Just stop. How long does it take to get into a Dreadnought, and fly it perfectly (and it does take one to experience the "end-game")? In WoW, you CAN reach max level and hit the gear cap in less than a year, if not half. Gold is a non-issue, and I don't see how alts come into the equation. Don't tell me a maxed Dreadnought is comparable to a maxed Frigate as a "character". What it comes down to is that in other games you can close the gap between yourself and a veteran player, because your progression is directly proportional to your actual playtime and effort. In EVE, the best you can hope for is that other players unsubscribe periodically.
As already stated, you fail at comprehending EvE.
In other news:
I am always confused by this need to ‘catch up’ (or another WoW favorite – ‘have balanced classes’).
Veteran players have more ISK, skills, and experience than new ones?!?!
A player that began playing EvE in 2006 will (generally) perpetually have a larger skill point pool than one that started in 2009?!?!
Why are these things so shocking?
I started playing EvE in 2008. I’ve tried my hand at various professions (mining, couriering, exploring, and PvP), so my skills are somewhat spread out. Currently I’m fitting T1 frigs and roaming solo through lowsec looking for people to ransom. I get blown up a lot (especially because I’m still learning) but I also scanned down and jumped in on a veteran pirate from the Tuskers sitting at a planet and popped his Incursus with my Rifter (both T1 frigs). Know why? Because he was fit with short-range blasters and I was fit with Auto Cannons and Barrage Ammo – which meant that knowing my tactics and orbiting him at the edge of his weapon range allowed me to take him out with little-to-no damage to my ship i.e. right tools and tactics for the scenario, regardless of skill points.
To play EvE you must get over the idea of ‘max level’, ‘catching up’, and ‘balanced characters’ that are typically appropriated from other MMO’s. Play the game to enjoy it, not to be ‘the best’, and you’ll get WAY more out of it. In my experience, 9 times out of 10, knowledge and tactics wins the day over skill points.
As an aside: Check out The Blood Money Cartel. It’s an EvE pirate Corp that pretty much exclusively fly T1 frigs – and they kill a lot of big ships in those frigs.
Originally posted by CyberWiz they are for shooting player owned sructures in 0.0 only, they can't go to low or higsec and they can't dock, meaning you ALWAYS have to be in the ship or someone steals it.
they are for shooting player owned sructures in 0.0 only, they can't go to low or higsec and they can't dock, meaning you ALWAYS have to be in the ship or someone steals it.
You're wrong.
Always willing to learn, please elaborate.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
You are thinking of Titans and Motherships (now Super Carriers). Dreads and Carriers can be docked. My Nid has been sitting docked in lowsec for a year now. It going to take a truckload of WD40 and duct tape to get that thing flying again.
What most people are saying about catching up is true... It really doesn't matter that much. I was able to roll an Amarr pirate in a couple weeks and, with careful target selection, solo cruisers. That character had roughly 1.5 million skillpoints. I was able to do it because I knew the tactics for the ship and I planned my skills accordingly. Experience trumps skillpoints any day. You can catchup in experience by joining a training guild, reading all you can, and asking questions.
Eve really is the best MMO in existence. I think all the people who make it past the initial learning curve would agree.
You are thinking of Titans and Motherships (now Super Carriers). Dreads and Carriers can be docked. My Nid has been sitting docked in lowsec for a year now. It going to take a truckload of WD40 and duct tape to get that thing flying again.
What most people are saying about catching up is true... It really doesn't matter that much. I was able to roll an Amarr pirate in a couple weeks and, with careful target selection, solo cruisers. That character had roughly 1.5 million skillpoints. I was able to do it because I knew the tactics for the ship and I planned my skills accordingly. Experience trumps skillpoints any day. You can catchup in experience by joining a training guild, reading all you can, and asking questions.
Eve really is the best MMO in existence. I think all the people who make it past the initial learning curve would agree.
I stand corrected then, thought none of the capitals could dock.
It is the best MMO currently in existence for many people including me, I agree
I can also understand how many people have a hard time getting into it, joining a good corp like EVE University, that can learn you alot certainly helps.
Oh and I just calculated, it takes almost 6 months to fly a T2 fitted Battlecruiser well. I find that quite reasonable.
It takes another 4 months to fly a command ship well, that is a T2 battlecruiser. Not too bad imho.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
You are thinking of Titans and Motherships (now Super Carriers). Dreads and Carriers can be docked. My Nid has been sitting docked in lowsec for a year now. It going to take a truckload of WD40 and duct tape to get that thing flying again.
What most people are saying about catching up is true... It really doesn't matter that much. I was able to roll an Amarr pirate in a couple weeks and, with careful target selection, solo cruisers. That character had roughly 1.5 million skillpoints. I was able to do it because I knew the tactics for the ship and I planned my skills accordingly. Experience trumps skillpoints any day. You can catchup in experience by joining a training guild, reading all you can, and asking questions.
Eve really is the best MMO in existence. I think all the people who make it past the initial learning curve would agree.
I have been playing for many years , 4+ with different toons and I have to say this man speaks the truith.
Experience, knowledge of game mechanics, will carry you MUCH FURTHER than sp will. Is sp useful? Sure is, sp lets you change roles and fly different ships and do different things. At first you can only fly frigates, and fulfill a tackler or damage support role, which many consider to be a role for noobs, however, I cannot count the number of times a good ceptor pilot was able to get a point on that key target, and hold him down long enough for your heavier ships to get on top of him.
One fight I was involved in between my old corp, Esto Perpetua, and Stain empire where tackling resulted in an overwhelming win.
