People who play high-rated arena do it for the sake of competition instead of gear, since the highest useful arena piece is the T2 weapon, which needs only 2200 rating.
People who do hardmodes also do them for the sake of difficulty, because the difference between 25man gear and 25man hard gear is insignificant and would not hinder progression to next raid in any way.
Nahh its mostly about gear. as an arena player gear is first then once you have all of your stuff you could go for achievements/titles.
I wonder how many people would arena on normal WoW servers if you couldn't get gear from it.
My guess would be none.
Considering that arena gear is only really good for arenas, I would say mostly the same amount of people. Arena gear is not that great for non-PvP activities so unless you are heavily into PvP, most players will not bother with it. If you are serious about arenas, you are not doing it to get PvE gear.
People who play high-rated arena do it for the sake of competition instead of gear, since the highest useful arena piece is the T2 weapon, which needs only 2200 rating.
People who do hardmodes also do them for the sake of difficulty, because the difference between 25man gear and 25man hard gear is insignificant and would not hinder progression to next raid in any way.
Nahh its mostly about gear. as an arena player gear is first then once you have all of your stuff you could go for achievements/titles.
I wonder how many people would arena on normal WoW servers if you couldn't get gear from it.
My guess would be none.
Considering that arena gear is only really good for arenas, I would say mostly the same amount of people. Arena gear is not that great for non-PvP activities so unless you are heavily into PvP, most players will not bother with it. If you are serious about arenas, you are not doing it to get PvE gear.
I never said arena players farmed for pve gear.
If they like arena they queue for them for pvp gear. That's the motivation.
I will say this, the achievement system gives the really good pvpers something to work toward after they get gear but most don't really care dude.
Imagine if achievements were the only reward of running arena and all the pvp gear would be tossed in BGs again.
What would happen? My guess would be that most would just farm BGs.
Been playing World of Warcraft for a couple years since they merged the Classic Servers on DAoC.
Over the last 3-4 months, I have not done a raid or instance encounter that had any kind of upgrade for my Druid in WoW. ToC 10/25 Heroic doesn't interest me since my guild is currently only up to Freya on the Ulduar Hardmodes. We are all older, less adept gamers, who miss the younger years when we could pickup any encounter in one try. We hoot and holler each time we defeat a new hardmode, even though we are using gear from regular ToC 10/25 which is arguably easier to obtain then Ulduar Hardmodes. Why are we spending thousands of gold on repair bills, and hundreds of hours on content that yields no gear rewards? For the accomplishment. For the enjoyment of the encounter. For the stimulation and how your personal stresses are forgotten for a time while your full attention is drawn to the encounter.
We aren't the only guild like this. Though I am probably the only one from my guild who ever reads game forums, outside of Warcraft related websites.
If Warcraft is successful, its not because of the gear grind. Its because of the gameplay. Its a fun game to play.
Well said I think. I do not play WoW anymore, but when I did it was a generally fun game. I did a bit of it all, PvP, Raiding. Crafting, ect. and quit when I felt i had achieved all I wanted out of that game. Never did I feel like I had to gear grind, the game is what you make of it and the people you play with. Just my 2cp
WoW is just a Diablo mmo. Run the same places over and over again for loot. Thats its essence, confirmed by Blizzard at some point. The Diablo item-frenzy was the big inspiration for WoW.Now, I dont know if thats a good or bad thing, but it does get boring. At least it did for me, which is why Im not playing anymore.
Been playing World of Warcraft for a couple years since they merged the Classic Servers on DAoC.
Over the last 3-4 months, I have not done a raid or instance encounter that had any kind of upgrade for my Druid in WoW. ToC 10/25 Heroic doesn't interest me since my guild is currently only up to Freya on the Ulduar Hardmodes. We are all older, less adept gamers, who miss the younger years when we could pickup any encounter in one try. We hoot and holler each time we defeat a new hardmode, even though we are using gear from regular ToC 10/25 which is arguably easier to obtain then Ulduar Hardmodes. Why are we spending thousands of gold on repair bills, and hundreds of hours on content that yields no gear rewards? For the accomplishment. For the enjoyment of the encounter. For the stimulation and how your personal stresses are forgotten for a time while your full attention is drawn to the encounter.
We aren't the only guild like this. Though I am probably the only one from my guild who ever reads game forums, outside of Warcraft related websites.
If Warcraft is successful, its not because of the gear grind. Its because of the gameplay. Its a fun game to play.
----------------------------------------------------------- Well said I think. I do not play WoW anymore, but when I did it was a generally fun game. I did a bit of it all, PvP, Raiding. Crafting, ect. and quit when I felt i had achieved all I wanted out of that game. Never did I feel like I had to gear grind, the game is what you make of it and the people you play with. Just my 2cp
You hear that Metalhead?
"WOW is a fun game to play". Here is how I play at the moment. ....Started naked on a new PvP server.
Just lvl'd to 18.
Had my first blue Mace in the DM.
All crafted mail greens.
Level 125 in Blacksmithing. ; 145 in fishing etc....62 Gold.
Getting fuilthy rich with crafting the silver Rod enchanters need (8 gold a piece) and selling armor/weapons greens at 3G
Did a few BG's and owned the place.
SHUT down Experience now and stop leveling at lvl 19.
Will do DM, SFK a few more times and do the quests I like to do. Always in challenge mode (3 to 4 levels higher - die....).
When done and had enough fun in the dungeons at that level
Put up Experience again and level until 20 through the BG's.
Take the BG's awards all the way in Ashenvale ... and continue my journey through Azeroth a last time before Cata hits.
----> Who needs T10? ..... btw I never had a full set of the latest gear (as 99% of WOW players).
Oh yeah, ... once a week I join my friends and find my main for that casual Raid and do ONE heroic a day with it.
And .... Have fun mining those space mines in that game without gravity, landscape, feet .... I am off with my crafted Helicopter.
))
Ahhh Zorn, For every player like you or the person you quoted are a hundred players that do nothing but wait for their lock out timers to expire so they could continue farming gear.
Like I said the wow players on this site are the minority and don't reflect how the player base really feels about WoW.
Whats the main goal of these players? character progression through itemization.
You know I'm right.
I will give you credit for doing something out of the ordinary but its not something the majority of your player base cares for.
OH and I never said Item farming wasn't fun for certain people.
People who play high-rated arena do it for the sake of competition instead of gear, since the highest useful arena piece is the T2 weapon, which needs only 2200 rating.
People who do hardmodes also do them for the sake of difficulty, because the difference between 25man gear and 25man hard gear is insignificant and would not hinder progression to next raid in any way.
Nahh its mostly about gear. as an arena player gear is first then once you have all of your stuff you could go for achievements/titles.
I wonder how many people would arena on normal WoW servers if you couldn't get gear from it.
My guess would be none.
Considering that arena gear is only really good for arenas, I would say mostly the same amount of people. Arena gear is not that great for non-PvP activities so unless you are heavily into PvP, most players will not bother with it. If you are serious about arenas, you are not doing it to get PvE gear.
I never said arena players farmed for pve gear.
If they like arena they queue for them for pvp gear. That's the motivation.
I will say this, the achievement system gives the really good pvpers something to work toward after they get gear but most don't really care dude.
Imagine if achievements were the only reward of running arena and all the pvp gear would be tossed in BGs again.
What would happen? My guess would be that most would just farm BGs.
You seem to dwell under the illusion that arena players only want the shiny gear so they can show it off. PvP gear is only that good in PvP (Arena and BGs). For raiding purposes PvP gear is generally considered sub-par. So the only people who would appreciate good arena gear would be other arena players.
Good PvP gear is needed to make you competive in arenas but is not that hard to acquire. Once you get into the higher competive brackets everyone will have it. So the thing that those players really care about is standing and ratings (ie same as every other sport).
If all PvP gear was put into BGs, the PvPers would get the gear and then compete in the arenas.
You seem to have this image of a WoW player who will go to great lenghts to get gear that is not really going to impress anyone and whose only purpose is to continue doing the activity that got you the gear in the first place.
When WotLK was still new, I could see people farming PvP gear to supplement their PvE gear but that has become obsolete long ago.
Originally posted by metalhead980 Like I said the wow players on this site are the minority and don't reflect how the player base really feels about WoW. Whats the main goal of these players? character progression through itemization.
You keep saying that as if it is going to make it true.
From my experience the WoW players posting here are a much better representation of the general WoW playerbase than those who post on the official WoW forums. There is a massive disconnect between the public image of WoW and how the 'normal' players play the game.
People who play high-rated arena do it for the sake of competition instead of gear, since the highest useful arena piece is the T2 weapon, which needs only 2200 rating.
People who do hardmodes also do them for the sake of difficulty, because the difference between 25man gear and 25man hard gear is insignificant and would not hinder progression to next raid in any way.
Nahh its mostly about gear. as an arena player gear is first then once you have all of your stuff you could go for achievements/titles.
I wonder how many people would arena on normal WoW servers if you couldn't get gear from it.
My guess would be none.
Considering that arena gear is only really good for arenas, I would say mostly the same amount of people. Arena gear is not that great for non-PvP activities so unless you are heavily into PvP, most players will not bother with it. If you are serious about arenas, you are not doing it to get PvE gear.
I never said arena players farmed for pve gear.
If they like arena they queue for them for pvp gear. That's the motivation.
I will say this, the achievement system gives the really good pvpers something to work toward after they get gear but most don't really care dude.
Imagine if achievements were the only reward of running arena and all the pvp gear would be tossed in BGs again.
What would happen? My guess would be that most would just farm BGs.
You seem to dwell under the illusion that arena players only want the shiny gear so they can show it off. PvP gear is only that good in PvP (Arena and BGs). For raiding purposes PvP gear is generally considered sub-par. So the only people who would appreciate good arena gear would be other arena players.
Good PvP gear is needed to make you competive in arenas but is not that hard to acquire. Once you get into the higher competive brackets everyone will have it. So the thing that those players really care about is standing and ratings (ie same as every other sport).
If all PvP gear was put into BGs, the PvPers would get the gear and then compete in the arenas.
You seem to have this image of a WoW player who will go to great lenghts to get gear that is not really going to impress anyone and whose only purpose is to continue doing the activity that got you the gear in the first place.
When WotLK was still new, I could see people farming PvP gear to supplement their PvE gear but that has become obsolete long ago.
Are you not reading my posts? I said nothing of PVPers farming for pve gear.
Actually I was completely speaking of pver's and pve gear. You know staying on topic and speaking of the pve armor the OP linked.
PVPers do farm for gear, its the motivation behind doing arenas. once you get this gear a whole mess of arena players dont care anymore. Only the really good ones go for the achievements/titles.
But this isn't what the topic is about I speaking only of pve armor and how people need to upgrade to a new set very quickly.
I dont even know how we got into the pvp discussion to be honest.
Originally posted by metalhead980 Like I said the wow players on this site are the minority and don't reflect how the player base really feels about WoW. Whats the main goal of these players? character progression through itemization.
You keep saying that as if it is going to make it true.
From my experience the WoW players posting here are a much better representation of the general WoW playerbase than those who post on the official WoW forums. There is a massive disconnect between the public image of WoW and how the 'normal' players play the game.
The forum community of WoW is very small compared to the games overall numbers.
And no Mmorpg.com with its 100+ wow fans don't represent the wow community more than the hundreds of thousands on its official forum. hardly anyone knows what this site even is in WoW.
I understand how this could bother you though, discussing a topic in a game that the community doesnt even consider viable in anyway.
It's the same with Eve noone gives a shit about this site and most people don't care what the official forum goers say. THe opinion of the vocal minority mean nothing in individual games and even less in the grand sceme of things in the entire genre.
Seriously this site is pro sandbox LOL! it means nothing and is in no way a representation of anything.
I play both. So I will Hijack this thread because I am better then all of you.
In my Domi if I have problems with a certain type of other ship, instead of guns I put neuts mixed with nos = Surprise. Can't do that in WOW, by me regemming I will probably piss some clowns off at elitistjerks.com and the stats will make some type of difference but not what would result in a complete change of gameplay.
Now before I get hit by all your WOWers out there I will say one thing, it takes forever to pvp in eve and damn it they really have to speed the process up and although sleepers are a bit of a challenge, I wonder just how much more I can take looking at the vast emptiness of dark space. There are days I like it and there are days I don't
On topic, once you have a force recon in eve, I kid you not you have reached the end of the game. Stealth gank ships are the end, because now you can wait for the pvp to come to you on certain asteroid belts. They all see you in local but if they don't see you warp in then bingo you have a chance for some epic ganks. Yeah yeah you can say end game is a titan or your own outpost but pvp endgame is that!!!
Wow is a gear grind always has been always will be. Play all day play all night burning the candle on both ends to get new gear run instance every week to get purple items. Wait for expac run this shit again and again. There are a few that have there senses but a majority (wow forums) would rather raid until 4 in the morning then eat. I don't need stats to prove this I just know.
That's my pros cons and rants all in one, concise thought need not apply, I can blurt what I want!
I never played eve nor ddo, Im playing lotro and I never felt the need to block anyone yet. I found that what I always wanted in wow was not gear, but to look heroic. in lotro, i can customize my appearance and look semi-heroic from the start. Playing this way, I find gear upgrades meaningless.
Besides, I dare you to stay angry at a hobbit. I double dare you =P
That is something i really enjoyed about Everquest 2. You had your gear slots, and your appearance slots. It really made people look unique.
If Warcraft added a feature like this it would unhinge the pvp community. A shame really, cause it gives people another option to express themselves creatively.
Nothing excites jaded Grandmasters more than a theoretical novelty
I never played eve nor ddo, Im playing lotro and I never felt the need to block anyone yet. I found that what I always wanted in wow was not gear, but to look heroic. in lotro, i can customize my appearance and look semi-heroic from the start. Playing this way, I find gear upgrades meaningless.
Besides, I dare you to stay angry at a hobbit. I double dare you =P
That is something i really enjoyed about Everquest 2. You had your gear slots, and your appearance slots. It really made people look unique.
If Warcraft added a feature like this it would unhinge the pvp community. A shame really, cause it gives people another option to express themselves creatively.
Me and WoW guildmates used to talk about the possibility and the end was always a "will never happen". Why? because the WoW community revolves around two concepts: Envy and greed. Envy the items on these people, and do whatever you can to get them. They want you too oogle at other people's shinies so you covet them.
From what I skimmed through, Metalhead you cannot appoint yourself as a spokes person for all wow players what you say is what you think but for me as a player and as others have posted... your wrong. Its like me saying that the majority of EvE players just play to mine rocks all day and get ISK that's all they want to do, and that's all EvE is, a big ISK grind, grind ISK get a ship, grind more get a bigger ship etc. I am sure you would disagree but I am right cus I say I am.
People who play high-rated arena do it for the sake of competition instead of gear, since the highest useful arena piece is the T2 weapon, which needs only 2200 rating.
People who do hardmodes also do them for the sake of difficulty, because the difference between 25man gear and 25man hard gear is insignificant and would not hinder progression to next raid in any way.
Nahh its mostly about gear. as an arena player gear is first then once you have all of your stuff you could go for achievements/titles.
I wonder how many people would arena on normal WoW servers if you couldn't get gear from it.
My guess would be none.
Considering that arena gear is only really good for arenas, I would say mostly the same amount of people. Arena gear is not that great for non-PvP activities so unless you are heavily into PvP, most players will not bother with it. If you are serious about arenas, you are not doing it to get PvE gear.
I never said arena players farmed for pve gear.
If they like arena they queue for them for pvp gear. That's the motivation.
I will say this, the achievement system gives the really good pvpers something to work toward after they get gear but most don't really care dude.
Imagine if achievements were the only reward of running arena and all the pvp gear would be tossed in BGs again.
What would happen? My guess would be that most would just farm BGs.
You seem to dwell under the illusion that arena players only want the shiny gear so they can show it off. PvP gear is only that good in PvP (Arena and BGs). For raiding purposes PvP gear is generally considered sub-par. So the only people who would appreciate good arena gear would be other arena players.
Good PvP gear is needed to make you competive in arenas but is not that hard to acquire. Once you get into the higher competive brackets everyone will have it. So the thing that those players really care about is standing and ratings (ie same as every other sport).
