People in Star Trek Online are already complaining about Cryptic Bucks needed to unlock races.
You have to pay about 6 bucks, on top of a subscription, to play a Klingon Captain.
I am not interested.
I'm with others that have posted if I'm paying 14.95 I should get everything in the game. Out o fgame stuff like, server transfers, ok, I'll play extra if I need it, but charging a sub fee AND Cryptic Bucks for in game stuff?
People in Star Trek Online are already complaining about Cryptic Bucks needed to unlock races. You have to pay about 6 bucks, on top of a subscription, to play a Klingon Captain. I am not interested. I'm with others that have posted if I'm paying 14.95 I should get everything in the game. Out o fgame stuff like, server transfers, ok, I'll play extra if I need it, but charging a sub fee AND Cryptic Bucks for in game stuff? I'll pass.
I'm a big supporter of rmt and even I'm against having to pay to play a faction. That's just retarded. Of course, I do find the whole entire micro transaction item mall concept to be retarded, but that's just me. For anyone confused, I don't consider micro transaction item malls to be "rmt" (although technically they are rmt lol). Just player to player rmt for me.
I agree that item malls are not an attractive part of the MMO world. I believe this is the same as buying gold for games as well. I play Ryzom because this game is devoid of these unattractive features. I have just grown too bitter toward games that require you to spend more money to be a superior player. I'd prefer to get stronger under my own strength.
To each their own. But to me, ones money is a natural expression of ones own strength.
That's fine, as long as you distinguish between in game, and in real life.
It when you mix the two that you destroy the immersion for me.
What you are saying would be like if a Black Belt or Navy Seal in real life had an advantage in combat in the game.
In game money should give you in game strength, the ability to buy better weapons, craft things, build cities, buy space ships, etc.
Real life money should do the same. In real life.
But real life money for in game strength?
But farming at your real life office (working for money) for in game items? Ewwww. I"m stronger in the game because in real life I"m a Doctor? Ewwwww.
You mean the fact that some people have no jobs and can play MMOs all day while you can only play at night for 2 hrs will destroy the immersion for you?
You mean that you have to end the raid because the raid leader's wife is yelling at him will destroy the immersion for you?
If so, you better quite MMO now. It is connected to the real world because real world people are playing it.
No, I don't mind if someone plays all day and I can only play 2 hours.
They will reach the level cap, and so will I. We will do the same content to get there whether if takes a week, a month, or a year.
You and I pick strawberries.
We can both pick 100 strawberries in an hour.
I pick for one hour, I have 100 strawberries.
you pick for 100 hours, and you have 10,000 strawberries. the farmer says you can't pick strawberries in that patch any more (level cap).
When I have picked for 100 hours, I will have 10,00 strawberries too, and the farmer will tell me I can't pick strawberries there any more either, same as you.
Why would that bother me?
Because you said, in YOUR words, "That's fine, as long as you distinguish between in game, and in real life.It when you mix the two that you destroy the immersion for me. " Real life schedules mixing with game playing is mixing RL with the game.
Then why would you mind if he pays for a speed up? They will reach the level cap, so will you. And you are doing the same content, just that he is getting more from you.
In fact, you can't even tell the difference between whether the high level guy you met is a no-lifer playing day or nite, or he pays to do it faster.
I agree that item malls are not an attractive part of the MMO world. I believe this is the same as buying gold for games as well. I play Ryzom because this game is devoid of these unattractive features. I have just grown too bitter toward games that require you to spend more money to be a superior player. I'd prefer to get stronger under my own strength.
To each their own. But to me, ones money is a natural expression of ones own strength.
That's fine, as long as you distinguish between in game, and in real life.
It when you mix the two that you destroy the immersion for me.
What you are saying would be like if a Black Belt or Navy Seal in real life had an advantage in combat in the game.
In game money should give you in game strength, the ability to buy better weapons, craft things, build cities, buy space ships, etc.
Real life money should do the same. In real life.
But real life money for in game strength?
But farming at your real life office (working for money) for in game items? Ewwww. I"m stronger in the game because in real life I"m a Doctor? Ewwwww.
You mean the fact that some people have no jobs and can play MMOs all day while you can only play at night for 2 hrs will destroy the immersion for you?
You mean that you have to end the raid because the raid leader's wife is yelling at him will destroy the immersion for you?
If so, you better quite MMO now. It is connected to the real world because real world people are playing it.
No, I don't mind if someone plays all day and I can only play 2 hours.
They will reach the level cap, and so will I. We will do the same content to get there whether if takes a week, a month, or a year.
You and I pick strawberries.
We can both pick 100 strawberries in an hour.
I pick for one hour, I have 100 strawberries.
you pick for 100 hours, and you have 10,000 strawberries. the farmer says you can't pick strawberries in that patch any more (level cap).
When I have picked for 100 hours, I will have 10,00 strawberries too, and the farmer will tell me I can't pick strawberries there any more either, same as you.
Why would that bother me?
Because you said, in YOUR words, "That's fine, as long as you distinguish between in game, and in real life.It when you mix the two that you destroy the immersion for me. " Real life schedules mixing with game playing is mixing RL with the game.
Then why would you mind if he pays for a speed up? They will reach the level cap, so will you. And you are doing the same content, just that he is getting more from you.
In fact, you can't even tell the difference between whether the high level guy you met is a no-lifer playing day or nite, or he pays to do it faster.
THe reason is it changes the rules of the game. It reduces my time spent doing the content to dollars and cents. I dont' mind that someone else can pay to speed up the game, I mind that I can pay to speed up the game. I COULD kill those mobs and it will take me about 40 hours to make the XP. OR, I could buy an xp potion, and do it in 5 hours. The xp potion costs 3 dollars. Well, now my in game time is reduced to 3 dollars. I have three dollars, but I don't want to play anymore.You ruined all the challenge for me.
If it's only worth 3 dollars, well, I'd just pay the 3 bucks. That's nothing to me. But I'd RATHER do the content, except, it's no longer a challenge, because I know it's just 3 dollars.
There's nothing in game and rl mixed up in P2P.
In P2P your progress is measure by in game hours played, and content completed, and those are the rules, same for everyone.
Again, you have to do 50 quests to reach level 25.
Makes no difference if you do it today, tomorrow, in a week, in a month, in a year.
The only thing that counts is how much in game time your character spends doing those 50 quests.
Your real life schedule has no effect on that.
Whether you can only play for 30 minutes in one month, or whether you can play 20 hours a day, no matter what, you must do 50 quests in the game to reach level 25.
So I really don't understand how you feel your real life schedule affects that.
If you do 25 quests, then quit the game for a year, them come back, you still need to do 25 more quests to make 50 quests to reach level 25.
Again, your real life schedule has no effect on that. You MUST do 50 quests in the game, no matter what your real life schedule is or is not.
And you CANNOT pay 3 dollars to skip it. That makes it fun.
THe reason is it changes the rules of the game. It reduces my time spent doing the content to dollars and cents. I dont' mind that someone else can pay to speed up the game, I mind that I can pay to speed up the game. I COULD kill those mobs and it will take me about 40 hours to make the XP. OR, I could buy an xp potion, and do it in 5 hours. The xp potion costs 3 dollars. Well, now my in game time is reduced to 3 dollars. I have three dollars, but I don't want to play anymore.You ruined all the challenge for me.
Hmm how does time has any relation to challenge?
If you can kill a boar once (let's use a boar with an example), you can kill it 1000 times? Killing it 1000 times is not more challenging than killing it 10 times.
Plus, it does not "change" anything. A F2P game with an item mall .. starts with exactly the same rules ... you can buy an xp portions since the release of the game. Nothing changes.
And you logic is totally screwed up. If you don't mind another person who can speed it up, then you have NO objection to xp potion because you don't have to buy it. You *can* kill all those mobs and enjoy the full 40 hours. Think of it this way, you have two options: A) keep 3 dollars & kill mob for 40 hrs spend 3 dollars & kill mob for 5 hours. Whichever way you prefer, you can have it.
