I'm going to go ahead and agree that they made a fail move because of the obvious blowback that was bound to happen, but I disagree with all your reasons to why the game will be ruined by F2Ps. You really think LotRO is going to actually entertain a lot of these people with it's free content? It failed to do so with a full game when it was subs-only. If anything, this is going to get more serious players to sub-up once they actually get over the first hurdle in *trying* it... the rest will be bored out of their minds and plays something else, or just fiddle with the music system.
If you think F2P players are annoying now, wait till I find you in game and follow you around playing freebird on ma lute.
You're gonna be like "why do all these freebs have to rock harder than us paid players, it's not faaaaair."
oooh now I'm soooo scared...
time to get the ignore button out of the dust!
Please... I rock the lute so hard that you'll be reaching for your volume knob to turn it up!
I made a lot of scrilla playing music, even during a free trial period where I came back *just* to get to level 5 and jam for a week.
~but yes, the rest of the freebs are going to suck.... at first.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I guess when you buy a game you complain that others can download the demo for free.
Its similar to whats going on here.
Could you be any more detached from what is really going on?
Seeing as i already have a quarterly subscription and have read what thats going to get me. I'm not really detached. Could you be any more clueless?
"read what its going to get me"
LMAO.
You have no clue whats going on, you just think everthing is "A OK" in your neck of middle earth. Typical of the playerbase that worships at Turbines feet.
There won't change anything for VIP/lifetime VIP players...You will still be able to do what you are doing now without restrictions. The only sad thing is that we will see an unmature community in low levels.
BTW:F2p players won't get all there content for free, without paying you won't be able to quest in Lone-Lands and further area's, you have almost no traits, you won't even buy your horse since the money cap is 2g, you can only make 1character, you won't get rested xp, you cannot spend destiny,...
As for VIP players, we would even have a chance to buy our further expansions for free! Isn't that nice hu?
I'm going to go ahead and agree that they made a fail move because of the obvious blowback that was bound to happen, but I disagree with all your reasons to why the game will be ruined by F2Ps. You really think LotRO is going to actually entertain a lot of these people with it's free content? It failed to do so with a full game when it was subs-only. If anything, this is going to get more serious players to sub-up once they actually get over the first hurdle in *trying* it... the rest will be bored out of their minds and plays something else, or just fiddle with the music system.
If you think F2P players are annoying now, wait till I find you in game and follow you around playing freebird on ma lute.
You're gonna be like "why do all these freebs have to rock harder than us paid players, it's not faaaaair."
oooh now I'm soooo scared...
time to get the ignore button out of the dust!
Please... I rock the lute so hard that you'll be reaching for your volume knob to turn it up!
I made a lot of scrilla playing music, even during a free trial period where I came back *just* to get to level 5 and jam for a week.
~but yes, the rest of the freebs are going to suck.... at first.
you should go into the music industry ;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------- waiting for ... nothing..
Actually it kind of IS Fraud... if this person bought a lifetime subscription when the game first came out or 6 months ago I would have said suck it up. But Turbine should have stopped their lifetime subscription long ago because theyk new there were switching to F2P way before they announced it. It's not something they just decided on one day and then announced it that very day. There is a process involved. I'd be upset to if I bought a lifetime subscription in the last month. Shame on them for keeping their lifetime subscription up.
However as I said I don't think F2P will be a bad thing for LotRO. As others have said.. it's still going to bring in quality players. The little ADD children will quickly get bored and move on elsewhere. This is just getting people who were on the fence or those looking for a free secondary MMO to try out LotRO.
I'm unhappy, hence the post and I thank all the peeps who have positively contributed here.
The issue is clear, I entered into a contract which the seller had no intention of honouring their side.
This is WRONG.
I did not want to pay for F2P content.
I do not want to play a F2P game.
If they had asked me for £75 for free to play content I would have quit and subbed to another game.
I asked a question earlier, would anyone pay £75 for F2P content?
People get ripped on the internet all the time, this is obviously now my turn, I'm just lucky its not a life changing amount of money.
Problem for them is I'm not going to let this lie.
Its not really the £75 to be honest, its the principle.
This type of practice in this industry needs cleaned up now.
I would not pay £75 for F2P, as it is not F2P content that you are paying for, it is VIP content
If there were NO premium or VIP options, and it was totaly F2P, then you may have a case, but as there are various options, you don't have a case and is NOT "WRONG"
The F2P model is nothing more than permanent restricted free trial that all P2P MMOs have
Its not even the principle, you clearly don't have a grip on the situation, because you are too angry to see the reality.
Actually it kind of IS Fraud... if this person bought a lifetime subscription when the game first came out or 6 months ago I would have said suck it up. But Turbine should have stopped their lifetime subscription long ago because theyk new there were switching to F2P way before they announced it. It's not something they just decided on one day and then announced it that very day. There is a process involved. I'd be upset to if I bought a lifetime subscription in the last month. Shame on them for keeping their lifetime subscription up.
However as I said I don't think F2P will be a bad thing for LotRO. As others have said.. it's still going to bring in quality players. The little ADD children will quickly get bored and move on elsewhere. This is just getting people who were on the fence or those looking for a free secondary MMO to try out LotRO.
Its still not fraud, as if you drop down to the premium or F2P models you will end up having to pay more, or continue to stick to the montthly subscription.
Apparently the US version has already dropped their Lifetime subscription, and CM in Europe may do the same too. Then people will be wanting Lifetime subscriptions when realise have to pay through the roof to play the game.
I have 2 Lifetime subscriptions, and even with this announcement I would still buy a Lifetime subscription if I did not have one.
People are only getting their knickers in a twist because of the "Free" part, which it really is not. Its as free as a free trial, and the reason people don't keep playing the free trials is because they are heavily restricted.
Ok... So what did you loose exactly? You get a vip account... free expansions and extra points... You won't pay a dime for a game as intended in the first place with the lifetime sub. You lost nothing and gained nothing actually. Its still the same thing.
I've been uplinked and downloaded, I've been inputted and outsourced. I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading.
I'm a high-tech low-life. A cutting-edge, state-of-the-art, bi-coastal multi-tasker, and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond.
I'm new-wave, but I'm old-school; and my inner child is outward-bound.
I'm a hot-wired, heat-seeking, warm-hearted cool customer; voice-activated and bio-degradable.
so there is no way they have got their value for money if they return after the F2P occurs.
How would you know? The game has already payed off for a lot of people, that got lifetime sub's back in the day. Plus lifetime under the F2P model... will still continue to pay off. Please enlighten me, on how it won't?
Ahhh... quote mining.
nyxium's full sentence was:
"I know of people who purchased the lifetime sub so they could come back when they felt like it and haven't really scratched more than the surface of the game so there is no way they have got their value for money if they return after the F2P occurs."
You left out the entire first half of that sentence, noted in bold text, which gives the statement its full context. You then challenge nyxium's on it, in a dishonest round of "gotcha".
You're talking about how "the game has already payed off for a lot of people". In reading nyxium's *full* statement - including the bit you omitted - it's clear that's not what he's talking about. What Nyxium is actually, and specifically, referring is to those who have payed a lifetime sub, but "barely scratch the surface". In other words, they haven't played the game enough yet for the lifetime sub to have been "payed off".
Note: If anyone's going to say "well it's not Turbine's problem that they didn't play more"... spare it. It's irrelevant to the topic.
That's why it's so important when responding to someone to make sure you're quoting something in its entirery, and in its proper context.
In the end, the base disagreement can still well be debated... However, if you're going to quote someone, quote the entire thing - not only the part you want to play "gotcha' with.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You're talking about how "the game has already payed off for a lot of people". In reading nyxium's *full* statement - including the bit you omitted - it's clear that's not what he's talking about. What Nyxium is actually, and specifically, referring is to those who have payed a lifetime sub, but "barely scratch the surface". In other words, they haven't played the game enough yet for the lifetime sub to have been "payed off".
That's kind of a moot argument too, as if they hadn't bought the lifetime sub in the first place, they would be paying monthly to not even play. So however much time they actually spend playing is pointless compared to the amount of cycling months that have passed from the day they started.
