There is no easy way out for Cryptic. if game is difficult people whine and if its easy they still whine. Its not easy to keep both group of players happy.
Which is why I think they did this, to see which one appealed most. I hope eventually they reach a balance between the difficulty there was and this new one.
I see my clue failed. Let's try again. I imagine they might want to get some content tested during beta. I wonder how they might push some players through some episodes? Hmmmm, I wonder...
That stinks, I didn't realize they nerfed ship PVE that much. Why do MMO gamers not want a challenge in their games? It makes no freaking sense to me. Every MMO has to be easy mode for people to stick around lame, lame, lame....
Edit- just to rant a little more. Let me guess people couldn't take their backside getting handed to them by NPC craft? God forbid I die in PVE in an MMO, I must not be leet in this game, I must whine and call for NPC nerfs... Same type of person who can't even tough out normal mode in a single player game, gotta play on easy.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There is no easy way out for Cryptic. if game is difficult people whine and if its easy they still whine. Its not easy to keep both group of players happy.
It was NEVER diificult, at least in OB. I can probably count on two hands the number of people on the forums that thought the game was too hard before. The only issue was the first person in group/fleet actions getting aggro would be insta killed a good percentage of the time. Instead of fixing the AI like they said they would, they appeared to have just made your shields ridiculously strong.
Isn't the point of beta testing a game to find out what people prefer? Aren't tweaks common? It's not like the difficulty can't be ramped up a bit again, and I fully expect that it will be, as this is quite a hot topic on the official forums as well.
Indeed.
However, most companies that have been successful in this industry don't tend to make gamebreaking changes to the existing systems within the last week and a half prior to launch. This is where Cryptic repeatedly fails continously.
You don't make sweeping changes to your game just because of a few vocal crybabies. Is this not a lesson that should have been learned by now?
Whether they can reverse the changes is irrelevant, as the damage has already been done. They are turning off the playerbase before it ever has a chance to grow to like the game for what it is, in an effort to appease the whiners (i.e. the minority).
There is nothing smart or beneficial about that, period, and if it continues I fear the game will see alot less success than it deserves. All due to poor decision making and poor quality players who just want that taste of instant gratification.
There is no easy way out for Cryptic. if game is difficult people whine and if its easy they still whine. Its not easy to keep both group of players happy.
It was NEVER diificult, at least in OB. I can probably count on two hands the number of people on the forums that thought the game was too hard before. The only issue was the first person in group/fleet actions getting aggro would be insta killed a good percentage of the time. Instead of fixing the AI like they said they would, they appeared to have just made your shields ridiculously strong.
A lot of people found it difficult thats why they tweaked it. You think only couple of players can influence Cryptic in making decisions? think about it. Whatever Cryptic does is based on players feedback.
Isn't the point of beta testing a game to find out what people prefer? Aren't tweaks common? It's not like the difficulty can't be ramped up a bit again, and I fully expect that it will be, as this is quite a hot topic on the official forums as well.
Shhh! You with your logic!
If this is what I'm thinking of, the original problem was the first player to move into weapons range of an enemy group would get destroyed in about 2 seconds because all of the ships would lock and fire (at the same shield point). Maybe they thought nerfing enemy weapons might help, but didn't realize how easy it would make it.
To be fair, I engaged 3 orion ships (the small ones) with my starter light frigate. I destroyed them all, but had 92% hull, shields were depleted (had to use officer skills), lost some crew and had to rotate my shields. It did feel a little easier, but not so much so I could take the enemy vessels for granted. Without rotating shields and emergency power to shields, I don't think I would have survived.
I see my clue failed. Let's try again. I imagine they might want to get some content tested during beta. I wonder how they might push some players through some episodes? Hmmmm, I wonder...
OK, I'll bite Tim, you're saying they scaled the difficulty way down so that some upper level content could be tested in a relatively short period of time. Sounds reasonable, did the patch notes say anything to this effect, or that they were expeimenting with game balance/difficulty?
