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What can be done to close the great divide?
just1opinion
Member UncommonPosts: 4,641
With all the topics on here lately that show a HUGE divide amongst the gaming populace, this thread title could refer to a lot of different "divides," but the one I'm interested in is the veteran / newbie divide that exists in individual games.
After reading a LOT of threads today that all had a similar topic really underlying them, it made me wonder about this kind of a problem we're having, pretty much with EVERY MMO in existence.
What can be done to draw NEW players into an MMO that is, let's say, 2-3 years old or older? We all know that once an MMO has been out for that length of time, if it achieves any amount of success (in other words, the devs keep it going because it IS financially supporting itself).....within that amount of time, all of the original players of that MMO are now "max level" with their first character.
Aside from those original players rolling "alts" (more on the topic of alts later) and those being in the lower level areas again....the game generally appears really top heavy and somewhat inaccesible to new players. Oh sure...some people sign up with friends and family to play as new players in these games and THAT takes care of the "problem" a bit for those people, but...what about the individual who comes to an MMO alone and creates a character in these later stages of a games development? Because see...I think those are the people that are often bouncing in and out of games, often unable to get a "foothold" on any one particular game.
Getting rid of levels themselves might be beneficial in this matter, but for an MMORPG, one still needs some form of progression and sense of "growing up" in the game world and moving on to greater "feats of heroism." This is the "RPG" part of the MMO. So what can be done to connect the higher level players and higher level world to the lower level players and lower level zones?
There are some things that bring people back into these areas...
Brokers /auction houses and class trainers and research assistants (etc...depending on your game) being only in the main towns that are accessible to newer playres.
Events and holidays that are centered around these same areas.
Completely restructuring the older zones (ala Cataclysm), although...we have yet to see for sure how or whether that draws "fresh meat" to the table.
Mentoring systems (ala EQ2) where veteran players are actually rewarded for helping newer players.
Or....
what? What else can be done?
What are things that could re-connect the veteran players of a game to the newer players? Oh...and why do so many veteran players of games essentially shun new players? It seems counter-intuitive to game preservation, which you would THINK would be of a concern to veteran players who obviously enjoy their present game. And yet in some games....."newbs," are often talked down to, put down mercilessly for asking questions, denied any help, and often even lied to when they ask for help, just to further the depth of the chasm between the vets and new players. Why is that? Do some people see that as some sort of initiation fee that must be paid? And...the original players of the game....they didn't have to deal with that because everyone was new TOGETHER...so why do some of those same people feel a need to humiliate and treat new players badly?
I know...a lot of questions. But I'm just curious as to what everyone thinks about this "level gap" and if there is anything that can be done to thwart the negative things about it. I'm pretty sure that even taking levels OUT of games....won't work. People will find some other way to "exalt themselves" over the "newbs." Is it an unstoppable force of human nature....OR.....is there something that can be done that would be rewarding to both veteran players and new players alike that would close this chasm and make communities more cohesive in games?
I think EQ2's mentoring system is a step in the right direction, but....I'm sure there are other possibilities. I was just wondering what you guys though about it?
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Comments
Here are my ideas:
1. Adding new races and classes to the game. Not only is it fun to have more choices, but vet players make new characters, which adds to the number of people at lower levels to play and group with.
2. Focus incoming new players onto a single server as much as possible. That way they find each other easier and can play together.
3. Reverse mentoring systems, where a level 80 joins with a level 20, and the level 80 fights at level 20 power. Then give the level 80s rewards of some kind for doing this.
4. Have in game events for lower level players, where vets will want to dust off their alts and join in.
5. In well entrenched games, make all but the last 20 levels free to play. Not cheesy, deceptive free to play but really free to play.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I think the recent changes in City of Heroes are a step in the right direction. Essentially, a lowbie can team with a high level char on a high level mission and contribute, gain exp and loot, etc. Also, the reverse is true.
I enjoyed the way Asheron's Call did it. You swore to a patron and you became their vassal. You in turn had vassals eventually. As a patron you were responsible for helping them learn and grow. It was beneficial for you to do so because you got a percentage of xp from their progress. Everyone won. It was simple and very effective. Everyone in a monarchy(guild) helped eachother because everyone benefitted. We were all connected.
Very good topic.
I'm going to say though that nothing can be done, that it is an inevitable gap that is rarely crossed and only by particular people. It is a bit like the gap between a starting first year student and a 2nd year student at Uni. It is "only" a year difference, but the most natural thing is for the first years to bond with each other.