Are people paying monthly part of this figure, or does it not matter how much/little they play?
Because I can argue that I was being ripped off while paying 15$ a month to only play lute on occasion.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Ok... So what did you loose exactly? You get a vip account... free expansions and extra points... You won't pay a dime for a game as intended in the first place with the lifetime sub. You lost nothing and gained nothing actually. Its still the same thing.
.... Heh unless of course you find the want or need to purchase more than the 500 TP will buy in a month , then you will paying the monthly fee , The money of course is being used to develop new content , that you may then need or want to buy from them for additional money out of your pocket ....pretty scummy if ya ask me ... And seeing the word Purchasable next to anything for Lifers or ViPs is just wrong ..
Ok... So what did you loose exactly? You get a vip account... free expansions and extra points... You won't pay a dime for a game as intended in the first place with the lifetime sub. You lost nothing and gained nothing actually. Its still the same thing.
.... Heh unless of course you find the want or need to purchase more than the 500 TP will buy in a month , then you will paying the monthly fee , The money of course is being used to develop new content , that you may then need or want to buy from them for additional money out of your pocket ....pretty scummy if ya ask me ... And seeing the word Purchasable next to anything for Lifers or ViPs is just wrong ..
There is nothing that is really needed that can't get within the 500 points per month, unless you want to go overboard with. Everything you get from the store is extra, paying more is just paying more but is not a loss, and would need to pay that even if there were no F2P or premium options, and game was the same as it was last week.
Its still better than the TCG on SWG, where you buy booster packs in the chance you may get the item, perk or content you want, where as in LOTRO you will get what you paid for, plus in SWG there is still a montly fee.
And if you do want to purchase stuff more than 500 points, you will have to pay a lot more than than the Lifetime sub or monthly sub to get that on the F2P option.
Bought the lifetime membership 2 weeks ago. The reduced offer was due to run till end June then they switch to F2P half way thru!!!!!.
I contacted Codemasters who say no refunds.
This is fraud.
Beware any payments to this company in any form.
Not a fraud. You have a lifetime subscription. A f2p has much much less options than you do. If I asked you if you would stay subbed even though its f2p, and you said yes... then there is no argument
HALP! HALP ME! I'm... I'm drowning... in a sea of STUPIDITY... the OP opened the floodgates... AGH! HALP ME!
MMORPG.com sure is buzzing like an angry bees' nest. I guess it's not surprising; this is the first time a non-dying MMO did something like this. Dzikun's post says it all, can this thread be closed now that I've added an insult and things may get ugly?
Dprop (post below), good job. You are quite the budding artist.
Bought the lifetime membership 2 weeks ago. The reduced offer was due to run till end June then they switch to F2P half way thru!!!!!.
I contacted Codemasters who say no refunds.
This is fraud.
Beware any payments to this company in any form.
Sounds like you got a deal, because there are features in the game that only you will have access to with that lifetime sub, and people who go the f2p option will eventually pay more, for less.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
OP, I'm a lifetime sub, just bought it in February. At first I panicked yesterday, until I read what I would be getting. Basically, I'm still a lifer but now I get points to spend on future expansions, Which is the best deal ever!
Also, I hate FTPs as much as the next guy, but you have to realize you are now using the term FTP incorrectly. LOTRO was built as a subscriber game unlike FTPs. This is more of a hybrid FTP/Subscriber game, which is ten times better than any other payment model as it gives customers more choices and options which in turn brings in more players, revenue and will help the game really grow.
If you cannot get over this preconceived notion about FTPs just because of the term FTP, you may as well leave the genre now. Mark my words, I suspect this is the beginning of a turning point in payment models for MMOs on the market.
Discernment is key here, learn to tell the difference between triple A games that go FTP and games that are just out for your cash. Hell, FTP argument is starting to lose weight now that atrocities like Star Trek Online and Champions Online deign to charge a monthly sub for "FTP" quality.
Ok... So what did you loose exactly? You get a vip account... free expansions and extra points... You won't pay a dime for a game as intended in the first place with the lifetime sub. You lost nothing and gained nothing actually. Its still the same thing.
