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Already burned out on this game
Redhawk2006
Member Posts: 105
Like others have mentioned, I really wanted to like this game. I love the desert and indeed, riding through the desert has been one of my favorite parts of the this game. But there is simply too much anal-retentive bean-counter BS in this game, and it seems the developers and the community seem intent on adding more. There is a personality type that finds being frustrated, aggravated and bored fulfilling, and this game often seems to be aimed at that personality type. The inventory system is a complete nighmare, giving you nowhere near the space you need to store all the itmes you will need to craft your gear or just because you don't yet know what they might be needed for. Rule #1 of any RPG is don't throw anything out or sell it unless you have to, and this game not only has thousands of items, but multiplle versions of the same item which have different names and take up precious invetory slots, but which serve the same purpose.
Pretty soon you will find your pack and main vault filled, and will have to use the "barter" vault which is only located in select towns, often a 5 to 20 minute ride away or more, and then there is ther "VIP" vault which you have to earn, which is located only in capital cities. The VIP vault if often so far away from where you are currently playing as to be completely useless, unless you enjoy hour-long round trips just to retrieve items you thought you didn't need. You can also store items on mounts, but you then have the hassle of locating the stable in every town, paying to have your mount towed to that stable, and then riding back and forth between your vault and the stable to move items there, subject to pretty strict encumbrance limits which prevent you from moving many heavy stacks at a time or storing them in the vehicles. You can also send items to bank mules, but only 1 item at a time and often your mule may only be able to carry 1 or 2 stacks at a time which means running back and forth between the vault and the mailbox. All this micromanaging of inventory is remarkably tedious and frustrating, and I finally found myself dreading signing on to the game due to the sheer aggravation of playing warehouse manager for 30 percent of my game time. This is a game-killing element and everyone in my clan complains about it.
Then there is the looting system. There is no auto loot option, except for holding the shift key down while you loot which may not sound like a big deal, but over the course of looting thousands of nodes becomes a real PITA. Looting involves riding up to a node on your mount, taking 5 seconds to dismount, another agonizing 5 seconds to loot the item, then 5 seconds to get back on your mount. Needless to say, many nodes are protected by annoyingly hyper-aggressive critters who continuously interrupt you while you're looting, which makes the whole venture even more tedious and frustrating than it already is. Now the developers are tallking about decreasing the number of nodes, making scavenging even more of a monotonous grind than it is right now.
PVE combat is awkward, dull and uninspired, and you get real tired real fast of killing mobs that sometimes respawn almost instantly on top of you while you fight your way into dungeons. If they do not respawn on top of ypou, they are guaranteed to respawn before you make it out, requiring you to kill them all over again. Ins't that fun?
Death penalties. It seems there is no end to people who want death penalties in this game for PVP. These range form the current degradation of gear and corpse runs from hell to losing everything on your person whenever you get killed. Apparently, some people think it is fun to spend hours grinding for mats and building your gear just to lose it in an instant by getting ganked by an entire clan camping a PVP zone. Wow, what fun. The idea of penalizing people or wasting their time for participating in any aspect fo the game is absurd.
Enough people have mentioned the lack of a fast travel option which not only makes travel a tedious chore, but makes it very difficult to find people, even clan members, who are willing to help you out on many of the group quests. And a good many of the precious "AP" quests which are required if you want a hard core toon for PVP require you to find a team to do group quests.
This game has a lot of potential, but they need to start eliminating those elements of the game that seemed to have been added for no other reaspon than to create frustration in the false belief that this makes the game challenging in a meaningful way, rather than in a way that is dull and aggravating. Dealth penalties of any kind, towing fees and the inventory system from hell are good examples of what needs to go. Make PVP fun, free and something people want to get into, and encourage participation by offering rewards, rather than discouraging it with penalties. This is what I mean by anal-retentive: too many damn sticks and no carrots. Ditto for looting. Throw your customers a bone by allowing them to loot a few uber objects or cool items from time to time, rather than the same old crap, and cut down the amount of time it takes to loot stuff. Imagine finding a motorcycle in the trash. Wouldn't that be cool?
Comments
I have the complete opposite perspective of the game im sorry you had a bad experience.
Sounds like you want it all right now, and Fallen Earth is not a game that gives it all to you immediately. The game is challenging. There are alot of new elements to it and it is not easy to just roll right through. I enjoy the new challenge. Wow/Warhammer/Aoc/ect/ect are all the same. There is 0 challenge in leveling and maxxing out your character along the way. Fallen Earth is a challenge each level , from where to spend your AP points, to mixing up range and melee, and how to pick your way through some area's to get to your goal. S1 is pretty much a whole begginer area , but when you get to Sector 2 its a whole new challenging environment. When you have ranged mobs picking you apart with guns before you even get close to your destination, it takes a little thinking on how to achieve your goal when you dont completely out class/level the area.
Motorcyle found in the trash? Yeah would be nice but those are one of those perks you get for playing the game and completing objectives and goals and making something and having a reward for your time and efforts, they dont just hand that stuff out like WOW does.
Inventory management is a big one to get a grasp on though it is. There is so so much in this game to harvest and collect and so many skills to level with all of it, its just a case of taking on too much too soon and getting overwhelmed.
With its small flaws the game does have there is though just something about it which is very warm relaxing and inviting. The game has character, atmosphere and a sense of identity. From the sunsets to the music to the NPC's , the game has a feeling of a 'world' and a bit of personality thrown in there. Which I did not get from my past 5 MMO's I tried.
A great thing about this game to do with all of those confusing and consuming mats you collect is to mail it to alts.Crafting works 100% around the clock even offline. Some items you get huge XP gains for making. Mail the mats to your alts, have them craft, when you log back onto them, you have parts for your vehicles built, and a few levels to go with it, so your not just doing the same missions over and over, which shouldnt even be an issue as I could probably level 2-3 characters and see new missions with each character if I progress through the game and not complete each and every one which you dont have to.
The community is amazing, the help channel is THE best ive ever seen. Got a question, need help, just type it up and people are leaping hurdles to answer your questions.
It is a third or first person game, guns can all be shot aimed and fired from first person point of view including some nice scope and zoom in features which is a nice breath of fresh air.
Getting on and off mounts I see could bother some people, but if you just go to heavily dense scavenge node areas and clear it out /shrug not so bad, if you mount up and move 10 feet for every thing you harvest, yeah, no fun. And yes some mobs do protect some areas, if it was all just out in the open with no challenge , well , fun..?
Also the GM support is amazing, always online, always helpfull and trying to ease your transition into a new game. Its only been out for a few months and once you get out there and explore as you are not led by the hand in any way, there is a rich and vast world to explore, from hidden underground cloning bunkers, to deserts of sandworms, and burned out cities infested and taken over with rotting zombies.
No insta purples here, you work for your gear, and it does make a huge difference.
Mounted combat? Yes. Huge open ended non linear world? Yes. No zoning, no invisible walls, no feeling like your boxed in and funneled down a pre determined corridor.
Had nothing but a great experience so far, the game really grows once you get out of the nooby towns and get a firm grasp on everything, takens a bit for sure, but worth the patience and ride.
Pimpwars/Cripplesmash/Legend of the Red Dragon/TradeWars 2002/TrollMud/Usurper
Present: Wurm , Fallen Earth
Er, I don't know where to start here, so may as well say straight off that I don't find being frustraed bored and aggravated in the least bit fulfilling, and I love Fallen Earth.
So many of the things you complain about have simple workarounds. Dismount in a heavily noded area, clear all hostiles and harvest to your hearts content. Remount and leave.
Set up a toon and send them to Embry. Mail them stuff. There is generally a Franklin's Riders mailbox outside storage vaults (defo is one in Embry at the sector/barter vault Bank). "Running back and forth" takes seconds.... VIP vaults (and really, all this takes is a bit of logical thinking) are best used for things like plateau books (since you hand them in in Embry anyway, and the collection is huge) and items like them. Things that count as other things can be streamlined. For example: you don't need to keep tainted chicken legs, tainted coyote meat, tainted creeper meat (etc.) they're only specifically used in a few recipes. Keep a stack of tainted meat and sell everything else that qualifies as it. Simple. I've never had a problem keeping inventory sorted, and I don't even have a mule/banker alt. Weight/encumbrance issues? Add points in str. Especially on your mule character.
Respawn rates have never been an issue for me, and as I play a pistoleer, they should bother me, they eat ammo. But I don't consider the rate to be too high. It's about right. Any lower and the complaint would be that you have to wait forever to kill blah number of critters because they take too long to respawn.
Fast travel is coming, they're playing with it on Public Test at the moment.
PvE combat is simple if you do all the starter towns, and all AP quests - then you've pretty much ensured you've outlevelled all S1 content before you come to it. There's a jump in difficulty when you head into S2, and a pretty exponential one when you hit S3. It ain't always easy.
As far as PvP hardcore babble on the forums, you get that in every game. Why do you assume Icarus are going to pay attention to it? There never will be hardcore FFA PvP in FE, it would draw in fewer players than they'd lose. Even with upcoming Clan Wars in 1.4 there's an option for members of at-war clans NOT to participate. Does that strike you as leading to FFA hardcore death penalty stuff?? There may be players who want FE to be Darkfall or Mortal Online, but they're a minority, albeit a vocal one.
Towing fees are an issue? Really? I'm trying to get my head around this, you have 3 vaults, a clan vault, storage on your active mount....and you need to keep towing mounts to access their storage? Sounds to me like you just need to spend an hour purging your inventory. There's no need to have 6 stacks of everything taking up space, as long as you're steadily crafting 2 stacks of the most-used mats will suffice. Sell any extras. You know what you use most, put that stuff in your sector vault. Keep other things (the stuff you're not sure if you need) in your Barter vault, move stuff from one to the other as your needs change. Any other stuff, whack it in the VIP vault.
