Developer Speaks out against PvP Guild

Kyleran

Originally posted by epicor

Originally posted by Kyleran

hahahahaha.  vinter +1

@the naysayers:  Griefing as an end is futile, ignorant and demoralizing.  Griefing as a means to instigate clan warfare,  server unity and player interaction is not.  Learn to tell the difference and you may find whole new avenues of gaming become available.

Sadly, the two are pretty indistiguishable and more often than not, griefing is done for its own sake, and not some sort of noble purpose.

Speaking of PVP, I prefer mine has a purpose, a goal, a reason to occur, otherwise leave me the hell alone in my games.

I have to question whether you read, and understood my post.  As you said, a purpose.  Like clan warfare, server unity and player interaction...?

I have to question whether you understand what a reasonable purpose in a game is. Such as holding a keep, fortress, territory or zone.  Your goals don't appeal to me. I could care less about server unity, unless we're talking faction vs faction, player interaction is much more enjoyable when cooperating with each other rather than facing off against antagonists.

Stop trying to sugar coat your griefing in a coat of positives, doesn't work for me.

 

emota

Well done the devs!!!

 

Hoorah!

Spiritof55

Originally posted by Kyleran

I had missed this game, thanks for pointing it out.

As for the OP, looks like its good riddance to bad rubbish.

PVP is one thing, griefing behavior has little in common with it.

imo pvp is used as an excuse for griefing

there are many who don't see a line between the two, for those idiots pvp = griefing

pvp = no rules = anything goes = griefing

Rohn

Originally posted by Ashlura

Its only the people attempting to fight for carebear land that are arguing the points for the developers.

We arent griefers. I just wont kick people from the Guild because they choose to do it. We dont run Corpse Camping events, but I can tell you, the best way to start a fight is to mess with people. This is when they call in the troops.

 

Why look for a fight, when you can bring one to you?

 

It's simple gaming. For those that say you have played this and that, obviously you have stuck with the lighter side of things in those games. You gank, to inspire others Guildies to come fight for their people. This is how you get Guild vs Guild in World PvP. Deal with it.

 

My post here wasnt meant for drama, it was meant to spread the word. There arent many RPrs left in the World. I havent even played the game yet, but based off of what the dev said to me, yeah, the game will fail. I will resurrect this post later when it does To meet todays needs, you HAVE to meet the needs of all player types. 

 

Gaming, Griefing, Corpse Camping = All is fair in love and war.

 

Hate me all you want, but without me, the world is boring. Without threat from another player coming around the corner the game feels dull. Without someone to get your adrenaline pumping, the game will lose its luster. If all you want is a safe haven, you might as well play a console game. Just saying.

 

What's funny is that everyone that responded here is over there too. No one else even gives a shit. But when the games FAQ catches their eye like it did mine, then they will see my post and:

1) Play it just to make your lives a living hell

2) Not play it which brings no revenue to the developers which eventually leads to shutting down the project

 

Good luck

 

You said it yourself.  A game should try to support the desires of as many player types as possible.

Anarchy only benefits one player type, and precludes other player types from existing.  That has been proven in many other games, time and time again.  It's a recipe for assured failure.

Thus, your own argument is an argument against the "exciting" playstyle you think you bring to the world.  The game may still crash and burn, but that won't be because they limited asshattery in their game.  In fact, such a limitation is a strength if you really are trying to foster multiple playstyles.

epicor

You all still don't seem to understand what exactly we are saying.  You are imaging randoms camping you for hours on end for no reason other than to ruin your day.  While that does occasionally happen, cause, well we can be assholes and make no apologies, it's not our focus.  In simplest terms we are the Americans of the game. If we decide to declare war we don't line up and let the troops fire at will.  We don't send a letter of warning.  We just start killing your players.  We don't care that you were waiting on spawns.  We don't care that you were outnumbered.  We don't care that you were outlevelled.  

Azen77

Originally posted by epicor

You all still don't seem to understand what exactly we are saying.  You are imaging randoms camping you for hours on end for no reason other than to ruin your day.  While that does occasionally happen, cause, well we can be assholes and make no apologies, it's not our focus.  In simplest terms we are the Americans of the game. If we decide to declare war we don't line up and let the troops fire at will.  We don't send a letter of warning.  We just start killing your players.  We don't care that you were waiting on spawns.  We don't care that you were outnumbered.  We don't care that you were outlevelled.  

lol yah i think everyone pretty much understands what you are saying ...especially now.

GrayGhost79

Originally posted by CubeForce

The PM referenced at the start of this thread was sent when a post was removed from this guilds recruitment thread. The post was removed because Ashlura (mmorpg.com username) had lashed out at a number of our community members who did not agree with the guild ideologies. The post was in violation of many forum rules and used very strong language. The recruitment thread was not removed and the admin did not tell them their guild was unwelcome. He simply stated that the response our community was giving him was to be expected considering Aerrevans target audience and he should refrain from lashing out at people who disagree with him in such an extreme manner. Ashlura then decided to withdraw his guild recruitment thread and seems to now believe the developers of Aerrevan are against PvP guilds. PvP is a central component of Aerrevan, we have a number of features designed purely for the PvP market. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and maybe Aerrevan is not right for a greifer guild, but that does not mean that we are anti-pvp. Such a claim is very clearly not based on factual information, but rather the emotions of this community member. If anyone has any further questions regarding our stance on PvP, please feel free to ask them, I will be watching this thread.

 

CubeForce Media - Aerrevan Development Team

 So basically the OP started this thread because he had a little temper tantrum and tried to vent and get someone, anyone to tell him he was in the right without giving the facts. Nothing new, sounds a bit like and angry kid to me. Anyway the thread should have ended with this post lol.

GrayGhost79

I will say this though lol, thanks OP this MMO seemed to fly under my radar and I wouldn't have know about it likely without your little rant. So thanks looks interesting.

MacDeath

I'm one of the beta testers for Aerrevan and I will be focusing a lot of my time in game to PvP,  I enjoy PvP in every game I play.  But I don't grief and I don't like griefers.  The guild charter for the OPs guild says they focus on Rez killing, corpse camping, etc.  Some games allow such activites.  Aerrevan's Devs have suggested that their community is more focused on roleplaying and gankers will be frowned upon.  A griefer guild will see that as "Carebear Land".  I see it as a Dev taking responsability to protect the game and community.  Thanks CubeForce,

Maduo

I would just like to say LOL at this thread XD

Even without the devs saying otherwise, guilds like this are ridiculed publicly anyways, it's just nice to see the devs of a game coming together with the community once in a blue moon.

 

to the griefers go the grief, do the ashes taste good knowing they are coming so close to home?

 

EDIT: is there a way to promote topics like these to headlines? XD

I'd really like to spread this across the entire web

Juulpower

If it was my choice I would have deleted their guild thread immediatly.

We have such a great community and I don't want to see it go downwards with people like those in this guild coming. Not one of them did post an introduction in the introduce yourself section... and that's the least they could do to be 'part of the community'. They don't care for others, they just want to gank others, as their thread states... I don't like them, and I wouldn't like it if the devs say anything about it...

If you just prove your friendliness, if you just try to be part of the community, I won't have problems with you anymore... but looking at the posts you've made so far, I have.

Pashakitty

You know, it's funny. The OP keeps contradicting himself. In one post he says that his guild doesn't corpse camp and in another post he says they do. If you really want the base info on this situation you can read the original thread here and decide for your selves. http://www.aerrevan.com/forum/index.php?topic=812.msg9351#new They whine about Aerrevan not being fair to PvPers while insulting the folks who have been in the forum all along, both PvPers and non PvPers and when someone gives them the same in return they simply run off to another forum and whine and complain.

