The OP is not telling it true, and only noobs and failbots would be fooled. This is one of the oldest arguments to lure in new players to Eve. Read the majority of posts by Eve players after the OP. You gotta buy the character. Bottom line.
You can level up in one thing and do that. That's fine. As long as it isn't combat related. Because there are a massive amount of skills that add up tremendously in terms of the performance of your character in combat. The majority of the game revolves around either PvP specifically or something that requires being in space that is rife with PvP.
The next argument that they will use to counter what I am saying is 'SP (skill points) aren't everything'. That's true. Veteran players know how to use the ship/pilot combo as well. So that leave noobs doubly screwed. You can spend lots of money to buy the pilot, more to buy the gear, but you are still going to get raped since you don't know what you're doing. And spending ISK to replace gear in-game at that level of combat to learn how to use a high SP pilot and ship combo is going to be prohibitively expensive.
I'm just putting forth an analogy of the way that I see EVE and it's system.
I still believe that it's possible to catch up to someone who's been playing for much longer in one area of expertise. Even combat.
I have no clever counter arguments to what you said, I'm not getting paid to get people to play EVE, I just think that people misunderstand how it works and thought I'd present it in a way that would be understandable to people that play MMO's with the 'standard' level '1 to XX' grind.
People shouldn't pass up playing this game based on the initial feeling that 'it's just not worth it, I'll NEVER be able to compete' - That just isn't true.
I didn't play EVE for quite a long time because I believed that myself.
Just to reiterate what someone else has already posted: If you know what you are doing, you can make billions a week no problem. You can then use that isk to buy a 100+M SP character-- it's entirely legal, within the game rules, and is a part of the game. I'm not saying it's easy-- but to say that catching up is impossible is simply untrue.
If you know what you are doing... If you can make billions a week you have not anly ketchup ya also have surpassed alot of players :S
The OP is not telling it true, and only noobs and failbots would be fooled. This is one of the oldest arguments to lure in new players to Eve. Read the majority of posts by Eve players after the OP. You gotta buy the character. Bottom line.
Um, reading those posts actually shows that the majority agree with the OP. "You gotta buy the character" is very much a minority opinion. Personally I would recommend against it, as by doing this, new players will miss out on a hell of a lot.
"You gotta buy" comes from people who still think in WoW terms: that "The game begins at level 80". That may well apply to WoW, but it definitely doesn't apply to EVE. There is a vast amount of things for newer players to do, if they can be bothered to stand up and start doing them.
Answer me this: how many SPs do you need to command a fleet, run a corp, start a war, scout a fleet or scam a trader? Those are all highly significant activities that involve no SP whatsoever.
The OP is not telling it true, and only noobs and failbots would be fooled. This is one of the oldest arguments to lure in new players to Eve. Read the majority of posts by Eve players after the OP. You gotta buy the character. Bottom line. You can level up in one thing and do that. That's fine. As long as it isn't combat related. Because there are a massive amount of skills that add up tremendously in terms of the performance of your character in combat. The majority of the game revolves around either PvP specifically or something that requires being in space that is rife with PvP. The next argument that they will use to counter what I am saying is 'SP (skill points) aren't everything'. That's true. Veteran players know how to use the ship/pilot combo as well. So that leave noobs doubly screwed. You can spend lots of money to buy the pilot, more to buy the gear, but you are still going to get raped since you don't know what you're doing. And spending ISK to replace gear in-game at that level of combat to learn how to use a high SP pilot and ship combo is going to be prohibitively expensive.
I lost an assault frigate yesterday. My character is from 2005 his was from 2009 :S
How come he had more SP than me?
I would not have lost my ship if he does not have more SP, right?
The OP is not telling it true, and only noobs and failbots would be fooled. This is one of the oldest arguments to lure in new players to Eve. Read the majority of posts by Eve players after the OP. You gotta buy the character. Bottom line.
Um, reading those posts actually shows that the majority agree with the OP. "You gotta buy the character" is very much a minority opinion. Personally I would recommend against it, as by doing this, new players will miss out on a hell of a lot.
"You gotta buy" comes from people who still think in WoW terms: that "The game begins at level 80". That may well apply to WoW, but it definitely doesn't apply to EVE. There is a vast amount of things for newer players to do, if they can be bothered to stand up and start doing them.
