it launched (late '04 or '05 at somepoint). At that time, the graphics were top notch, if you had a rig which could support high settings. Fortunately, I did. This game was an incredible experience for me. I played it for about 3 years and I must say that my best experiences in all my years of MMOing were found with this game. As with all games in this genre, it had it's problems but they were easily overlooked with the amount of things this game did right. The amount of quests were unpresidented and the community was unparalleled. All in all, this MMO was the most enjoyable and engrossing one I've ever played. I thinks it was the strong community and the variety of interesting quests that did it for me. As with just about anything, it's all subjective. i suppose at that time, this game was just my "cup of tea". This game has seen it's years though, which will account for it's lack of exposure. I'd love to see EQ3 someday, but I won't hold my breath. If it ever sees the light of day, it won't be for quite some time.
In case you didn't know, Everquest Next is in the works. Very little as been said and there hasn't been any updates since Fan Fair.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
Originally posted by Asamof the WoW clone comments are fine since WoW is the new standard in the MMO world (whether you like it or not)before that generic mmos were EQ cloneslucky's comment was so absurd that i couldn't help but laugh (i still really hope he was joking)
What's even more amusing is that prior to WoW you seldom if ever heard the term Clone in reference to MMORPG's vs Another. For some reason the ideology now comes down to the implicit notion that WoW is somehow the measure of all MMORGP gaming.
I'm a fan of Blizzard products as I've played many of the RPGs. WoW is a fun game, however its sense of simplicity injected the MMO community with lazy gamers who seem more dependent on the Developers catering to their needs than adapting to and unitizing what the game(s) has to offer.
The Old Timers Guild Laid back, not so serious, no drama. All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
I purchased in EQ2 several months after it launched (late '04 or '05 at somepoint). At that time, the graphics were top notch, if you had a rig which could support high settings. Fortunately, I did. This game was an incredible experience for me. I played it for about 3 years and I must say that my best experiences in all my years of MMOing were found with this game.
As with all games in this genre, it had it's problems but they were easily overlooked with the amount of things this game did right. The amount of quests were unpresidented and the community was unparalleled. All in all, this MMO was the most enjoyable and engrossing one I've ever played. I thinks it was the strong community and the variety of interesting quests that did it for me. As with just about anything, it's all subjective. i suppose at that time, this game was just my "cup of tea".
This game has seen it's years though, which will account for it's lack of exposure. I'd love to see EQ3 someday, but I won't hold my breath. If it ever sees the light of day, it won't be for quite some time.
In case you didn't know, Everquest Next is in the works. Very little as been said and there hasn't been any updates since Fan Fair.
honestly its because of SOE 100% and i'm not one of those guys all butt hurt about NGE either. for me its how they put RMT in all of their games. i won't play another game run by SOE or any other company that has RMT/item mall of any kind + monthly sub.
Unfortunately as the current trend in the industry is strongly towards RMT you may have to find a new hobby in a not to far future.
I purchased in EQ2 several months after it launched (late '04 or '05 at somepoint). At that time, the graphics were top notch, if you had a rig which could support high settings. Fortunately, I did. This game was an incredible experience for me. I played it for about 3 years and I must say that my best experiences in all my years of MMOing were found with this game.
As with all games in this genre, it had it's problems but they were easily overlooked with the amount of things this game did right. The amount of quests were unpresidented and the community was unparalleled. All in all, this MMO was the most enjoyable and engrossing one I've ever played. I thinks it was the strong community and the variety of interesting quests that did it for me. As with just about anything, it's all subjective. i suppose at that time, this game was just my "cup of tea".
This game has seen it's years though, which will account for it's lack of exposure. I'd love to see EQ3 someday, but I won't hold my breath. If it ever sees the light of day, it won't be for quite some time.
In case you didn't know, Everquest Next is in the works. Very little as been said and there hasn't been any updates since Fan Fair.
I've only seen mention of EQ Next in passing from someone who saw a blurb about it in the history of everquest movie. Was there any real mention of soe working on this anywhere beside that?
I know that soe rushed Jeff Butler away from sigil and put him and a hand picked team on an undisclosed project, so it might be true. That is about the only thing I have seen to give any hint that this might be true.
the WoW clone comments are fine since WoW is the new standard in the MMO world (whether you like it or not)
before that generic mmos were EQ clones lucky's comment was so absurd that i couldn't help but laugh (i still really hope he was joking)
What's even more amusing is that prior to WoW you seldom if ever heard the term Clone in reference to MMORPG's vs Another. For some reason the ideology now comes down to the implicit notion that WoW is somehow the measure of all MMORGP gaming.
