You have been warned. What difference is it to you if it's gay sex or not? It's in game and it's up to you as the player to pursue it. It's my understanding that if you don't wish to see gay sex, you won't.
More than that. This is a game about making moral choices. The game doesn't usually say what's right or wrong, it lets you chart that course. Nothing you choose is 100% one way or the other, usually.
Thus, you can quite literally play the game as someone asexual, you can also chastise and ostracize members of your party who tell you they're inclined towards the same gender. Quite literally, an option when Zevran first reveals he goes both ways is to ask him to leave the party because you're not comfortable with that.
And ironically, the "best" option for your character in the game might well be to do that.
It's a video game about morality. Thus it presents all sides of the coin.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
I have 100 gig of porn on my HD and I regularly have sex with people who I am not married to.
That does not make me want to have porn in a friggin computer game. Why are you trying so hard to advocate for porn in a video game?
And as for changing the view of people here? I dont care less about that. I rather am trying to defend those people who may think it is inappropriate to have porn hidden in fantasy RPGs. Because you know, most, people play fantasy RPGs for other reasons than to see sexual acts (be it gay or otherwise).
In this age, with all the sexual liberals around, corps are trying to use sex to cash in on everything and that could lead to detrimental effects on the society. Such as STDs, unwanted pregnancies and sexual assaults all of which are among the highest ever in the recorded history in most countries.
Sex is not just sex but has consequences. It is easy to forget that will all the visual depictions seen in media and now it is spreading to fantasy RPGs as well. What is next, sport games? Fifa World Soccer with the player screwing each other after the game?
I'm not advocating porn, I'm telling you it is not porn.
You miss even the simplest points ....
You dont get to tell others what is porn or not. Lesbian sex between two hot, young women is considered porn by alot of people. It may not be for you but it is for many others.
For being considered porn should have explicit nudity and that's not the case. From the dictionary: "when sexual acts are performed for a live audience, by definition it is not pornography, as the term applies to the depiction of the act, rather than the act itself. Thus, portrayals such as sex shows and striptease are not classified as pornography."
I can call porn Tomb Raider if I want to but my personal opinion doesn't change the meaning of the world.
Thats a very narrow and incorrect definition of pornopgraphy. From Merriam Webster Online dictionary (one of the largest online dictionaries)
The depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement.
Does not need to have nudity of any sort but only have the intent to cause sexual excitement. One may argue that is not the intent but two, young lesbians rolling around in the ground, kissing each other I think would be sexually arousing for most straight males.
Just a point of curiosity do you believe any sex or romance is pornography even if it is part of a story and there to make the viewer/reader more invested in the characters and story?
Does that mean for a story not to have PORN by your definition that all charters must behave as if they have no sexual organs or the slightest intrest in the opposite sex.
A point here, females are often sexually aroused by word play and flirtation more than images. For there to be no PORN the characters would have to be sexually neutered, so as to not accidentally arouse people with flirting.
I agree with you. In his definition something erotic and pornographic have the same definition and the same intention: "cause sexual excitement". Hell, even a girl dancing can get turn on to someone, that doesn't make Dirty Dancing a porno movie +_+U
I consider Worldnetdaily a very good website exposing government corruption and its failures in all its forms. The article does not surprise me as they are a Christian website. They are only writing articles based how thir political and religious view. Whether we like it or not, agree or disagree they have a right to print it or put it on the web.
Parents and Adults must make the choice themselves of what games they play and what they expose to themselves or thier children. Bottom Line.
I own Dragon Age origins and i dont play it in front of my 8 year old.
(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH raises plunger to joesph Farrah for exposing goverment corruption!)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Well seeing as you are incapable of distinguishing between sex and sex in popular media then whats the point in discussing this? If you feel sex is "part of human society" then please go ahead, make a movie of you and your gf having sex and release it to the public.
I wasn't even talking about the game at that point, I was talking about discussing sex. I was not even talking about you either, touchy much?
Here's the thing. Sex being depicted shouldn't be a problem, biggest reason is you have the option to avoid it. People that don't want to see it, have the option to ignore it completely. You chose to make a deal out of it, which makes you no different then the writer. If you don't like sex in games, go play a game without it. People that do, will. Accept and move on.
As for the sex tape you suggested. Only if I can sell it at 18$ a dvd.
Obviously I can choose to not play it, or not play computer games at all, or go live in a cave and not speak to anyone... but that is not the point.
The point is that if I play a fantasy game I dont expect to find porn in it. In particular I dont expect the game to give me rewards in engaging in it. Why? Because I play games not for seeing porn but to play games.
When I want to watch porn, I watch porn. I dont see any point in mixing it with fantasy RPG.
Why not mix it with fantasy RPG?
There is sex on legends, myths and almost all human artistic creations.
Most of time it is there because it is related to the base of social relationships and desires.
If you want to avoid any creation related to sex, desire and human body you will avoid every Shakespeare's piece , Greek Mythology, most or art from Romantism,Classicism and Expressionism, movies from directors like David Lynch, Cronenberg, Tinto Brass, most of fictional creations related to horror etc
The idea that sex is "there" only to get more money is sometimes just an illusion.
Everything that is related to human will have sex on it, implicit or explicit.
Tolkien's work is one of the fill fantasy creations that has no sex (in a explicit way) just becouse the author had serious issues against human desire (you can search for it), even so you can find sexuality in his work.
So, in the end, the issue is not "sex on media, art and entertainment" but the lack of artistic knowledge, moral aspects and judgmental behavior most of repressed people has. And this kind of repressed behavior will always contribuit to the real sex industry not sexuality depicted as an human and expressive characterist.
I can use "you" as an example (based on your words). "You" (as the moralist one) Don´t want to see sex in a natural way depicted in games, books and movies, you want sex to be secretive or confined to "traditional pornography". What you expressed is the pure example of repression.
...
Another liberal nutjob that calls me repressed. Just because I like porn to be in ehm I dont know, porn movies does not make me repressed. How is it secretive it is clearly visual to anyone that it is porn? It is the complete opposite of being secretive so that makes no sense what so ever.
However you seem to want to push porn on everyone by secretely putting it in other media where one does not expect it. Thus forcing your liberal and commercial view of sex on others. Hey newsflash for you, not everyone thinks that sex should be public, for some people (most I would say) it is something private
That is not being repressive, that is being private. You like to be public with your sexual urges then please, go ahead. But stfu about me being repressive when it is you who want to shove down commercial sex down everyones throats.
Also, are you comparing the works of Shakespear to two scantly cled lesbians having casual sex in a second grade comercial computer game? I guess art and history has zero meaning to you and we are just animals to our sexual desires right?
And sex as base of relationships, yeah sexual relationships? You are some damaged person if you think that sex is the base of many social relationships.
And those of the things that you say I think is a complete fabrication. I dont mind sex in media as long as it is clearly specified that the media contains that. It is, again, rather you who want it to be hidden so that everyone are exposed to it.