So you reasoning is really weird. From the way you look at challenge (doing something 1000 times is more challenging than doing it 10 times) to your objection of the OPTION of buying a xp potion, which of course you can decline to buy.
And you CANNOT pay 3 dollars to skip it. That makes it fun.
That is a weird definition of fun. Killing a boss with a nice scripted fight is fun. Doing a well design question is fun. What does the ability to skip it has anything to do with fun?
In WOW, there are MORE quests than necessarily to level up. Thus, you can skip some if you want (without paying money, of course). That fact does not make the quest less fun because i can skip them.
Your logic is just totally weird, and probably not shared by the majority of players.
THe reason is it changes the rules of the game. It reduces my time spent doing the content to dollars and cents. I dont' mind that someone else can pay to speed up the game, I mind that I can pay to speed up the game. I COULD kill those mobs and it will take me about 40 hours to make the XP. OR, I could buy an xp potion, and do it in 5 hours. The xp potion costs 3 dollars. Well, now my in game time is reduced to 3 dollars. I have three dollars, but I don't want to play anymore.You ruined all the challenge for me. Hmm how does time has any relation to challenge? If you can kill a boar once (let's use a boar with an example), you can kill it 1000 times? Killing it 1000 times is not more challenging than killing it 10 times. Plus, it does not "change" anything. A F2P game with an item mall .. starts with exactly the same rules ... you can buy an xp portions since the release of the game. Nothing changes. And you logic is totally screwed up. If you don't mind another person who can speed it up, then you have NO objection to xp potion because you don't have to buy it. You *can* kill all those mobs and enjoy the full 40 hours. Think of it this way, you have two options: A) keep 3 dollars & kill mob for 40 hrs spend 3 dollars & kill mob for 5 hours. Whichever way you prefer, you can have it. So you reasoning is really weird. From the way you look at challenge (doing something 1000 times is more challenging than doing it 10 times) to your objection of the OPTION of buying a xp potion, which of course you can decline to buy.
Yes, I COULD keep the 3 dollars, and kill the mobs for 40 hours.
But I cannot pretend that I dont' have 3 dollars.
I have 3 dollars.
And if the rules of the game let me pay 3 dollars, why wouldn't I pay 3 dollars?
Well, I WOULD, because the rules are the rules.
And now the fun is ruined, because instead of killing mobs for 40 hours, I paid 3 dollars.
IMO, it's the same are arguing that if you want a Perma death server, you can just delete your character whenever you die.
but guess what? That is NOT the same as a perma death server.
Why? Because you can change your mind. You can decide you WON"T delete your character.
There are REAL RULES of a game, and imaginary rules.
I don't play games by the imaginary rules I make up in my head, I play by the REAl RULES coded into the game.
I mean, why not play WoW and pretend it's Star Trek Online, if you're going to make up the rules of the game in your head?
Oh, I'm not shooting a Dragon with an arrow, I'm shooting a Klingon with a phaser.
It's exactly the same to me as pretending I don't have 3 dollars.
I have three dollars.
I can't change that.
BUT, I can play a game where it doesn't matter if I have three dollars or not, because I HAVE to do the quests, or I don't make any progress in the game.
THAT makes it fun. For me. For you, it's different. That's why they make different games.
People in Star Trek Online are already complaining about Cryptic Bucks needed to unlock races. You have to pay about 6 bucks, on top of a subscription, to play a Klingon Captain. I am not interested. I'm with others that have posted if I'm paying 14.95 I should get everything in the game. Out o fgame stuff like, server transfers, ok, I'll play extra if I need it, but charging a sub fee AND Cryptic Bucks for in game stuff? I'll pass.
Hmmm... Thats interesting. I've not heard that. I'll have to check that out. I'd been steering clear of STO because of reports of issues and lack of content. I'll have to see what their shop has available. Thanks.
THe reason is it changes the rules of the game. It reduces my time spent doing the content to dollars and cents. I dont' mind that someone else can pay to speed up the game, I mind that I can pay to speed up the game. I COULD kill those mobs and it will take me about 40 hours to make the XP. OR, I could buy an xp potion, and do it in 5 hours. The xp potion costs 3 dollars. Well, now my in game time is reduced to 3 dollars. I have three dollars, but I don't want to play anymore.You ruined all the challenge for me. Hmm how does time has any relation to challenge? If you can kill a boar once (let's use a boar with an example), you can kill it 1000 times? Killing it 1000 times is not more challenging than killing it 10 times. Plus, it does not "change" anything. A F2P game with an item mall .. starts with exactly the same rules ... you can buy an xp portions since the release of the game. Nothing changes. And you logic is totally screwed up. If you don't mind another person who can speed it up, then you have NO objection to xp potion because you don't have to buy it. You *can* kill all those mobs and enjoy the full 40 hours. Think of it this way, you have two options: A) keep 3 dollars & kill mob for 40 hrs spend 3 dollars & kill mob for 5 hours. Whichever way you prefer, you can have it. So you reasoning is really weird. From the way you look at challenge (doing something 1000 times is more challenging than doing it 10 times) to your objection of the OPTION of buying a xp potion, which of course you can decline to buy.
Yes, I COULD keep the 3 dollars, and kill the mobs for 40 hours.
But I cannot pretend that I dont' have 3 dollars.
I have 3 dollars.
And if the rules of the game let me pay 3 dollars, why wouldn't I pay 3 dollars?
Well, I WOULD, because the rules are the rules.
And now the fun is ruined, because instead of killing mobs for 40 hours, I paid 3 dollars.
IMO, it's the same are arguing that if you want a Perma death server, you can just delete your character whenever you die.
but guess what? That is NOT the same as a perma death server.
Why? Because you can change your mind. You can decide you WON"T delete your character.
There are REAL RULES of a game, and imaginary rules.
I don't play games by the imaginary rules I make up in my head, I play by the REAl RULES coded into the game.
I mean, why not play WoW and pretend it's Star Trek Online, if you're going to make up the rules of the game in your head?
Oh, I'm not shooting a Dragon with an arrow, I'm shooting a Klingon with a phaser.
It's exactly the same to me as pretending I don't have 3 dollars.
I have three dollars.
I can't change that.
BUT, I can play a game where it doesn't matter if I have three dollars or not, because I HAVE to do the quests, or I don't make any progress in the game.
THAT makes it fun. For me. For you, it's different. That's why they make different games.
Sure you have 3 dollars, and you could purchase the XP potion. But you just said that isn't fun for you. So why not simply make the *decision*(your own choice) not to purchase it? That way your fun isn't spoiled, and you can grind mobs for that 40 hours to your hearts content. Its all about choices. Simply because you can do a thing, does not mean that you should do that thing. That being said, why does someone else having the same choices you have(which you have decided not to take) does that do anything to *your* fun?
THe reason is it changes the rules of the game. It reduces my time spent doing the content to dollars and cents. I dont' mind that someone else can pay to speed up the game, I mind that I can pay to speed up the game. I COULD kill those mobs and it will take me about 40 hours to make the XP. OR, I could buy an xp potion, and do it in 5 hours. The xp potion costs 3 dollars. Well, now my in game time is reduced to 3 dollars. I have three dollars, but I don't want to play anymore.You ruined all the challenge for me. Hmm how does time has any relation to challenge? If you can kill a boar once (let's use a boar with an example), you can kill it 1000 times? Killing it 1000 times is not more challenging than killing it 10 times. Plus, it does not "change" anything. A F2P game with an item mall .. starts with exactly the same rules ... you can buy an xp portions since the release of the game. Nothing changes. And you logic is totally screwed up. If you don't mind another person who can speed it up, then you have NO objection to xp potion because you don't have to buy it. You *can* kill all those mobs and enjoy the full 40 hours. Think of it this way, you have two options: A) keep 3 dollars & kill mob for 40 hrs spend 3 dollars & kill mob for 5 hours. Whichever way you prefer, you can have it. So you reasoning is really weird. From the way you look at challenge (doing something 1000 times is more challenging than doing it 10 times) to your objection of the OPTION of buying a xp potion, which of course you can decline to buy.