If all PvP gear was put into BGs, the PvPers would get the gear and then compete in the arenas.
You seem to have this image of a WoW player who will go to great lenghts to get gear that is not really going to impress anyone and whose only purpose is to continue doing the activity that got you the gear in the first place.
When WotLK was still new, I could see people farming PvP gear to supplement their PvE gear but that has become obsolete long ago.
Are you not reading my posts? I said nothing of PVPers farming for pve gear.
Actually I was completely speaking of pver's and pve gear. You know staying on topic and speaking of the pve armor the OP linked.
PVPers do farm for gear, its the motivation behind doing arenas. once you get this gear a whole mess of arena players dont care anymore. Only the really good ones go for the achievements/titles.
But this isn't what the topic is about I speaking only of pve armor and how people need to upgrade to a new set very quickly.
I dont even know how we got into the pvp discussion to be honest.
I am reading your posts but your logic seems irrational to me so I have to question it.
Actually you started this split from the main thread by commenting that arena players PvP mainly for the gear and most would not do arenas if the gear was obtainable otherwise.
According to your logic WoW PvPers will engage in arena PvP for the sole purpose of obtaining gear that does not grant them any significant social advantage or attention and is only needed if you are doing arena PvP. This is very irrational behaviour for a group of people that are supposed to be so obessed about status.
The much simpler and logical explenation would be that they will participate in arenas until they reach a bracket where they cannot advance higher in standing due to lack of the skill necessary at the top brackets and simply stop PvPing for a while. At that point they have also acquired the necessary PvP gear.
My disagreement with you is that I simply will not buy your theory that WoW players are so obessed about gear that does not give them any social status or an advantage in other parts of the game.
Most epic thread hi-jack in history. From what I skimmed through, Metalhead you cannot appoint yourself as a spokes person for all wow players what you say is what you think but for me as a player and as others have posted... your wrong. Its like me saying that the majority of EvE players just play to mine rocks all day and get ISK that's all they want to do, and that's all EvE is, a big ISK grind, grind ISK get a ship, grind more get a bigger ship etc. I am sure you would disagree but I am right cus I say I am.
You forgot the part where they all join corporations so they can then lie, cheat and steal from their corp mates as part of a Massive Multiplayer Con Game.
Actually, the PvP armor is usually pretty good for tanks. Also some healers benefit from the extra stamina and such too. But yes, PvP armor is for the most part useless in PvE.
WoW has a new Tier of armor. No surprise. It actually looks pretty decent, compared to the abomination that was T9 (the only good looking set was the DK/Paladin).
WoW is heavily based on gear. Warcraft devs have admitted that stat bonuses on gear are getting way out of hand, it's nothing like they originally intended, and they're going to tone it down in Cataclysm. Thank God.
Can't we see that we're (mostly) all right in this thread? WoW is very heavily dependent on gear. But, you don't have to grind gear if you don't want to...
...but to be competitive, you do. There is no arguing that point. That's how WoW is designed.
Most epic thread hi-jack in history. From what I skimmed through, Metalhead you cannot appoint yourself as a spokes person for all wow players what you say is what you think but for me as a player and as others have posted... your wrong. Its like me saying that the majority of EvE players just play to mine rocks all day and get ISK that's all they want to do, and that's all EvE is, a big ISK grind, grind ISK get a ship, grind more get a bigger ship etc. I am sure you would disagree but I am right cus I say I am.
How am I wrong when I say WoW is a gear focused game? Honestly with the exception of achievements ( a good feature actually) Everything you do leads to gear.
I didn't want to hi-jack your thread dude but it seems on this forum if you don't kiss the ass of the game in its own forum you get flamed. Also I was attacked by my own personal stalker.
So I had a little back and forth but I don't think im wrong in saying its gear focused and I don't think I'm wrong in saying that people just don't keep armor sets as long as they used to (due to upgrades released quickly).
I don't see how any of my original points in the discussion was wrong.
As for your comment on Eve you know jack shit. You played the trial and thats it (by your own admission) at least I keep tabs on WoW and played for three years in in a much higher caliber than you (MT, Full clear Naxx and BT and have legendaries).
Most epic thread hi-jack in history. From what I skimmed through, Metalhead you cannot appoint yourself as a spokes person for all wow players what you say is what you think but for me as a player and as others have posted... your wrong. Its like me saying that the majority of EvE players just play to mine rocks all day and get ISK that's all they want to do, and that's all EvE is, a big ISK grind, grind ISK get a ship, grind more get a bigger ship etc. I am sure you would disagree but I am right cus I say I am.
How am I wrong when I say WoW is a gear focused game? Honestly with the exception of achievements ( a good feature actually) Everything you do leads to gear.
I didn't want to hi-jack your thread dude but it seems on this forum if you don't kiss the ass of the game in its own forum you get flamed. Also I was attacked by my own personal stalker.
So I had a little back and forth but I don't think im wrong in saying its gear focused and I don't think I'm wrong in saying that people just don't keep armor sets as long as they used to (due to upgrades released quickly).
I don't see how any of my original points in the discussion was wrong.
As for your comment on Eve you know jack shit. You played the trial and thats it (by your own admission) at least I keep tabs on WoW and played for three years in in a much higher caliber than you (MT, Full clear Naxx and BT and have legendaries).
I was refering to your comments such as
Ahhh Zorn, For every player like you or the person you quoted are a hundred players that do nothing but wait for their lock out timers to expire so they could continue farming gear.
Like I said the wow players on this site are the minority and don't reflect how the player base really feels about WoW.
Whats the main goal of these players? character progression through itemization.
You know I'm right.
making you sound like the know-it-all of WoW, and becuase you think it then its true.
My comments on EvE where rubbish (although ISK is the gear grind of EvE, cannot do anything without ISK, am I right?), I dont know enough about EvE to comment just as your out of touch with WoW to comment.
Out of the two us do you really think you have a better handle on the current WoW community and their activites than I do? After all would you ask a pilot or a traffic warden how to fly a plane?
Yes there are players who play just for the gear but they don't last long and they most certinaly are not the majority of players, those are the players that burn out and turn on WoW, if the majority of players where there just for the gear WoW would still not command millions of western subs.
This thread has reminded me of ALMOST every single reason that I left WoW. The longer I'm away from it and playing other games, the more I realize how brainwashed (for lack of a better word) I was, by the dangling "shinies."
After a while...I think you just become mesmerized by the twinkle of that new weapon and that pretty new glowing, latest, greatest enchant....and the glowing smoke that drifts off the next tier's shoulders and all those macho digits listed on the item stats....OOooo Ahhhhhh.
It's like staring into some hypnotists spinning wheel or something. After a while, your brain turns to mush and you begin to look like a zombie staring into the monitor trying to down that raid boss and frothing at the mouth, when after the 15th kill, and sooooo much money in repairs and sooooo much time....that fucker STILL doesn't drop your weapon. And it USED to be....that even some jerk could accidentally (or on purpose) roll on it and win it, even though it was THEIR first run....(Yes, I know it's not like that anymore. But trust me...a lot of us suffered through a LOT of that.)
And you know...as much as I think Blizzard has labored over making this a game that appeals to so many people, there are, just like in CULTS....those who simply wake up from the stupor of long term indoctrination, and REALIZE....they've been enslaved. Frankly...not many get away from these kinds of psychological manipulations, but some...some do.
If you're one that escaped....be grateful. You no longer have to chase the latest greatest sparkly new whatever. (Hallelujah.) And for those that either truly enjoy the game...or are trapped by the hypnotic grind for shinies....
Well...more power to ya. It doesn't hurt ME that you want to play your game. Just try to understand that some of us....are actually breathing on our own for the first time in 5 years....and we're not likely to have escaped the grips of our captor without feeling a sense of wariness at the sheer suggestion of returning to do the SAME THING ALL OVER AGAIN ....for the 10th to 20th time on the very same toon. I would sooner stab a sharp knitting needle through my eye than grind up from my tier 8 and 9 set armor, to this new stuff. To me...it sounds like a torturous return to a cruel taskmaster.
This thread has reminded me of ALMOST every single reason that I left WoW. The longer I'm away from it and playing other games, the more I realize how brainwashed (for lack of a better word) I was, by the dangling "shinies."
