So basically Gink is saying i was a hardcore wow raider and all of you people who have real jobs or families that prevent you from being me suck. You opened up AQ good for you do you want a cookie. I don't think I have ever stepped foot in there. I don't raid and either do most of my friends. We are all working adults with families we play the game to relax we don't want a game to be a part time job. When you are successful and fulfilled in RL this virtual fluff doesn't have much if any meaning. MMOs are entertainment nothing less nothing more if a game no longer entertains you then move and find something else. It is just petty to come here and keep trashing a game it is not the games fault you burned through content. I highly doubt a game can be created that will keep some people occupied for more than a few weeks.
To be honest Blizzard did right with Pre BC with PVE, kept the kids out and left them with PVP. The strats the requirements the hours of farming for FR NR FR just damn near every resistance lol. Just to be let down in BC by our gear being replaced by whites... Most of us frustrated by that quit and sold accounts (1200 dollars for mine! Wew!) BC dumbed down raiding in WoW by a lot to tell the truth. WoTLK took it even further... (Please no one say: What are you talking about it is so hard! IT IS TANK AND SPANK BOSSES WHAT IS HARD?!) I've seen level 80's with their infinite mana/hp going into MC and getting destroyed by Mag's enrage (Omgz thiz issnt tanks n spanks it attacking faster try kite it!) The most fun I've ever had raiding was figuring out strats for Naxx. They've out done themselves on that one Razuvious oh god that bastard was a fun fight, Patchwerk, Anub. They were fun fights to say the least. RIP challenging WoW, Welcome easy mode, I mean really just vendor out Tier gear now for 1 copper. The only way I can think of it getting any easier.
Now for Eq1 I've never played it nor will I ever play it, (Ac1/2 man myself, Turbine do the right thing and bring AC2 back) but EQ1 has to be doing something right to continue to have subs and continue to have updates am I right? The fact that it has been so long and they are still known as one of the top MMOs they deserve respect IMO just like AC1. They continue to give satisfy the needs of their player base and it is amazing. There were some complaints that I remember of course with all the early games Rubberbanding and complaints about how hard it is (God I wish there were more hardcore games out there *Crosses fingers* Comon Mortal Online!)
To end this rant WoW was damn good but ruined it thank Blizzard! Also if anyone says yeah but *insert here raid* was soo hard do AQ40 down the twins or C'thun or go to Naxx 40 man and kill some trash and MAYBE I'll believe you.
At least someone else here knows what original WoW used to be like..
I was also not too happy when they made 1-man quest gear better than the stuff that no guilds could do.
Back when all the newbies were stuck in Molten Core, and my guild was in AQ40 and Naxx40... They put in an expansion where the whites/blues were at the same level as the Naxx40 gear (which most guilds weren't even capable of)
Too bad shitty games like WoW had to eliminate the whole progression system between instances, and make all of their content dumbed down and accessible regardless of skill/gear.
As long as you buy their junk expansions, you can have gear at the same level as players like me, who were among the first to do zones like Naxx40 and come up with the strategies. It's simply too much for most WoW players. They just need instances where they show up and get loot without having to expend any effort.
There was a time when all the "noobs" were stuck outside plane of fear and people thought they were leet for being in raids no one else could do. Everything you apply to wow was said about eq, but maybe you were not around back then or you are just ignoring anything that disproves your theories, I don't know.
Over time everyone got used to EQ's mechanics and completed all the content that the game has to offer. The days of EQ being hard died many years before wow even released. As soon as EQ instanced its content so that more than 4 people could try it, the raids were being completed left and right by the so called noobs.
You sound very jaded by WoW. I think...not know, but think, from reading your posts that you are much like myself.
I started MMORPG's with EQ in 99'. What drew me to it was the huge open world where I could go and do what I wanted, different classes to try..as well as group with to accomplish things, the great community (Very helpful and nice, for the most part...or at least more so than today's MMO's), the background story, and the things found within the world that tied into the story, etc, etc. EQ was challenging (Prior to PoP)...it was TOUGH to solo. It could be done, but only if you knew your class inside and out, and knew how mobs acted, fought, pathing systems, etc. You had to THINK about your next move, because dying SUCKED...mainly because it meant you possibly lost xp, maybe even a level if barely into whatever level you were currently on, you had to go back and get your corpse to loot all your items off of it, and had to do so naked!
Most of these new age players would say that doesn't sound fun..and in some cases it wasn't...BUT, a lot of the time it WAS fun because it made you THINK about strategy. Not simply zerg in because if you died, you simply respawned at a safe spot still in tact and may have to pay an insignificant repair fee, and have a short rezz debuff timer. And accomplishing that was reward in itself. But again, IMO most of these new age players wouldn't think that is fun because they haven't experienced it in a modern MMO. They have only experienced companies taking the path towards console play, making MMO's fast paced, instanced heavy, linear, fast reward heavy, and easy.
Sad to say it, but I don't think we are going to ever see another EQ...unless SoE can learn from the past (Doubt it though), and make EQ Next (Dumb name for it btw) somewhat like the old ways. But alas, Sony is one of the greediest companies (Next to Blizzard), so they will more than likely either...
a) Make it like old EQ, but then slowly add/substitute in features of modern MMO's to get more players/money and ruin it as they have every MMO they have done to date because they can't be content with a solid flow of consistent playerbase income (300-500K subs) or..
b) Make it a WoW clone right off the bat with an EQ skin and and jump off the MMO lemming cliff immediately to join the rest of it's failed brethren.
Save your breath. The majority seem to be swaying companies to fading MMO's out into more of a console RPG than a MMORPG. It's what they want. This is why I personally can't find an MMO worth staying with more than a month or two myself. It's all the same linear/tunnel visioned, instance heavy, easy mode, bland story driven fodder. If I wanted to play this style of game that most of these supposed MMORPG's are now, I'd go downstairs and turn on the PS3 or XBox 360 to be honest.
Sure, it pisses me off, but we are the minority now....and there is no money in backing the minority in gaming. MMO's are following the world rat race trend. People don't have time, or don't want to dedicate time to the adventure. They want progress and rewards now now now. MMO's at least as we knew and loved them are a dying breed IMO Ginkeq, whether we like it or not.
So it is EQ's fault that your guild did not know how to recruit the right classes? Again, i don't know how it takes you 3 hours to get to a raid zone in EQ. Any disciplined guild has members that will show up within 30 minutes of a raid being called. Only diff is that in WoW you only need to have 9 other people show up to the raid, and they tend to take several hours because they are the type of player who is busy screwing around instead of showing up to raids.