.... Heh unless of course you find the want or need to purchase more than the 500 TP will buy in a month , then you will paying the monthly fee , The money of course is being used to develop new content , that you may then need or want to buy from them for additional money out of your pocket ....pretty scummy if ya ask me ... And seeing the word Purchasable next to anything for Lifers or ViPs is just wrong ..
There is nothing that is really needed that can't get within the 500 points per month, unless you want to go overboard with. Everything you get from the store is extra, paying more is just paying more but is not a loss, and would need to pay that even if there were no F2P or premium options, and game was the same as it was last week.
Its still better than the TCG on SWG, where you buy booster packs in the chance you may get the item, perk or content you want, where as in LOTRO you will get what you paid for, plus in SWG there is still a montly fee.
And if you do want to purchase stuff more than 500 points, you will have to pay a lot more than than the Lifetime sub or monthly sub to get that on the F2P option.
Oh come on, nobody actually knows what is going to be on the store yet, so how can anybody say that it will be stuff that is not needed. I could just as easily say that they are going to stuff the store full of must have items and cosumables that will be required to play, resulting in even a lifetime subscriber being in the position of having to spend at least $50 a month to stay competitive.
This still sucks for people who have literally just paid for a lifetime sub. They should have closed the lifetime offers a month ago and only re-opened the offer once this information we released, thus allowing customers to make a properly informed purchase.
Even if it is not actually fraud, it is still very shady business practice. I personally couldn't care less if they let everyone play for free and funded the item store via chocolate buttons. All I'm asking is that they refund me the cost of the lifetime subscription I purchased 11 days ago and I'll be on my way never to bother the lands of Mordor again.
so there is no way they have got their value for money if they return after the F2P occurs.
How would you know? The game has already payed off for a lot of people, that got lifetime sub's back in the day. Plus lifetime under the F2P model... will still continue to pay off. Please enlighten me, on how it won't?
Ahhh... quote mining.
nyxium's full sentence was:
"I know of people who purchased the lifetime sub so they could come back when they felt like it and haven't really scratched more than the surface of the game so there is no way they have got their value for money if they return after the F2P occurs."
You left out the entire first half of that sentence, noted in bold text, which gives the statement its full context. You then challenge nyxium's on it, in a dishonest round of "gotcha".
You're talking about how "the game has already payed off for a lot of people". In reading nyxium's *full* statement - including the bit you omitted - it's clear that's not what he's talking about. What Nyxium is actually, and specifically, referring is to those who have payed a lifetime sub, but "barely scratch the surface". In other words, they haven't played the game enough yet for the lifetime sub to have been "payed off".
Note: If anyone's going to say "well it's not Turbine's problem that they didn't play more"... spare it. It's irrelevant to the topic.
That's why it's so important when responding to someone to make sure you're quoting something in its entirery, and in its proper context.
In the end, the base disagreement can still well be debated... However, if you're going to quote someone, quote the entire thing - not only the part you want to play "gotcha' with.
Did you truely need to insist typing out all that jackassery?
Even if im guilty of anything, which i couldn't care less at this point, because it so damn trivial. Note that i said, even under the F2P model the lifetime sub will continue to pay off. So in the end, no matter how you fricken twist it, it really doesn't matter if i fully quoted him or not, nor does it matter if the players he is talking about didn't scratch the surface of the game, or not. The lifetime they just bought, will continue to pay off regardless of payment model.
Had to remember my password to this website just for this one thread.
Mr. Bluekid, you do realize that none of this is Turbine's fault or anyone besides you right? Remember, YOU bought the lifetime subscription. Turbine didn't walk up to your door and force the lifetime sub down you, didn't they? It seems that this is all on you. YOU bought the sub, YOU pay for the consequences (which to be honest, I don't see any consequences in that fantastic deal you got.) You can sit there and complain all you want but in the long run, it will still be YOUR FAULT... Oh, I almost forgot! To you 10 year old brats out there calling this a "FRAUD," a fine example of this deal being a fraud would be that if they weren't going to offer any sort of support for their subscribers and they were just going to make the ENTIRE game free to everyone! That is a fraud. This situation at the moment, though, seems to be the best deal of your life. You seem to be the type that won't actually do some research before you open your trap in these forums. Heck.. I feel sorry for you if you went and bought the starter pack for Need for Speed World since that is going to be F2P as we.. oh wait, you get so much more content then you would if you just played it F2P. Same goes for Runescape as well (Runescape isn't the best game in the world but it definately is a great example of F2P content against P2P content.) Also, don't start whining due the game going F2P because that is one lame excuse for not playing the game. Are you afraid that your reputation (which is quite low at the moment) will plunge if you play a F2P game? LAWL!!! You actually believe you have been robbed.. The only thing that is being robbed at the moment is everyone else's precious time they could be using on something else but we are forced to look at your idiotic statement that a 5 year old would possible make.
Oh.. before I leave, grow up Bluekid and welcome to the world amigo!
P.S. I had made a special picture for Bluekid. http://tinypic.com/r/2ptsb5j/6 Couldn't put up the picture in this because I didn't know how! ;p
If there is sufficient evidence that the company was planning to mislead consumers by releasing a product as 'lifetime' and then switching the terms of the agreement 1 month after the fact without declaring bankruptcy, it can be considered fraud. It has nothing to do with what 'deals they got', as they never agreed to pay for the bait-and-switch. Maybe some people like it...sure...but those who don't should be titled to a refund.
Ok... So what did you loose exactly? You get a vip account... free expansions and extra points... You won't pay a dime for a game as intended in the first place with the lifetime sub. You lost nothing and gained nothing actually. Its still the same thing.
.... Heh unless of course you find the want or need to purchase more than the 500 TP will buy in a month , then you will paying the monthly fee , The money of course is being used to develop new content , that you may then need or want to buy from them for additional money out of your pocket ....pretty scummy if ya ask me ... And seeing the word Purchasable next to anything for Lifers or ViPs is just wrong ..
There is nothing that is really needed that can't get within the 500 points per month, unless you want to go overboard with. Everything you get from the store is extra, paying more is just paying more but is not a loss, and would need to pay that even if there were no F2P or premium options, and game was the same as it was last week.
Its still better than the TCG on SWG, where you buy booster packs in the chance you may get the item, perk or content you want, where as in LOTRO you will get what you paid for, plus in SWG there is still a montly fee.
And if you do want to purchase stuff more than 500 points, you will have to pay a lot more than than the Lifetime sub or monthly sub to get that on the F2P option.
Oh come on, nobody actually knows what is going to be on the store yet, so how can anybody say that it will be stuff that is not needed. I could just as easily say that they are going to stuff the store full of must have items and cosumables that will be required to play, resulting in even a lifetime subscriber being in the position of having to spend at least $50 a month to stay competitive.
This still sucks for people who have literally just paid for a lifetime sub. They should have closed the lifetime offers a month ago and only re-opened the offer once this information we released, thus allowing customers to make a properly informed purchase.
Even if it is not actually fraud, it is still very shady business practice. I personally couldn't care less if they let everyone play for free and funded the item store via chocolate buttons. All I'm asking is that they refund me the cost of the lifetime subscription I purchased 11 days ago and I'll be on my way never to bother the lands of Mordor again.
That is only experience from what is available on the stores of other MMOs, and can live without the TCG stuff in SWG no problems.
If they did not do the F2P scheme you'd still be stuck in the same boat, as will still be paying for stuff from the store as you see fit. The fact it is going F2p means nothing, and if you go on the F2P schem and pay for everything separtely you will be paying MORE money in total, especially if you want to stay competitive.
The later you buy the lifetime subscription the more risk you have in buying it. They could have gotten in financial problems, which resulted in the game being shut down. Its the risk you take when you buy the Lifetime subs, I have bought 2 LT subs to LOTRO, and 1 each to Champions Online and Star Trek Online, and they all pose the same threat. STO could suddenly announce next week that they are shutting it down within 2 months, and I still would not have benefitted from it, but it is the risk I took.
