Not another FFXIII sucks = FFXIV future suckage topic...

Albytaps

I want to bring to your attention that I want to make some comparisons to FFXIII keeping in mind these are 2 different genres but by the same maker.

 

FFXIII has been a disappointment so far but I'm glad I stuck to it because I am enjoying it now (RPG's are my favorite genre besides Mmorpg's, FFXIII is linear so far 28 hours in and I wanted the overworld.)  FFXIV I'm sure has taken some ideas from one genre to the other.  Which ones is the question...

 

What if... just what if they took some ideas from the combat and put it into FFXIV?  I don't know what to think of this anymore, I was always agianst the idea of switching classes in mid-battle.  Now with Paradigm Shifts, do you thinnk it may be a sign of something they've been thinking about doing?  It seems they want the speed and ease of switching jobs mid-battle as long as you can keep up with the strategy.  I don't see this being a far-fetched idea anymore (the Armoury.)

 

FFXIII has some things that could have been made with Mmorpg's in mind.  The walking around portion (so called exploring) of FFXIII has features that resemble mmorpgs.  You have your team mates walking around with you in real time (not the first game that's done this) and you can see them and hear them.  Only huge difference is that FF's always shift to a battle screen.  Besides the shift, it can be compared to a Mmorpgs battle, only it's fast.  Mmoprg's need to be slower paced, there's human cooperation involved and internet so it needs to give the players time to react.

 

I think FFXIV will be faster paced than what we saw in those videos.  I'll have to check them again, but I think there were some clues like those cockatrices I remember seemed to be attacking fast (no damage was done though.)

 

So has anyone else opened their mind to the possibilty of job/class switching mid-battle?

Khrymson

Originally posted by Albytaps

 

I think FFXIV will be faster paced than what we saw in those videos.  I'll have to check them again, but I think there were some clues like those cockatrices I remember seemed to be attacking fast (no damage was done though.)

 

Thats because the characters in the Gamescom demo were heavily buffed so players could try the game without risk of being defeated, while they learned to play.

 

And no, changing jobs mid-battle would not be a welcomed feature, and would make things far to easy if possible.  Combat will more than likely be very similar to FFXI in terms of speed, but damage delt as well as more than one-on-one may be possible while solo, which could essentially make progress feel quicker.

swalker23

I personally don't like switching classes in battle in XIII but I can tolerate it.  It would be more better if you could make more than 6 Paradigm Shifts.  There isn't much exploring in XIII in the land of Pulse you can cover the entire map(s) in 1-2 hours if you avoid as much of the fights if you can.  I made the mistake of trying to take down a Adamantoise the first time I saw one.

Hyanmen

Changing classes midbattle only works in single player games.. It doesn't matter if the characters can do everything at once. 

Put it in MMO perspective, when someone with all classes leveled would have advantage over someone with just one class in battle... overbrokenness.

Illyssia

FF XIII initially really is story and an interesting battle system, if you got into that it's a great game and the linearity doesn't matter. Players looking for the RPG non-linear elements can get them eventually if the persevere, but you are right it is later on. Really the game is a package if you get all the layers it is a great experience of a game, if you only got some of them you might be worrying about FF XIV, which is mmo genre, so really a totally different game play experience. Maybe Japanese players are just a more patient lot than Western players, food for thought in the design of these games.

Majin_Jubei

I don't know why people hated the shifts, I personally enjoy them as it makes battles LESS BORING! You actually have to pay attention to what is going on or end up losing(I've actually lost what I thought was going to be an easy battle because I got overconfident and just smashed away at the accept command). I just can't understand people who want nothing more than what has been done to death before and hate change.

As to the topic at hand, SE has said time and time again that changing classes while actively in combat will not happen.

Hrayr2148

FFXIV developers have said that you will either be in passive or active mode at any give time.  In batter you are in active mode.  You cannot switch job classes while in active mode.

 

The way it's designed is that for example, a gladiator, in between battles can heal and buff up, switch weapons and get back to whacking things.  It doesn't mean that a gladiator can  become a conjurer half way through the encounter.

 

I like what they're doing and can't wait to learn more. 

Albytaps

Good to hear, I rather concentrate on one job let alone switch mid-battle.

 

Oh well, this is a dead subject.

Alberel

Like others have said there's no class switching mid-battle. On the topic of the general FFXIII to FFXIV comparison though, there won't be many similarities. The actual dev teams behind the games are entirely different, and the XIII team are now all working on Versus XIII, so they don't share any creative direction. The only connection betwen the two that I've found so far is that the Conjuror class has an ability called Paradigm Shift which doesn't actually do anything like the equivalent in XIII, it's just a small reference to the game. Actually quite a few of the Conjuror abilities were references to other FFs, there's a Trance reference to FFIX in there as well.

skoreanime

Originally posted by Alberel

Like others have said there's no class switching mid-battle. On the topic of the general FFXIII to FFXIV comparison though, there won't be many similarities. The actual dev teams behind the games are entirely different, and the XIII team are now all working on Versus XIII, so they don't share any creative direction. 

Naw, most likely the XIII team was split between other different projects, not just the other XIII titles.  Like any level headed developer would do, especially when it comes to their flagship title, is quickly have people get that project started.  I mean of course FF XV.

 

Wizardry

I don't like the class switching be it in FFXIII or in a MMORPG.I have seen this push towards a more ARCADE style game play,Asians in general prefer this type of comabt,i was actually surprised to find the FF series and FFXi especially was a breathe of fresh air.I thought to myself..FINALLY someone got it right,this is not a 1 on 1 deathmatch where yo uhave lightning fast refelxes,this is a MMORGP,you need time to react and utilize team work.Most games really have no real teamwork it is just a group of players all acting solo like,it is a weak design that bothers me.

I sort of agree with the OP that the combat in FFXIV may end up being faster than FFXI.I don't really like multiple enemies,i find it cheapens combat and makes it look unrealistic,however maybe 2/3 and ONLY if ittakes some incredible team work to do it,example similar to drawing unexpected aggro while fighting a tough mob.

I never liked the EQ also done in many games,where by you fight 3-6 mobs but each one individually just sucks bad and how the tank is able to hold hate on all 6 is unrealistic combat.A tank SHOULD have to go from one to one and grab hate,he should not have aoe hate.

IMO FFXI had a lot of room to get better,but to totally change the combat structure would be a HUGE mistake,the closer it gets to arcade or other games,it is taking a step backwards.This si what scares me about Square Enix over the past few years ,they seem to be trying too hard to get more subs rather than making a great game,and we all know catering to subscriptions means a MUCH cheaper game.

Hyanmen

Originally posted by Wizardry

IMO FFXI had a lot of room to get better,but to totally change the combat structure would be a HUGE mistake,the closer it gets to arcade or other games,it is taking a step backwards.This si what scares me about Square Enix over the past few years ,they seem to be trying too hard to get more subs rather than making a great game,and we all know catering to subscriptions means a MUCH cheaper game.

I don't know where you people pull this stuff from. Some of the comments here are completely insane.

stayontarget

We have only seen a few clips of the game and already people are saying there is "still room for improvement" ? WTF

How about we wait UNTILL the game comes out before we start making outlandish statements. LMAO.

Albytaps

I understand where Wizardry is coming from.  I think you misunderstood.

Alberel

Originally posted by Albytaps

I understand where Wizardry is coming from.  I think you misunderstood.

I don't mean to speak for Hyanmen (or whoever you were responding to) but Wizardry's post seems to make a lot of ill-informed assumptions about the game.

The arcadey style gameplay he is fearing does not look to be present in XIV... all the combat mechanics of XI seem to be still present (skill chains, etc.) and in many cases they've been expanded upon (range affecting damage, positional attacks for all classes, elemental affinities). The party coordination that many love FFXI for is most definately still there. The only significant change to the combat that we know of is the number of targets that players will have to deal with and that alone is not a cause for concern, if anything it is simply more realistic.

As far as SE catering to players in order to increase subscriptions the only suggestion of this we know of is that it is 'possible' to solo. We do not even know the extent or ease of this soloability, and given that SE have said they are trying to appeal to their current fanbase as much as new players I doubt they will entirely betray the forced grouping concept that their community has come to love.

There really is no real need to fear such things in XIV yet, not with the info we have so far.

Albytaps

Originally posted by Alberel

Originally posted by Albytaps

I understand where Wizardry is coming from.  I think you misunderstood.

I don't mean to speak for Hyanmen (or whoever you were responding to) but Wizardry's post seems to make a lot of ill-informed assumptions about the game.

The arcadey style gameplay he is fearing does not look to be present in XIV... all the combat mechanics of XI seem to be still present (skill chains, etc.) and in many cases they've been expanded upon (range affecting damage, positional attacks for all classes, elemental affinities). The party coordination that many love FFXI for is most definately still there. The only significant change to the combat that we know of is the number of targets that players will have to deal with and that alone is not a cause for concern, if anything it is simply more realistic.

As far as SE catering to players in order to increase subscriptions the only suggestion of this we know of is that it is 'possible' to solo. We do not even know the extent or ease of this soloability, and given that SE have said they are trying to appeal to their current fanbase as much as new players I doubt they will entirely betray the forced grouping concept that their community has come to love.

There really is no real need to fear such things in XIV yet, not with the info we have so far.

 This is the only thing he said about FFXIV though:

 

I sort of agree with the OP that the combat in FFXIV may end up being faster than FFXI.I don't really like multiple enemies,i find it cheapens combat and makes it look unrealistic,however maybe 2/3 and ONLY if ittakes some incredible team work to do it,example similar to drawing unexpected aggro while fighting a tough mob.

 

Everything else was about what he thinks of other games.  SE has been taking a path I haven't cared for either anywhere near as much I used to love their overworld FF's... and FFXI of course.

Hawkaron

FF VII 7x GOOD

FF VIII DUNNO, but I heard it's good

FFIX pretty good

FFX shit

FFX-2 double shit

FFXI ok/good

FFXII a bit better than good

FFXIII scentless turd, bit better than shit. but this was made by the team of FFX-2 or so I heard. Doesn't count

Hmm, so according to my taste analysis, I predict FFXIV to be inbetween, the inbetween of ok and good, and very good. Join the dark side, uhuhuhu. You get a free set of high quality crystal spheres of foretelling in 3 sizes, including a moogle figure only now.

Albytaps

Originally posted by Hawkaron

FF VII 7x GOOD

FF VIII DUNNO, but I heard it's good

FFIX pretty good

FFX shit

FFX-2 double shit

FFXI ok/good

FFXII a bit better than good

FFXIII scentless turd, bit better than shit. but this was made by the team of FFX-2 or so I heard. Doesn't count

Hmm, so according to my taste analysis, I predict FFXIV to be inbetween, the inbetween of ok and good, and very good. Join the dark side, uhuhuhu. You get a free set of high quality crystal spheres of foretelling in 3 sizes, including a moogle figure only now.

 Hahaha!  Double shit!

Alberel

Originally posted by Albytaps

Originally posted by Alberel

Originally posted by Albytaps

I understand where Wizardry is coming from.  I think you misunderstood.

I don't mean to speak for Hyanmen (or whoever you were responding to) but Wizardry's post seems to make a lot of ill-informed assumptions about the game.

The arcadey style gameplay he is fearing does not look to be present in XIV... all the combat mechanics of XI seem to be still present (skill chains, etc.) and in many cases they've been expanded upon (range affecting damage, positional attacks for all classes, elemental affinities). The party coordination that many love FFXI for is most definately still there. The only significant change to the combat that we know of is the number of targets that players will have to deal with and that alone is not a cause for concern, if anything it is simply more realistic.

As far as SE catering to players in order to increase subscriptions the only suggestion of this we know of is that it is 'possible' to solo. We do not even know the extent or ease of this soloability, and given that SE have said they are trying to appeal to their current fanbase as much as new players I doubt they will entirely betray the forced grouping concept that their community has come to love.

There really is no real need to fear such things in XIV yet, not with the info we have so far.

 This is the only thing he said about FFXIV though:

 

I sort of agree with the OP that the combat in FFXIV may end up being faster than FFXI.I don't really like multiple enemies,i find it cheapens combat and makes it look unrealistic,however maybe 2/3 and ONLY if ittakes some incredible team work to do it,example similar to drawing unexpected aggro while fighting a tough mob.

 

Everything else was about what he thinks of other games.  SE has been taking a path I haven't cared for either anywhere near as much I used to love their overworld FF's... and FFXI of course.

His last paragraph was discussing his fears of XIV moving away from XI's combat system, I was just addressing those concerns. XIV looks to be mostly expanding upon the groundwork laid in XI's combat system, rather than directly changing anything.

Albytaps

I see what you mean now Alb.  My bad.