It's interesting that you complain about no fast travel so you can't get clan help on group quests, at least you acknowledge that there is group content. Maybe it's down to the times I play at, but I've gotten a group every time I've needed one (usually in under 5 mins) just by asking in /region. Met some really nice players that way too.
As was said above, crafter alts save time and aggro. You can have one toon dedicated to vehicles (as above) or to crafting ammo for your main (leaving them free to do any crafting required for quests as needed). Have them put points in str, cha and social as well as int/per and you'll get great prices for selling off unwanted mats through them.
The system in FE is big and sprawling, it takes a bit of head-work to get the best out of it. If you don't think things through you WILL end up bored and frustrated. But I'm not sure how that's the game's fault...
Players vary immensely in what they want from a game, it's unfortunate that FE doesn't cater to your tastes, and I'm sorry you found the wasteland more frustrating than fun-filled.
Hope you have better luck with whatever you try next.
The above replies prefectly reflect my thoughts as well. I have played a lot of MMOs, FE feels better to me than all of the others. Different, open, and yes, FUN. Best of luck to teh OP, I hope you find a game that fits you better.
Cheers
Every MMORPG is AWESOME, until it's released!
I don't want a game so much as I want a WORLD!
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Good luck in whatever game suits your style of play better OP.
Hope you find what you are seeking.
"So many of the things you complain about have simple workarounds. Dismount in a heavily noded area, clear all hostiles and harvest to your hearts content. Remount and leave.
Not true. It is aggaravating to have to clear mobs, and those mobs will respawn, often right on top of you. long before you are finished harvesting unless you are only doing a few nodes.
"Set up a toon and send them to Embry. Mail them stuff. There is generally a Franklin's Riders mailbox outside storage vaults (defo is one in Embry at the sector/barter vault Bank)."Running back and forth" takes seconds"
Isn't this what I was just complaining about having to do? Did you actually read my post? You have to mail stuff ONE ITEM AT A TIME to your alts, typing or pasting the address in for each e-mail, and you have to open those e-mails and remove items one at a time and often have to transfer them to the vault 1 or 2 items at a time if they are full stacks. This doesn't "take seconds," and it is unnecessarily frustrating and time consuming.
".... VIP vaults (and really, all this takes is a bit of logical thinking) are best used for things like plateau books (since you hand them in in Embry anyway, and the collection is huge) and items like them."
It doesn't take much logical thinking to realize that a vault that is a 1 hour round trip away is essentially useless. The Plateau books will easily fill up over half a vault by themselves, more if you start making sets and it is not like you collect them in one area that just happens to be near the VIP vault. How do you get a plateau book into a vault when you are an hour round trip away? You have to mail those books one at a time to an alt. Anything else is completely impractical.
"Things that count as other things can be streamlined. For example: you don't need to keep tainted chicken legs, tainted coyote meat, tainted creeper meat (etc.) they're only specifically used in a few recipes."
Like everything else, you don't know what you do or don't need until you're well passed the point those items might have any use, and even then, you might have a quest that requires some of these or other ingredients, like lemons, etc.
"Keep a stack of tainted meat and sell everything else that qualifies as it. Simple. I've never had a problem keeping inventory sorted, and I don't even have a mule/banker alt. Weight/encumbrance issues? Add points in str. Especially on your mule character."
Then there is no way you are a crafter, as everything in my inventory is a tradeskill item, and I don't have duplicate stacks of anything. All extra stacks get mailed to the alt. Boosting strength does not dramatically alter your carry weight to where you can suddenly carry multiple stacks where you couldn't before.
"Respawn rates have never been an issue for me, and as I play a pistoleer, they should bother me, they eat ammo. But I don't consider the rate to be too high. It's about right. Any lower and the complaint would be that you have to wait forever to kill blah number of critters because they take too long to respawn."
Actually, both are true. Mobs respawn too quickly when you don't want them to, such as in instances where you have to fight through trash mobs that respawn in seconds to get to an objective, only to have to fight the same mobs on the way out or even while you are trying to heal. They don't respawn fast enough when you have one of those "go here and kill 10 of these" quests during which you may have to wait for respawns, or when you're rep-grinding.
"PvE combat is simple if you do all the starter towns,"
Exactly. PVE combat is "simple" and requires no real strategy or skills, just that you have a reasonable level going against whatever it is you are fighting. This tends to be either boring or frustrating, but no real fun.
"As far as PvP hardcore babble on the forums, you get that in every game. Why do you assume Icarus are going to pay attention to it?"
Because the game already has death penalties which are frustrating enough to anyone who wants to play intense PVP for hours where you are likely to get killed multiple times. I hear people complaining that the mats needed to build repair kits at the higher levels are scarce, meaning it is costly to go in an get killed and have to repair your stuff. Icarus has shown no tendency to remove this nonsense and make PVP free and easy to participate in. Then there are the corpse runs every time you get killed. Not fun.
"Towing fees are an issue? Really? I'm trying to get my head around this, you have 3 vaults, a clan vault, storage on your active mount....and you need to keep towing mounts to access their storage?"