I'm a fan of Blizzard products as I've played many of the RPGs. WoW is a fun game, however its sense of simplicity injected the MMO community with lazy gamers who seem more dependent on the Developers catering to their needs than adapting to and unitizing what the game(s) has to offer.
The term "everquest clone" was very much alive and kicking prior to world of warcraft releasing. Just do a google search for "everquest clone" 2004including the quotes and see how many examples pop up.
Likewise the genre was already filled with plenty of lazy games who needed things handed to them.
Eq2 fails because it is led by someone who does not inspire greatness. John Smedly is a cancer on mmo's.
You, sir, are about 6 years too late for the SOE Hate Train. This rehashed complaint is getting REALLY old at this point. John Smedley is what he is, and EQ2 is what it is.
Eq2 fails because it is led by someone who does not inspire greatness. John Smedly is a cancer on mmo's.
When did EQ2 fail? It has never failed. SInce it's birth almost 6 years ago, it has had a very strong community base. Overall, it's been a very successful MMO.
Tons of wonderful content, a amazing game.. that has been pushed to the point where all sub 80 content is trivialized and simplified.. Soe's desire to push everyone to endgame ruined it for the "questers" out there by making it too easy.. Tons of "questers" left the game over this, the servers are barren except a few..
Eq2 fails because it is led by someone who does not inspire greatness. John Smedly is a cancer on mmo's.
When did EQ2 fail? It has never failed. SInce it's birth almost 6 years ago, it has had a very strong community base. Overall, it's been a very successful MMO.
When the game closed down about 1/3 of the servers a year after launch.
When the game closed down completely in Asia.
The game isn't a total failure, but is hasn't even lived up to the initial expectations of its release. More like a managed failure imo.
When the game closed down about 1/3 of the servers a year after launch. When the game closed down completely in Asia. The game isn't a total failure, but is hasn't even lived up to the initial expectations of its release. More like a managed failure imo.
Well EQ2 was way to hardcore on release and contained things like (a modified) corpse run, xp debt and so on and on this was most likely the last time a major title was released with similar hardcore features. Shortly after the release of EQ2 came WoW with a much less hardcore experience and we all know what the customers preferred.
SOE closed several servers and that was needed as the number of players could not support the number of servers. EQ2 is still the most hardcore major fantasy title on the market but of course only a shadow of what some people wants, and a lot of on release features of EQ2 have been modified or removed for better or worse.
SoE are in business to make money and you have to see their decisions in that light. There are lots of things I do not like in EQ2 but it is still a great game, I think that SoEs current marketing burst (by SoE standards) is a sign that they are starting to believe in their own product again. There are a lot of talk on the official forums about an influx of players and I see that myself in the level 1-9 chat on AB, often there are several true new players asking questions.
Is EQ2 perfect? Far from it but EQ2 is still the best fantasy MMO of the "classic" style on the market if you can accept some of the old fashioned features like zoning. Do not believe the SoE haters try it yourself, the free trial is good introduction to the game and do try another server than AB especially if you are totally new to the game as you will most likely get more help on any other server than AB
EQ2 closed servers, because people left the game for a large variety of reasons. I wouldn't say it was due to eq2 being anywhere remotely close to hardcore either. It was just ill conceived, filled with bad decisions and rushed to market before it was close to being ready. The games history has been plagued with a slew of bad management decisions that has kept the games potential from being realized. EQ2 still struggles with what type of game it wants to be, because soe keeps chasing the ever elusive potential customer instead of focusing on how to make the game great.
Wow stole away with the market, because it almost the polar opposite of eq2's release and it doesn't have the same management issues.
This game's engine still sucks. Thats the real problem with EQ 2 now. The game looks dated as hell and the models and armor looks like CRAP.
It's just one more reason why Blizzard is laughing their asses off now. They chose a 'cartoony' engine sure, but with their art style and level of artwork working smoothly with that engine WoW still looks cartoony, but it doesn't look bad.
Any game that builds on an engine that looks good in the moment, but doesn't plan for upgrades or doesn't allow for economic upgrades without a complete overhaul is doomed to eventually look really tacky. I've heard that if you tweak your settings quite a bit EQ2 can actually look amazing......I shouldn't have to force my hardware to make your game look better though, imo.
Why does EQ2 not get better press? Granted, with my Station access I have been playing for only about a month...
