the authors arguements are very superficial. i dont even know why he himself thinks what he does. hes just sort of mocking a game that was never made, as tho he is unable to concieve of an idea larger than what he thinks is stupid.
Get felled by a horde of undead and you have to play as one. The server cap would be X number of people and if you became a zombie, you have to play as one. Actually, the caps on being a zombie could be managed too. Hunger can drive them. No fresh food ingested after a period of time and your hit points decrease. Zombies only regenerate when "fed". Otherwise the body decomposes to a useless heap.
Wait... did he say something about zombie level? WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU MAKE A ZOMBIE MMO LEVEL BASED!? There is a thread buried somewhere on this forum where a poster gave a GREAT breakdown of new and very innovative ideas to work with this genre. One was a "dungeon" crawl where you would need to break into a facility and a timer would start, the longer the timer runs the more zombies have picked up on your sent and are intent on making you lunch. I apologize to the original poster of this idea but it was too long ago. There was even discussion during the thread about exits of these areas. While a facility may have x amount of exits, only 1 or 2 is actually unbarred for whatever reason. Finding these exits would force players to either send a group of scouts to find working exits and report back to the group. The scouts would then have to defend these exits while the rest of the team attempts to furiously loot whatever they can without being overrun. Conversely, the whole group could attempt to attain as much resources/loot/etc as possible but the exits would be unknown and it would be much more frantic and exciting.
A zombie MMO would have to be skill based with VERY serious consequences for death. However, the run of the mill zombies you would run into outside of your rickety encampment would be trivial, if nothing else it would be target practice. Moreover, zombies would need to be able to attack and DESTROY these safe havens forcing the players to get out of dodge and set up camp somewhere else. Resources would be rare and highly contested by the various factions that would inevitably pop up.
The "endgame" (how I loathe that term) would have to be the accumulation of resources and the eradication of the zombie hordes from vast complexes such as an oil refinery or a water treatment plant. In theory this genre and what it could do is mouthwatering for MMO burnouts like myself. However, the scope for a project like this is huge. You would literally need a world similar in size to Earth. There has to be places to run and settlements to be created or taken from hordes of hungry zombies.
The key to a zombie MMO is capturing the fear and panic caused by the undead hordes. Death must be costly and avoided at all costs, but death cannot be so brutal that only hardcore gamers would even dare venture out past the mine fields. A succession of children could potentially fill this role. If you die you would spawn as a child with a % of the skills your "parent" character had. I'm sure people will HATE this idea claiming that they shouldn't have to lose what they had worked hard to earn... blah blah blah...see various posts on full loot, perma death etc.
Capturing the essence of a zombie apocalypse in an MMO must be similar to the chaos and dread that movie patrons experience. What a better way to do this than removing permanent safe havens. Once zombies realize your hold up in the old highschool with scores of others the zombies will come. Your success depends on whether you outpost has secured the necessary components for survival. Did you go scavenge for ammo? Is there enough fuel for the wall mounted flame-throwers? Were the doors/gates/etc reinforced?
Unfortunately, after reading this article it is clear that a zombie MMO is a terrible idea for the current sea of game devs out there. A zombie MMO where you spawn at a safepoint with all of your gear and limbs intact is just awful. There needs to be real consequences that will send a tinge of fear up your spine as you realize what you thought was 5 zombies is actually 50 and you are not sure which way leads to safety (Oh ya, NO MINI-MAP! Bring back Cartography!).
There is just so much to say about this genre... I know some will agree and many more will disagree, but without terror and consequences a true zombie MMO will never arise.
(sorry for the ragtag nature of this post, just typing what comes to mind.)
EDIT: Took me so long to write this that many of the ideas I proposed have already been stated. I have to say the posts made before my own are very interesting and give me a glimmer of hope for a zombie MMO.
Get felled by a horde of undead and you have to play as one. The server cap would be X number of people and if you became a zombie, you have to play as one. Actually, the caps on being a zombie could be managed too. Hunger can drive them. No fresh food ingested after a period of time and your hit points decrease. Zombies only regenerate when "fed". Otherwise the body decomposes to a useless heap.
"having" to do anything is not somthing MMO player generally like. i dont think forced turning would be a popular option at all, tho it certainly sounds cool on the surface. maybe as a limited time option. but why would anyone want to play as a shambling and easily killed gimp? with your former allies shooting you and running away faster than you?
the zombie aspect would have to just be a setting like a type of weather effect, this would have to be a pvp game, with zombie hordes just adding tension and difficulty to the gather and exploring aspect of solo or GvG.
a close ended cyclical period would be the only way to deal with mounting tension, shared by all players of a certain revolution. rising tension and scarcity of resources is the fuel for PvP, and if zombie spawn faster and faster the closer to the end, gathering supplies and building defences/fighting other groups for good hideouts for the final massive attack would be the best way to mitigate struggle and achievement.
the pac man analogy does poke my interest. Most of these MMOs have leaderboards. A zombie game is no different. Days of survival, zombie kills, npc rescues, most resources gathered, items crafted, etc. Can be a part of this. Perma death is mandatory.
Why Permadeath? All toons will eventually die. when they do, you can have the option to play as zombie (then go for zombie progression leaderboard stuff like : days of existence, human kills, camps conquered, gear "acquired", evolution stages ( maybe zombies evolve like others have said)
Now the replayability comes in because you create a family or "House" you have to manage. You, a spouse and a child. Three slots. Spend time and resources on the family to expand playable slots. The spouse always stays home so you can always play. However, the spouse gameplay is limited (can only participate in home /village/fortress defense. Primary focus is keeping the bloodline alive - this is where an interactive metagame with other players can come in to play, but I digress). All other toons are expendable. However, you want to play these toons to show off your skills in leaderboards and unlock skills.
Full loot PvP should also be part of the mix as well. Because loot is rare and death is so high - you keep what you kill. Storage space should be rare. A zombie may pick up a machete from a fresh pvp kill, but they have to figure if they should go back to a cave (with your zombie life timer clicking ) or forge ahead with your killing attacks enhanced. If your zombie body dies, your machete stays there lootable by anyone. More valuable items might have a drop protection % on it. Meaning a small chance your item falls to the ground unnoticed except you.
the pac man analogy does poke my interest. Most of these MMOs have leaderboards. A zombie game is no different. Days of survival, zombie kills, npc rescues, most resources gathered, items crafted, etc. Can be a part of this. Perma death is mandatory. Why Permadeath? All toons will eventually die. when they do, you can have the option to play as zombie (then go for zombie progression leaderboard stuff like : days of existence, human kills, camps conquered, gear "acquired", evolution stages ( maybe zombies evolve like others have said) Now the replayability comes in because you create a family or "House" you have to manage. You, a spouse and a child. Three slots. Spend time and resources on the family to expand playable slots. The spouse always stays home so you can always play. However, the spouse gameplay is limited (can only participate in home /village/fortress defense. Primary focus is keeping the bloodline alive - this is where an interactive metagame with other players can come in to play, but I digress). All other toons are expendable. However, you want to play these toons to show off your skills in leaderboards and unlock skills. Full loot PvP should also be part of the mix as well. Because loot is rare and death is so high - you keep what you kill. Storage space should be rare. A zombie may pick up a machete from a fresh pvp kill, but they have to figure if they should go back to a cave (with your zombie life timer clicking ) or forge ahead with your killing attacks enhanced. If your zombie body dies, your machete stays there lootable by anyone. More valuable items might have a drop protection % on it. Meaning a small chance your item falls to the ground unnoticed except you.
Quite interesting concept, the "family" based character slots and way to dodge permanent death... of your bloodline.
the pac man analogy does poke my interest. Most of these MMOs have leaderboards. A zombie game is no different. Days of survival, zombie kills, npc rescues, most resources gathered, items crafted, etc. Can be a part of this. Perma death is mandatory. Why Permadeath? All toons will eventually die. when they do, you can have the option to play as zombie (then go for zombie progression leaderboard stuff like : days of existence, human kills, camps conquered, gear "acquired", evolution stages ( maybe zombies evolve like others have said) Now the replayability comes in because you create a family or "House" you have to manage. You, a spouse and a child. Three slots. Spend time and resources on the family to expand playable slots. The spouse always stays home so you can always play. However, the spouse gameplay is limited (can only participate in home /village/fortress defense. Primary focus is keeping the bloodline alive - this is where an interactive metagame with other players can come in to play, but I digress). All other toons are expendable. However, you want to play these toons to show off your skills in leaderboards and unlock skills. Full loot PvP should also be part of the mix as well. Because loot is rare and death is so high - you keep what you kill. Storage space should be rare. A zombie may pick up a machete from a fresh pvp kill, but they have to figure if they should go back to a cave (with your zombie life timer clicking ) or forge ahead with your killing attacks enhanced. If your zombie body dies, your machete stays there lootable by anyone. More valuable items might have a drop protection % on it. Meaning a small chance your item falls to the ground unnoticed except you.
CYCLICAL GAMEPLAY. PERIOD BEGINS. SET TIME PASSES. GIANT ZOMBIE ONSLAUGHT. PERIOD ENDS. SERVER RESETS AND ERASES EVERYTHING EXCEPT SURVIVING PLAYERS. PVP SHOULD BE HUMAN SURVIVOR AGAINST HUMAN SURVIVORS. ORGANIZED GROUPS OF ZOMBIES ARE A LAME IDEA THAT WOULD RUIN THE GAME. READ OTHER PEOPLES POSTS.
the pac man analogy does poke my interest. Most of these MMOs have leaderboards. A zombie game is no different. Days of survival, zombie kills, npc rescues, most resources gathered, items crafted, etc. Can be a part of this. Perma death is mandatory. Why Permadeath? All toons will eventually die. when they do, you can have the option to play as zombie (then go for zombie progression leaderboard stuff like : days of existence, human kills, camps conquered, gear "acquired", evolution stages ( maybe zombies evolve like others have said) Now the replayability comes in because you create a family or "House" you have to manage. You, a spouse and a child. Three slots. Spend time and resources on the family to expand playable slots. The spouse always stays home so you can always play. However, the spouse gameplay is limited (can only participate in home /village/fortress defense. Primary focus is keeping the bloodline alive - this is where an interactive metagame with other players can come in to play, but I digress). All other toons are expendable. However, you want to play these toons to show off your skills in leaderboards and unlock skills. Full loot PvP should also be part of the mix as well. Because loot is rare and death is so high - you keep what you kill. Storage space should be rare. A zombie may pick up a machete from a fresh pvp kill, but they have to figure if they should go back to a cave (with your zombie life timer clicking ) or forge ahead with your killing attacks enhanced. If your zombie body dies, your machete stays there lootable by anyone. More valuable items might have a drop protection % on it. Meaning a small chance your item falls to the ground unnoticed except you.
CYCLICAL GAMEPLAY. PERIOD BEGINS. SET TIME PASSES. GIANT ZOMBIE ONSLAUGHT. PERIOD ENDS. SERVER RESETS AND ERASES EVERYTHING EXCEPT SURVIVING PLAYERS. PVP SHOULD BE HUMAN SURVIVOR AGAINST HUMAN SURVIVORS. ORGANIZED GROUPS OF ZOMBIES ARE A LAME IDEA THAT WOULD RUIN THE GAME. READ OTHER PEOPLES POSTS.
CAPSLOCK TURNS OFF FOR A REASON!!!!
jackass
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Wow, the article reads as a total lack of imagination. There are so many ways to get around the so called "limits" the author suggests. In fact, much of what the author assumes is incorrect anyway. I would go on, but its not even worth it. Just pathetic...
________________________________
Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
the pac man analogy does poke my interest. Most of these MMOs have leaderboards. A zombie game is no different. Days of survival, zombie kills, npc rescues, most resources gathered, items crafted, etc. Can be a part of this. Perma death is mandatory. Why Permadeath? All toons will eventually die. when they do, you can have the option to play as zombie (then go for zombie progression leaderboard stuff like : days of existence, human kills, camps conquered, gear "acquired", evolution stages ( maybe zombies evolve like others have said) Now the replayability comes in because you create a family or "House" you have to manage. You, a spouse and a child. Three slots. Spend time and resources on the family to expand playable slots. The spouse always stays home so you can always play. However, the spouse gameplay is limited (can only participate in home /village/fortress defense. Primary focus is keeping the bloodline alive - this is where an interactive metagame with other players can come in to play, but I digress). All other toons are expendable. However, you want to play these toons to show off your skills in leaderboards and unlock skills. Full loot PvP should also be part of the mix as well. Because loot is rare and death is so high - you keep what you kill. Storage space should be rare. A zombie may pick up a machete from a fresh pvp kill, but they have to figure if they should go back to a cave (with your zombie life timer clicking ) or forge ahead with your killing attacks enhanced. If your zombie body dies, your machete stays there lootable by anyone. More valuable items might have a drop protection % on it. Meaning a small chance your item falls to the ground unnoticed except you.
CYCLICAL GAMEPLAY. PERIOD BEGINS. SET TIME PASSES. GIANT ZOMBIE ONSLAUGHT. PERIOD ENDS. SERVER RESETS AND ERASES EVERYTHING EXCEPT SURVIVING PLAYERS. PVP SHOULD BE HUMAN SURVIVOR AGAINST HUMAN SURVIVORS. ORGANIZED GROUPS OF ZOMBIES ARE A LAME IDEA THAT WOULD RUIN THE GAME. READ OTHER PEOPLES POSTS.
CAPSLOCK TURNS OFF FOR A REASON!!!!
jackass
actually, caps exist for a several reasons, and somtimes its ok to use it, if someone is missing a point over and and over again. and you want to bring it to their attention by catching their eye. do caps hurt your mind or somthing? dont take it so seriously, troll. contribute, if you have any thoughts worth sharing
Death in a zombie mmo is a toughy. I think permadeath is about the only way for it to be done right but lets face it not many would like the idea of permadeath so other ideas are needed. Perhaps after death a timer starts and someone has maybe an hour to get to your corpse and get you back to a safe zone or you become a zombie and after you are killed as a zombie you have to start a new toon. When they get you back to the base you would be "cloned' and brought back though you could lose anywhere from 1% to 10% of all your skills. It would enforce some player interaction and help to keep people in line a bit. Let's face it if someone has been an asshat to everyone when he dies few people will risk their lives to save his toon.
Your Zombie lore is very one sided. Not all zombies die when shot in the head. Not all zombies infect you when they bite you ethier. There are many other zombies from all over the world. Just going with the mainstream zombies is why you may think a zombie MMO wouldn't work. I still think you could have progression somewhat with PCs. There have been some zombie movies were if you bothered to pay attention you'd notice the protagonist DOES progress from noob with shotgun to badass who can kill zombies with his bare hands. (Or just from noob to badass zombie slayer.) Even Ash was a noob in the first movie. He was a lot more cowardly too.