Even WOW went through changes a while ago, not exactly sure what it was as not following it, but it caused an uproar. Every MMO it seems always changes the game drastically at some point. If you don't like this method or playing a F2P it is one of the things that should have prevneted you from purchasing a LT sub, especially at this stage of the games life.
Once the F2PO goes in you will be glad of that Lifetime subscription, as when they do remove it, people will be beggiong for it to come back.
"I know of people who purchased the lifetime sub so they could come back when they felt like it and haven't really scratched more than the surface of the game so there is no way they have got their value for money if they return after the F2P occurs."
Before F2P, if a lifetime player came back after a year they would be exactly where they were when they left off.
After F2P, if a lifetime player came back after a year they would be exactly where they were when they left off except they would have 6,000 points accumulated because they were a lifetime subscriber.
The latter seems to offer more value for the money as you accrue rewards simply for having that premium account.
And you guys are saying they got more value for their money in the first scenario? The blind rage generated by select three-letter acronyms seems to be clouding the way some people view this.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
Seeing as i already have a quarterly subscription and have read what thats going to get me. I'm not really detached. Could you be any more clueless?
Please... I rock the lute so hard that you'll be reaching for your volume knob to turn it up!
I made a lot of scrilla playing music, even during a free trial period where I came back *just* to get to level 5 and jam for a week.
~but yes, the rest of the freebs are going to suck.... at first.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
"read what its going to get me"
LMAO.
You have no clue whats going on, you just think everthing is "A OK" in your neck of middle earth. Typical of the playerbase that worships at Turbines feet.
Some of you guys should better read this: http://www.lotro.com/betasignup/vipchart.html
There won't change anything for VIP/lifetime VIP players...You will still be able to do what you are doing now without restrictions. The only sad thing is that we will see an unmature community in low levels.
BTW:F2p players won't get all there content for free, without paying you won't be able to quest in Lone-Lands and further area's, you have almost no traits, you won't even buy your horse since the money cap is 2g, you can only make 1character, you won't get rested xp, you cannot spend destiny,...
As for VIP players, we would even have a chance to buy our further expansions for free! Isn't that nice hu?
[FONT="Verdana"][SIZE="1"][COLOR="SandyBrown"]Lotro:[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE="1"][COLOR="Wheat"]Rolhad[/COLOR] - [COLOR="Wheat"]The Nine[/COLOR] - [COLOR="Wheat"]Evernight[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
you should go into the music industry ;-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
waiting for ... nothing..
They totally f'd up. I was willing to pay in order to jam out, but looks like I'll get it for free!
(don't tell them I said that)
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Actually it kind of IS Fraud... if this person bought a lifetime subscription when the game first came out or 6 months ago I would have said suck it up. But Turbine should have stopped their lifetime subscription long ago because theyk new there were switching to F2P way before they announced it. It's not something they just decided on one day and then announced it that very day. There is a process involved. I'd be upset to if I bought a lifetime subscription in the last month. Shame on them for keeping their lifetime subscription up.
However as I said I don't think F2P will be a bad thing for LotRO. As others have said.. it's still going to bring in quality players. The little ADD children will quickly get bored and move on elsewhere. This is just getting people who were on the fence or those looking for a free secondary MMO to try out LotRO.
I would not pay £75 for F2P, as it is not F2P content that you are paying for, it is VIP content
If there were NO premium or VIP options, and it was totaly F2P, then you may have a case, but as there are various options, you don't have a case and is NOT "WRONG"
The F2P model is nothing more than permanent restricted free trial that all P2P MMOs have
Its not even the principle, you clearly don't have a grip on the situation, because you are too angry to see the reality.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Its still not fraud, as if you drop down to the premium or F2P models you will end up having to pay more, or continue to stick to the montthly subscription.
Apparently the US version has already dropped their Lifetime subscription, and CM in Europe may do the same too. Then people will be wanting Lifetime subscriptions when realise have to pay through the roof to play the game.
I have 2 Lifetime subscriptions, and even with this announcement I would still buy a Lifetime subscription if I did not have one.