Because if they want to watch a fantasy RPG and not have porn in it then they are repressed right? You damn liberals...
I just find it funny that he won't address the point of the game cover tells you it has sexual content. No, Yeah, that's right, and if people want to know more about what kind of content they should then look it up on the internet.
No, it's the realize I'm wrong so ignore that aspect of the debate internet forum manuver +5.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Something I left out of the article, but perhaps will bring it back around (this is not about liberals vs. conservatives!)... The absolute and hilarious irony is that this is a group that applies pressure to retail outlets and consumers to get them to pull/not buy products. If they run a campaign against Dragon Age they're doing it because there is optional gay sex with clothes on in a video game rated M and locked behind a glass wall. Simultaneously, there are dozens of movies and TV shows about 10 feet away in every Wal-Mart on Earth that are not locked in cupboard, that show much worse, much more and if you throw them in the DVD player it very much isn't optional.
Two wrongs, or several in this case, does not make one right (wrong in their point of view, not universally wrong)
I am sure there are far worse depictions of sex in media but that does not make this particular depiction ok (for them).
One thing that made this one stand out is that when I heard about this game I had no clue it had sex in it, gay or otherwise. So it is disguised and hidden, which makes it worse imo than a hardcore porn video that everyone can see from 10 miles away what it is.
No, you just didn't really follow the game. Bioware made it clear you could have such an encounter, with multiple npcs in fact. It's a case of you not reading much on the topic, for sure. It certainly wasn't disguised or hidden. That said, They don't owe anyone an explanation of the exact nature of the sex (as long as it's between 2 consenting adults). And they certainly built into the dialogue system choices so that you don't have to encounter any of it. I distinctly remember telling Zevran that I don't fly that way and that was the last it was ever mentioned or hinted at.
Please tell me where on the box it says that the game has gay sex in it. Do you really think an average customer spends hours reading about what the devs had said about a game before buying it?
Yamota, I don't care. Seriously. The game says lists on the ESRB warning on the freaking cover it has SEXUAL CONTENT. If a person is so stupid that they can't figure out that could be any type of sexual content between 2 consenting adults, then that's their fault for not waking up and joining the 21st century.
Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. But get the hell over trying to condemn it (it's not hurting you or forcing you to do anything, period) and trying to make like Bioware deceived anyone. They didn't. Pure and simple. Bioware is not in charge of thinking for you. You are.
The average customer better learn to read the cover of the game, see SEXUAL CONTENT, put the game back and go do some freaking research on the internet as to what type of content it is if they fear they'll see something that hurts their sensibilities.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
I dont mind watching it, I think lesbian sex is great to watch, but I do understand that there are people who does not like to watch it. Nor should they expect to in a griggin RPG.
I just find it funny that he won't address the point of the game cover tells you it has sexual content. No, Yeah, that's right, and if people want to know more about what kind of content they should then look it up on the internet. No, it's the realize I'm wrong so ignore that aspect of the debate internet forum manuver +5.
I have addressed it. I can only read that many posts you know.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
And if it were a pop-up window mid-game, I'd agree with you.
You actually have to work at it to see gay sex. It never is going to happen by accident, or in a situation where you never saw it coming.
As I said before, if you don't morally approve of that, there is an entire line of dialogue just for you.
It's a role playing game and they gave people the tools to play the role how they believe is right.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
And if it were a pop-up window mid-game, I'd agree with you.
You actually have to work at it to see gay sex. It never is going to happen by accident, or in a situation where you never saw it coming.
As I said before, if you don't morally approve of that, there is an entire line of dialogue just for you.
It's a role playing game and they gave people the tools to play the role how they believe is right.
And my point is that traditional RPGs did not give you the tool to have explicit sex, be it gay or otherwise. So one could expect to play a game and not have to deal with such things.
But yes, I see your point. If you actually have to work to get to that point then that is different. But I for one would like to see some damn media that does not use sex to sell. Sometimes I just want to watch or play something and not be exposed to sexual content, why do I have to constantly be bombarded by it in media (not saying that is the case in this game)?
I have a gf and I have sex with her. Why do I have to be exposed to that in a computer game now? It is distracting and takes away from the traditional fantasy RPG experience.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
And if it were a pop-up window mid-game, I'd agree with you.
You actually have to work at it to see gay sex. It never is going to happen by accident, or in a situation where you never saw it coming.
As I said before, if you don't morally approve of that, there is an entire line of dialogue just for you.
It's a role playing game and they gave people the tools to play the role how they believe is right.
And my point is that traditional RPGs did not give you the tool to have explicit sex, be it gay or otherwise. So one could expect to play a game and not have to deal with such things.
But yes, I see your point. If you actually have to work to get to that point then that is different. But I for one would like to see some damn media that does not use sex to sell. Sometimes I just want to watch or play something and not be exposed to sexual content, why do I have to constantly be bombarded by it in media (not saying that is the case in this game)?
I have a gf and I have sex with her. Why do I have to be exposed to that in a computer game now? It is distracting and takes away from the traditional fantasy RPG experience.
AT NO POINT in the game do you have to consent to sex with any male or female. There's more options to avoid it in the dialogue tree, than to directly engage.
The game gave people choice, enjoy the freedom.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Something I left out of the article, but perhaps will bring it back around (this is not about liberals vs. conservatives!)... The absolute and hilarious irony is that this is a group that applies pressure to retail outlets and consumers to get them to pull/not buy products. If they run a campaign against Dragon Age they're doing it because there is optional gay sex with clothes on in a video game rated M and locked behind a glass wall. Simultaneously, there are dozens of movies and TV shows about 10 feet away in every Wal-Mart on Earth that are not locked in cupboard, that show much worse, much more and if you throw them in the DVD player it very much isn't optional.
Two wrongs, or several in this case, does not make one right (wrong in their point of view, not universally wrong)
I am sure there are far worse depictions of sex in media but that does not make this particular depiction ok (for them).
One thing that made this one stand out is that when I heard about this game I had no clue it had sex in it, gay or otherwise. So it is disguised and hidden, which makes it worse imo than a hardcore porn video that everyone can see from 10 miles away what it is.
No, you just didn't really follow the game. Bioware made it clear you could have such an encounter, with multiple npcs in fact. It's a case of you not reading much on the topic, for sure. It certainly wasn't disguised or hidden. That said, They don't owe anyone an explanation of the exact nature of the sex (as long as it's between 2 consenting adults). And they certainly built into the dialogue system choices so that you don't have to encounter any of it. I distinctly remember telling Zevran that I don't fly that way and that was the last it was ever mentioned or hinted at.
Please tell me where on the box it says that the game has gay sex in it. Do you really think an average customer spends hours reading about what the devs had said about a game before buying it?