After a while...I think you just become mesmerized by the twinkle of that new weapon and that pretty new glowing, latest, greatest enchant....and the glowing smoke that drifts off the next tier's shoulders and all those macho digits listed on the item stats....OOooo Ahhhhhh.
It's like staring into some hypnotists spinning wheel or something. After a while, your brain turns to mush and you being to look like a zombie staring into the monitor trying to down that raid boss and frothing at the mouth, when after the 15th kill, and sooooo much money in repairs and sooooo much time....that fucker STILL doesn't drop your weapon. And it USED to be....that even some jerk could accidentally (or on purpose) roll on it and win it, even though it was THEIR first run....(Yes, I know it's not like that anymore. But trust me...a lot of us suffered through a LOT of that.)
And you know...as much as I think Blizzard has labored over making this a game that appeals to so many people, there are, just like in CULTS....those who simply wake up from the stupor of long term indoctrination, and REALIZE....they've been enslaved. Frankly...not many get away from these kinds of psychological manipulations, but some...some do.
If you're one that escaped....be grateful. You no longer have to chase the latest greatest sparkly new whatever. (Hallelujah.) And for those that either truly enjoy the game...or are trapped by the hypnotic grind for shinies....
Well...more power to ya. It doesn't hurt ME that you want to play your game. Just try to understand that some of us....are actually breathing on our OWN for the first time in 5 years....and we're not likely to have escaped the grips of our captor without feeling a sense of wariness at the sheer suggestion of returning to do the SAME THING ALL OVER AGAIN ....for the 10th to 20th time on the very same toon. I would sooner stab a sharp knitting needle through my eye than grind up from my tier 8 and 9 set armor, to this new stuff. To me...it sounds like a torturous return to a cruel taskmaster.
To each...their own.
Agreed to an extent, though I think you're exaggerating for at least some comical effect. Because I laughed a little. To be honest, Raids are the only reason I'm playing WoW right now. I'm sick of leveling other characters, doing dailies, grinding rep, hunting for Achievements, and all the rest. I have a good Guild and I like to experience new content and try to get the best gear. I guess I'm hypnotized that way, but only on raid nights. If that's 10% of my MMO personality, the other 90% is very interested in a sandbox game right now (which is why I'm looking forward to MO and Earthrise, and considering trying Fallen Earth). Raids are what make WoW strong and they will continue to do so in the future, which is why Blizzard focuses on them above anything else. Yes, you can do other things in WoW, and that's great. Balanced, varying content is essential to a long-lasting MMO. But Raids are the bread and butter.
Don't get angry if the real WoW fans who spoke up in this thread get angry with you for this post, though. I'm sure they don't like being called brainwashed zombies, whether it's true or not. *Whistles and walks away...*
Agreed to an extent, though I think you're exaggerating for at least some comical effect. Because I laughed a little.
Yes, I was...and thank you for "getting" that.
To be honest, Raids are the only reason I'm playing WoW right now. I'm sick of leveling other characters, doing dailies, grinding rep, hunting for Achievements, and all the rest. I have a good Guild and I like to experience new content and try to get the best gear. I guess I'm hypnotized that way, but only on raid nights. If that's 10% of my MMO personality, the other 90% is very interested in a sandbox game right now (which is why I'm looking forward to MO and Earthrise, and considering trying Fallen Earth). Raids are what make WoW strong and they will continue to do so in the future, which is why Blizzard focuses on them above anything else. Yes, you can do other things in WoW, and that's great. Balanced, varying content is essential to a long-lasting MMO. But Raids are the bread and butter.
But a large raiding guild is what I came from and trust me...raiders get burnt out. If you had asked me just a year ago if I'd ever stop playing WoW or raiding in the near future...I would have said, "No way! I'm loving it!" Sometimes...too much of something...is, well...too much.
Don't get angry if the real WoW fans who spoke up in this thread get angry with you for this post, though. I'm sure they don't like being called brainwashed zombies, whether it's true or not. *Whistles and walks away...*
The funny thing is....I was one of the people that was so vehemently defending WoW, less than a year ago. And I'm not saying that THEY are necessarily that way...I'm saying that is how I became, MYSELF....before I realized it! What I was describing...was what I looked like, to myself, about the time I said, wait....this is just stupid.
Everyone will not feel the same, and why should we? We're all different people! I totally understand a love for WoW! I played the game from BETA for FIVE YEARS!!!! I'm not someone who only played a couple of months here! So I don't even PRETEND to not have loved the game. But everything under the sun....has an end. And I am grateful for these months of "breathing space." That doesn't mean that I "hate WoW," or the people who play it.
Agreed to an extent, though I think you're exaggerating for at least some comical effect. Because I laughed a little.
Yes, I was...and thank you for "getting" that.
To be honest, Raids are the only reason I'm playing WoW right now. I'm sick of leveling other characters, doing dailies, grinding rep, hunting for Achievements, and all the rest. I have a good Guild and I like to experience new content and try to get the best gear. I guess I'm hypnotized that way, but only on raid nights. If that's 10% of my MMO personality, the other 90% is very interested in a sandbox game right now (which is why I'm looking forward to MO and Earthrise, and considering trying Fallen Earth). Raids are what make WoW strong and they will continue to do so in the future, which is why Blizzard focuses on them above anything else. Yes, you can do other things in WoW, and that's great. Balanced, varying content is essential to a long-lasting MMO. But Raids are the bread and butter.
But a large raiding guild is what I came from and trust me...raiders get burnt out. If you had asked me just a year ago if I'd ever stop playing WoW or raiding in the near future...I would have said, "No way! I'm loving it!" Sometimes...too much of something...is, well...too much.
Don't get angry if the real WoW fans who spoke up in this thread get angry with you for this post, though. I'm sure they don't like being called brainwashed zombies, whether it's true or not. *Whistles and walks away...*
The funny thing is....I was one of the people that was so vehemently defending WoW, less than a year ago. And I'm not saying that THEY are necessarily that way...I'm saying that is how I became, MYSELF....before I realized it! What I was describing...was what I looked like, to myself, about the time I said, wait....this is just stupid.
Everyone will not feel the same, and why should we? We're all different people! I totally understand a love for WoW! I played the game from BETA for FIVE YEARS!!!! I'm not someone who only played a couple of months here! So I don't even PRETEND to not have loved the game. But everything under the sun....has an end. And I am grateful for these months of "breathing space." That doesn't mean that I "hate WoW," or the people who play it.
Thanks for painting a bleak picture for my WoW future. Yes, I'm a new raider, which probably explains why I'm not burnt out yet! I've played WoW for ~2 years now, on and off. I guess I'm just tired of everything else, but raids are still "worth it" to me because my character is not complete gear-wise. That and I'm lucky enough to be in a drama-free, real-life-comes-first raiding Guild. So, I'll see how long it lasts. The only reason I bothered to post in this thread is to say that both metalhead and the WoW fanbots were correct to an extent, and to try and stop the immature... "discussion", which wasn't a discussion the minute one side started resorting to insults. Insults mean you can no longer constructively disagree and you concede victory to your opponent. Or that you don't care anymore and you want to try to get the last word in, hehe.
Glad you had a little epiphany and took a break. WoW's pretty addicting for one reason or another, or, more likely, a combination of many reasons.
.....clipped again, because I type too damn much.....
Thanks for painting a bleak picture for my WoW future. Yes, I'm a new raider, which probably explains why I'm not burnt out yet! I've played WoW for ~2 years now, on and off. I guess I'm just tired of everything else, but raids are still "worth it" to me because my character is not complete gear-wise. That and I'm lucky enough to be in a drama-free, real-life-comes-first raiding Guild. So, I'll see how long it lasts. The only reason I bothered to post in this thread is to say that both metalhead and the WoW fanbots were correct to an extent, and to try and stop the immature... "discussion", which wasn't a discussion the minute one side started resorting to insults. Insults mean you can no longer constructively disagree and you concede victory to your opponent. Or that you don't care anymore and you want to try to get the last word in, hehe.
Glad you had a little epiphany and took a break. WoW's pretty addicting for one reason or another, or, more likely, a combination of many reasons.
You know what....your mileage....may totally vary. Maybe I just played more obsessively? Maybe my personality just has some flaws that cause me to dive into this with great abandon and OVER do them. * cough cough * I have a tendency to do things obsessively with my whole being for a few years at a time....games, playing guitar...even as a child....ballet, acting classes, basketball...you name it. So just because that was MY experience, certainly doesn't mean it will be yours.
I mean, there are people playing EQ that have been playing for TEN YEARS! O.O Makes me feel faint just thinking about that...lol! So I didn't mean to be a downer. Just expressing my own well....grief really. It's sort of sad to really enjoy something and then seemingly suddenly....have it fade to grey on you, ya know? A great guild helps...immensely, imo.
And yup...I totally agree that WoW is addictive, for many many reasons. And I'll readily admit that I have an addictive personality, so...anyway....like I said, you're mileage may vary, and I didn't mean to be a downer. Was really just kind of laughing at my immediate impulse upon seeing ALLLLLLLLL those tiers of armor I've gone through. Whoever posted that long list (leaving out the BG gear, even)....yeah....that got to me.
The 'gear is everything' epeen wavers get a lot of publicity but that is becuase they are the most vocal and visible of WoW's sub-groups. The top raiders only care about gear as far as it lets them beat more and more difficult content. The casual raiders care more about actually beating the regular content. It is the wannabe-hardore raiders who complain about 'welfare epics' and how new expansions destroy their 'gear progress'.
The 'Gear Myth' is that you need top end gear to raid in WoW. In fact if you are skilled enough you can do the harder content in pretty lackluster gear. The flip side of this is that if you are skilled in raiding then you are going to get the gear anyway.
Items are definetly a big part of WoW but they no longer define what you can or cannot do in the game.
The Gearscore Issue has become big news lately but most raids still get put together without considering gearscore or achievements.
I 100% disagree with you when it comes to gear defining what you can or cannot do in WoW. Obviously you only need tier 9 for the new raids. Would it make sense to need t10 to run it? try to do anythig with sub par gear and see how many raiding options you have.
The people on this forum that support WoW are an insignificant minority. the ones that speak of different ways to play other than getting items.
Lets go talk to the 99% of WoWs playerbase and ask them if WoWs main goal is to farm items.
You and I know full well what the focus of the game is.
We both know what they would say.
Fabricated statistics like these, are why it is exceedingly difficult for reasonable people to participate on these forums.
If you honestly believe your statement, then i honestly believe your out of touch with the heart of the Warcraft Community.
The game is the encounters. Gear is just a means of making encounters achievable, or easier. If you can't complete an encounter, you can upgrade your gear to give yourself an edge. Outgear the encounter. Roleplaying games have always been like this in my experience. If you failed, you usually went out and leveled, or upgraded your gear and tried again.
The tools aren't the trade.
You do not need to talk to metal head, he is simply living in his own dreams.
He keeps saying he knows 99% of the player base and can describe how they play what they want. Yet when questioned about what gear types there are, he simply cannot come up with an answer. When asked about the statistics, the attributes, the hit miss parry dodge SP AP spell penetration resilience ... he never dare answer. I ask him what ilvl means, simple as that and he still never answer. Seems he is taking a lot of time to learn about the true mechanics of WoW.
In simple terms, he knows NOTHING about WoW. He keeps believing that everyone is up for gear, gear he knows nothing about, ye somehow he got that notion from nowhere that everyone need gear, but what gear? He does not know. He keeps hoping we believe in him, even though we play the game, and we know much more about the game than him.
I come to recall the behaviour of my sister's boy when he was 2. He fell when playing in a flight of stairs and got his face cut. Ever since, he keeps telling us not to take the stairs and go by the lift, he insist the stairs are evil and have hands that will grab him and us. He is so certain about it, he keeps talking about the stair monster everyday for 1 year. Metal is just as mature and knowledgeable as the little 2 year old.
Comments
Nahh its mostly about gear. as an arena player gear is first then once you have all of your stuff you could go for achievements/titles.
I wonder how many people would arena on normal WoW servers if you couldn't get gear from it.
My guess would be none.
Considering that arena gear is only really good for arenas, I would say mostly the same amount of people. Arena gear is not that great for non-PvP activities so unless you are heavily into PvP, most players will not bother with it. If you are serious about arenas, you are not doing it to get PvE gear.
Nahh its mostly about gear. as an arena player gear is first then once you have all of your stuff you could go for achievements/titles.
I wonder how many people would arena on normal WoW servers if you couldn't get gear from it.
My guess would be none.
Considering that arena gear is only really good for arenas, I would say mostly the same amount of people. Arena gear is not that great for non-PvP activities so unless you are heavily into PvP, most players will not bother with it. If you are serious about arenas, you are not doing it to get PvE gear.
I never said arena players farmed for pve gear.
If they like arena they queue for them for pvp gear. That's the motivation.
I will say this, the achievement system gives the really good pvpers something to work toward after they get gear but most don't really care dude.
Imagine if achievements were the only reward of running arena and all the pvp gear would be tossed in BGs again.
What would happen? My guess would be that most would just farm BGs.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
WoW is just a Diablo mmo. Run the same places over and over again for loot. Thats its essence, confirmed by Blizzard at some point. The Diablo item-frenzy was the big inspiration for WoW.Now, I dont know if thats a good or bad thing, but it does get boring. At least it did for me, which is why Im not playing anymore.
You hear that Metalhead?
"WOW is a fun game to play". Here is how I play at the moment. ....Started naked on a new PvP server.
Just lvl'd to 18.
; 145 in fishing etc....62 Gold.
Had my first blue Mace in the DM.
All crafted mail greens.
Level 125 in Blacksmithing.
Getting fuilthy rich with crafting the silver Rod enchanters need (8 gold a piece) and selling armor/weapons greens at 3G
Did a few BG's and owned the place.
SHUT down Experience now and stop leveling at lvl 19.
Will do DM, SFK a few more times and do the quests I like to do. Always in challenge mode (3 to 4 levels higher - die....).
When done and had enough fun in the dungeons at that level
Put up Experience again and level until 20 through the BG's.
Take the BG's awards all the way in Ashenvale ... and continue my journey through Azeroth a last time before Cata hits.
----> Who needs T10? ..... btw I never had a full set of the latest gear (as 99% of WOW players).
Oh yeah, ... once a week I join my friends and find my main for that casual Raid and do ONE heroic a day with it.
And .... Have fun mining those space mines in that game without gravity, landscape, feet .... I am off with my crafted Helicopter.
Ahhh Zorn, For every player like you or the person you quoted are a hundred players that do nothing but wait for their lock out timers to expire so they could continue farming gear.
Like I said the wow players on this site are the minority and don't reflect how the player base really feels about WoW.
Whats the main goal of these players? character progression through itemization.
You know I'm right.
I will give you credit for doing something out of the ordinary but its not something the majority of your player base cares for.
OH and I never said Item farming wasn't fun for certain people.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Nahh its mostly about gear. as an arena player gear is first then once you have all of your stuff you could go for achievements/titles.
I wonder how many people would arena on normal WoW servers if you couldn't get gear from it.
My guess would be none.
Considering that arena gear is only really good for arenas, I would say mostly the same amount of people. Arena gear is not that great for non-PvP activities so unless you are heavily into PvP, most players will not bother with it. If you are serious about arenas, you are not doing it to get PvE gear.
I never said arena players farmed for pve gear.
If they like arena they queue for them for pvp gear. That's the motivation.
I will say this, the achievement system gives the really good pvpers something to work toward after they get gear but most don't really care dude.
Imagine if achievements were the only reward of running arena and all the pvp gear would be tossed in BGs again.
What would happen? My guess would be that most would just farm BGs.
You seem to dwell under the illusion that arena players only want the shiny gear so they can show it off. PvP gear is only that good in PvP (Arena and BGs). For raiding purposes PvP gear is generally considered sub-par. So the only people who would appreciate good arena gear would be other arena players.
Good PvP gear is needed to make you competive in arenas but is not that hard to acquire. Once you get into the higher competive brackets everyone will have it. So the thing that those players really care about is standing and ratings (ie same as every other sport).
If all PvP gear was put into BGs, the PvPers would get the gear and then compete in the arenas.
You seem to have this image of a WoW player who will go to great lenghts to get gear that is not really going to impress anyone and whose only purpose is to continue doing the activity that got you the gear in the first place.
When WotLK was still new, I could see people farming PvP gear to supplement their PvE gear but that has become obsolete long ago.
You keep saying that as if it is going to make it true.
From my experience the WoW players posting here are a much better representation of the general WoW playerbase than those who post on the official WoW forums. There is a massive disconnect between the public image of WoW and how the 'normal' players play the game.
Nahh its mostly about gear. as an arena player gear is first then once you have all of your stuff you could go for achievements/titles.
I wonder how many people would arena on normal WoW servers if you couldn't get gear from it.
My guess would be none.
Considering that arena gear is only really good for arenas, I would say mostly the same amount of people. Arena gear is not that great for non-PvP activities so unless you are heavily into PvP, most players will not bother with it. If you are serious about arenas, you are not doing it to get PvE gear.
I never said arena players farmed for pve gear.
If they like arena they queue for them for pvp gear. That's the motivation.
I will say this, the achievement system gives the really good pvpers something to work toward after they get gear but most don't really care dude.
Imagine if achievements were the only reward of running arena and all the pvp gear would be tossed in BGs again.
What would happen? My guess would be that most would just farm BGs.
You seem to dwell under the illusion that arena players only want the shiny gear so they can show it off. PvP gear is only that good in PvP (Arena and BGs). For raiding purposes PvP gear is generally considered sub-par. So the only people who would appreciate good arena gear would be other arena players.
Good PvP gear is needed to make you competive in arenas but is not that hard to acquire. Once you get into the higher competive brackets everyone will have it. So the thing that those players really care about is standing and ratings (ie same as every other sport).
If all PvP gear was put into BGs, the PvPers would get the gear and then compete in the arenas.
You seem to have this image of a WoW player who will go to great lenghts to get gear that is not really going to impress anyone and whose only purpose is to continue doing the activity that got you the gear in the first place.
When WotLK was still new, I could see people farming PvP gear to supplement their PvE gear but that has become obsolete long ago.
Are you not reading my posts? I said nothing of PVPers farming for pve gear.
Actually I was completely speaking of pver's and pve gear. You know staying on topic and speaking of the pve armor the OP linked.
PVPers do farm for gear, its the motivation behind doing arenas. once you get this gear a whole mess of arena players dont care anymore. Only the really good ones go for the achievements/titles.
But this isn't what the topic is about I speaking only of pve armor and how people need to upgrade to a new set very quickly.
I dont even know how we got into the pvp discussion to be honest.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
You keep saying that as if it is going to make it true.
From my experience the WoW players posting here are a much better representation of the general WoW playerbase than those who post on the official WoW forums. There is a massive disconnect between the public image of WoW and how the 'normal' players play the game.
The forum community of WoW is very small compared to the games overall numbers.
And no Mmorpg.com with its 100+ wow fans don't represent the wow community more than the hundreds of thousands on its official forum. hardly anyone knows what this site even is in WoW.
I understand how this could bother you though, discussing a topic in a game that the community doesnt even consider viable in anyway.
It's the same with Eve noone gives a shit about this site and most people don't care what the official forum goers say. THe opinion of the vocal minority mean nothing in individual games and even less in the grand sceme of things in the entire genre.
Seriously this site is pro sandbox LOL! it means nothing and is in no way a representation of anything.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I play both. So I will Hijack this thread because I am better then all of you.
In my Domi if I have problems with a certain type of other ship, instead of guns I put neuts mixed with nos = Surprise. Can't do that in WOW, by me regemming I will probably piss some clowns off at elitistjerks.com and the stats will make some type of difference but not what would result in a complete change of gameplay.
Now before I get hit by all your WOWers out there I will say one thing, it takes forever to pvp in eve and damn it they really have to speed the process up and although sleepers are a bit of a challenge, I wonder just how much more I can take looking at the vast emptiness of dark space. There are days I like it and there are days I don't
On topic, once you have a force recon in eve, I kid you not you have reached the end of the game. Stealth gank ships are the end, because now you can wait for the pvp to come to you on certain asteroid belts. They all see you in local but if they don't see you warp in then bingo you have a chance for some epic ganks. Yeah yeah you can say end game is a titan or your own outpost but pvp endgame is that!!!
Wow is a gear grind always has been always will be. Play all day play all night burning the candle on both ends to get new gear run instance every week to get purple items. Wait for expac run this shit again and again. There are a few that have there senses but a majority (wow forums) would rather raid until 4 in the morning then eat. I don't need stats to prove this I just know.
That's my pros cons and rants all in one, concise thought need not apply, I can blurt what I want!
I never played eve nor ddo, Im playing lotro and I never felt the need to block anyone yet. I found that what I always wanted in wow was not gear, but to look heroic. in lotro, i can customize my appearance and look semi-heroic from the start. Playing this way, I find gear upgrades meaningless.
Besides, I dare you to stay angry at a hobbit. I double dare you =P
That is something i really enjoyed about Everquest 2. You had your gear slots, and your appearance slots. It really made people look unique.
If Warcraft added a feature like this it would unhinge the pvp community. A shame really, cause it gives people another option to express themselves creatively.
Nothing excites jaded Grandmasters more than a theoretical novelty
I never played eve nor ddo, Im playing lotro and I never felt the need to block anyone yet. I found that what I always wanted in wow was not gear, but to look heroic. in lotro, i can customize my appearance and look semi-heroic from the start. Playing this way, I find gear upgrades meaningless.
Besides, I dare you to stay angry at a hobbit. I double dare you =P
That is something i really enjoyed about Everquest 2. You had your gear slots, and your appearance slots. It really made people look unique.
If Warcraft added a feature like this it would unhinge the pvp community. A shame really, cause it gives people another option to express themselves creatively.
Me and WoW guildmates used to talk about the possibility and the end was always a "will never happen". Why? because the WoW community revolves around two concepts: Envy and greed. Envy the items on these people, and do whatever you can to get them. They want you too oogle at other people's shinies so you covet them.
Most epic thread hi-jack in history.
From what I skimmed through, Metalhead you cannot appoint yourself as a spokes person for all wow players what you say is what you think but for me as a player and as others have posted... your wrong. Its like me saying that the majority of EvE players just play to mine rocks all day and get ISK that's all they want to do, and that's all EvE is, a big ISK grind, grind ISK get a ship, grind more get a bigger ship etc. I am sure you would disagree but I am right cus I say I am.
Nahh its mostly about gear. as an arena player gear is first then once you have all of your stuff you could go for achievements/titles.
I wonder how many people would arena on normal WoW servers if you couldn't get gear from it.
My guess would be none.
Considering that arena gear is only really good for arenas, I would say mostly the same amount of people. Arena gear is not that great for non-PvP activities so unless you are heavily into PvP, most players will not bother with it. If you are serious about arenas, you are not doing it to get PvE gear.
I never said arena players farmed for pve gear.
If they like arena they queue for them for pvp gear. That's the motivation.
I will say this, the achievement system gives the really good pvpers something to work toward after they get gear but most don't really care dude.
Imagine if achievements were the only reward of running arena and all the pvp gear would be tossed in BGs again.
What would happen? My guess would be that most would just farm BGs.
You seem to dwell under the illusion that arena players only want the shiny gear so they can show it off. PvP gear is only that good in PvP (Arena and BGs). For raiding purposes PvP gear is generally considered sub-par. So the only people who would appreciate good arena gear would be other arena players.
Good PvP gear is needed to make you competive in arenas but is not that hard to acquire. Once you get into the higher competive brackets everyone will have it. So the thing that those players really care about is standing and ratings (ie same as every other sport).
If all PvP gear was put into BGs, the PvPers would get the gear and then compete in the arenas.
You seem to have this image of a WoW player who will go to great lenghts to get gear that is not really going to impress anyone and whose only purpose is to continue doing the activity that got you the gear in the first place.
When WotLK was still new, I could see people farming PvP gear to supplement their PvE gear but that has become obsolete long ago.
Are you not reading my posts? I said nothing of PVPers farming for pve gear.
Actually I was completely speaking of pver's and pve gear. You know staying on topic and speaking of the pve armor the OP linked.
PVPers do farm for gear, its the motivation behind doing arenas. once you get this gear a whole mess of arena players dont care anymore. Only the really good ones go for the achievements/titles.
But this isn't what the topic is about I speaking only of pve armor and how people need to upgrade to a new set very quickly.
I dont even know how we got into the pvp discussion to be honest.
I am reading your posts but your logic seems irrational to me so I have to question it.
Actually you started this split from the main thread by commenting that arena players PvP mainly for the gear and most would not do arenas if the gear was obtainable otherwise.
According to your logic WoW PvPers will engage in arena PvP for the sole purpose of obtaining gear that does not grant them any significant social advantage or attention and is only needed if you are doing arena PvP. This is very irrational behaviour for a group of people that are supposed to be so obessed about status.
The much simpler and logical explenation would be that they will participate in arenas until they reach a bracket where they cannot advance higher in standing due to lack of the skill necessary at the top brackets and simply stop PvPing for a while. At that point they have also acquired the necessary PvP gear.
My disagreement with you is that I simply will not buy your theory that WoW players are so obessed about gear that does not give them any social status or an advantage in other parts of the game.
You forgot the part where they all join corporations so they can then lie, cheat and steal from their corp mates as part of a Massive Multiplayer Con Game.
Actually, the PvP armor is usually pretty good for tanks. Also some healers benefit from the extra stamina and such too. But yes, PvP armor is for the most part useless in PvE.
Mind if I interject in this shithole of a thread?
WoW has a new Tier of armor. No surprise. It actually looks pretty decent, compared to the abomination that was T9 (the only good looking set was the DK/Paladin).
WoW is heavily based on gear. Warcraft devs have admitted that stat bonuses on gear are getting way out of hand, it's nothing like they originally intended, and they're going to tone it down in Cataclysm. Thank God.
Can't we see that we're (mostly) all right in this thread? WoW is very heavily dependent on gear. But, you don't have to grind gear if you don't want to...
...but to be competitive, you do. There is no arguing that point. That's how WoW is designed.
How am I wrong when I say WoW is a gear focused game? Honestly with the exception of achievements ( a good feature actually) Everything you do leads to gear.
I didn't want to hi-jack your thread dude but it seems on this forum if you don't kiss the ass of the game in its own forum you get flamed. Also I was attacked by my own personal stalker.
So I had a little back and forth but I don't think im wrong in saying its gear focused and I don't think I'm wrong in saying that people just don't keep armor sets as long as they used to (due to upgrades released quickly).
I don't see how any of my original points in the discussion was wrong.
As for your comment on Eve you know jack shit. You played the trial and thats it (by your own admission) at least I keep tabs on WoW and played for three years in in a much higher caliber than you (MT, Full clear Naxx and BT and have legendaries).
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
How am I wrong when I say WoW is a gear focused game? Honestly with the exception of achievements ( a good feature actually) Everything you do leads to gear.
I didn't want to hi-jack your thread dude but it seems on this forum if you don't kiss the ass of the game in its own forum you get flamed. Also I was attacked by my own personal stalker.
So I had a little back and forth but I don't think im wrong in saying its gear focused and I don't think I'm wrong in saying that people just don't keep armor sets as long as they used to (due to upgrades released quickly).
I don't see how any of my original points in the discussion was wrong.
As for your comment on Eve you know jack shit. You played the trial and thats it (by your own admission) at least I keep tabs on WoW and played for three years in in a much higher caliber than you (MT, Full clear Naxx and BT and have legendaries).
I was refering to your comments such as
Ahhh Zorn, For every player like you or the person you quoted are a hundred players that do nothing but wait for their lock out timers to expire so they could continue farming gear.
Like I said the wow players on this site are the minority and don't reflect how the player base really feels about WoW.
Whats the main goal of these players? character progression through itemization.
You know I'm right.
making you sound like the know-it-all of WoW, and becuase you think it then its true.
My comments on EvE where rubbish (although ISK is the gear grind of EvE, cannot do anything without ISK, am I right?), I dont know enough about EvE to comment just as your out of touch with WoW to comment.
Out of the two us do you really think you have a better handle on the current WoW community and their activites than I do? After all would you ask a pilot or a traffic warden how to fly a plane?
Yes there are players who play just for the gear but they don't last long and they most certinaly are not the majority of players, those are the players that burn out and turn on WoW, if the majority of players where there just for the gear WoW would still not command millions of western subs.
Wow. (no pun intended)
This thread has reminded me of ALMOST every single reason that I left WoW. The longer I'm away from it and playing other games, the more I realize how brainwashed (for lack of a better word) I was, by the dangling "shinies."
After a while...I think you just become mesmerized by the twinkle of that new weapon and that pretty new glowing, latest, greatest enchant....and the glowing smoke that drifts off the next tier's shoulders and all those macho digits listed on the item stats....OOooo Ahhhhhh.
It's like staring into some hypnotists spinning wheel or something. After a while, your brain turns to mush and you begin to look like a zombie staring into the monitor trying to down that raid boss and frothing at the mouth, when after the 15th kill, and sooooo much money in repairs and sooooo much time....that fucker STILL doesn't drop your weapon. And it USED to be....that even some jerk could accidentally (or on purpose) roll on it and win it, even though it was THEIR first run....(Yes, I know it's not like that anymore. But trust me...a lot of us suffered through a LOT of that.)
And you know...as much as I think Blizzard has labored over making this a game that appeals to so many people, there are, just like in CULTS....those who simply wake up from the stupor of long term indoctrination, and REALIZE....they've been enslaved. Frankly...not many get away from these kinds of psychological manipulations, but some...some do.
If you're one that escaped....be grateful. You no longer have to chase the latest greatest sparkly new whatever. (Hallelujah.) And for those that either truly enjoy the game...or are trapped by the hypnotic grind for shinies....
Well...more power to ya. It doesn't hurt ME that you want to play your game. Just try to understand that some of us....are actually breathing on our own for the first time in 5 years....and we're not likely to have escaped the grips of our captor without feeling a sense of wariness at the sheer suggestion of returning to do the SAME THING ALL OVER AGAIN ....for the 10th to 20th time on the very same toon. I would sooner stab a sharp knitting needle through my eye than grind up from my tier 8 and 9 set armor, to this new stuff. To me...it sounds like a torturous return to a cruel taskmaster.
To each...their own.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Agreed to an extent, though I think you're exaggerating for at least some comical effect. Because I laughed a little. To be honest, Raids are the only reason I'm playing WoW right now. I'm sick of leveling other characters, doing dailies, grinding rep, hunting for Achievements, and all the rest. I have a good Guild and I like to experience new content and try to get the best gear. I guess I'm hypnotized that way, but only on raid nights. If that's 10% of my MMO personality, the other 90% is very interested in a sandbox game right now (which is why I'm looking forward to MO and Earthrise, and considering trying Fallen Earth). Raids are what make WoW strong and they will continue to do so in the future, which is why Blizzard focuses on them above anything else. Yes, you can do other things in WoW, and that's great. Balanced, varying content is essential to a long-lasting MMO. But Raids are the bread and butter.
Don't get angry if the real WoW fans who spoke up in this thread get angry with you for this post, though. I'm sure they don't like being called brainwashed zombies, whether it's true or not. *Whistles and walks away...*
Agreed to an extent, though I think you're exaggerating for at least some comical effect. Because I laughed a little.
Yes, I was...and thank you for "getting" that.
To be honest, Raids are the only reason I'm playing WoW right now. I'm sick of leveling other characters, doing dailies, grinding rep, hunting for Achievements, and all the rest. I have a good Guild and I like to experience new content and try to get the best gear. I guess I'm hypnotized that way, but only on raid nights. If that's 10% of my MMO personality, the other 90% is very interested in a sandbox game right now (which is why I'm looking forward to MO and Earthrise, and considering trying Fallen Earth). Raids are what make WoW strong and they will continue to do so in the future, which is why Blizzard focuses on them above anything else. Yes, you can do other things in WoW, and that's great. Balanced, varying content is essential to a long-lasting MMO. But Raids are the bread and butter.
But a large raiding guild is what I came from and trust me...raiders get burnt out. If you had asked me just a year ago if I'd ever stop playing WoW or raiding in the near future...I would have said, "No way! I'm loving it!" Sometimes...too much of something...is, well...too much.
Don't get angry if the real WoW fans who spoke up in this thread get angry with you for this post, though. I'm sure they don't like being called brainwashed zombies, whether it's true or not. *Whistles and walks away...*
The funny thing is....I was one of the people that was so vehemently defending WoW, less than a year ago. And I'm not saying that THEY are necessarily that way...I'm saying that is how I became, MYSELF....before I realized it! What I was describing...was what I looked like, to myself, about the time I said, wait....this is just stupid.
Everyone will not feel the same, and why should we? We're all different people! I totally understand a love for WoW! I played the game from BETA for FIVE YEARS!!!! I'm not someone who only played a couple of months here! So I don't even PRETEND to not have loved the game. But everything under the sun....has an end. And I am grateful for these months of "breathing space." That doesn't mean that I "hate WoW," or the people who play it.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Agreed to an extent, though I think you're exaggerating for at least some comical effect. Because I laughed a little.
Yes, I was...and thank you for "getting" that.
To be honest, Raids are the only reason I'm playing WoW right now. I'm sick of leveling other characters, doing dailies, grinding rep, hunting for Achievements, and all the rest. I have a good Guild and I like to experience new content and try to get the best gear. I guess I'm hypnotized that way, but only on raid nights. If that's 10% of my MMO personality, the other 90% is very interested in a sandbox game right now (which is why I'm looking forward to MO and Earthrise, and considering trying Fallen Earth). Raids are what make WoW strong and they will continue to do so in the future, which is why Blizzard focuses on them above anything else. Yes, you can do other things in WoW, and that's great. Balanced, varying content is essential to a long-lasting MMO. But Raids are the bread and butter.
But a large raiding guild is what I came from and trust me...raiders get burnt out. If you had asked me just a year ago if I'd ever stop playing WoW or raiding in the near future...I would have said, "No way! I'm loving it!" Sometimes...too much of something...is, well...too much.
Don't get angry if the real WoW fans who spoke up in this thread get angry with you for this post, though. I'm sure they don't like being called brainwashed zombies, whether it's true or not. *Whistles and walks away...*
The funny thing is....I was one of the people that was so vehemently defending WoW, less than a year ago. And I'm not saying that THEY are necessarily that way...I'm saying that is how I became, MYSELF....before I realized it! What I was describing...was what I looked like, to myself, about the time I said, wait....this is just stupid.
Everyone will not feel the same, and why should we? We're all different people! I totally understand a love for WoW! I played the game from BETA for FIVE YEARS!!!! I'm not someone who only played a couple of months here! So I don't even PRETEND to not have loved the game. But everything under the sun....has an end. And I am grateful for these months of "breathing space." That doesn't mean that I "hate WoW," or the people who play it.
Thanks for painting a bleak picture for my WoW future. Yes, I'm a new raider, which probably explains why I'm not burnt out yet! I've played WoW for ~2 years now, on and off. I guess I'm just tired of everything else, but raids are still "worth it" to me because my character is not complete gear-wise. That and I'm lucky enough to be in a drama-free, real-life-comes-first raiding Guild. So, I'll see how long it lasts. The only reason I bothered to post in this thread is to say that both metalhead and the WoW fanbots were correct to an extent, and to try and stop the immature... "discussion", which wasn't a discussion the minute one side started resorting to insults. Insults mean you can no longer constructively disagree and you concede victory to your opponent. Or that you don't care anymore and you want to try to get the last word in, hehe.
Glad you had a little epiphany and took a break. WoW's pretty addicting for one reason or another, or, more likely, a combination of many reasons.
Thanks for painting a bleak picture for my WoW future. Yes, I'm a new raider, which probably explains why I'm not burnt out yet! I've played WoW for ~2 years now, on and off. I guess I'm just tired of everything else, but raids are still "worth it" to me because my character is not complete gear-wise. That and I'm lucky enough to be in a drama-free, real-life-comes-first raiding Guild. So, I'll see how long it lasts. The only reason I bothered to post in this thread is to say that both metalhead and the WoW fanbots were correct to an extent, and to try and stop the immature... "discussion", which wasn't a discussion the minute one side started resorting to insults. Insults mean you can no longer constructively disagree and you concede victory to your opponent. Or that you don't care anymore and you want to try to get the last word in, hehe.
Glad you had a little epiphany and took a break. WoW's pretty addicting for one reason or another, or, more likely, a combination of many reasons.
You know what....your mileage....may totally vary. Maybe I just played more obsessively? Maybe my personality just has some flaws that cause me to dive into this with great abandon and OVER do them. * cough cough * I have a tendency to do things obsessively with my whole being for a few years at a time....games, playing guitar...even as a child....ballet, acting classes, basketball...you name it. So just because that was MY experience, certainly doesn't mean it will be yours.
I mean, there are people playing EQ that have been playing for TEN YEARS! O.O Makes me feel faint just thinking about that...lol! So I didn't mean to be a downer. Just expressing my own well....grief really. It's sort of sad to really enjoy something and then seemingly suddenly....have it fade to grey on you, ya know? A great guild helps...immensely, imo.
And yup...I totally agree that WoW is addictive, for many many reasons. And I'll readily admit that I have an addictive personality, so...anyway....like I said, you're mileage may vary, and I didn't mean to be a downer. Was really just kind of laughing at my immediate impulse upon seeing ALLLLLLLLL those tiers of armor I've gone through. Whoever posted that long list (leaving out the BG gear, even)....yeah....that got to me.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
You call them 'trends', I call them stereotypes.
The 'gear is everything' epeen wavers get a lot of publicity but that is becuase they are the most vocal and visible of WoW's sub-groups. The top raiders only care about gear as far as it lets them beat more and more difficult content. The casual raiders care more about actually beating the regular content. It is the wannabe-hardore raiders who complain about 'welfare epics' and how new expansions destroy their 'gear progress'.
The 'Gear Myth' is that you need top end gear to raid in WoW. In fact if you are skilled enough you can do the harder content in pretty lackluster gear. The flip side of this is that if you are skilled in raiding then you are going to get the gear anyway.
Items are definetly a big part of WoW but they no longer define what you can or cannot do in the game.
The Gearscore Issue has become big news lately but most raids still get put together without considering gearscore or achievements.
I 100% disagree with you when it comes to gear defining what you can or cannot do in WoW. Obviously you only need tier 9 for the new raids. Would it make sense to need t10 to run it? try to do anythig with sub par gear and see how many raiding options you have.
The people on this forum that support WoW are an insignificant minority. the ones that speak of different ways to play other than getting items.
Lets go talk to the 99% of WoWs playerbase and ask them if WoWs main goal is to farm items.
You and I know full well what the focus of the game is.
We both know what they would say.
Fabricated statistics like these, are why it is exceedingly difficult for reasonable people to participate on these forums.
If you honestly believe your statement, then i honestly believe your out of touch with the heart of the Warcraft Community.
The game is the encounters. Gear is just a means of making encounters achievable, or easier. If you can't complete an encounter, you can upgrade your gear to give yourself an edge. Outgear the encounter. Roleplaying games have always been like this in my experience. If you failed, you usually went out and leveled, or upgraded your gear and tried again.
The tools aren't the trade.
You do not need to talk to metal head, he is simply living in his own dreams.
He keeps saying he knows 99% of the player base and can describe how they play what they want. Yet when questioned about what gear types there are, he simply cannot come up with an answer. When asked about the statistics, the attributes, the hit miss parry dodge SP AP spell penetration resilience ... he never dare answer. I ask him what ilvl means, simple as that and he still never answer. Seems he is taking a lot of time to learn about the true mechanics of WoW.
In simple terms, he knows NOTHING about WoW. He keeps believing that everyone is up for gear, gear he knows nothing about, ye somehow he got that notion from nowhere that everyone need gear, but what gear? He does not know. He keeps hoping we believe in him, even though we play the game, and we know much more about the game than him.
I come to recall the behaviour of my sister's boy when he was 2. He fell when playing in a flight of stairs and got his face cut. Ever since, he keeps telling us not to take the stairs and go by the lift, he insist the stairs are evil and have hands that will grab him and us. He is so certain about it, he keeps talking about the stair monster everyday for 1 year. Metal is just as mature and knowledgeable as the little 2 year old.