But here are some definate cool things--
1. Quests! They call it Everquest for a reason, man there are so many and some are pretty interesting 2. Lots of Character and racial types 3. Open PvP, a thing that many pine for 4. Very customizable character tree options, far more than other games 5. Crafting makes a big difference 6. The AA thing, is pretty cool 7. Complexity, this is a much more involved game than WoW 8. Committed Dev, keep adding xpaks etc 9. Many players online all the time What do you all think and have you tried it? I am pretty impressed so far.
Granted I agree with some of the positive things you list there, and granted that I do consider EQ2 a MMO which technically is well done and can be fun, there are few major issue that people at SOE keeps ignoring.
By the way I played EQ2 for 4 years, so I know the subject.
1) TOO EASY - LONGEVITY: The game is ultra easy (contrary to your point number 7). What SoE and other developers don't understand (Funcom & Mythic) is that "easy" is cool for a couple of months. Afterwards people start losing interests due to the lack of goals, which are pretty much achieved during this time.
This game lacks longevity, because everything is achieved so fast. WoW is the only easy game that can keep so many subs because it is the "entry" game in the world of MMORPG.
People who started with WoW wants to move to something more challenging, not to another similar game................after all WoW is still the best easy game out there by miles, so why play something else unless is a totally different sort of game?
This is the reason why DC Universe and The Agency will flop.....they will sell good at the beginning like AoC, but after a couple of months no one will play those games.
2) TOO MANY PLAY STYLES: Everquest tries to make everyone happy, casuals, hardcore, solo, groupers, kids, adult...............by doing so it lacks identity.
The game tries to make everyone happy, but the only thing it achieves is that it alienates everyone because it puts all the above categories against each other, each of them wanting more features that suits their play styles, and by SOE trying to make everyone happy the game suffer of lack of consistency, too many features that don't fit well with each other and which annoy in turn every player with different play styles.
Actually with Free Realms at least they chose a category of players.........kids from 6 to 12, which is a step forward toward this isssue.
It is a pity they started this new phylosophy by choosing the category who doesn't have a Credit Card...................and therefore cannot use the in game shop to buy stuff.
Bad business strategy, but at least it's a start.
3) CASH SHOPS: Sorry to bang on about this yet again (yes I know some like them), but serious RPG players (which are the ones who play the same MMORPG for years) do not like the fact people who has lots money to spend can just buy their own way to the top.
The other issue with this feature is that cash shops ruin the RPG feeling in the game.
RPG is about the journey, not the end game............the fun should be to build your character by playing it, not getting to 80 in a month by buying XP potions and Elite Equipment (I know this is not yet in the cash shop, but it will get there)
To be honest personally I don't even like shops selling fluff stuff, even fluff stuff needs to be a reward from your play experience.
SoE thinks the cash shops are profitable, which is kinda true because you basically squeeze more money from the few customers you have, but this is hardly a way to attract more customers.
4) SOE FLIP FLOPPING: SOE doesn't have a clear design for their games, they keep changing the focus of their games depending which side of the bed they wake up in the morning.
One day they focus on the solos, then the next expansion is for the raiders, one expansion is easy mode, the other is hardcore. By changing their focus so much they keep annoying everyone and they lose their credibility.
If a player has been screwed by SOE because they keep shifting the focus of the game towards another player category, that player (after investing months in building the avatar) won't come back to play EQ2 or any other SOE games, becase they fear to be screwed again.
And SOE did it already twice, with SWG and EQ2, so they have a bad track record.
For some fanboys and SOE rappresentatives, those issues are difficult to accept, they do not see those as issues, and that's why EQ2 will be considered a mediocre game which no one really care.
I do not care about fanboys trying to justify SOE yet again, the answer to your arguments is the question raised by this thread, if you were right, EQ2 would have been more popular.
People asking why EQ2 don't get more airwaves or why is not that popular, basically prove my point, no matter how much you want to defend the game and SoE.
If the game and SOE were so good, the game will have millions of subs, but it is painly obvious it doesn't and the population is going to get worse not any better.
For the next real MMO of SOE (I am not talking about crap like DCU or The Agency) they should take in consideration some of the issues I stated above (or just keep doing normal games like The Agency and DCU and GTFO the MMO market).
The only way I can play another SoE MMO is if it is EQ3 and it will be a real RPG focused game, not a WoW copycat, and most importantly they need to state from start which category of player they will focus on.
If I see any statement such as "Everyone can enjoy EQ3" (the most disturbing sentence anyone can say about a MMORPG), I won't even look at it.......................
For the next real MMO of SOE (I am not talking about crap like DCU or The Agency) they should take in consideration some of the issues I stated above (or just keep doing normal games like The Agency and DCU and GTFO the MMO market).