Yes, I COULD keep the 3 dollars, and kill the mobs for 40 hours.
But I cannot pretend that I dont' have 3 dollars.
I have 3 dollars.
And if the rules of the game let me pay 3 dollars, why wouldn't I pay 3 dollars?
Well, I WOULD, because the rules are the rules.
And now the fun is ruined, because instead of killing mobs for 40 hours, I paid 3 dollars.
IMO, it's the same are arguing that if you want a Perma death server, you can just delete your character whenever you die.
but guess what? That is NOT the same as a perma death server.
Why? Because you can change your mind. You can decide you WON"T delete your character.
There are REAL RULES of a game, and imaginary rules.
I don't play games by the imaginary rules I make up in my head, I play by the REAl RULES coded into the game.
I mean, why not play WoW and pretend it's Star Trek Online, if you're going to make up the rules of the game in your head?
Oh, I'm not shooting a Dragon with an arrow, I'm shooting a Klingon with a phaser.
It's exactly the same to me as pretending I don't have 3 dollars.
I have three dollars.
I can't change that.
BUT, I can play a game where it doesn't matter if I have three dollars or not, because I HAVE to do the quests, or I don't make any progress in the game.
THAT makes it fun. For me. For you, it's different. That's why they make different games.
Sure you have 3 dollars, and you could purchase the XP potion. But you just said that isn't fun for you. So why not simply make the *decision*(your own choice) not to purchase it? That way your fun isn't spoiled, and you can grind mobs for that 40 hours to your hearts content. Its all about choices. Simply because you can do a thing, does not mean that you should do that thing. That being said, why does someone else having the same choices you have(which you have decided not to take) does that do anything to *your* fun?
Why not pretend that you're playing a sci fi game when you play WoW?
Why delete your character when you die and pretend you are playing perma death?
Why not pretend the NPC's are players and that you are playing RvR in all MMORPGs?
The rules are what they are.
I don't make them, the devs make them.
If you like to pretend there are different rules in your games, that's fine.
I don't make up rules in my games that exist only in my head. I play the game with the rules that actually exist.
The rules in a F2P game are you can buy xp potions, then I'm buying them. That's the game.
Again, I didnt' make the rules, the Devs made them.
If the rules say you can buy a maxed out toon at end game, then I'm buying one.
But that wouldn't be a fun game for me, so I wouldnt' play it.
I have no problem if that's a fun game for you.
I am going to take EVERY advantage the game gives me.
Why would I not? Why would I make up rules for a game, when I can just play a game with actual rules and game mechanics I like?
I guess what you dont' get is simply knowing I could buy an xp potion spoils the fun, whether I buy it or not.
I know it's there. How can I pretend I don't know?
And I have 3 dollars. How can I pretend I dont' have 3 dollars?
that means what I'm doing isn't an adventure anymore, it's just 3 dollars.
Yes, I COULD keep the 3 dollars, and kill the mobs for 40 hours. But I cannot pretend that I dont' have 3 dollars. I have 3 dollars. And if the rules of the game let me pay 3 dollars, why wouldn't I pay 3 dollars? Well, I WOULD, because the rules are the rules. ROFL .. that is the most screwed up logic I have ever seen. You equate an OPTION in game to what you must do? The rule says you have a CHOICE. Do you know what that word means? Just like I have a CHOICE to play a mage and a warrior in wow. Does everyone HAVE to play a mage because the choice is there? You wouldn't because you don't LIKE that choice. It is that simple. Just like i like MAGE more than WARRIOR so i play a MAGE, NOT a warrior. Can it be simpler? Geez.
I will make it simple for you. Item malls ruin my fun. Do you think you can argue me into having fun in an item mall game?
Think about this. The Mage and Warrior are balanced, if the game is any good.
It doesn't matter which one I choose, they won't make me get to the level cap any faster.
If one was MUCH, MUCH faster, I would choose that one as it would seem to be the superior class.
There are two weapons, the katana and the two handed sword. I think the two handed sword looks cool, but the katana does double damage.
I could "pretend" like you suggest that the katana doesn't do double the damage, but in reality it does, so I'm picking that as my weapon.
As I said earilier. If you want to pretend that an advantage in the game doesn't exist, so you don't use it, that's fine, go ahead.
But I'm using the rules of the game that exist to my advantage.
And the rules of a F2P game are you can buy your way to the top faster. And I have money, so I'd be grinding mobs and the whole time I'd be thinking, gee, why am I grinding these mobs? I can just pay 3 dollars and skip ahead faster.
And the moment I do that, the game gets easier, and I'm bored.
But if I don't do it, it's to me (I understand you think differently) like I"m intentionally gimping myself. And I'm not going to do that in a game. I'm going to play a game like the Devs intended for it to be played, with all the advantages that exist.
You can pretend the game is anything you want to. I don't mind. I will not pretend the game is anything other than it is.
And in F2P that means game play reduced to dollars.
Yes, I COULD keep the 3 dollars, and kill the mobs for 40 hours. But I cannot pretend that I dont' have 3 dollars. I have 3 dollars. And if the rules of the game let me pay 3 dollars, why wouldn't I pay 3 dollars? Well, I WOULD, because the rules are the rules. ROFL .. that is the most screwed up logic I have ever seen. You equate an OPTION in game to what you must do? The rule says you have a CHOICE. Do you know what that word means? Just like I have a CHOICE to play a mage and a warrior in wow. Does everyone HAVE to play a mage because the choice is there? You wouldn't because you don't LIKE that choice. It is that simple. Just like i like MAGE more than WARRIOR so i play a MAGE, NOT a warrior. Can it be simpler? Geez.
The problem is that the "choices" of RMT are pushed on players by developers intentionally designing that games so that not purchasing RMT makes the game as long, boring, and tedious as possible. In other words, those games are designed to severely limit the enjoyability of the game unless you open up your wallet.
Which many people would rather forgo simply by playing a subscription game where they never need to worry about whether or not their gameplay is suffering because they didn't empty out their wallet.
Yes, I COULD keep the 3 dollars, and kill the mobs for 40 hours. But I cannot pretend that I dont' have 3 dollars. I have 3 dollars. And if the rules of the game let me pay 3 dollars, why wouldn't I pay 3 dollars? Well, I WOULD, because the rules are the rules. ROFL .. that is the most screwed up logic I have ever seen. You equate an OPTION in game to what you must do? The rule says you have a CHOICE. Do you know what that word means? Just like I have a CHOICE to play a mage and a warrior in wow. Does everyone HAVE to play a mage because the choice is there? You wouldn't because you don't LIKE that choice. It is that simple. Just like i like MAGE more than WARRIOR so i play a MAGE, NOT a warrior. Can it be simpler? Geez.
I will make it simple for you. Item malls ruin my fun. Do you think you can argue me into having fun in an item mall game?
Think about this. The Mage and Warrior are balanced, if the game is any good.
It doesn't matter which one I choose, they won't make me get to the level cap any faster.
If one was MUCH, MUCH faster, I would choose that one as it would seem to be the superior class.
There are two weapons, the katana and the two handed sword. I think the two handed sword looks cool, but the katana does double damage.
I could "pretend" like you suggest that the katana doesn't do double the damage, but in reality it does, so I'm picking that as my weapon.
As I said earilier. If you want to pretend that an advantage in the game doesn't exist, so you don't use it, that's fine, go ahead.
But I'm using the rules of the game that exist to my advantage.