Yamota, I don't care. Seriously. The game says lists on the ESRB warning on the freaking cover it has SEXUAL CONTENT. If a person is so stupid that they can't figure out that could be any type of sexual content between 2 consenting adults, then that's their fault for not waking up and joining the 21st century.
Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. But get the hell over trying to condemn it (it's not hurting you or forcing you to do anything, period) and trying to make like Bioware deceived anyone. They didn't. Pure and simple. Bioware is not in charge of thinking for you. You are.
The average customer better learn to read the cover of the game, see SEXUAL CONTENT, put the game back and go do some freaking research on the internet as to what type of content it is if they fear they'll see something that hurts their sensibilities.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
Yeah, I realize that. And in turn those people need to be just as attentive of other's preferences as they want me to be of theirs. The point here is that you and others didn't take an extra 5 minutes to look at the game box label and add to it that consideration you so dearly want others to give you but don't give back in return and realize that in this modern world there isn't the level of hatred and secrecy put behind alternative lifestyles as it was even a few years ago. Games reflect society.
And again, I've played the game. You aren't forced into any sexual scene, ever. You actually have to build up relationship points with the character through dialogue and gifts to get them to a point to "do the deed". well, I'm not about Zevran, but "typically" males are more ready for sex at any given time than women so I would guess it's easier to bed him.
You are by all means welcome to hold on to the "one would normally" mentality if you want. But brotha, that mindset is long gone. Like I said above, you certainly don't have to like or approve, but don't kid yourself into thinking games are being made with the 1950, Johnny and Sally get married before they have sex and all you see is them walking through a door, closing it behind them with a Do Not Disturb sign on it.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
AT NO POINT in the game do you have to consent to sex with any male or female. There's more options to avoid it in the dialogue tree, than to directly engage.
The game gave people choice, enjoy the freedom.
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
You know if you're straight there's TWO options for straight sex scenes to go through. The sexually repressed CHOOSE, have a CHOICE, you can completely avoid it.
And I made that choice when deciding to play a fantasy RPG. I then expected to slay dragons, orcs, elves etc. Not engage into lesbian sex.
What times we are in that one has to be labeled as sexually repressed because one wants to play a fantasy RPG and not have lesbian sex in it. I guess in ten years there will be kiddie porn in fantasy RPGs and people not wanting that in there would also be sexually repressed.
Commercial sex in media is garbage, call me sexually repressed if you want to but for me sex is something PRIVATE.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
And if it were a pop-up window mid-game, I'd agree with you.
You actually have to work at it to see gay sex. It never is going to happen by accident, or in a situation where you never saw it coming.
As I said before, if you don't morally approve of that, there is an entire line of dialogue just for you.
It's a role playing game and they gave people the tools to play the role how they believe is right.
And my point is that traditional RPGs did not give you the tool to have explicit sex, be it gay or otherwise. So one could expect to play a game and not have to deal with such things.
But yes, I see your point. If you actually have to work to get to that point then that is different. But I for one would like to see some damn media that does not use sex to sell. Sometimes I just want to watch or play something and not be exposed to sexual content, why do I have to constantly be bombarded by it in media (not saying that is the case in this game)?
I have a gf and I have sex with her. Why do I have to be exposed to that in a computer game now? It is distracting and takes away from the traditional fantasy RPG experience.
As a reporter playing it, I knew there was gay sex, but I never bothered to ask who it was with. It wasn't what my character was going for (monogamous relationship with Morrigan, lol), and so it wasn't until much later that I even realized which character it was possible with. Maybe I am slow, but I always assumed playing through the first time that it was Alistar who would do it. The dialogue was never explicit enough that you picked up on it unless you pressed for it.
I am pretty confident if not for articles like mine or WND's, you could play the game as a heterosexual male character and never even have the idea that gay sex was an option within the party. The only time it is explicitly presented is in the brothel when you can request male or female companions, but that is never shown (the screenshot in the news image is what you see, then it fades to black), and even then if you walk into a brothel and ask for a male companion, you should be aware of what you're getting into
And rewinding to my core point in this article... If WND had published "video game full of sexual content" and complained that it had no place in a video game, I would have disagreed, but never thought more of it. I definitely wouldn't have written this article. What got things going was them focusing on male/male sex only (they were ok with lesbian sex and hetero sex apparently) and calling it "dirty." That was when they crossed a line from not wanting sex in video games (which appears to be where your at and that makes sense to me) and just gay bashing.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
AT NO POINT in the game do you have to consent to sex with any male or female. There's more options to avoid it in the dialogue tree, than to directly engage.
The game gave people choice, enjoy the freedom.
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
So.. The freedom to steal money from debtors is okay, but the freedom for a game developer to tell a story is.. Wrong? Conservative logic screws with my mind.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Why not mix it with fantasy RPG? There is sex on legends, myths and almost all human artistic creations. Most of time it is there because it is related to the base of social relationships and desires. If you want to avoid any creation related to sex, desire and human body you will avoid every Shakespeare's piece , Greek Mythology, most or art from Romantism,Classicism and Expressionism, movies from directors like David Lynch, Cronenberg, Tinto Brass, most of fictional creations related to horror etc The idea that sex is "there" only to get more money is sometimes just an illusion. Everything that is related to human will have sex on it, implicit or explicit. Tolkien's work is one of the fill fantasy creations that has no sex (in a explicit way) just becouse the author had serious issues against human desire (you can search for it), even so you can find sexuality in his work. So, in the end, the issue is not "sex on media, art and entertainment" but the lack of artistic knowledge, moral aspects and judgmental behavior most of repressed people has. And this kind of repressed behavior will always contribuit to the real sex industry not sexuality depicted as an human and expressive characterist. I can use "you" as an example (based on your words). "You" (as the moralist one) Don´t want to see sex in a natural way depicted in games, books and movies, you want sex to be secretive or confined to "traditional pornography". What you expressed is the pure example of repression.
...
Another liberal nutjob that calls me repressed. Just because I like porn to be in ehm I dont know, porn movies does not make me repressed. How is it secretive it is clearly visual to anyone that it is porn? It is the complete opposite of being secretive so that makes no sense what so ever.
However you seem to want to push porn on everyone by secretely putting it in other media where one does not expect it. Thus forcing your liberal and commercial view of sex on others. Hey newsflash for you, not everyone thinks that sex should be public, for some people (most I would say) it is something private
That is not being repressive, that is being private. You like to be public with your sexual urges then please, go ahead. But stfu about me being repressive when it is you who want to shove down commercial sex down everyones throats.
Also, are you comparing the works of Shakespear to two scantly cled lesbians having casual sex? I guess art and history has zero meaning to you and we are just animals to our sexual desires right?
And sex as base of relationships, yeah sexual relationships? You are some damaged person if you think that sex is the base of many social relationships.
And those of the things that you say I think is a complete fabrication. I dont mind sex in media as long as it is clearly specified that the media contains that. It is, again, rather you who want it to be hidden so that everyone are exposed to it.