So I think the idea of funneling new players into the same server, especially if they join without friends or family to meet up with, is a smart idea. I tried to think of a way to "formalise" this more but encouraging new players to join the same server is about as far as you can go.
I've just joined DDO as a newb and really feeling the gap, but I honestly don't want to have anything to do with the veterans. They know it all. The things that make me ooh and aah are ho hum for them, and grouping with them is horrid because they are (typically) so jaded or condescending. So I'm doing my best to seek out other new players, and DDO has quite a few of them. What is difficult is to find new players that have a similar thirst for working things out for themselves. When a game just starts then nobody really knows what they are doing and they *have* to work things out largely for themselves.
One thing devs can do is keep the lower game fresh.
Expansions dont have to just focus on expanding the late game content. Revamping low level zones can add more replay value for older players as well as giving new players people to group with. Waiting to add a new race/class is fine and all, but that usually happens every so many expansions.
Also revamping lower level content can make a world feel like it has some life, like time does pass and choices made can have an impact. Say the higher level players defeat the biggest/badest boss mob in the game... By them defeating this encounter they set off a chain of events that altered the world (maybe drastically, maybe not so much...).
Thing is, as a game ages the earlier zones become too familiar which tends to make them something people would rather skip than replay again and again. This can hurt newer players who enter a game and see nothing but empty zones.
Devs just need to work on these lower level areas as well when they add higher level content. Sadly the easier solution is making the early game easier and faster which doesnt really solve the problem.
So basically every expansion or content push should offer something new to the lower game as well as the end game. Keep these low levels feeling fresh and new to the vet players who, lets face it, mostly roll alts to break the tedium of the end game dance. Doing this will also benefit new players, allowing them to have more people to play with who would be having fun as well as teaching these new players the basics of the game.
Half the fun of an MMO is the journey. But once that journey becomes redundant and you have traveled it many times, you often try to find a quicker way just to avoid it. Keep the journey fresh and the players will happily make the trip again.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I would like a "reincarnation" system.
So, you reach cap but you love your character. Why don't you go to the local temple and get reincarnated as a level 1? Basically, you get to go back to the character creation screen, all your items and gold is stashed away and you create a "new" character out of your old one.
Since it's your second life, it takes twice as many XP to go from one level to the next. However, when you reach cap, you gain the benefits of both classes. Stack some things together, like HPs. Use some skills as the best of the two (like wizard+fighter=two handed swords) and some use the worst (wizard+fighter=cloth).
For each reincarnation use 2^X so the third would be 4x, 4th 8x, etc ...
Now, you've got veterans who are desperatly trying to get back to cap for the third time so they can have the most awesome fighter/cleric/theif (or whatever combo), but they literally have to spend four times as long as they did the first time. That means they'll be going through the same content with new people all the time.
And if the devs decided to be real jerks, they'd use the number of "lives" a person has gone through to determine group split. The purpose of that being if more than 25% of a group is going through a second time, then the 2nd time people get XP penalties. For every two, or three, new people in their group, it reduces the XP penalty.
Example:
You're going through a third time. You are grouped with three new people, showing them the ropes. According to the penalty, for every 1000xp, you earn 250 (1/4). But since there are three new "lives" in your group, you actually get 750xp (3/4).
The numbers are obvioulsy just an example and would need to be tweeked. But it'd go back and play through a few times.
Sidekick/Examplar systems which let high-levels group with low-levels (and vice-versa). This is a big one for reasons apart from "the great divide", since it means friends can actually play with each other (in a game whose success relies on social interaction? Pfft, get outta here!)
Shrink the divide. Just outright shrink it. WOW used to take probably 3-4 times longer to go from New Char to Max. Gearing to raid-worthiness is constantly shrinking as well -- as they increase the divide, they shrink it by giving better rewards for the earlier content. This is a lot more logical than allowing the game to grow an impossibly large gap between New Char and Raid-Worthy Char.
The restructuring of Cataclysm zones doesn't sound like it'll be anything but a one-time influx of population. I imagine the majority of 85s will still be doing content in the "level 85 phase" of the zones across the old world. Sure, many will create alts to experience all the new lowbie content, but once they've done it it's gonna be pretty much over whereas the level 85 content is where there'll be a churn and where the majority of new post-cata content will be added.
It's also important to note "the divide" doesn't matter as much as "is the game fun?" As long as a game is fun, a player's going to ignore whatever divide exists and simply play it.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Um, some people actually like the journey of leveling and don't care about end-game/raiding. >.>
To answer the OP's question: FFXI's sub-job/multiple class system. FFXI's lower level zones are by far the most populated I've seen of any MMo.
There are many options a developer can implement to make a game newb-friendly, but it's up to the players if they want to help out and bridge that gap. Half of players on MMOs don't have the time or patience to help out newcomers. It's all ME ME ME personality that makes the gap wider and alienates the newcomers.
Atlantica Online developed a system where mentoring and providing items/gold to newcomers and get rewarded for their deeds was the best step in the right direction. Having healthy, fun-oriented guilds that aren't full of elitists is a player-made approach to the problem.
Lastly, developers need to not concentrate so much on end-game content, or double their tasks in adding both end-game and low-mid level content to appease both sides. Most MMOs need a better tutorial on a lot of elements of their game rather than having newbies read off a tutorial section. Some players learn by actively engaging in tutorials. Sometimes a newbie likes to see that a staff member of the game comes in and talks with them, holds little events and meetings to address concerns or issues. Lately, the publishers and developers have hidden themselves away and cannot be bothered to do such tasks. (And that's kinda sad).
I believe that the GMs leave it up to the player base to support their own communities rather than letting a divine intervention govern both sides. If you want to be the helper that bridges the veteran-newbie gap, then enact some way to accomplish that. Form a help guild, start a newbie chat, hold get togethers so that vets and newbies are in the same area, etc. If everyone did this, MMOs would have a better atmosphere.
Well the fact that WOW endgame converts to an entirely differnet type of gameplay is a separate issue. I agree that it's not a great system -- the raiders might not want to solo, and the soloers might not want to raid. But the idea of shrinking the divide is necessary for those who do want to participate in the group-focused activities (group activities require that players be of vaguely similar progression; well...unless the game has sidekicking/examplaring, which all games should but mysteriously don't.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I don't necessarily know that it's a good idea to allow the high-level and low-level characters to interact as it just makes it easier and faster for the low-levels go level up absurdly quickly.
On Anarchy Online, for example, there's a common practice where a relatively low-level group will get together, find a friend with a maxed-character who will go attract all the mobs in the area, then stand there and allow everyone to attack him while the low-level group will pick off the mobs from the fringes. He's not part of the group, he gets nothing out of the activity, but he's high enough that he's in no danger, plus he can keep agroing the mobs so they don't bother anyone else and the low-levels get tons of XP and loot from encounters they couldn't attempt in a million years otherwise. Depending on the numbers, you can go up 2-3 levels an hour or more that way without breaking a sweat and without having much, if any danger to yourself.
Is that fun? Not really. Is it challenging? Not a chance. Does it completely blow game balance IMO? Hell yes.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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A have one idea even though it is a bit whacked.
A game where you level backwards! Yeh, you heard me, you level backwards. You start of uber but the game lore is set in some strange devolutionary vibe where you start of as some golden maned super wanger strutting about like an armor plated peacock and, erm, level down from there. The end game is getting to level 0 when your character is deleted. But you do get bonuses and unlocks for every delete for when you make new characters.
Regards
Melmoth
Not much can be done to close the gap, but I'm sure that newbies will eventually become veterans.
It only takes experience.
It depends on how much emphasis the game puts on the "end game". If the game puts a LOT of emphasis on the end game, then the result is people will rush to the end and stay there.
Especially if the game expands levels upward with expansions, instead of expansions for level 1 to current max, this makes it even worse.
At first there is no real rush to the "end game", although some will no matter what, because there's nothing waiting for you there. Everyone else is still leveling up.
But eventually, everyone is raiding, or PvPing in the end game, so the leveling part is just a rush to get to that.
The problem with alts is repeating content. Generally, MMORPG content is very boring because the world is static. Some NPC asks you to help him stop the Orc invasion. So you go whack a bunch of orcs. Then when you roll an alt, guess what? He STILL needs help with the Orc invasion.
How many times are you entertained stopping the same 'invasion" that never happens?
The Old Republic is trying to solve this with massive content. They have different story lines for the different classes, so rolling an alt of a different class, means new content to play.
Plus, the devs have stated it's soloable ot the level cap (not really a big deals since this applies to all MMORPGs these days), so you're not going to be stuck even if the pop is low at the lower levels.
It would have the same effect, but seem a bit less odd if your characters level was the age of the character and he/she died at top level. It's a good idea, the developers would have to consentrate on new content for all levels not just the top level stuff and we could have a game world that changed depending on what players did, rather than another new top level dungeon being added.
Really? I think it's the Me-Me-Me personality that alienates me towards many newcomers. Ever helped a person with a simple answer to a question, but then they ask another. And another. And another. Or done somebody a quick favor and then they're like...can you do this too?
It's not fun.