And the rules of a F2P game are you can buy your way to the top faster. And I have money, so I'd be grinding mobs and the whole time I'd be thinking, gee, why am I grinding these mobs? I can just pay 3 dollars and skip ahead faster.
And the moment I do that, the game gets easier, and I'm bored.
But if I don't do it, it's to me (I understand you think differently) like I"m intentionally gimping myself. And I'm not going to do that in a game. I'm going to play a game like the Devs intended for it to be played, with all the advantages that exist.
You can pretend the game is anything you want to. I don't mind. I will not pretend the game is anything other than it is.
And in F2P that means game play reduced to dollars.
I don't want dollars, I want a game.
Simple solution then. Don't play games with item shops. Problem solved. Its obvious that we are looking at this in entirely different fashions, but thats simply human nature. Bottom line, don't play games you don't enjoy.
I will make it simple for you. Item malls ruin my fun. Do you think you can argue me into having fun in an item mall game?
Nope. Of course not. I just don't think your preference has any logic to it. Just say that you don't like it .. is good enough. People are different .. they like and dislike different things. None of it .. is very logical.
The problem is that the "choices" of RMT are pushed on players by developers intentionally designing that games so that not purchasing RMT makes the game as long, boring, and tedious as possible. In other words, those games are designed to severely limit the enjoyability of the game unless you open up your wallet.
Which many people would rather forgo simply by playing a subscription game where they never need to worry about whether or not their gameplay is suffering because they didn't empty out their wallet.
Both assertions are not true.
The fact that many F2P games have a lot of free riders (people who play but not pay .. in fact, only a small percentage pays) is proof that for these people, the game without purchasing is fun enough to continue playing. If the game is not enjoyable, why would one even play it?
The fact that only a small percentage of people pays show that it is a real choice being exercised everyday.
In fact, my personal experience is that DDO is an enjoyable game, without even paying a dime.
The fact that many of these games have tons of non-paying players (DDO increases their population by a huge amount, RoM & Maple Story have millions of players) show that many people will play F2P games and have fun.
I will make it simple for you. Item malls ruin my fun. Do you think you can argue me into having fun in an item mall game?
Nope. Of course not. I just don't think your preference has any logic to it. Just say that you don't like it .. is good enough. People are different .. they like and dislike different things. None of it .. is very logical.
I agree. I think your acceptance of RMT is not logical. You think my refusal of RMT is not logical.
So, I could say the same to you. Just say you like RMT, even if it's not logical.
The only thing that's importnat is if you like the game or not.
You like RMT games, I don't.
At the moment they are still making both models for us to play.
The problem is that the "choices" of RMT are pushed on players by developers intentionally designing that games so that not purchasing RMT makes the game as long, boring, and tedious as possible. In other words, those games are designed to severely limit the enjoyability of the game unless you open up your wallet. Which many people would rather forgo simply by playing a subscription game where they never need to worry about whether or not their gameplay is suffering because they didn't empty out their wallet. Both assertions are not true. The fact that many F2P games have a lot of free riders (people who play but not pay .. in fact, only a small percentage pays) is proof that for these people, the game without purchasing is fun enough to continue playing. If the game is not enjoyable, why would one even play it? The fact that only a small percentage of people pays show that it is a real choice being exercised everyday. In fact, my personal experience is that DDO is an enjoyable game, without even paying a dime. The fact that many of these games have tons of non-paying players (DDO increases their population by a huge amount, RoM & Maple Story have millions of players) show that many people will play F2P games and have fun.
Would you rather have steak and potatos or a raw onion?
What if the steak and potatos costs 14.95, and the onion is free?
Many people will take the free onion.
Sure, they like steak and potatos, but they just dont' want to pay.
The problem is that the "choices" of RMT are pushed on players by developers intentionally designing that games so that not purchasing RMT makes the game as long, boring, and tedious as possible. In other words, those games are designed to severely limit the enjoyability of the game unless you open up your wallet. Which many people would rather forgo simply by playing a subscription game where they never need to worry about whether or not their gameplay is suffering because they didn't empty out their wallet. Both assertions are not true. The fact that many F2P games have a lot of free riders (people who play but not pay .. in fact, only a small percentage pays) is proof that for these people, the game without purchasing is fun enough to continue playing. If the game is not enjoyable, why would one even play it? The fact that only a small percentage of people pays show that it is a real choice being exercised everyday. In fact, my personal experience is that DDO is an enjoyable game, without even paying a dime. The fact that many of these games have tons of non-paying players (DDO increases their population by a huge amount, RoM & Maple Story have millions of players) show that many people will play F2P games and have fun.
Why would they play it if it's not very enjoyable? Simple, Because it's free. There are many people who will put up with a lot of hassle or poor quality just to save money. There's a reason why so many people shop at Walmart, and it has nothing to do with high quality or a positive shopping experience. It has nearly everything to do with low prices.
A F2P game having a huge portion of it's playerbase completely content not paying for the game, actually speaks more to the fact that the game simply isn't worth spending money on. Is this statement hypocritical? Not really. The entire F2P system however, can be considered hypocritical. They want as many people playing as possible, which they achieve by making it "free" to play, but at the same time they want to get their subscribers to pay as much as possible.
There are a lot of people who want something for free, so they play F2P games and disregard item malls. There are others that want to be able to pay their way to the top so they enjoy item malls. And then, there are people who don't mind paying a subscription to play a decent MMO, but dislike item malls.
The first two lump together well because the F2P players put up with a lot of inconveniences, simply because it's free, so Item Malls don't bother them. The last group however, prefers to stick to it's model, and only it's model. That is why I continue to suggest that Item malls stay exclusive to F2P games, and out of P2P.
I will make it simple for you. Item malls ruin my fun. Do you think you can argue me into having fun in an item mall game?
Nope. Of course not. I just don't think your preference has any logic to it. Just say that you don't like it .. is good enough. People are different .. they like and dislike different things. None of it .. is very logical.
I agree. I think your acceptance of RMT is not logical. You think my refusal of RMT is not logical.
So, I could say the same to you. Just say you like RMT, even if it's not logical.
The only thing that's importnat is if you like the game or not.
You like RMT games, I don't.
At the moment they are still making both models for us to play.
No I didn't say I like RMT games. I said I will play a fun game and the payment option is not a factor of the fun. There is a difference.
The problem is that the "choices" of RMT are pushed on players by developers intentionally designing that games so that not purchasing RMT makes the game as long, boring, and tedious as possible. In other words, those games are designed to severely limit the enjoyability of the game unless you open up your wallet. Which many people would rather forgo simply by playing a subscription game where they never need to worry about whether or not their gameplay is suffering because they didn't empty out their wallet. Both assertions are not true. The fact that many F2P games have a lot of free riders (people who play but not pay .. in fact, only a small percentage pays) is proof that for these people, the game without purchasing is fun enough to continue playing. If the game is not enjoyable, why would one even play it? The fact that only a small percentage of people pays show that it is a real choice being exercised everyday. In fact, my personal experience is that DDO is an enjoyable game, without even paying a dime. The fact that many of these games have tons of non-paying players (DDO increases their population by a huge amount, RoM & Maple Story have millions of players) show that many people will play F2P games and have fun.
Why would they play it if it's not very enjoyable? Simple, Because it's free. There are many people who will put up with a lot of hassle or poor quality just to save money. There's a reason why so many people shop at Walmart, and it has nothing to do with high quality or a positive shopping experience. It has nearly everything to do with low prices.
A F2P game having a huge portion of it's playerbase completely content not paying for the game, actually speaks more to the fact that the game simply isn't worth spending money on. Is this statement hypocritical? Not really. The entire F2P system however, can be considered hypocritical. They want as many people playing as possible, which they achieve by making it "free" to play, but at the same time they want to get their subscribers to pay as much as possible.
There are a lot of people who want something for free, so they play F2P games and disregard item malls. There are others that want to be able to pay their way to the top so they enjoy item malls. And then, there are people who don't mind paying a subscription to play a decent MMO, but dislike item malls.
The first two lump together well because the F2P players put up with a lot of inconveniences, simply because it's free, so Item Malls don't bother them. The last group however, prefers to stick to it's model, and only it's model. That is why I continue to suggest that Item malls stay exclusive to F2P games, and out of P2P.
Hmm .. it is fun ENOUGH if they play it. I don't see them go read shakespear. That is totally free too.
The OPERATING WORD is fun ENOUGH. The adjective "very" is subjective anyway. Only action matters and the action of these players tell me that they consider F2P games enjoyable ENOUGH to spend their time on it.
The problem is that the "choices" of RMT are pushed on players by developers intentionally designing that games so that not purchasing RMT makes the game as long, boring, and tedious as possible. In other words, those games are designed to severely limit the enjoyability of the game unless you open up your wallet. Which many people would rather forgo simply by playing a subscription game where they never need to worry about whether or not their gameplay is suffering because they didn't empty out their wallet. Both assertions are not true. The fact that many F2P games have a lot of free riders (people who play but not pay .. in fact, only a small percentage pays) is proof that for these people, the game without purchasing is fun enough to continue playing. If the game is not enjoyable, why would one even play it? The fact that only a small percentage of people pays show that it is a real choice being exercised everyday. In fact, my personal experience is that DDO is an enjoyable game, without even paying a dime. The fact that many of these games have tons of non-paying players (DDO increases their population by a huge amount, RoM & Maple Story have millions of players) show that many people will play F2P games and have fun.
Would you rather have steak and potatos or a raw onion?
What if the steak and potatos costs 14.95, and the onion is free?
Many people will take the free onion.
Sure, they like steak and potatos, but they just dont' want to pay.
So? They still like the onion ENOUGH to take it. If they hate onions (and assuming they can sell it .. just like a MMO), they won't even bother to pick it up. Sure they like steaks & potatoes better .. does not mean that they don't like the onion a little.
The problem is that the "choices" of RMT are pushed on players by developers intentionally designing that games so that not purchasing RMT makes the game as long, boring, and tedious as possible. In other words, those games are designed to severely limit the enjoyability of the game unless you open up your wallet. Which many people would rather forgo simply by playing a subscription game where they never need to worry about whether or not their gameplay is suffering because they didn't empty out their wallet. Both assertions are not true. The fact that many F2P games have a lot of free riders (people who play but not pay .. in fact, only a small percentage pays) is proof that for these people, the game without purchasing is fun enough to continue playing. If the game is not enjoyable, why would one even play it? The fact that only a small percentage of people pays show that it is a real choice being exercised everyday. In fact, my personal experience is that DDO is an enjoyable game, without even paying a dime. The fact that many of these games have tons of non-paying players (DDO increases their population by a huge amount, RoM & Maple Story have millions of players) show that many people will play F2P games and have fun.
Would you rather have steak and potatos or a raw onion?
What if the steak and potatos costs 14.95, and the onion is free?
Many people will take the free onion.
Sure, they like steak and potatos, but they just dont' want to pay.
So? They still like the onion ENOUGH to take it. If they hate onions (and assuming they can sell it .. just like a MMO), they won't even bother to pick it up. Sure they like steaks & potatoes better .. does not mean that they don't like the onion a little.
I agree. For people that dont' have money, a raw onion, or a F2P game without buying items in the cash shop, is just fine.
The problem is that the "choices" of RMT are pushed on players by developers intentionally designing that games so that not purchasing RMT makes the game as long, boring, and tedious as possible. In other words, those games are designed to severely limit the enjoyability of the game unless you open up your wallet. Which many people would rather forgo simply by playing a subscription game where they never need to worry about whether or not their gameplay is suffering because they didn't empty out their wallet. Both assertions are not true. The fact that many F2P games have a lot of free riders (people who play but not pay .. in fact, only a small percentage pays) is proof that for these people, the game without purchasing is fun enough to continue playing. If the game is not enjoyable, why would one even play it? The fact that only a small percentage of people pays show that it is a real choice being exercised everyday. In fact, my personal experience is that DDO is an enjoyable game, without even paying a dime. The fact that many of these games have tons of non-paying players (DDO increases their population by a huge amount, RoM & Maple Story have millions of players) show that many people will play F2P games and have fun.
Why would they play it if it's not very enjoyable? Simple, Because it's free. There are many people who will put up with a lot of hassle or poor quality just to save money. There's a reason why so many people shop at Walmart, and it has nothing to do with high quality or a positive shopping experience. It has nearly everything to do with low prices.
A F2P game having a huge portion of it's playerbase completely content not paying for the game, actually speaks more to the fact that the game simply isn't worth spending money on. Is this statement hypocritical? Not really. The entire F2P system however, can be considered hypocritical. They want as many people playing as possible, which they achieve by making it "free" to play, but at the same time they want to get their subscribers to pay as much as possible.
There are a lot of people who want something for free, so they play F2P games and disregard item malls. There are others that want to be able to pay their way to the top so they enjoy item malls. And then, there are people who don't mind paying a subscription to play a decent MMO, but dislike item malls.
The first two lump together well because the F2P players put up with a lot of inconveniences, simply because it's free, so Item Malls don't bother them. The last group however, prefers to stick to it's model, and only it's model. That is why I continue to suggest that Item malls stay exclusive to F2P games, and out of P2P.
Hmm .. it is fun ENOUGH if they play it. I don't see them go read shakespear. That is totally free too.
The OPERATING WORD is fun ENOUGH. The adjective "very" is subjective anyway. Only action matters and the action of these players tell me that they consider F2P games enjoyable ENOUGH to spend their time on it.
In fact, there are millions of them.
Playing a F2P MMO while avoiding using the item malls is fun enough for people who value free gameplay over quality gameplay.
For people who want quality gameplay without having to deal with item malls, F2P doesn't work.
Hence once again, leave item malls to F2P where the people who want to play for free or have item malls will play them, and out of subscription based games where the majority of people don't want them. Most people who want item malls are already playing games with them, and those who do not want them are paying subscription games that do not have them. Mixing Item malls with subscription based games only ends up driving people away in frustration. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp.
Comments
People in Star Trek Online are already complaining about Cryptic Bucks needed to unlock races.
You have to pay about 6 bucks, on top of a subscription, to play a Klingon Captain.
I am not interested.
I'm with others that have posted if I'm paying 14.95 I should get everything in the game. Out o fgame stuff like, server transfers, ok, I'll play extra if I need it, but charging a sub fee AND Cryptic Bucks for in game stuff?
I'll pass.
I'm a big supporter of rmt and even I'm against having to pay to play a faction. That's just retarded. Of course, I do find the whole entire micro transaction item mall concept to be retarded, but that's just me. For anyone confused, I don't consider micro transaction item malls to be "rmt" (although technically they are rmt lol). Just player to player rmt for me.
To each their own. But to me, ones money is a natural expression of ones own strength.
That's fine, as long as you distinguish between in game, and in real life.
It when you mix the two that you destroy the immersion for me.
What you are saying would be like if a Black Belt or Navy Seal in real life had an advantage in combat in the game.
In game money should give you in game strength, the ability to buy better weapons, craft things, build cities, buy space ships, etc.
Real life money should do the same. In real life.
But real life money for in game strength?
But farming at your real life office (working for money) for in game items? Ewwww. I"m stronger in the game because in real life I"m a Doctor? Ewwwww.
You mean the fact that some people have no jobs and can play MMOs all day while you can only play at night for 2 hrs will destroy the immersion for you?
You mean that you have to end the raid because the raid leader's wife is yelling at him will destroy the immersion for you?
If so, you better quite MMO now. It is connected to the real world because real world people are playing it.
No, I don't mind if someone plays all day and I can only play 2 hours.