No, if you had actually read my response, I blame EQ's rigid structure creating a by-product of the longest downtimes of any mmo out there. Period. This is not my opinion, this is absolute fact that EQ's structure has more downtime built in than any other mmo; bar none. Between gathering the huge numbers needed, CR time, buff necessities and travel obstacles, EQ simply has more downtime per action time of any mmo - and that is with the dumbing down of it. If you think this false prove me wrong. This is an almost undisputable fact.
And as I said, we were a top guild on our server and those remaining still are; stop trying to argue assinine points which have no basis in fact. Prove to me that EQ doesn't have more downtime than any other mmo built right into the mechanics and game structure. You can't, because EQ is top dog when it comes to that and you still know it, no matter how many adolescent insults you throw at my old guild.
And stop pretending you haven't had to wait around for the right enchanter to log in or the right cleric - to act as if that isn't more of an issue in EQ than WoW is laughable - but again you know this.
You know what makes the most uber toon in EQ? A lot of time- not much skill.
You know what makes the most uber toon in WoW? A lot LESS time - not much skill.
To say any different is to be self deluded.
It didn't take more skill to get my epic weapon in EQ. It took more time. Time that I was paying for waiting around for my turn on the raid list to come up. Every tuesday and thursday we did Epics. Because EQ was soooo hardcore - 75 of your guildies had to be coordinated for 1 person's epic. In a guild of 250+, that means it took months until my name came up on the list. It was not HARD. It went without a hitch or a death. It just took for freaking ever. And that is not my guild's fault that is the fault of the ridiculous downtime inherent in EQ's gameplay.
I was there when WoW released. I saw first hand the mass exodus. You have said yourself PoP turned people off to EQ. Why? Because it added a whole new layer of needless downtime in the restrictive keying system, among other time consuming ridiculousness they added. They haven't returned because despite the 'improvements' it still stands today as the greatest time sink in mmo history.
Originally posted by altairzq EQ2 was nothing like original EQ. Was much more similar to WOW, but with lesser quality and required more hardware.
I never said it was like the original, but if you don't remember all the changes they made in that game to make it more solo friendly, simplify crafting, simplify travelling, shop bartering changes, etc. then I'm not sure what to tell you. It was rather obvious who they were trying to "emulate" when they made those changes and what audience they were shooting for.
IMO, EQ2 and WoW were both attempting to do the same thing: eliminate the wasteful downtime inherent in EQ's system. Both were under development at the same time, EQ2 released just ahead, if I remember correctly.
Problem with EQ2 is that WoW did it correctly, while SOE did not. Hence the permanent drop in EQ's subs and the ho-hum showing of EQ which still persists today.
WoW's success = more action, less downtime. As for challenge between WoW and other games...that will be debated until the end of mmo time. In my experience, I believe they all have the same level of challenge, but with WoW simply allows you to re-group from failure more quickly. Meaning you level, gain rewards, rez, etc. at a faster rate. But some feel that artificial road blocks such as long CR's, rigorously keyed events, huge travel times, etc. = challenge. It equalled boredom for me, however, I'm not obsessive compulsive with an infantile superiority complex about which video game entertains me, such as many posting here seem to be.
Some people say that WoWs PVE system provides better content, because it is intsanced and they can have scripts etc. within the instance. However, EQ had scripted events too, all of the Planar zones and even some old world zones had player triggered events during raids. After looking back at EQ's raid content vs WoWs raid content, I've realized how cheap and easy it is to make instances. Look at how small a WoW zone is compared to an EQ zone: That one EQ zone is larger and has more content than 10-20 WoW raid instances combined. Anyone who claims that WoW content has more depth is clueless. And that's just one zone. I'd imagine that a few EQ raid zones are larger than all of WoWs cheap instances combined. These instances let them provide cheap PVE content in zones that are plain and lack any depth. The boss generally just happens to be sitting around, near the entrance. They've given up on even providing a zone or environment for most of their raid content. And a lot of their instances simply are missing any regular NPCs that players usually have to clear. WoW's been reduced to cheap instances with bosses sitting alone in empty zones that lack any depth. It's not even close to what EQ's PVE zones were.
Guess you're not aware that two former EQ players created much of WOW's content, might've heard of them Tigole & Furor. If you don't then you weren't an old school EQ player. They made WOW everything EQ wasn't, that is easier and more streamlined. Everything SOE has done to EQ, EQ2 has been attempts to copy WOW to make their games better.
All that video shows me is a waste of time running around empty ugly hallways with nothing in them... fun stuff.
Some people say that WoWs PVE system provides better content, because it is intsanced and they can have scripts etc. within the instance. However, EQ had scripted events too, all of the Planar zones and even some old world zones had player triggered events during raids. After looking back at EQ's raid content vs WoWs raid content, I've realized how cheap and easy it is to make instances. Look at how small a WoW zone is compared to an EQ zone: That one EQ zone is larger and has more content than 10-20 WoW raid instances combined. Anyone who claims that WoW content has more depth is clueless. And that's just one zone. I'd imagine that a few EQ raid zones are larger than all of WoWs cheap instances combined. These instances let them provide cheap PVE content in zones that are plain and lack any depth. The boss generally just happens to be sitting around, near the entrance. They've given up on even providing a zone or environment for most of their raid content. And a lot of their instances simply are missing any regular NPCs that players usually have to clear. WoW's been reduced to cheap instances with bosses sitting alone in empty zones that lack any depth. It's not even close to what EQ's PVE zones were.
Guess you're not aware that two former EQ players created much of WOW's content, might've heard of them Tigole & Furor. If you don't then you weren't an old school EQ player. They made WOW everything EQ wasn't, that is easier and more streamlined. Everything SOE has done to EQ, EQ2 has been attempts to copy WOW to make their games better.
All that video shows me is a waste of time running around empty ugly hallways with nothing in them... fun stuff.
Ginq is not about content, not about anything, he is lamenting the loss of his epeens. He wants to be the one in a game, the god everyone else log in to worship. Give him a set of T11 now and he will stand in dalaran and spam the channels, asking ppl to inspect him. He will come telling us how great WoW is. He won't be playing, he is not playing. He wants the game to stop progression after he got the unique gear. It is all about him, him, him and again him.
Back to the discussion: EQ raids and WoW raids are 2 different worlds.
(1) In EQ raid you need to assemble a lot of people, either you have all the people or you wait.. In WoW there are big raids, 25 (now) or smaller raids (10 now) or 5 man heroics (not all are pushover, Halls of Reflection first boss (x2) encounter is still a challenge for those with less understanding about spell interrupts and such. That is why EQ is a waiting game at the portals, while WoW was a waiting game in dalaran, shorter wait for WoW.
(2) In EQ you spend a lot of time getting everyone to the instance. One person DCed and you will lose him or you have to wait. In WoW you only need to fly 2 to a summoning stone, or 2+1 lock into the instance. So EQ is a game with hour spent getting everyone to the instance before you can start doing anything. Don't tell me 75 man assembled to enjoy fighting the random mobs along the route and guess what? Everyone use the same route anyway, route with least mobs. In WoW we can send 2 or 2+1 lock to the instance as we recruit and summon everyone when the team fills. Which game provides more game value? Mob dodging and long hours of boat ride+walking? Or just summoning and start doing what we want to do in the first place, the raid dungeon.
(3) In EQ you have a lot of trash to kill and not sure you have the boss (some boss are random spawns, which could take up to 10 hours waiting for a boss, or timed, say 48 hours spawn after death). In WoW you have your own boss and some mobs, trash not always trivial. A lot of trash are harder than the boss, the trash in the first (pair of) boss(es) in HoR, the trash and the tunnel before we get thorum ... .
(4) In EQ it is all about a couple players. The puller (usually a monk) is key, if he fails to split pull, he dies or he wipes the gang if he gets too close. The enchanter, if his CC (called mesmerize then) fails, its a wipe. When CC is not working (the giants), its the split pull and tanks+heal teams splitting up the mobs so everyone else kill them one by one, or AoE. In WoW each and every class can do something. Each and every class need to do some basic stuffs (the naxx dance, the holdir dance, Lord Marrow's multiple dancing). Everyone is involved in WoW, less so in EQ. When I play my wizard in EQ, I wait and wait for the monk to split the pull and wait and wait as the healer rez him again and again, if the mobs come into camp we wait for enchanter to mezz, if and only if we get that we dps, otherwise, we wipe and spend an hour CRing.
EQ and WoW are totally diffferent games. EQ was good back then when the only other game is UO. EQ was fun b/c the alternate is to gang grief to death in UO, or play singles. Now with multiple games available, EQ looks and feel old. And dated. EQ in the old days was make that way b/c they need us to kill time by boring time sinks, b/c there is just that much SoE (verant) can plug onto our small 386 based PC with 640RAM, and dial up or poke slow cable. It was not really fun as it it, it is dictated by hardware limitation.
Originally posted by skarwolf Guess you're not aware that two former EQ players created much of WOW's content, might've heard of them Tigole & Furor. If you don't then you weren't an old school EQ player. They made WOW everything EQ wasn't, that is easier and more streamlined. Everything SOE has done to EQ, EQ2 has been attempts to copy WOW to make their games better. All that video shows me is a waste of time running around empty ugly hallways with nothing in them... fun stuff.
2 former EQ players? Kaplan got recruited by Morhaime because they played in the same EQ guild (Kaplan said so in a interview).
A lot of Wows devs played EQ at the time.
Personally I think that they are focusing too much of the endgame on raids in both those games and most other MMOs, raiding can be fun but there are other things they could add that would make the endgame more interesting, like guild made cities and a more advanced crafting system.
I agree with the lack of epeen argument, it seems to me that the hardcore raiders are the ones complaining about how easy it has gotten to get epics, (even though you still have to go through the same content to get it) but since Blizzard decided to make it easier for everyone to enjoy their game, they all decide that they aren't happy because now everyone has their gear, and they are no longer a unique and beautiful snowflake.
To these people I say just leave then, cause i really don't want your elitist attitude infected the rest of the community.
Ginkeq, You sound very jaded by WoW. I think...not know, but think, from reading your posts that you are much like myself. I started MMORPG's with EQ in 99'. What drew me to it was the huge open world where I could go and do what I wanted, different classes to try..as well as group with to accomplish things, the great community (Very helpful and nice, for the most part...or at least more so than today's MMO's), the background story, and the things found within the world that tied into the story, etc, etc. EQ was challenging (Prior to PoP)...it was TOUGH to solo. It could be done, but only if you knew your class inside and out, and knew how mobs acted, fought, pathing systems, etc. You had to THINK about your next move, because dying SUCKED...mainly because it meant you possibly lost xp, maybe even a level if barely into whatever level you were currently on, you had to go back and get your corpse to loot all your items off of it, and had to do so naked! Most of these new age players would say that doesn't sound fun..and in some cases it wasn't...BUT, a lot of the time it WAS fun because it made you THINK about strategy. Not simply zerg in because if you died, you simply respawned at a safe spot still in tact and may have to pay an insignificant repair fee, and have a short rezz debuff timer. And accomplishing that was reward in itself. But again, IMO most of these new age players wouldn't think that is fun because they haven't experienced it in a modern MMO. They have only experienced companies taking the path towards console play, making MMO's fast paced, instanced heavy, linear, fast reward heavy, and easy. Sad to say it, but I don't think we are going to ever see another EQ...unless SoE can learn from the past (Doubt it though), and make EQ Next (Dumb name for it btw) somewhat like the old ways. But alas, Sony is one of the greediest companies (Next to Blizzard), so they will more than likely either... a) Make it like old EQ, but then slowly add/substitute in features of modern MMO's to get more players/money and ruin it as they have every MMO they have done to date because they can't be content with a solid flow of consistent playerbase income (300-500K subs) or.. b) Make it a WoW clone right off the bat with an EQ skin and and jump off the MMO lemming cliff immediately to join the rest of it's failed brethren. Save your breath. The majority seem to be swaying companies to fading MMO's out into more of a console RPG than a MMORPG. It's what they want. This is why I personally can't find an MMO worth staying with more than a month or two myself. It's all the same linear/tunnel visioned, instance heavy, easy mode, bland story driven fodder. If I wanted to play this style of game that most of these supposed MMORPG's are now, I'd go downstairs and turn on the PS3 or XBox 360 to be honest. Sure, it pisses me off, but we are the minority now....and there is no money in backing the minority in gaming. MMO's are following the world rat race trend. People don't have time, or don't want to dedicate time to the adventure. They want progress and rewards now now now. MMO's at least as we knew and loved them are a dying breed IMO Ginkeq, whether we like it or not.
lol soe doing an everquest .ya right good luck!remember soe always hated the idea of an everquest game in the first place
when the dude asked his boss to make everquest it was flatly refused
when that boss was traded for another soe boss the everquest guy got lucky that boss was open and fair
so he did approve the project but all along the building of everquest employe from various branch were laughing at everquest
they were calling it neverquest when no everquest guys were around
now again everquest guys that made everquest a reality will probably have to do same convincing they did back 13 years ago
that made everquest become a reality .
why ?everybody want soe job ,it was like that back then .do you honestly believe the backstabber that were there 13 years ago
and saw everquest 3 first guys prove those (freaking backstabbing nay sayer) wrong went away
of caurse not . they are still stuck against the naysayer of then
i do hope those 3 at everquest are still good at convincing as they were then ,because only those 3 can trully be recon as the soul of everquest
and everquest was fighting against soe back then and will do so today again
lets face it soe was never on everquest side.good thing those 3 were pationate about everquest
we got best game ever made in the 90 ,00 .we can only hope that soe truly support everquest instead of always trying to shut them down trough various means (last attempt free realm)
Originally posted by skarwolf Guess you're not aware that two former EQ players created much of WOW's content, might've heard of them Tigole & Furor. If you don't then you weren't an old school EQ player. They made WOW everything EQ wasn't, that is easier and more streamlined. Everything SOE has done to EQ, EQ2 has been attempts to copy WOW to make their games better. All that video shows me is a waste of time running around empty ugly hallways with nothing in them... fun stuff.
2 former EQ players? Kaplan got recruited by Morhaime because they played in the same EQ guild (Kaplan said so in a interview).
A lot of Wows devs played EQ at the time.
Personally I think that they are focusing too much of the endgame on raids in both those games and most other MMOs, raiding can be fun but there are other things they could add that would make the endgame more interesting, like guild made cities and a more advanced crafting system.
Jumping up and down in agreement. If Blizz can insert SWG type of landscape roaming and houses ... and seriously old SWG crafting, merchanting, harvesting.
But if Blizz allows that kind of personal housing I will build my house next to Arthas in the upcoming last phase of ICC. If Arthas is about to wipe us, we zone into our house and heal up. Punt intended.
Originally posted by skarwolf Guess you're not aware that two former EQ players created much of WOW's content, might've heard of them Tigole & Furor. If you don't then you weren't an old school EQ player. They made WOW everything EQ wasn't, that is easier and more streamlined. Everything SOE has done to EQ, EQ2 has been attempts to copy WOW to make their games better. All that video shows me is a waste of time running around empty ugly hallways with nothing in them... fun stuff.
2 former EQ players? Kaplan got recruited by Morhaime because they played in the same EQ guild (Kaplan said so in a interview).
A lot of Wows devs played EQ at the time.
Personally I think that they are focusing too much of the endgame on raids in both those games and most other MMOs, raiding can be fun but there are other things they could add that would make the endgame more interesting, like guild made cities and a more advanced crafting system.
Jumping up and down in agreement. If Blizz can insert SWG type of landscape roaming and houses ... and seriously old SWG crafting, merchanting, harvesting.
But if Blizz allows that kind of personal housing I will build my house next to Arthas in the upcoming last phase of ICC. If Arthas is about to wipe us, we zone into our house and heal up. Punt intended.
There are non-instanced dungeons in WoW. The one in the Hinterlands with the boss, Vile Priestess Hex. The Scalet Crusade citidels in Eastern Plague Lands, etc. You needed a 5 man group if you went into these places at the appropriate level.
Yes, all of these were nerfed in patched 2.0 or so, the elite status of the mobs reduced to normal.
Also, there are a few non-instanced dungeons in the expansions. Icecrown Citidel has elite mobs and it's non-instanced. There are a few elite bosses. These mobs haven't lost their elite status. I'm not sure it was meant as a dungeon though.
So basically Gink is saying i was a hardcore wow raider and all of you people who have real jobs or families that prevent you from being me suck. You opened up AQ good for you do you want a cookie. I don't think I have ever stepped foot in there. I don't raid and either do most of my friends. We are all working adults with families we play the game to relax we don't want a game to be a part time job. When you are successful and fulfilled in RL this virtual fluff doesn't have much if any meaning. MMOs are entertainment nothing less nothing more if a game no longer entertains you then move and find something else. It is just petty to come here and keep trashing a game it is not the games fault you burned through content. I highly doubt a game can be created that will keep some people occupied for more than a few weeks.
Current WOW players invest more time than you would invest playing a game like Everquest. There's a sheer amount of trivial instances that players in WoW log on for. If you add the time up, it takes more time, but the content is easier.
The issue isn't that you have more of a real life, but that all of the time you spend in WoW is basically spent doing content that is not challenging at all anymore.
You just want shitty players to get the best gear, and you label us skilled players as being losers or something, because we are competent and we think and know how to take care of raid content in these games. So they catered to dumb players, not "players with lives", get it right.
Since the OP didn't enter a single Raid content since the 40 men Raids, he certainly can't comment on the present day extremely hard difficulty settings of the latest Raid content in WoW.
Which shows the extreme lack of knowledge on his part of the actual end game Raiding these days in WOW. Apparently he thinks by reading forums he knows the end game. Instead he should look at the worldwide guild progress.
I told you i did 25 mans, and back when they had hard modes. And the hard mode gear isn't much diff than the regular gear.
So an encounter might be 10x as hard, but your gear might be 5% better at most. Real fair to players w/ brains.
Some people say that WoWs PVE system provides better content, because it is intsanced and they can have scripts etc. within the instance. However, EQ had scripted events too, all of the Planar zones and even some old world zones had player triggered events during raids. After looking back at EQ's raid content vs WoWs raid content, I've realized how cheap and easy it is to make instances. Look at how small a WoW zone is compared to an EQ zone: That one EQ zone is larger and has more content than 10-20 WoW raid instances combined. Anyone who claims that WoW content has more depth is clueless. And that's just one zone. I'd imagine that a few EQ raid zones are larger than all of WoWs cheap instances combined. These instances let them provide cheap PVE content in zones that are plain and lack any depth. The boss generally just happens to be sitting around, near the entrance. They've given up on even providing a zone or environment for most of their raid content. And a lot of their instances simply are missing any regular NPCs that players usually have to clear. WoW's been reduced to cheap instances with bosses sitting alone in empty zones that lack any depth. It's not even close to what EQ's PVE zones were.
Guess you're not aware that two former EQ players created much of WOW's content, might've heard of them Tigole & Furor. If you don't then you weren't an old school EQ player. They made WOW everything EQ wasn't, that is easier and more streamlined. Everything SOE has done to EQ, EQ2 has been attempts to copy WOW to make their games better.
All that video shows me is a waste of time running around empty ugly hallways with nothing in them... fun stuff.
Some people say that WoWs PVE system provides better content, because it is intsanced and they can have scripts etc. within the instance. However, EQ had scripted events too, all of the Planar zones and even some old world zones had player triggered events during raids. After looking back at EQ's raid content vs WoWs raid content, I've realized how cheap and easy it is to make instances. Look at how small a WoW zone is compared to an EQ zone: That one EQ zone is larger and has more content than 10-20 WoW raid instances combined. Anyone who claims that WoW content has more depth is clueless. And that's just one zone. I'd imagine that a few EQ raid zones are larger than all of WoWs cheap instances combined. These instances let them provide cheap PVE content in zones that are plain and lack any depth. The boss generally just happens to be sitting around, near the entrance. They've given up on even providing a zone or environment for most of their raid content. And a lot of their instances simply are missing any regular NPCs that players usually have to clear. WoW's been reduced to cheap instances with bosses sitting alone in empty zones that lack any depth. It's not even close to what EQ's PVE zones were.
Guess you're not aware that two former EQ players created much of WOW's content, might've heard of them Tigole & Furor. If you don't then you weren't an old school EQ player. They made WOW everything EQ wasn't, that is easier and more streamlined. Everything SOE has done to EQ, EQ2 has been attempts to copy WOW to make their games better.
All that video shows me is a waste of time running around empty ugly hallways with nothing in them... fun stuff.
Ginq is not about content, not about anything, he is lamenting the loss of his epeens. He wants to be the one in a game, the god everyone else log in to worship. Give him a set of T11 now and he will stand in dalaran and spam the channels, asking ppl to inspect him. He will come telling us how great WoW is. He won't be playing, he is not playing. He wants the game to stop progression after he got the unique gear. It is all about him, him, him and again him.
Players should be somewhat unique in an MMORPG, especially players who are better than other players.
If a shit guild can't clear newb zones like MC, why give them the same gear as someone who has cleared MC, BWL, and AQ?
It's like you guys want an MMORPG that has some kind of progression, yet any player who wants to be distinct from trash players is all about "e-peen":.
Tell me, why even play an MMORPG if you don't want to be different. If you want equality, even if you are a shitty player, maybe play a genre like an FPS. I mean, giving everyone equivalent gear is equivalent to everyone having no gear at all. They don't belong in the whole genre if they expect not to do any work and have the same gear as everyone else.
Reading the OP makes me laugh. I agree with the lack of epeen argument, it seems to me that the hardcore raiders are the ones complaining about how easy it has gotten to get epics, (even though you still have to go through the same content to get it) but since Blizzard decided to make it easier for everyone to enjoy their game, they all decide that they aren't happy because now everyone has their gear, and they are no longer a unique and beautiful snowflake. To these people I say just leave then, cause i really don't want your elitist attitude infected the rest of the community.
Content has gotten easier -> Everyone has the same epics -> Why play an MMORPG when everyone has the same epics?
It kind of seems pointless to raid if they plan on giving everything to everyone anyway.
Can't newbies just be content with their trash Molten Core gear, it's a badge of their true skill level.
Some people are MC material, and some people are AQ/Naxx40 material. And the gear should reflect that.. Now everyone does the same trivial instances.
I was a hardcore raider back in the day ( http://www.youtube.com/user/coffeedaman#p/u ) and Wow has changed to suit me as I have taken on more responsibilites, jobs, family and can spend far less time in front of my PC. The OP on the other hand clearly has not grown up and still spends 12 hours a day glued to his magic box, ruler at hand to measure his e-peen.. sad, but it takes all sorts.
In general instances are cheap implementation of load balance.
That is one of the reasons Blizzard introduced battle grounds - because they do not managed to reduce the lag from world PvP. Thats why they make a limits to the only world PvP zone wintergrasp but even that there is still incredible lag. Even such crappy game like DF manage much bigger battles with almost no lag.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
In general instances are cheap implementation of load balance. That is one of the reasons Blizzard introduced battle grounds - because they do not managed to reduce the lag from world PvP. Thats why they make a limits to the only world PvP zone wintergrasp but even that there is still incredible lag. Even such crappy game like DF manage much bigger battles with almost no lag.
Battlegrounds were planned to be in at launch.
Wintergrasp is limited to 120 v 120 (due to its popularity).. 240 people flighting in one zone would lag any game, in regards to DF how can you tell when it lags with such poor animation?
Wintergrasp was a test bed for blizzard, the new PvP zone in cataclysm will be much better implemented.
WoW this thread still going. I was a hardcore raider back in the day ( http://www.youtube.com/user/coffeedaman#p/u ) and Wow has changed to suit me as I have taken on more responsibilites, jobs, family and can spend far less time in front of my PC. The OP on the other hand clearly has not grown up and still spends 12 hours a day glued to his magic box, ruler at hand to measure his e-peen.. sad, but it takes all sorts.
This post is excellent I feel exactly the same way about it, really good write up. I used to play from 19.00 to 00.00-01.00 in the morning every day on classic and all the way up to BT I just cant afford these type of schedules anymore and cant plan my life around a game, I still enjoy playing it, but when I can not when the game needs me, I have come to apreciate the "casually achieveable" content blizzard is putting up.
In general instances are cheap implementation of load balance. That is one of the reasons Blizzard introduced battle grounds - because they do not managed to reduce the lag from world PvP. Thats why they make a limits to the only world PvP zone wintergrasp but even that there is still incredible lag. Even such crappy game like DF manage much bigger battles with almost no lag.
Battlegrounds were planned to be in at launch.
Wintergrasp is limited to 120 v 120 (due to its popularity).. 240 people flighting in one zone would lag any game, in regards to DF how can you tell when it lags with such poor animation?
Wintergrasp was a test bed for blizzard, the new PvP zone in cataclysm will be much better implemented.
I'm guessing they have special servers for Wintergrasp, since it's instanced. So it's not the same as world PvP.
World PVP in WoW means the server is going to crash. That is what always happened when one team attacked another teams town.
Blizzard is a cheap company, that is all. They couldn't put a real PVP system in their game because there is no reason to fight other players in WoW's World PVP.
Comments
EQ2 just wanted an audience. It was horrible at release and lost hands down.
So basically Gink is saying i was a hardcore wow raider and all of you people who have real jobs or families that prevent you from being me suck. You opened up AQ good for you do you want a cookie. I don't think I have ever stepped foot in there. I don't raid and either do most of my friends. We are all working adults with families we play the game to relax we don't want a game to be a part time job. When you are successful and fulfilled in RL this virtual fluff doesn't have much if any meaning. MMOs are entertainment nothing less nothing more if a game no longer entertains you then move and find something else. It is just petty to come here and keep trashing a game it is not the games fault you burned through content. I highly doubt a game can be created that will keep some people occupied for more than a few weeks.
At least someone else here knows what original WoW used to be like..
I was also not too happy when they made 1-man quest gear better than the stuff that no guilds could do.
Back when all the newbies were stuck in Molten Core, and my guild was in AQ40 and Naxx40... They put in an expansion where the whites/blues were at the same level as the Naxx40 gear (which most guilds weren't even capable of)
Too bad shitty games like WoW had to eliminate the whole progression system between instances, and make all of their content dumbed down and accessible regardless of skill/gear.
As long as you buy their junk expansions, you can have gear at the same level as players like me, who were among the first to do zones like Naxx40 and come up with the strategies. It's simply too much for most WoW players. They just need instances where they show up and get loot without having to expend any effort.
There was a time when all the "noobs" were stuck outside plane of fear and people thought they were leet for being in raids no one else could do. Everything you apply to wow was said about eq, but maybe you were not around back then or you are just ignoring anything that disproves your theories, I don't know.
Over time everyone got used to EQ's mechanics and completed all the content that the game has to offer. The days of EQ being hard died many years before wow even released. As soon as EQ instanced its content so that more than 4 people could try it, the raids were being completed left and right by the so called noobs.
Ginkeq,
You sound very jaded by WoW. I think...not know, but think, from reading your posts that you are much like myself.
I started MMORPG's with EQ in 99'. What drew me to it was the huge open world where I could go and do what I wanted, different classes to try..as well as group with to accomplish things, the great community (Very helpful and nice, for the most part...or at least more so than today's MMO's), the background story, and the things found within the world that tied into the story, etc, etc. EQ was challenging (Prior to PoP)...it was TOUGH to solo. It could be done, but only if you knew your class inside and out, and knew how mobs acted, fought, pathing systems, etc. You had to THINK about your next move, because dying SUCKED...mainly because it meant you possibly lost xp, maybe even a level if barely into whatever level you were currently on, you had to go back and get your corpse to loot all your items off of it, and had to do so naked!
Most of these new age players would say that doesn't sound fun..and in some cases it wasn't...BUT, a lot of the time it WAS fun because it made you THINK about strategy. Not simply zerg in because if you died, you simply respawned at a safe spot still in tact and may have to pay an insignificant repair fee, and have a short rezz debuff timer. And accomplishing that was reward in itself. But again, IMO most of these new age players wouldn't think that is fun because they haven't experienced it in a modern MMO. They have only experienced companies taking the path towards console play, making MMO's fast paced, instanced heavy, linear, fast reward heavy, and easy.
Sad to say it, but I don't think we are going to ever see another EQ...unless SoE can learn from the past (Doubt it though), and make EQ Next (Dumb name for it btw) somewhat like the old ways. But alas, Sony is one of the greediest companies (Next to Blizzard), so they will more than likely either...
a) Make it like old EQ, but then slowly add/substitute in features of modern MMO's to get more players/money and ruin it as they have every MMO they have done to date because they can't be content with a solid flow of consistent playerbase income (300-500K subs) or..
b) Make it a WoW clone right off the bat with an EQ skin and and jump off the MMO lemming cliff immediately to join the rest of it's failed brethren.
Save your breath. The majority seem to be swaying companies to fading MMO's out into more of a console RPG than a MMORPG. It's what they want. This is why I personally can't find an MMO worth staying with more than a month or two myself. It's all the same linear/tunnel visioned, instance heavy, easy mode, bland story driven fodder. If I wanted to play this style of game that most of these supposed MMORPG's are now, I'd go downstairs and turn on the PS3 or XBox 360 to be honest.
Sure, it pisses me off, but we are the minority now....and there is no money in backing the minority in gaming. MMO's are following the world rat race trend. People don't have time, or don't want to dedicate time to the adventure. They want progress and rewards now now now. MMO's at least as we knew and loved them are a dying breed IMO Ginkeq, whether we like it or not.
No, if you had actually read my response, I blame EQ's rigid structure creating a by-product of the longest downtimes of any mmo out there. Period. This is not my opinion, this is absolute fact that EQ's structure has more downtime built in than any other mmo; bar none. Between gathering the huge numbers needed, CR time, buff necessities and travel obstacles, EQ simply has more downtime per action time of any mmo - and that is with the dumbing down of it. If you think this false prove me wrong. This is an almost undisputable fact.
And as I said, we were a top guild on our server and those remaining still are; stop trying to argue assinine points which have no basis in fact. Prove to me that EQ doesn't have more downtime than any other mmo built right into the mechanics and game structure. You can't, because EQ is top dog when it comes to that and you still know it, no matter how many adolescent insults you throw at my old guild.
And stop pretending you haven't had to wait around for the right enchanter to log in or the right cleric - to act as if that isn't more of an issue in EQ than WoW is laughable - but again you know this.
You know what makes the most uber toon in EQ? A lot of time- not much skill.
You know what makes the most uber toon in WoW? A lot LESS time - not much skill.
To say any different is to be self deluded.
It didn't take more skill to get my epic weapon in EQ. It took more time. Time that I was paying for waiting around for my turn on the raid list to come up. Every tuesday and thursday we did Epics. Because EQ was soooo hardcore - 75 of your guildies had to be coordinated for 1 person's epic. In a guild of 250+, that means it took months until my name came up on the list. It was not HARD. It went without a hitch or a death. It just took for freaking ever. And that is not my guild's fault that is the fault of the ridiculous downtime inherent in EQ's gameplay.
I was there when WoW released. I saw first hand the mass exodus. You have said yourself PoP turned people off to EQ. Why? Because it added a whole new layer of needless downtime in the restrictive keying system, among other time consuming ridiculousness they added. They haven't returned because despite the 'improvements' it still stands today as the greatest time sink in mmo history.
I never said it was like the original, but if you don't remember all the changes they made in that game to make it more solo friendly, simplify crafting, simplify travelling, shop bartering changes, etc. then I'm not sure what to tell you. It was rather obvious who they were trying to "emulate" when they made those changes and what audience they were shooting for.
IMO, EQ2 and WoW were both attempting to do the same thing: eliminate the wasteful downtime inherent in EQ's system. Both were under development at the same time, EQ2 released just ahead, if I remember correctly.
Problem with EQ2 is that WoW did it correctly, while SOE did not. Hence the permanent drop in EQ's subs and the ho-hum showing of EQ which still persists today.
WoW's success = more action, less downtime. As for challenge between WoW and other games...that will be debated until the end of mmo time. In my experience, I believe they all have the same level of challenge, but with WoW simply allows you to re-group from failure more quickly. Meaning you level, gain rewards, rez, etc. at a faster rate. But some feel that artificial road blocks such as long CR's, rigorously keyed events, huge travel times, etc. = challenge. It equalled boredom for me, however, I'm not obsessive compulsive with an infantile superiority complex about which video game entertains me, such as many posting here seem to be.
Guess you're not aware that two former EQ players created much of WOW's content, might've heard of them Tigole & Furor. If you don't then you weren't an old school EQ player. They made WOW everything EQ wasn't, that is easier and more streamlined. Everything SOE has done to EQ, EQ2 has been attempts to copy WOW to make their games better.
All that video shows me is a waste of time running around empty ugly hallways with nothing in them... fun stuff.
Guess you're not aware that two former EQ players created much of WOW's content, might've heard of them Tigole & Furor. If you don't then you weren't an old school EQ player. They made WOW everything EQ wasn't, that is easier and more streamlined. Everything SOE has done to EQ, EQ2 has been attempts to copy WOW to make their games better.
All that video shows me is a waste of time running around empty ugly hallways with nothing in them... fun stuff.
Ginq is not about content, not about anything, he is lamenting the loss of his epeens. He wants to be the one in a game, the god everyone else log in to worship. Give him a set of T11 now and he will stand in dalaran and spam the channels, asking ppl to inspect him. He will come telling us how great WoW is. He won't be playing, he is not playing. He wants the game to stop progression after he got the unique gear. It is all about him, him, him and again him.
Back to the discussion: EQ raids and WoW raids are 2 different worlds.
(1) In EQ raid you need to assemble a lot of people, either you have all the people or you wait.. In WoW there are big raids, 25 (now) or smaller raids (10 now) or 5 man heroics (not all are pushover, Halls of Reflection first boss (x2) encounter is still a challenge for those with less understanding about spell interrupts and such. That is why EQ is a waiting game at the portals, while WoW was a waiting game in dalaran, shorter wait for WoW.
(2) In EQ you spend a lot of time getting everyone to the instance. One person DCed and you will lose him or you have to wait. In WoW you only need to fly 2 to a summoning stone, or 2+1 lock into the instance. So EQ is a game with hour spent getting everyone to the instance before you can start doing anything. Don't tell me 75 man assembled to enjoy fighting the random mobs along the route and guess what? Everyone use the same route anyway, route with least mobs. In WoW we can send 2 or 2+1 lock to the instance as we recruit and summon everyone when the team fills. Which game provides more game value? Mob dodging and long hours of boat ride+walking? Or just summoning and start doing what we want to do in the first place, the raid dungeon.
(3) In EQ you have a lot of trash to kill and not sure you have the boss (some boss are random spawns, which could take up to 10 hours waiting for a boss, or timed, say 48 hours spawn after death). In WoW you have your own boss and some mobs, trash not always trivial. A lot of trash are harder than the boss, the trash in the first (pair of) boss(es) in HoR, the trash and the tunnel before we get thorum ... .
(4) In EQ it is all about a couple players. The puller (usually a monk) is key, if he fails to split pull, he dies or he wipes the gang if he gets too close. The enchanter, if his CC (called mesmerize then) fails, its a wipe. When CC is not working (the giants), its the split pull and tanks+heal teams splitting up the mobs so everyone else kill them one by one, or AoE. In WoW each and every class can do something. Each and every class need to do some basic stuffs (the naxx dance, the holdir dance, Lord Marrow's multiple dancing). Everyone is involved in WoW, less so in EQ. When I play my wizard in EQ, I wait and wait for the monk to split the pull and wait and wait as the healer rez him again and again, if the mobs come into camp we wait for enchanter to mezz, if and only if we get that we dps, otherwise, we wipe and spend an hour CRing.
EQ and WoW are totally diffferent games. EQ was good back then when the only other game is UO. EQ was fun b/c the alternate is to gang grief to death in UO, or play singles. Now with multiple games available, EQ looks and feel old. And dated. EQ in the old days was make that way b/c they need us to kill time by boring time sinks, b/c there is just that much SoE (verant) can plug onto our small 386 based PC with 640RAM, and dial up or poke slow cable. It was not really fun as it it, it is dictated by hardware limitation.
2 former EQ players? Kaplan got recruited by Morhaime because they played in the same EQ guild (Kaplan said so in a interview).
A lot of Wows devs played EQ at the time.
Personally I think that they are focusing too much of the endgame on raids in both those games and most other MMOs, raiding can be fun but there are other things they could add that would make the endgame more interesting, like guild made cities and a more advanced crafting system.
For 15 bucks you can't find cheaper PvE....and you won't contract anything.
Reading the OP makes me laugh.
I agree with the lack of epeen argument, it seems to me that the hardcore raiders are the ones complaining about how easy it has gotten to get epics, (even though you still have to go through the same content to get it) but since Blizzard decided to make it easier for everyone to enjoy their game, they all decide that they aren't happy because now everyone has their gear, and they are no longer a unique and beautiful snowflake.
To these people I say just leave then, cause i really don't want your elitist attitude infected the rest of the community.
My Thoughts on Content Locust
lol soe doing an everquest .ya right good luck!remember soe always hated the idea of an everquest game in the first place
when the dude asked his boss to make everquest it was flatly refused
when that boss was traded for another soe boss the everquest guy got lucky that boss was open and fair
so he did approve the project but all along the building of everquest employe from various branch were laughing at everquest
they were calling it neverquest when no everquest guys were around
now again everquest guys that made everquest a reality will probably have to do same convincing they did back 13 years ago
that made everquest become a reality .
why ?everybody want soe job ,it was like that back then .do you honestly believe the backstabber that were there 13 years ago
and saw everquest 3 first guys prove those (freaking backstabbing nay sayer) wrong went away
of caurse not . they are still stuck against the naysayer of then
i do hope those 3 at everquest are still good at convincing as they were then ,because only those 3 can trully be recon as the soul of everquest
and everquest was fighting against soe back then and will do so today again
lets face it soe was never on everquest side.good thing those 3 were pationate about everquest
we got best game ever made in the 90 ,00 .we can only hope that soe truly support everquest instead of always trying to shut them down trough various means (last attempt free realm)
2 former EQ players? Kaplan got recruited by Morhaime because they played in the same EQ guild (Kaplan said so in a interview).
A lot of Wows devs played EQ at the time.
Personally I think that they are focusing too much of the endgame on raids in both those games and most other MMOs, raiding can be fun but there are other things they could add that would make the endgame more interesting, like guild made cities and a more advanced crafting system.
Jumping up and down in agreement. If Blizz can insert SWG type of landscape roaming and houses ... and seriously old SWG crafting, merchanting, harvesting.
But if Blizz allows that kind of personal housing I will build my house next to Arthas in the upcoming last phase of ICC. If Arthas is about to wipe us, we zone into our house and heal up. Punt intended.
2 former EQ players? Kaplan got recruited by Morhaime because they played in the same EQ guild (Kaplan said so in a interview).
A lot of Wows devs played EQ at the time.
Personally I think that they are focusing too much of the endgame on raids in both those games and most other MMOs, raiding can be fun but there are other things they could add that would make the endgame more interesting, like guild made cities and a more advanced crafting system.
Jumping up and down in agreement. If Blizz can insert SWG type of landscape roaming and houses ... and seriously old SWG crafting, merchanting, harvesting.
But if Blizz allows that kind of personal housing I will build my house next to Arthas in the upcoming last phase of ICC. If Arthas is about to wipe us, we zone into our house and heal up. Punt intended.
grin!!!
There are non-instanced dungeons in WoW. The one in the Hinterlands with the boss, Vile Priestess Hex. The Scalet Crusade citidels in Eastern Plague Lands, etc. You needed a 5 man group if you went into these places at the appropriate level.
Yes, all of these were nerfed in patched 2.0 or so, the elite status of the mobs reduced to normal.
Also, there are a few non-instanced dungeons in the expansions. Icecrown Citidel has elite mobs and it's non-instanced. There are a few elite bosses. These mobs haven't lost their elite status. I'm not sure it was meant as a dungeon though.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Current WOW players invest more time than you would invest playing a game like Everquest. There's a sheer amount of trivial instances that players in WoW log on for. If you add the time up, it takes more time, but the content is easier.
The issue isn't that you have more of a real life, but that all of the time you spend in WoW is basically spent doing content that is not challenging at all anymore.
You just want shitty players to get the best gear, and you label us skilled players as being losers or something, because we are competent and we think and know how to take care of raid content in these games. So they catered to dumb players, not "players with lives", get it right.
I told you i did 25 mans, and back when they had hard modes. And the hard mode gear isn't much diff than the regular gear.
So an encounter might be 10x as hard, but your gear might be 5% better at most. Real fair to players w/ brains.
Guess you're not aware that two former EQ players created much of WOW's content, might've heard of them Tigole & Furor. If you don't then you weren't an old school EQ player. They made WOW everything EQ wasn't, that is easier and more streamlined. Everything SOE has done to EQ, EQ2 has been attempts to copy WOW to make their games better.
All that video shows me is a waste of time running around empty ugly hallways with nothing in them... fun stuff.
Yeah, they made WoW easier, you are right.
Guess you're not aware that two former EQ players created much of WOW's content, might've heard of them Tigole & Furor. If you don't then you weren't an old school EQ player. They made WOW everything EQ wasn't, that is easier and more streamlined. Everything SOE has done to EQ, EQ2 has been attempts to copy WOW to make their games better.
All that video shows me is a waste of time running around empty ugly hallways with nothing in them... fun stuff.
Ginq is not about content, not about anything, he is lamenting the loss of his epeens. He wants to be the one in a game, the god everyone else log in to worship. Give him a set of T11 now and he will stand in dalaran and spam the channels, asking ppl to inspect him. He will come telling us how great WoW is. He won't be playing, he is not playing. He wants the game to stop progression after he got the unique gear. It is all about him, him, him and again him.
Players should be somewhat unique in an MMORPG, especially players who are better than other players.
If a shit guild can't clear newb zones like MC, why give them the same gear as someone who has cleared MC, BWL, and AQ?
It's like you guys want an MMORPG that has some kind of progression, yet any player who wants to be distinct from trash players is all about "e-peen":.
Tell me, why even play an MMORPG if you don't want to be different. If you want equality, even if you are a shitty player, maybe play a genre like an FPS. I mean, giving everyone equivalent gear is equivalent to everyone having no gear at all. They don't belong in the whole genre if they expect not to do any work and have the same gear as everyone else.
Content has gotten easier -> Everyone has the same epics -> Why play an MMORPG when everyone has the same epics?
It kind of seems pointless to raid if they plan on giving everything to everyone anyway.
Can't newbies just be content with their trash Molten Core gear, it's a badge of their true skill level.
Some people are MC material, and some people are AQ/Naxx40 material. And the gear should reflect that.. Now everyone does the same trivial instances.
WoW this thread still going.
I was a hardcore raider back in the day ( http://www.youtube.com/user/coffeedaman#p/u ) and Wow has changed to suit me as I have taken on more responsibilites, jobs, family and can spend far less time in front of my PC. The OP on the other hand clearly has not grown up and still spends 12 hours a day glued to his magic box, ruler at hand to measure his e-peen.. sad, but it takes all sorts.
In general instances are cheap implementation of load balance.
That is one of the reasons Blizzard introduced battle grounds - because they do not managed to reduce the lag from world PvP. Thats why they make a limits to the only world PvP zone wintergrasp but even that there is still incredible lag. Even such crappy game like DF manage much bigger battles with almost no lag.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
Battlegrounds were planned to be in at launch.
Wintergrasp is limited to 120 v 120 (due to its popularity).. 240 people flighting in one zone would lag any game, in regards to DF how can you tell when it lags with such poor animation?
Wintergrasp was a test bed for blizzard, the new PvP zone in cataclysm will be much better implemented.
This post is excellent I feel exactly the same way about it, really good write up. I used to play from 19.00 to 00.00-01.00 in the morning every day on classic and all the way up to BT I just cant afford these type of schedules anymore and cant plan my life around a game, I still enjoy playing it, but when I can not when the game needs me, I have come to apreciate the "casually achieveable" content blizzard is putting up.
Battlegrounds were planned to be in at launch.
Wintergrasp is limited to 120 v 120 (due to its popularity).. 240 people flighting in one zone would lag any game, in regards to DF how can you tell when it lags with such poor animation?
Wintergrasp was a test bed for blizzard, the new PvP zone in cataclysm will be much better implemented.
I'm guessing they have special servers for Wintergrasp, since it's instanced. So it's not the same as world PvP.
World PVP in WoW means the server is going to crash. That is what always happened when one team attacked another teams town.
Blizzard is a cheap company, that is all. They couldn't put a real PVP system in their game because there is no reason to fight other players in WoW's World PVP.