Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Item Malls are never good for any game, are they?
Oblivi0n
Member Posts: 58
When exactly do Item Malls become good for a game? Especially a subscription based game.
Even if they are cosmetic items, shouldn't these be available to everyone? I mean it's just pure greed, I don't understand how anyone thinks they are a good idea. I can understand if you have some disposable income why you might like a vanity pet or something, but then, the item itself becomes somewhat worthless doesn't it? If anyone can just toss a few bucks to get it?
If they aren't cosmetic, the problem becomes more obvious. The game then becomes who is willing to spend the most money to be the most competitive, but I don't understand why you would even play the game to begin with if you're just buying victories? Doesn't that practically defeat the purpose of playing an MMO? It's like paying for a game over screen, or an IWin button.
I don't understand anyone who supports an item mall, someone help me understand.
Comments
Yeah, it is pure greed.
I'll never play a game with an item mall, thats for sure. Item malls are designed in a way that you HAVE to invest your money in them if you want to stay competitive in the game.
I understand the servers need to be paid, but the kind of advantage/disadvantage that item malls create are really game breaking for me. And I dont understand people that play those game either. I mean, I kinda understand the people that play them "for free" (cheap bastards, easy to understand), but those that invest and support the item mall? I have no clue.
Atlantica Online is a good example of a game with an item mall that is very good. You aren't forced to buy anything to be competitive, they just give small boosts in PvP which is seperated into divisions based on win/loss so it doesn't matter too much, you just won't earn PvP points as fast as you could probably.
You can't blame companies for finding different ways to make money for their games.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I don't blame the companies for trying to bank, I blame the fools who are suckered into doing it.
For me, even what you described is gamebreaking. Some players having a distinct advantage over others based on how much money is shelled out.
I'll never play an item mall game obviously, I'm just baffled by people who do, I don't understand how paying for virtual items or advantages is fun or engaging.
Some of us don't care that the next guy over bought more digital milk for his glass and just enjoy the free milk in ours.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Well for obvious reasons, like item malls, I don't play F2P, but I see your point. Maybe sell ads inside the game? I'd probably prefer that over playing a game where my 5 dollar sword gets beat by the 10 dollar sword.
The thing I'm seeing lately is Sub-based games are starting to slip in item malls. That's a disturbing trend.
Problem is that some games have an item mall and don't sell gamebreaking items. DDO sells content packs, Wurm sells currency for deed upkeep, etc. People use the excuse that it's about OP items for sale, but really it comes down to the very idea that paying anything outside a subscription fee is ludicrous. A lot of awesome games are out there that can't make it as a blockbuster and have to resort to cheap-to-no subs and item malls, and they don't even sell offensive items - but it won't matter to people that have their minds made up that free games should pay *them* to play.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Some of us don't care that the next guy over bought more digital milk for his glass and just enjoy the free milk in ours.
Cept the free milk is worthless compared to the digital milk, then it becomes a problem, especially in pvp environments. Hence why Item mall games are pointless to try and compete in.
Depends entirely on the game. How would you monetize a f2p typical level grinder mmo? I wouldnt. thats just me though and you werent asking me.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Some of us don't care that the next guy over bought more digital milk for his glass and just enjoy the free milk in ours.
Cept the free milk is worthless compared to the digital milk, then it becomes a problem, especially in pvp environments. Hence why Item mall games are pointless to try and compete in.
And this is exactly how each one of you goes through each of these discussions. You start off saying Item Malls are all evil and must be purged. No amount of fact or truth will sway you from your stance... a stance entirely based on the least frequent scenario - a PvP MMO where the item mall sells gear or features that give a distinct advantage in PvP. Not only is it the least frequent scenario, but it's the most humorous to read on a forum where pretty much everyone agrees that PvP is the least played feature of almost every MMO... including some of the PvP ones!
So there is the possible chance that it may (but doesn't necessarily) affect an aspect of gameplay that most MMO gamers are guaranteed to least likely be engaged in. There's also the fact that 80-90 percent of the players never use the item mall. The common assumption - by those with this odd burning hatred for a business model they weren't going to use anyway - is that those players played until they "had to spend" or felt "they couldn't compete with people who swipe a card" and then left, despite the complete lack of any evidence to support that. It's a convenient crutch, so it's commonly used.
It's just a broken record at this point. Most of the arguments are illogical and the few that have any basis of any kind are using the minute exception as the rule for their premise. For the most part, it's one demographic. The rest of the world isn't caught up in this strange torch and pitchfork rally against a business model.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Some of us don't care that the next guy over bought more digital milk for his glass and just enjoy the free milk in ours.
Cept the free milk is worthless compared to the digital milk, then it becomes a problem, especially in pvp environments. Hence why Item mall games are pointless to try and compete in.
And this is exactly how each one of you goes through each of these discussions. You start off saying Item Malls are all evil and must be purged. No amount of fact or truth will sway you from your stance... a stance entirely based on the least frequent scenario - a PvP MMO where the item mall sells gear or features that give a distinct advantage in PvP. Not only is it the least frequent scenario, but it's the most humorous to read on a forum where pretty much everyone agrees that PvP is the least played feature of almost every MMO... including some of the PvP ones!
So there is the possible chance that it may (but doesn't necessarily) affect an aspect of gameplay that most MMO gamers are guaranteed to least likely be engaged in. There's also the fact that 80-90 percent of the players never use the item mall. The common assumption - by those with this odd burning hatred for a business model they weren't going to use anyway - is that those players played until they "had to spend" or felt "they couldn't compete with people who swipe a card" and then left, despite the complete lack of any evidence to support that. It's a convenient crutch, so it's commonly used.
It's just a broken record at this point. Most of the arguments are illogical and the few that have any basis of any kind are using the minute exception as the rule for their premise. For the most part, it's one demographic. The rest of the world isn't caught up in this strange torch and pitchfork rally against a business model.
Looks like someone is eager to keep their cash advantage.
Item malls are gamebreaking, no two ways about it really.
Some of us don't care that the next guy over bought more digital milk for his glass and just enjoy the free milk in ours.
Cept the free milk is worthless compared to the digital milk, then it becomes a problem, especially in pvp environments. Hence why Item mall games are pointless to try and compete in.
And this is exactly how each one of you goes through each of these discussions. You start off saying Item Malls are all evil and must be purged. No amount of fact or truth will sway you from your stance... a stance entirely based on the least frequent scenario - a PvP MMO where the item mall sells gear or features that give a distinct advantage in PvP. Not only is it the least frequent scenario, but it's the most humorous to read on a forum where pretty much everyone agrees that PvP is the least played feature of almost every MMO... including some of the PvP ones!
So there is the possible chance that it may (but doesn't necessarily) affect an aspect of gameplay that most MMO gamers are guaranteed to least likely be engaged in. There's also the fact that 80-90 percent of the players never use the item mall. The common assumption - by those with this odd burning hatred for a business model they weren't going to use anyway - is that those players played until they "had to spend" or felt "they couldn't compete with people who swipe a card" and then left, despite the complete lack of any evidence to support that. It's a convenient crutch, so it's commonly used.
It's just a broken record at this point. Most of the arguments are illogical and the few that have any basis of any kind are using the minute exception as the rule for their premise. For the most part, it's one demographic. The rest of the world isn't caught up in this strange torch and pitchfork rally against a business model.
Looks like someone is eager to keep their cash advantage.
Perfect example of broken record. If a person has no problem with item malls, it's because they are buying an advantage. Again, no amount of fact will break through your wall of myth and misinformation, and we won't get anything but a regurgitation of the same talking points over and over from you.
Broken record.
The edit you added was classic: "Item malls are gamebreaking, no two ways about it really."
Basically, the whole "but I really want to understand, guys" was a veiled excuse for another thread to preach against the devil's shop and there was really no interest in understanding anything at all. Well, I guess we can be happy that you made your intent clear early. It saves us all a lot of time.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Perfect example of broken record. If a person has no problem with item malls, it's because they are buying an advantage. Again, no amount of fact will break through your wall of myth and misinformation, and we won't get anything but a regurgitation of the same talking points over and over from you.
Broken record.
Basically, the whole "but I really want to understand, guys" was a veiled excuse for another thread to preach against the devil's shop and there was really no interest in understanding anything at all. Well, I guess we can be happy that you made your intent clear early. It saves us all a lot of time.
Huh? What myth? People are buying advantages, that's clear. You're starting to sound like the broken record to me.
I'm trying to understand why you would buy everything about a game rather than play and earn it giving it some value in game. That's what I don't understand.
If everyone can just buy tier 25 ship, then why even bother playing the game? That's what I don't understand. Then you're dragged along by the company as a complete sucker, as they up the price more and more, while everyone who plays has to keep shelling more and more out to compete. You're right about me, I avoid item malls like the plague, they are completely destructive to the game.
I guess you can shout broken record till your face it blue, it doesn't change the fact item malls are gamebreaking for most players involved. (those that aren't using a paycheck to keep one up on everyone)
Perfect example of broken record. If a person has no problem with item malls, it's because they are buying an advantage. Again, no amount of fact will break through your wall of myth and misinformation, and we won't get anything but a regurgitation of the same talking points over and over from you.
Broken record.
Basically, the whole "but I really want to understand, guys" was a veiled excuse for another thread to preach against the devil's shop and there was really no interest in understanding anything at all. Well, I guess we can be happy that you made your intent clear early. It saves us all a lot of time.
Huh? What myth? People are buying advantages, that's clear. You're starting to sound like the broken record to me.
Seriously, specific examples.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Rather than sitting there and taking shots at me for disagreeing with item malls, maybe you could explain what good it does for a game?
If a game, even an MMO, is based upon the CCG business model, how does an item mall harm the game?
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Rather than sitting there and taking shots at me for disagreeing with item malls, maybe you could explain what good it does for a game?
It pays the wages of the people working on it, thereby keeping the game running. Item malls basically run on donation, and you're pissed that other people get something out of it while you are reluctant to pay at all. Not all item malls feature OP gear either, it's just as big of a stereotype as Korean games being destined to grind on you.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
There is one example when a cash shop becomes good and that is when a F2P game,offers choice.HOWEVER the choice should NEVER go over the normal 15 dollar sub fee of p2p games,but what i have seen form all CS games,is to get all the content you would need to pay 10/20/50x more than a normal sub and that is just wrong.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Rather than sitting there and taking shots at me for disagreeing with item malls, maybe you could explain what good it does for a game?
It pays the wages of the people working on it, thereby keeping the game running. Item malls basically run on donation, and you're pissed that other people get something out of it while you are reluctant to pay at all. Not all item malls feature OP gear either, it's just as big of a stereotype as Korean games being destined to grind on you.
Good enough point, but why should subscription games have them?
I don't see what's wrong with a F2P using an item mall. For instance for guild wars you can buy all your powers. Makes no difference everyone else just needs to spend a little time to unlock them is all
No one will ever convince something is wrong with item mall just for the hell of it I don't care if you have a law degree and you specialize in debates lol
Examples?
If you are talking about XP items and other "get to the end faster" items, you do not [need] them, and I can't see why you would defend impatient spendthrifts like that. I say let em if they wanna waste money, how else is the bills gonna get paid without subs? ~and who would really play some of these if they had a sub? It's a cushy spot being f2p because everyone loves something for free, but the moment you say "we'll hook you up if you hook us up" and it's like the anti-christ to some people.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Yeah, now that is very suspect I must admit.
Rather than sitting there and taking shots at me for disagreeing with item malls, maybe you could explain what good it does for a game?
It pays the wages of the people working on it, thereby keeping the game running. Item malls basically run on donation, and you're pissed that other people get something out of it while you are reluctant to pay at all. Not all item malls feature OP gear either, it's just as big of a stereotype as Korean games being destined to grind on you.
Good enough point, but why should subscription games have them?
Same thing. If a game can hire more artists and coders because the developers spend some percentage of their time making item mall items everyone gets a better game.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
I don't blame the companies for trying to bank, I blame the fools who are suckered into doing it.
For me, even what you described is gamebreaking. Some players having a distinct advantage over others based on how much money is shelled out.
I'll never play an item mall game obviously, I'm just baffled by people who do, I don't understand how paying for virtual items or advantages is fun or engaging.
Uh, so how is that $15 subscriptiobn and 50 box fee doing? Do you play MMO or just wander the boards? You're "paying" regardless, and to be honest will probably spend less in a free MMO even if you wanted to buy some thing here and there. Although, as you said, paying for "vritual items" isn't fun.
~and that's a good enough point too. If the subs is under 10$ than it's fine as long as it lacks the OP item factor or XP incentives, sometimes you gotta charge less in subs to attract people, but then you aren't making the money you could. Any game charging market values for a sub needs to play it wizer, and instead of selling in-game items, they should allow players to sell in-game items for real money and take a share of it. Dunno the legalities of it, but it's hard to find goldsellers when players are trading stuff themselves with the host monitoring trades. Picture an in-game ebay, that's where it needs to go to.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture