Originally posted by VultureSkull What will Cryptic benefit if i get a life time sub and quit before a year and a half? They will have gotten more money from you than you would have paid in monthly sub fees. It is not as if they will then decrease the resources they put intothe game will they? Or decrease server capacity will they? Stop being cynical about this offer, it is a choice and it is a reward, from the consumers point of view, to bulk buying. I bet you buy in bulk with other goods so why not MMO subs, do you go to the supermarket and buy individual cans of beer instead of a pack of beer that is cheaper ? I know what I am getting when I buy a can or pack of beer. People buying this lifetime sub don't know what they are getting. No?Do you buy a daily ticket for travel to work, or buy on a monthly basis at a cheaper rate? No? Then why so cynical when it is offerred here? Because it shows that Cryptic expects you to stop playing before you have spent the same amount of money. If it benefits ths the consumer than it can be seen as a reward by the consumer, even if it is a business strategy from Cryptic's point of view.
Absolutely not.
Yes they would have gotten my money but to what benefit?? Do you understand the question? They will make no saving if i stop playing will they? Ilose but they dont gain anything.
I know what i am getting when i sub to this game. Whether it las the duration is indeed another matter. Same with my travel card, I know what i should be getting but that does not mean the trains will run every day over the coming month.
Absolutely not what? Not a reward for me? Explain please
Well, you obviously are different than I am. I play a game and if like it and can afford it would buy a lifetime subscription, I would. For me, it is a matter of whether the value for me justifies the cost, and that is an individual decision, but I will tell you that your negativity just irritates people, so lay off some, though in some cases your points may be valid.
Absolutely not what? Not a reward for me? Explain please
When both sides benefit - that's a fair deal. Not a gift or reward.
So it a fair deal now eh? Not "No. It is to make more money. Period."
I am really struggling to see how they benefit, they ultimately lose cos they will get less money from me if i play longer than 2 years(or what ever the life time sub equates to in monthly payments), and if i stop before then i lose and they dont gain anything. So it may not be a reward persay but it is a discount for bulk buying, which some may see as a reward (semantics)
I take your non-reponse to the other points as admission that your arguments are fundamentaly flawed.
Originally posted by VultureSkull So it a fair deal not eh?
I am really struggling to see how they benefit, they ultimately lose cos they will get less money from me if i play longer than 2 years(or what ever the life time sub equates to in monthly payments), and if i stop before then i lose and they dont gain anything.
I will ignore your insult and reply once more time:
If you play for 6 months and quit - they will have made the total fee for the lifetime sub ($240?). If you had not taken the lifetime sub and paid monthly instead - they would have made $75 ($15*5). The LS made them $165 more.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
MMO_doubter, there is a flaw in your logic. What you are saying is that there is no possible way that someone could enjoy this game for the full 13 months required to break even. This is an assumption based on what is only your own thoughts and opinions and fails to take into account that the number of lifetime subscriptions sold will be close to or equal to the number of loyal subscribers who are early adopters. While obviously there will not be more than Cryptic can hope to sustain over the long term available, there will be a few who do quit earlier than breaking even, but when it comes to lifetime subscriptions those are usually in the minority. Simply put, you are assuming that gamers who choose lifetime subscriptions are either stupid or dumb, and many are not. I am definitely not either(and to be honest I probably am more intelligent than most of the people that design these games) and I doubt many of the other people on this board are either. You make a choice according to you own experience with a game. It is that simple.
Originally posted by VultureSkull So it a fair deal not eh?
I am really struggling to see how they benefit, they ultimately lose cos they will get less money from me if i play longer than 2 years(or what ever the life time sub equates to in monthly payments), and if i stop before then i lose and they dont gain anything.
I will ignore your insult and reply once more time:
If you play for 6 months and quit - they will have made the total fee for the lifetime sub ($240?). If you had not taken the lifetime sub and paid monthly instead - they would have made $75 ($15*5). The LS made them $165 more.
That looks like a good enough explanation for anyone to understand to me.
Also consider that Cryptic/Atari don't have confidence in getting long term monthly subscribers so they hope to get enough money up front to pay for development and make a profit for shareholders and they can then afford to can the game when Atari want to.
Originally posted by VultureSkull So it a fair deal not eh?
I am really struggling to see how they benefit, they ultimately lose cos they will get less money from me if i play longer than 2 years(or what ever the life time sub equates to in monthly payments), and if i stop before then i lose and they dont gain anything.