You're not being honest here. Once again, you do not have ready access to all 3 vaults, and it is impractical to have to ride all the way to a "barter" town or the capitol just to access your barter and VIP vaults. In fact, this setup is downright stupid and frustrating, anc could easily be solved by making all vaults available in all towns. In practice, this means you will often need to mail stuff to alts, which is expensive and time consuming, or tow your mounts around to use as mobile storage. I don't know anyone in my clan who doesn't do this. Depending on the level of your mount/vehicle, towing fees can be exhorbitant. You also pay fees when you are doing instances and get killed, and need to tow your mount to a stable rather than do a 2-mile corpse run back to the objective. As an example, i was doing one instance with a clan mate, I forget which one, where we all-too-typically didn't have the manpower for the job and thus kept getting killed. There was a stable right next to the Lifenet pod, but to tow my Advanced Riding Horse there cost 256 chips. Multiply by 5 deaths, and that is a lot of money just for towing, plus the cost to repair my armor and weapons. So I towed a cheaper horse there and used that, but still had to pay to get my other mount back. Total waste of money and what good is a horse that is too expensive to tow? Not exactly an incitement for helping a team mate out, now is it?
"Sounds to me like you just need to spend an hour purging your inventory."
This contradicts everything you've said about inventory being easy. I have spent many an hour so far "purging" and rearranging inventory. That is exactly my point: you shouldn't have to waste so much time on inventory, as doing so is not fun, it is frustrating and tedious. Why do you keep defending broken mechanics?
"There's no need to have 6 stacks of everything taking up space, as long as you're steadily crafting 2 stacks of the most-used mats will suffice. Sell any extras. You know what you use most, put that stuff in your sector vault. Keep other things (the stuff you're not sure if you need) in your Barter vault, move stuff from one to the other as your needs change. Any other stuff, whack it in the VIP vault."
Once again, you do not have ready access to all vaults. Be real. Your comments do not reflect the reality of the game.
"It's interesting that you complain about no fast travel so you can't get clan help on group quests, at least you acknowledge that there is group content."
Why wouldn't I? There is obviously group content though much of it can be soloed.
"Maybe it's down to the times I play at, but I've gotten a group every time I've needed one (usually in under 5 mins) just by asking in /region. Met some really nice players that way too."
Nonsense. I just spent a whole weekend trying to get a group to do the New Flagstaff University instance. I didn't get a single response. I finally found a group from a clan that was doing it, which meant 2 level 46, one level 31 and me, a level 25. Needless to say, I scarcely got a hit in but I wasn't complaining.
Of course, we had to kill the final boss twice because some of us didn't realize that when it says use the pass key to open the door to the final boss, that means every single person has to use the pass key to open the door, even though the door was opended with the first key. After we killed the boss, everyone had to plant the bomb, not just one. This is not a group-friendly practice by any means.
"As was said above, crafter alts save time and aggro. You can have one toon dedicated to vehicles (as above) or to crafting ammo for your main (leaving them free to do any crafting required for quests as needed). Have them put points in str, cha and social as well as int/per and you'll get great prices for selling off unwanted mats through them."
Great, I have to level up another character just to do crafting. No thanks.
"The system in FE is big and sprawling, it takes a bit of head-work to get the best out of it. If you don't think things through you WILL end up bored and frustrated. But I'm not sure how that's the game's fault..."
Having to "think through" inventory is as fun as playing Microsoft Excel online. That IS the game's fault.
I don't understand why you feel the need to defend what are obviously failed game mechanics, particularly the inventory system. It is obvious the inventory system was designed to be a massive time sink, and that fact is proving frustrating and a game killer for quite a few people in my clan who, like me, will most likely leave the game because of it. Every subscriber lost means the developers have less money to put into the game to make it better. When you and other enthusiasts for the game defend broken mechanics, the developers don't get the feedback they need to fix them. It would be very simple for the developers to fix the inventory system in the game and make it more realistic and less of a hassle. There is no logical reason why stack sizes are only 100, or finished good stacks are limited to 20 items. No logical reason not to have access to all vaults in all towns, or have more vault space. Maybe you don't have a problem with running out of inventory, but I see no reason to question those that do or offer defenses that aren't entirely realistic or truthful. Not a single person will leave this game because there is too much inventory space, but thousands will leave because there is too little and managing inventory is too much of a hassle. Do you want to see the game die?
Sounds like you want it all right now
I'm not exactly sure what that is supposed to mean, even though it seems to be a stock response to every criticism of this game. Please explain in detail what that means and how my post indicates that I "want it all right now." Then explain why this is a bad thing. Of course, I want a game that is fun and not deliberately and unnecessarily frustrating, and since I am paying for that game right now, it stands to reason i expect to be having some fun right now as well.
Like I said, I play games for fun. I realize that most MMOs include a lot of grinding and other boring crap to create time sinks which make it take longer to achieve objectives thus forcing you to play longer. Unfortunately, this stuff also tends to burn people out on the game and make them quit. It took me over a year with WoW to realize I was working a part-time job, not playing a game versus about 2 weeks with this game. What sustained me in WoW was that the PVP was pretty intense and readily accessible, versus the drag it is here. It is only when they nerfed my class into uselessness in PVP that i finally realized that all the other elements of the game just weren't worth it just to play broken PVP.
