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The cheapness of WoWs PVE instances

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  • pojungpojung Member Posts: 810
    Originally posted by Archemorous


    Now i know you never went to stratholme. And yes, those rats in the alleys could kill you back in the day, if you werent careful.
    Also, no keys on wow's instances? Dont make me laugh troll-boy. If there is something that wow is choking on, is instance keys. Dire Maul anyone? SM? BRD? Should I continue?

     

    You're living in a time capsule. Fast-forward about 3 years.

    That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
    We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
    So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
    - MMO_Doubter

  • GinkeqGinkeq Member Posts: 615
    Originally posted by Daffid011


    I enjoyed the pve content in everquest, but that was when there wasn't any real competition on the market. 
    When people bark about how the first real 3d mmo is the best design on the market I chuckle a little bit. 
     
     
    Ginkeq, if you can't support your viewpoints without resorting to insulting millions of people you have never met, then I think you don't really have a very strong point in the first place.  It doesn't matter what anyone says to you, because you always stoop to the same stupidity of "wow players suck". 
     

     

    I'm not saying they suck, but the content has been dumbed down severely since my guild last played WoW.

    The world I am from is one that does most of the World Firsts.  Who do you think opened up AQ40 on my server? My guild.  Who was clearing Naxx40 back when most WoW guilds were wiping in MC40 and BWL entrance trash? Me

    Now there is no challenge left in WoW.  A game that just provides lots of welfare epics to everyone.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by Horusra


    Everyone knows that EQ1's epic content of standing in one spot for x hours killing x mob as it spawns till you level is way more engrossing and adds to the realism of a world over WoW's use of doing x number of quests to reach x level.  Come on...how can you even compare the two.  I mean really. 

     

    /thread

  • ArchemorousArchemorous Member Posts: 197
    Originally posted by Ginkeq

    Originally posted by Archemorous

    Originally posted by Ginkeq

    Originally posted by Axehilt


    Apparently some people measure content quality by travel time, while others measure it by, well, content quality.

     

    In EQ zones you interact with things, in WoW zones you may have more polished graphics since these zones are 9 years newer than EQ's.  But that doesn't change the fact you never interact with the zones "content quality", which is basically bosses that are sitting at the entrance of these raid zones waiting to be killed. 

    What  kind of quality are WoW zone when you don't clear anything or require effort to get to a boss?  Like half of WoWs instances are just bosses sitting there in empty zones

     

     

    Give me a specific example. where you have to interact with something other than monsters. And I never fought 'bosses' in wow that stood at the entrance. There is always trash and some kind of mechanic preventing you from getting to them without fighting through something.

     

    Onyxia, Archavon, etc.  The other instances have some clearing but it's not much.  

    How many more instances fall into this 'etc' exactly? I have the feeling... none.

    In BWL40, sometimes clearing trash could be harder than the actual bosses.  They've done away with stuff like that it seems.  If there is trash, it's trivial trash that is not difficult.

    What happened to trash mobs that were near boss-level difficulty?

     

    As for a specific example: Things like Kelethin.  Elevators that you can click on & trigger.  

    So calling an elevator down and pushing a button to go up is better than just having an elevator with no buttons, but that can actually kill you? (SSC)

    Skyshrine had stuff like that, the maze area.  When you step on a certain area it warps you to another point in the zone.  You wouldn't reach the boss if you didn't know your way through the maze.  

    lets go to scholomance. Last boss. He teleports random people into locked rooms the player has to kill mobs to get out of. So are you saying that getting lost is more 'pro' than fighting your way out of a place you're teleported to?

    Or you have to collect keys to progress through a zone, plane of sky, Ssra Temple.

     

     

     

     

    Keep going.

    image

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662

    I think some of you or me are getting the OP message wrong.

    For me he's meaning that today's dungeons are small and no longer have that discovery feeling because it's almost like you have a red carpet that leads you to the bosses which is somehow true in most dungeons.

    There are dungeons in wow that are big but there are a lot of them that aren't so big too.

    So if what I got from the OP is what he meant I agree a bit on that and for those that keep on saying EQ graphics suck or that the dungeon is empty and such the video meant to show you how big of a dungeon that place was not the amount of mobs/bosses inside it.