Because if they want to watch a fantasy RPG and not have porn in it then they are repressed right? You damn liberals...
You can't technically call me a liberal ... anyway.
I didn't say you are repressed, but your words feed repression. I don't care about you, I care about your arguments.
Do you really know the work of Shakespeare? You will find much more sexuality than most modern games, also check Titus Andronicus, you will find not only sexuality but all kind of "taboos". I am not comparing the depth of a game with Shakespeare art, just the sexual contente, remember, you are the one using just one "label" for sexual expression on art/entertainment.
There is much more sex in every Shakespeare work than you will ever find in Dragon Age.
By your definition the work of Klimt and Von Stuck would be porn too.
You are confusing human creations that have sex on it (as everything human) with comercial sex.
By your words it seems you just don't have much historic and cultural knowledge. As I said, art always expressed sexuality, entertainment is by no means "pure art" but it is natural to expect that it will also express human nature.
Just remember what William Blake said " Art can never exist without naked beauty displayed. "
Sex will be public only if you want to see it, if you don't want, no one if forcing you to it. It can remain private to you, you just can't impose your decision among others. No one here is saying you should play Dragon Age your that you should expose your sexuality, you just can't judge, label or go "against" who prefer the other way.
If you don't want to see, play or watch anything with sex on it, feel free to it, the judgmental behavior is the issue.
And yes, sex is very important to every human relationship, sex is not only the coitus, but it express valours and the way someone connects to the opposite or to the same sex.
EDIT- Judgment is so present on you that you already are using an offensive and personal label on me, you call me "Another liberal nutjob " when I was polite talking to you. It is impossible to have a constructive argumentation with your attitude.
So, you have all your "arguments" against sexual exposition but are unable to respect someone who politely disagree with you? Don't tell me the "label" you used on me was a revenge for what I said when I mentioned repression...
This is just like "I want blood and violence but not exposed sex!"
AT NO POINT in the game do you have to consent to sex with any male or female. There's more options to avoid it in the dialogue tree, than to directly engage.
The game gave people choice, enjoy the freedom.
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
So.. The freedom to steal money from debtors is okay, but the freedom for a game developer to tell a story is.. Wrong? Conservative logic screws with my mind.
I'm sorry ... what? I was defending the developer here and the freedom of having gay sex.
AT NO POINT in the game do you have to consent to sex with any male or female. There's more options to avoid it in the dialogue tree, than to directly engage.
The game gave people choice, enjoy the freedom.
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
So.. The freedom to steal money from debtors is okay, but the freedom for a game developer to tell a story is.. Wrong? Conservative logic screws with my mind.
I'm sorry ... what? I was defending the developer here and the freedom of having gay sex.
It wasn't meant to be taken as an attack. I was just adding a paraphrasing to it.
Conservatives don't seem to mind slapping rubber testicles to their truck hitches, but a few polygons get grinding on screen and they're suddenly moral. The Palinization of this country is scary.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
And if it were a pop-up window mid-game, I'd agree with you.
You actually have to work at it to see gay sex. It never is going to happen by accident, or in a situation where you never saw it coming.
As I said before, if you don't morally approve of that, there is an entire line of dialogue just for you.
It's a role playing game and they gave people the tools to play the role how they believe is right.
And my point is that traditional RPGs did not give you the tool to have explicit sex, be it gay or otherwise. So one could expect to play a game and not have to deal with such things.
But yes, I see your point. If you actually have to work to get to that point then that is different. But I for one would like to see some damn media that does not use sex to sell. Sometimes I just want to watch or play something and not be exposed to sexual content, why do I have to constantly be bombarded by it in media (not saying that is the case in this game)?
I have a gf and I have sex with her. Why do I have to be exposed to that in a computer game now? It is distracting and takes away from the traditional fantasy RPG experience.
I can understand where it may do so for you. That said, love and love interests have been a part of fantasy tales forever. RPGs usually have the hero going off to save some princess from some evil magician and they live "happily ever after". They are having sex, you know. It wouldn't be happily I don't think if they weren't (though, there may be an exception or two).
It's just now, game developers, as well as other forms of media in the US, are getting less and less "shy" about sex. A large part of the rest of the world, Europe especially, is way past the point we're at here. Last time I checked, their moral fibers weren't completely unraveling. Their societies aren't crashing into ruin. They are, in fact, doing just as well as anyone else.
Again, I understand some folks don't want to see it. That's cool. For the most part games are responsible enough to allow plenty of avenues for you not to. But love/sex, crafting, combat...all of those usually take place in an RPG story, whether shown explicitly or just hinted at.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Something I left out of the article, but perhaps will bring it back around (this is not about liberals vs. conservatives!)... The absolute and hilarious irony is that this is a group that applies pressure to retail outlets and consumers to get them to pull/not buy products. If they run a campaign against Dragon Age they're doing it because there is optional gay sex with clothes on in a video game rated M and locked behind a glass wall. Simultaneously, there are dozens of movies and TV shows about 10 feet away in every Wal-Mart on Earth that are not locked in cupboard, that show much worse, much more and if you throw them in the DVD player it very much isn't optional.
Two wrongs, or several in this case, does not make one right (wrong in their point of view, not universally wrong)
I am sure there are far worse depictions of sex in media but that does not make this particular depiction ok (for them).
One thing that made this one stand out is that when I heard about this game I had no clue it had sex in it, gay or otherwise. So it is disguised and hidden, which makes it worse imo than a hardcore porn video that everyone can see from 10 miles away what it is.
No, you just didn't really follow the game. Bioware made it clear you could have such an encounter, with multiple npcs in fact. It's a case of you not reading much on the topic, for sure. It certainly wasn't disguised or hidden. That said, They don't owe anyone an explanation of the exact nature of the sex (as long as it's between 2 consenting adults). And they certainly built into the dialogue system choices so that you don't have to encounter any of it. I distinctly remember telling Zevran that I don't fly that way and that was the last it was ever mentioned or hinted at.
Please tell me where on the box it says that the game has gay sex in it. Do you really think an average customer spends hours reading about what the devs had said about a game before buying it?
Yamota, I don't care. Seriously. The game says lists on the ESRB warning on the freaking cover it has SEXUAL CONTENT. If a person is so stupid that they can't figure out that could be any type of sexual content between 2 consenting adults, then that's their fault for not waking up and joining the 21st century.
Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. But get the hell over trying to condemn it (it's not hurting you or forcing you to do anything, period) and trying to make like Bioware deceived anyone. They didn't. Pure and simple. Bioware is not in charge of thinking for you. You are.
The average customer better learn to read the cover of the game, see SEXUAL CONTENT, put the game back and go do some freaking research on the internet as to what type of content it is if they fear they'll see something that hurts their sensibilities.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
Yeah, I realize that. And in turn those people need to be just as attentive of other's preferences as they want me to be of theirs. The point here is that you and others didn't take an extra 5 minutes to look at the game box label and add to it that consideration you so dearly want others to give you but don't give back in return and realize that in this modern world there isn't the level of hatred and secrecy put behind alternative lifestyles as it was even a few years ago. Games reflect society.
