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WoW is not an MMORPG

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  • GylfiGylfi Member UncommonPosts: 708

    I totally agree with the OP, i'm so glad to see more and more people see the contradiction of playing a single player anti-social experience with SOLO quests and missions and ssolitary tory-lines and call this an MMO.

    It's not different tastes, it's just crazy to play a SOLO experience in a virtual persistant world

    More and more players realize this and are starting to demand gameplay mechanics that make them protagonists of that world, really able to interact with it and change it while they're socializing with everyone.

    The dark ages might be coming to an end.

    penguintuxin: Agree with everything but don't call WoW simulation. Simulations are by definition attempts to recreate reality. A simulation MMO is something like Ultima Online and Mortal Online which attempt to simulate every aspect of a believable fantasy society. WoW is nothing but a single-player game with linear story, linear gameplay, and linear boss fights with your buddies.

  • jonrd463jonrd463 Member UncommonPosts: 607

    OP, you could have just said "WoW isn't a MMORPG because it isn't full loot PvP" and your point would have been made. It would have been incorrect, but made nonetheless.

    "You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous

  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433

    You make way too much assumptions on what the term MMO should mean, as it has come to gather so many games around the term and you could go on forever argueing why you are right and the rest is wrong, I think this debate is simply useless.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

    You make way too much assumptions on what the term MMO should mean, as it has come to gather so many games around the term and you could go on forever argueing why you are right and the rest is wrong, I think this debate is simply useless.

    You do have a point. The debate should be: What is a MMORPG?

    Once we agree on that we can discuss if Wow is one or not. But it is pointless as long as everyone have different opinions on what a MMO really is.

  • GylfiGylfi Member UncommonPosts: 708

    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

    You make way too much assumptions on what the term MMO should mean, as it has come to gather so many games around the term and you could go on forever argueing why you are right and the rest is wrong, I think this debate is simply useless.

    You must at least agree that a MMO is a virtual world, persistantly online, with hundreds of people.

    Before i continue, will you agree with this definition?

  • MuridanMuridan Member Posts: 94

    The problem with this argument is that the playerbase for these types of games have a nasty habit of believing that their playstyle/preference is the only playstyle/preference that matters, and therefore is the "right" playstyle/preference and anyone who disagrees simply doesn't know what they are talking about.

    Examples:

    The PvE VS PvP crowds.

    The "Sandbox" VS  Instanced crowds

    The Sci-fi VS Fantasy crowds

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by Gylf

    You must at least agree that a MMO is a virtual world, persistantly online, with hundreds of people.

    Before i continue, will you agree with this definition?

    What about games that only have hundreds of people in certain hubs, like Guildwars?

    Wow is going that way too.

    Funny enough is Guildwars 2 going in the opposite direction trying to create a dynamic world which changes due to the players actions... 

    Is a dynamic world a MMO, or a static one where everything always is the same for that matter?

  • GylfiGylfi Member UncommonPosts: 708

    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Anyone who doesn't play the type of MMO I prefer, especially the MMO that I play, is doing it wrong.

    Hey! God dambit, STOP HAVING FUN WHEN YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

     

    I don't see what's wrong with that. Pigs may have fun swimming in their shit. But if you were God, you would give 'em a brain to form conscience.

    This would make pigs stop swimming in the shit. They wouldn't have fun anymore, they would SEARCH for greater goals.

    The search is more important, "having fun" means you stopped searching and are happy with the shit you swim in. That's not good.

    "Having fun" without thinking whether you can have MORe means that you yourself became a pig.

    The guy to the left trying to call those people might be God, or their conscience, trying to pull them to better goals.

  • DerWotanDerWotan Member Posts: 1,012

    Games like Wow are MMO's not MMORPG's. MMORPG's are about freedom, customization, challenge and creating your own world. Most post 2005 games are a linear MMO with a destinated route to go, overusing of instances, handholded by doing stupid questgrind over and over again till you're hitting max level.

    MMORPG's on the other hand are about the journey from day one! Take Darkfall I'm having a blast since day 1 I can participate in everything sure you'll get hammered in no time but the ability is there also we - the players - are able to make our own content with own politics. You can't do this in a linear MMO. Looking back at Everquest 1 there was no destinated route to go only a huge world filled with different mobs not knowing the exact level and no freaking minimap and type markers you had to draw one by your own.

