Do you think they'll put animation before functionality?

Varny

The great thing about WoW's combat is it flows and just feels right. Everything feels like it is reacting to your input on the keyboard and you always feel in control. Games like Age of Conan on the other hand have tried too much with the animation and quite often you don't feel in control of your character. I mean doing attacks you have to wait for the animation to finish before you see the next one. I don't want that because it doesn't match my own input. Also you character seems to move off the centre of the screen and you're trying to move your character to the left and instead they'll still animating and moving to the right, it just feels like you're fighting with the character. Also with WoW you're moving about and it is flowing, like you're trying to make them miss by move too far or behind them. You just don't get that amazing type of combat with other MMOs where you just stand still and hit hotkeys.

What I've seen from Bioware so far is you stand still and hit hotkeys (in Kotor) and it takes animation before the function. The combat is just slow and clumsy because of this and isn't any fun. Also though this combat wouldn't match PVP making it really a PVE game and then everyone would just go back to Wow and SWTOR will fail. Also we've seen poor clumsy combat in BG2 which is just the old skool isometric style. I can't really fault this though because it was more of the times back then for these types of RPGs. Then we've seen the subpar third person shooter mechanics of the Mass Effect games. They just feel really poor and aren't any fun at all, no meat to the shooting and the AI sucks too much for a shooter.

 

So Bioware haven't ever done a good combat system IMO and so it is likely they'll screw this game up with a bad one too. Everything we've seen so far they haven't shown us anything of the MMO yet. We've seen aload of Single Player footage but nothing that makes an MMO an MMO. So in all the trailers the characters are standing still and the animation seems what they're focusing on. Until we see 40 odd people in the same fight, I guess we wont know.

lornphoenix

I liked the way combat flowed in KOTOR, So I didn't find it boring at all.

It was done to make the game's combat look kinda like what you'd see in the movies.

tho you bring up a good point about PvP... but it's hard to say, right now, if it would work or not.

Maverz290

Originally posted by Varny

The great thing about WoW's combat is it flows and just feels right. Everything feels like it is reacting to your input on the keyboard and you always feel in control. Games like Age of Conan on the other hand have tried too much with the animation and quite often you don't feel in control of your character. I mean doing attacks you have to wait for the animation to finish before you see the next one. I don't want that because it doesn't match my own input. Also you character seems to move off the centre of the screen and you're trying to move your character to the left and instead they'll still animating and moving to the right, it just feels like you're fighting with the character. Also with WoW you're moving about and it is flowing, like you're trying to make them miss by move too far or behind them. You just don't get that amazing type of combat with other MMOs where you just stand still and hit hotkeys.

What I've seen from Bioware so far is you stand still and hit hotkeys (in Kotor) and it takes animation before the function. The combat is just slow and clumsy because of this and isn't any fun. Also though this combat wouldn't match PVP making it really a PVE game and then everyone would just go back to Wow and SWTOR will fail. Also we've seen poor clumsy combat in BG2 which is just the old skool isometric style. I can't really fault this though because it was more of the times back then for these types of RPGs. Then we've seen the subpar third person shooter mechanics of the Mass Effect games. They just feel really poor and aren't any fun at all, no meat to the shooting and the AI sucks too much for a shooter.

 

So Bioware haven't ever done a good combat system IMO and so it is likely they'll screw this game up with a bad one too. Everything we've seen so far they haven't shown us anything of the MMO yet. We've seen aload of Single Player footage but nothing that makes an MMO an MMO. So in all the trailers the characters are standing still and the animation seems what they're focusing on. Until we see 40 odd people in the same fight, I guess we wont know.

 I hate it when people speak for us all. Saying from what 'we've' seen so far, maybe you don't mean it but it sounds like your assuming people agree with you.

For starters your putting down Mass Effect.

 That game is fantastic. I've played many shooters, but its a nice blend between the two. Shooter and RPG I mean. The sales of that game prove that fact. Also, I've played AoC and I don't know what your talking about. I've never felt more in control of my actions. I mean you press a button to swing your weapon, how much more control do you need? World of sodding warcraft doesn't have that. It has a run around bounce about kinda pvp combat.

Not that its a bad thing, I liked WoW, but to declare it as the PvP to be, is just foolish. That's old, something new is needed. Strangely enough a combat system with pretty animations like this would be new.

Dunno if you guys have noticed that the jedi actually blocks and reflects blaster bolts with his lightsaber? Now thats awesome. When fighting multiple opponents they also block behind their back. You can see evidence of that in the demo which shows the starter area of the Sith Warrior.

 

I'm sorry your not impressed, but I can guarantee you that even if this game turns out to be an online Kotor, it will be successful. Why? It's because Bioware makes good games. People play Knights of the old Republic, Mass Effect, Jade Empire over and over. Now, give them a few MMO mechanics and that adds so much more to playability of the game.

Worst case scenario, we get Kotor III/IV/V or so. Not a bad deal.

Vulnero87

Originally posted by Maverz290

Originally posted by Varny

The great thing about WoW's combat is it flows and just feels right. Everything feels like it is reacting to your input on the keyboard and you always feel in control. Games like Age of Conan on the other hand have tried too much with the animation and quite often you don't feel in control of your character. I mean doing attacks you have to wait for the animation to finish before you see the next one. I don't want that because it doesn't match my own input. Also you character seems to move off the centre of the screen and you're trying to move your character to the left and instead they'll still animating and moving to the right, it just feels like you're fighting with the character. Also with WoW you're moving about and it is flowing, like you're trying to make them miss by move too far or behind them. You just don't get that amazing type of combat with other MMOs where you just stand still and hit hotkeys.

What I've seen from Bioware so far is you stand still and hit hotkeys (in Kotor) and it takes animation before the function. The combat is just slow and clumsy because of this and isn't any fun. Also though this combat wouldn't match PVP making it really a PVE game and then everyone would just go back to Wow and SWTOR will fail. Also we've seen poor clumsy combat in BG2 which is just the old skool isometric style. I can't really fault this though because it was more of the times back then for these types of RPGs. Then we've seen the subpar third person shooter mechanics of the Mass Effect games. They just feel really poor and aren't any fun at all, no meat to the shooting and the AI sucks too much for a shooter.

 

So Bioware haven't ever done a good combat system IMO and so it is likely they'll screw this game up with a bad one too. Everything we've seen so far they haven't shown us anything of the MMO yet. We've seen aload of Single Player footage but nothing that makes an MMO an MMO. So in all the trailers the characters are standing still and the animation seems what they're focusing on. Until we see 40 odd people in the same fight, I guess we wont know.

 I hate it when people speak for us all. Saying from what 'we've' seen so far, maybe you don't mean it but it sounds like your assuming people agree with you.

For starters your putting down Mass Effect.

 That game is fantastic. I've played many shooters, but its a nice blend between the two. Shooter and RPG I mean. The sales of that game prove that fact. Also, I've played AoC and I don't know what your talking about. I've never felt more in control of my actions. I mean you press a button to swing your weapon, how much more control do you need? World of sodding warcraft doesn't have that. It has a run around bounce about kinda pvp combat.

Not that its a bad thing, I liked WoW, but to declare it as the PvP to be, is just foolish. That's old, something new is needed. Strangely enough a combat system with pretty animations like this would be new.

Dunno if you guys have noticed that the jedi actually blocks and reflects blaster bolts with his lightsaber? Now thats awesome. When fighting multiple opponents they also block behind their back. You can see evidence of that in the demo which shows the starter area of the Sith Warrior.

 

I'm sorry your not impressed, but I can guarantee you that even if this game turns out to be an online Kotor, it will be successful. Why? It's because Bioware makes good games. People play Knights of the old Republic, Mass Effect, Jade Empire over and over. Now, give them a few MMO mechanics and that adds so much more to playability of the game.

Worst case scenario, we get Kotor III/IV/V or so. Not a bad deal.

I understand what your saying, but he's voicing his opinion and to think any differently is pretty stupid.  Just like how you think Bioware makes great games.  Not to mention that these games are singleplayer, which means that they could possibly make a crap multiplayer game.  I really hope they don't, but no one knows the future, so all we can do is hope.

I don't know if you realized, but you contradicted yourself.  You said you hate it when someone talks like they're speaking for a group, but then you do the same thing.  You keep talking like everyone thinks that Bioware is a great company and makes awesome games, but you can find a lot of people who think otherwise.  I like a good chunk of Biowares games.   I also like the direction they seem to be going with the game, but like I said, for all we know this game could flop like no other. 

Either way we all are voicing our opinions.  To think otherwise just shows how naive you are.  Remember, you are on forums and it's a cesspool of people speaking their mind in any way they can........welcome to the internet.

Maverz290

Originally posted by Vulnero87

Originally posted by Maverz290

Originally posted by Varny

The great thing about WoW's combat is it flows and just feels right. Everything feels like it is reacting to your input on the keyboard and you always feel in control. Games like Age of Conan on the other hand have tried too much with the animation and quite often you don't feel in control of your character. I mean doing attacks you have to wait for the animation to finish before you see the next one. I don't want that because it doesn't match my own input. Also you character seems to move off the centre of the screen and you're trying to move your character to the left and instead they'll still animating and moving to the right, it just feels like you're fighting with the character. Also with WoW you're moving about and it is flowing, like you're trying to make them miss by move too far or behind them. You just don't get that amazing type of combat with other MMOs where you just stand still and hit hotkeys.

What I've seen from Bioware so far is you stand still and hit hotkeys (in Kotor) and it takes animation before the function. The combat is just slow and clumsy because of this and isn't any fun. Also though this combat wouldn't match PVP making it really a PVE game and then everyone would just go back to Wow and SWTOR will fail. Also we've seen poor clumsy combat in BG2 which is just the old skool isometric style. I can't really fault this though because it was more of the times back then for these types of RPGs. Then we've seen the subpar third person shooter mechanics of the Mass Effect games. They just feel really poor and aren't any fun at all, no meat to the shooting and the AI sucks too much for a shooter.

 

So Bioware haven't ever done a good combat system IMO and so it is likely they'll screw this game up with a bad one too. Everything we've seen so far they haven't shown us anything of the MMO yet. We've seen aload of Single Player footage but nothing that makes an MMO an MMO. So in all the trailers the characters are standing still and the animation seems what they're focusing on. Until we see 40 odd people in the same fight, I guess we wont know.

 I hate it when people speak for us all. Saying from what 'we've' seen so far, maybe you don't mean it but it sounds like your assuming people agree with you.

For starters your putting down Mass Effect.

 That game is fantastic. I've played many shooters, but its a nice blend between the two. Shooter and RPG I mean. The sales of that game prove that fact. Also, I've played AoC and I don't know what your talking about. I've never felt more in control of my actions. I mean you press a button to swing your weapon, how much more control do you need? World of sodding warcraft doesn't have that. It has a run around bounce about kinda pvp combat.

Not that its a bad thing, I liked WoW, but to declare it as the PvP to be, is just foolish. That's old, something new is needed. Strangely enough a combat system with pretty animations like this would be new.

Dunno if you guys have noticed that the jedi actually blocks and reflects blaster bolts with his lightsaber? Now thats awesome. When fighting multiple opponents they also block behind their back. You can see evidence of that in the demo which shows the starter area of the Sith Warrior.

 

I'm sorry your not impressed, but I can guarantee you that even if this game turns out to be an online Kotor, it will be successful. Why? It's because Bioware makes good games. People play Knights of the old Republic, Mass Effect, Jade Empire over and over. Now, give them a few MMO mechanics and that adds so much more to playability of the game.

Worst case scenario, we get Kotor III/IV/V or so. Not a bad deal.

I understand what your saying, but he's voicing his opinion and to think any differently is pretty stupid.  Just like how you think Bioware makes great games.  Not to mention that these games are singleplayer, which means that they could possibly make a crap multiplayer game.  I really hope they don't, but no one knows the future, so all we can do is hope.

I don't know if you realized, but you contradicted yourself.  You said you hate it when someone talks like they're speaking for a group, but then you do the same thing.  You keep talking like everyone thinks that Bioware is a great company and makes awesome games, but you can find a lot of people who think otherwise.  I like a good chunk of Biowares games.   I also like the direction they seem to be going with the game, but like I said, for all we know this game could flop like no other. 

Either way we all are voicing our opinions.  To think otherwise just shows how naive you are.  Remember, you are on forums and it's a cesspool of people speaking their mind in any way they can........welcome to the internet.

 Theres a truth to what you say though your missing something.

What I'm talking about, has been released. Peoples opinions have been spoken and the majority, vast majority approved of Mass Effect. Trust me, if it was bad I would've been first to say something. I waited long enough for it afterall? Like we all did.

What I'm saying has sales figures and actual proof to back it up. What the OP is saying, is speculation. If he doesn't like it, then say so, don't say theres some large party with you when people with half an intelligence haven't made up their mind yet, and won't until they play it.

No offense meant OP. I just disagree.

Oh and I bet I can find alot more people who think Bioware will succeed than those who think it will fail.

However, I wouldn't have reacted so if there wasn't such blatent lies in the OP's post about not being in control of your combat in AoC. Please, thats about the only thing it got right. At least give it that.

Besttheiswow

Originally posted by Varny

The great thing about WoW's combat is it flows and just feels right. Everything feels like it is reacting to your input on the keyboard and you always feel in control. Games like Age of Conan on the other hand have tried too much with the animation and quite often you don't feel in control of your character. I mean doing attacks you have to wait for the animation to finish before you see the next one. I don't want that because it doesn't match my own input. Also you character seems to move off the centre of the screen and you're trying to move your character to the left and instead they'll still animating and moving to the right, it just feels like you're fighting with the character. Also with WoW you're moving about and it is flowing, like you're trying to make them miss by move too far or behind them. You just don't get that amazing type of combat with other MMOs where you just stand still and hit hotkeys.

What I've seen from Bioware so far is you stand still and hit hotkeys (in Kotor) and it takes animation before the function. The combat is just slow and clumsy because of this and isn't any fun. Also though this combat wouldn't match PVP making it really a PVE game and then everyone would just go back to Wow and SWTOR will fail. Also we've seen poor clumsy combat in BG2 which is just the old skool isometric style. I can't really fault this though because it was more of the times back then for these types of RPGs. Then we've seen the subpar third person shooter mechanics of the Mass Effect games. They just feel really poor and aren't any fun at all, no meat to the shooting and the AI sucks too much for a shooter.

 

So Bioware haven't ever done a good combat system IMO and so it is likely they'll screw this game up with a bad one too. Everything we've seen so far they haven't shown us anything of the MMO yet. We've seen aload of Single Player footage but nothing that makes an MMO an MMO. So in all the trailers the characters are standing still and the animation seems what they're focusing on. Until we see 40 odd people in the same fight, I guess we wont know.

Thats the same i feel with wow..the combat is responsive, feels right..its the most awsome combat iv played in an mmo...

Maverz290

Originally posted by Besttheiswow

Originally posted by Varny

The great thing about WoW's combat is it flows and just feels right. Everything feels like it is reacting to your input on the keyboard and you always feel in control. Games like Age of Conan on the other hand have tried too much with the animation and quite often you don't feel in control of your character. I mean doing attacks you have to wait for the animation to finish before you see the next one. I don't want that because it doesn't match my own input. Also you character seems to move off the centre of the screen and you're trying to move your character to the left and instead they'll still animating and moving to the right, it just feels like you're fighting with the character. Also with WoW you're moving about and it is flowing, like you're trying to make them miss by move too far or behind them. You just don't get that amazing type of combat with other MMOs where you just stand still and hit hotkeys.

What I've seen from Bioware so far is you stand still and hit hotkeys (in Kotor) and it takes animation before the function. The combat is just slow and clumsy because of this and isn't any fun. Also though this combat wouldn't match PVP making it really a PVE game and then everyone would just go back to Wow and SWTOR will fail. Also we've seen poor clumsy combat in BG2 which is just the old skool isometric style. I can't really fault this though because it was more of the times back then for these types of RPGs. Then we've seen the subpar third person shooter mechanics of the Mass Effect games. They just feel really poor and aren't any fun at all, no meat to the shooting and the AI sucks too much for a shooter.

 

So Bioware haven't ever done a good combat system IMO and so it is likely they'll screw this game up with a bad one too. Everything we've seen so far they haven't shown us anything of the MMO yet. We've seen aload of Single Player footage but nothing that makes an MMO an MMO. So in all the trailers the characters are standing still and the animation seems what they're focusing on. Until we see 40 odd people in the same fight, I guess we wont know.

Thats the same i feel with wow..the combat is responsive, feels right..its the most awsome combat iv played in an mmo...

 So you guys want a combat system where you can fire all your abilities and it doesn't look like your doing so? No thanks, stay in WoW if you want that. It's unpractical to think a jedi can do a master strike, fire lightning, parry blocks and force jump all at the same time.

 It's more plausible that you fire attack, wait for the attack to finish, then fire the next. Thats what you'd have to do if you ever fought in real life. You can't uppercut, roundhouse, tornado kick and headbut in the space of two seconds. Well, maybe Chuck Norris can but you can't.

EDIT: Also, immersion seems to be big on the Bioware table of priorities. Which is why they want it to look good, it makes you believe that the person weilding that lightsaber is a trained jedi knight, and not an MMO avatar.

Electriceye

Originally posted by Varny

The great thing about WoW's combat is it flows and just feels right. Everything feels like it is reacting to your input on the keyboard and you always feel in control. Games like Age of Conan on the other hand have tried too much with the animation and quite often you don't feel in control of your character. I mean doing attacks you have to wait for the animation to finish before you see the next one. I don't want that because it doesn't match my own input. Also you character seems to move off the centre of the screen and you're trying to move your character to the left and instead they'll still animating and moving to the right, it just feels like you're fighting with the character. Also with WoW you're moving about and it is flowing, like you're trying to make them miss by move too far or behind them. You just don't get that amazing type of combat with other MMOs where you just stand still and hit hotkeys.

I 100% agree with your 1rst paragraph and I always say the same, I get the same feeling as well. No other game has come close to WoW's combat fluidity, responsiveness, character movement, and it indeed feels just right and you feel like you're 100% in control of your character.

I'm playing Aion atm and its combat is way better than any other game released since WoW, you do feel like you're in control of your char, but again WoW is on another level entirely IMO.

Combat is a huge part of most MMOs, and I don't feel assured when looking at some game play videos of TOR. I'm aware it's going to change for the better 'cause it still has time, but the engine plays a huge part in that.

I realise we're a minority who feels the difference, but if the combat isn't relatively fluid and smooth, I'll only be sticking around for the storyline, just like other Bioware games. I agree that compared to the overall quality of previous games, the combat was the only element which really felt underwhelming and not up to par with other elements in the game.