Their 10ish man fleet jumped into our similar sized fleet in 6y-otw system 0.0, however they didnt all come in together, they kind of trickled in. They basicly got ripped to pieces 1 by 1 and were unable to concentrate their fire effectivly or coordinate effecitvly. They had 2 ECM ships, a scorpion and a falcon, The scorpion was dead for rights as it was stuck in the bubble and was vulnurable to fire, where as the falcon was forced to gtfo the bubble and come back at range before it could jam effectivly, both ships were setup for jamming which means they didnt have much of a tank. Range is their defense, and with the bubble it nullified the scorpions advantage, and delayed the falcon pilot from the fight long enough to make piecemeal out of most of their fleet.
Had it been a proper setup, their falcon and scorp would have been at range and would have locked down a good portion of our fleets DPS, including my guardian which you can also see saves TWO of our ships from popping in the video.
And the very last ship of theirs we got was a nighthawk, he had to be atleast 150km + range, He was too far away from ANY of us to get him before he warped, EXCEPT for the interceptor pilot. Our crow was able to tackle him, though he was popped in the process. This is sometimes refered to as suicide tackle. However, the crow pilot served his role and though he lost his 30 mil (total estimated cost) interceptor, he allowed us to get a nighthawk kill that we wouldnt have got otherwise. Nighthawks are 200+ mil ,
So for anyone who says tackling is uselsss or small ships are pointless in eve, think again. Every ship has a role and use, fulfilling that role in a group or solo setting is what makes the diff between a good player and a bad.
The bottom line is that you have to buy a character or tag along and be a disposable 'tackler' (real entertaining, that one, you basically consume a few seconds and a few shots/missiles/volleys of the opposing player) or eat training time for a few years, minimum.
The only decent argument I saw was someone running PvE and barely got caught by another player with less time in. The only thing is, the attacking player was probably fitted for PvP (tactics to the newer player, sure), but the new player was in for 1.75 years versus five. LOL.
How many ppl looking into starting up Eve wanna be competitive in 2 years? Raise your hands...
Yes, there are a finite number of skills. I doubt even the 1.75 year player had everything maxed that addressed the ship he was flying. Even if it was T1. T1 is not competitive in 0.0. Can you make a few kills? Sure if you luck out and have a good corp. But you are gonna be buying ISK to keep yourself fitted. Can you make lots of money in Eve? Sure, but you can't be training to be 'competitive' in some as yet undefined period of mere months in PvP and still be training all your indy skills or trade skills to be decent at trading.
New Players: It requires both player skill AND character skill (which is lots of time or money) to be competitive in lowsec or nulsec. Don't let any of these guys fool you. If you have a nice corp, you might make some sort of contribution in about 6~9 months. Otherwise, you'll be told to play the role of cannon fodder if they even let you in. Most have SP minimums right up front.
LOL, and it goes round and round. As always. The bottom line is that you have to buy a character or tag along and be a disposable 'tackler' (real entertaining, that one, you basically consume a few seconds and a few shots/missiles/volleys of the opposing player) or eat training time for a few years, minimum. The only decent argument I saw was someone running PvE and barely got caught by another player with less time in. The only thing is, the attacking player was probably fitted for PvP (tactics to the newer player, sure), but the new player was in for 1.75 years versus five. LOL. How many ppl looking into starting up Eve wanna be competitive in 2 years? Raise your hands... Yes, there are a finite number of skills. I doubt even the 1.75 year player had everything maxed that addressed the ship he was flying. Even if it was T1. T1 is not competitive in 0.0. Can you make a few kills? Sure if you luck out and have a good corp. But you are gonna be buying ISK to keep yourself fitted. Can you make lots of money in Eve? Sure, but you can't be training to be 'competitive' in some as yet undefined period of mere months in PvP and still be training all your indy skills or trade skills to be decent at trading.
New Players: It requires both player skill AND character skill (which is lots of time or money) to be competitive in lowsec or nulsec. Don't let any of these guys fool you. If you have a nice corp, you might make some sort of contribution in about 6~9 months. Otherwise, you'll be told to play the role of cannon fodder if they even let you in. Most have SP minimums right up front.
What?
You mean that I can't join this game...play for 6 months, and be just as skilled (player and character) as another character that's 5 years in?!?!
Players that have been playing longer are (generally) going to have more money, friends, assets, and (character) skill than me?!?!?
I can't train to be the best trader, PvPer, miner, PvE missioner, etc all at the same time?!?!?
I can't drink copious amounts of Mountain Dew and stay up for 8 weeks straight to become the leetest, epic'd out, pewpew wtfpwner of all of EvE history?!?!?
Man, this game sucks. You should be able to power-level (?) to max competitiveness, attain all epic’d out purples, and wtfleetroflmaogtfopewpewpwn all the noobs in 3 months max!
I dont even think EVE is about "catching up". What are you going to catch up to? End game is what you make of it. Its all about having fun. Catching up is only important in games like WoW.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
LOL, and it goes round and round. As always. The bottom line is that you have to buy a character or tag along and be a disposable 'tackler' (real entertaining, that one, you basically consume a few seconds and a few shots/missiles/volleys of the opposing player) or eat training time for a few years, minimum. The only decent argument I saw was someone running PvE and barely got caught by another player with less time in. The only thing is, the attacking player was probably fitted for PvP (tactics to the newer player, sure), but the new player was in for 1.75 years versus five. LOL. How many ppl looking into starting up Eve wanna be competitive in 2 years? Raise your hands... Yes, there are a finite number of skills. I doubt even the 1.75 year player had everything maxed that addressed the ship he was flying. Even if it was T1. T1 is not competitive in 0.0. Can you make a few kills? Sure if you luck out and have a good corp. But you are gonna be buying ISK to keep yourself fitted. Can you make lots of money in Eve? Sure, but you can't be training to be 'competitive' in some as yet undefined period of mere months in PvP and still be training all your indy skills or trade skills to be decent at trading.
New Players: It requires both player skill AND character skill (which is lots of time or money) to be competitive in lowsec or nulsec. Don't let any of these guys fool you. If you have a nice corp, you might make some sort of contribution in about 6~9 months. Otherwise, you'll be told to play the role of cannon fodder if they even let you in. Most have SP minimums right up front.
What?
You mean that I can't join this game...play for 6 months, and be just as skilled (player and character) as another character that's 5 years in?!?!
Players that have been playing longer are (generally) going to have more money, friends, assets, and (character) skill than me?!?!?
I can't train to be the best trader, PvPer, miner, PvE missioner, etc all at the same time?!?!?
I can't drink copious amounts of Mountain Dew and stay up for 8 weeks straight to become the leetest, epic'd out, pewpew wtfpwner of all of EvE history?!?!?
Man, this game sucks. You should be able to power-level (?) to max competitiveness, attain all epic’d out purples, and wtfleetroflmaogtfopewpewpwn all the noobs in 3 months max!
Sigh. I wish they made a game like that...
Actually, smart@55, I said be competitive. Not wipe everyone out in anything you try to do. At least you admit it, thank you. That is all I have been after; give the new guys some realistic expectations. Some of these guys lure new players in with the expectation that they're gonna pirate in nulsec or 'run with the big boys' in short order and it isn't so.
LOL, and it goes round and round. As always. The bottom line is that you have to buy a character or tag along and be a disposable 'tackler' (real entertaining, that one, you basically consume a few seconds and a few shots/missiles/volleys of the opposing player) or eat training time for a few years, minimum. The only decent argument I saw was someone running PvE and barely got caught by another player with less time in. The only thing is, the attacking player was probably fitted for PvP (tactics to the newer player, sure), but the new player was in for 1.75 years versus five. LOL. How many ppl looking into starting up Eve wanna be competitive in 2 years? Raise your hands... Yes, there are a finite number of skills. I doubt even the 1.75 year player had everything maxed that addressed the ship he was flying. Even if it was T1. T1 is not competitive in 0.0. Can you make a few kills? Sure if you luck out and have a good corp. But you are gonna be buying ISK to keep yourself fitted. Can you make lots of money in Eve? Sure, but you can't be training to be 'competitive' in some as yet undefined period of mere months in PvP and still be training all your indy skills or trade skills to be decent at trading.
New Players: It requires both player skill AND character skill (which is lots of time or money) to be competitive in lowsec or nulsec. Don't let any of these guys fool you. If you have a nice corp, you might make some sort of contribution in about 6~9 months. Otherwise, you'll be told to play the role of cannon fodder if they even let you in. Most have SP minimums right up front.
What?
You mean that I can't join this game...play for 6 months, and be just as skilled (player and character) as another character that's 5 years in?!?!
Players that have been playing longer are (generally) going to have more money, friends, assets, and (character) skill than me?!?!?
I can't train to be the best trader, PvPer, miner, PvE missioner, etc all at the same time?!?!?
I can't drink copious amounts of Mountain Dew and stay up for 8 weeks straight to become the leetest, epic'd out, pewpew wtfpwner of all of EvE history?!?!?
Man, this game sucks. You should be able to power-level (?) to max competitiveness, attain all epic’d out purples, and wtfleetroflmaogtfopewpewpwn all the noobs in 3 months max!
Sigh. I wish they made a game like that...
Actually, smart@55, I said be competitive. Not wipe everyone out in anything you try to do. At least you admit it, thank you. That is all I have been after; give the new guys some realistic expectations. Some of these guys lure new players in with the expectation that they're gonna pirate in nulsec or 'run with the big boys' in short order and it isn't so.
It really depends on the player. Players that are aggressive and smart can rise to the top of the kill board in fairly short order. The only limitation they will face is the number of different ships they can fly. Skill points are almost meaningless TBH, it's just that most players aren’t good enough to take advantage of this fact.
Kill boards are filled with dominate players in Null-sec with under a year in game. They wouldn't be able to do something like that in a game like WOW but they can in EVE. Still, it's not easy.
The bottom line is that you have to buy a character or tag along and be a disposable 'tackler' (real entertaining, that one, you basically consume a few seconds and a few shots/missiles/volleys of the opposing player) or eat training time for a few years, minimum.
This is very true.
If you lack vision, intelligence, and motivation that is.
He makes a good point: if you lack motivation, creativity, and problem solving skills.... you will probably always hate eve and you will be much happier if you just stay away.
With this attitude 2 years (or even FIVE years) of training are not going to make much difference, even if you attempt to make up for your deficiencies with tons of ISK.
How exactly is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to acquire maximum skillpoints for just ONE specific ship type? This just proves that there really is no "catching up" to speak of, veterans will ALWAYS be ahead. No other game places such an artificial barrier on character progression.
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equipment?
If you play 2-3 hours a day, slightly over a month. Depends of course on the luck and if you manage to find a raid-group.
Originally posted by WizardBlack Actually, smart@55, I said be competitive. Not wipe everyone out in anything you try to do. At least you admit it, thank you. That is all I have been after; give the new guys some realistic expectations. Some of these guys lure new players in with the expectation that they're gonna pirate in nulsec or 'run with the big boys' in short order and it isn't so.
You're trying really hard, aren't you? It's hilarious how you're grasping straws and go out of your way to badmouth eve. I'm totally sorry for you if your experience was a bad one, but stop trying to convince everyone that your inability applies to anyone starting new.
In other news, we just took a one week old character into our corp. 300k sp. The lucky bastard has 100% reimbursement..
Actually, smart@55, I said be competitive. Not wipe everyone out in anything you try to do. At least you admit it, thank you. That is all I have been after; give the new guys some realistic expectations. Some of these guys lure new players in with the expectation that they're gonna pirate in nulsec or 'run with the big boys' in short order and it isn't so.