    Pre 2005 there has been a good amount of games having the right formula between "sandbox and themepark style" Daoc, Everquest 1, FF VI, Asherons Call.

    conclusion: we need more MMORPG's less MMO's. Note I'm not saying people that likes MMO's are wrong its just theres are huge difference between MMORPG's and MMO's and the gap has never ever been bigger than nowadays.

    We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!

    "Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
    "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564

    Originally posted by Gylfi

    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Anyone who doesn't play the type of MMO I prefer, especially the MMO that I play, is doing it wrong.

    Hey! God dambit, STOP HAVING FUN WHEN YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

     

    I don't see what's wrong with that. Pigs may have fun swimming in their shit. But if you were God, you would give 'em a brain to form conscience.

    This would make pigs stop swimming in the shit. They wouldn't have fun anymore, they would SEARCH for greater goals.

    The search is more important, "having fun" means you stopped searching and are happy with the shit you swim in. That's not good.

    "Having fun" without thinking whether you can have MORe means that you yourself became a pig.

    The guy to the left trying to call those people might be God, or their conscience, trying to pull them to better goals.

    Umm... so finding something that you have fun in means you have stopped searching for something better? In your view, "having fun" = "complacency"?

    That's some pretty absurd logic.

    So, when people go to, say, an amusement park, they get on their favorite roller-coaster and are having a blast... they're only "having fun" because they've stopped searching for something better? It's not possible that they simply... *enjoy* that particular roller coaster for what it is?

    I think what you're thinking of is people "settling" on something and considering it "good enough". In that context, I think you could reasonably say they've ceased looking for something better and, though not the most ideal, have settled on what they're doing as "close enough".

    The fact that a person is enjoying themself and having fun doing something means they have found something that - in some way - provides them the entertainment they were seeking... else they wouldn't be "having fun".

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • warmaster670warmaster670 Member Posts: 1,384

    Originally posted by DerWotan

    Games like Wow are MMO's not MMORPG's. MMORPG's are about freedom, customization, challenge and creating your own world. Most post 2005 games are a linear MMO with a destinated route to go, handholded by doing stupid questgrind over and over again till you're hitting max level.

    yup damm those massivley multiplayer onlines, there just awful, oh no wait there all MMORPGs whether you personally like them or not, apparently you need to learn what rpg stands for, heres a hint, it doesnt stand for world building.

    Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
    Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  • GylfiGylfi Member UncommonPosts: 708

    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Gylf

    You must at least agree that a MMO is a virtual world, persistantly online, with hundreds of people.

    Before i continue, will you agree with this definition?

    What about games that only have hundreds of people in certain hubs, like Guildwars?

    Wow is going that way too.

    Funny enough is Guildwars 2 going in the opposite direction trying to create a dynamic world which changes due to the players actions... 

    Is a dynamic world a MMO, or a static one where everything always is the same for that matter?

    That's FINE, GW is an MMO. It has hundreds of people playing simultaneously, the world is persistant and all.

    Plz just answer the question.

  • GylfiGylfi Member UncommonPosts: 708

    Originally posted by WSIMike

    Originally posted by Gylfi


    Originally posted by Malcanis

    Anyone who doesn't play the type of MMO I prefer, especially the MMO that I play, is doing it wrong.

    Hey! God dambit, STOP HAVING FUN WHEN YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

     

    I don't see what's wrong with that. Pigs may have fun swimming in their shit. But if you were God, you would give 'em a brain to form conscience.

    This would make pigs stop swimming in the shit. They wouldn't have fun anymore, they would SEARCH for greater goals.

    The search is more important, "having fun" means you stopped searching and are happy with the shit you swim in. That's not good.

    "Having fun" without thinking whether you can have MORe means that you yourself became a pig.

    The guy to the left trying to call those people might be God, or their conscience, trying to pull them to better goals.

    Umm... so finding something that you have fun in means you have stopped searching for something better? In your view, "having fun" = "complacency"?

    That's some pretty absurd logic.

    I think what you're thinking of is people "settling" on something and considering it "good enough". In that context, I think you could reasonably say they've ceased looking for something better and, though not the most ideal, have settled on what they're doing as "close enough".

    The fact that a person is enjoying themself and having fun doing something means they have found something that - in some way - provides them the entertainment they were seeking... else they wouldn't be "having fun".

    People settling on something and considering it fun enuff to NEVER want anything more than that.

    Exactly what's the problem with many here, no? They think what WoW gives is the most they can ever have, so they stopped searching, and "just have fun".

    YEs that's what i meant and it's bad. Someone has to wake them up, make em realize they can have more off a MMO.

    I can enjoy myself doing something "fun" but knowing i can have more, because im not blind unlike these people here, i go search for more. While, yes, these people have stopped searching, they "have fun", that's enuff. That's what being pigs swimming in shit is all about.

  • thorwoodthorwood Member Posts: 485

    News flash!  WoW is and always has been a MMORPG.

     

    Stop trying to push your preferred style of MMO as the only game in town.  All of us are individuals with our own personal likes and dislikes.

  • DerWotanDerWotan Member Posts: 1,012

    Originally posted by warmaster670

    Originally posted by DerWotan

    Games like Wow are MMO's not MMORPG's. MMORPG's are about freedom, customization, challenge and creating your own world. Most post 2005 games are a linear MMO with a destinated route to go, handholded by doing stupid questgrind over and over again till you're hitting max level.

    yup damm those massivley multiplayer onlines, there just awful, oh no wait there all MMORPGs whether you personally like them or not, apparently you need to learn what rpg stands for, heres a hint, it doesnt stand for world building.

     

    No they aren't. I doesn't matter if I like them or not there IS a difference between MMO's and MMORPG's maybe you'll understand it that way:

     

    MMORPG's: EvE, Darkfall, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest 1, Utlima Online, Lineage, FF VI, Vanguard

    MMO's: World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online, Lord of the Rings, Aion (great game), Tabula Rasa, Hellgate London.

    MMOIG's (multi massive online instanced games): Age of Conan, Star Trek Online, Champions Online

    We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!

    "Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
    "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564

    Originally posted by tryklon

    You made a mistake there. WoW is a true MMO in every sense. Little games have the sense of Massive Multiplayer Online with 11 million ppl.

    Now, I agree wow is not an RPG anymore, since theres little Roleplay in this game. Theres actually no sense of Roleplay or what it truthfully means.

    Either way, wow is a great MMO, a good adventure/raiding game, but not an RPG, that I agree

     

    You seem to confuse MMO, wich is a massive multiplayer game, with an RPG, wich is  a game where players have a roll on things to come and how the world develops

    I agree with the WoW statement. I stopped calling it a MMORPG a while ago. It's a MMO Action Game as far as I'm concerned, as they've removed or otherwise demoted anything 'RPG' in it.

    That's neither good nor bad... it just is. People enjoy the game and so it's delivering on what they want. I enjoy it when I'm in that "mode". But, for me, it lacks too much of what would make it a true RPG - to me - for me to call it one.

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • GylfiGylfi Member UncommonPosts: 708

    Originally posted by thorwood

    News flash!  WoW is and always has been a MMORPG.

     

    Stop trying to push your preferred style of MMO as the only game in town.  All of us are individuals with our own personal likes and dislikes.

    Sure, you can like to eat poo. I can't tell you anything. But it's objectively bad.

  • vladakovvladakov Member Posts: 710

    Originally posted by tryklon

    You made a mistake there. WoW is a true MMO in every sense. Little games have the sense of Massive Multiplayer Online with 11 million ppl.

    Now, I agree wow is not an RPG anymore, since theres little Roleplay in this game. Theres actually no sense of Roleplay or what it truthfully means.

    Either way, wow is a great MMO, a good adventure/raiding game, but not an RPG, that I agree

     

    You seem to confuse MMO, wich is a massive multiplayer game, with an RPG, wich is  a game where players have a roll on things to come and how the world develops

     

     

    on EU realms, the Argent Dawn and the Earthern Ring there is PLENTY of roleplaying to be found. just gotta know the right RP or RP-PVP realms..

    image

  • warmaster670warmaster670 Member Posts: 1,384

    Originally posted by DerWotan

    Originally posted by warmaster670


    Originally posted by DerWotan

    Games like Wow are MMO's not MMORPG's. MMORPG's are about freedom, customization, challenge and creating your own world. Most post 2005 games are a linear MMO with a destinated route to go, handholded by doing stupid questgrind over and over again till you're hitting max level.

    yup damm those massivley multiplayer onlines, there just awful, oh no wait there all MMORPGs whether you personally like them or not, apparently you need to learn what rpg stands for, heres a hint, it doesnt stand for world building.

     

    No they aren't. I doesn't matter if I like them or not there IS a difference between MMO's and MMORPG's maybe you'll understand it that way:

     

    MMORPG's: EvE, Darkfall, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest 1, Utlima Online, Lineage, FF VI, Vanguard

    MMO's: World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online, Lord of the Rings, Aion (great game), Tabula Rasa, Hellgate London.

    MMOIG's (multi massive online instanced games): Age of Conan, Star Trek Online, Champions Online

    Again, just ebcause you dont like it doesnt suddenly change its genre, its an mmorpg, get over it, mmo isnt a genre, its short for MMORPG, always has been.

     

    massivley multiplayer online isnt a genre, sad that i need to keep saying this.

    Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
    Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  • Jairoe03Jairoe03 Member Posts: 732


    Originally posted by WSIMike

    I agree with the WoW statement. I stopped calling it a MMORPG a while ago. It's a MMO Action Game as far as I'm concerned, as they've removed or otherwise demoted anything 'RPG' in it.
    That's neither good nor bad... it just is. People enjoy the game and so it's delivering on what they want. I enjoy it when I'm in that "mode". But, for me, it lacks too much of what would make it a true RPG - to me - for me to call it one.

    That's exactly what I been getting at on the first page. What's it matter what it really is called? Changing the "genre" that people want to confine it within isn't going to change what WoW actually is. Ultimately, its a game, for other people's entertainment. The genre just loosely defines the category that it does belong to, but just because we choose to stop calling it an RPG and start calling it an Action Game doesn't mean the game is all of a sudden going to work differently.

    I think people are just too hung up on the semantics and "ideals" of it all when in the end, WoW is a game for many to enjoy all at once.


  • Originally posted by Gylfi

    Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

    You make way too much assumptions on what the term MMO should mean, as it has come to gather so many games around the term and you could go on forever argueing why you are right and the rest is wrong, I think this debate is simply useless.

    You must at least agree that a MMO is a virtual world, persistantly online, with hundreds of people.

    Before i continue, will you agree with this definition?

     That definition applies to BFBC2, MW2, guild wars, and D2 just as much as WOW.  Funny thing is all these people saying wow is a full fledged mmo would tar and feather your mom for suggesting that D2 is just as much a mmo as wow is.  The fact is that WOW is more like D2 than a full-fledged mmo.  Sure, wow has seamless land (which of course is useless once you've leveled there), but your leveling and end game consists of nearly the same exact elements, although admittedly much more up to date than D2's end-game (and imo not nearly as fun due to bop).

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856

    Originally posted by spookydom

    Originally posted by drbaltazar

    then we will have to add a word to split wow from eve

    dont get me wrong wow is a great multiplayer gamer

    but i consider eve a good massive multiplayer game

    i wish i knew a word to add to eve mmo to make sure poeple didnt say they are in the same boat but frankly i dont know what word could be added to mmo.mmmo(nha that suck lol)like i say wow had it in the original wow but they lost it at their first expension!its sad!

    Have to be honest with you here DrB. I get what your saying, I think everybody who has looked at this thread gets what you are saying. Not sure if you do as you seem to keep making the same point.  Unfortunatly nobody made you the game genre definig grand master. Eve and WoW are not the same kind of game. I am sure they never wanted to be. Yet they both fall under the bubble of mmorpgs.  I'm sorry a game you don't like in its current form is assosiated with one that you do. But that is just the way it is. It's not up to you to decide for everybody else.

    you are right!this means gamer will have to be more carefull then ever!so that they really play the mmo they want !since almost all game can be defined as mmo now a day!the only winner in all this is the free to play games!with all the good info we had on this tread ,i got to say in the end i dont think iam willing to buy another p2p game anymore.i have accepted that the mmo genre is broad and not really defined but one thing i dont have to do is buy a game and pay monthly fee when i can go test f2p game till i find the one that suits me (for free)your post spookydom truelly made me think sideways.it might seem same stuff other had said but you posted it differently.ho i dont like it because in my view blizzard should have done like a lot of poster (thinking similarly as me)mentionned blizz should have done.but like  a lot of the other say!why bother!so f2p it will be for me!

  • GylfiGylfi Member UncommonPosts: 708

     

    WoW is persistantly online world and theorically there's hundreds of people simultaneously. It's an MMO.

    But here's the paradox:

    1) - you never play with people during quests, because level-progression is a solitary experience. And you play with 10 people during raids and they're your real-life buddies.

    2) - You never even play in the openworld because many of the features are infact in an instanced separated server. Making it seem like the open-world is actually a LOBBY, like in Counterstrike or Quake3.

    In WoW you don't HAVE to socialize with strangers, with "community", you are invited to be anti-social and isolate yourself with real-life friends. This is why WoW is not REALLY a MMO.

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564

    Originally posted by Gylfi

     

    People settling on something and considering it fun enuff to NEVER want anything more than that.

    Exactly what's the problem with many here, no? They think what WoW gives is the most they can ever have, so they stopped searching, and "just have fun".

    Well certainly *to you* that's their problem... but you don't know that. You can't know that. You're doing what's called projection - taking a view you have and applying it to others. Problem is,  you're projecting on to people whose rationales, opinions and sense of enjoyment you can't possibly know. And you have no basis, other than your own "hunch" to back any of it up. It's pure unmitigated presumption.

    To put it another way...

    Have you done any kind of survey actually *asking* a portion of players if they truly enjoy WoW? Have you *asked* them if they believe there are better games for them (not you) out there, in their opinion (not yours) than WoW? Have you *asked* them if they stick with WoW even though they believe there's something better out there? Have you *asked* them why they do so? It could be because they have a lot of friends who play WoW and the enjoyment they have comes from hanging out with those friends. Short of having done something of a survey, covering all bases, you can not possibly know why people are still playing WoW or what their views of it are, or why they are still playing it.

    What you are putting forth here is complete unmitigated and unsupported presumption.

    YEs that's what i meant and it's bad. Someone has to wake them up, make em realize they can have more off a MMO. 

    Well now... That's a tad arrogant, isn't it. Someone has to "wake them up"? To what? The fact that they don't share your opinions of a given game which you seem to believe everyone else is obligated to agree with, or they're somehow "asleep"? Get over yourself.

    I can enjoy myself doing something "fun" but knowing i can have more, because im not blind unlike these people here, i go search for more. While, yes, these people have stopped searching, they "have fun", that's enuff.

    So now they're "blind" because they - according to your baseless generalizations of them - don't fit into this mindset that you've decided to project on them. So you're presumptious, arrogant *and* insulting. Nice combo.

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • Jairoe03Jairoe03 Member Posts: 732


    Originally posted by zaxxon23

     That definition applies to BFBC2, MW2, guild wars, and D2 just as much as WOW.  Funny thing is all these people saying wow is a full fledged mmo would tar and feather your mom for suggesting that D2 is just as much a mmo as wow is.  The fact is that WOW is more like D2 than a full-fledged mmo.  Sure, wow has seamless land (which of course is useless once you've leveled there), but your leveling and end game consists of nearly the same exact elements, although admittedly much more up to date than D2's end-game (and imo not nearly as fun due to bop).

    That's completely wrong. A single instance of D2 will not hold hundreds of players at once and its persistence doesn't go beyond its own characters. When persistence is brought up, we're talking in regards to worlds (or at least I am).

    Sure we can take things to extremes but in the end there is somewhat of a line that keeps games on one end of the other. Same for any shooter server where I haven't seen one go above the 60s.

    There's a huge difference playing in an environment with tens of people and an environment with hundreds/thousands of people at once. GW is arguable in terms of what MMO is and even I don't have a clear opinion on that one since I can see where both sides do get at.

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