There has to be a balance between time sinks and fun, and this game is simply too heavy on the time sinks--endless, time consuming travel, managing inventory, harvesting, etc, and too light on the fun. if the developers and the game's fans wish to see this game succeed, they had better start questioning that balance, and soon.
TO OP:
when it comes to your complaints about PvP I am a bit amazed actually. You seem to want a PvP system where there is nothing lost and nothing gained, which begs the question why have pvp in the first place?
My other game is Darkfall and the truth is I am not really much of a pvp player but a little durabilty loss becuase you get killed aint nothin son. trying losing a boat your clan worked on for 3 months.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I have to comment on the PVP remark. I haven't played FE in months, mainly because of the terrible PVP in a Post-Apocolypse game.
When I played, PVP cost alot with absolutely 0 gain. Whether you win or lose a fight, both of you come out as losers, because both of you have to spend alot of money on Ammo and Repair kits. For there to be losses, there have to be gains... somewhere.... but they were non-existent. From what I've gathered, not much has changed and the "plans" they have to change the PVP are as pathetic as Death Toll was/is.
Then, there is absolutely nothing to do in PVE and the whole premise of the game really gives no direction for the development team to even take higher level PVE. PVP is just a much easier fix to a serious problem.
The problem is, when a game is in Alpha it's a child. When a game is in beta, it's a young-adult. When a game is launched, it's like a 30yr old. To me, this is Fallen Earth.
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Did you actually read what I wrote? I said I want a PVP system where there are no losses, only gains. Where people are rewarded for participating rather than punished. I realize a lot of people hate PVP but there was never a shortage of people to PVP with in WoW because they used this system. PVP was no muss, no fuss, nearly instantly available, with the only loss being to your dignity, which some people do hate but that is unavoidable. Even there, noobs without a clue could have their moments of glory, and I racked up good kills even as a noob with crap gear and no idea what was going on. People who hated PVP would do it to get the PVP rewards, whcih were very good. Then there were the hard core PVPers who played because it was fun. PVP isn't fun when you are punished for participating, and there is a chronic shortage of players in PVP areas.
Why have PVP? Because it's fun. Participating in PVP should be its own reward. Getting gear and other stuff should just be an incentive to get those who don't like it to participate in it. If PVP isn't fun or it's just a costly hassle then its worthless. Death penalties are stupid.
Losing a boat your clan worked on for 3 months is inane. This is not a model an MMO developer that wants to be successful should follow. I would, as a player, get no satisfaction from destroying such a boat as I don't get off on causing stress to people, nor would I enjoy such a thing if I were the victim, as I don't get off on being stressed. Hell, when I saw an "enemy" noob struggling in PVP I'd sometimes let him kill me if we had a sure win just so he could have the satisfaction of doing so. When I saw opposing players playing well I would salute them. I'm not into humiliating people.
I did read your post, and I frankly don't see what's so time consuming about copying/pasting and the short run (3 secs max) from the mailbox to a vault. Or spending a whole ten minues in a barter town every now and then making sure your go-to stuff is in your sector vault. Or so hard and aggravating about mailing plateau books as you come across them to an alt parked in Embry? Your argument about the sets is specious, multiple copies of books stack, the sets take up less space, you can't have half your VIP vault space taken up with books and not have enough for a set or a collection. Bind 'em up into and they take less space. You're accusing me of dishonesty, but you're making things out to be more complicated than they are. If your whole argument for broken mechanics is based on only being able to mail stuff a stack at a time, then I can't relate at all to your problem. Sorry.
You're never more than a ten minute ride from a barter town. But I guess you'll counter that with ten minutes being too long? I consider that ready enough access. The half-hour it takes to get to a VIP vault is a pain, but I do it twice a week anyway. Parking an alt there would save the ride, sure, it costs chips to mail to them and have them mail stuff back, but it would save more of that time that is so important to you.
I suggested the crafter alt as a timesaver and mats sink for your main. Thanks for the sarcastic response. I thought you might be interested in a work-around for your problem, obviously I was wrong.
Nothing I said in my post was dishonest. I have never had a problem finding a group. I scavenge and craft my ass off. I never once accused you of dishonesty, don't call me a liar because my experience differs to yours.
As for your remark about needing lemons (for example) for a recipe, if I need lemons, I use the chips gained from selling off excess stuff to buy them. If I have to ride to buy mats I didn't bother keeping, then I consider that fair. I dumped the stuff, I should have to go look for it.
You say that's broken game mechanics, I disagree. You're the one towing your horse after each of 5 deaths rather than doing the corpse run (I admit some of them are long, but I've never once towed a mount for one). You're *choosing* to pay chips to save time. On the inventory front, you're doing the opposite, holding on to everything so you don't have to spend, but then you will have to micromanage space. It's a trade off.
Saying you need to discard some stuff in your inventory (the spend an hour purging bit) is not contradicting saying you don't need to keep everything. It's the same thing, worded differently.
And I'm not some fangirl defender, I complain about stuff that I consider needs fixing, I just consider some things (warping/unresponsive mobs, wonky pathing, meaningless factions, no real PvP incentive, inability to reshuffle crafting queue) to be broken, and others (like inventory) to be perfectly workable. I considered overcharging daft and am glad they got rid of it before it hit live. The repair kits on live I can live with, the fatigue system on test I have severe problems with. But it's on test and a ways away from being in live. I'm spending time on test so I can feed back on it, instead of taking the word of forum posters on how harsh the fatigue is.
And hells no I don't want to see the game die, but I think you're incorrect if you think stacks of 100 for mats and of 20 for crafted stuff, and only being able to mail one attachment at a time are what'll break it. As I've said, there are other issues that I consider more "game-breaking" than yours. But hey, that's just my opinion. What you consider game-breaking, I consider mere irritants. Different players, different opinions. No law against it, and it's what keeps forums thriving.
Rewards in FE for PvP are skill based, not participation based. It straddles a line between WoW and the more hardcore games like DF and MO. It's all about risk vs reward. The risks make the rewards feel earned, at least to me.
WoW's system was boring to me precisely because there was no risk. No excitement, no tension. Just consequenceless zerging.
Again, different opinions, different player types. Sean's interpretation of what you said wasn't strictly wrong, if gear is available just for participating then that gear isn't really any sort of reward, if everyone can get it just by showing up enough then nothing really is gained, and everyone ends up with the top gear. The prospect of losing something (damage to items) makes the rewards, if you can earn them, all the greater. I don't want a prize just for showing up. I'm no elitist hardcore PvPer, far from it, but I like to feel that I've earned stuff, both in and out of games. Just like I wasn't much of a raider in WoW, and I thought it was wrong that I should be able to get the same gear as my friends who raided 3 times a week... I had full T9 when I left, but I never felt like I deserved it.
Maybe it's my age, but I don't feel entitled to something I get merely for showing up. Value to me is reduced by getting something for nothing. I'd be more attached to crafted gear I scavenged for and made myself than deathtoll gear handed out like candy. Stats bedamned.
Fair enough and well put. I think I agree with about 90% of what you are saying not that I measure it.
Sorry i just saw that and coming from darkfall I am thinking durablity loss aint no big deal, but that aside, I think you are right.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
"I did read your post, and I frankly don't see what's so time consuming about copying/pasting and the short run (3 secs max) from the mailbox to a vault."
Let's break down the steps to move an extra stack of scrap steel out of your vault and send it to an alt. .
1. Remove all excess items from your pack. Sell any vendor junk you have to free up space/weight.
2. Remove extra stack of scrap steel, but leave some scrap steel behind and as a placeholder for any other scrap steel you find because you will need it.
3. Go to mailbox and open it
4. Click on "send new message" or whatever it's called.
5. Type in name of alt you are sending it to.
6. Copy alt's name so you can paste it in for the next item you have to send rather than retype it.
7. Open pack, and drag and drop stack into the mail.
8. Send item at a cost of 10 chips each, which is expensive for low level toons.
Rinse and repeat for each item you have to send to the alt.
Now to get that item back, you will have to:
9. log off, and relog onto your alt.
10. Have alt open mail, click on remove item, then delete the mail, ensuring you have pack space first as it is easy to accidentally delete an item that you thought you grabbed but did not in fact grab because you were encumbered. Or if you've already removed the item, go to the vault to retrieve it.
11. Now repeat steps 1 to 8 on you alt, and 9 and 10 on your main, to get the item back.
Rinse and repeat for each item you are sending your main.
To say this whole convoluted process takes a mere 3 seconds is not being realistic.
Compare this to "open vault, add stack to already existing stack of 100 + items, close vault, and move on, which is the way it should work, and you get an idea why this is so frustrating.
"Or spending a whole ten minues in a barter town every now and then making sure your go-to stuff is in your sector vault."
You underestimate the time involved in shifting items from vault to vault, as well as the time wasted getting there. I see a herd of people parked in front of the vaults in New Flagstaff, which is the only place I've encountered so far where all 3 vaults are side by side. Most are there for more than 10 minutes.
"Or so hard and aggravating about mailing plateau books as you come across them to an alt parked in Embry? Your argument about the sets is specious, multiple copies of books stack, the sets take up less space, you can't have half your VIP vault space taken up with books and not have enough for a set or a collection."
There are 36 plateau books. Each one occupies a single inventory space and requires a single e-mail to send to your alt, even though each individual book stacks with identical copies of itself. There are also multiple copies of the same book, which also have to be sent to your alt one at a time. When you combine a set, chances are you already have mutliple copies of the book you are combining and will not free up the space, but instead use up another slot. Since you have to combine the sets into collections and then turn them in each for a single ap point, then rebuild those collections and combine them into the Omnibus for another 5 AP, you have to keep all these extra books unless you have it all figured out exactly how many of each book you need and keep tabs on them. To manage all this without wasting slots requires a huge amount of micromanagement which just isn't worth it.
