I just wanted to point out how completely idiotic it is to even think these boxes are illegal, or as stated earlier, morally questionable. um, dont we play EVERY game to win or lose? Modern Warfare 2 could be illegal then because you don't know the odds of winning the match. or WoW, you don't know the drop rates of gear, without outside help from sites or unoffical add-ons from creators other than the people who made the game. Morally questionable? should you even be playing ANY game if you think this? most certainly not. It's a freaking box. get over it
there are lawyers specifically for the internet cases or they are really accesible through the net? hahha! sorry for the ignorance here guys. never thought that cyber crime would be that too big of a deal to have internet lawyers made. hahha!
Originally posted by ryanrem "The act or practice of gambling; an agreement between two or more individuals to play collectively at a game of chance for a stake or wager, which will become the property of the winner and to which all involved make a contribution."
this.
you don't (and never will) own anything on AO. since you already know that (signed the EULA), you are aware that anything you "buy" will never "become your property".
Does the fact that you don't actually OWN your character/items change anything?
Not necessarily.
SOE found this out when they launched their trading card games (SWG, LoN, etc.). It not only matters what the Federal law is, but also individual State laws. That's why there are 8 or so states in the U.S. where SOE cannot accept players for the card games.
However, in SOE's case, it is because you are paying real money for card packs in the hope of getting a "good" item. this is considered gambling by those states.
In the case of a game having a "lotto box" or whatever that is earned solely ingame ( using ingame gold/credits/etc. ) with no actual real money being spent, there would be no illegality.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Americans, always have to sue for everything, wtf is up with that?
Im so glad i dont live in the USA.
On behalf of Americans, we're glad you don't live here also.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Originally posted by Proson Americans, always have to sue for everything, wtf is up with that?
Im so glad i dont live in the USA.
Their system is probably designed in a way that is easy and substantially inexpensive suing anyone for any reason, so they'd easily sue Panasonic 'cause a TV fell on their feet and there wasn't a "WARNING! This object obeys to the laws of physics, including gravitation" in the manual (and even if there was, they'd still sue Panasonic because "newtonian physics is against the Bible and we are not bound to know or understand it"... chances are they'd even win!)
They have no need to worry. It is legal to gamble for non monetary stuff. There are game rooms all over the US in which the prizes are ticket which can be redeemed for stuffed animals and the like. There are carnival games the examples are endless. This is just another example of a silly post by someone who is a busybody that knows nothing but likes to pose as someone who does.
Americans, always have to sue for everything, wtf is up with that?
Im so glad i dont live in the USA.
Their system is probably designed in a way that is easy and substantially inexpensive suing anyone for any reason, so they'd easily sue Panasonic 'cause a TV fell on their feet and there wasn't a "WARNING! This object obeys to the laws of physics, including gravitation" in the manual (and even if there was, they'd still sue Panasonic because "newtonian physics is against the Bible and we are not bound to know or understand it"... chances are they'd even win!)
This post is worse than the OP. Another ignorant idiot...sigh they seem to be everywhere these days.
BTW where is newtonian physics against the bible? and which bible are you refering to? the Christian bible, the Jewish bible? or some other bible?
[quote]Originally posted by Maelkor This post is worse than the OP. Another ignorant idiot...sigh they seem to be everywhere these days. BTW where is newtonian physics against the bible? and which bible are you refering to? the Christian bible, the Jewish bible? or some other bible? [/b][/quote]
"In September 1988, two Akron, Ohio-based carpet layers named Gordon Falker and Gregory Roach were severely burned when a three and a half gallon container of carpet adhesive ignited when the hot water heater it was sitting next to kicked on. Both men felt the warning label on the back of the can was insufficient. Words like flammable and keep away from heat didnt prepare them for the explosion. They filed suit against the adhesive manufacturers, Para-Chem. A jury obviously agreed since the men were awarded $8 million for their troubles."
If you can win something like this, you can win everything in Europe, any judge seeing this kind of lawsuit would just laugh at it and tear up the papers...
Do all of these boxes contain something or is there a chance of them being totally empty?
If all boxes are guaranteed to hold something then you are not gambling, you are buying an unknown item.