Then when they don't get the support that they're looking for in the other forum they try to turn around what they stand for and make it sound altruistic. If you want to know what they are all about simply read their guild charter. It also looks like the OP in the Aerrevan thread this came from has removed any of his posts that bragged about corps camping, I for one know that he had a post stating that they specifically look for people mob hunting and gank them then corpse camp. But as some would say, no screen shot no proof. Just goes to show that the group that claims to not care what others think must actually give a darn after all or they wouldn't delete their posts that make them look bad.

In my opinion, (and it's only my opinion) corpse camping, rez killing, gankers should go away and only play games with others like themselves and leave the rest of the RPG world alone.

KillSwitch69

Originally posted by Ashlura

Its only the people attempting to fight for carebear land that are arguing the points for the developers.

We arent griefers. I just wont kick people from the Guild because they choose to do it. We dont run Corpse Camping events, but I can tell you, the best way to start a fight is to mess with people. This is when they call in the troops.

 

Why look for a fight, when you can bring one to you?

 

It's simple gaming. For those that say you have played this and that, obviously you have stuck with the lighter side of things in those games. You gank, to inspire others Guildies to come fight for their people. This is how you get Guild vs Guild in World PvP. Deal with it.

 

My post here wasnt meant for drama, it was meant to spread the word. There arent many RPrs left in the World. I havent even played the game yet, but based off of what the dev said to me, yeah, the game will fail. I will resurrect this post later when it does To meet todays needs, you HAVE to meet the needs of all player types. 

 

Gaming, Griefing, Corpse Camping = All is fair in love and war.

 

Hate me all you want, but without me, the world is boring. Without threat from another player coming around the corner the game feels dull. Without someone to get your adrenaline pumping, the game will lose its luster. If all you want is a safe haven, you might as well play a console game. Just saying.

 

What's funny is that everyone that responded here is over there too. No one else even gives a shit. But when the games FAQ catches their eye like it did mine, then they will see my post and:

1) Play it just to make your lives a living hell

2) Not play it which brings no revenue to the developers which eventually leads to shutting down the project

 

Good luck

 

You're kidding right? Actually, the world would be a much better place without the likes of people like you with that attitude.

KillSwitch69

You're kidding right? Actually, the world would be a much better place without the likes of people like you and that attitude.

consortitude

Originally posted by Ashlura

Its only the people attempting to fight for carebear land that are arguing the points for the developers.

We arent griefers. I just wont kick people from the Guild because they choose to do it. We dont run Corpse Camping events, but I can tell you, the best way to start a fight is to mess with people. This is when they call in the troops.

 

Why look for a fight, when you can bring one to you?

 

It's simple gaming. For those that say you have played this and that, obviously you have stuck with the lighter side of things in those games. You gank, to inspire others Guildies to come fight for their people. This is how you get Guild vs Guild in World PvP. Deal with it.

 

My post here wasnt meant for drama, it was meant to spread the word. There arent many RPrs left in the World. I havent even played the game yet, but based off of what the dev said to me, yeah, the game will fail. I will resurrect this post later when it does To meet todays needs, you HAVE to meet the needs of all player types. 

 

Gaming, Griefing, Corpse Camping = All is fair in love and war.

 

Hate me all you want, but without me, the world is boring. Without threat from another player coming around the corner the game feels dull. Without someone to get your adrenaline pumping, the game will lose its luster. If all you want is a safe haven, you might as well play a console game. Just saying.

 

What's funny is that everyone that responded here is over there too. No one else even gives a shit. But when the games FAQ catches their eye like it did mine, then they will see my post and:

1) Play it just to make your lives a living hell

2) Not play it which brings no revenue to the developers which eventually leads to shutting down the project

 

Good luck

 Boy, you are sure a self-righteous idiot aren't you? Could you be more stuck on yourself.  Failures like you belong in MO, so go play that instead.  The game devs set the rules in their game, not you.  If you want to run around ganking newbies like a retard, then do it in a game where that crap is acceptable...Mortal Online.