People are only getting their knickers in a twist because of the "Free" part, which it really is not. Its as free as a free trial, and the reason people don't keep playing the free trials is because they are heavily restricted.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Ok... So what did you loose exactly? You get a vip account... free expansions and extra points... You won't pay a dime for a game as intended in the first place with the lifetime sub. You lost nothing and gained nothing actually. Its still the same thing.
I've been uplinked and downloaded, I've been inputted and outsourced. I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading.
I'm a high-tech low-life. A cutting-edge, state-of-the-art, bi-coastal multi-tasker, and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond.
I'm new-wave, but I'm old-school; and my inner child is outward-bound.
I'm a hot-wired, heat-seeking, warm-hearted cool customer; voice-activated and bio-degradable.
RIP George Carlin.
Ahhh... quote mining.
nyxium's full sentence was:
"I know of people who purchased the lifetime sub so they could come back when they felt like it and haven't really scratched more than the surface of the game so there is no way they have got their value for money if they return after the F2P occurs."
You left out the entire first half of that sentence, noted in bold text, which gives the statement its full context. You then challenge nyxium's on it, in a dishonest round of "gotcha".
You're talking about how "the game has already payed off for a lot of people". In reading nyxium's *full* statement - including the bit you omitted - it's clear that's not what he's talking about. What Nyxium is actually, and specifically, referring is to those who have payed a lifetime sub, but "barely scratch the surface". In other words, they haven't played the game enough yet for the lifetime sub to have been "payed off".
Note: If anyone's going to say "well it's not Turbine's problem that they didn't play more"... spare it. It's irrelevant to the topic.
That's why it's so important when responding to someone to make sure you're quoting something in its entirery, and in its proper context.
In the end, the base disagreement can still well be debated... However, if you're going to quote someone, quote the entire thing - not only the part you want to play "gotcha' with.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
That's kind of a moot argument too, as if they hadn't bought the lifetime sub in the first place, they would be paying monthly to not even play. So however much time they actually spend playing is pointless compared to the amount of cycling months that have passed from the day they started.
Are people paying monthly part of this figure, or does it not matter how much/little they play?
Because I can argue that I was being ripped off while paying 15$ a month to only play lute on occasion.
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.... Heh unless of course you find the want or need to purchase more than the 500 TP will buy in a month , then you will paying the monthly fee , The money of course is being used to develop new content , that you may then need or want to buy from them for additional money out of your pocket ....pretty scummy if ya ask me ... And seeing the word Purchasable next to anything for Lifers or ViPs is just wrong ..
There is nothing that is really needed that can't get within the 500 points per month, unless you want to go overboard with. Everything you get from the store is extra, paying more is just paying more but is not a loss, and would need to pay that even if there were no F2P or premium options, and game was the same as it was last week.
Its still better than the TCG on SWG, where you buy booster packs in the chance you may get the item, perk or content you want, where as in LOTRO you will get what you paid for, plus in SWG there is still a montly fee.
And if you do want to purchase stuff more than 500 points, you will have to pay a lot more than than the Lifetime sub or monthly sub to get that on the F2P option.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Not a fraud. You have a lifetime subscription. A f2p has much much less options than you do. If I asked you if you would stay subbed even though its f2p, and you said yes... then there is no argument
HALP! HALP ME! I'm... I'm drowning... in a sea of STUPIDITY... the OP opened the floodgates... AGH! HALP ME!
MMORPG.com sure is buzzing like an angry bees' nest. I guess it's not surprising; this is the first time a non-dying MMO did something like this. Dzikun's post says it all, can this thread be closed now that I've added an insult and things may get ugly?
Dprop (post below), good job. You are quite the budding artist.
Sounds like you got a deal, because there are features in the game that only you will have access to with that lifetime sub, and people who go the f2p option will eventually pay more, for less.
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse." - Henry Ford
OP, I'm a lifetime sub, just bought it in February. At first I panicked yesterday, until I read what I would be getting. Basically, I'm still a lifer but now I get points to spend on future expansions, Which is the best deal ever!