You're trying really hard, aren't you? It's hilarious how you're grasping straws and go out of your way to badmouth eve. I'm totally sorry for you if your experience was a bad one, but stop trying to convince everyone that your inability applies to anyone starting new.
In other news, we just took a one week old character into our corp. 300k sp. The lucky bastard has 100% reimbursement..
Nice, hey, how about taking in my 2.5 year old character, wouldn't mind getting these pesky T3 ships reimbursed every time I get one blown up.
Oh wait, I didn't start when the first players did, I can't possibly have caught up and be flying T3 cruisers, (or those T2 fitted BS's, HACS, Mauraders, Covops, recons etc) never mind.
But in a related story, I once flew with a corp whose CEO went out to 0.0 on his 3rd day playing EVE, (back when you could start out with 800K of training out of the shute) and never looked back.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My major qualm with EVE was that, you do have to get into a nice corp, and do have to specialize to be able pit yourself against the vets. EVE is a game you really have to like to keep playing. I've had three month to one year on and off subscriptions and my final decision has always been that the game just does not offer enough to me to warrant paying a monthly fee.
Then again, I am the 'instant gratification epic lewt' type.
No argument will convince me that the skill training system currently in place does not favor the veterans and inhibit the new players. In most themepark games you can be up and running with a maxed out character within around a month. Not EVE, you can have a character that can in the right circumstances be viable at the top level, but one that lacks the diversity and depth of the veterans.
Having said that, EVE is not as hard to get into as many people here put it. But as a completely new 'from-scratch' players, you will be at a disadvantage to the veterans. In a game-world like EVE's this is fitting, as the game is much more than a click to move space combat romp. EVE is about communities, their relationships and player driven gameplay. If that rings your bells a few months of 'gimped' playing will reward you with a viable character, still not as good as the vets. If you want a high-end character, you buy it.
LOL, and it goes round and round. As always. The bottom line is that you have to buy a character or tag along and be a disposable 'tackler' (real entertaining, that one, you basically consume a few seconds and a few shots/missiles/volleys of the opposing player) or eat training time for a few years, minimum. The only decent argument I saw was someone running PvE and barely got caught by another player with less time in. The only thing is, the attacking player was probably fitted for PvP (tactics to the newer player, sure), but the new player was in for 1.75 years versus five. LOL. How many ppl looking into starting up Eve wanna be competitive in 2 years? Raise your hands... Yes, there are a finite number of skills. I doubt even the 1.75 year player had everything maxed that addressed the ship he was flying. Even if it was T1. T1 is not competitive in 0.0. Can you make a few kills? Sure if you luck out and have a good corp. But you are gonna be buying ISK to keep yourself fitted. Can you make lots of money in Eve? Sure, but you can't be training to be 'competitive' in some as yet undefined period of mere months in PvP and still be training all your indy skills or trade skills to be decent at trading.
New Players: It requires both player skill AND character skill (which is lots of time or money) to be competitive in lowsec or nulsec. Don't let any of these guys fool you. If you have a nice corp, you might make some sort of contribution in about 6~9 months. Otherwise, you'll be told to play the role of cannon fodder if they even let you in. Most have SP minimums right up front.
What?
You mean that I can't join this game...play for 6 months, and be just as skilled (player and character) as another character that's 5 years in?!?!
Players that have been playing longer are (generally) going to have more money, friends, assets, and (character) skill than me?!?!?
I can't train to be the best trader, PvPer, miner, PvE missioner, etc all at the same time?!?!?
I can't drink copious amounts of Mountain Dew and stay up for 8 weeks straight to become the leetest, epic'd out, pewpew wtfpwner of all of EvE history?!?!?
Man, this game sucks. You should be able to power-level (?) to max competitiveness, attain all epic’d out purples, and wtfleetroflmaogtfopewpewpwn all the noobs in 3 months max!
Sigh. I wish they made a game like that...
Actually, smart@55, I said be competitive. Not wipe everyone out in anything you try to do. At least you admit it, thank you. That is all I have been after; give the new guys some realistic expectations. Some of these guys lure new players in with the expectation that they're gonna pirate in nulsec or 'run with the big boys' in short order and it isn't so.
What does “be competitive” mean? The way you described it sounded very much like flying around and dominating everything (PvP, PvE, trade, industry, etc). Your notion of “running with the big boys” is very much a WoW-type thought process that has no place in EvE. What do you mean by “big boys”? People in big ships? I’m sure you can find plenty of asshats flying big ships that bought their EvE characters and have no idea what they’re doing. I guess you can fly around with them, if it makes you feel better to see big ships, but it’s not going to get you very far.
T1 can certainly “be competitive” in low or null sec, and achieve way more than a few kills, if they play smart and use sound tactics. Are you going to fly around in your T1 frig and wipe the floor with well equipped and skilled (player and character) battleships? No. But you sure as hell can pick a target from the plethora of uninformed players that follow advice like yours, and buy characters that can fly ships and use modules they have no clue how to operate effectively.
A new player could also do a little research and find a pirate corp that accepts new players, at which point they can certainly pirate null sec in a gang of experienced PvPers (and not simply be cannon fodder). Here are links to two such corps:
No, all things being equal, a new player will be unlikely to achieve the skill (player and character), ISK and assets of another player who started playing years before them, in 6 months time. But EvE isn’t about max-level, or being epic’d out. It’s about building your own name doing something that you enjoy, and doing it well. Are there always going to be those that are better than you? Probably. Why is that a bad thing? If nothing else, it means you’ll always have something else to improve on.
How exactly is 18 months a reasonable amount of time to acquire maximum skillpoints for just ONE specific ship type? This just proves that there really is no "catching up" to speak of, veterans will ALWAYS be ahead. No other game places such an artificial barrier on character progression.
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equipment?
If you play 2-3 hours a day, slightly over a month. Depends of course on the luck and if you manage to find a raid-group.
This post made me physically shudder.... I've never made it past level 28 in WoW (despite multiple attempts) because the lack of penalties/ rewards makes the game very thin for me. I guess it has a lot to do with where you start in gaming- EvE was my first MMO (well, second after E&B) and now anything without the same consequences, rewards, and challenges seems like fluff.
My best friend in RL loves WoW... and I've tried it for his sake multiple times. Likewise he has tried EvE multiple times.. each of us never quite enjoying the other game.
It's an important point to remember... we don't all like the same things and that is fine and good. I would like to see people stop bashing things just because they don't fit personal preference.
WoW is not a bad game because there is no death penalty.
EvE is not a bad game just because it is complex and difficult.
Plenty of room in the universe for different games/ gaming philosophies without attacking what we don't understand/ appreciate.
I did not have a negative experience with Eve. I still sub on and off and I have done trading, mining, scouting, scanning, etc. All of it mostly in nulsec. I made FC in 8 months, so yeah, skills matter. But when your best efforts are stomped on by a nanoHAC, etc. skills won't matter. There are many instances where all of the player skill in the world won't make a bit of difference against a T2 pilot with half a clue. You can't assume you will always have epic capabilities and tactics to wield your T1 stuff and the other guy in the really expensive T2 gear will be a complete dolt. As I said before, I am merely trying to season a new player's expectations with a bit of reality.
As an aside, it's easy to do 100% reimbursement to a new guy trashing smaller T1 gear. Particularly when your corp has any kind of decent nulsec mining ops going.
EVE is a game you really have to like to keep playing.
I enjoyed your post, and it made many good points.
This line is particularly funny though, don't you think?
(image in my head of a guy spending hours online thinking "god I hate this shit" lol)
Well what I meant in essence was that to the average player the learning curve is quite steep and the game world is unfamiliar, and in the worst possible cases immediately cut-throat hostile. If you continue to have fun through your first week, chances are EVE is the perfect game for you.
Personally speaking, I had a blast, but there were those few points of utter frustration, like losing my first couple of ships, that just seemed to highlight how 'outmatched' you are as a new player.
EVE is a game you really have to like to keep playing.
I enjoyed your post, and it made many good points.
This line is particularly funny though, don't you think?
(image in my head of a guy spending hours online thinking "god I hate this shit" lol)
Well what I meant in essence was that to the average player the learning curve is quite steep and the game world is unfamiliar, and in the worst possible cases immediately cut-throat hostile. If you continue to have fun through your first week, chances are EVE is the perfect game for you.
Personally speaking, I had a blast, but there were those few points of utter frustration, like losing my first couple of ships, that just seemed to highlight how 'outmatched' you are as a new player.
It's a pretty common experience to scrape resources together for weeks to buy (or build) your first cruiser only to be vaporized minutes after you enter lowsec for the fist time.
I still remember the pilot that killed me in Uphallant in my first thorax in 2004.
This is a defining moment in eve for all new players.
Many will say "screw it this isn't fair" and quit.
The people that end up loving the game will pick them selves up, dust themselves off, and say "that sucked. What have I learned that will help me avoid this in the future?"
One of the many ways that impatience and shortsightedness are self limiting in eve.
Comments
As already stated, you fail at comprehending EvE.
In other news:
I am always confused by this need to ‘catch up’ (or another WoW favorite – ‘have balanced classes’).
Veteran players have more ISK, skills, and experience than new ones?!?!
A player that began playing EvE in 2006 will (generally) perpetually have a larger skill point pool than one that started in 2009?!?!
Why are these things so shocking?
I started playing EvE in 2008. I’ve tried my hand at various professions (mining, couriering, exploring, and PvP), so my skills are somewhat spread out. Currently I’m fitting T1 frigs and roaming solo through lowsec looking for people to ransom. I get blown up a lot (especially because I’m still learning) but I also scanned down and jumped in on a veteran pirate from the Tuskers sitting at a planet and popped his Incursus with my Rifter (both T1 frigs). Know why? Because he was fit with short-range blasters and I was fit with Auto Cannons and Barrage Ammo – which meant that knowing my tactics and orbiting him at the edge of his weapon range allowed me to take him out with little-to-no damage to my ship i.e. right tools and tactics for the scenario, regardless of skill points.
To play EvE you must get over the idea of ‘max level’, ‘catching up’, and ‘balanced characters’ that are typically appropriated from other MMO’s. Play the game to enjoy it, not to be ‘the best’, and you’ll get WAY more out of it. In my experience, 9 times out of 10, knowledge and tactics wins the day over skill points.
As an aside: Check out The Blood Money Cartel. It’s an EvE pirate Corp that pretty much exclusively fly T1 frigs – and they kill a lot of big ships in those frigs.
You're wrong.
You're wrong.
Always willing to learn, please elaborate.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Always willing to learn, please elaborate.
You are thinking of Titans and Motherships (now Super Carriers). Dreads and Carriers can be docked. My Nid has been sitting docked in lowsec for a year now. It going to take a truckload of WD40 and duct tape to get that thing flying again.
What most people are saying about catching up is true... It really doesn't matter that much. I was able to roll an Amarr pirate in a couple weeks and, with careful target selection, solo cruisers. That character had roughly 1.5 million skillpoints. I was able to do it because I knew the tactics for the ship and I planned my skills accordingly. Experience trumps skillpoints any day. You can catchup in experience by joining a training guild, reading all you can, and asking questions.
Eve really is the best MMO in existence. I think all the people who make it past the initial learning curve would agree.
All Capitals can enter lowsec, supercaps too. Only supercaps can't dock.
Always willing to learn, please elaborate.
You are thinking of Titans and Motherships (now Super Carriers). Dreads and Carriers can be docked. My Nid has been sitting docked in lowsec for a year now. It going to take a truckload of WD40 and duct tape to get that thing flying again.
What most people are saying about catching up is true... It really doesn't matter that much. I was able to roll an Amarr pirate in a couple weeks and, with careful target selection, solo cruisers. That character had roughly 1.5 million skillpoints. I was able to do it because I knew the tactics for the ship and I planned my skills accordingly. Experience trumps skillpoints any day. You can catchup in experience by joining a training guild, reading all you can, and asking questions.
Eve really is the best MMO in existence. I think all the people who make it past the initial learning curve would agree.
I stand corrected then, thought none of the capitals could dock.
It is the best MMO currently in existence for many people including me, I agree
I can also understand how many people have a hard time getting into it, joining a good corp like EVE University, that can learn you alot certainly helps.
Oh and I just calculated, it takes almost 6 months to fly a T2 fitted Battlecruiser well. I find that quite reasonable.
It takes another 4 months to fly a command ship well, that is a T2 battlecruiser. Not too bad imho.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Always willing to learn, please elaborate.
You are thinking of Titans and Motherships (now Super Carriers). Dreads and Carriers can be docked. My Nid has been sitting docked in lowsec for a year now. It going to take a truckload of WD40 and duct tape to get that thing flying again.
What most people are saying about catching up is true... It really doesn't matter that much. I was able to roll an Amarr pirate in a couple weeks and, with careful target selection, solo cruisers. That character had roughly 1.5 million skillpoints. I was able to do it because I knew the tactics for the ship and I planned my skills accordingly. Experience trumps skillpoints any day. You can catchup in experience by joining a training guild, reading all you can, and asking questions.
Eve really is the best MMO in existence. I think all the people who make it past the initial learning curve would agree.
I have been playing for many years , 4+ with different toons and I have to say this man speaks the truith.
Experience, knowledge of game mechanics, will carry you MUCH FURTHER than sp will. Is sp useful? Sure is, sp lets you change roles and fly different ships and do different things. At first you can only fly frigates, and fulfill a tackler or damage support role, which many consider to be a role for noobs, however, I cannot count the number of times a good ceptor pilot was able to get a point on that key target, and hold him down long enough for your heavier ships to get on top of him.
One fight I was involved in between my old corp, Esto Perpetua, and Stain empire where tackling resulted in an overwhelming win.
Their 10ish man fleet jumped into our similar sized fleet in 6y-otw system 0.0, however they didnt all come in together, they kind of trickled in. They basicly got ripped to pieces 1 by 1 and were unable to concentrate their fire effectivly or coordinate effecitvly. They had 2 ECM ships, a scorpion and a falcon, The scorpion was dead for rights as it was stuck in the bubble and was vulnurable to fire, where as the falcon was forced to gtfo the bubble and come back at range before it could jam effectivly, both ships were setup for jamming which means they didnt have much of a tank. Range is their defense, and with the bubble it nullified the scorpions advantage, and delayed the falcon pilot from the fight long enough to make piecemeal out of most of their fleet.
Had it been a proper setup, their falcon and scorp would have been at range and would have locked down a good portion of our fleets DPS, including my guardian which you can also see saves TWO of our ships from popping in the video.
And the very last ship of theirs we got was a nighthawk, he had to be atleast 150km + range, He was too far away from ANY of us to get him before he warped, EXCEPT for the interceptor pilot. Our crow was able to tackle him, though he was popped in the process. This is sometimes refered to as suicide tackle. However, the crow pilot served his role and though he lost his 30 mil (total estimated cost) interceptor, he allowed us to get a nighthawk kill that we wouldnt have got otherwise. Nighthawks are 200+ mil ,
So for anyone who says tackling is uselsss or small ships are pointless in eve, think again. Every ship has a role and use, fulfilling that role in a group or solo setting is what makes the diff between a good player and a bad.
LOL, and it goes round and round. As always.
The bottom line is that you have to buy a character or tag along and be a disposable 'tackler' (real entertaining, that one, you basically consume a few seconds and a few shots/missiles/volleys of the opposing player) or eat training time for a few years, minimum.
The only decent argument I saw was someone running PvE and barely got caught by another player with less time in. The only thing is, the attacking player was probably fitted for PvP (tactics to the newer player, sure), but the new player was in for 1.75 years versus five. LOL.
How many ppl looking into starting up Eve wanna be competitive in 2 years? Raise your hands...
Yes, there are a finite number of skills. I doubt even the 1.75 year player had everything maxed that addressed the ship he was flying. Even if it was T1. T1 is not competitive in 0.0. Can you make a few kills? Sure if you luck out and have a good corp. But you are gonna be buying ISK to keep yourself fitted. Can you make lots of money in Eve? Sure, but you can't be training to be 'competitive' in some as yet undefined period of mere months in PvP and still be training all your indy skills or trade skills to be decent at trading.
New Players: It requires both player skill AND character skill (which is lots of time or money) to be competitive in lowsec or nulsec. Don't let any of these guys fool you. If you have a nice corp, you might make some sort of contribution in about 6~9 months. Otherwise, you'll be told to play the role of cannon fodder if they even let you in. Most have SP minimums right up front.
probably been said already ..... but ..
In level based games, 1 million Level 1 noobs wailing on a maxed Level character will achieve nothing
they will not be able to hit the high level char, thier spells will constantly fail etc etc
if you have 1 million anything wailing on you in eve, your DEAD !!!
lag permitting of course
What?
You mean that I can't join this game...play for 6 months, and be just as skilled (player and character) as another character that's 5 years in?!?!
Players that have been playing longer are (generally) going to have more money, friends, assets, and (character) skill than me?!?!?
I can't train to be the best trader, PvPer, miner, PvE missioner, etc all at the same time?!?!?
I can't drink copious amounts of Mountain Dew and stay up for 8 weeks straight to become the leetest, epic'd out, pewpew wtfpwner of all of EvE history?!?!?
Man, this game sucks. You should be able to power-level (?) to max competitiveness, attain all epic’d out purples, and wtfleetroflmaogtfopewpewpwn all the noobs in 3 months max!
Sigh. I wish they made a game like that...
I dont even think EVE is about "catching up". What are you going to catch up to? End game is what you make of it. Its all about having fun. Catching up is only important in games like WoW.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
What?
You mean that I can't join this game...play for 6 months, and be just as skilled (player and character) as another character that's 5 years in?!?!
Players that have been playing longer are (generally) going to have more money, friends, assets, and (character) skill than me?!?!?
I can't train to be the best trader, PvPer, miner, PvE missioner, etc all at the same time?!?!?
I can't drink copious amounts of Mountain Dew and stay up for 8 weeks straight to become the leetest, epic'd out, pewpew wtfpwner of all of EvE history?!?!?
Man, this game sucks. You should be able to power-level (?) to max competitiveness, attain all epic’d out purples, and wtfleetroflmaogtfopewpewpwn all the noobs in 3 months max!
Sigh. I wish they made a game like that...
Actually, smart@55, I said be competitive. Not wipe everyone out in anything you try to do. At least you admit it, thank you. That is all I have been after; give the new guys some realistic expectations. Some of these guys lure new players in with the expectation that they're gonna pirate in nulsec or 'run with the big boys' in short order and it isn't so.
What?
You mean that I can't join this game...play for 6 months, and be just as skilled (player and character) as another character that's 5 years in?!?!
Players that have been playing longer are (generally) going to have more money, friends, assets, and (character) skill than me?!?!?
I can't train to be the best trader, PvPer, miner, PvE missioner, etc all at the same time?!?!?
I can't drink copious amounts of Mountain Dew and stay up for 8 weeks straight to become the leetest, epic'd out, pewpew wtfpwner of all of EvE history?!?!?
Man, this game sucks. You should be able to power-level (?) to max competitiveness, attain all epic’d out purples, and wtfleetroflmaogtfopewpewpwn all the noobs in 3 months max!
Sigh. I wish they made a game like that...
Actually, smart@55, I said be competitive. Not wipe everyone out in anything you try to do. At least you admit it, thank you. That is all I have been after; give the new guys some realistic expectations. Some of these guys lure new players in with the expectation that they're gonna pirate in nulsec or 'run with the big boys' in short order and it isn't so.
It really depends on the player. Players that are aggressive and smart can rise to the top of the kill board in fairly short order. The only limitation they will face is the number of different ships they can fly. Skill points are almost meaningless TBH, it's just that most players aren’t good enough to take advantage of this fact.
Kill boards are filled with dominate players in Null-sec with under a year in game. They wouldn't be able to do something like that in a game like WOW but they can in EVE. Still, it's not easy.
This is very true.
If you lack vision, intelligence, and motivation that is.
He makes a good point: if you lack motivation, creativity, and problem solving skills.... you will probably always hate eve and you will be much happier if you just stay away.
With this attitude 2 years (or even FIVE years) of training are not going to make much difference, even if you attempt to make up for your deficiencies with tons of ISK.
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equipment?
If you play 2-3 hours a day, slightly over a month. Depends of course on the luck and if you manage to find a raid-group.
You're trying really hard, aren't you? It's hilarious how you're grasping straws and go out of your way to badmouth eve. I'm totally sorry for you if your experience was a bad one, but stop trying to convince everyone that your inability applies to anyone starting new.
In other news, we just took a one week old character into our corp. 300k sp. The lucky bastard has 100% reimbursement..
You're trying really hard, aren't you? It's hilarious how you're grasping straws and go out of your way to badmouth eve. I'm totally sorry for you if your experience was a bad one, but stop trying to convince everyone that your inability applies to anyone starting new.
In other news, we just took a one week old character into our corp. 300k sp. The lucky bastard has 100% reimbursement..
Nice, hey, how about taking in my 2.5 year old character, wouldn't mind getting these pesky T3 ships reimbursed every time I get one blown up.
Oh wait, I didn't start when the first players did, I can't possibly have caught up and be flying T3 cruisers, (or those T2 fitted BS's, HACS, Mauraders, Covops, recons etc) never mind.
But in a related story, I once flew with a corp whose CEO went out to 0.0 on his 3rd day playing EVE, (back when you could start out with 800K of training out of the shute) and never looked back.
It can be done, just a matter of will.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My major qualm with EVE was that, you do have to get into a nice corp, and do have to specialize to be able pit yourself against the vets. EVE is a game you really have to like to keep playing. I've had three month to one year on and off subscriptions and my final decision has always been that the game just does not offer enough to me to warrant paying a monthly fee.
Then again, I am the 'instant gratification epic lewt' type.
No argument will convince me that the skill training system currently in place does not favor the veterans and inhibit the new players. In most themepark games you can be up and running with a maxed out character within around a month. Not EVE, you can have a character that can in the right circumstances be viable at the top level, but one that lacks the diversity and depth of the veterans.
Having said that, EVE is not as hard to get into as many people here put it. But as a completely new 'from-scratch' players, you will be at a disadvantage to the veterans. In a game-world like EVE's this is fitting, as the game is much more than a click to move space combat romp. EVE is about communities, their relationships and player driven gameplay. If that rings your bells a few months of 'gimped' playing will reward you with a viable character, still not as good as the vets. If you want a high-end character, you buy it.
What?
You mean that I can't join this game...play for 6 months, and be just as skilled (player and character) as another character that's 5 years in?!?!
Players that have been playing longer are (generally) going to have more money, friends, assets, and (character) skill than me?!?!?
I can't train to be the best trader, PvPer, miner, PvE missioner, etc all at the same time?!?!?
I can't drink copious amounts of Mountain Dew and stay up for 8 weeks straight to become the leetest, epic'd out, pewpew wtfpwner of all of EvE history?!?!?
Man, this game sucks. You should be able to power-level (?) to max competitiveness, attain all epic’d out purples, and wtfleetroflmaogtfopewpewpwn all the noobs in 3 months max!
Sigh. I wish they made a game like that...
Actually, smart@55, I said be competitive. Not wipe everyone out in anything you try to do. At least you admit it, thank you. That is all I have been after; give the new guys some realistic expectations. Some of these guys lure new players in with the expectation that they're gonna pirate in nulsec or 'run with the big boys' in short order and it isn't so.
What does “be competitive” mean? The way you described it sounded very much like flying around and dominating everything (PvP, PvE, trade, industry, etc). Your notion of “running with the big boys” is very much a WoW-type thought process that has no place in EvE. What do you mean by “big boys”? People in big ships? I’m sure you can find plenty of asshats flying big ships that bought their EvE characters and have no idea what they’re doing. I guess you can fly around with them, if it makes you feel better to see big ships, but it’s not going to get you very far.
T1 can certainly “be competitive” in low or null sec, and achieve way more than a few kills, if they play smart and use sound tactics. Are you going to fly around in your T1 frig and wipe the floor with well equipped and skilled (player and character) battleships? No. But you sure as hell can pick a target from the plethora of uninformed players that follow advice like yours, and buy characters that can fly ships and use modules they have no clue how to operate effectively.
A new player could also do a little research and find a pirate corp that accepts new players, at which point they can certainly pirate null sec in a gang of experienced PvPers (and not simply be cannon fodder). Here are links to two such corps:
Blood Money Cartel http://www.bloodmoneycartel.net/forum/index.php?sid=c1ac698c8198c09b4bd810c4fac7b520
The Tuskers
http://tuskers.eve-gamers.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=22&sid=8f4d05e2020a77d83814fe80afbfe02e
No, all things being equal, a new player will be unlikely to achieve the skill (player and character), ISK and assets of another player who started playing years before them, in 6 months time. But EvE isn’t about max-level, or being epic’d out. It’s about building your own name doing something that you enjoy, and doing it well. Are there always going to be those that are better than you? Probably. Why is that a bad thing? If nothing else, it means you’ll always have something else to improve on.
So how long does it take in WOW to have a lvl 80 character with highest Tier equipment?
If you play 2-3 hours a day, slightly over a month. Depends of course on the luck and if you manage to find a raid-group.
This post made me physically shudder.... I've never made it past level 28 in WoW (despite multiple attempts) because the lack of penalties/ rewards makes the game very thin for me. I guess it has a lot to do with where you start in gaming- EvE was my first MMO (well, second after E&B) and now anything without the same consequences, rewards, and challenges seems like fluff.
My best friend in RL loves WoW... and I've tried it for his sake multiple times. Likewise he has tried EvE multiple times.. each of us never quite enjoying the other game.
It's an important point to remember... we don't all like the same things and that is fine and good. I would like to see people stop bashing things just because they don't fit personal preference.
WoW is not a bad game because there is no death penalty.
EvE is not a bad game just because it is complex and difficult.
Plenty of room in the universe for different games/ gaming philosophies without attacking what we don't understand/ appreciate.
I did not have a negative experience with Eve. I still sub on and off and I have done trading, mining, scouting, scanning, etc. All of it mostly in nulsec. I made FC in 8 months, so yeah, skills matter. But when your best efforts are stomped on by a nanoHAC, etc. skills won't matter. There are many instances where all of the player skill in the world won't make a bit of difference against a T2 pilot with half a clue. You can't assume you will always have epic capabilities and tactics to wield your T1 stuff and the other guy in the really expensive T2 gear will be a complete dolt. As I said before, I am merely trying to season a new player's expectations with a bit of reality.
As an aside, it's easy to do 100% reimbursement to a new guy trashing smaller T1 gear. Particularly when your corp has any kind of decent nulsec mining ops going.
I enjoyed your post, and it made many good points.
This line is particularly funny though, don't you think?
(image in my head of a guy spending hours online thinking "god I hate this shit" lol)
Let me reword it.
People do it. It's your own fault if you don't.
I enjoyed your post, and it made many good points.
This line is particularly funny though, don't you think?
(image in my head of a guy spending hours online thinking "god I hate this shit" lol)
Well what I meant in essence was that to the average player the learning curve is quite steep and the game world is unfamiliar, and in the worst possible cases immediately cut-throat hostile. If you continue to have fun through your first week, chances are EVE is the perfect game for you.
Personally speaking, I had a blast, but there were those few points of utter frustration, like losing my first couple of ships, that just seemed to highlight how 'outmatched' you are as a new player.
I enjoyed your post, and it made many good points.
This line is particularly funny though, don't you think?
(image in my head of a guy spending hours online thinking "god I hate this shit" lol)
Well what I meant in essence was that to the average player the learning curve is quite steep and the game world is unfamiliar, and in the worst possible cases immediately cut-throat hostile. If you continue to have fun through your first week, chances are EVE is the perfect game for you.
Personally speaking, I had a blast, but there were those few points of utter frustration, like losing my first couple of ships, that just seemed to highlight how 'outmatched' you are as a new player.
It's a pretty common experience to scrape resources together for weeks to buy (or build) your first cruiser only to be vaporized minutes after you enter lowsec for the fist time.
I still remember the pilot that killed me in Uphallant in my first thorax in 2004.
This is a defining moment in eve for all new players.
Many will say "screw it this isn't fair" and quit.
The people that end up loving the game will pick them selves up, dust themselves off, and say "that sucked. What have I learned that will help me avoid this in the future?"
One of the many ways that impatience and shortsightedness are self limiting in eve.