The only way I can play another SoE MMO is if it is EQ3 and it will be a real RPG focused game, not a WoW copycat, and most importantly they need to state from start which category of player they will focus on.
If I see any statement such as "Everyone can enjoy EQ3" (the most disturbing sentence anyone can say about a
Well that is a long list with things that you are unhappy with and many of them are true, but unfortunately there will most likely be no new games in the future that has the features you like. For whatever it is EQ2 is oldfashioned today, and it is ok to dislike it but to hope that any company would launch something that you talk above is just fantasy when there is ample evidence that it will not sell. EQ2 is the game for me I have not seen ANY newer game come even close to the PVE experience, the massive content, the possibilities with housing, appearence armor and so on. I have seen many posts explaining why EQ2 is horrible but I have seen few talking about what the alternative is, Vanguard is a good game and probably closest to EQ1 in feel and content, it is also even more old school and not really a game for the casual gamer.
why?very easy!often the press is supplied by indepedent .like if a game is avail at say wallmart or ebgame like world of warcraft it will be published often since its easy to get one try the same with eq2,first you need to go either buy a prepaid cridit card or(if your just plain dumb)use your personal credit card most press guru arent autorised to use company credit card to do a press thing on online avail only game like eq2 and they arent silly enough to use their personal credit card online to do a revew or a press thing lot of title are like that eve had to reprint some copy of their game for store like ebgame the fact is online only game will never fly as high as wow.you can get card for wow anywhere,you bump into them everywhere you go and that fact alone is what make wow popular sony decided to stop sending eq2 game to ebgame store hell time card havent been sent in decade so they lost a lot of client .some dont have the financial strengh to be at ebgame or wallmart or whatchemandcalit but game like eq2 isnt the case the only eq and eq2 you ll get at eb game are very old post expension that you get for free at sony site but i can say if they cleaned up their act took back all the old junk and putted the actual fresh expension of games like eqand eq2 in shelf of various national chain of their choosing they could have a fair press since now its just ignored or use fugly dated info some silly guy at sony said ebgame or store like that werent needed anymore ya right if it wasnt needed xbox wouldnt be at ebgame or such store, neither nintendo,or blizzard the reality is client in the gaming industry(where the money is)still buy mostly their fix from walmart ,ebgame,target and all the other even game like maplestory got their card avail at target and maybe walmart lol not a lot do transaction online.its a very small market so eq2 is avail only to a very small market,and thats why press often dont bother with it and eq2 or eq get weak press if any good at all often they just copy and paste every year and thats it
Box sales have little to do with revenue in this day and age. Not saying that companies still don't make money from box sales but it isn't the main source of income anymore. As a matter of fact it has been declining in the last few years www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11981111 (read article.) Digital download is the way to go now.
Now why don't they get more press? Well, the answer seems pretty simple to me, because SOE doesn't want to pay for more press. Maybe their marketing budget for EQ2 isn't as high as let’s say it is for Free Realm. I don't know but that would a good guess.
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I'd honestly like for you to point out an SoE game that hasn't been butchered or left to wither into the dust. You may enjoy their games, which is fine, but saying SoE is a good or reputable company is where you're wrong.
I find EQ2 to be a wonderful game. I do not consider the release of an xpac on a yearly basis to be allowing the game to wither and die. The same holds true with the original EQ. With your logic EQ has been withering and dieing through the release of sixteen expansions. I realize that many are still butt hurt over the changes made to SWG, what was it, five years ago now? And how this translates into infantile hatred for all things SOE but the fact remains EQ and EQ2 are still going strong even with all the "withering and butchering" that has been inflicted upon these games.
EQ and EQ2 were both hit with the RMT system which I'm sure cost them subscriptions and prevented more from possibly coming in/back. Obviously the NGE/CU for SWG, but also the RMT system and the trading card money sink was just a double slap in the face, really. Planetside hasn't recieved a decent update in years, cheaters are common and takes days to ban if at all as well as a broken patch that caused a memory leak for hundreds of players which took 2 years to fix (and was working fine previous to the patch). Hello? Vanguard? Even the fans of the game admit there are less than 5 devs still working on the game with no real expansions or updates in sight.
Do I need to continue? Obviously all people who dislike SoE are butthurt solely for the SWG debacle.
honestly its because of SOE 100% and i'm not one of those guys all butt hurt about NGE either. for me its how they put RMT in all of their games. i won't play another game run by SOE or any other company that has RMT/item mall of any kind + monthly sub.
I agree that the wow clone comments are getting out of hand around here, but at the same time I think that soe has changed the game to be more like wow and abandoning their own design styles. Part of that is the reason the game seemed to flip flop between solo, group, solo, group so much.
