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World Size
Astralglide
Member UncommonPosts: 686
This came to me as I was reading a very thoughtful post on the world size in STO
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3375026#3375026
The question that I would post would be what is a proper world size and how would you rate it? For instance, I thought WoW was a little on the small size until a) I played WAR and b) until WOTLK came out. For that matter, WAR could have done a lot more with their space than they did and I would argue that the amount of instanced content would increase the overall world size, just not on the map.
For that matter, one could argue that DDO is tiny, although most of the game takes place in instances- again, increasing the effective size of the game world. Or there is also Ryzom, which allows users to create their own content, giving the game an effective "infinite" size to its world. For that matter, EVE Online takes place in space and could easily be expanded without too much effort.
Then there's size of the world vs. how well the space is used. I would argue that WoW has improved drastically in this area; creating more content than can realizticall be explored by one toon (unless you like doing grey quests). Whereas LOTRO (I haven't played any of the expansions, just the original) was large and very beautifully designed, but I felt didn't use it's space effectively and could have easily put more content into the world that the developers started with. WAR was not only very small, but used its space very inefficiently.
Currently I'm raiding in WoW, but playing the shit out of Fallen Earth, where I'm hesitant to make a judgement yet. So far there is a very large world and great content (I have yet to run out of things to do) but it seems a little empty. However, the game is so crafter/gatherer reliant that there needs to be plenty of space for gathering to occur.
I guess the point of this thread is to get an idea from other players as to what a good size game world is, and if game developers need to cram as much content into the world as they can, or should there really be vast areas of "nothing"? Is there a game that you feel has a good mix or is there an extreem that you prefer?
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
Comments
World size isn't unimportant, but it's certainly less important than the core features of a game and what types of content exist in the world. The value of world size also varies dependant on the way gameplay works.
But I'm a gameplay-focused guy. I want my time in a game to be spent playing the game, and sort of consider it to be the game playing me if excessive travel time is involved.
But again, it's gameplay-dependant. Darkfall would be terrible without a large world. Other games are terrible with a large world, if they don't have content to fill it. World size increases travel time, which is almost invariably devoid of interesting gameplay. It often makes it harder to group up with people and do things together, which reduces one of the strengths of MMO gaming.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Size matters
Im a Explorer. I want Supper massive worlds with lots of things to see. Nothing I hate more than finding a area that got no Love in a large MMO. Almost worse are MMO"RPGs" with a small worlds.
If I could play Vanguard for free and just walk around I would. Same for lots of Other MMO's.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Wait, what do you mean by "finding an area that got no love"? Does that mean finding areas that were poorly constructed or have limited content? Wouldn't that mean you don't want super massive, since you want the content you explore to be of decent quality? ...that necessitates keeping the size reasonable.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Wait, what do you mean by "finding an area that got no love"? Does that mean finding areas that were poorly constructed or have limited content? Wouldn't that mean you don't want super massive, since you want the content you explore to be of decent quality? ...that necessitates keeping the size reasonable.
Lol close.
Im talking about areas that clearly had alot of thought going into it, then for what ever reason the persons working on it stoped...
Coulda worded that better... but im working on no sleep for 23 hours so far...
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Wait, what do you mean by "finding an area that got no love"? Does that mean finding areas that were poorly constructed or have limited content? Wouldn't that mean you don't want super massive, since you want the content you explore to be of decent quality? ...that necessitates keeping the size reasonable.
Lol close.
Im talking about areas that clearly had alot of thought going into it, then for what ever reason the persons working on it stoped...
Coulda worded that better... but im working on no sleep for 23 hours so far...
Like "Desolace" in WoW? A zone where there is so little to do and almost no reason to visit?
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
Azshara. Worst .. Zone .. EVAR.
With world size, I think it comes down to a clear choice .. you can have a huge world, or you can have an awesome world. You ain't gonna get a game that is both huge and awesome while still being fun to play. The best to hope for is a huge world with lots of (quickly traversable) barren, uninteresting terrain between small areas of awesome; like Oblivion and Fallout 3.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
In EvE each system [there are thousands of them] is HUGE and if you were to move from one point in the system to find its 'edge' it could take in real time thousands of years. This however exposes the main problem with such huge systems, primarely being that space in EvE [just like in real life] is empty.
The best way to fix this is to do what the devs in eve finnally did [ took them a while] was create randomly generated content dotted throughout the vast systems [things like the odd asteroid to a full blown pirate base], then they made them randomly re-spawn after severall hours at a new locationsystem with different content [as an example the pirate base could one day be a huge station with a high value fleet one day and the next be a hollowed out asteroid with a few basic frigates].
Another thing that makes a big empty world work is to support a 'Explorer' proffesion. In EvE this is done by making these random locations very hard to find without the Explorers main tools such as scan probes. As an example i sometimes like to explore and sometimes i find a very interesting location for me and my online buddies to exploit. Sometimes tho i find something thats too big for us so i sell its location to those that can [such as a decent Wormhole]. Which is one way of earning game cash.
So yea big empty worlds can work but do need stuff like this to be interesting.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Azshara. Worst .. Zone .. EVAR.
With world size, I think it comes down to a clear choice .. you can have a huge world, or you can have an awesome world. You ain't gonna get a game that is both huge and awesome while still being fun to play. The best to hope for is a huge world with lots of (quickly traversable) barren, uninteresting terrain between small areas of awesome; like Oblivion and Fallout 3.
I really love Fallout 3 and this is one of the primary reasons why
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981