Answer me this: how many SPs do you need to command a fleet, run a corp, start a war, scout a fleet or scam a trader? Those are all highly significant activities that involve no SP whatsoever.
If I can follow through with that line of argument, bare with me here.
I don't think anyone that starts to play EVE is getting lured into the game, that holds no point. As I see it those that consider a game they like is one that they "catch up" in, those that thinks at game starts at top level (80 or something). Those people will not enjoy EVE until they recognize that there is no catching up to do, or until they understand that a game starts at level 1.
I don't think they will last past the trial or the first month, and I also think that they whatever the game is often is disappointed when they reach the point where the game in their opinion or belief is starting.
So in a way this kind of post is moot, if one walks into a game with that belief and needs to be convinced of otherwise they are from start looking at the game in a wrong way and unless they by themself get that basic understanding of the game. In terms for instance what you can do in a given situation, be it that you take a T1 frigate and looking for targets in OMS and win a fight against someone, or understand the part in being a team and fulfilling a needed role.
You will never catch up. Be it buying a battleship pilot or getting to end level without knowing how to play your character.
There is something wrong when a new player is blowen away in a 0.8 system by some asshat on a ganking mission. It tends not to instill wanting to play the game. There is no way to stop this short of completly changeing the game.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
There is something wrong when a new player is blowen away in a 0.8 system by some asshat on a ganking mission. It tends not to instill wanting to play the game. There is no way to stop this short of completly changeing the game.
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
There is something wrong when a new player is blowen away in a 0.8 system by some asshat on a ganking mission. It tends not to instill wanting to play the game. There is no way to stop this short of completly changeing the game.
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
I bought the collectors edition and a lifetime membership thanks for the tip.
" Charlie Mike "
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
There is something wrong when a new player is blowen away in a 0.8 system by some asshat on a ganking mission. It tends not to instill wanting to play the game. There is no way to stop this short of completly changeing the game.
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
I bought the collectors edition and a lifetime membership thanks for the tip.
There is something wrong when a new player is blowen away in a 0.8 system by some asshat on a ganking mission. It tends not to instill wanting to play the game. There is no way to stop this short of completly changeing the game.
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
I bought the collectors edition and a lifetime membership thanks for the tip.
" Charlie Mike "
It's always funny reading an attempt at rationality only to have them say they've purchased a lifetime subscription to a game that has yet to prove it will last a year. Good logic.
There is something wrong when a new player is blowen away in a 0.8 system by some asshat on a ganking mission. It tends not to instill wanting to play the game. There is no way to stop this short of completly changeing the game.
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
I bought the collectors edition and a lifetime membership thanks for the tip.
" Charlie Mike "
Wait a minute! Weren't you an EVE defender in the past? I don't care either way,..just chiming in.
There is something wrong when a new player is blowen away in a 0.8 system by some asshat on a ganking mission. It tends not to instill wanting to play the game. There is no way to stop this short of completly changeing the game.
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
I bought the collectors edition and a lifetime membership thanks for the tip.
" Charlie Mike "
Wait a minute! Weren't you an EVE defender in the past? I don't care either way,..just chiming in.
He's been banging his stupid "Make a PVE Server" drum for a long time now.
Not also forgetting that skills no longer train on inactive subscriptions, not everyone will be subbed all the time, so it's now possible to catch up with alot of its playerbase, if you only play this game to watch your skillpoints rise.
A corp mate of mine has been playing EVE since beta and has over 100m SP's and can fly almost any ship up to capitals quite well.
He was in a wormhole next to our native solo killing some sleepers in a mining site on his Dominix (battleship) when he got ambushed by a Demios (Heavy Assault Cruiser) pilot who has only been playing the game about 1.75 years now.
Though he made a brave run of it, the Demios finally caught him at the wormhole exit on the native side and took him out.
So in this situation, it was a combination of having the right ship to hunt with and the fact the Demios pilot was pretty good, my friend gave him props in his ability to scan him down quickly and catch him at the hole despite his best evasive maneuvers.
You really don't need to catch up to be effective, you just need to train up the right tool for the right job and you can be successful.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I could log on, and go straight for a cruiser pilot skills, and in a matter of time, I'll be just as good as every other cruiser pilot out there because they are maxed?
There is something wrong when a new player is blowen away in a 0.8 system by some asshat on a ganking mission. It tends not to instill wanting to play the game. There is no way to stop this short of completly changeing the game.
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
I bought the collectors edition and a lifetime membership thanks for the tip.
" Charlie Mike "
np
What a waste of money. The game is fail from start.
So just to clear this up and confirm. I could log on, and go straight for a cruiser pilot skills, and in a matter of time, I'll be just as good as every other cruiser pilot out there because they are maxed?
Yes, there is a limit to how good you can be in a particular hull type.
EDIT: To clarify, there are ship support skills that apply to all ships, their agility, armor, shields and capacitor to name a few. Then there are module (weapons for example) skills that allow you to use the items and give bonuses.
A single fit you choose has a limited number of skills that apply to that fit, so by focusing on a single ship with few variations in fitting you can become as efficient with that ship as any older pilot. The good thing is that most of the skills are then applicable to other ships so when you want to expand you are not starting from scratch.
My main with nearly 80msp can fly 67% of the ships in the game and use four weapon systems (hybrid, lasers, drones and missiles) if you focus on the Vexor and then the Ishtar you can fly that ship as well as me in around 18 months (estimate) or less depending on the fitting used.
I don't think this is true at all in any way shape or form. If I may, I'll use a generic fantasy MMO as my point of comparison;
I buy the game Melons of Steel, it's a great MMO that's been out for about 3 years and I decide that I'm going to make a 'Holy Crusader' as my first character. It takes me about 3 months to level up to level 120 (the level cap in MoS) and once I get there I've got all my Holy Crusader skills under my belt and I've made a fair amount of money getting there. Enough to get some pretty good items.
Once I've got there I do a bit of PvP, some raids and what not and I see someone playing a 'Robber of Souls' and I think, hmm, that looks like fun! So I run off and roll a brand new level 1 'Robber' and start leveling up, sometimes I go back to my Holy Crusader and do stuff that I'm at max level with.
Anyway, as I'm leveling up my new Robber of Souls, I meet a guy that started playing 3 years before me and I tell him this is my new alt! He tell me that he already has 7 max level characters in the game already!!!!
How unfair, I cry! I'll never catch up to this guy! After 3 years I can have 7 max level characters too, but by that time he'll have 14!!!!
EVE is much like this in my eyes - I can train skills to make me a perfect PvP frigate pilot. I can train up to be a kick ass mission runner in a Battleship. I can train to be a miner and manufacture things, but I can't do them all at the same time.
Swapping ships is much like logging off the Nipple Biter to play the Robber. Even though you won't be as experienced or be able to do as much as someone who's been playing longer, it's quite possible to become as good as them at one thing in a relatively short period of time. You just need to have a clear goal, then once you can do that one thing you like really well you can move on (re-roll that Robber of Souls).
Well, it's kind of a cheesy comparison I'll give you that and it also may be wildly inaccurate, but it's the way that I look at EVE and don't feel that dismay that I can 'never catch up', because I can!!!
(I apologize for beating this long dead horse as some of you might say after reading this, but it's something I wanted to get out.)
Sorry but this comparison its a bit .... wrong lets say , in EVE players can't catch up with skills in say Melons of Steel you can't catch up with number of characters but after 3 months you have same skills on your Crusader as guy who have 7 alts got on his Crusader.
Thats why so many people say they never can catch up.
How exactly is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to acquire maximum skillpoints for just ONE specific ship type? This just proves that there really is no "catching up" to speak of, veterans will ALWAYS be ahead. No other game places such an artificial barrier on character progression.
How exactly is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to acquire maximum skillpoints for just ONE specific ship type? This just proves that there really is no "catching up" to speak of, veterans will ALWAYS be ahead. No other game places such an artificial barrier on character progression.
I agree and it is one of the major shortcomings in Eve. Would be much better if there was activities which gave you SPs, together with the current system.
Right now all you can do is boost your attributes and wait... and wait.... for months, years. Ridicilous system if you want new people to join the game and not feel like they are lightyears behind. But Eve has always been a niche game and this just shows why.
How exactly is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to acquire maximum skillpoints for just ONE specific ship type? This just proves that there really is no "catching up" to speak of, veterans will ALWAYS be ahead. No other game places such an artificial barrier on character progression.
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equipment?
Comments
The OP is not telling it true, and only noobs and failbots would be fooled. This is one of the oldest arguments to lure in new players to Eve. Read the majority of posts by Eve players after the OP. You gotta buy the character. Bottom line.
You can level up in one thing and do that. That's fine. As long as it isn't combat related. Because there are a massive amount of skills that add up tremendously in terms of the performance of your character in combat. The majority of the game revolves around either PvP specifically or something that requires being in space that is rife with PvP.
The next argument that they will use to counter what I am saying is 'SP (skill points) aren't everything'. That's true. Veteran players know how to use the ship/pilot combo as well. So that leave noobs doubly screwed. You can spend lots of money to buy the pilot, more to buy the gear, but you are still going to get raped since you don't know what you're doing. And spending ISK to replace gear in-game at that level of combat to learn how to use a high SP pilot and ship combo is going to be prohibitively expensive.
WizardBlack:
I'm a new(ish) player to EVE.
I'm not trying to 'lure anyone in'.
I'm just putting forth an analogy of the way that I see EVE and it's system.
I still believe that it's possible to catch up to someone who's been playing for much longer in one area of expertise. Even combat.
I have no clever counter arguments to what you said, I'm not getting paid to get people to play EVE, I just think that people misunderstand how it works and thought I'd present it in a way that would be understandable to people that play MMO's with the 'standard' level '1 to XX' grind.
People shouldn't pass up playing this game based on the initial feeling that 'it's just not worth it, I'll NEVER be able to compete' - That just isn't true.
I didn't play EVE for quite a long time because I believed that myself.
If you know what you are doing... If you can make billions a week you have not anly ketchup ya also have surpassed alot of players :S
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Um, reading those posts actually shows that the majority agree with the OP. "You gotta buy the character" is very much a minority opinion. Personally I would recommend against it, as by doing this, new players will miss out on a hell of a lot.
"You gotta buy" comes from people who still think in WoW terms: that "The game begins at level 80". That may well apply to WoW, but it definitely doesn't apply to EVE. There is a vast amount of things for newer players to do, if they can be bothered to stand up and start doing them.
Answer me this: how many SPs do you need to command a fleet, run a corp, start a war, scout a fleet or scam a trader? Those are all highly significant activities that involve no SP whatsoever.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I lost an assault frigate yesterday. My character is from 2005 his was from 2009 :S
How come he had more SP than me?
I would not have lost my ship if he does not have more SP, right?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Um, reading those posts actually shows that the majority agree with the OP. "You gotta buy the character" is very much a minority opinion. Personally I would recommend against it, as by doing this, new players will miss out on a hell of a lot.
"You gotta buy" comes from people who still think in WoW terms: that "The game begins at level 80". That may well apply to WoW, but it definitely doesn't apply to EVE. There is a vast amount of things for newer players to do, if they can be bothered to stand up and start doing them.
Answer me this: how many SPs do you need to command a fleet, run a corp, start a war, scout a fleet or scam a trader? Those are all highly significant activities that involve no SP whatsoever.
If I can follow through with that line of argument, bare with me here.
I don't think anyone that starts to play EVE is getting lured into the game, that holds no point. As I see it those that consider a game they like is one that they "catch up" in, those that thinks at game starts at top level (80 or something). Those people will not enjoy EVE until they recognize that there is no catching up to do, or until they understand that a game starts at level 1.
I don't think they will last past the trial or the first month, and I also think that they whatever the game is often is disappointed when they reach the point where the game in their opinion or belief is starting.
So in a way this kind of post is moot, if one walks into a game with that belief and needs to be convinced of otherwise they are from start looking at the game in a wrong way and unless they by themself get that basic understanding of the game. In terms for instance what you can do in a given situation, be it that you take a T1 frigate and looking for targets in OMS and win a fight against someone, or understand the part in being a team and fulfilling a needed role.