Gambling involves a chance to 'lose'.
The boxes are labeled with something like "randomly obtain one of 19 items", and it gives a list of the items you might obtain. So you are guaranteed to get something from the box. They even name the box with the name of the common item that might be in the box from the looks of it, so at least they don't name the box with the rare item that people are chasing. Pretty clever way to avoid false advertising claims.
OP's confused. They've been doing this in MMo's for years (way before atlantica online), no reason for them to stop now - even if its supposedly illegal
The game is good actually. It has a unique party & battle system and even has some sort of storyline to follow throughout the game,,,, most other f2p games i tried dont have that sort of thing.
BUT IMO, even if the boxes are named and such, the ITEM MALL specifically IN THIS GAME, is indeed either gambling, or very reminescent to it to a dangerous level.
When i was playing AO, i was totally loving it, and decided to get a cool mount like some other kids in the block. I Spent more than 100 US dollars on those ''suprise boxes'' like crazy! And guess what?= NO MOUNT for me at all! ,,, my gambling high kicked in and I bought some more boxes AND STILL no goddamn mounts! haha, serves me right, I guess... for spending my cash on stuff like that.. I was INSTEAD left with lots of garbage ''premium'' stuff that I tried to sell ingame, but nobody wanted em to trade or buy (yes seriously).
That day I relearned a very valuable lesson; don't spend your money on gambling, EVEN IF ITS GAMBLING DISGUISED AS AN ONLINE ROLEPLAYING GAME.....
Now to me, this was no big deal, since the money I lost was MY money, AND was rather easily replaceable..
ALAS if it is a kid that we'r talking about, than its different, IMO. One of my friends younger brother (15) yrs old was playing this game too, gpt a hold of his parents credit card for a little while and eventually emptied a small portion of it on Atlantica Online. (Meh, like 50-100 dollars)....
IMO it was the parents fault first, but still they were furious with the kid, and the worst part is, he had NOT won any prizes he wanted at all:D ,,, join the club, kiddo!:p
TO SUMMARISE:
A gem of a game on its own right, but the ITEM MALL system DIFFERS from the MOST OTHER F2P GAMES, in that gambling is actually involved, AND YOU ARE NOT GUARANTEED YOUR MONEYS WORTH on some more prestigious items (Like mounts and Wings) no matter how much you spend on them.
And recent patches have made it harder to compete or level on higher levels without using the item mall.
SO my recommendation is: ENJOY THE GAME as much as you can without delving into the item mall, and you are good to go,,, but beware the cash shop for your own good!
I just wanted to point out how completely idiotic it is to even think these boxes are illegal, or as stated earlier, morally questionable. um, dont we play EVERY game to win or lose? Modern Warfare 2 could be illegal then because you don't know the odds of winning the match. or WoW, you don't know the drop rates of gear, without outside help from sites or unoffical add-ons from creators other than the people who made the game. Morally questionable? should you even be playing ANY game if you think this? most certainly not. It's a freaking box. get over it
You just troll in your ignorance and obviosly you have no idea what this topic is about. I didn't knew "YOU LOOSE REAL MONEY" with any round loss in MW2... Actualy YOU LOOSE NONE WITH MW2 - you just pay the game once and "play for fun" - it's not like another player payed REAL MONEY for a "BONUS" box that can give him a rare weapon or none...
This topic is about Apples and you talk about Rocks - and say it's the same thing cause you ate rocks and taste just like Apples and anyone should try it.
NO - it's not about that, it's about IN GAME Bonuses from ITEM SHOP which cost real money, but the drops are gamble related.... Some kids could end up stealing REAL MONEY (the ones "some people work for - in real life), from their parents to gamble this items. As most adults know - GAMBLING can cause addiction and it's ilegal for Kids to gamble... Since kids are more succetable to adictions like "GAMBLING" - and also being kids, have an imature way of thinking (even some adults are in same position) - kinda like you quote above where in your opinion gambling real money on an Item Mall from a MMORPG and wining or lossing in FPS game is the same thing.