And again, I've played the game. You aren't forced into any sexual scene, ever. You actually have to build up relationship points with the character through dialogue and gifts to get them to a point to "do the deed". well, I'm not about Zevran, but "typically" males are more ready for sex at any given time than women so I would guess it's easier to bed him.
You are by all means welcome to hold on to the "one would normally" mentality if you want. But brotha, that mindset is long gone. Like I said above, you certainly don't have to like or approve, but don't kid yourself into thinking games are being made with the 1950, Johnny and Sally get married before they have sex and all you see is them walking through a door, closing it behind them with a Do Not Disturb sign on it.
I label that says sexual content is in no way sufficient for this but yeah I see your point and I dont think the game should be pulled from the shelves.
However the mindset that one would normally not expect sex in RPGs is actually still valid. It is only just recently that corporations has started to sneak in explicit sexual content into RPGs to sell more copies.
The greatest fantasy works ever made, such as Tolkiens works, Dungeons of Dragons, Warhammer and so on has no or very little explicit sexual content. Heck even Conan, which has tons of references to sex and prostitutes, has almost no explicit sexual content. That is not what fantasy is about, or atleast not up unttil now.
And dont mix sexual values into this, I have no problems with pre-marital sex (I do it alot myself ). However sometimes I want to just play a game and not be exposed to sexual content, at all.
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The stupidity of the people getting all worked up over this makes me laugh
More than that. This is a game about making moral choices. The game doesn't usually say what's right or wrong, it lets you chart that course. Nothing you choose is 100% one way or the other, usually.
Thus, you can quite literally play the game as someone asexual, you can also chastise and ostracize members of your party who tell you they're inclined towards the same gender. Quite literally, an option when Zevran first reveals he goes both ways is to ask him to leave the party because you're not comfortable with that.
And ironically, the "best" option for your character in the game might well be to do that.
It's a video game about morality. Thus it presents all sides of the coin.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
My rigid moral stance? LOL
I have 100 gig of porn on my HD and I regularly have sex with people who I am not married to.
That does not make me want to have porn in a friggin computer game. Why are you trying so hard to advocate for porn in a video game?
And as for changing the view of people here? I dont care less about that. I rather am trying to defend those people who may think it is inappropriate to have porn hidden in fantasy RPGs. Because you know, most, people play fantasy RPGs for other reasons than to see sexual acts (be it gay or otherwise).
In this age, with all the sexual liberals around, corps are trying to use sex to cash in on everything and that could lead to detrimental effects on the society. Such as STDs, unwanted pregnancies and sexual assaults all of which are among the highest ever in the recorded history in most countries.
Sex is not just sex but has consequences. It is easy to forget that will all the visual depictions seen in media and now it is spreading to fantasy RPGs as well. What is next, sport games? Fifa World Soccer with the player screwing each other after the game?
I'm not advocating porn, I'm telling you it is not porn.
You miss even the simplest points ....
You dont get to tell others what is porn or not. Lesbian sex between two hot, young women is considered porn by alot of people. It may not be for you but it is for many others.
For being considered porn should have explicit nudity and that's not the case. From the dictionary: "when sexual acts are performed for a live audience, by definition it is not pornography, as the term applies to the depiction of the act, rather than the act itself. Thus, portrayals such as sex shows and striptease are not classified as pornography."
I can call porn Tomb Raider if I want to but my personal opinion doesn't change the meaning of the world.
Thats a very narrow and incorrect definition of pornopgraphy. From Merriam Webster Online dictionary (one of the largest online dictionaries)
The depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement.
Does not need to have nudity of any sort but only have the intent to cause sexual excitement. One may argue that is not the intent but two, young lesbians rolling around in the ground, kissing each other I think would be sexually arousing for most straight males.
Just a point of curiosity do you believe any sex or romance is pornography even if it is part of a story and there to make the viewer/reader more invested in the characters and story?
Does that mean for a story not to have PORN by your definition that all charters must behave as if they have no sexual organs or the slightest intrest in the opposite sex.
A point here, females are often sexually aroused by word play and flirtation more than images. For there to be no PORN the characters would have to be sexually neutered, so as to not accidentally arouse people with flirting.
I agree with you. In his definition something erotic and pornographic have the same definition and the same intention: "cause sexual excitement". Hell, even a girl dancing can get turn on to someone, that doesn't make Dirty Dancing a porno movie +_+U
I consider Worldnetdaily a very good website exposing government corruption and its failures in all its forms. The article does not surprise me as they are a Christian website. They are only writing articles based how thir political and religious view. Whether we like it or not, agree or disagree they have a right to print it or put it on the web.
Parents and Adults must make the choice themselves of what games they play and what they expose to themselves or thier children. Bottom Line.
I own Dragon Age origins and i dont play it in front of my 8 year old.
(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH raises plunger to joesph Farrah for exposing goverment corruption!)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
I wasn't even talking about the game at that point, I was talking about discussing sex. I was not even talking about you either, touchy much?
Here's the thing. Sex being depicted shouldn't be a problem, biggest reason is you have the option to avoid it. People that don't want to see it, have the option to ignore it completely. You chose to make a deal out of it, which makes you no different then the writer. If you don't like sex in games, go play a game without it. People that do, will. Accept and move on.
As for the sex tape you suggested. Only if I can sell it at 18$ a dvd.
Obviously I can choose to not play it, or not play computer games at all, or go live in a cave and not speak to anyone... but that is not the point.
The point is that if I play a fantasy game I dont expect to find porn in it. In particular I dont expect the game to give me rewards in engaging in it. Why? Because I play games not for seeing porn but to play games.
When I want to watch porn, I watch porn. I dont see any point in mixing it with fantasy RPG.
Why not mix it with fantasy RPG?
There is sex on legends, myths and almost all human artistic creations.
Most of time it is there because it is related to the base of social relationships and desires.
If you want to avoid any creation related to sex, desire and human body you will avoid every Shakespeare's piece , Greek Mythology, most or art from Romantism,Classicism and Expressionism, movies from directors like David Lynch, Cronenberg, Tinto Brass, most of fictional creations related to horror etc
The idea that sex is "there" only to get more money is sometimes just an illusion.
Everything that is related to human will have sex on it, implicit or explicit.
Tolkien's work is one of the fill fantasy creations that has no sex (in a explicit way) just becouse the author had serious issues against human desire (you can search for it), even so you can find sexuality in his work.
So, in the end, the issue is not "sex on media, art and entertainment" but the lack of artistic knowledge, moral aspects and judgmental behavior most of repressed people has. And this kind of repressed behavior will always contribuit to the real sex industry not sexuality depicted as an human and expressive characterist.