     


  • ArchemorousArchemorous Member Posts: 197
    Originally posted by pojung

    Originally posted by Archemorous


    Now i know you never went to stratholme. And yes, those rats in the alleys could kill you back in the day, if you werent careful.
    Also, no keys on wow's instances? Dont make me laugh troll-boy. If there is something that wow is choking on, is instance keys. Dire Maul anyone? SM? BRD? Should I continue?

     

    You're living in a time capsule. Fast-forward about 3 years.

     

    Thats cute. The examples I mentioned are still in the game and are viewed as some of the best instance experiences in wow. They exist today and can be experienced today.

    image

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411

    Keys....Shadow Labytrinth, Shattered Halls, tempest Keep, Karazhan...

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by Ginkeq

    Originally posted by Axehilt


    Apparently some people measure content quality by travel time, while others measure it by, well, content quality.

    In EQ zones you interact with things, in WoW zones you may have more polished graphics since these zones are 9 years newer than EQ's.  But that doesn't change the fact you never interact with the zones "content quality", which is basically bosses that are sitting at the entrance of these raid zones waiting to be killed. 

    What  kind of quality are WoW zone when you don't clear anything or require effort to get to a boss?  Like half of WoWs instances are just bosses sitting there in empty zones



    A game which focuses on the interesting fights instead of the shallow trash fights?  Man you're right that's sounds terrible!

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by Ginkeq

    Originally posted by Daffid011


    I enjoyed the pve content in everquest, but that was when there wasn't any real competition on the market. 
    When people bark about how the first real 3d mmo is the best design on the market I chuckle a little bit. 
     
     
    Ginkeq, if you can't support your viewpoints without resorting to insulting millions of people you have never met, then I think you don't really have a very strong point in the first place.  It doesn't matter what anyone says to you, because you always stoop to the same stupidity of "wow players suck". 
     

     

    I'm not saying they suck, but the content has been dumbed down severely since my guild last played WoW.

    The world I am from is one that does most of the World Firsts.  Who do you think opened up AQ40 on my server? My guild.  Who was clearing Naxx40 back when most WoW guilds were wiping in MC40 and BWL entrance trash? Me

    Now there is no challenge left in WoW.  A game that just provides lots of welfare epics to everyone.

    So lets see your character with all the hard modes done.

    In all honesty that is what happens in games that are multiple years old.  The game hasn't gotten easier, you have just become accustomed to the mechanics.  There are only so many ways to challenge players with moving, healing, tanking, adds, etc.  The game becomes second nature.

    Just like everquest did.  The game got simple and I was in a guild doing world firsts.  In my opinion EQ was far more simple than wow was, because the raid was centered around a few smart people and the majority could be mouth breathers who just needed to spam lure spells or whatever other awesome tactic there was.  EQ raiding was little more than tank/spank zerg mechanics that any group of people could, and did, do.

     

     

  • BallisticaBallistica Member Posts: 19
    Originally posted by Lansid

    Originally posted by Archemorous


    Have you tried replacing some of the hate in your life with love?

    QFT

    www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/userThreads/649462

    So much rage...

     

    Owned.

    image
  • GinkeqGinkeq Member Posts: 615
    Originally posted by Daffid011

    Originally posted by Ginkeq

    Originally posted by Daffid011


    I enjoyed the pve content in everquest, but that was when there wasn't any real competition on the market. 
    When people bark about how the first real 3d mmo is the best design on the market I chuckle a little bit. 
     
     
    Ginkeq, if you can't support your viewpoints without resorting to insulting millions of people you have never met, then I think you don't really have a very strong point in the first place.  It doesn't matter what anyone says to you, because you always stoop to the same stupidity of "wow players suck". 
     

     

    I'm not saying they suck, but the content has been dumbed down severely since my guild last played WoW.

    The world I am from is one that does most of the World Firsts.  Who do you think opened up AQ40 on my server? My guild.  Who was clearing Naxx40 back when most WoW guilds were wiping in MC40 and BWL entrance trash? Me

    Now there is no challenge left in WoW.  A game that just provides lots of welfare epics to everyone.

    So lets see your character with all the hard modes done.

    In all honesty that is what happens in games that are multiple years old.  The game hasn't gotten easier, you have just become accustomed to the mechanics.  There are only so many ways to challenge players with moving, healing, tanking, adds, etc.  The game becomes second nature.

    Just like everquest did.  The game got simple and I was in a guild doing world firsts.  In my opinion EQ was far more simple than wow was, because the raid was centered around a few smart people and the majority could be mouth breathers who just needed to spam lure spells or whatever other awesome tactic there was.  EQ raiding was little more than tank/spank zerg mechanics that any group of people could, and did, do.

     

     

     



    I dunno, in EQ it's pretty easy to wipe your whole raid, and CRing isn't as easy as it was in WoW, where you are in ghost form and get infinite retries.

    For instance, RZ encounter required: Lots of high DPS rangers, good healing, smart enchanters, a good tank.  There are many ways to wipe there.  If an enchanter dies your whole raid might wipe.  Games like EQ required everyone to play their best.  You can't pull agro, can't train your raid, can't die, can't miss a heal.  There are just more ways to wipe in EQ's raids.  

    I dont know if you've ever raided Caprin in CoD (EQ).  If one person dies in that raid, 4 skeletons spawn.  Every time someone times, 4 more skeletons.  So if you have newbies in your raid pulling agro and dying, your whole raid is going to go down.

    Name something in WoW where everyone has to play their best to succeed?  I've been through their raid zones where the tanks and DPS die and a non-tank takes over, and you still succeed, because the content is trivial and does not require any effort anymore.  People can just play like shit and still win, that's not how it should be.

  • ThenariusThenarius Member Posts: 1,106

    Ginkeq, I find your hypocrisy rather ironic.

    I'd expect more from a 23 years old, you should know that nobody in the gaming industry gives a damn about your opinion.

    You don't care about difficulty, since most of WoW's hardmodes are far harder than anything before AQ40 and Nef.

    All you care about is how a casual player couldn't do anything and how you could flex your epeen in vanilla. Now, that everyone got decent epics, your little virtual sense of achievement and pride got crushed.

    Too bad, if you ever played for the sake of guild competition and fun, you wouldn't have to deal with that. Instead, you played it like it was your life. Well, too bad for you.

  • coffeecoffee Member Posts: 2,007
    Originally posted by Ginkeq

    Originally posted by Daffid011

    Originally posted by Ginkeq

    Originally posted by Daffid011


    I enjoyed the pve content in everquest, but that was when there wasn't any real competition on the market. 
    When people bark about how the first real 3d mmo is the best design on the market I chuckle a little bit. 
     
     
    Ginkeq, if you can't support your viewpoints without resorting to insulting millions of people you have never met, then I think you don't really have a very strong point in the first place.  It doesn't matter what anyone says to you, because you always stoop to the same stupidity of "wow players suck". 
     

     

    I'm not saying they suck, but the content has been dumbed down severely since my guild last played WoW.

    The world I am from is one that does most of the World Firsts.  Who do you think opened up AQ40 on my server? My guild.  Who was clearing Naxx40 back when most WoW guilds were wiping in MC40 and BWL entrance trash? Me

    Now there is no challenge left in WoW.  A game that just provides lots of welfare epics to everyone.

    So lets see your character with all the hard modes done.

    In all honesty that is what happens in games that are multiple years old.  The game hasn't gotten easier, you have just become accustomed to the mechanics.  There are only so many ways to challenge players with moving, healing, tanking, adds, etc.  The game becomes second nature.

    Just like everquest did.  The game got simple and I was in a guild doing world firsts.  In my opinion EQ was far more simple than wow was, because the raid was centered around a few smart people and the majority could be mouth breathers who just needed to spam lure spells or whatever other awesome tactic there was.  EQ raiding was little more than tank/spank zerg mechanics that any group of people could, and did, do.

     

     

     



    I dunno, in EQ it's pretty easy to wipe your whole raid, and CRing isn't as easy as it was in WoW, where you are in ghost form and get infinite retries.

    For instance, RZ encounter required: Lots of high DPS rangers, good healing, smart enchanters, a good tank.  There are many ways to wipe there.  If an enchanter dies your whole raid might wipe.  Games like EQ required everyone to play their best.  You can't pull agro, can't train your raid, can't die, can't miss a heal.  There are just more ways to wipe in EQ's raids.  

    I dont know if you've ever raided Caprin in CoD (EQ).  If one person dies in that raid, 4 skeletons spawn.  Every time someone times, 4 more skeletons.  So if you have newbies in your raid pulling agro and dying, your whole raid is going to go down.

    Name something in WoW where everyone has to play their best to succeed?  I've been through their raid zones where the tanks and DPS die and a non-tank takes over, and you still succeed, because the content is trivial and does not require any effort anymore.  People can just play like shit and still win, that's not how it should be.

    Ok you've never played WoW.. and blue is proof. End

    If the MT dies an OT might be-able to pick up the boss if he and the healers are on the ball but then who takes over the OT role?

     

    image

  • ArchemorousArchemorous Member Posts: 197
    Originally posted by Ginkeq



     
    For instance, (...)

     

    kek (keq) =P

    image

  • ThenariusThenarius Member Posts: 1,106
    Originally posted by Ginkeq



    I dont know if you've ever raided Caprin in CoD (EQ).  If one person dies in that raid, 4 skeletons spawn.  Every time someone times, 4 more skeletons.  So if you have newbies in your raid pulling agro and dying, your whole raid is going to go down.
     

    So was Archimonde. If you ever played WoW, you would have known this.

  • GinkeqGinkeq Member Posts: 615
    Originally posted by bloodaxes


    I think some of you or me are getting the OP message wrong.
    For me he's meaning that today's dungeons are small and no longer have that discovery feeling because it's almost like you have a red carpet that leads you to the bosses which is somehow true in most dungeons.
    There are dungeons in wow that are big but there are a lot of them that aren't so big too.
    So if what I got from the OP is what he meant I agree a bit on that and for those that keep on saying EQ graphics suck or that the dungeon is empty and such the video meant to show you how big of a dungeon that place was not the amount of mobs/bosses inside it.
     

     

    Exactly, it's gonna be 2010 soon, and MMORPGs are providing these cheap and small instances still.  EQ is from the 90s, and the zones were better designed and required more thought and effort than the zones that companies like Blizzard are producing.

    Why can't Blizzard just make massive, well designed zones with lots of content?  

    It's not about graphics, it's about thought.  There is no thought that goes into making zones like Ulduar.



    I'm not bashin WoW because it is popular, there is just no challenge in it anymore.  It used to be half-decent before Blizzard sold out to dumb players.

     

  • rafaelrehnrafaelrehn Member Posts: 235
    Originally posted by Lansid

    Originally posted by Archemorous


    Have you tried replacing some of the hate in your life with love?

    QFT

    www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/userThreads/649462

    So much rage...

    Ginkeq needs a female companion other than his mom and/or to leave the garage/cellar he is living in at least once a month

    and yes OUCH owned by the search function

  • GinkeqGinkeq Member Posts: 615
    Originally posted by Thenarius

    Originally posted by Ginkeq



    I dont know if you've ever raided Caprin in CoD (EQ).  If one person dies in that raid, 4 skeletons spawn.  Every time someone times, 4 more skeletons.  So if you have newbies in your raid pulling agro and dying, your whole raid is going to go down.
     

    So was Archimonde. If you ever played WoW, you would have known this.

     

    I played before they got rid of 40 mans, as I've said.  I tried it after they added their stupid 25 mans which I cleared within weeks of returning, and got on top of their pointless and unbalanced arena system.  Then after beating WoW after returning for a month, I quit.

    They've only dumbed it down since I've last played, so it's not worth revisiting that game.

    Sorry if I don't play trivial and brainless MMORPGs like WoW anymore... Maybe if they had less welfare epics I would have liked it, and maybe World PVP, and decent zones that were challenging.

  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,254

    My last day in EQ:

    Began gathering at raid at 8:30 am PST.

    Raid fully gathered by 11:15 am.

    Half of raid wiped en route about 11:30 (some not invis, some afk along way, etc.)

    Raid re-grouped alive and buffed at zone entrance at 12:10.

    Begin raid.

    At 1:15 uberguild #2 enters and trains our guild.

    CR, re-buffed by 2:20 pm.

    Uberguild #2 already killed first boss - on to second boss.

    Arrive at second boss by 3 pm.

    Uberguild #2 trains us again, and kills second boss.

    At 4:20 pm, after CR, while rebuffing, uberguild #3 is gathering at zone in.

    Guild leader asks if we should pick a second target.......

    I log out forever.

    You know what is similar about EQ and WoW looking at the above scenario? Absolutely nothing - thank God.

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411

    why even fight about this...it is odvious that when WoW came out that EQ was so superior that people left WoW in droves to play EQ for its design, content, and excellent gameplay.  Even today EQ stands as the pillar of membership that all other games strive for.  Millions of people can not be wrong about what is fun to play and those millions have choosen EQ.  Till those millions start to drop off and a game comes out to offer those millions what they odviously want out of an MMORPG, EQ will remain the top game in the MMORPG world.  Do not listen to Ginkeq and his love of WoW...EQ is the odvious choice as the top game due to the numbers that play it.  WoW will always stay a niche game for people that like poor quality and mob grinding.  Its' numbers will always stay under that 1 million sub spot due to their crap design.  WoW is the model t to EQ's Corvette.  Why drive the Model T when you can have the power of the Corvette with the joy of millions of other people to drive around with.

    Odviously the dedicated players of WoW will never be convinced of the power and grace of EQ.  They are just a loose collection of people living in the past longing over a game that never really will achieve greatness due to its design that does not appeal to the masses. 

    Wait...Maybe I got the two games backwards...

  • ArchemorousArchemorous Member Posts: 197
    Originally posted by Ginkeq







    I'm not bashin WoW because it is popular, there is just no challenge in it anymore.  It used to be half-decent before Blizzard sold out to dumb players.
     

     

    Link achievements.

    image

  • KnightcryKnightcry Member Posts: 168

     If Ginkeq hates WoW so much to make 10 threads a day on it something bad happened to him there.  That is a thread topic there. I am guessing he spent so much time in the barrens talking about Chuck Norris to really see the game. Probably got into a raid and was kicked for telling Chuck Norris jokes and not doing his role(probably huntard-yes there are hunters).

     

    Either way I am resubbing to WoW. There is nothing out there worth playing and if I need a time killer it might as well be something Mr.QQwowTroll hates.

  • coffeecoffee Member Posts: 2,007
    Originally posted by Ginkeq

    Originally posted by Thenarius

    Originally posted by Ginkeq



    I dont know if you've ever raided Caprin in CoD (EQ).  If one person dies in that raid, 4 skeletons spawn.  Every time someone times, 4 more skeletons.  So if you have newbies in your raid pulling agro and dying, your whole raid is going to go down.
     

    So was Archimonde. If you ever played WoW, you would have known this.

     

    I played before they got rid of 40 mans, as I've said.  I tried it after they added their stupid 25 mans which I cleared within weeks of returning, and got on top of their pointless and unbalanced arena system.  Then after beating WoW after returning for a month, I quit.

    They've only dumbed it down since I've last played, so it's not worth revisiting that game.

    Sorry if I don't play trivial and brainless MMORPGs like WoW anymore... Maybe if they had less welfare epics I would have liked it, and maybe World PVP, and decent zones that were challenging.



     

    image

  • GinkeqGinkeq Member Posts: 615
    Originally posted by Thenarius


    Ginkeq, I find your hypocrisy rather ironic.

    I'd expect more from a 23 years old, you should know that nobody in the gaming industry gives a damn about your opinion.

    You don't care about difficulty, since most of WoW's hardmodes are far harder than anything before AQ40 and Nef.

    All you care about is how a casual player couldn't do anything and how you could flex your epeen in vanilla. Now, that everyone got decent epics, your little virtual sense of achievement and pride got crushed.

    Too bad, if you ever played for the sake of guild competition and fun, you wouldn't have to deal with that. Instead, you played it like it was your life. Well, too bad for you.

     

    Yeah, if their content was hard, then why does everyone have the same gear, and why has everyone cleared most of it?

    Back when I was clearing Naxx40, no one in the game was doing that kind of stuff.  You'd be worshipped back then, now, you just can't be great in an MMORPG like WoW.  Every newbie and scrub has the best gear.

    And whats the gear difference between normal and hardmode? Less than 5%, not enough to be significant.  Some superficial and minor gear adjustments.. The hardmode content is a lot more difficult than normal difficulty, but the adjustments to the gear stats are not enough.

    Really, the hardmode gear takes 10x as much effort as easy-mode normal gear.  And there is almost no difference between the gear...

    They just give everything to everyone anymore, that's why the game has so many newbies playing it.

  • EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,249

    I love seeing the EQ players coming out of the woodwork. I am 50/50 on instances. But when the dungeons are seamless or zoned off, I would have to go with that aspect because it allows a better world community, that all new mmo's are missing today.

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