--------------------
1 years has passed since I quit this game, for the exat same reason mentioned in topic and I see nothing changed or ever will (i guess). I spent about 150 $ on this boxes, but that's not the reason I quited this game, but the fact that it became real boring from lvl 97 - 119... Before quiting, end up playing only once a weak in Titan Competition - and that point skill wasn't important anymore, just luck and the extra items (back then Shotguns were overwhelming).
But can't say I'm sory was fun wile it lasted and the money spent where equal to a subscrition fee, so I could say i played this game as P2P. :P Yet, every major clan had 1 or 2 (if not more) players that spent more then 1000$ on those boxes... You know who I'm talking about... the tanks for lvl 100+ dungeons... the top then for Titan matches.
Comments
I just wanted to point out how completely idiotic it is to even think these boxes are illegal, or as stated earlier, morally questionable. um, dont we play EVERY game to win or lose? Modern Warfare 2 could be illegal then because you don't know the odds of winning the match. or WoW, you don't know the drop rates of gear, without outside help from sites or unoffical add-ons from creators other than the people who made the game. Morally questionable? should you even be playing ANY game if you think this? most certainly not. It's a freaking box. get over it
there are lawyers specifically for the internet cases or they are really accesible through the net? hahha! sorry for the ignorance here guys. never thought that cyber crime would be that too big of a deal to have internet lawyers made. hahha!
this.
you don't (and never will) own anything on AO. since you already know that (signed the EULA), you are aware that anything you "buy" will never "become your property".
Not necessarily.
SOE found this out when they launched their trading card games (SWG, LoN, etc.). It not only matters what the Federal law is, but also individual State laws. That's why there are 8 or so states in the U.S. where SOE cannot accept players for the card games.
However, in SOE's case, it is because you are paying real money for card packs in the hope of getting a "good" item. this is considered gambling by those states.
In the case of a game having a "lotto box" or whatever that is earned solely ingame ( using ingame gold/credits/etc. ) with no actual real money being spent, there would be no illegality.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Americans, always have to sue for everything, wtf is up with that?
Im so glad i dont live in the USA.
Currently Playing Path of Exile
On behalf of Americans, we're glad you don't live here also.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Their system is probably designed in a way that is easy and substantially inexpensive suing anyone for any reason, so they'd easily sue Panasonic 'cause a TV fell on their feet and there wasn't a "WARNING! This object obeys to the laws of physics, including gravitation" in the manual (and even if there was, they'd still sue Panasonic because "newtonian physics is against the Bible and we are not bound to know or understand it"... chances are they'd even win!)
They have no need to worry. It is legal to gamble for non monetary stuff. There are game rooms all over the US in which the prizes are ticket which can be redeemed for stuffed animals and the like. There are carnival games the examples are endless. This is just another example of a silly post by someone who is a busybody that knows nothing but likes to pose as someone who does.
This post is worse than the OP. Another ignorant idiot...sigh they seem to be everywhere these days.
BTW where is newtonian physics against the bible? and which bible are you refering to? the Christian bible, the Jewish bible? or some other bible?
Do all of these boxes contain something or is there a chance of them being totally empty?
If all boxes are guaranteed to hold something then you are not gambling, you are buying an unknown item.
Gambling involves a chance to 'lose'.
[quote]Originally posted by Maelkor
This post is worse than the OP. Another ignorant idiot...sigh they seem to be everywhere these days.
BTW where is newtonian physics against the bible? and which bible are you refering to? the Christian bible, the Jewish bible? or some other bible?
[/b][/quote]
"In September 1988, two Akron, Ohio-based carpet layers named Gordon Falker and Gregory Roach were severely burned when a three and a half gallon container of carpet adhesive ignited when the hot water heater it was sitting next to kicked on. Both men felt the warning label on the back of the can was insufficient. Words like flammable and keep away from heat didnt prepare them for the explosion. They filed suit against the adhesive manufacturers, Para-Chem. A jury obviously agreed since the men were awarded $8 million for their troubles."
http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/docs/pdf/9/2003/2003-Ohio-3155.pdf
If you can win something like this, you can win everything
The boxes are labeled with something like "randomly obtain one of 19 items", and it gives a list of the items you might obtain. So you are guaranteed to get something from the box. They even name the box with the name of the common item that might be in the box from the looks of it, so at least they don't name the box with the rare item that people are chasing. Pretty clever way to avoid false advertising claims.