"Bind 'em up into and they take less space. You're accusing me of dishonesty, but you're making things out to be more complicated than they are. If your whole argument for broken mechanics is based on only being able to mail stuff a stack at a time, then I can't relate at all to your problem. Sorry."
You will likely be finding the Northfields books before you are finished with the Plateau books, unless you have a lot of money to buy the ones you need or are very lucky, so now there is even more inventory space wasted. I am not exaggerating in the slightest the difficulty in sending, collecting and combining those books and the amount of space they take up. If you are in S2, you will have to make a long journey all the way back to Embry to turn them in, which is definitely more than an hour long round trip.
All this crap, simply because they don't give you enough inventory space, a reality you affirm even as you deny it's any big deal.
"You're never more than a ten minute ride from a barter town. But I guess you'll counter that with ten minutes being too Iong?"
I would counter that it often takes longer than that, especially in S1, and that it is an unnecessary and time consuming PITA that could be easily solved with a functional, fair and realistic inventory system.
"I consider that ready enough access. The half-hour it takes to get to a VIP vault is a pain, but I do it twice a week anyway. Parking an alt there would save the ride, sure, it costs chips to mail to them and have them mail stuff back, but it would save more of that time that is so important to you."
Yes my time is important to me, and having to either mail things to an alt or make that gruelling trip is a solid waste of my time as well as the time it takes me to earn postage.
"I suggested the crafter alt as a timesaver and mats sink for your main. Thanks for the sarcastic response. I thought you might be interested in a work-around for your problem, obviously I was wrong."
The purpose of my post is to point out how bad many of the mechanics in this game are, particularly the inventory system. I am well aware of the workarounds and the fact that they not only exist but are necessary, frustrating and time-wasting is part of what makes the inventory system suck, not a vote in its favor. Denying that inventory is a problem because you can go through the hassle of levelling an entirely different toon just to make stuff for you makes no sense whatsover. This simply shouldn't be necessary. Period.
"Nothing I said in my post was dishonest. I have never had a problem finding a group. I scavenge and craft my ass off. I never once accused you of dishonesty, don't call me a liar because my experience differs to yours."
I never called you a liar, but when you say you have 3 vaults without pointing out that you don't have full equal access to those vaults and that lack of eqaul access means some of your vault space is practically useless for a good part of the time is not being wholly honest. Saying you can't get your head around the idea of using vehicles for storage and towing them around when nearly everyone in my clan does this, people in the forums point out the use of vehicles as vault space to deny inventory is a problem, and there are vehicles with names like "Storage Vault" and "Bankspace" running around, isn't being entirely honest. You can't have played this time for any length of time and not encountered some mention of using vehicles as vault space.
"You say that's broken game mechanics, I disagree. You're the one towing your horse after each of 5 deaths rather than doing the corpse run (I admit some of them are long, but I've never once towed a mount for one). You're *choosing* to pay chips to save time. On the inventory front, you're doing the opposite, holding on to everything so you don't have to spend, but then you will have to micromanage space. It's a trade off."
I "choose" to tow my horse because I have teammates waiting for me to get back who don't want to wait ten minutes every time I die, and the same goes for me. The fact is it shouldn't cost money to tow the horse. period. it shouldn't cost more than 5 times more to tow my Advanced Riding Horse than it does my Running Horse. If you like to do corpse runs knock yourself out. You shouldn't have to do a corpse run and fight your way through the same mobs every time you die. the simple expedient of a Lifenet pod next to major instances would fix that, as well as free towing.
All this is, in fact, a broken mechanic as it renders the game tedious and frustrating. I doubt there is anyone who enjoys corpse runs or finds paying for towing to be rewarding, so why have it?
"Saying you need to discard some stuff in your inventory (the spend an hour purging bit) is not contradicting saying you don't need to keep everything. It's the same thing, worded differently."
You don't need to keep everything, but you do not have enough space in your inventory for what you do need to save, especially when you get to S2 and now have to save both S1 and S2 items in your inventory.
"And hells no I don't want to see the game die, but I think you're incorrect if you think stacks of 100 for mats and of 20 for crafted stuff, and only being able to mail one attachment at a time are what'll break it. As I've said, there are other issues that I consider more "game-breaking" than yours. But hey, that's just my opinion. What you consider game-breaking, I consider mere irritants. Different players, different opinions. No law against it, and it's what keeps forums thriving."
I consider this issue game-breaking because it takes up so much of my time and is so unnecessarily frustrating. I signed on to play Fallout online, not Microsoft Excel online, and if some people can't tell the difference, that's fine. But the developers better get a clue because most people can, and will decide accordingly whether to continue with this game or not.
I have no problems with people getting "free" gear. When I do PVE, I want the people with me to be as well-geared as possible and could care less whether they '"earned" it or not. WoW's PVP gear was anything but easy to earn, as some battles lasted for an hour or more just to give 1 to 3 measely tokens or whatever they were called. This was especially true for Alliance, which usually lost most BGs except Alterac Valley on my server, meaning you really had to grind for those tokens, even if you did nothing but camp the whole time.