I can use "you" as an example (based on your words). "You" (as the moralist one) Don´t want to see sex in a natural way depicted in games, books and movies, you want sex to be secretive or confined to "traditional pornography". What you expressed is the pure example of repression.
...
Another liberal nutjob that calls me repressed. Just because I like porn to be in ehm I dont know, porn movies does not make me repressed. How is it secretive it is clearly visual to anyone that it is porn? It is the complete opposite of being secretive so that makes no sense what so ever.
However you seem to want to push porn on everyone by secretely putting it in other media where one does not expect it. Thus forcing your liberal and commercial view of sex on others. Hey newsflash for you, not everyone thinks that sex should be public, for some people (most I would say) it is something private
That is not being repressive, that is being private. You like to be public with your sexual urges then please, go ahead. But stfu about me being repressive when it is you who want to shove down commercial sex down everyones throats.
Also, are you comparing the works of Shakespear to two scantly cled lesbians having casual sex in a second grade comercial computer game? I guess art and history has zero meaning to you and we are just animals to our sexual desires right?
And sex as base of relationships, yeah sexual relationships? You are some damaged person if you think that sex is the base of many social relationships.
And those of the things that you say I think is a complete fabrication. I dont mind sex in media as long as it is clearly specified that the media contains that. It is, again, rather you who want it to be hidden so that everyone are exposed to it.
Because if they want to watch a fantasy RPG and not have porn in it then they are repressed right? You damn liberals...
My gaming blog
Christ Yamota, give it up. This is not porn and it isn't "hidden" any more then the sex in Fable was.
I just find it funny that he won't address the point of the game cover tells you it has sexual content. No, Yeah, that's right, and if people want to know more about what kind of content they should then look it up on the internet.
No, it's the realize I'm wrong so ignore that aspect of the debate internet forum manuver +5.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Two wrongs, or several in this case, does not make one right (wrong in their point of view, not universally wrong)
I am sure there are far worse depictions of sex in media but that does not make this particular depiction ok (for them).
One thing that made this one stand out is that when I heard about this game I had no clue it had sex in it, gay or otherwise. So it is disguised and hidden, which makes it worse imo than a hardcore porn video that everyone can see from 10 miles away what it is.
No, you just didn't really follow the game. Bioware made it clear you could have such an encounter, with multiple npcs in fact. It's a case of you not reading much on the topic, for sure. It certainly wasn't disguised or hidden. That said, They don't owe anyone an explanation of the exact nature of the sex (as long as it's between 2 consenting adults). And they certainly built into the dialogue system choices so that you don't have to encounter any of it. I distinctly remember telling Zevran that I don't fly that way and that was the last it was ever mentioned or hinted at.
Please tell me where on the box it says that the game has gay sex in it. Do you really think an average customer spends hours reading about what the devs had said about a game before buying it?
Yamota, I don't care. Seriously. The game says lists on the ESRB warning on the freaking cover it has SEXUAL CONTENT. If a person is so stupid that they can't figure out that could be any type of sexual content between 2 consenting adults, then that's their fault for not waking up and joining the 21st century.
Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. But get the hell over trying to condemn it (it's not hurting you or forcing you to do anything, period) and trying to make like Bioware deceived anyone. They didn't. Pure and simple. Bioware is not in charge of thinking for you. You are.
The average customer better learn to read the cover of the game, see SEXUAL CONTENT, put the game back and go do some freaking research on the internet as to what type of content it is if they fear they'll see something that hurts their sensibilities.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
I dont mind watching it, I think lesbian sex is great to watch, but I do understand that there are people who does not like to watch it. Nor should they expect to in a griggin RPG.
My gaming blog
I have addressed it. I can only read that many posts you know.
My gaming blog
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
And if it were a pop-up window mid-game, I'd agree with you.
You actually have to work at it to see gay sex. It never is going to happen by accident, or in a situation where you never saw it coming.
As I said before, if you don't morally approve of that, there is an entire line of dialogue just for you.
It's a role playing game and they gave people the tools to play the role how they believe is right.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
sigh, we are living in the 21st century !
so for what......... its a controversey ?
Thats why, 3feel will never find a "western" investor
greetings
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
And if it were a pop-up window mid-game, I'd agree with you.
You actually have to work at it to see gay sex. It never is going to happen by accident, or in a situation where you never saw it coming.
As I said before, if you don't morally approve of that, there is an entire line of dialogue just for you.
It's a role playing game and they gave people the tools to play the role how they believe is right.
And my point is that traditional RPGs did not give you the tool to have explicit sex, be it gay or otherwise. So one could expect to play a game and not have to deal with such things.
But yes, I see your point. If you actually have to work to get to that point then that is different. But I for one would like to see some damn media that does not use sex to sell. Sometimes I just want to watch or play something and not be exposed to sexual content, why do I have to constantly be bombarded by it in media (not saying that is the case in this game)?
I have a gf and I have sex with her. Why do I have to be exposed to that in a computer game now? It is distracting and takes away from the traditional fantasy RPG experience.
My gaming blog
You know if you're straight there's TWO options for straight sex scenes to go through.
The sexually repressed CHOOSE, have a CHOICE, you can completely avoid it.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
And if it were a pop-up window mid-game, I'd agree with you.
You actually have to work at it to see gay sex. It never is going to happen by accident, or in a situation where you never saw it coming.
As I said before, if you don't morally approve of that, there is an entire line of dialogue just for you.
It's a role playing game and they gave people the tools to play the role how they believe is right.
And my point is that traditional RPGs did not give you the tool to have explicit sex, be it gay or otherwise. So one could expect to play a game and not have to deal with such things.
But yes, I see your point. If you actually have to work to get to that point then that is different. But I for one would like to see some damn media that does not use sex to sell. Sometimes I just want to watch or play something and not be exposed to sexual content, why do I have to constantly be bombarded by it in media (not saying that is the case in this game)?
I have a gf and I have sex with her. Why do I have to be exposed to that in a computer game now? It is distracting and takes away from the traditional fantasy RPG experience.
AT NO POINT in the game do you have to consent to sex with any male or female. There's more options to avoid it in the dialogue tree, than to directly engage.
The game gave people choice, enjoy the freedom.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Two wrongs, or several in this case, does not make one right (wrong in their point of view, not universally wrong)
I am sure there are far worse depictions of sex in media but that does not make this particular depiction ok (for them).
One thing that made this one stand out is that when I heard about this game I had no clue it had sex in it, gay or otherwise. So it is disguised and hidden, which makes it worse imo than a hardcore porn video that everyone can see from 10 miles away what it is.
No, you just didn't really follow the game. Bioware made it clear you could have such an encounter, with multiple npcs in fact. It's a case of you not reading much on the topic, for sure. It certainly wasn't disguised or hidden. That said, They don't owe anyone an explanation of the exact nature of the sex (as long as it's between 2 consenting adults). And they certainly built into the dialogue system choices so that you don't have to encounter any of it. I distinctly remember telling Zevran that I don't fly that way and that was the last it was ever mentioned or hinted at.