OP's confused. They've been doing this in MMo's for years (way before atlantica online), no reason for them to stop now - even if its supposedly illegal
The game is good actually. It has a unique party & battle system and even has some sort of storyline to follow throughout the game,,,, most other f2p games i tried dont have that sort of thing.
BUT IMO, even if the boxes are named and such, the ITEM MALL specifically IN THIS GAME, is indeed either gambling, or very reminescent to it to a dangerous level.
When i was playing AO, i was totally loving it, and decided to get a cool mount like some other kids in the block. I Spent more than 100 US dollars on those ''suprise boxes'' like crazy! And guess what?= NO MOUNT for me at all! ,,, my gambling high kicked in and I bought some more boxes AND STILL no goddamn mounts!
haha, serves me right, I guess... for spending my cash on stuff like that.. I was INSTEAD left with lots of garbage ''premium'' stuff that I tried to sell ingame, but nobody wanted em to trade or buy (yes seriously).
That day I relearned a very valuable lesson; don't spend your money on gambling, EVEN IF ITS GAMBLING DISGUISED AS AN ONLINE ROLEPLAYING GAME.....
Now to me, this was no big deal, since the money I lost was MY money, AND was rather easily replaceable..
ALAS if it is a kid that we'r talking about, than its different, IMO. One of my friends younger brother (15) yrs old was playing this game too, gpt a hold of his parents credit card for a little while and eventually emptied a small portion of it on Atlantica Online. (Meh, like 50-100 dollars)....
IMO it was the parents fault first, but still they were furious with the kid, and the worst part is, he had NOT won any prizes he wanted at all:D ,,, join the club, kiddo!:p
TO SUMMARISE:
A gem of a game on its own right, but the ITEM MALL system DIFFERS from the MOST OTHER F2P GAMES, in that gambling is actually involved, AND YOU ARE NOT GUARANTEED YOUR MONEYS WORTH on some more prestigious items (Like mounts and Wings) no matter how much you spend on them.
And recent patches have made it harder to compete or level on higher levels without using the item mall.
SO my recommendation is: ENJOY THE GAME as much as you can without delving into the item mall, and you are good to go,,, but beware the cash shop for your own good!
Cheers.
You just troll in your ignorance and obviosly you have no idea what this topic is about. I didn't knew "YOU LOOSE REAL MONEY" with any round loss in MW2... Actualy YOU LOOSE NONE WITH MW2 - you just pay the game once and "play for fun" - it's not like another player payed REAL MONEY for a "BONUS" box that can give him a rare weapon or none...
This topic is about Apples and you talk about Rocks - and say it's the same thing cause you ate rocks and taste just like Apples and anyone should try it.
NO - it's not about that, it's about IN GAME Bonuses from ITEM SHOP which cost real money, but the drops are gamble related.... Some kids could end up stealing REAL MONEY (the ones "some people work for - in real life), from their parents to gamble this items. As most adults know - GAMBLING can cause addiction and it's ilegal for Kids to gamble... Since kids are more succetable to adictions like "GAMBLING" - and also being kids, have an imature way of thinking (even some adults are in same position) - kinda like you quote above where in your opinion gambling real money on an Item Mall from a MMORPG and wining or lossing in FPS game is the same thing.
--------------------
1 years has passed since I quit this game, for the exat same reason mentioned in topic and I see nothing changed or ever will (i guess). I spent about 150 $ on this boxes, but that's not the reason I quited this game, but the fact that it became real boring from lvl 97 - 119... Before quiting, end up playing only once a weak in Titan Competition - and that point skill wasn't important anymore, just luck and the extra items (back then Shotguns were overwhelming).
But can't say I'm sory was fun wile it lasted and the money spent where equal to a subscrition fee, so I could say i played this game as P2P. :P Yet, every major clan had 1 or 2 (if not more) players that spent more then 1000$ on those boxes... You know who I'm talking about... the tanks for lvl 100+ dungeons... the top then for Titan matches.