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WoW is not an MMORPG
UknownAspect
Member Posts: 277
I know, I know, ridiculous claim, but hear me out. In the raw sense of the term "MMORPG", yes WoW and its ilk fall into that category.
But where the glaring difference comes in, is in the ideals of what an MMO should be. MMOs, since their inception have really been pushing the boundaries with gameplay and bridging the gap between player and developer. These worlds, embodied in these games, exist to be conquered by the playerbase. It started with adventuring together in groups, to solving puzzles together, defeating bosses together. Then comes along crafting, social scheduling, interaction with different groups (guild politics), and PvP.
Every new game, every different feature is pushing this genre forward by giving the player more power, more custimization, more individuality among different game types.
An MMORPG is a game that exists solely as a world for players to shape. Player interaction between themselves, the game world, and each other are integral to what makes an MMO an MMO.
Games like WoW and other PVE focused games are infantile MMOs, not TRUE MMOs. The sandbox games are the closest. Games like EVE, Darkfall, Wurm, Love, etc. allow the players to change the course of the game. Individuals, not developers. YES there can be story in a sandbox, WHY is there no hybrid MMO. With EVE's reintroduction to live events putting more steps into advancing stories depending on player input, we are taking mosre steps to advance the culture of MMOs and player involvement.
This is what makes an MMO an MMO, the players with the power.
MMOs played: Horizons, Auto Assault, Ryzom, EVE, WAR, WoW, EQ2, LotRO, GW, DAoC, Aion, Requiem, Atlantica, DDO, Allods, Earth Eternal, Fallen Earth, Rift
Willing to try anything new
Comments
You made a mistake there. WoW is a true MMO in every sense. Little games have the sense of Massive Multiplayer Online with 11 million ppl.
Now, I agree wow is not an RPG anymore, since theres little Roleplay in this game. Theres actually no sense of Roleplay or what it truthfully means.
Either way, wow is a great MMO, a good adventure/raiding game, but not an RPG, that I agree
You seem to confuse MMO, wich is a massive multiplayer game, with an RPG, wich is a game where players have a roll on things to come and how the world develops
What a bunch of nonsense. A game is either an mmorpg or it isn't. An mmorpg can't be more mmorpg than another game.
an mmo is a game that has a massive amount of people playing in the same gameworld. The actual gameplay mechanics have nothing to do whether a game is an mmo or not.
There are different kinds of mmorpgs with different designs. A sanbox design is in no way superior to a pve themed mmorpg like WoW uses.
He seems to confuse 'virtual worlds' with MMOs which might overlap but are not the same. MMOs are games and as such focus on 'playing' rather than living in a virtual setting.
As far as the RPG part goes that really depends on where you are coming. WoW is definetly an RPG in the video game sense but not in the pen-and-paper sense. Personally, I roleplay all the time in WoW, just that I prefer to keep it in my head rather than sharing it with people over chat.
I think the very definition of mmorpg's are changeing. People don't even associate the rpg part as roll playing anymore. It seems to be more of an assciaton with online games in which you level up a character nowadays. The games are changing, the customer base is changing and they are developing into something an mmo vet who played eq or uo would have problems with and understandibly feel disalusioned with, as we can see here on a daily bases. Developers will go where they think the largest ammount of money can be made and as long as there are new customers willing to spend money on the said project, they will continue to develop in that direction. I don't feel the old days are ever going to come back and while that is sad, surely that leaves some expectation that something new and brilliant could be just around the corner that in turn will take the industry into a totaly new area. These are just my opinions and I am often compleatly wrong. Just throwing it out there. Also on the subject of hybrid games. Fallen Earth must fall into that category, or be one of the closest things to it?
ok
To flame or not to flame, that 'tis the question..
If you feel the need to make yourself feel more intelligent or a better person by putting down games that you don't like, play or that are different from your view of an 'ideal" MMO go ahead.. Blizzard can show you a good $150 million reasons monthly that you are dead wrong.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
I wish I had not spent the time to read this. What a complete load of garbage...
Of course WoW is an MMORPG. The fact that you don't personally like it or don't like the whole themepark MMO sub-genre has nothing to do with what type of game it is.
Let's examine the definition of the term:
Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games (MMORPGs) are a genre of computer role-playing games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual world.
As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a fictional character (often in a fantasy world) and take control over many of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world, usually hosted by the game's publisher, which continues to exist and evolve while the player is away from the game.
Thats really all it comes down to. If any game fits that description, it can be called an MMORPG. Whether or not they are sandbox or allow things like player housing is completely irrelevant.
The problem with the OP here is that it merely reflects an opinion of a single player (possibly others, but ultiamtely, he wa the one writing those thoughts). Who said an MMORPG is supposed to be shaped by the players? Why not a world that is meant to be conquered? MMORPG isn't a rigid definition by all means, in fact, its amongst the loosest ever used.
I agree with an article a while back in regards to a panel done in Austin, the term MMO is dead. What defines an MMO from one person to another is so vastly different, it was just there to describe a set of games, very loosely, nothing more. There is so much flexibility with it that it gives off so many different tones with different people. It cuold even be used as a marketing ploy in such cases as "Oh this isn't just an MMO, we're starting a new brand of MMO called Super Massive Multiplayer Ultimate Online Experience (SMMUOE)". Obviously, it could only work if target audience falls for it, but you know what I mean.
Let's not get caught up on the term and its ideals bcause the ideals itself is a matter of opinions. We cannot even describe MMO's and waht is or isn't an MMO, trying to capture a set of ideals that captures this notions is like trying to take another step beyond what we cannot even define.
WoW has a goal and gets that goal done. It has worlds that accomodate multiple players (many many many of them) that like to beat the crap out of things in a variety of different ways. It provides a place for social interaction and being able to work for or against others. So, honestly, in the end...what do ideals have to do with any of this?
I find it hard to call it one either, but has enough to pass as one, and I’m sure that was the point why Blizzard made it the way it is, cha-chang on subscriptions. Welcome to the world of lazy and greedy development. But think if it had been yet another pure-RPG or RTS, it would have just been pirated to death. So, you get that same exp squashing what mmo is but they stay in business.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
I'm not a wow player nor have I ever been but I will say your lack logic behind your comment. If lazy development and greediness sold the game to 10 million subscribers... wtf happend to all the other games that came out trying to compete and couldn't hold any subs. See most games following wow duplicated it's simplicity and overall demeanor yet none of them had shit on WoW. So regardless to your personal hatred and jealousy ... your opinion is flawed as WoW obviously offered a better experience to more people than any game you play ever did.
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
While there are lots of things about WoW and its playerbase to be critical of, I can't see why it would not be a mmorpg, by any accepted definition.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Exactly. There is so much more content in WOW than any other game on the market and every aspect of it is polished to near perfection.
I don't even play the game anymore, but I feel the need to defend it when people say this type of thing. Its just foolish and completely ridiculous.
op i am 100% with you on this eve will be the closest any can call to the gamer definition of a mmo.
the list of game that can brag about that without getting into a flamewar with the player is very short(insanelly short)
Fixed.
I think you and the OP just need to re-word your argument. You have not been able to show how WOW is not an MMORPG by any accepted definition... You are basically just saying you don't like it. That's fine... everyone is entitled to their opinion.
But don't argue definitions unless you are actually ready to do so logically.
It's not foolish, not to mmo players, only to off-line or multi-player RPG players which is much of what Blizzard pulled from their already established player-base. They have been doing this stuff for years, just moving it to an mmo form, but still using linear gameplay and multi-player experiences. But like I said, enough mmo to make you pay monthly, though in many respects it negates it, as multi-player and mmo does not co-exist well in the same game format. If they had made it purely multi-player like their other games, well in today’s torrented world, they would never generated enough money to pay labor costs to increase development.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
and for those saying wow is massive!there is one thing a game need to be massive (in the gamer view)
it needs to be able to have massive amount of player on one map
eve has had that for years.wow also has that on paper .but on paper only because of one fact .they twisted the meaning!how ?
easy .on paper full server can be in a fight in front of sw lets put lower number lets put it at an easy 1500
eve can reach that (with one server not 50 or more)
last time athene tried they crashed the server .wow just couldnt support the number.
blizzard twisted the meaning of mmo in this fashion,yes in theory map can support massive fight but blizzard put some candy where they knew would releive pressure from their server.so try to find 1500 player anywhere in the world of warcraft
you wont because they are mainly where blizzard sent them in instance.so what use is a paper saying blizzard can take 1500 player on one map if the reward arent there to prove it!the reason is simple it hasnt been a mmo since the beginning of bc!
vanilla wow was a mmo!true!BUT IT ISNT ANYMORE!
^^ This
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
Grats OP, you've actually managed to get a few to buy into your argument.
Here's to bumping stupid threads!
they cant even have instance of 1500 lol(wow)
so wow might call itself a mmo but every gamer knows that eve is the true representation of what is a mmo in the view of gamer
Guess what? I'm a gamer that played both WoW and EvE, and while one is a themepark and one a sandbox, both are mmos from my view.
But bottom line is, they should have just made it into something like GuildWars from the start. I think they would if they could, like DDO did, but they added too much mmo into it from the start, even though it became more instanced over time. But then they can instance and ride high on full sub costs, so win-win for them.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
Got to bump AvatarBlade. What are you trying to say here DrB? that anybody who doesn not agree with you is not a gamer? Played both games, Love both games. Both games are mmomrpgs.
I still play both. Granted I play EVE more now, it's simply because I've done all there is to do in WoW at it's current status. Looking forward to Cataclysm to see how the world I am ~7 years familiar with has changed.
But yeah, BOTH are MMO's. However to compare which is better than the other is like comparing apples to oranges, or Legos to Lincoln Logs. Comparing a sandbox to a theme park ALWAYS boils down to which is better sandbox or themepark..
Wanna compare WoW to something, compare it to LoTRO.. Wanna compare EVE with something, compare it w/ Darkfall.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
Why does WoW inspire such strong passion in people?
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Find out for yourself. WoW has a ten day free trial.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
one reason!vanilla wow was our game!