But seriously, that sort of stuff needs to be done in closed beta, open beta should actually be the build they plan to go with on launch day plus any minor defects and tweaks thrown in.
Now if they go back to the old system they'll piss off all the players who liked the new easier difficulty level and they truly are in a no win scenario.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is no easy way out for Cryptic. if game is difficult people whine and if its easy they still whine. Its not easy to keep both group of players happy.
It was NEVER diificult, at least in OB. I can probably count on two hands the number of people on the forums that thought the game was too hard before. The only issue was the first person in group/fleet actions getting aggro would be insta killed a good percentage of the time. Instead of fixing the AI like they said they would, they appeared to have just made your shields ridiculously strong.
A lot of people found it difficult thats why they tweaked it. You think only couple of players can influence Cryptic in making decisions? think about it. Whatever Cryptic does is based on players feedback.
I don't know where this feedback came from, but it wasn't the beta forums. Like I said, I think they just took the easy way out of fixing the fleet alpha strikes instead of ACTUALLY fixing it. That issue was the only thing I had seen complaints about as far as PvE difficulty.
Originally posted by Shastra You think only couple of players can influence Cryptic in making decisions?
Yes, that is exactly the case.
You must not be very familiar with Cryptic and there practices. I suggest you take the time to inform yourself, because the above statement is simply misinformation.
Cryptic is well known for doing just that!
Making sporadic, poorly planned out decisions on a whim, all because of a minority group of players who can't handle the game as it is. This has taken place in EVERY game they currently have running, not just one or two. Every single game they have developed under the Cryptic name has suffered this same fate.
Here's some food for thought though:
How about the players who, for whatever reason, seem to find the game too difficult try to come up with some proper solutions/suggestions for Cryptic to implement. Rather than just whining on the forums and getting entire systems nerfed due to the ignorance and ineptness of just a few...
Step one: Acquire IP rights to large, popular TV show or tabletop game. Step two: Hype up the fact that you are making a MMO about it. Step three: Hire employees and make said game for the lowest amount of money possible. Step four: Make game exciting at the beginning so players will tell their friends it is fun and make them buy it. Step five: Forget about the end-game and neglect putting in enough quality content past mid-game. Step six: Start closed beta. Step seven: Hype up the MMO even more. Step eight: Start open beta. Step nine: Hype up the MMO as much as you possibly can to boost box sales. Step ten: Release massive balance patch days before or on launch day. Step eleven: Collect $$$ from box sales and cut operating staff down to a minimum and go back to step one.
Can I have a license for a 24, Law & Order, or Battlestar Galactica MMO? I know how to do it!
I'm no business expert, but that doesn't sound very profitable to me. Would be curious to see someone try it some time.
I don't know where this feedback came from, but it wasn't the beta forums. Like I said, I think they just took the easy way out of fixing the fleet alpha strikes instead of ACTUALLY fixing it. That issue was the only thing I had seen complaints about as far as PvE difficulty.
It's the same thing that happened to Galaxies or any other "game" that was nerfed. A certain segment of MMO players hate having a challenge presented to them, it's probably the same group that rushes through everything to hit max level, anything that slows that down is bad, bad,bad.
They can't take the fact an actual game environment was created with a challenge inside it. The sad part is I think this group overshadows the rest, as they are the majority. Everything created for the majority must be toned down, to fit the easy mode these players are used to. It's the same reason games like demon souls sell so little, FFA full loot PVP is hated, and games like Civilization outsell true tactical strategy games. There's no easy mode!
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Isn't the point of beta testing a game to find out what people prefer? Aren't tweaks common? It's not like the difficulty can't be ramped up a bit again, and I fully expect that it will be, as this is quite a hot topic on the official forums as well.
Shhh! You with your logic!
If this is what I'm thinking of, the original problem was the first player to move into weapons range of an enemy group would get destroyed in about 2 seconds because all of the ships would lock and fire (at the same shield point). Maybe they thought nerfing enemy weapons might help, but didn't realize how easy it would make it.
That's why fantasy MMOs have Tank classes that do less damage but are made to absorb more damage. Maybe it wouldn't fit with Star Trek's lore, but that is no excuse. An AI tweak to make them not fire at the same time would give players time to react to being focused on. Also, making the AI ships simply attack random members of the group who are nearby would fix that issue.
"Originally posted by Timzilla
I see my clue failed. Let's try again. I imagine they might want to get some content tested during beta. I wonder how they might push some players through some episodes? Hmmmm, I wonder..."
If you want to do that, edit the characters so they are all whatever level they should be, give people a free XP command, or change the XP scale so players can level up to the desired focus area faster.
The main point here is that this is not the time to be making these large of changes to the game. Closed beta is the time to make balance changes and figure out what people think about your game. Open beta is the time for small tweaks, bug fixes, and load testing so it can be as finished as possible on launch day.
tactical, strategic and had to use your brain and might die ... well no shit they nerfed it. you think gamers want that? no the majority want to be able to faceroll through combat using one hand for clicking buttons and the other for eating a sandwich, or playing with their "hyperdrive". while watching TV or porn or playing with their dog, cat ... whatever
MMO gamers don't want to have to think in their games ... thats not "fun".
the Evil Raider that outgears you and makes you cry for welfare epics on the forums.
Just because 90% of people that use a forum do so to complain. Doesn't mean forum users are the majority! There must be people enjoying the new easy mode more so then there were the harder mode.
Originally posted by syntax42 Step one: Acquire IP rights to large, popular TV show or tabletop game. Step two: Hype up the fact that you are making a MMO about it. Step three: Hire employees and make said game for the lowest amount of money possible. Step four: Make game exciting at the beginning so players will tell their friends it is fun and make them buy it. Step five: Forget about the end-game and neglect putting in enough quality content past mid-game. Step six: Start closed beta. Step seven: Hype up the MMO even more. Step eight: Start open beta. Step nine: Hype up the MMO as much as you possibly can to boost box sales. Step ten: Release massive balance patch days before or on launch day. Step eleven: Collect $$$ from box sales and cut operating staff down to a minimum and go back to step one.
Can I have a license for a 24, Law & Order, or Battlestar Galactica MMO? I know how to do it!
Originally posted by blondeh Just because 90% of people that use a forum do so to complain. Doesn't mean forum users are the majority! There must be people enjoying the new easy mode more so then there were the harder mode.
If that's true, then Champions Online would be thriving.
Just because 90% of people that use a forum do so to complain. Doesn't mean forum users are the majority! There must be people enjoying the new easy mode more so then there were the harder mode.
Of course, it's no secret that the majority of gamers out there hate a challenge, or the possibility of losing. The only bad part is just about every AAA game that releases is geared toward that majority. Everything that releases is increasingly dumbed down to appease these masses, and take the safe route to the $$$.
And people wonder why some put so much hope into developers like Starvault or adventurine.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
First your are right PVE is now too easy . very little threat fighting most groups. Fill out a group and do pve its diffrent. With more people more ships attack the first guy. I think they need to make another tweek to make pve harder, or allow difficulty choice with better rewards for higher difficulty etc....
Where i dont agree is posting and telling people not to buy a game because of a recent change affecting the pve game balance. Go complain to cryptic enough complaints and they will fix it
Originally posted by Malickie Originally posted by blondeh Just because 90% of people that use a forum do so to complain. Doesn't mean forum users are the majority! There must be people enjoying the new easy mode more so then there were the harder mode.
Of course, it's no secret that the majority of gamers out there hate a challenge, or the possibility of losing. The only bad part is just about every AAA game that releases is geared toward that majority. Everything that releases is increasingly dumbed down to appease these masses, and take the safe route to the $$$. And people wonder why some put so much hope into developers like Starvault or adventurine.
Easy games bore the shit out of me, Blizzard has dumbed down WoW into easymode, everyone that I know who played WoW hates it now, I wonder how many of those 10+ million players has stopped playing it when they changed the crap in WotLK. Even after the NGE in SWG, you could be level 50 and kill level 90s without consequences, it was so screwed up and still is, you can solo krayts and nightsister elders without help.
I don't know where this feedback came from, but it wasn't the beta forums. Like I said, I think they just took the easy way out of fixing the fleet alpha strikes instead of ACTUALLY fixing it. That issue was the only thing I had seen complaints about as far as PvE difficulty.
It's the same thing that happened to Galaxies or any other "game" that was nerfed. A certain segment of MMO players hate having a challenge presented to them, it's probably the same group that rushes through everything to hit max level, anything that slows that down is bad, bad,bad.
They can't take the fact an actual game environment was created with a challenge inside it. The sad part is I think this group overshadows the rest, as they are the majority. Everything created for the majority must be toned down, to fit the easy mode these players are used to. It's the same reason games like demon souls sell so little, FFA full loot PVP is hated, and games like Civilization outsell true tactical strategy games. There's no easy mode!
I was going to stay out of this thread, but I can't let this pass -- The NGE was not brought to SWG because of any complaints by the then current players, nor the MMO community at large. The NGE had design begun on it nearly a year before it launched, even while SWG was relatively solid. The NGE was brought about purely by Marketing and the Bean Counters who wanted to make SWG as accessible to non-mmo players as Blizzard had made WoW accessible to non-mmo players.
So yeah, there is no comparison between the NGE and what Cryptic is doing now.
Okay, back to your regularly scheduled rants...
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Just because 90% of people that use a forum do so to complain. Doesn't mean forum users are the majority! There must be people enjoying the new easy mode more so then there were the harder mode.
If that's true, then Champions Online would be thriving.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
Just because 90% of people that use a forum do so to complain. Doesn't mean forum users are the majority! There must be people enjoying the new easy mode more so then there were the harder mode.
If that's true, then Champions Online would be thriving.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
While Xfire is not the best judge, I'd say it's pretty telling that Star Wars Galaxies is #134 and CO is #194. Say what you want about Xfire, but that's certainly NOT a good sign for a game that's 5 months old.
Comments
Which is why I think they did this, to see which one appealed most. I hope eventually they reach a balance between the difficulty there was and this new one.
I see my clue failed. Let's try again. I imagine they might want to get some content tested during beta. I wonder how they might push some players through some episodes? Hmmmm, I wonder...
That stinks, I didn't realize they nerfed ship PVE that much. Why do MMO gamers not want a challenge in their games? It makes no freaking sense to me. Every MMO has to be easy mode for people to stick around lame, lame, lame....
Edit- just to rant a little more. Let me guess people couldn't take their backside getting handed to them by NPC craft? God forbid I die in PVE in an MMO, I must not be leet in this game, I must whine and call for NPC nerfs... Same type of person who can't even tough out normal mode in a single player game, gotta play on easy.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It was NEVER diificult, at least in OB. I can probably count on two hands the number of people on the forums that thought the game was too hard before. The only issue was the first person in group/fleet actions getting aggro would be insta killed a good percentage of the time. Instead of fixing the AI like they said they would, they appeared to have just made your shields ridiculously strong.
Indeed.
However, most companies that have been successful in this industry don't tend to make gamebreaking changes to the existing systems within the last week and a half prior to launch. This is where Cryptic repeatedly fails continously.
You don't make sweeping changes to your game just because of a few vocal crybabies. Is this not a lesson that should have been learned by now?
Whether they can reverse the changes is irrelevant, as the damage has already been done. They are turning off the playerbase before it ever has a chance to grow to like the game for what it is, in an effort to appease the whiners (i.e. the minority).
There is nothing smart or beneficial about that, period, and if it continues I fear the game will see alot less success than it deserves. All due to poor decision making and poor quality players who just want that taste of instant gratification.
Spiraling downward...
It was NEVER diificult, at least in OB. I can probably count on two hands the number of people on the forums that thought the game was too hard before. The only issue was the first person in group/fleet actions getting aggro would be insta killed a good percentage of the time. Instead of fixing the AI like they said they would, they appeared to have just made your shields ridiculously strong.
A lot of people found it difficult thats why they tweaked it. You think only couple of players can influence Cryptic in making decisions? think about it. Whatever Cryptic does is based on players feedback.
Shhh! You with your logic!
If this is what I'm thinking of, the original problem was the first player to move into weapons range of an enemy group would get destroyed in about 2 seconds because all of the ships would lock and fire (at the same shield point). Maybe they thought nerfing enemy weapons might help, but didn't realize how easy it would make it.
To be fair, I engaged 3 orion ships (the small ones) with my starter light frigate. I destroyed them all, but had 92% hull, shields were depleted (had to use officer skills), lost some crew and had to rotate my shields. It did feel a little easier, but not so much so I could take the enemy vessels for granted. Without rotating shields and emergency power to shields, I don't think I would have survived.
OK, I'll bite Tim, you're saying they scaled the difficulty way down so that some upper level content could be tested in a relatively short period of time. Sounds reasonable, did the patch notes say anything to this effect, or that they were expeimenting with game balance/difficulty?
But seriously, that sort of stuff needs to be done in closed beta, open beta should actually be the build they plan to go with on launch day plus any minor defects and tweaks thrown in.
Now if they go back to the old system they'll piss off all the players who liked the new easier difficulty level and they truly are in a no win scenario.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It was NEVER diificult, at least in OB. I can probably count on two hands the number of people on the forums that thought the game was too hard before. The only issue was the first person in group/fleet actions getting aggro would be insta killed a good percentage of the time. Instead of fixing the AI like they said they would, they appeared to have just made your shields ridiculously strong.
A lot of people found it difficult thats why they tweaked it. You think only couple of players can influence Cryptic in making decisions? think about it. Whatever Cryptic does is based on players feedback.
I don't know where this feedback came from, but it wasn't the beta forums. Like I said, I think they just took the easy way out of fixing the fleet alpha strikes instead of ACTUALLY fixing it. That issue was the only thing I had seen complaints about as far as PvE difficulty.
Yes, that is exactly the case.
You must not be very familiar with Cryptic and there practices. I suggest you take the time to inform yourself, because the above statement is simply misinformation.
Cryptic is well known for doing just that!
Making sporadic, poorly planned out decisions on a whim, all because of a minority group of players who can't handle the game as it is. This has taken place in EVERY game they currently have running, not just one or two. Every single game they have developed under the Cryptic name has suffered this same fate.
Here's some food for thought though:
How about the players who, for whatever reason, seem to find the game too difficult try to come up with some proper solutions/suggestions for Cryptic to implement. Rather than just whining on the forums and getting entire systems nerfed due to the ignorance and ineptness of just a few...
I'm no business expert, but that doesn't sound very profitable to me. Would be curious to see someone try it some time.
You're playing STO? You've seen it then.
It's the same thing that happened to Galaxies or any other "game" that was nerfed. A certain segment of MMO players hate having a challenge presented to them, it's probably the same group that rushes through everything to hit max level, anything that slows that down is bad, bad,bad.
They can't take the fact an actual game environment was created with a challenge inside it. The sad part is I think this group overshadows the rest, as they are the majority. Everything created for the majority must be toned down, to fit the easy mode these players are used to. It's the same reason games like demon souls sell so little, FFA full loot PVP is hated, and games like Civilization outsell true tactical strategy games. There's no easy mode!
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Shhh! You with your logic!
If this is what I'm thinking of, the original problem was the first player to move into weapons range of an enemy group would get destroyed in about 2 seconds because all of the ships would lock and fire (at the same shield point). Maybe they thought nerfing enemy weapons might help, but didn't realize how easy it would make it.
That's why fantasy MMOs have Tank classes that do less damage but are made to absorb more damage. Maybe it wouldn't fit with Star Trek's lore, but that is no excuse. An AI tweak to make them not fire at the same time would give players time to react to being focused on. Also, making the AI ships simply attack random members of the group who are nearby would fix that issue.
"Originally posted by Timzilla
I see my clue failed. Let's try again. I imagine they might want to get some content tested during beta. I wonder how they might push some players through some episodes? Hmmmm, I wonder..."
If you want to do that, edit the characters so they are all whatever level they should be, give people a free XP command, or change the XP scale so players can level up to the desired focus area faster.
The main point here is that this is not the time to be making these large of changes to the game. Closed beta is the time to make balance changes and figure out what people think about your game. Open beta is the time for small tweaks, bug fixes, and load testing so it can be as finished as possible on launch day.
tactical, strategic and had to use your brain and might die ... well no shit they nerfed it. you think gamers want that? no the majority want to be able to faceroll through combat using one hand for clicking buttons and the other for eating a sandwich, or playing with their "hyperdrive". while watching TV or porn or playing with their dog, cat ... whatever
MMO gamers don't want to have to think in their games ... thats not "fun".
the Evil Raider that outgears you and makes you cry for welfare epics on the forums.
Just because 90% of people that use a forum do so to complain. Doesn't mean forum users are the majority! There must be people enjoying the new easy mode more so then there were the harder mode.
The first 3 steps were done by Perpetual.
Of course, it's no secret that the majority of gamers out there hate a challenge, or the possibility of losing. The only bad part is just about every AAA game that releases is geared toward that majority. Everything that releases is increasingly dumbed down to appease these masses, and take the safe route to the $$$.
And people wonder why some put so much hope into developers like Starvault or adventurine.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
First your are right PVE is now too easy . very little threat fighting most groups. Fill out a group and do pve its diffrent. With more people more ships attack the first guy. I think they need to make another tweek to make pve harder, or allow difficulty choice with better rewards for higher difficulty etc....
Where i dont agree is posting and telling people not to buy a game because of a recent change affecting the pve game balance. Go complain to cryptic enough complaints and they will fix it
In this case, it kinda suxx to be right:
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3339499#3339499
And people wonder why some put so much hope into developers like Starvault or adventurine.
Easy games bore the shit out of me, Blizzard has dumbed down WoW into easymode, everyone that I know who played WoW hates it now, I wonder how many of those 10+ million players has stopped playing it when they changed the crap in WotLK. Even after the NGE in SWG, you could be level 50 and kill level 90s without consequences, it was so screwed up and still is, you can solo krayts and nightsister elders without help.
It's the same thing that happened to Galaxies or any other "game" that was nerfed. A certain segment of MMO players hate having a challenge presented to them, it's probably the same group that rushes through everything to hit max level, anything that slows that down is bad, bad,bad.
They can't take the fact an actual game environment was created with a challenge inside it. The sad part is I think this group overshadows the rest, as they are the majority. Everything created for the majority must be toned down, to fit the easy mode these players are used to. It's the same reason games like demon souls sell so little, FFA full loot PVP is hated, and games like Civilization outsell true tactical strategy games. There's no easy mode!
I was going to stay out of this thread, but I can't let this pass -- The NGE was not brought to SWG because of any complaints by the then current players, nor the MMO community at large. The NGE had design begun on it nearly a year before it launched, even while SWG was relatively solid. The NGE was brought about purely by Marketing and the Bean Counters who wanted to make SWG as accessible to non-mmo players as Blizzard had made WoW accessible to non-mmo players.
So yeah, there is no comparison between the NGE and what Cryptic is doing now.
Okay, back to your regularly scheduled rants...
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
Its is thriving, then again its depends upon your own definition of what a thriving MMO is.
While Xfire is not the best judge, I'd say it's pretty telling that Star Wars Galaxies is #134 and CO is #194. Say what you want about Xfire, but that's certainly NOT a good sign for a game that's 5 months old.
the easiest game in the world has to be Lotro , you can just spam one button and beat 5 or 6 beasts it takes all the suspense out of the game