Also, I hate FTPs as much as the next guy, but you have to realize you are now using the term FTP incorrectly. LOTRO was built as a subscriber game unlike FTPs. This is more of a hybrid FTP/Subscriber game, which is ten times better than any other payment model as it gives customers more choices and options which in turn brings in more players, revenue and will help the game really grow.
If you cannot get over this preconceived notion about FTPs just because of the term FTP, you may as well leave the genre now. Mark my words, I suspect this is the beginning of a turning point in payment models for MMOs on the market.
Discernment is key here, learn to tell the difference between triple A games that go FTP and games that are just out for your cash. Hell, FTP argument is starting to lose weight now that atrocities like Star Trek Online and Champions Online deign to charge a monthly sub for "FTP" quality.
Oh come on, nobody actually knows what is going to be on the store yet, so how can anybody say that it will be stuff that is not needed. I could just as easily say that they are going to stuff the store full of must have items and cosumables that will be required to play, resulting in even a lifetime subscriber being in the position of having to spend at least $50 a month to stay competitive.
This still sucks for people who have literally just paid for a lifetime sub. They should have closed the lifetime offers a month ago and only re-opened the offer once this information we released, thus allowing customers to make a properly informed purchase.
Even if it is not actually fraud, it is still very shady business practice. I personally couldn't care less if they let everyone play for free and funded the item store via chocolate buttons. All I'm asking is that they refund me the cost of the lifetime subscription I purchased 11 days ago and I'll be on my way never to bother the lands of Mordor again.
Did you truely need to insist typing out all that jackassery?
Even if im guilty of anything, which i couldn't care less at this point, because it so damn trivial. Note that i said, even under the F2P model the lifetime sub will continue to pay off. So in the end, no matter how you fricken twist it, it really doesn't matter if i fully quoted him or not, nor does it matter if the players he is talking about didn't scratch the surface of the game, or not. The lifetime they just bought, will continue to pay off regardless of payment model.
Breeland goes up to what? level 21? Thats 2 weeks casual play? 1 week? Excuse me if i don't rush to drop my subscription.
If there is sufficient evidence that the company was planning to mislead consumers by releasing a product as 'lifetime' and then switching the terms of the agreement 1 month after the fact without declaring bankruptcy, it can be considered fraud. It has nothing to do with what 'deals they got', as they never agreed to pay for the bait-and-switch. Maybe some people like it...sure...but those who don't should be titled to a refund.
[Mod edit]
That is only experience from what is available on the stores of other MMOs, and can live without the TCG stuff in SWG no problems.
If they did not do the F2P scheme you'd still be stuck in the same boat, as will still be paying for stuff from the store as you see fit. The fact it is going F2p means nothing, and if you go on the F2P schem and pay for everything separtely you will be paying MORE money in total, especially if you want to stay competitive.
The later you buy the lifetime subscription the more risk you have in buying it. They could have gotten in financial problems, which resulted in the game being shut down. Its the risk you take when you buy the Lifetime subs, I have bought 2 LT subs to LOTRO, and 1 each to Champions Online and Star Trek Online, and they all pose the same threat. STO could suddenly announce next week that they are shutting it down within 2 months, and I still would not have benefitted from it, but it is the risk I took.
Even WOW went through changes a while ago, not exactly sure what it was as not following it, but it caused an uproar. Every MMO it seems always changes the game drastically at some point. If you don't like this method or playing a F2P it is one of the things that should have prevneted you from purchasing a LT sub, especially at this stage of the games life.
Once the F2PO goes in you will be glad of that Lifetime subscription, as when they do remove it, people will be beggiong for it to come back.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Before F2P, if a lifetime player came back after a year they would be exactly where they were when they left off.
After F2P, if a lifetime player came back after a year they would be exactly where they were when they left off except they would have 6,000 points accumulated because they were a lifetime subscriber.
The latter seems to offer more value for the money as you accrue rewards simply for having that premium account.
And you guys are saying they got more value for their money in the first scenario? The blind rage generated by select three-letter acronyms seems to be clouding the way some people view this.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You bought lifetime subs to CO and STO?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2