They will reach the level cap, and so will I. We will do the same content to get there whether if takes a week, a month, or a year.
You and I pick strawberries.
We can both pick 100 strawberries in an hour.
I pick for one hour, I have 100 strawberries.
you pick for 100 hours, and you have 10,000 strawberries. the farmer says you can't pick strawberries in that patch any more (level cap).
When I have picked for 100 hours, I will have 10,00 strawberries too, and the farmer will tell me I can't pick strawberries there any more either, same as you.
Why would that bother me?
Because you said, in YOUR words, "That's fine, as long as you distinguish between in game, and in real life.It when you mix the two that you destroy the immersion for me. " Real life schedules mixing with game playing is mixing RL with the game.
Then why would you mind if he pays for a speed up? They will reach the level cap, so will you. And you are doing the same content, just that he is getting more from you.
In fact, you can't even tell the difference between whether the high level guy you met is a no-lifer playing day or nite, or he pays to do it faster.
To each their own. But to me, ones money is a natural expression of ones own strength.
That's fine, as long as you distinguish between in game, and in real life.
It when you mix the two that you destroy the immersion for me.
What you are saying would be like if a Black Belt or Navy Seal in real life had an advantage in combat in the game.
In game money should give you in game strength, the ability to buy better weapons, craft things, build cities, buy space ships, etc.
Real life money should do the same. In real life.
But real life money for in game strength?
But farming at your real life office (working for money) for in game items? Ewwww. I"m stronger in the game because in real life I"m a Doctor? Ewwwww.
You mean the fact that some people have no jobs and can play MMOs all day while you can only play at night for 2 hrs will destroy the immersion for you?
You mean that you have to end the raid because the raid leader's wife is yelling at him will destroy the immersion for you?
If so, you better quite MMO now. It is connected to the real world because real world people are playing it.
No, I don't mind if someone plays all day and I can only play 2 hours.
They will reach the level cap, and so will I. We will do the same content to get there whether if takes a week, a month, or a year.
You and I pick strawberries.
We can both pick 100 strawberries in an hour.
I pick for one hour, I have 100 strawberries.
you pick for 100 hours, and you have 10,000 strawberries. the farmer says you can't pick strawberries in that patch any more (level cap).
When I have picked for 100 hours, I will have 10,00 strawberries too, and the farmer will tell me I can't pick strawberries there any more either, same as you.
Why would that bother me?
Because you said, in YOUR words, "That's fine, as long as you distinguish between in game, and in real life.It when you mix the two that you destroy the immersion for me. " Real life schedules mixing with game playing is mixing RL with the game.
Then why would you mind if he pays for a speed up? They will reach the level cap, so will you. And you are doing the same content, just that he is getting more from you.
In fact, you can't even tell the difference between whether the high level guy you met is a no-lifer playing day or nite, or he pays to do it faster.
THe reason is it changes the rules of the game. It reduces my time spent doing the content to dollars and cents. I dont' mind that someone else can pay to speed up the game, I mind that I can pay to speed up the game. I COULD kill those mobs and it will take me about 40 hours to make the XP. OR, I could buy an xp potion, and do it in 5 hours. The xp potion costs 3 dollars. Well, now my in game time is reduced to 3 dollars. I have three dollars, but I don't want to play anymore.You ruined all the challenge for me.
If it's only worth 3 dollars, well, I'd just pay the 3 bucks. That's nothing to me. But I'd RATHER do the content, except, it's no longer a challenge, because I know it's just 3 dollars.
There's nothing in game and rl mixed up in P2P.
In P2P your progress is measure by in game hours played, and content completed, and those are the rules, same for everyone.
Again, you have to do 50 quests to reach level 25.
Makes no difference if you do it today, tomorrow, in a week, in a month, in a year.
The only thing that counts is how much in game time your character spends doing those 50 quests.
Your real life schedule has no effect on that.
Whether you can only play for 30 minutes in one month, or whether you can play 20 hours a day, no matter what, you must do 50 quests in the game to reach level 25.
So I really don't understand how you feel your real life schedule affects that.
If you do 25 quests, then quit the game for a year, them come back, you still need to do 25 more quests to make 50 quests to reach level 25.
Again, your real life schedule has no effect on that. You MUST do 50 quests in the game, no matter what your real life schedule is or is not.
And you CANNOT pay 3 dollars to skip it. That makes it fun.
THe reason is it changes the rules of the game. It reduces my time spent doing the content to dollars and cents. I dont' mind that someone else can pay to speed up the game, I mind that I can pay to speed up the game. I COULD kill those mobs and it will take me about 40 hours to make the XP. OR, I could buy an xp potion, and do it in 5 hours. The xp potion costs 3 dollars. Well, now my in game time is reduced to 3 dollars. I have three dollars, but I don't want to play anymore.You ruined all the challenge for me.
Hmm how does time has any relation to challenge?
If you can kill a boar once (let's use a boar with an example), you can kill it 1000 times? Killing it 1000 times is not more challenging than killing it 10 times.
Plus, it does not "change" anything. A F2P game with an item mall .. starts with exactly the same rules ... you can buy an xp portions since the release of the game. Nothing changes.
And you logic is totally screwed up. If you don't mind another person who can speed it up, then you have NO objection to xp potion because you don't have to buy it. You *can* kill all those mobs and enjoy the full 40 hours. Think of it this way, you have two options: A) keep 3 dollars & kill mob for 40 hrs
spend 3 dollars & kill mob for 5 hours. Whichever way you prefer, you can have it.
So you reasoning is really weird. From the way you look at challenge (doing something 1000 times is more challenging than doing it 10 times) to your objection of the OPTION of buying a xp potion, which of course you can decline to buy.
And you CANNOT pay 3 dollars to skip it. That makes it fun.
That is a weird definition of fun. Killing a boss with a nice scripted fight is fun. Doing a well design question is fun. What does the ability to skip it has anything to do with fun?
In WOW, there are MORE quests than necessarily to level up. Thus, you can skip some if you want (without paying money, of course). That fact does not make the quest less fun because i can skip them.
Your logic is just totally weird, and probably not shared by the majority of players.
Yes, I COULD keep the 3 dollars, and kill the mobs for 40 hours.
But I cannot pretend that I dont' have 3 dollars.
I have 3 dollars.
And if the rules of the game let me pay 3 dollars, why wouldn't I pay 3 dollars?
Well, I WOULD, because the rules are the rules.
And now the fun is ruined, because instead of killing mobs for 40 hours, I paid 3 dollars.
IMO, it's the same are arguing that if you want a Perma death server, you can just delete your character whenever you die.
but guess what? That is NOT the same as a perma death server.
Why? Because you can change your mind. You can decide you WON"T delete your character.
There are REAL RULES of a game, and imaginary rules.
I don't play games by the imaginary rules I make up in my head, I play by the REAl RULES coded into the game.
I mean, why not play WoW and pretend it's Star Trek Online, if you're going to make up the rules of the game in your head?
Oh, I'm not shooting a Dragon with an arrow, I'm shooting a Klingon with a phaser.
It's exactly the same to me as pretending I don't have 3 dollars.
I have three dollars.
I can't change that.
BUT, I can play a game where it doesn't matter if I have three dollars or not, because I HAVE to do the quests, or I don't make any progress in the game.
THAT makes it fun. For me. For you, it's different. That's why they make different games.
Hmmm... Thats interesting. I've not heard that. I'll have to check that out. I'd been steering clear of STO because of reports of issues and lack of content. I'll have to see what their shop has available. Thanks.
Yes, I COULD keep the 3 dollars, and kill the mobs for 40 hours.
But I cannot pretend that I dont' have 3 dollars.
I have 3 dollars.
And if the rules of the game let me pay 3 dollars, why wouldn't I pay 3 dollars?
Well, I WOULD, because the rules are the rules.
And now the fun is ruined, because instead of killing mobs for 40 hours, I paid 3 dollars.
IMO, it's the same are arguing that if you want a Perma death server, you can just delete your character whenever you die.
but guess what? That is NOT the same as a perma death server.
Why? Because you can change your mind. You can decide you WON"T delete your character.
There are REAL RULES of a game, and imaginary rules.
I don't play games by the imaginary rules I make up in my head, I play by the REAl RULES coded into the game.
I mean, why not play WoW and pretend it's Star Trek Online, if you're going to make up the rules of the game in your head?
Oh, I'm not shooting a Dragon with an arrow, I'm shooting a Klingon with a phaser.
It's exactly the same to me as pretending I don't have 3 dollars.
I have three dollars.
I can't change that.
BUT, I can play a game where it doesn't matter if I have three dollars or not, because I HAVE to do the quests, or I don't make any progress in the game.
THAT makes it fun. For me. For you, it's different. That's why they make different games.
Sure you have 3 dollars, and you could purchase the XP potion. But you just said that isn't fun for you. So why not simply make the *decision*(your own choice) not to purchase it? That way your fun isn't spoiled, and you can grind mobs for that 40 hours to your hearts content. Its all about choices. Simply because you can do a thing, does not mean that you should do that thing. That being said, why does someone else having the same choices you have(which you have decided not to take) does that do anything to *your* fun?
Yes, I COULD keep the 3 dollars, and kill the mobs for 40 hours.
But I cannot pretend that I dont' have 3 dollars.
I have 3 dollars.
And if the rules of the game let me pay 3 dollars, why wouldn't I pay 3 dollars?
Well, I WOULD, because the rules are the rules.
And now the fun is ruined, because instead of killing mobs for 40 hours, I paid 3 dollars.
IMO, it's the same are arguing that if you want a Perma death server, you can just delete your character whenever you die.
but guess what? That is NOT the same as a perma death server.
Why? Because you can change your mind. You can decide you WON"T delete your character.
There are REAL RULES of a game, and imaginary rules.
I don't play games by the imaginary rules I make up in my head, I play by the REAl RULES coded into the game.
I mean, why not play WoW and pretend it's Star Trek Online, if you're going to make up the rules of the game in your head?
Oh, I'm not shooting a Dragon with an arrow, I'm shooting a Klingon with a phaser.
It's exactly the same to me as pretending I don't have 3 dollars.
I have three dollars.
I can't change that.
BUT, I can play a game where it doesn't matter if I have three dollars or not, because I HAVE to do the quests, or I don't make any progress in the game.
THAT makes it fun. For me. For you, it's different. That's why they make different games.
Sure you have 3 dollars, and you could purchase the XP potion. But you just said that isn't fun for you. So why not simply make the *decision*(your own choice) not to purchase it? That way your fun isn't spoiled, and you can grind mobs for that 40 hours to your hearts content. Its all about choices. Simply because you can do a thing, does not mean that you should do that thing. That being said, why does someone else having the same choices you have(which you have decided not to take) does that do anything to *your* fun?
Why not pretend that you're playing a sci fi game when you play WoW?
Why delete your character when you die and pretend you are playing perma death?
Why not pretend the NPC's are players and that you are playing RvR in all MMORPGs?
The rules are what they are.
I don't make them, the devs make them.
If you like to pretend there are different rules in your games, that's fine.
I don't make up rules in my games that exist only in my head. I play the game with the rules that actually exist.
The rules in a F2P game are you can buy xp potions, then I'm buying them. That's the game.
Again, I didnt' make the rules, the Devs made them.
If the rules say you can buy a maxed out toon at end game, then I'm buying one.
But that wouldn't be a fun game for me, so I wouldnt' play it.
I have no problem if that's a fun game for you.
I am going to take EVERY advantage the game gives me.
Why would I not? Why would I make up rules for a game, when I can just play a game with actual rules and game mechanics I like?
I guess what you dont' get is simply knowing I could buy an xp potion spoils the fun, whether I buy it or not.
I know it's there. How can I pretend I don't know?
And I have 3 dollars. How can I pretend I dont' have 3 dollars?
that means what I'm doing isn't an adventure anymore, it's just 3 dollars.
Yes, I COULD keep the 3 dollars, and kill the mobs for 40 hours.
But I cannot pretend that I dont' have 3 dollars.
I have 3 dollars.
And if the rules of the game let me pay 3 dollars, why wouldn't I pay 3 dollars?
Well, I WOULD, because the rules are the rules.
ROFL .. that is the most screwed up logic I have ever seen. You equate an OPTION in game to what you must do?
The rule says you have a CHOICE. Do you know what that word means?
Just like I have a CHOICE to play a mage and a warrior in wow. Does everyone HAVE to play a mage because the choice is there?
You wouldn't because you don't LIKE that choice. It is that simple. Just like i like MAGE more than WARRIOR so i play a MAGE, NOT a warrior.
Can it be simpler? Geez.
I will make it simple for you. Item malls ruin my fun. Do you think you can argue me into having fun in an item mall game?
Think about this. The Mage and Warrior are balanced, if the game is any good.
It doesn't matter which one I choose, they won't make me get to the level cap any faster.
If one was MUCH, MUCH faster, I would choose that one as it would seem to be the superior class.
There are two weapons, the katana and the two handed sword. I think the two handed sword looks cool, but the katana does double damage.
I could "pretend" like you suggest that the katana doesn't do double the damage, but in reality it does, so I'm picking that as my weapon.
As I said earilier. If you want to pretend that an advantage in the game doesn't exist, so you don't use it, that's fine, go ahead.
But I'm using the rules of the game that exist to my advantage.
And the rules of a F2P game are you can buy your way to the top faster. And I have money, so I'd be grinding mobs and the whole time I'd be thinking, gee, why am I grinding these mobs? I can just pay 3 dollars and skip ahead faster.
And the moment I do that, the game gets easier, and I'm bored.
But if I don't do it, it's to me (I understand you think differently) like I"m intentionally gimping myself. And I'm not going to do that in a game. I'm going to play a game like the Devs intended for it to be played, with all the advantages that exist.
You can pretend the game is anything you want to. I don't mind. I will not pretend the game is anything other than it is.
And in F2P that means game play reduced to dollars.
I don't want dollars, I want a game.
The problem is that the "choices" of RMT are pushed on players by developers intentionally designing that games so that not purchasing RMT makes the game as long, boring, and tedious as possible. In other words, those games are designed to severely limit the enjoyability of the game unless you open up your wallet.
Which many people would rather forgo simply by playing a subscription game where they never need to worry about whether or not their gameplay is suffering because they didn't empty out their wallet.
I will make it simple for you. Item malls ruin my fun. Do you think you can argue me into having fun in an item mall game?
Think about this. The Mage and Warrior are balanced, if the game is any good.
It doesn't matter which one I choose, they won't make me get to the level cap any faster.
If one was MUCH, MUCH faster, I would choose that one as it would seem to be the superior class.
There are two weapons, the katana and the two handed sword. I think the two handed sword looks cool, but the katana does double damage.
I could "pretend" like you suggest that the katana doesn't do double the damage, but in reality it does, so I'm picking that as my weapon.
As I said earilier. If you want to pretend that an advantage in the game doesn't exist, so you don't use it, that's fine, go ahead.
But I'm using the rules of the game that exist to my advantage.
And the rules of a F2P game are you can buy your way to the top faster. And I have money, so I'd be grinding mobs and the whole time I'd be thinking, gee, why am I grinding these mobs? I can just pay 3 dollars and skip ahead faster.
And the moment I do that, the game gets easier, and I'm bored.
But if I don't do it, it's to me (I understand you think differently) like I"m intentionally gimping myself. And I'm not going to do that in a game. I'm going to play a game like the Devs intended for it to be played, with all the advantages that exist.
You can pretend the game is anything you want to. I don't mind. I will not pretend the game is anything other than it is.