GO play Killing floor its a pretty good example of the kind of mechanics that could be used in an MMO today. Yes i know its a FPS but hell its a great example of how CO-OP wins out in the day against the zombie hordes.
(yeah ok not exactly zombies, but experiements is close enough :P)
I think the key is to mold the way mmos works, not the way a zombie plot would mold to the way mmos work now.
The people who came to play MMOs during or before WoW don't realize this because they came in when MMOs tried to be dumbed down and simple, but the way MMOs are right now is just dull. They work if you haven't played them for a long time or it gives you a nostalgic feeling, but if you really really think about all the MMOs you have played, you can see that they are the same.
You don't really want a zombie mmo to be the same thing as the other crappy MMOs we have to put up with. Undead Labs made it clear that its not going to be like any other MMO. They aren't making it for the PC and porting it to the console. They are making it strictly for consoles. Hopefully they'll stick to their plans and come out with something fresh because as long as theres people who have only played dumbed down games like WoW and the recent F2P MMOs, there will be other developers to cash in on it.
Just off hand I think I can figure out the motivation of both sides of the conflict in a Zombie MMO.
Humans:
Their motivation is survival in order to perpetuate the human race. Simple as that. They have the will to live and they are willing to make that will into reality. So they build up little communities, teach themselves the lost arts of <insert trade skills here> and venture out into the world to cleanse the Earth of the plague that are Zombies.
How do we handle death? I think it’s pretty simple. Treat death like EvE treats ships: your character is just one person among many replacements. He can survive for a long time if he is cautious and intelligent enough. He can learn more skills as he/she survives longer but ultimately I think the skill cap should be achieved rather early in the characters progression (like in a months or two). Why? Again, you are trying to regain the former glory of the human race and the only way to do that is to scrump like jack rabbits! What does this achieve? It gives you offspring which can act as the next chain in your line of characters. Just like in EvE, once you lose your character/ship you will need a replacement. Now we introduce your children. It’s not out of the realm of possibility to assume your adult character taught their offspring something of what they do, of the skills they have. So you may not lose all of your skills necessarily, because you taught some of them to your children, but they won’t be as proficient in them as your original character and will have to level them up once again--or choose another set of skills. Remember it won’t take long to “master” these skills because it’s understood that you will lose characters/ships on a regular basis but your offspring will always live on (for game mechanic purposes this seems the best idea).
What happens when your character dies? Well they become a mindless Zombie of random ability (ability determined by the game) and they live on until killed by some other character. It would be great to have to kill the Zombie version of Dad/Mom. Certainly would add to the RP of the game!
Zombies:
Their motivation is to eat brains and generally kill anything that isn’t them. Simple as that. I think there should be two different types of Zombies: the smart kind (these can be played by characters) and the mindless kind (think NPCs or Pets).
How do we handle skills? Again, I think it’s pretty simple. Mutations! Just like being Human, the Zombies can learn skills or tactics for survival. Some Zombies will level skills which allow them to “motivate” other Zombie into attacking. Some Zombies can eat the corpses of other Zombies or Humans to regenerate health (possibly just a portion of health), other Zombies can <fill in your wildest dream>. You can cater your Zombie to your play style and perhaps incorporate several different skill trees (think original SWG).
What happens when your character dies? They die of course! No redemption, no second chance, no bloodline to pass on knowledge to. They just die but it’s no big deal because Zombies are being created every single minute. Think EvE again, once you die there is another corpse which rises up and becomes you. The Zombie skills will have to be trained once again but it won’t be too difficult because this inevitable death will be built into the game mechanics.
I could go on but this addresses two of the major “difficulties” pointed out in the article. I for one would gladly play a game like this. Sounds like fun!
To answer Mr Webb’s concerns I am sure we will start by fighting zombie rats, the zombie dragons will only be for end game.
I don’t see the issue with guns, if it was a fps game you can miss with a shot gun, or not do enough damage to kill, that’s fine.
Pretty obviously a zombie MMO will not follow the rules of a zombie film, so such comparison is a moot point.
I see the MMO as being played in islands of human homesteads amid the zombie hordes, so it won’t have the classic zombie movie film, but I can live with that, I am a survivor after all.
Why so tight themed ideas? MMO have to be more like virtual worlds than a themed game. Whats the point to make a MMO with tight theme and get bored a month after you play? Isnt that the point of most single player games? To play it from the start to the end and get the next one?
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
For starters, make it a more general horror MMO with heavy emphasis on zombies (so there can be variety -- vampires, were-beasts, spirits), . Only parts of the story are movie-style "survival mode". These story parts need teamwork of some kind -- maybe objective based rather than DPS/tank/healer type teamwork. One party member is a booby-trapper, one is a barricade specialist, one is wicked fast & accurate with a shotgun.
For the zombie-type survival parts, keep the headshot mechanic. It's not individual enemies that take 20 shots to kill, but waves of weak enemies that have a tendency to swarm. One of the things I miss about the original DOOM was fast-paced one-shotting imps and sergeants with the shotgun. In subsequent FPS's, every mob takes multiple hits to kill and something was lost. HG:L got close to it again, in certain areas. Give me lots of weak mobs and let me kill them really fast, but miss one too many shots or get sloppy with your aiming and you're overwhelmed.
I think the possibility of getting infected with the zombie virus could add something cool to the game. Since we're professional zombie killers, we know that getting bitten is very very bad, so we have suitable clothing (steel mesh like shark divers wear). Most of the time you die, you die from damage/blood loss, not being bitten. On the occasions when you DO get bitten, you are incentivized to turn on your teammates / forced into some kind of monster-play like situation. And since you're trained/geared up, YOU are not one-shottable. Eventually either the party wipes (and those who "turned Z" get extra XP/reward for kills made while turned), or some party members survive, killing all the turned, and THEY get extra/bonus rewards. Those that don't survive, whether turned or still human, respawn as human. Set it up like a clone system (a la Eve) to explain why dying "cures" you of the virus.
If you don't want to have people turn on their own, then have them reanimate in someone else's instance to try to make THEM wipe. You could even have a secondary char development system where success in zombie mode gives you zombie skills. I think it could be great. And if there are vampire or lycan survival modes, you reanimate as one of those if you get bitten.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
Great thread, & I agree with most responders about whether a mmoz is possible & how to do it right, not the OP. It would really need to define its own genre & move as far away from the WoW-factor stagnant cesspool of mmos out there now.
Only other thing to add: isn't there an angels vs demons mmo already out there...called Aion lol? I too would love a A vs D mmo ala In Nomine, or perhaps a proper attempt at a Shadowrun mmo, not that I'll get my wish any time soon. Roll on SW:TOR, GW2 and/or D3!
They say that right before you die, your life flashes before your eyes. That's true, even for a blind man. ^DareDevil^
Dont know if this has been mentioned before, there is a good mmorpg called Dead Frontier, its browser based. As for player motivations, survival. The whole leveling ordeal is there, and an extra motivation is to get better stuff to be able to survive
To perhaps run contrary to the general feel of the article, I think there are many ways that a Zombie MMO could be made engaging and fun to play. Just some ideas off the top of my head.
3 faction style game, with human survivors, human reavers, and the undead. Survivors would find their location (staking out a claim to build their outpost in a resource rich and defensible location), while human reavers are like the Mad Max gangs, unable or unwilling to build, and just out to take.
Reavers would be unable to build their own outposts past a most basic level, and when taking over a survivors outpost, it would slowly degrade as they rob it of resources before moving onto their next victims. For a time, they'd have access to whatever the survivors had built, but in time it would all decay.
The Zombies, of course, would be out to get everyone, and perhaps they could figure in some sort of undead evolution, similar to what was touched on in Land of the Dead, where the Zombies slowly become more self aware/intelligent/mutated or whatever, and therefore more dangerous?
Comments
the authors arguements are very superficial. i dont even know why he himself thinks what he does. hes just sort of mocking a game that was never made, as tho he is unable to concieve of an idea larger than what he thinks is stupid.
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Wait... did he say something about zombie level? WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU MAKE A ZOMBIE MMO LEVEL BASED!? There is a thread buried somewhere on this forum where a poster gave a GREAT breakdown of new and very innovative ideas to work with this genre. One was a "dungeon" crawl where you would need to break into a facility and a timer would start, the longer the timer runs the more zombies have picked up on your sent and are intent on making you lunch. I apologize to the original poster of this idea but it was too long ago. There was even discussion during the thread about exits of these areas. While a facility may have x amount of exits, only 1 or 2 is actually unbarred for whatever reason. Finding these exits would force players to either send a group of scouts to find working exits and report back to the group. The scouts would then have to defend these exits while the rest of the team attempts to furiously loot whatever they can without being overrun. Conversely, the whole group could attempt to attain as much resources/loot/etc as possible but the exits would be unknown and it would be much more frantic and exciting.
A zombie MMO would have to be skill based with VERY serious consequences for death. However, the run of the mill zombies you would run into outside of your rickety encampment would be trivial, if nothing else it would be target practice. Moreover, zombies would need to be able to attack and DESTROY these safe havens forcing the players to get out of dodge and set up camp somewhere else. Resources would be rare and highly contested by the various factions that would inevitably pop up.
The "endgame" (how I loathe that term) would have to be the accumulation of resources and the eradication of the zombie hordes from vast complexes such as an oil refinery or a water treatment plant. In theory this genre and what it could do is mouthwatering for MMO burnouts like myself. However, the scope for a project like this is huge. You would literally need a world similar in size to Earth. There has to be places to run and settlements to be created or taken from hordes of hungry zombies.
The key to a zombie MMO is capturing the fear and panic caused by the undead hordes. Death must be costly and avoided at all costs, but death cannot be so brutal that only hardcore gamers would even dare venture out past the mine fields. A succession of children could potentially fill this role. If you die you would spawn as a child with a % of the skills your "parent" character had. I'm sure people will HATE this idea claiming that they shouldn't have to lose what they had worked hard to earn... blah blah blah...see various posts on full loot, perma death etc.
Capturing the essence of a zombie apocalypse in an MMO must be similar to the chaos and dread that movie patrons experience. What a better way to do this than removing permanent safe havens. Once zombies realize your hold up in the old highschool with scores of others the zombies will come. Your success depends on whether you outpost has secured the necessary components for survival. Did you go scavenge for ammo? Is there enough fuel for the wall mounted flame-throwers? Were the doors/gates/etc reinforced?
Unfortunately, after reading this article it is clear that a zombie MMO is a terrible idea for the current sea of game devs out there. A zombie MMO where you spawn at a safepoint with all of your gear and limbs intact is just awful. There needs to be real consequences that will send a tinge of fear up your spine as you realize what you thought was 5 zombies is actually 50 and you are not sure which way leads to safety (Oh ya, NO MINI-MAP! Bring back Cartography!).
There is just so much to say about this genre... I know some will agree and many more will disagree, but without terror and consequences a true zombie MMO will never arise.
(sorry for the ragtag nature of this post, just typing what comes to mind.)
EDIT: Took me so long to write this that many of the ideas I proposed have already been stated. I have to say the posts made before my own are very interesting and give me a glimmer of hope for a zombie MMO.
"having" to do anything is not somthing MMO player generally like. i dont think forced turning would be a popular option at all, tho it certainly sounds cool on the surface. maybe as a limited time option. but why would anyone want to play as a shambling and easily killed gimp? with your former allies shooting you and running away faster than you?
the zombie aspect would have to just be a setting like a type of weather effect, this would have to be a pvp game, with zombie hordes just adding tension and difficulty to the gather and exploring aspect of solo or GvG.
a close ended cyclical period would be the only way to deal with mounting tension, shared by all players of a certain revolution. rising tension and scarcity of resources is the fuel for PvP, and if zombie spawn faster and faster the closer to the end, gathering supplies and building defences/fighting other groups for good hideouts for the final massive attack would be the best way to mitigate struggle and achievement.
the pac man analogy does poke my interest. Most of these MMOs have leaderboards. A zombie game is no different. Days of survival, zombie kills, npc rescues, most resources gathered, items crafted, etc. Can be a part of this. Perma death is mandatory.
Why Permadeath? All toons will eventually die. when they do, you can have the option to play as zombie (then go for zombie progression leaderboard stuff like : days of existence, human kills, camps conquered, gear "acquired", evolution stages ( maybe zombies evolve like others have said)
Now the replayability comes in because you create a family or "House" you have to manage. You, a spouse and a child. Three slots. Spend time and resources on the family to expand playable slots. The spouse always stays home so you can always play. However, the spouse gameplay is limited (can only participate in home /village/fortress defense. Primary focus is keeping the bloodline alive - this is where an interactive metagame with other players can come in to play, but I digress). All other toons are expendable. However, you want to play these toons to show off your skills in leaderboards and unlock skills.
Full loot PvP should also be part of the mix as well. Because loot is rare and death is so high - you keep what you kill. Storage space should be rare. A zombie may pick up a machete from a fresh pvp kill, but they have to figure if they should go back to a cave (with your zombie life timer clicking ) or forge ahead with your killing attacks enhanced. If your zombie body dies, your machete stays there lootable by anyone. More valuable items might have a drop protection % on it. Meaning a small chance your item falls to the ground unnoticed except you.
Finally - Best site for Chuck Norris
http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/
Quite interesting concept, the "family" based character slots and way to dodge permanent death... of your bloodline.
CYCLICAL GAMEPLAY. PERIOD BEGINS. SET TIME PASSES. GIANT ZOMBIE ONSLAUGHT. PERIOD ENDS. SERVER RESETS AND ERASES EVERYTHING EXCEPT SURVIVING PLAYERS. PVP SHOULD BE HUMAN SURVIVOR AGAINST HUMAN SURVIVORS. ORGANIZED GROUPS OF ZOMBIES ARE A LAME IDEA THAT WOULD RUIN THE GAME. READ OTHER PEOPLES POSTS.
CYCLICAL GAMEPLAY. PERIOD BEGINS. SET TIME PASSES. GIANT ZOMBIE ONSLAUGHT. PERIOD ENDS. SERVER RESETS AND ERASES EVERYTHING EXCEPT SURVIVING PLAYERS. PVP SHOULD BE HUMAN SURVIVOR AGAINST HUMAN SURVIVORS. ORGANIZED GROUPS OF ZOMBIES ARE A LAME IDEA THAT WOULD RUIN THE GAME. READ OTHER PEOPLES POSTS.
CAPSLOCK TURNS OFF FOR A REASON!!!!
jackass
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Wow, the article reads as a total lack of imagination. There are so many ways to get around the so called "limits" the author suggests. In fact, much of what the author assumes is incorrect anyway. I would go on, but its not even worth it. Just pathetic...
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Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
CYCLICAL GAMEPLAY. PERIOD BEGINS. SET TIME PASSES. GIANT ZOMBIE ONSLAUGHT. PERIOD ENDS. SERVER RESETS AND ERASES EVERYTHING EXCEPT SURVIVING PLAYERS. PVP SHOULD BE HUMAN SURVIVOR AGAINST HUMAN SURVIVORS. ORGANIZED GROUPS OF ZOMBIES ARE A LAME IDEA THAT WOULD RUIN THE GAME. READ OTHER PEOPLES POSTS.
CAPSLOCK TURNS OFF FOR A REASON!!!!
jackass
actually, caps exist for a several reasons, and somtimes its ok to use it, if someone is missing a point over and and over again. and you want to bring it to their attention by catching their eye. do caps hurt your mind or somthing? dont take it so seriously, troll. contribute, if you have any thoughts worth sharing
Death in a zombie mmo is a toughy. I think permadeath is about the only way for it to be done right but lets face it not many would like the idea of permadeath so other ideas are needed. Perhaps after death a timer starts and someone has maybe an hour to get to your corpse and get you back to a safe zone or you become a zombie and after you are killed as a zombie you have to start a new toon. When they get you back to the base you would be "cloned' and brought back though you could lose anywhere from 1% to 10% of all your skills. It would enforce some player interaction and help to keep people in line a bit. Let's face it if someone has been an asshat to everyone when he dies few people will risk their lives to save his toon.
Your Zombie lore is very one sided. Not all zombies die when shot in the head. Not all zombies infect you when they bite you ethier. There are many other zombies from all over the world. Just going with the mainstream zombies is why you may think a zombie MMO wouldn't work. I still think you could have progression somewhat with PCs. There have been some zombie movies were if you bothered to pay attention you'd notice the protagonist DOES progress from noob with shotgun to badass who can kill zombies with his bare hands. (Or just from noob to badass zombie slayer.) Even Ash was a noob in the first movie. He was a lot more cowardly too.
Personally, I would like to play an Angels vs Demons MMO. I think it would be fun!
Also, Zombie MMO sounds like a great time and lots of PEWPEWPEW!
GO play Killing floor its a pretty good example of the kind of mechanics that could be used in an MMO today. Yes i know its a FPS but hell its a great example of how CO-OP wins out in the day against the zombie hordes.
(yeah ok not exactly zombies, but experiements is close enough :P)
Sorry for the repost but no one would play the angels XD
I think the key is to mold the way mmos works, not the way a zombie plot would mold to the way mmos work now.
The people who came to play MMOs during or before WoW don't realize this because they came in when MMOs tried to be dumbed down and simple, but the way MMOs are right now is just dull. They work if you haven't played them for a long time or it gives you a nostalgic feeling, but if you really really think about all the MMOs you have played, you can see that they are the same.
You don't really want a zombie mmo to be the same thing as the other crappy MMOs we have to put up with. Undead Labs made it clear that its not going to be like any other MMO. They aren't making it for the PC and porting it to the console. They are making it strictly for consoles. Hopefully they'll stick to their plans and come out with something fresh because as long as theres people who have only played dumbed down games like WoW and the recent F2P MMOs, there will be other developers to cash in on it.
Just off hand I think I can figure out the motivation of both sides of the conflict in a Zombie MMO.
Humans:
Their motivation is survival in order to perpetuate the human race. Simple as that. They have the will to live and they are willing to make that will into reality. So they build up little communities, teach themselves the lost arts of <insert trade skills here> and venture out into the world to cleanse the Earth of the plague that are Zombies.
How do we handle death? I think it’s pretty simple. Treat death like EvE treats ships: your character is just one person among many replacements. He can survive for a long time if he is cautious and intelligent enough. He can learn more skills as he/she survives longer but ultimately I think the skill cap should be achieved rather early in the characters progression (like in a months or two). Why? Again, you are trying to regain the former glory of the human race and the only way to do that is to scrump like jack rabbits! What does this achieve? It gives you offspring which can act as the next chain in your line of characters. Just like in EvE, once you lose your character/ship you will need a replacement. Now we introduce your children. It’s not out of the realm of possibility to assume your adult character taught their offspring something of what they do, of the skills they have. So you may not lose all of your skills necessarily, because you taught some of them to your children, but they won’t be as proficient in them as your original character and will have to level them up once again--or choose another set of skills. Remember it won’t take long to “master” these skills because it’s understood that you will lose characters/ships on a regular basis but your offspring will always live on (for game mechanic purposes this seems the best idea).
What happens when your character dies? Well they become a mindless Zombie of random ability (ability determined by the game) and they live on until killed by some other character. It would be great to have to kill the Zombie version of Dad/Mom. Certainly would add to the RP of the game!
Zombies:
Their motivation is to eat brains and generally kill anything that isn’t them. Simple as that. I think there should be two different types of Zombies: the smart kind (these can be played by characters) and the mindless kind (think NPCs or Pets).
How do we handle skills? Again, I think it’s pretty simple. Mutations! Just like being Human, the Zombies can learn skills or tactics for survival. Some Zombies will level skills which allow them to “motivate” other Zombie into attacking. Some Zombies can eat the corpses of other Zombies or Humans to regenerate health (possibly just a portion of health), other Zombies can <fill in your wildest dream>. You can cater your Zombie to your play style and perhaps incorporate several different skill trees (think original SWG).
What happens when your character dies? They die of course! No redemption, no second chance, no bloodline to pass on knowledge to. They just die but it’s no big deal because Zombies are being created every single minute. Think EvE again, once you die there is another corpse which rises up and becomes you. The Zombie skills will have to be trained once again but it won’t be too difficult because this inevitable death will be built into the game mechanics.
I could go on but this addresses two of the major “difficulties” pointed out in the article. I for one would gladly play a game like this. Sounds like fun!
To answer Mr Webb’s concerns I am sure we will start by fighting zombie rats, the zombie dragons will only be for end game.
I don’t see the issue with guns, if it was a fps game you can miss with a shot gun, or not do enough damage to kill, that’s fine.
Pretty obviously a zombie MMO will not follow the rules of a zombie film, so such comparison is a moot point.
I see the MMO as being played in islands of human homesteads amid the zombie hordes, so it won’t have the classic zombie movie film, but I can live with that, I am a survivor after all.
Why so tight themed ideas? MMO have to be more like virtual worlds than a themed game. Whats the point to make a MMO with tight theme and get bored a month after you play? Isnt that the point of most single player games? To play it from the start to the end and get the next one?
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
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LordOfDarkDesire
For starters, make it a more general horror MMO with heavy emphasis on zombies (so there can be variety -- vampires, were-beasts, spirits), . Only parts of the story are movie-style "survival mode". These story parts need teamwork of some kind -- maybe objective based rather than DPS/tank/healer type teamwork. One party member is a booby-trapper, one is a barricade specialist, one is wicked fast & accurate with a shotgun.
For the zombie-type survival parts, keep the headshot mechanic. It's not individual enemies that take 20 shots to kill, but waves of weak enemies that have a tendency to swarm. One of the things I miss about the original DOOM was fast-paced one-shotting imps and sergeants with the shotgun. In subsequent FPS's, every mob takes multiple hits to kill and something was lost. HG:L got close to it again, in certain areas. Give me lots of weak mobs and let me kill them really fast, but miss one too many shots or get sloppy with your aiming and you're overwhelmed.
I think the possibility of getting infected with the zombie virus could add something cool to the game. Since we're professional zombie killers, we know that getting bitten is very very bad, so we have suitable clothing (steel mesh like shark divers wear). Most of the time you die, you die from damage/blood loss, not being bitten. On the occasions when you DO get bitten, you are incentivized to turn on your teammates / forced into some kind of monster-play like situation. And since you're trained/geared up, YOU are not one-shottable. Eventually either the party wipes (and those who "turned Z" get extra XP/reward for kills made while turned), or some party members survive, killing all the turned, and THEY get extra/bonus rewards. Those that don't survive, whether turned or still human, respawn as human. Set it up like a clone system (a la Eve) to explain why dying "cures" you of the virus.
If you don't want to have people turn on their own, then have them reanimate in someone else's instance to try to make THEM wipe. You could even have a secondary char development system where success in zombie mode gives you zombie skills. I think it could be great. And if there are vampire or lycan survival modes, you reanimate as one of those if you get bitten.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
Great thread, & I agree with most responders about whether a mmoz is possible & how to do it right, not the OP. It would really need to define its own genre & move as far away from the WoW-factor stagnant cesspool of mmos out there now.
Only other thing to add: isn't there an angels vs demons mmo already out there...called Aion lol?
I too would love a A vs D mmo ala In Nomine, or perhaps a proper attempt at a Shadowrun mmo, not that I'll get my wish any time soon. Roll on SW:TOR, GW2 and/or D3!
They say that right before you die, your life flashes before your eyes. That's true, even for a blind man. ^DareDevil^
Hmm..Zombies and Undead are a natural part of most MMO's today..
And when Halloween arrives most of them turn into some sort of zombie nightmare...
But it isn't very exiting as the game uses the same old rules as the original game.
A zombie game needs to be like .."Left 4 Dead" frantic and Insane action..
Sure you could make an MMO of this but it woudn't hold people's interesst for long I think..
/junker
Dont know if this has been mentioned before, there is a good mmorpg called Dead Frontier, its browser based. As for player motivations, survival. The whole leveling ordeal is there, and an extra motivation is to get better stuff to be able to survive
To perhaps run contrary to the general feel of the article, I think there are many ways that a Zombie MMO could be made engaging and fun to play. Just some ideas off the top of my head.
3 faction style game, with human survivors, human reavers, and the undead. Survivors would find their location (staking out a claim to build their outpost in a resource rich and defensible location), while human reavers are like the Mad Max gangs, unable or unwilling to build, and just out to take.
Reavers would be unable to build their own outposts past a most basic level, and when taking over a survivors outpost, it would slowly degrade as they rob it of resources before moving onto their next victims. For a time, they'd have access to whatever the survivors had built, but in time it would all decay.
The Zombies, of course, would be out to get everyone, and perhaps they could figure in some sort of undead evolution, similar to what was touched on in Land of the Dead, where the Zombies slowly become more self aware/intelligent/mutated or whatever, and therefore more dangerous?