As for the soe hate, I think you are looking at the effect and seeing that as the cause. The outlook many people have toward soe came as a result of soes actions spread across many of their games, not the cause of why they didn't play.
The end result is eq2 is the result of the same style of game management from soe that has made their hold on the market shrink for many years. The amount of people who were actually directly involved in many of the big examples of soe controversy doesn't compare to the vast increase in the overall mmo gaming population that has joined the market in the last many years and does not have any direct experience with those past actions.
In other words there are far more reasons this game doesn't get better press than former players with negative opinions of eq2.
I'd honestly like for you to point out an SoE game that hasn't been butchered or left to wither into the dust. You may enjoy their games, which is fine, but saying SoE is a good or reputable company is where you're wrong.
I find EQ2 to be a wonderful game. I do not consider the release of an xpac on a yearly basis to be allowing the game to wither and die. The same holds true with the original EQ. With your logic EQ has been withering and dieing through the release of sixteen expansions. I realize that many are still butt hurt over the changes made to SWG, what was it, five years ago now? And how this translates into infantile hatred for all things SOE but the fact remains EQ and EQ2 are still going strong even with all the "withering and butchering" that has been inflicted upon these games.
EQ and EQ2 were both hit with the RMT system which I'm sure cost them subscriptions and prevented more from possibly coming in/back. Obviously the NGE/CU for SWG, but also the RMT system and the trading card money sink was just a double slap in the face, really. Planetside hasn't recieved a decent update in years, cheaters are common and takes days to ban if at all as well as a broken patch that caused a memory leak for hundreds of players which took 2 years to fix (and was working fine previous to the patch). Hello? Vanguard? Even the fans of the game admit there are less than 5 devs still working on the game with no real expansions or updates in sight.
Do I need to continue? Obviously all people who dislike SoE are butthurt solely for the SWG debacle.
Hello? I thought EQ2 was the topic? Yes you can find many ways to continue your hatred for a game company if you choose to do so. Myself I would rather enjoy games for what they are instead of wasting my energy hating a company for transgressions you seem to take personal. As for RMT in EQ2 I have never used it and have seen no impact on the game for choosing not to. I belong to a good sized guild and I know of one guy who did buy something for his house. His RMT furniture in no way destroyed my enjoyment of the game. Carrying a hatred for something as unimportant as a game company says much more about those who do than about the object of their hatred. How long is long enough?
The irony is that the 'restrictions' such as Agro or Battle/Combat movement was installed specifically to address kiting, along with Chaining the MOBs (also to address Trains). This was one of the things that completely irked me about the game. Yes, I was a Druid in EQ and did a lot of kiting, much to the chagrin of other players.
SOE has made a lot of changes that have improved the game, however the Movement is still a thorn in my side. The movement in general just has a very unnatural feel to it. EQII over all is a great MMO, sure its not going to please everyone and it shouldn't have to. I'd say EQII is the last of the true MMORPG's, without a doubt.
The beginning was rocky, but again a lot of what made the game annoying was all the Anti-EQ restrictions that people loathed in EQ. I can understand them designing the game to address the issues that plagued EQ, however now after 5 years SOE has readjusted if not removed a lot of those 'restrictions'.
The early crafting system was laborious and tedious, but its much improved now. At the moment I'm playing the Will of A Tyrant 20 day trail and its great being back in Norrath after a years absence. Granted my computer is struggling, but I plan on getting a new Rig and hopefully with the new GPU changes it will finally run a lot better.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
I'd honestly like for you to point out an SoE game that hasn't been butchered or left to wither into the dust. You may enjoy their games, which is fine, but saying SoE is a good or reputable company is where you're wrong.
I find EQ2 to be a wonderful game. I do not consider the release of an xpac on a yearly basis to be allowing the game to wither and die. The same holds true with the original EQ. With your logic EQ has been withering and dieing through the release of sixteen expansions. I realize that many are still butt hurt over the changes made to SWG, what was it, five years ago now? And how this translates into infantile hatred for all things SOE but the fact remains EQ and EQ2 are still going strong even with all the "withering and butchering" that has been inflicted upon these games.
EQ and EQ2 were both hit with the RMT system which I'm sure cost them subscriptions and prevented more from possibly coming in/back. Obviously the NGE/CU for SWG, but also the RMT system and the trading card money sink was just a double slap in the face, really. Planetside hasn't recieved a decent update in years, cheaters are common and takes days to ban if at all as well as a broken patch that caused a memory leak for hundreds of players which took 2 years to fix (and was working fine previous to the patch). Hello? Vanguard? Even the fans of the game admit there are less than 5 devs still working on the game with no real expansions or updates in sight.
Do I need to continue? Obviously all people who dislike SoE are butthurt solely for the SWG debacle.
Hello? I thought EQ2 was the topic? Yes you can find many ways to continue your hatred for a game company if you choose to do so. Myself I would rather enjoy games for what they are instead of wasting my energy hating a company for transgressions you seem to take personal. As for RMT in EQ2 I have never used it and have seen no impact on the game for choosing not to. I belong to a good sized guild and I know of one guy who did buy something for his house. His RMT furniture in no way destroyed my enjoyment of the game. Carrying a hatred for something as unimportant as a game company says much more about those who do than about the object of their hatred. How long is long enough?
The topic was about EQII. Some of the responses were regarding SoE mentioning they are the reason the game doesn't recieve more press and is not in the lime-light. You came in here downing their reasoning as if it was invalid to not like a game simply because of the company running it. I've presented more than enough examples of their mis-management of their products and why the community is, as a majority, against SoE products.
I said it once, and I'll say it again. You can enjoy SoE games if you so choose to do so, but stop trying to invalidate someone's legitimate complaint aginst SoE.
Edit: I don't have a hatred for SoE, I just choose to not support their products with my money. I don't come on here spouting about how SoE is evil or Smedley needs to be fired, though if I did that would be my choice to do so.
In case you didn't know, Everquest Next is in the works. Very little as been said and there hasn't been any updates since Fan Fair.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
What's even more amusing is that prior to WoW you seldom if ever heard the term Clone in reference to MMORPG's vs Another. For some reason the ideology now comes down to the implicit notion that WoW is somehow the measure of all MMORGP gaming.
I'm a fan of Blizzard products as I've played many of the RPGs. WoW is a fun game, however its sense of simplicity injected the MMO community with lazy gamers who seem more dependent on the Developers catering to their needs than adapting to and unitizing what the game(s) has to offer.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
In case you didn't know, Everquest Next is in the works. Very little as been said and there hasn't been any updates since Fan Fair.
Excellent! Thank you, very much, for the insight.
Unfortunately as the current trend in the industry is strongly towards RMT you may have to find a new hobby in a not to far future.
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
In case you didn't know, Everquest Next is in the works. Very little as been said and there hasn't been any updates since Fan Fair.
I've only seen mention of EQ Next in passing from someone who saw a blurb about it in the history of everquest movie. Was there any real mention of soe working on this anywhere beside that?
I know that soe rushed Jeff Butler away from sigil and put him and a hand picked team on an undisclosed project, so it might be true. That is about the only thing I have seen to give any hint that this might be true.
What's even more amusing is that prior to WoW you seldom if ever heard the term Clone in reference to MMORPG's vs Another. For some reason the ideology now comes down to the implicit notion that WoW is somehow the measure of all MMORGP gaming.
I'm a fan of Blizzard products as I've played many of the RPGs. WoW is a fun game, however its sense of simplicity injected the MMO community with lazy gamers who seem more dependent on the Developers catering to their needs than adapting to and unitizing what the game(s) has to offer.
The term "everquest clone" was very much alive and kicking prior to world of warcraft releasing. Just do a google search for "everquest clone" 2004 including the quotes and see how many examples pop up.
Likewise the genre was already filled with plenty of lazy games who needed things handed to them.
Eq2 fails because it is led by someone who does not inspire greatness. John Smedly is a cancer on mmo's.
You, sir, are about 6 years too late for the SOE Hate Train. This rehashed complaint is getting REALLY old at this point. John Smedley is what he is, and EQ2 is what it is.
When did EQ2 fail? It has never failed. SInce it's birth almost 6 years ago, it has had a very strong community base. Overall, it's been a very successful MMO.
The problem with EQ II is as follows..
Tons of wonderful content, a amazing game.. that has been pushed to the point where all sub 80 content is trivialized and simplified.. Soe's desire to push everyone to endgame ruined it for the "questers" out there by making it too easy.. Tons of "questers" left the game over this, the servers are barren except a few..
I LOVED EQII now it's a pos in my opinion..
When did EQ2 fail? It has never failed. SInce it's birth almost 6 years ago, it has had a very strong community base. Overall, it's been a very successful MMO.
When the game closed down about 1/3 of the servers a year after launch.
When the game closed down completely in Asia.
The game isn't a total failure, but is hasn't even lived up to the initial expectations of its release. More like a managed failure imo.
Well EQ2 was way to hardcore on release and contained things like (a modified) corpse run, xp debt and so on and on this was most likely the last time a major title was released with similar hardcore features. Shortly after the release of EQ2 came WoW with a much less hardcore experience and we all know what the customers preferred.
SOE closed several servers and that was needed as the number of players could not support the number of servers. EQ2 is still the most hardcore major fantasy title on the market but of course only a shadow of what some people wants, and a lot of on release features of EQ2 have been modified or removed for better or worse.
SoE are in business to make money and you have to see their decisions in that light. There are lots of things I do not like in EQ2 but it is still a great game, I think that SoEs current marketing burst (by SoE standards) is a sign that they are starting to believe in their own product again. There are a lot of talk on the official forums about an influx of players and I see that myself in the level 1-9 chat on AB, often there are several true new players asking questions.
Is EQ2 perfect? Far from it but EQ2 is still the best fantasy MMO of the "classic" style on the market if you can accept some of the old fashioned features like zoning. Do not believe the SoE haters try it yourself, the free trial is good introduction to the game and do try another server than AB especially if you are totally new to the game as you will most likely get more help on any other server than AB
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
EQ2 closed servers, because people left the game for a large variety of reasons. I wouldn't say it was due to eq2 being anywhere remotely close to hardcore either. It was just ill conceived, filled with bad decisions and rushed to market before it was close to being ready. The games history has been plagued with a slew of bad management decisions that has kept the games potential from being realized. EQ2 still struggles with what type of game it wants to be, because soe keeps chasing the ever elusive potential customer instead of focusing on how to make the game great.
Wow stole away with the market, because it almost the polar opposite of eq2's release and it doesn't have the same management issues.
This game's engine still sucks. Thats the real problem with EQ 2 now. The game looks dated as hell and the models and armor looks like CRAP.
It's just one more reason why Blizzard is laughing their asses off now. They chose a 'cartoony' engine sure, but with their art style and level of artwork working smoothly with that engine WoW still looks cartoony, but it doesn't look bad.
Any game that builds on an engine that looks good in the moment, but doesn't plan for upgrades or doesn't allow for economic upgrades without a complete overhaul is doomed to eventually look really tacky. I've heard that if you tweak your settings quite a bit EQ2 can actually look amazing......I shouldn't have to force my hardware to make your game look better though, imo.
Granted I agree with some of the positive things you list there, and granted that I do consider EQ2 a MMO which technically is well done and can be fun, there are few major issue that people at SOE keeps ignoring.
By the way I played EQ2 for 4 years, so I know the subject.
1) TOO EASY - LONGEVITY: The game is ultra easy (contrary to your point number 7). What SoE and other developers don't understand (Funcom & Mythic) is that "easy" is cool for a couple of months. Afterwards people start losing interests due to the lack of goals, which are pretty much achieved during this time.
This game lacks longevity, because everything is achieved so fast. WoW is the only easy game that can keep so many subs because it is the "entry" game in the world of MMORPG.
People who started with WoW wants to move to something more challenging, not to another similar game................after all WoW is still the best easy game out there by miles, so why play something else unless is a totally different sort of game?
This is the reason why DC Universe and The Agency will flop.....they will sell good at the beginning like AoC, but after a couple of months no one will play those games.
2) TOO MANY PLAY STYLES: Everquest tries to make everyone happy, casuals, hardcore, solo, groupers, kids, adult...............by doing so it lacks identity.
The game tries to make everyone happy, but the only thing it achieves is that it alienates everyone because it puts all the above categories against each other, each of them wanting more features that suits their play styles, and by SOE trying to make everyone happy the game suffer of lack of consistency, too many features that don't fit well with each other and which annoy in turn every player with different play styles.
Actually with Free Realms at least they chose a category of players.........kids from 6 to 12, which is a step forward toward this isssue.
It is a pity they started this new phylosophy by choosing the category who doesn't have a Credit Card...................and therefore cannot use the in game shop to buy stuff.
Bad business strategy, but at least it's a start.
3) CASH SHOPS: Sorry to bang on about this yet again (yes I know some like them), but serious RPG players (which are the ones who play the same MMORPG for years) do not like the fact people who has lots money to spend can just buy their own way to the top.
The other issue with this feature is that cash shops ruin the RPG feeling in the game.
RPG is about the journey, not the end game............the fun should be to build your character by playing it, not getting to 80 in a month by buying XP potions and Elite Equipment (I know this is not yet in the cash shop, but it will get there)
To be honest personally I don't even like shops selling fluff stuff, even fluff stuff needs to be a reward from your play experience.
SoE thinks the cash shops are profitable, which is kinda true because you basically squeeze more money from the few customers you have, but this is hardly a way to attract more customers.
4) SOE FLIP FLOPPING: SOE doesn't have a clear design for their games, they keep changing the focus of their games depending which side of the bed they wake up in the morning.
One day they focus on the solos, then the next expansion is for the raiders, one expansion is easy mode, the other is hardcore. By changing their focus so much they keep annoying everyone and they lose their credibility.
If a player has been screwed by SOE because they keep shifting the focus of the game towards another player category, that player (after investing months in building the avatar) won't come back to play EQ2 or any other SOE games, becase they fear to be screwed again.
And SOE did it already twice, with SWG and EQ2, so they have a bad track record.
For some fanboys and SOE rappresentatives, those issues are difficult to accept, they do not see those as issues, and that's why EQ2 will be considered a mediocre game which no one really care.
I do not care about fanboys trying to justify SOE yet again, the answer to your arguments is the question raised by this thread, if you were right, EQ2 would have been more popular.
People asking why EQ2 don't get more airwaves or why is not that popular, basically prove my point, no matter how much you want to defend the game and SoE.
If the game and SOE were so good, the game will have millions of subs, but it is painly obvious it doesn't and the population is going to get worse not any better.
For the next real MMO of SOE (I am not talking about crap like DCU or The Agency) they should take in consideration some of the issues I stated above (or just keep doing normal games like The Agency and DCU and GTFO the MMO market).
The only way I can play another SoE MMO is if it is EQ3 and it will be a real RPG focused game, not a WoW copycat, and most importantly they need to state from start which category of player they will focus on.
If I see any statement such as "Everyone can enjoy EQ3" (the most disturbing sentence anyone can say about a MMORPG), I won't even look at it.......................
Well that is a long list with things that you are unhappy with and many of them are true, but unfortunately there will most likely be no new games in the future that has the features you like. For whatever it is EQ2 is oldfashioned today, and it is ok to dislike it but to hope that any company would launch something that you talk above is just fantasy when there is ample evidence that it will not sell. EQ2 is the game for me I have not seen ANY newer game come even close to the PVE experience, the massive content, the possibilities with housing, appearence armor and so on. I have seen many posts explaining why EQ2 is horrible but I have seen few talking about what the alternative is, Vanguard is a good game and probably closest to EQ1 in feel and content, it is also even more old school and not really a game for the casual gamer.
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
why?very easy!often the press is supplied by indepedent .like if a game is avail at say wallmart or ebgame like world of warcraft
it will be published often since its easy to get one
try the same with eq2,first you need to go either buy a prepaid cridit card or(if your just plain dumb)use your personal credit card
most press guru arent autorised to use company credit card to do a press thing on online avail only game like eq2
and they arent silly enough to use their personal credit card online to do a revew or a press thing
lot of title are like that eve had to reprint some copy of their game for store like ebgame
the fact is online only game will never fly as high as wow.you can get card for wow anywhere,you bump into them everywhere you go
and that fact alone is what make wow popular
sony decided to stop sending eq2 game to ebgame store hell time card havent been sent in decade
so they lost a lot of client .some dont have the financial strengh to be at ebgame or wallmart or whatchemandcalit
but game like eq2 isnt the case
the only eq and eq2 you ll get at eb game are very old post expension that you get for free at sony site
but i can say if they cleaned up their act took back all the old junk and putted the actual fresh expension of games like eqand eq2 in shelf
of various national chain of their choosing they could have a fair press since now its just ignored or use fugly dated info
some silly guy at sony said ebgame or store like that werent needed anymore
ya right if it wasnt needed xbox wouldnt be at ebgame or such store, neither nintendo,or blizzard
the reality is client in the gaming industry(where the money is)still buy mostly their fix from walmart ,ebgame,target and all the other
even game like maplestory got their card avail at target and maybe walmart lol
not a lot do transaction online.its a very small market
so eq2 is avail only to a very small market,and thats why press often dont bother with it and eq2 or eq get weak press if any good at all
often they just copy and paste every year and thats it
Box sales have little to do with revenue in this day and age. Not saying that companies still don't make money from box sales but it isn't the main source of income anymore. As a matter of fact it has been declining in the last few years www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11981111 (read article.) Digital download is the way to go now.
Now why don't they get more press? Well, the answer seems pretty simple to me, because SOE doesn't want to pay for more press. Maybe their marketing budget for EQ2 isn't as high as let’s say it is for Free Realm. I don't know but that would a good guess.