And in F2P that means game play reduced to dollars.
I don't want dollars, I want a game.
Simple solution then. Don't play games with item shops. Problem solved. Its obvious that we are looking at this in entirely different fashions, but thats simply human nature. Bottom line, don't play games you don't enjoy.
Nope. Of course not. I just don't think your preference has any logic to it. Just say that you don't like it .. is good enough. People are different .. they like and dislike different things. None of it .. is very logical.
The problem is that the "choices" of RMT are pushed on players by developers intentionally designing that games so that not purchasing RMT makes the game as long, boring, and tedious as possible. In other words, those games are designed to severely limit the enjoyability of the game unless you open up your wallet.
Which many people would rather forgo simply by playing a subscription game where they never need to worry about whether or not their gameplay is suffering because they didn't empty out their wallet.
Both assertions are not true.
The fact that many F2P games have a lot of free riders (people who play but not pay .. in fact, only a small percentage pays) is proof that for these people, the game without purchasing is fun enough to continue playing. If the game is not enjoyable, why would one even play it?
The fact that only a small percentage of people pays show that it is a real choice being exercised everyday.
In fact, my personal experience is that DDO is an enjoyable game, without even paying a dime.
The fact that many of these games have tons of non-paying players (DDO increases their population by a huge amount, RoM & Maple Story have millions of players) show that many people will play F2P games and have fun.
Nope. Of course not. I just don't think your preference has any logic to it. Just say that you don't like it .. is good enough. People are different .. they like and dislike different things. None of it .. is very logical.
I agree. I think your acceptance of RMT is not logical. You think my refusal of RMT is not logical.
So, I could say the same to you. Just say you like RMT, even if it's not logical.
The only thing that's importnat is if you like the game or not.
You like RMT games, I don't.
At the moment they are still making both models for us to play.
Would you rather have steak and potatos or a raw onion?
What if the steak and potatos costs 14.95, and the onion is free?
Many people will take the free onion.
Sure, they like steak and potatos, but they just dont' want to pay.
Why would they play it if it's not very enjoyable? Simple, Because it's free. There are many people who will put up with a lot of hassle or poor quality just to save money. There's a reason why so many people shop at Walmart, and it has nothing to do with high quality or a positive shopping experience. It has nearly everything to do with low prices.
A F2P game having a huge portion of it's playerbase completely content not paying for the game, actually speaks more to the fact that the game simply isn't worth spending money on. Is this statement hypocritical? Not really. The entire F2P system however, can be considered hypocritical. They want as many people playing as possible, which they achieve by making it "free" to play, but at the same time they want to get their subscribers to pay as much as possible.
There are a lot of people who want something for free, so they play F2P games and disregard item malls. There are others that want to be able to pay their way to the top so they enjoy item malls. And then, there are people who don't mind paying a subscription to play a decent MMO, but dislike item malls.
The first two lump together well because the F2P players put up with a lot of inconveniences, simply because it's free, so Item Malls don't bother them. The last group however, prefers to stick to it's model, and only it's model. That is why I continue to suggest that Item malls stay exclusive to F2P games, and out of P2P.
Nope. Of course not. I just don't think your preference has any logic to it. Just say that you don't like it .. is good enough. People are different .. they like and dislike different things. None of it .. is very logical.
I agree. I think your acceptance of RMT is not logical. You think my refusal of RMT is not logical.
So, I could say the same to you. Just say you like RMT, even if it's not logical.
The only thing that's importnat is if you like the game or not.
You like RMT games, I don't.
At the moment they are still making both models for us to play.
No I didn't say I like RMT games. I said I will play a fun game and the payment option is not a factor of the fun. There is a difference.
Once again, your logic fails.
Why would they play it if it's not very enjoyable? Simple, Because it's free. There are many people who will put up with a lot of hassle or poor quality just to save money. There's a reason why so many people shop at Walmart, and it has nothing to do with high quality or a positive shopping experience. It has nearly everything to do with low prices.
A F2P game having a huge portion of it's playerbase completely content not paying for the game, actually speaks more to the fact that the game simply isn't worth spending money on. Is this statement hypocritical? Not really. The entire F2P system however, can be considered hypocritical. They want as many people playing as possible, which they achieve by making it "free" to play, but at the same time they want to get their subscribers to pay as much as possible.
There are a lot of people who want something for free, so they play F2P games and disregard item malls. There are others that want to be able to pay their way to the top so they enjoy item malls. And then, there are people who don't mind paying a subscription to play a decent MMO, but dislike item malls.
The first two lump together well because the F2P players put up with a lot of inconveniences, simply because it's free, so Item Malls don't bother them. The last group however, prefers to stick to it's model, and only it's model. That is why I continue to suggest that Item malls stay exclusive to F2P games, and out of P2P.
Hmm .. it is fun ENOUGH if they play it. I don't see them go read shakespear. That is totally free too.
The OPERATING WORD is fun ENOUGH. The adjective "very" is subjective anyway. Only action matters and the action of these players tell me that they consider F2P games enjoyable ENOUGH to spend their time on it.
In fact, there are millions of them.
Would you rather have steak and potatos or a raw onion?
What if the steak and potatos costs 14.95, and the onion is free?
Many people will take the free onion.
Sure, they like steak and potatos, but they just dont' want to pay.
So? They still like the onion ENOUGH to take it. If they hate onions (and assuming they can sell it .. just like a MMO), they won't even bother to pick it up. Sure they like steaks & potatoes better .. does not mean that they don't like the onion a little.
Would you rather have steak and potatos or a raw onion?
What if the steak and potatos costs 14.95, and the onion is free?
Many people will take the free onion.
Sure, they like steak and potatos, but they just dont' want to pay.
So? They still like the onion ENOUGH to take it. If they hate onions (and assuming they can sell it .. just like a MMO), they won't even bother to pick it up. Sure they like steaks & potatoes better .. does not mean that they don't like the onion a little.
I agree. For people that dont' have money, a raw onion, or a F2P game without buying items in the cash shop, is just fine.
Why would they play it if it's not very enjoyable? Simple, Because it's free. There are many people who will put up with a lot of hassle or poor quality just to save money. There's a reason why so many people shop at Walmart, and it has nothing to do with high quality or a positive shopping experience. It has nearly everything to do with low prices.
A F2P game having a huge portion of it's playerbase completely content not paying for the game, actually speaks more to the fact that the game simply isn't worth spending money on. Is this statement hypocritical? Not really. The entire F2P system however, can be considered hypocritical. They want as many people playing as possible, which they achieve by making it "free" to play, but at the same time they want to get their subscribers to pay as much as possible.
There are a lot of people who want something for free, so they play F2P games and disregard item malls. There are others that want to be able to pay their way to the top so they enjoy item malls. And then, there are people who don't mind paying a subscription to play a decent MMO, but dislike item malls.
The first two lump together well because the F2P players put up with a lot of inconveniences, simply because it's free, so Item Malls don't bother them. The last group however, prefers to stick to it's model, and only it's model. That is why I continue to suggest that Item malls stay exclusive to F2P games, and out of P2P.
Hmm .. it is fun ENOUGH if they play it. I don't see them go read shakespear. That is totally free too.
The OPERATING WORD is fun ENOUGH. The adjective "very" is subjective anyway. Only action matters and the action of these players tell me that they consider F2P games enjoyable ENOUGH to spend their time on it.
In fact, there are millions of them.
Playing a F2P MMO while avoiding using the item malls is fun enough for people who value free gameplay over quality gameplay.
For people who want quality gameplay without having to deal with item malls, F2P doesn't work.
Hence once again, leave item malls to F2P where the people who want to play for free or have item malls will play them, and out of subscription based games where the majority of people don't want them. Most people who want item malls are already playing games with them, and those who do not want them are paying subscription games that do not have them. Mixing Item malls with subscription based games only ends up driving people away in frustration. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp.