I can't help but be worried that when LotRO changes to F2P in the fall it'll bring with it some incredibly obnoxious purchasable bonus items... like flying griffon mounts or your own personal Gollum non-combat pet. I hope I'm wrong, but depending on who's pulling the strings you never know what could show up in the item-shop.
You seem to fail to remember that no matter who owns the game, they have the Tolkien estate to answer to.
5. You use the example of a P2P game adding a cash shop item to somehow say a hybrid model is worse? If Turbine wanted to add something like that it has nothing to do with the new payment model, they could have just as easily added that as the game is now, just like WoW and Everquest have done, both P2P games.
4. How is adding another option (pay as you go) somehow bad because it isn't totally free? Makes no sense. Those that don't want to pay anything will be limited, duh! Spend something and automatically become a Premium player. Want to explore later sections of the game, buy the expansions. Like things the way they are now, stay a subcription player at VIP level. Something for everyone, especially those of us with limited time or that play multiple games.
3. So you've got a game feature that really hasn't been expanded or enhanced much while the game has been subsrciption only, yet offering a hybrid model will somehow kill it? Again, this doesn't even make sense, like your first two points.
2. The devs could just as easily try to cash in on a subscription only model by adding a cash shop, it has nothing to do with the payment model. Offering more options has nothing to do with how greedy the company is. If they are willing to go that route then it doesn't matter if the game is P2P only or hybrid, they would simply add a cash shop regardless.
1. What game, which almost everyone agrees on, has the worst community? That would be a P2P game known as World of Warcraft. Most of the F2P games I've played have generally had far better communities than the P2P games. On WoW patch days, the influx of immature and obnoxious players from WoW (not saying all WoW players are like that) into Guild Wars and Runes of Magic is something to behold, or rather not, if you are lucky. While you'll find unlikeable people in any online game, the payment model has nothing to do with it. If the LotRO community is so weak that it will fall apart due to a few idiots running around being dumb, it can't be all that strong to start with. Those types of people are attention seekers and if ignored, quickly go someplace else.
So, 5 points, all very weak or just plain nonsense.
I do agree with the comments about companies using the word "FREE". It is misleading, and while technically true, its use only builds an expectation that does cause some backlash against the game unless they are very careful in making sure that there is enough content to please that part of the player base. Free Realms being a perfect example of a basically solid game with massive churn and short term players due to lack of new content, and the SOE trademark 'nerf' to the combat. FR even used 'free' in their name knowing that people, especially the target age group, would think the game was totally free, regardless of how they might try to spin the 'free to choose what you do' line. At least the FR cash shop doesn't really have anything that breaks the game, mainly because there is no real end game or PvP to break and gold is very easy to make in the game.
Sorry to crush all of the fanboy love for Turbine, but LoTRo is just another failing title. They have under 100k actual subs, not several hundred thousand as they'd have you believe via their own rumor mill and board infiltrators. Everything they do fails, and unlike DDO, LOTRO required considerable server resources to maintain.
And DDO is still horrible, note the silence the last month from Turbine regarding the 'turnaround story'. People tried it out because it was free, a few people bought stuff, most are now gone again, myself included.
If F2P really was a better option than monthly subs for a 'successful' mmo, then every successful mmo would be doing it, but they are not, because it's only for failures.
So where are your facts to back up your own rumor mill? Or are people just supposed to believe you over the company?
Considering how many new titles have said they plan on some sort of store and subscription options, I would say the model must work on some level.
One thing is for sure there will be a lot of advantige items added. Potions and all kinds of stuff.
I have watched the official forums and watched posts locked and deleted on any negative thoughts about what is and what is not going to be added in the item shop.
I would love to see what the guys in beta are seing, to bad we really will not know whats going to be in or not be in the shop, but I bet it will look a lot like the ddo shop.
Hmm, maybe since LOTRO is only a PvE game except Monster Play, the community won't be so downgraded by the standard F2P crowd. Almost all F2P games are either PvP based or have PvP available with their PvE content. Monster Play is only available to normal characters after level 40 or so. All Monsters are max level in the Ettenmoors.
No PvP in the main game world will hopefully keep the normal F2P crowd far away from LOTRO.
Sorry to crush all of the fanboy love for Turbine, but LoTRo is just another failing title. They have under 100k actual subs, not several hundred thousand as they'd have you believe via their own rumor mill and board infiltrators. Everything they do fails, and unlike DDO, LOTRO required considerable server resources to maintain.
And DDO is still horrible, note the silence the last month from Turbine regarding the 'turnaround story'. People tried it out because it was free, a few people bought stuff, most are now gone again, myself included.
If F2P really was a better option than monthly subs for a 'successful' mmo, then every successful mmo would be doing it, but they are not, because it's only for failures.
That would have been a great story, if any of it was true.
Some of you are forgetting, staying a subscriber gets you 500 points a month to use in the store yourself, and for the most part, NOTHING has changed for you.
The F2P is optional, and an ala carte system. But you can play the main storyline (epic quests) for free, forever, no restrictions.
Monster play is VIP only, until the revamp, however, please take note, participating in PvP is not Monster play, PLAYING AS ONE OF THE MONSTERS, is. You are more than welcome to walk-in there with your hobbit.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Yep definetly some of my concerns as well. im not worried @ Monster play. It was disaoppointing/bad before this and I don't think it is going to get better after the change.
Whatever happens to the game I know they will make triple the money. Even if DDO has 100k subscribers they are making triple the money off of that number than they would be making with a subscription model.
So my question i, "what will LotR:O do with triple the funds?" I wish advanced monster play but I know it wont be that.
Most of that is unfounded speculation. Turbine is not Gpotato. This is a AAA MMG that is 3ed in the west that is going free to play with an item shop. Turbine has been nothing but respectful to the IP and the DDO conversion shows they know how to do a cash shop with out cheapening a game.
Still if you follow closer to DDO item shop you will see that is more and more going towards traditional item malls. You have to use if you want to enjoy the game. So i fear this speculation arent that unfounded as you try to claim them to be.
Turbine has a track record of creating contnet and features to accomodate the wants and desires of the majority of their players. What they create is almost always done in response to player feedback. The direction of the shop will be dictate by what the players indicate, through purchases and general feedback, as their preferred model. Take that however you want to.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yep definetly some of my concerns as well. im not worried @ Monster play. It was disaoppointing/bad before this and I don't think it is going to get better after the change.
Whatever happens to the game I know they will make triple the money. Even if DDO has 100k subscribers they are making triple the money off of that number than they would be making with a subscription model.
So my question i, "what will LotR:O do with triple the funds?" I wish advanced monster play but I know it wont be that.
Monterplay is allready a confermd revamp.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Most of that is unfounded speculation. Turbine is not Gpotato. This is a AAA MMG that is 3ed in the west that is going free to play with an item shop. Turbine has been nothing but respectful to the IP and the DDO conversion shows they know how to do a cash shop with out cheapening a game.
Still if you follow closer to DDO item shop you will see that is more and more going towards traditional item malls. You have to use if you want to enjoy the game. So i fear this speculation arent that unfounded as you try to claim them to be.
People want to much, for nothing. There isn't anything game breaking or imbalanceing in DDO.
People also care WAY to dam much what others are doing in an entertainment product, especially when it has zero impact on them, or there game play.
Too true.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
nothing in life is free. the f2p system they have will be cheaper than paying 15 a month and you can still enjoy everything if you don't power through the content.
- Turbine Designer: "We can spend 400 man-hours creating a new high level content area for existing VIP accounts. By numbers these comprise 20% of existing game accounts. We can probably even charge them $5 in the cash shop. Option #2, we can spend about 30 minutes reskinning an existing low level item which we already have in the cash shop and sell it off because it looks "cool". With our current "churn" about 80% of our existing player base is low level accounts who try out the game for a few days F2P before deciding to move on to other things. Many of these make at least a couple cash shop purchases before they go. Which project do you want me to priortize?"
Turbine/WB Exec: "ROFL"
.....
- Community Manager: "I keep issuing bans to these greifers/hackers but the same people just keep showing up under new accounts and causing problems. I need you to design something that will fix this."
Turbine Designer: "Well lets see, we don't require any payment to get the client or a product key to create an account and access the servers. So there is no cost involved with creating as many accounts as you like. We don't require an account holder to enter Credit Card info, so we have no idea who they actual are. How do you propose I determine the person creating a new account isn't some-one you've already banned 37 times?"
Community Manager: "Don't we require you register a valid, unique e-mail address when creating accounts?"
Turbine Designer: "Yes, I'll get right on the phone to G-mail and tell them to stop issuing free, anonymous e-mail accounts to people"
......
Turbine/WB Exec: "We're falling short of revenue goals by about 5% this quarter. In your next patch, please reduce XP awards by 5% across the board and put an advertisement in the item shop that we have a special on XP boost potions this month for $.25 for a 1 Hour Duration Potion."
Turbine Designer: "So effectively, we're increasing the monthly fees for our VIP's by 5%?"
Turbine/WB Exec: "Oh no, we're simply adjusting 'game mechanics to smooth out the leveling curve' and running an unrelated special in our store. It's COMPLETELY different. Charlie...get accounting on the phone. Tell them to increase monthly revenue projections for VIP's upwards by 5%."
......
Turbine Banner Add: "Boost your XP by 30%. The first potion is FREE!"
Most of that is unfounded speculation. Turbine is not Gpotato. This is a AAA MMG that is 3ed in the west that is going free to play with an item shop. Turbine has been nothing but respectful to the IP and the DDO conversion shows they know how to do a cash shop with out cheapening a game.
This is TURBINE, one of the forefathers of this industry, in fact, they are responsible for most "standard" features of the mmos we play and enjoy today (Hows that GUI working for you?). They were the pioneers then, and are continuing to be so now.
Thats where you're wrong about Turbine not being like Gpotato. Turbine has already started down the greedy path with DDO and it will only get worse with Lotro sad to say. I had several characters and different races in DDO and got locked out of them once the F2P model hit the servers and they want me to pay for something I already had? No thanks. The same will happen with my Lotro characters I'm sure, even though I have a founders account and had played it all the way from alpha testing.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2 I think you forgot a few..... - Turbine Designer: "We can spend 400 man-hours creating a new high level content area for existing VIP accounts. By numbers these comprise 20% of existing game accounts. We can probably even charge them $5 in the cash shop. Option #2, we can spend about 30 minutes reskinning an existing low level item which we already have in the cash shop and sell it off because it looks "cool". With our current "churn" about 80% of our existing player base is low level accounts who try out the game for a few days F2P before deciding to move on to other things. Many of these make at least a couple cash shop purchases before they go. Which project do you want me to priortize?" Turbine/WB Exec: "ROFL" ..... - Community Manager: "I keep issuing bans to these greifers/hackers but the same people just keep showing up under new accounts and causing problems. I need you to design something that will fix this." Turbine Designer: "Well lets see, we don't require any payment to get the client or a product key to create an account and access the servers. So there is no cost involved with creating as many accounts as you like. We don't require an account holder to enter Credit Card info, so we have no idea who they actual are. How do you propose I determine the person creating a new account isn't some-one you've already banned 37 times?" Community Manager: "Don't we require you register a valid, unique e-mail address when creating accounts?"
Turbine Designer: "Yes, I'll get right on the phone to G-mail and tell them to stop issuing free, anonymous e-mail accounts to people" ...... Turbine/WB Exec: "We're falling short of revenue goals by about 5% this quarter. In your next patch, please reduce XP awards by 5% across the board and put an advertisement in the item shop that we have a special on XP boost potions this month for $.25 for a 1 Hour Duration Potion." Turbine Designer: "So effectively, we're increasing the monthly fees for our VIP's by 5%?" Turbine/WB Exec: "Oh no, we're simply adjusting 'game mechanics to smooth out the leveling curve' and running an unrelated special in our store. It's COMPLETELY different. Charlie...get accounting on the phone. Tell them to increase monthly revenue projections for VIP's upwards by 5%." ...... Turbine Banner Add: "Boost your XP by 30%. The first potion is FREE!"
Turbine did the right thing in making DDO F2P, it revitalised the game, brought in many more subscribing players than F2P players and on the whole the game has flourished, as has the community, it certainly hasn't crashed and burned, as the OP would have you believe will happen to LoTRO.
Why would Turbine suddenly bring in flying mounts? the OP is being overly dramatic in driving home the greed of Blizzards store, Blizzard produced a wonderful game, they hooked in millions of players but then they wanted more from their subscribers by offering them mouth watering items from their store, knowing full well that their target audience of teens would kick and scream until mum or dad coughed up the cash to buy the latest must have items, sad and pathetic really, but it brings in extra revenue.