Please tell me where on the box it says that the game has gay sex in it. Do you really think an average customer spends hours reading about what the devs had said about a game before buying it?
Yamota, I don't care. Seriously. The game says lists on the ESRB warning on the freaking cover it has SEXUAL CONTENT. If a person is so stupid that they can't figure out that could be any type of sexual content between 2 consenting adults, then that's their fault for not waking up and joining the 21st century.
Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. But get the hell over trying to condemn it (it's not hurting you or forcing you to do anything, period) and trying to make like Bioware deceived anyone. They didn't. Pure and simple. Bioware is not in charge of thinking for you. You are.
The average customer better learn to read the cover of the game, see SEXUAL CONTENT, put the game back and go do some freaking research on the internet as to what type of content it is if they fear they'll see something that hurts their sensibilities.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
Yeah, I realize that. And in turn those people need to be just as attentive of other's preferences as they want me to be of theirs. The point here is that you and others didn't take an extra 5 minutes to look at the game box label and add to it that consideration you so dearly want others to give you but don't give back in return and realize that in this modern world there isn't the level of hatred and secrecy put behind alternative lifestyles as it was even a few years ago. Games reflect society.
And again, I've played the game. You aren't forced into any sexual scene, ever. You actually have to build up relationship points with the character through dialogue and gifts to get them to a point to "do the deed". well, I'm not about Zevran, but "typically" males are more ready for sex at any given time than women so I would guess it's easier to bed him.
You are by all means welcome to hold on to the "one would normally" mentality if you want. But brotha, that mindset is long gone. Like I said above, you certainly don't have to like or approve, but don't kid yourself into thinking games are being made with the 1950, Johnny and Sally get married before they have sex and all you see is them walking through a door, closing it behind them with a Do Not Disturb sign on it.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
REALITY CHECK
And I made that choice when deciding to play a fantasy RPG. I then expected to slay dragons, orcs, elves etc. Not engage into lesbian sex.
What times we are in that one has to be labeled as sexually repressed because one wants to play a fantasy RPG and not have lesbian sex in it. I guess in ten years there will be kiddie porn in fantasy RPGs and people not wanting that in there would also be sexually repressed.
Commercial sex in media is garbage, call me sexually repressed if you want to but for me sex is something PRIVATE.
My gaming blog
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
And if it were a pop-up window mid-game, I'd agree with you.
You actually have to work at it to see gay sex. It never is going to happen by accident, or in a situation where you never saw it coming.
As I said before, if you don't morally approve of that, there is an entire line of dialogue just for you.
It's a role playing game and they gave people the tools to play the role how they believe is right.
And my point is that traditional RPGs did not give you the tool to have explicit sex, be it gay or otherwise. So one could expect to play a game and not have to deal with such things.
But yes, I see your point. If you actually have to work to get to that point then that is different. But I for one would like to see some damn media that does not use sex to sell. Sometimes I just want to watch or play something and not be exposed to sexual content, why do I have to constantly be bombarded by it in media (not saying that is the case in this game)?
I have a gf and I have sex with her. Why do I have to be exposed to that in a computer game now? It is distracting and takes away from the traditional fantasy RPG experience.
As a reporter playing it, I knew there was gay sex, but I never bothered to ask who it was with. It wasn't what my character was going for (monogamous relationship with Morrigan, lol), and so it wasn't until much later that I even realized which character it was possible with. Maybe I am slow, but I always assumed playing through the first time that it was Alistar who would do it. The dialogue was never explicit enough that you picked up on it unless you pressed for it.
I am pretty confident if not for articles like mine or WND's, you could play the game as a heterosexual male character and never even have the idea that gay sex was an option within the party. The only time it is explicitly presented is in the brothel when you can request male or female companions, but that is never shown (the screenshot in the news image is what you see, then it fades to black), and even then if you walk into a brothel and ask for a male companion, you should be aware of what you're getting into
And rewinding to my core point in this article... If WND had published "video game full of sexual content" and complained that it had no place in a video game, I would have disagreed, but never thought more of it. I definitely wouldn't have written this article. What got things going was them focusing on male/male sex only (they were ok with lesbian sex and hetero sex apparently) and calling it "dirty." That was when they crossed a line from not wanting sex in video games (which appears to be where your at and that makes sense to me) and just gay bashing.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
So.. The freedom to steal money from debtors is okay, but the freedom for a game developer to tell a story is.. Wrong? Conservative logic screws with my mind.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Another liberal nutjob that calls me repressed. Just because I like porn to be in ehm I dont know, porn movies does not make me repressed. How is it secretive it is clearly visual to anyone that it is porn? It is the complete opposite of being secretive so that makes no sense what so ever.
However you seem to want to push porn on everyone by secretely putting it in other media where one does not expect it. Thus forcing your liberal and commercial view of sex on others. Hey newsflash for you, not everyone thinks that sex should be public, for some people (most I would say) it is something private
That is not being repressive, that is being private. You like to be public with your sexual urges then please, go ahead. But stfu about me being repressive when it is you who want to shove down commercial sex down everyones throats.
Also, are you comparing the works of Shakespear to two scantly cled lesbians having casual sex? I guess art and history has zero meaning to you and we are just animals to our sexual desires right?
And sex as base of relationships, yeah sexual relationships? You are some damaged person if you think that sex is the base of many social relationships.
And those of the things that you say I think is a complete fabrication. I dont mind sex in media as long as it is clearly specified that the media contains that. It is, again, rather you who want it to be hidden so that everyone are exposed to it.
Because if they want to watch a fantasy RPG and not have porn in it then they are repressed right? You damn liberals...
You can't technically call me a liberal ... anyway.
I didn't say you are repressed, but your words feed repression. I don't care about you, I care about your arguments.
Do you really know the work of Shakespeare? You will find much more sexuality than most modern games, also check Titus Andronicus, you will find not only sexuality but all kind of "taboos". I am not comparing the depth of a game with Shakespeare art, just the sexual contente, remember, you are the one using just one "label" for sexual expression on art/entertainment.
There is much more sex in every Shakespeare work than you will ever find in Dragon Age.
By your definition the work of Klimt and Von Stuck would be porn too.
You are confusing human creations that have sex on it (as everything human) with comercial sex.
By your words it seems you just don't have much historic and cultural knowledge. As I said, art always expressed sexuality, entertainment is by no means "pure art" but it is natural to expect that it will also express human nature.
Just remember what William Blake said " Art can never exist without naked beauty displayed. "
Sex will be public only if you want to see it, if you don't want, no one if forcing you to it. It can remain private to you, you just can't impose your decision among others. No one here is saying you should play Dragon Age your that you should expose your sexuality, you just can't judge, label or go "against" who prefer the other way.
If you don't want to see, play or watch anything with sex on it, feel free to it, the judgmental behavior is the issue.
And yes, sex is very important to every human relationship, sex is not only the coitus, but it express valours and the way someone connects to the opposite or to the same sex.
EDIT- Judgment is so present on you that you already are using an offensive and personal label on me, you call me "Another liberal nutjob " when I was polite talking to you. It is impossible to have a constructive argumentation with your attitude.
So, you have all your "arguments" against sexual exposition but are unable to respect someone who politely disagree with you? Don't tell me the "label" you used on me was a revenge for what I said when I mentioned repression...
This is just like "I want blood and violence but not exposed sex!"
The choice to avoid it and engage in it isn't something you can change.
Deal with it.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
So.. The freedom to steal money from debtors is okay, but the freedom for a game developer to tell a story is.. Wrong? Conservative logic screws with my mind.
I'm sorry ... what? I was defending the developer here and the freedom of having gay sex.
REALITY CHECK
People do not want freedom, people want restrictions and government policies imposed by liberals in order to increase the power of their reign coupled with higher taxations. People want to be blindly lead by hand.
So.. The freedom to steal money from debtors is okay, but the freedom for a game developer to tell a story is.. Wrong? Conservative logic screws with my mind.
I'm sorry ... what? I was defending the developer here and the freedom of having gay sex.
It wasn't meant to be taken as an attack. I was just adding a paraphrasing to it.
Conservatives don't seem to mind slapping rubber testicles to their truck hitches, but a few polygons get grinding on screen and they're suddenly moral. The Palinization of this country is scary.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
And if it were a pop-up window mid-game, I'd agree with you.
You actually have to work at it to see gay sex. It never is going to happen by accident, or in a situation where you never saw it coming.
As I said before, if you don't morally approve of that, there is an entire line of dialogue just for you.
It's a role playing game and they gave people the tools to play the role how they believe is right.
And my point is that traditional RPGs did not give you the tool to have explicit sex, be it gay or otherwise. So one could expect to play a game and not have to deal with such things.
But yes, I see your point. If you actually have to work to get to that point then that is different. But I for one would like to see some damn media that does not use sex to sell. Sometimes I just want to watch or play something and not be exposed to sexual content, why do I have to constantly be bombarded by it in media (not saying that is the case in this game)?
I have a gf and I have sex with her. Why do I have to be exposed to that in a computer game now? It is distracting and takes away from the traditional fantasy RPG experience.
I can understand where it may do so for you. That said, love and love interests have been a part of fantasy tales forever. RPGs usually have the hero going off to save some princess from some evil magician and they live "happily ever after". They are having sex, you know. It wouldn't be happily I don't think if they weren't (though, there may be an exception or two).
It's just now, game developers, as well as other forms of media in the US, are getting less and less "shy" about sex. A large part of the rest of the world, Europe especially, is way past the point we're at here. Last time I checked, their moral fibers weren't completely unraveling. Their societies aren't crashing into ruin. They are, in fact, doing just as well as anyone else.
Again, I understand some folks don't want to see it. That's cool. For the most part games are responsible enough to allow plenty of avenues for you not to. But love/sex, crafting, combat...all of those usually take place in an RPG story, whether shown explicitly or just hinted at.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Two wrongs, or several in this case, does not make one right (wrong in their point of view, not universally wrong)
I am sure there are far worse depictions of sex in media but that does not make this particular depiction ok (for them).
One thing that made this one stand out is that when I heard about this game I had no clue it had sex in it, gay or otherwise. So it is disguised and hidden, which makes it worse imo than a hardcore porn video that everyone can see from 10 miles away what it is.
No, you just didn't really follow the game. Bioware made it clear you could have such an encounter, with multiple npcs in fact. It's a case of you not reading much on the topic, for sure. It certainly wasn't disguised or hidden. That said, They don't owe anyone an explanation of the exact nature of the sex (as long as it's between 2 consenting adults). And they certainly built into the dialogue system choices so that you don't have to encounter any of it. I distinctly remember telling Zevran that I don't fly that way and that was the last it was ever mentioned or hinted at.
Please tell me where on the box it says that the game has gay sex in it. Do you really think an average customer spends hours reading about what the devs had said about a game before buying it?
Yamota, I don't care. Seriously. The game says lists on the ESRB warning on the freaking cover it has SEXUAL CONTENT. If a person is so stupid that they can't figure out that could be any type of sexual content between 2 consenting adults, then that's their fault for not waking up and joining the 21st century.
Doesn't mean you have to like it or agree with it. But get the hell over trying to condemn it (it's not hurting you or forcing you to do anything, period) and trying to make like Bioware deceived anyone. They didn't. Pure and simple. Bioware is not in charge of thinking for you. You are.
The average customer better learn to read the cover of the game, see SEXUAL CONTENT, put the game back and go do some freaking research on the internet as to what type of content it is if they fear they'll see something that hurts their sensibilities.
Believe it or not, there are many people who does not equate sexual content to gay sex.
But that is beside the point. One would normally not expect to find gay sex in a fantasy RPG and there are still people who do not enjoy watching gay sex, no matter how political correct it is.
Yeah, I realize that. And in turn those people need to be just as attentive of other's preferences as they want me to be of theirs. The point here is that you and others didn't take an extra 5 minutes to look at the game box label and add to it that consideration you so dearly want others to give you but don't give back in return and realize that in this modern world there isn't the level of hatred and secrecy put behind alternative lifestyles as it was even a few years ago. Games reflect society.
And again, I've played the game. You aren't forced into any sexual scene, ever. You actually have to build up relationship points with the character through dialogue and gifts to get them to a point to "do the deed". well, I'm not about Zevran, but "typically" males are more ready for sex at any given time than women so I would guess it's easier to bed him.
You are by all means welcome to hold on to the "one would normally" mentality if you want. But brotha, that mindset is long gone. Like I said above, you certainly don't have to like or approve, but don't kid yourself into thinking games are being made with the 1950, Johnny and Sally get married before they have sex and all you see is them walking through a door, closing it behind them with a Do Not Disturb sign on it.
I label that says sexual content is in no way sufficient for this but yeah I see your point and I dont think the game should be pulled from the shelves.
However the mindset that one would normally not expect sex in RPGs is actually still valid. It is only just recently that corporations has started to sneak in explicit sexual content into RPGs to sell more copies.
The greatest fantasy works ever made, such as Tolkiens works, Dungeons of Dragons, Warhammer and so on has no or very little explicit sexual content. Heck even Conan, which has tons of references to sex and prostitutes, has almost no explicit sexual content. That is not what fantasy is about, or atleast not up unttil now.
And dont mix sexual values into this, I have no problems with pre-marital sex (I do it alot myself
). However sometimes I want to just play a game and not be exposed to sexual content, at all.
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