Valkyrie

Originally posted by Miner-2049er

Originally posted by Ashlura

Gaming, Griefing, Corpse Camping = All is fair in love and war.

Hate me all you want, but without me, the world is boring. Without threat from another player coming around the corner the game feels dull. Without someone to get your adrenaline pumping, the game will lose its luster. If all you want is a safe haven, you might as well play a console game. Just saying.

Yes, we all secretly want to be ganked and griefed, and we all want to play games where our corpses are camped. I'm glad you came along because all the games were just so boring before you showed up. I guess you're like the Al Capone of the internet, and everyone is scared of you.

Just a pity that people were scared of Al Capone because he was nuts from being in the final (brain affecting) stages of syphilis huh? 

GTwander

Originally posted by danJ188

Originally posted by Juulpower

If it was my choice I would have deleted their guild thread immediatly.

We have such a great community and I don't want to see it go downwards with people like those in this guild coming. Not one of them did post an introduction in the introduce yourself section... and that's the least they could do to be 'part of the community'. They don't care for others, they just want to gank others, as their thread states... I don't like them, and I wouldn't like it if the devs say anything about it...

If you just prove your friendliness, if you just try to be part of the community, I won't have problems with you anymore... but looking at the posts you've made so far, I have.

After reading everything, I really can safely conclude that the devs do not enjoy pvp guilds, because people will get mad when they pvp. This guy makes a good point. If you don't care for a pvp game, don't include pvp. It's pretty basic. Don't hate on the players because they act in unknown and unpredictable ways.

It's not 'unknown and unpredictable', we all know why people act like stooges in PvP games; to make themselves feel like big men and make you rage quit. It's not like this hasn't been happening for-frikkin-ever, and it's not like we don't know why. Some people are just closet assholes, and a game can't rely on a demographic of people set at making others stay away or quit in disgust.

The number one problem with MO is that people think they have excuses for acting the way they do... such as "the devs encourage me following you in order to steal from and berate you for hours on end".

shadze

Been reading all these threads and what annoys me is everyone is negative about

people having genuine complaints about what in my opinion is immature game bullies.

Game bullies actually cost any game real life coin. I have accounts in most of the games on this site.

I like to play solo level up a charcter and have a great marriege to the item malls. I pay the premuims,

Spend a obscene amount of cash in the item malls and generally mind my own buseniss.

Maybe its because Im one of those mature players who has a life and love in thier spare time to play

a decent mmo.I realise these games are pvp games but I play these games because I love the stories ,enjoy the skills,

and find a real satisfaction in levelling. All I need is people attking me while im minding my own buseniss enjoying what

little time I have to play.What gets real worse you know you are powerfully build  than them and when they die all you

need is thier whole guild ganking you because one of thier members is a immature pig.So you die becuase thats the only option you have and in most mmo's you lose some xp. If this happens to much then you leave taking away your support and any money you do to the game making it secondary. I have many high level even maxed secondary characters on some games and when Im bored  I play them. Sadly this is a bad reflection on Games devolepers. Ivee always said have a choice of wether you want to be pve or pvp and  have something in the item mall to change this hence the developers profits, we who dont like to bother are happer and thier is no griefing .I have notices no game has this requirement which is stupid.Im looking at this game wondering whether it is worth playing or is it a group of bullies calling legitamite people babies. You might ask

why I dont jion a guild. havent the time for those politics as my reallife is full of that sort of thing.The reality is Developer you lose income supporting bullies .

Please consider this post and thank you for reading it.

eisenryu

World pvp is the best but no one really does it anymore because of the fancy BG and Arena systems. So I like to bring the world pvp to myself and others that share my views by doing all those horrible things mentioned in this thread. Im addicted to pvp and there is nothing better than a fair fight, but sometimes to bring the fair fight to you you have to do some terrible things i.e. Take over an alliance town with a group of about 20. After about 10 - 15 mins the world pvp has a real way of finding you.

If you havent done that, i suggest trying it.

shadze

Originally posted by eisenryu

World pvp is the best but no one really does it anymore because of the fancy BG and Arena systems. So I like to bring the world pvp to myself and others that share my views by doing all those horrible things mentioned in this thread. Im addicted to pvp and there is nothing better than a fair fight, but sometimes to bring the fair fight to you you have to do some terrible things i.e. Take over an alliance town with a group of about 20. After about 10 - 15 mins the world pvp has a real way of finding you.

If you havent done that, i suggest trying it.

I havnt got no problemns with your  view I do have problemns not really having a chioce wether one can pvp or not.Also my greatest concern is the game itself. If you scare people away you rob games income. In robbing income you dont have all the nice updates and extra features because thier isnt enough profit for the game to provide these extras.People gripe that bugs need fixing yet people leave because attitudes need fixing. Id rather boot from a game those who do not benefit the game in general . Im ddicted to better income and better updates that make me want to pay for item mall things and premium service.

I hope you are paying real money to support this game instead of just being a pvp nuisance.

OyaD

The devs certainly have not spoken out; as a matter of fact they seem more than willing to make these griefers at home - it's the rest of us who will have to suffer along with a broken community and the loss of our guild forums.

Once again, as a rper and a "carebear" (read pvp with a point and backstory rather than "I'm going to pretend to be evil in order to be a jerk") I'm a third class citizen - I have to just sit in silence as every thread degenerates into nonsense, I have to "just ignore" the other people who are quite honestly enjoying the heck out of the reaction they're getting and just keep egging it on.  In the interim, Aer's developers will just make a bunch of neutral statements and hope to take everyone's money, and as per usual, the rest of us will just have to sigh, fork over the cash, and bend over to be screwed.

Thanks, but no.

Watched it in Alganon, watched it in WoW, have had it happen a hundred times before, and now, I put my money with a company I actually want to support, not just wishful thinking or a bunch of promises.  The whole thing sort of reminds me of the BP disaster - "well we COULD cap the oil spill and stop the incredibly toxic stuff from leaking out and ruining our ocean, but how about we find a way to stem the tide instead so we can make some bucks off the black-stuff?  I mean c'mon, can you see how much of it is pouring out and covering the ocean's surface?  If only we could get that stuff in a barrel, baby!"

Thanks, but no.

It's had some promise, but until the devs either take a real, actual stance against jerks, or tell me flat out that the "carebear rp community really isn't going to be welcome here", what they're doing is completely balls-less, and any respect I had is pretty much gone.  Even Darkfall had the guts to just say straight out "This game won't be for some people", and I could respect their straight-forward attitude - they were able to say so without being twits, which in my experience is pretty rare among the general PvP populace.  So what Aer's problem is, I don't know.  I do know that the devs used to chat a lot on the forums but now, they're mostly silent.  I know that there used to be other conversations than PvPjerks-vs-Everyone, but that's gone too.  How this game went from where it had been to where it is now, I don't know, but I do think the developers either don't want to say anything in order for their game to succeed (at which point, it won't) or they just plain have no idea what to do to stem the oil-flow and save the ocean, so it just keeps getting worse.

But if it's money they want, I'm sure they'll get it, and they can have the fun of dealing with the neanderthal mentality all they like.  But they won't be taking my cash and giving me a half-hearted experience where I have to ignore over 50% of the populace in order to attempt (and probably fail) to enjoy myself.

Thanks, but no.  There's other games - and no, not something "cute" as I actually DO PvP, thanks, but certainly not to ruin someone else's day or force other people to perform a playstyle they don't enjoy out of self-defence.  

Cherise

Originally posted by OyaD

The devs certainly have not spoken out; as a matter of fact they seem more than willing to make these griefers at home - it's the rest of us who will have to suffer along with a broken community and the loss of our guild forums.

I'm feeling exactly the same as you, Oya.  Amazing how a community got turned around with the arrival of one guild and rather than address those disrupting the forums and delete the posts full of expletives, they delete the entire guild recruitment thread so all guilds are punished.

