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PVPing With Roaches
Rikimaru_X
Member UncommonPosts: 11,718
Back when I started getting a feel of PVP in mmo's was about 2004 I think when I started playing Tantra Online (PH Version) and now I passed though a hand full of MMO's all the way to AION. AION has brought my PVP fun outside the box yet being a console gamer I have found something to be a big problem in the PVP community of MMORPG's. Roaches is the problem. People running too much from a beatdown.
Now you can say this is part of the game, but if a player tries to gank me and they failed at it, and it becomes a 1v1, at least man up to fight a 1v1 without trying to run when your at low health. Your gonna die, bend over and take it. Sometimes to me its like playing Halo or Lost Planet over again on the X360. We got the people who just run and run and run across the map to run by some friends for help in a 1v1 fight. I usually find running acceptable in a situation where your outnumbered or a high level person is about to/trying to gank you.
Maybe MMO's always been this way, maybe not. I'm still wet behind the ears to know the nerd lingo, but still I just think roaching out on a good fair fight for the sake of anything you might lose is silly. Don't come to my faction/race/enemy area for PVP and run because you picked with the wrong person. You came over here to fight, not to run as if throwing an empty soda can at a cat. Even those high levels when they gank and then they face up with an even match and run. Just fight.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
Comments
Let me first start by say I found this post EXTREMELY hilarious lol.
I agree with you to an extend though, I have played FFXI, LOTRO, WOW and AOIN, and have come to love pvping the most out of anything else I could do in the game. In fact, 90% of the reason I make sure I gear well is so when I pvp I come out on top but "roaching" is not necessarily a bad thing depending on the class you play, I believe if I attack a mage with my deathknight, that mage knows if I get close enough it's no longer a fair fight because I could quite possible kill him/her in 2-3 crits. Therfore, I would expect them to try to run away instead of standing there taking the hurt whiles I mind smash and strangulate them just so they can't cast spells to defend themselves otherwise.
Another example is when I play rogue and I constantly gank people, I sometimes have trouble with retribution paladins breaking free of my stun-lock and proceed with whooping up on me, in that case depending on my health I will not hesitate to vanish, back-off, and restart my rotation. You better believe if that pally is out of my rogues league after I try the second time, there is no way I'm going to stand around and take a beating lol, sorry just not my style, especially as a rogue.
I played as an assassin on Aion up until lvl 32 and I have been ganked by higher lvl assassins who in turn sometimes had to run away because I did not back down, but I have also ganked a few clerics that made me sorry I ever did and I admit I tried to haul tail away as fast as I can simply because in Aion, I was always going through the portal which leads to the other factions territory for the sole purpose of completing a quest, when I see someone standing in my way I'm not gonna go around them regardless of lvl (in Aion you can't tell the other guys lvl) but instead I will try and go through them and burn them down, so if that fails and they are stronger, then I admit I tried to speed away because I don't want to have to come all the way back through the opstacles I alrdy defeated to get to the point where I died.
I do agree with you though, when it comes to 1v1 under other circumstances, and instead of fighting they run where more friends are, that pisses me off because I feel cheated, especially when all I needed was that last hit.
I think the worsed thing someone could do in a pvp fight is run to friends when losing, and thats up there right beside sucking down a potion. Who the hell uses potions during duels, I despise that. If I had 100 poitons on me I still wouldnt use during a duel, potions in my opinion are only used while questing in the field. When I didnt know much about pvping in my early days I use to do that, and admittedly I felt guilty, I didn't feel like I really won because I used something to win which was not originally apart of my characters skill set. I try to be as honest as possible when I meet a player from the other faction. I will beat you with everything I got but if you can out-do me then whatever, you win, I won't run to friends and I won't suck potions.
BUTTTT!! If I gank you because you were in my way and I find I can't win... well hopefuly you don't get offended but I would incapacitate you and run like heck, and more than likely I would run in the direction where my quest is, that way I can still rez if you still manage to kill me and be closer to my goal.
This post is too long.... lol later.
All is fair in PvP.
If they run, your game should have a mechanic that allows you to catch them. Ever try to run from a warrior in WoW? They'll charge you. A rogue will use his sprint to catch up to you. A priest will fear you. A shaman will hit you with frost shock etc.
Doesn't Aion have similar mechanics?
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Yeah, Aion does have those similarities, however in WOW, if I'm playing rogue I can use a trinket, or if I'm spec'd in combat my sprint will remove any movement impairment effect and I could also vanish. In WOW, if a warrior charges at me on my DK, and proceeds to stun me I can always use "Everyman for himself" which removes the stun, then cast chains of ice on the warrior and continue to escape, I know this because I run Warsong gulch a lot. The thing is when these skills are used to chicken out of a fight by running to friends when the person clearly thought they stood a chance in the beginning, or using potions.
Your statement of "All is fair in PvP" is quite true, but it's just frustrating sometimes when people do one of those two things, then turn around and does a rude emote at you, just makes you wanna hunt them down and kill them repeatedly just to make up for it.
Yeah, Aion does have those similarities, however in WOW, if I'm playing rogue I can use a trinket, or if I'm spec'd in combat my sprint will remove any movement impairment effect and I could also vanish. In WOW, if a warrior charges at me on my DK, and proceeds to stun me I can always use "Everyman for himself" which removes the stun, then cast chains of ice on the warrior and continue to escape, I know this because I run Warsong gulch a lot. The thing is when these skills are used to chicken out of a fight by running to friends when the person clearly thought they stood a chance in the beginning, or using potions.
That's true, you can trinket out of a stun, fear or movement impairing effect.
Thing is, now your trinket is on a three minute cooldown and can't be used.
The warrior can immediately intercept if he knows what he is doing. Intimidating shout you which is a warrior's fear. Rend you so you can't vanish. And his charge will refresh in what? 30 seconds?
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Yeah, Aion does have those similarities, however in WOW, if I'm playing rogue I can use a trinket, or if I'm spec'd in combat my sprint will remove any movement impairment effect and I could also vanish. In WOW, if a warrior charges at me on my DK, and proceeds to stun me I can always use "Everyman for himself" which removes the stun, then cast chains of ice on the warrior and continue to escape, I know this because I run Warsong gulch a lot. The thing is when these skills are used to chicken out of a fight by running to friends when the person clearly thought they stood a chance in the beginning, or using potions.
That's true, you can trinket out of a stun, fear or movement impairing effect.
Thing is, now your trinket is on a three minute cooldown and can't be used.
The warrior can immediately intercept if he knows what he is doing. Intimidating shout you which is a warrior's fear. Rend you so you can't vanish. And his charge will refresh in what? 30 seconds?
Yeah, so true, but often times that warrior is so caught up in trying to pound me into the ground he doesnt expect me to react to his initial charge.
This is how it normally goes for me: After grabing a flag in WSG for example, I hit sprint after I get outside to get more distance out of it. when warriors manage to charge me I blow "Everyman for himself" (No trinket, I did a race change to hume) and emediately blind them, if blind does not work I gouge them, hit my evasion boost, and continue to run like a bat out of hell because normally I may still have like 3 seconds on sprint but if I don't it would still be hard for other melee to touch me with evasion boost up. If all this takes place too early in the field then I don't make it unless a healer shows up, but if I get close enough to our flag room then stopping me will be next to impossible uless your some over-powered pally.
But back to the subject at hand in regards to running away, the above mentioned situation is certainly a moment where you don't wanna stand and fight, but it just shows how every class can get away and chicken out of a fair fight.
My lvl 80 druid is a master of escaping all movement imparement effect, all I have to do is shapeshift between cats or bear form and hit dash in the mean time, lol.
Gankers will always run when they find out they don't have an easy kill; that's the point of the way they play. They'll NEVER attack a person that would put them at risk of losing, even if the chance is somewhere around 20%. Why would you expect them to uncharacteristically lie in the bed they made?
Actually there is no such thing as 'fair' in PvP. The concept is strictly based on conventions players come up with and depened on all the participants sharing the same conventions.
Obviously, if you cannot kill the attacker before he 'retreats' you are not good enough to get the kill and do not deserve it. Fair.
If you are not smart/social/prepared enough to call in extra help when chasing down someone, it is only fair that he gets his friends to even out the fight (if you are more skilled/powerful than him then it is not an even fight and he has every right to make it fair).
If two people follow different conventions then the entire concept of 'fair' goes out the window.
Gankers will always run when they find out they don't have an easy kill; that's the point of the way they play. They'll NEVER attack a person that would put them at risk of losing, even if the chance is somewhere around 20%. Why would you expect them to uncharacteristically lie in the bed they made?
Aaw man c'maaawn, I'm a ganker, I know people don't like it but I am a ganker and I love it, but I am by no means afraid to gank anyone anytime, I know you weren't talking about me but I just thought it was kinda funny lol.
In fact I recall many occasions seeing a group of hordes gathered around and I would sprint while stealthed, sap one, kidney shot another and blind another, THEN proceed to kill the guy who got kidney shot. This obviuosly does not work frequently and ends in my demise, but I was no punk who would walk away...though I may vanish and try to refresh lol. True gankers would not back down from a mischevious moment, we gank for kicks and also to have them say "Damn that rogue was good to get us all like that"
People who gives up a good chance to gank because they may lose don't know the adrenalin rush they would get if they just did it and get it over with, even when they laugh at me because I get stunned out by a pally and desimated I don't care, that just makes me want to hunt that one guy the whole time and get a nice crit off him.
Anyhow, take it easy on gankers, we need some love too ya know.
Aaw man c'maaawn, I'm a ganker, I know people don't like it but I am a ganker and I love it, but I am by no means afraid to gank anyone anytime, I know you weren't talking about me but I just thought it was kinda funny lol.
In fact I recall many occasions seeing a group of hordes gathered around and I would sprint while stealthed, sap one, kidney shot another and blind another, THEN proceed to kill the guy who got kidney shot. This obviuosly does not work frequently and ends in my demise, but I was no punk who would walk away...though I may vanish and try to refresh lol. True gankers would not back down from a mischevious moment, we gank for kicks and also to have them say "Damn that rogue was good to get us all like that"
People who gives up a good chance to gank because they may lose don't know the adrenalin rush they would get if they just did it and get it over with, even when they laugh at me because I get stunned out by a pally and desimated I don't care, that just makes me want to hunt that one guy the whole time and get a nice crit off him.
Anyhow, take it easy on gankers, we need some love too ya know.
I guess I wouldn't technically call that ganking, the opposite really, unless they were significantly lower level. Sneak attacks aren't ganking; why on earth should a rogue not use their best weapon against a tank?
Using strategy to overcome unlikely odds is quite the opposite of ganking.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ganking
What i found silly is that you are trying to decide how someone else should play the game.
Aaw man c'maaawn, I'm a ganker, I know people don't like it but I am a ganker and I love it, but I am by no means afraid to gank anyone anytime, I know you weren't talking about me but I just thought it was kinda funny lol.
In fact I recall many occasions seeing a group of hordes gathered around and I would sprint while stealthed, sap one, kidney shot another and blind another, THEN proceed to kill the guy who got kidney shot. This obviuosly does not work frequently and ends in my demise, but I was no punk who would walk away...though I may vanish and try to refresh lol. True gankers would not back down from a mischevious moment, we gank for kicks and also to have them say "Damn that rogue was good to get us all like that"
People who gives up a good chance to gank because they may lose don't know the adrenalin rush they would get if they just did it and get it over with, even when they laugh at me because I get stunned out by a pally and desimated I don't care, that just makes me want to hunt that one guy the whole time and get a nice crit off him.
Anyhow, take it easy on gankers, we need some love too ya know.
I guess I wouldn't technically call that ganking, the opposite really, unless they were significantly lower level. Sneak attacks aren't ganking; why on earth should a rogue not use their best weapon against a tank?
Using strategy to overcome unlikely odds is quite the opposite of ganking.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ganking
I'll have to check that URL when I get home, won't let me do it from this PC.
Anyhow, I think my perception if gank may be a bit different then, but if I want to kill a priest surrounded by 2 other players, I still consider it ganking if I incapacitate the other two just to kill that priest.
I just consider it a gank because they had no clue I was anywhere around until things start happening, then finally one of them dies, thats a gank to me lol.
I can recall people being 5 lvls higher than me and I would still sneak them, knowing full well I may not survive the assault, like those damn shammans, when they get free from stun they can put a hurting on you, but I still gank them because if they can survive my attack it just means I need to get better.
What do you consider ganking if not sneak attacks? I just wanna know.
To some people, it isn't how you play the game, but whether you win or lose. While low risk PVP games like WOW or Aion might make people more willing to stick it out to the death regardless, in a game with drop looting you are just talking crazy and winning is the only thing that matters.
I recall in DAOC they tracked and published your kills and losses stats for all to see, so I made sure I rarely died, even if I had to run away and had an outrageous won loss ratio. Didn't mean I was good at PVP at all, meant I was great at knowing when the odds had turned against me and I beat feet for the hills.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
See that's something I can understand, but for example in my current mmo AION, it's VERY LOW RISK and even where there is no risk like in a dredg battle it happens. See I'm not saying people to change the way they play or demanding it. If you want to be a roach, be my guest, but I'll stomp you. I just feel that if it hurts one's ego to be shot down in an even fight that nobody will ever know about possibly then I feel bad for you. See in Aion I mean getting killed by a high rank and you are a low rank, it's not going to hurt you.
In such a low-risk game it seems people are less likely to fight. Even funnier when a group of 10 camps a town till 10 comes out and the other group starts running after about 5 of them get killed. It's like a group of squirrels standing in the highway. I find all of this funny, but to me defeat is something i soak up with a sponge, but I know when it comes to a lot of MMO players and hardcore players they take it to heart. So they don't want to be put to shame if they try so hard to do it to somebody else.
Ganking is fine, because I play an Assassin, but when I gank and it goes wrong I'm not running.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
Aaw man c'maaawn, I'm a ganker, I know people don't like it but I am a ganker and I love it, but I am by no means afraid to gank anyone anytime, I know you weren't talking about me but I just thought it was kinda funny lol.
In fact I recall many occasions seeing a group of hordes gathered around and I would sprint while stealthed, sap one, kidney shot another and blind another, THEN proceed to kill the guy who got kidney shot. This obviuosly does not work frequently and ends in my demise, but I was no punk who would walk away...though I may vanish and try to refresh lol. True gankers would not back down from a mischevious moment, we gank for kicks and also to have them say "Damn that rogue was good to get us all like that"
People who gives up a good chance to gank because they may lose don't know the adrenalin rush they would get if they just did it and get it over with, even when they laugh at me because I get stunned out by a pally and desimated I don't care, that just makes me want to hunt that one guy the whole time and get a nice crit off him.
Anyhow, take it easy on gankers, we need some love too ya know.
I guess I wouldn't technically call that ganking, the opposite really, unless they were significantly lower level. Sneak attacks aren't ganking; why on earth should a rogue not use their best weapon against a tank?
Using strategy to overcome unlikely odds is quite the opposite of ganking.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ganking
I'll have to check that URL when I get home, won't let me do it from this PC.
Anyhow, I think my perception if gank may be a bit different then, but if I want to kill a priest surrounded by 2 other players, I still consider it ganking if I incapacitate the other two just to kill that priest.
I just consider it a gank because they had no clue I was anywhere around until things start happening, then finally one of them dies, thats a gank to me lol.
I can recall people being 5 lvls higher than me and I would still sneak them, knowing full well I may not survive the assault, like those damn shammans, when they get free from stun they can put a hurting on you, but I still gank them because if they can survive my attack it just means I need to get better.
What do you consider ganking if not sneak attacks? I just wanna know.
Ganking is attacking a player that you know has little-to-no chance of beating you, i.e., seeking out an unfair fight like finding a player several levels below you, or joining up with others to attack a single player.
What you're talking about is using the Rogue's strengths. Sneak attacks are not ganking. A level 80 going after a level 60 is ganking. 6 level 80s attacking a single level 80 is ganking.
The game mechanics are the rules of the game. If you dont' like the features of a particular game, play something else.
If you can chug a potion, or run, that's the game. If the developers didnt' want you to be able to drink a potion, or to run from a fight, then they wouldn't code that into the game.
It's really that simple. If you can do it, it's part of the game. If the developers didn't want to allow you to do it, then they wouldnt' have added that feature.
How easy is it to disable potion drinking during a fight, or to disable running during a fight? I'm sure I could write the scripts myself. The rules of the game are what they are.