I will ignore your insult and reply once more time:
If you play for 6 months and quit - they will have made the total fee for the lifetime sub ($240?). If you had not taken the lifetime sub and paid monthly instead - they would have made $75 ($15*5). The LS made them $165 more.
Insult what insult? How am i insulting you?
I agree i will lose but WHAT will they gain?,
Yes they will have $165 even though i am not playing, but if stop playing what would Cryptic do differently(cut back) to see the effect of that $165. It seems that you still dont understnad the question. I answer for you, they cut NOTHING, and hence they gain nothing!!! (for details see my previous post)
If you cannot understand that then i just give up, otherwise you may accuse me of insulting you again lol.
MMO_doubter, there is a flaw in your logic. What you are saying is that there is no possible way that someone could enjoy this game for the full 13 months required to break even. This is an assumption based on what is only your own thoughts and opinions and fails to take into account that the number of lifetime subscriptions sold will be close to or equal to the number of loyal subscribers who are early adopters. While obviously there will not be more than Cryptic can hope to sustain over the long term available, there will be a few who do quit earlier than breaking even, but when it comes to lifetime subscriptions those are usually in the minority. Simply put, you are assuming that gamers who choose lifetime subscriptions are either stupid or dumb, and many are not. I am definitely not either(and to be honest I probably am more intelligent than most of the people that design these games) and I doubt many of the other people on this board are either. You make a choice according to you own experience with a game. It is that simple.
it's your modesty I'm most impressed by - but not your commercial awareness!
MMO_doubter, there is a flaw in your logic. What you are saying is that there is no possible way that someone could enjoy this game for the full 13 months required to break even.
No. That's not what I am saying. I am saying that Cryptic is betting that most players won't be playing for 13 months (or whatever the break-even point is).
If you play for 2 years - then it was a good deal for you. If you play for 3 months - then it was a great deal for cryptic, and a lousy one for you.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
World of Warcraft only has a strong marketing scheme. They do not actually have a decent product. Someone please tell me where there is any cohesion in their story lines. WoW is primarily aimed at people who have no need for storyline. STO has a different market segment from WoW and clearly the biggest competition it will have is EVE Online and Star Wars: The Old Republic, and possibly Stargate Worlds(if it ever launches). However Star Wars will have it's devoted following and so will Star Trek(there are only a few overlaps in fans, like myself), and I can guarantee you that Trekkies who do find this game appealing will ultimately become loyal subscribers, and there are more Trekkies out there, if you combine all the series together, than there are Star Wars fans, who has a rather large following itself. Only problem with us Trekkies is we do have a tendency to nitpick, which I have already started doing with STO, but have overall found it to worthy of it's Star Trek name, even if it feels somewhat incomplete for the moment.
Originally posted by VultureSkull So it a fair deal not eh?
I am really struggling to see how they benefit, they ultimately lose cos they will get less money from me if i play longer than 2 years(or what ever the life time sub equates to in monthly payments), and if i stop before then i lose and they dont gain anything.
I will ignore your insult and reply once more time:
If you play for 6 months and quit - they will have made the total fee for the lifetime sub ($240?). If you had not taken the lifetime sub and paid monthly instead - they would have made $75 ($15*5). The LS made them $165 more.
That looks like a good enough explanation for anyone to understand to me.
Also consider that Cryptic/Atari don't have confidence in getting long term monthly subscribers so they hope to get enough money up front to pay for development and make a profit for shareholders and they can then afford to can the game when Atari want to.
Ever seen Blizzard offering Lifetime subs?
It looks good (in isolation)cos you dont know what we are talking about.
As for the rest of your post is is mere speculation.
MMO_doubter, there is a flaw in your logic. What you are saying is that there is no possible way that someone could enjoy this game for the full 13 months required to break even.
No. That's not what I am saying. I am saying that Cryptic is betting that most players won't be playing for 13 months (or whatever the break-even point is).
If you play for 2 years - then it was a good deal for you. If you play for 3 months - then it was a great deal for cryptic, and a lousy one for you.
You still have not explained how it is a great deal for Cryptic, simply repeating over and over will not make it true you know!
Originally posted by VultureSkull You still have not explained how it is a great deal for Cryptic, simply repeating over and over will not make it true you know!
Either you are not making your point clear, or your math is seriously flawed.