I can only assume because they have a small community they don't want to moderate specific individuals to risk losing potential subscribers.  But deleting an entire guild recruitment forum sure wasn't the answer.  While I was curious to play before, will have to take a pass on this now.  Really a shame to have witnessed another community go down the drain yet again.

shadze

Originally posted by OyaD

The devs certainly have not spoken out; as a matter of fact they seem more than willing to make these griefers at home - it's the rest of us who will have to suffer along with a broken community and the loss of our guild forums.

Once again, as a rper and a "carebear" (read pvp with a point and backstory rather than "I'm going to pretend to be evil in order to be a jerk") I'm a third class citizen - I have to just sit in silence as every thread degenerates into nonsense, I have to "just ignore" the other people who are quite honestly enjoying the heck out of the reaction they're getting and just keep egging it on.  In the interim, Aer's developers will just make a bunch of neutral statements and hope to take everyone's money, and as per usual, the rest of us will just have to sigh, fork over the cash, and bend over to be screwed.

Thanks, but no.

Watched it in Alganon, watched it in WoW, have had it happen a hundred times before, and now, I put my money with a company I actually want to support, not just wishful thinking or a bunch of promises.  The whole thing sort of reminds me of the BP disaster - "well we COULD cap the oil spill and stop the incredibly toxic stuff from leaking out and ruining our ocean, but how about we find a way to stem the tide instead so we can make some bucks off the black-stuff?  I mean c'mon, can you see how much of it is pouring out and covering the ocean's surface?  If only we could get that stuff in a barrel, baby!"

Thanks, but no.

It's had some promise, but until the devs either take a real, actual stance against jerks, or tell me flat out that the "carebear rp community really isn't going to be welcome here", what they're doing is completely balls-less, and any respect I had is pretty much gone.  Even Darkfall had the guts to just say straight out "This game won't be for some people", and I could respect their straight-forward attitude - they were able to say so without being twits, which in my experience is pretty rare among the general PvP populace.  So what Aer's problem is, I don't know.  I do know that the devs used to chat a lot on the forums but now, they're mostly silent.  I know that there used to be other conversations than PvPjerks-vs-Everyone, but that's gone too.  How this game went from where it had been to where it is now, I don't know, but I do think the developers either don't want to say anything in order for their game to succeed (at which point, it won't) or they just plain have no idea what to do to stem the oil-flow and save the ocean, so it just keeps getting worse.

But if it's money they want, I'm sure they'll get it, and they can have the fun of dealing with the neanderthal mentality all they like.  But they won't be taking my cash and giving me a half-hearted experience where I have to ignore over 50% of the populace in order to attempt (and probably fail) to enjoy myself.

Thanks, but no.  There's other games - and no, not something "cute" as I actually DO PvP, thanks, but certainly not to ruin someone else's day or force other people to perform a playstyle they don't enjoy out of self-defence.  

some good points in this post. As I said simply have a pvp chioce and use a item mall function to change whatever your playstyles. This way poeple who want to pvp later at a much higher level pay for a item mall function. People who are pains can be punished in to a non pvp stance and will have to pay to be pvp as well. Hit them where thier pocket is.Make the pvp change reasonably expensive and give it a days delay incase people have made a mistake . In this way it wont stop all pains but gives the community another tool to use.

eisenryu

Originally posted by shadze

Originally posted by eisenryu

World pvp is the best but no one really does it anymore because of the fancy BG and Arena systems. So I like to bring the world pvp to myself and others that share my views by doing all those horrible things mentioned in this thread. Im addicted to pvp and there is nothing better than a fair fight, but sometimes to bring the fair fight to you you have to do some terrible things i.e. Take over an alliance town with a group of about 20. After about 10 - 15 mins the world pvp has a real way of finding you.

If you havent done that, i suggest trying it.

I havnt got no problemns with your  view I do have problemns not really having a chioce wether one can pvp or not.Also my greatest concern is the game itself. If you scare people away you rob games income. In robbing income you dont have all the nice updates and extra features because thier isnt enough profit for the game to provide these extras.People gripe that bugs need fixing yet people leave because attitudes need fixing. Id rather boot from a game those who do not benefit the game in general . Im ddicted to better income and better updates that make me want to pay for item mall things and premium service.

I hope you are paying real money to support this game instead of just being a pvp nuisance.

Wrong, my friend. This gives new players something to look up to when they hit level cap. Or it gives current 80s a reason to come out and do some real pvp, not that arena and BG bullsh*t. Be it a someone answering a noobs cry for help or a pissed off level 80 trying to level and alt, doesnt matter.

kaiser3282

Originally posted by shadze

Originally posted by OyaD

The devs certainly have not spoken out; as a matter of fact they seem more than willing to make these griefers at home - it's the rest of us who will have to suffer along with a broken community and the loss of our guild forums.

Once again, as a rper and a "carebear" (read pvp with a point and backstory rather than "I'm going to pretend to be evil in order to be a jerk") I'm a third class citizen - I have to just sit in silence as every thread degenerates into nonsense, I have to "just ignore" the other people who are quite honestly enjoying the heck out of the reaction they're getting and just keep egging it on.  In the interim, Aer's developers will just make a bunch of neutral statements and hope to take everyone's money, and as per usual, the rest of us will just have to sigh, fork over the cash, and bend over to be screwed.

Thanks, but no.

Watched it in Alganon, watched it in WoW, have had it happen a hundred times before, and now, I put my money with a company I actually want to support, not just wishful thinking or a bunch of promises.  The whole thing sort of reminds me of the BP disaster - "well we COULD cap the oil spill and stop the incredibly toxic stuff from leaking out and ruining our ocean, but how about we find a way to stem the tide instead so we can make some bucks off the black-stuff?  I mean c'mon, can you see how much of it is pouring out and covering the ocean's surface?  If only we could get that stuff in a barrel, baby!"

Thanks, but no.

It's had some promise, but until the devs either take a real, actual stance against jerks, or tell me flat out that the "carebear rp community really isn't going to be welcome here", what they're doing is completely balls-less, and any respect I had is pretty much gone.  Even Darkfall had the guts to just say straight out "This game won't be for some people", and I could respect their straight-forward attitude - they were able to say so without being twits, which in my experience is pretty rare among the general PvP populace.  So what Aer's problem is, I don't know.  I do know that the devs used to chat a lot on the forums but now, they're mostly silent.  I know that there used to be other conversations than PvPjerks-vs-Everyone, but that's gone too.  How this game went from where it had been to where it is now, I don't know, but I do think the developers either don't want to say anything in order for their game to succeed (at which point, it won't) or they just plain have no idea what to do to stem the oil-flow and save the ocean, so it just keeps getting worse.

But if it's money they want, I'm sure they'll get it, and they can have the fun of dealing with the neanderthal mentality all they like.  But they won't be taking my cash and giving me a half-hearted experience where I have to ignore over 50% of the populace in order to attempt (and probably fail) to enjoy myself.

Thanks, but no.  There's other games - and no, not something "cute" as I actually DO PvP, thanks, but certainly not to ruin someone else's day or force other people to perform a playstyle they don't enjoy out of self-defence.  

some good points in this post. As I said simply have a pvp chioce and use a item mall function to change whatever your playstyles. This way poeple who want to pvp later at a much higher level pay for a item mall function. People who are pains can be punished in to a non pvp stance and will have to pay to be pvp as well. Hit them where thier pocket is.Make the pvp change reasonably expensive and give it a days delay incase people have made a mistake . In this way it wont stop all pains but gives the community another tool to use.

 Seperate the ability to PvP at all  in an MMO by putting an expensive pricetag on it? Please tell me you're either kidding or extremely drunk/high. Horrible idea. Why even bother when plenty of games already have a PVP flagged on/off feature for free? Why not just use the same method if you're going to basically have people turning it on and off.