The purpose of PVP is to have fun, not earn gear. The purpose of a game is to have fun, not to display an epeen. PVP is made exciting and challenging not through punishments and penalties, but through the quality of the game design and the skill of the opposing players, as well as properly designed class balance. PVP was often wildly intense in WoW and required real strategy and skill to master. I developed tactics to break Horde chokepoints I saw no other player using, and these tactics would often tip the battle in our favor. This is fun, not earning gear or fixing gear.I don't see how doing corpse runs and having to pay to repair my gear translates into "exciting and challenging." For me, gear is just an incentive to get people who hate PVP to join in, and if that 's what it takes to reduce queues or get people involved, I'm cool with that. I know that when I play PVP I give it my all for the team and use tactics that often require that I sacrifice for the team as well. I know I earned my gear.
Thank you, I appreciate that and respect that you can so readily alter your viewpoint. That is rare on the Internet.
Been playing since early October. Average 35-40 hours a week. Yeah, I've heard people talk about using mounts for storage, but I've never had to do it.
Made it my business to get the plateau quests finished up before moving into S2, auctioned off spare books, freed up my VIP vault for S2....(rinse and repeat) It wasn't luck, or buying, it was spending time on scavenging the things.
The three seconds referred to how long it takes to go from a vault to a mailbox, not the entire process. Maybe I wasn't clear enough?
Sure it would be nice to have unlimited storage, but this is a post apocalyptic world - would every hamlet have a banking branch office in it?
Look, I don't want to argue. We differ in that I consider what you consider timewasting to be an integral part of the post-apocalyptic feel of the game. The mail is transported by Franklins Riders, they can only carry so much, I accept that as part of the story (would indeed be nice if you got an extra slot or two in mails based on faction with them though....). I accept that small towns don't have enough security to play host to multiple vault types.
I accept riding around because the world is shot to hell and there's no public transport.
In fact, not only do I accept all of the above, I actually kind of like it. The mechanics tie into the world. It's a hardscrabble life in the wasteland, nothing is simple. While that's all fine by me, I can accept that others might not find it as fun and immersive as I do.
I hope you posted in Tiggs' likes and dislikes thread on the FE forum to let them know how frustrating you find the storage issue. Get your clannies to do it too. Enough people highlight it as an issue and they'll look at it (at least going on track record).
i didn't get as far as Redhawk, but wow I agree with what he says about the mobs and looting.
There were times looting I could not clear them fast enough and I had to abandon the loot or not bother. Heck, half the time I didn't bother killing just because I'd burn through a ton of ammo trying to clear them out. What sucks too is some of them like the creepers are superfast and cant be outrun, and some like the hermit crabs have such a huge aggro range that you always get them on you. Let alone camps where mutants and raiders are hyperdense and it takes 15 minutes to clear a path into the camp proper.
Oh... the frakkin' hermit crabs are the bane of my life. I get really tired of having to use vet kits because my horse'll just stand there and let itself get munched. Their aggro range is indeed a problem, but it'd be mitigated for me if the darned horses would learn to run away and not just stand there to get flogged/munched/bludgeoned.
The spawning gets better in S2 then S3, but i agree... and have made various reports saying such since launch.. meh... the almost crappy looting system is also hardly the best around (in and out of first person). Not sure about the loot tables but when you can get S1 stuff from S2 mobs and every ammo from the starter town human mobs... it should raise some eyebrows.
They need to work on a few core mechanics a lot better, but at the moment they're under a lot of pressure to release more content... i'm sure once an end game is half achieved, then they'll go back and say "we can do this better". Which they did with the tutorial although i find the new "added" one (after hoover dam) pretty crap to be honest.... there i said it.
I think what burns you out is scavenging, you feel you have a need to pick up almost everything you come across... and it does get to you, as well as the sheer amount of quests some of which you have to do to unlock AP ones.. and your not sure whats what so you try to do them all. (much easier in S2, but the actual almost obsessed AP collection does lead to more questions than answers, i'm against a cap.. but... sometimes i'm for it too... )
No respec makes some players worry immensly in the first part of S1 too, i've seen players starting again half way once they realise they put points into the wrong one... and everyone rather than say "it's an RPG play as you want" people feel to be good end game they should go a certain way - cookie cutter comes into play. Starting again leads to all problems, ever tried to send more than one thing in the mail... oh gawd...
Room for much improvement with fallen earth not just the animations, graphics, loot tables, crafting, travel time (yes we like big worlds but when it takes 40 minutes to go and fetch a quest [ATV oilville to odenville for example], you gotta admitt it's a **** moment).... i don't see much improving until content is rolled out.
It's a great game and i'm still subscribed, but i won't sit back and go "yeah it's great with little problems", that would be lying... always room for improvement in any MMO. And Fallen Earth does do some things fantastically but other things, not so well.
"nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week