$240 is a lot more money than $75. Is that not clear?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Im liking STO its a decent game but not good enough to be my main game. I do not like paying multiple MMOs at the same time so I buy the lifetime subscription. This way the game is always there as a back up and when FFXIV get boring or im out of stuff to do while waiting for raid time I have my backup game sitting there for as long as I want it.
Oh and the Borg thing being thrown in does nothing for me I'm not interested in playing that race at all.
MMO_doubter, I will admit you have a valid point in that sense, but I do not see many people choosing the lifetime subscription just to get the Borg character. People are very economically conscious. As far as not being commercially aware, I am very much aware of business practices. I myself am opening my first business now, and also have a career in the entertainment industry, which the gaming industry is part of(though not my specific segment), in addition. Marketing entertainment is a complex undertaking unlike any other product out there. You literally have to predict what the majority want years in advance to be successful. The average film script is bought 4-5 years before the film is released into theaters. After a six months to a year of development and preproduction, a film goes into production. If you will notice, the gaming industry operates very similarly, with production taking 3+ years to get a fully developed MMO ready for release. You simply cannot predict for all factors, but most particularly target audience reception. Business is always a gamble, no matter what business you are in. Star Trek Online will either fail or succeed, though I do see it surviving 3 or more years and retaining many of it's initial subscribers, though I am sure many will also leave. It is simply a matter of balance.
Originally posted by VultureSkull You still have not explained how it is a great deal for Cryptic, simply repeating over and over will not make it true you know!
Either you are not making your point clear, or your math is seriously flawed.
$240 is a lot more money than $75. Is that not clear?
Yeah maybe my point is not getting across, nothing to do with maths.
Let me try and explain again:
If i pay for a life time sub, and then stop after 3 months then i lose. That i agree on.
But I cannot see how Cryptic gain anyhting if I quit early. Cos they will not make any changes to their server or their development costs based on my quitting. They will not say "oh look one of our Life Time subs have quit we therefore do not need a server of X size anymore we can cut back and use a smaller server."
So if i played or not, it iwill not have any effect on Cryptic expenditure. One extra player on the server or the absence of one player will not have any effect on their costs. Hence no benefit to them if i quit early.
If, when i quit, Crytic could reduce the supply of their service then they will benefit, if the supply remains unchanged (which is will) then they will not gain anything from my quitting.
Ulitmately Crytics cost are fixed and not variable based on one or two subs.
(AND even if they could reduce the servuice after i quit, they would not cos i could always come back, since i have a life time sub, and then they would have to increase the service again. )
Actually it is not that much of a reach to say that they do not have a product. I started gaming with the original Final Fantasy. I base my evaluations of all RPGs, whether MMO or not, on that experience(which qualifies me as an expert RPG Gamer after 20+ years), on that experience. For me, for you to actually have a product you need a cohesive plot, playability, and a strong character engine(both graphically and creation/development). If you can pass those 3 things, which isn't much to ask for, you have a strong enough game to truly engage your players. My problem with World of Warcraft is the lack of cohesion in the storyline, and as a writer, actor, and filmmaker, it irritates me to no end.
Alimann, you must not know any Trekkies. We have a tendency to pick apart Star Trek games(this is why there have not been many successful Star Trek games over the years). I do think this one stays faithful enough to the Star Trek universe to actually allow for it's success. If a Trekkie did not enjoy the game, they would have alot to say. I dislike the fact that people have been using the character creation tool to make faux Romulans(the J.J. Abrams version). For 40 years you see Romulans that always have hair and then all of a sudden there are bald Romulans. What is up with that?
Comments
Absolutely not.
Yes they would have gotten my money but to what benefit?? Do you understand the question? They will make no saving if i stop playing will they? Ilose but they dont gain anything.
I know what i am getting when i sub to this game. Whether it las the duration is indeed another matter. Same with my travel card, I know what i should be getting but that does not mean the trains will run every day over the coming month.
Absolutely not what? Not a reward for me? Explain please
Well, you obviously are different than I am. I play a game and if like it and can afford it would buy a lifetime subscription, I would. For me, it is a matter of whether the value for me justifies the cost, and that is an individual decision, but I will tell you that your negativity just irritates people, so lay off some, though in some cases your points may be valid.
When both sides benefit - that's a fair deal. Not a gift or reward.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
When both sides benefit - that's a fair deal. Not a gift or reward.
So it a fair deal now eh? Not "No. It is to make more money. Period."