You will never catch up. Be it buying a battleship pilot or getting to end level without knowing how to play your character.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
There is something wrong when a new player is blowen away in a 0.8 system by some asshat on a ganking mission. It tends not to instill wanting to play the game. There is no way to stop this short of completly changeing the game.
MAGA
Did you know that "instill fear" is phonetically similar to "distill beer", which is awesome and much more sensical than your posts?
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
I bought the collectors edition and a lifetime membership thanks for the tip.
" Charlie Mike "
MAGA
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
I bought the collectors edition and a lifetime membership thanks for the tip.
" Charlie Mike "
np
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
I bought the collectors edition and a lifetime membership thanks for the tip.
" Charlie Mike "
It's always funny reading an attempt at rationality only to have them say they've purchased a lifetime subscription to a game that has yet to prove it will last a year. Good logic.
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
I bought the collectors edition and a lifetime membership thanks for the tip.
" Charlie Mike "
Wait a minute! Weren't you an EVE defender in the past? I don't care either way,..just chiming in.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
I bought the collectors edition and a lifetime membership thanks for the tip.
" Charlie Mike "
Wait a minute! Weren't you an EVE defender in the past? I don't care either way,..just chiming in.
He's been banging his stupid "Make a PVE Server" drum for a long time now.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Not also forgetting that skills no longer train on inactive subscriptions, not everyone will be subbed all the time, so it's now possible to catch up with alot of its playerbase, if you only play this game to watch your skillpoints rise.
They said that the Goons would never catch up and become a threat.
Just a example of the need not to catch up.
A corp mate of mine has been playing EVE since beta and has over 100m SP's and can fly almost any ship up to capitals quite well.
He was in a wormhole next to our native solo killing some sleepers in a mining site on his Dominix (battleship) when he got ambushed by a Demios (Heavy Assault Cruiser) pilot who has only been playing the game about 1.75 years now.
Though he made a brave run of it, the Demios finally caught him at the wormhole exit on the native side and took him out.
So in this situation, it was a combination of having the right ship to hunt with and the fact the Demios pilot was pretty good, my friend gave him props in his ability to scan him down quickly and catch him at the hole despite his best evasive maneuvers.
You really don't need to catch up to be effective, you just need to train up the right tool for the right job and you can be successful.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So just to clear this up and confirm.
I could log on, and go straight for a cruiser pilot skills, and in a matter of time, I'll be just as good as every other cruiser pilot out there because they are maxed?
Atlas too.
This is not a game.
Oh, btw, they made STO for you. Go there instead of wanting to change a game to fit what you want.
I bought the collectors edition and a lifetime membership thanks for the tip.
" Charlie Mike "
np
What a waste of money. The game is fail from start.
Yes, there is a limit to how good you can be in a particular hull type.
EDIT: To clarify, there are ship support skills that apply to all ships, their agility, armor, shields and capacitor to name a few. Then there are module (weapons for example) skills that allow you to use the items and give bonuses.
A single fit you choose has a limited number of skills that apply to that fit, so by focusing on a single ship with few variations in fitting you can become as efficient with that ship as any older pilot. The good thing is that most of the skills are then applicable to other ships so when you want to expand you are not starting from scratch.
My main with nearly 80msp can fly 67% of the ships in the game and use four weapon systems (hybrid, lasers, drones and missiles) if you focus on the Vexor and then the Ishtar you can fly that ship as well as me in around 18 months (estimate) or less depending on the fitting used.
Sorry but this comparison its a bit .... wrong lets say , in EVE players can't catch up with skills in say Melons of Steel you can't catch up with number of characters but after 3 months you have same skills on your Crusader as guy who have 7 alts got on his Crusader.
Thats why so many people say they never can catch up.
How exactly is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to acquire maximum skillpoints for just ONE specific ship type? This just proves that there really is no "catching up" to speak of, veterans will ALWAYS be ahead. No other game places such an artificial barrier on character progression.
I agree and it is one of the major shortcomings in Eve. Would be much better if there was activities which gave you SPs, together with the current system.
Right now all you can do is boost your attributes and wait... and wait.... for months, years. Ridicilous system if you want new people to join the game and not feel like they are lightyears behind. But Eve has always been a niche game and this just shows why.
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So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equipment?