I am really struggling to see how they benefit, they ultimately lose cos they will get less money from me if i play longer than 2 years(or what ever the life time sub equates to in monthly payments), and if i stop before then i lose and they dont gain anything. So it may not be a reward persay but it is a discount for bulk buying, which some may see as a reward (semantics)
I take your non-reponse to the other points as admission that your arguments are fundamentaly flawed.
I will ignore your insult and reply once more time:
If you play for 6 months and quit - they will have made the total fee for the lifetime sub ($240?). If you had not taken the lifetime sub and paid monthly instead - they would have made $75 ($15*5). The LS made them $165 more.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
MMO_doubter, there is a flaw in your logic. What you are saying is that there is no possible way that someone could enjoy this game for the full 13 months required to break even. This is an assumption based on what is only your own thoughts and opinions and fails to take into account that the number of lifetime subscriptions sold will be close to or equal to the number of loyal subscribers who are early adopters. While obviously there will not be more than Cryptic can hope to sustain over the long term available, there will be a few who do quit earlier than breaking even, but when it comes to lifetime subscriptions those are usually in the minority. Simply put, you are assuming that gamers who choose lifetime subscriptions are either stupid or dumb, and many are not. I am definitely not either(and to be honest I probably am more intelligent than most of the people that design these games) and I doubt many of the other people on this board are either. You make a choice according to you own experience with a game. It is that simple.
I will ignore your insult and reply once more time:
If you play for 6 months and quit - they will have made the total fee for the lifetime sub ($240?). If you had not taken the lifetime sub and paid monthly instead - they would have made $75 ($15*5). The LS made them $165 more.
That looks like a good enough explanation for anyone to understand to me.
Also consider that Cryptic/Atari don't have confidence in getting long term monthly subscribers so they hope to get enough money up front to pay for development and make a profit for shareholders and they can then afford to can the game when Atari want to.
Ever seen Blizzard offering Lifetime subs?
I will ignore your insult and reply once more time:
If you play for 6 months and quit - they will have made the total fee for the lifetime sub ($240?). If you had not taken the lifetime sub and paid monthly instead - they would have made $75 ($15*5). The LS made them $165 more.
Insult what insult? How am i insulting you?
I agree i will lose but WHAT will they gain?,
Yes they will have $165 even though i am not playing, but if stop playing what would Cryptic do differently(cut back) to see the effect of that $165. It seems that you still dont understnad the question. I answer for you, they cut NOTHING, and hence they gain nothing!!! (for details see my previous post)
If you cannot understand that then i just give up, otherwise you may accuse me of insulting you again lol.
it's your modesty I'm most impressed by - but not your commercial awareness!
No. That's not what I am saying. I am saying that Cryptic is betting that most players won't be playing for 13 months (or whatever the break-even point is).
If you play for 2 years - then it was a good deal for you. If you play for 3 months - then it was a great deal for cryptic, and a lousy one for you.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I have choosen, Prepare to be ASSIMILATED, " Resistance is FUTILE "
MAGA
Bingo. That is a very good question.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
World of Warcraft only has a strong marketing scheme. They do not actually have a decent product. Someone please tell me where there is any cohesion in their story lines. WoW is primarily aimed at people who have no need for storyline. STO has a different market segment from WoW and clearly the biggest competition it will have is EVE Online and Star Wars: The Old Republic, and possibly Stargate Worlds(if it ever launches). However Star Wars will have it's devoted following and so will Star Trek(there are only a few overlaps in fans, like myself), and I can guarantee you that Trekkies who do find this game appealing will ultimately become loyal subscribers, and there are more Trekkies out there, if you combine all the series together, than there are Star Wars fans, who has a rather large following itself. Only problem with us Trekkies is we do have a tendency to nitpick, which I have already started doing with STO, but have overall found it to worthy of it's Star Trek name, even if it feels somewhat incomplete for the moment.
I will ignore your insult and reply once more time:
If you play for 6 months and quit - they will have made the total fee for the lifetime sub ($240?). If you had not taken the lifetime sub and paid monthly instead - they would have made $75 ($15*5). The LS made them $165 more.
That looks like a good enough explanation for anyone to understand to me.
Also consider that Cryptic/Atari don't have confidence in getting long term monthly subscribers so they hope to get enough money up front to pay for development and make a profit for shareholders and they can then afford to can the game when Atari want to.
Ever seen Blizzard offering Lifetime subs?
It looks good (in isolation)cos you dont know what we are talking about.
As for the rest of your post is is mere speculation.
I don't play it anymore, but that is a ridiculous claim.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Purchase the Lifetime subscription, " Resistance is FUTILE "
MAGA
No. That's not what I am saying. I am saying that Cryptic is betting that most players won't be playing for 13 months (or whatever the break-even point is).
If you play for 2 years - then it was a good deal for you. If you play for 3 months - then it was a great deal for cryptic, and a lousy one for you.
You still have not explained how it is a great deal for Cryptic, simply repeating over and over will not make it true you know!
Either you are not making your point clear, or your math is seriously flawed.
$240 is a lot more money than $75. Is that not clear?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Im liking STO its a decent game but not good enough to be my main game. I do not like paying multiple MMOs at the same time so I buy the lifetime subscription. This way the game is always there as a back up and when FFXIV get boring or im out of stuff to do while waiting for raid time I have my backup game sitting there for as long as I want it.
Oh and the Borg thing being thrown in does nothing for me I'm not interested in playing that race at all.
MMO_doubter, I will admit you have a valid point in that sense, but I do not see many people choosing the lifetime subscription just to get the Borg character. People are very economically conscious. As far as not being commercially aware, I am very much aware of business practices. I myself am opening my first business now, and also have a career in the entertainment industry, which the gaming industry is part of(though not my specific segment), in addition. Marketing entertainment is a complex undertaking unlike any other product out there. You literally have to predict what the majority want years in advance to be successful. The average film script is bought 4-5 years before the film is released into theaters. After a six months to a year of development and preproduction, a film goes into production. If you will notice, the gaming industry operates very similarly, with production taking 3+ years to get a fully developed MMO ready for release. You simply cannot predict for all factors, but most particularly target audience reception. Business is always a gamble, no matter what business you are in. Star Trek Online will either fail or succeed, though I do see it surviving 3 or more years and retaining many of it's initial subscribers, though I am sure many will also leave. It is simply a matter of balance.
Either you are not making your point clear, or your math is seriously flawed.
$240 is a lot more money than $75. Is that not clear?
Yeah maybe my point is not getting across, nothing to do with maths.
Let me try and explain again:
If i pay for a life time sub, and then stop after 3 months then i lose. That i agree on.
But I cannot see how Cryptic gain anyhting if I quit early. Cos they will not make any changes to their server or their development costs based on my quitting. They will not say "oh look one of our Life Time subs have quit we therefore do not need a server of X size anymore we can cut back and use a smaller server."
So if i played or not, it iwill not have any effect on Cryptic expenditure. One extra player on the server or the absence of one player will not have any effect on their costs. Hence no benefit to them if i quit early.
If, when i quit, Crytic could reduce the supply of their service then they will benefit, if the supply remains unchanged (which is will) then they will not gain anything from my quitting.
Ulitmately Crytics cost are fixed and not variable based on one or two subs.
(AND even if they could reduce the servuice after i quit, they would not cos i could always come back, since i have a life time sub, and then they would have to increase the service again. )
Actually it is not that much of a reach to say that they do not have a product. I started gaming with the original Final Fantasy. I base my evaluations of all RPGs, whether MMO or not, on that experience(which qualifies me as an expert RPG Gamer after 20+ years), on that experience. For me, for you to actually have a product you need a cohesive plot, playability, and a strong character engine(both graphically and creation/development). If you can pass those 3 things, which isn't much to ask for, you have a strong enough game to truly engage your players. My problem with World of Warcraft is the lack of cohesion in the storyline, and as a writer, actor, and filmmaker, it irritates me to no end.
Money for grabs
that's all.... They just wanna sell name Star Trek Online... That's all... Not worth it in my opinion.
Yep horses for courses.
Some people choose to buy water which is free from the tap and is sometimes of lesser quality. But it is a free world !!
Alimann, you must not know any Trekkies. We have a tendency to pick apart Star Trek games(this is why there have not been many successful Star Trek games over the years). I do think this one stays faithful enough to the Star Trek universe to actually allow for it's success. If a Trekkie did not enjoy the game, they would have alot to say. I dislike the fact that people have been using the character creation tool to make faux Romulans(the J.J. Abrams version). For 40 years you see Romulans that always have hair and then all of a sudden there are bald Romulans. What is up with that?