As it stands I really can't see the points raised by the OP coming to pass, I do suspect the OP has an axe to grind about F2P over P2p though.
Personally I prefer to pay my monthly sub and have access to everything I had before, I'm am also not easily given to flights of fancy by buying items that can be gained within the game, or items such as vainty pets which to me are just a waste of developer resources, but I know some players love to collect them, well it's not really collecting them as just having enough cash to buy them all.
Anyway good on Turbine to take a chance on another of theor AAA titles, lets hope more do the same, though I highly doubt WoW will ever follow suit.
One thing is for sure there will be a lot of advantige items added. Potions and all kinds of stuff.
I have watched the official forums and watched posts locked and deleted on any negative thoughts about what is and what is not going to be added in the item shop.
I would love to see what the guys in beta are seing, to bad we really will not know whats going to be in or not be in the shop, but I bet it will look a lot like the ddo shop.
How do you define advantage items? End game better than available to folks not wanting to pay...er no. They have clearly stated that. Convenience items such as health or power potions that you can craft yourself or farm or buy at NPC, yea, bet they are there all day long. Most likely lot of other convenience/cosmetic type items as well (heck I bet rep horses are there if you have the rep - So if you are saying will they give people a chance to pay money rather than grind some stuff....probably so. If you are saying they will make you buy something in order to play end game....no. Is the game gimped on F2P - yea seems like it. But then the whole point is to get you to buy a monthly sub.
As far as the forums, you are just plain wrong on that. As far as I can see there is nothting different than before. Make a constructive post (even if it is critical it stays up.) There are LOTS of well written posts by folks that have specific dislikes with supporting facts or arguements on the forums right this second. www.lotro.com Rules seems to be if it supports or encourages open conversation it is left alone. Nerd rage or Troll and yea they will close the worst of those. I for one, appreciate that. Cuts down on the noise. However, Turbine devs post way more often then devs from others game forums.
Turbine Network Engineer: "So with this new F2P model we're getting lots more traffic. In fact, server traffic has increased by about 300% on average."
Turbine/WB Exec: "That's AWESOME... I knew that I was a GENIUS!"
Turbine Network Engineer: "Yes, I'm sure this is great for the business. Now I just need your approval for provision of more hardware to handle all this increased load."
Turbine CFO: "Hold on a second George. Yes we've got triple the traffic, but only half of them are spending ANYTHING in the store."
Turbine/WB Exec: "Well our gross revenues have still gone up, getting sales from 50% of the new traffic is better then not getting any new sales at all, isn't it?"
Turbine CFO: "Yes very much so. However our origional expenditure projects were based on an average income of $10 per user. With that rate, we covered our expenses and made a healthy profit on each user. However, under the new model our average revenue has gone down to a level of $5.75 per user. That has made our margins very tight. We're still ok, given the volume we are doing...However if we increase our overhead per user much, we'll risk going into a negative margin and start operating at a loss. What we really need to do is find a way to REDUCE our expenditure per user account, not increase it."
Turbine Network Engineer: "So what does that mean for provision of new resources. What do I do about our increasing server load?"
Turbine did the right thing in making DDO F2P, it revitalised the game, brought in many more subscribing players than F2P players and on the whole the game has flourished, as has the community, it certainly hasn't crashed and burned, as the OP would have you believe will happen to LoTRO.
Why would Turbine suddenly bring in flying mounts? the OP is being overly dramatic in driving home the greed of Blizzards store, Blizzard produced a wonderful game, they hooked in millions of players but then they wanted more from their subscribers by offering them mouth watering items from their store, knowing full well that their target audience of teens would kick and scream until mum or dad coughed up the cash to buy the latest must have items, sad and pathetic really, but it brings in extra revenue.
As it stands I really can't see the points raised by the OP coming to pass, I do suspect the OP has an axe to grind about F2P over P2p though.
Personally I prefer to pay my monthly sub and have access to everything I had before, I'm am also not easily given to flights of fancy by buying items that can be gained within the game, or items such as vainty pets which to me are just a waste of developer resources, but I know some players love to collect them, well it's not really collecting them as just having enough cash to buy them all.
Anyway good on Turbine to take a chance on another of theor AAA titles, lets hope more do the same, though I highly doubt WoW will ever follow suit.
Right, because the WARNER BRO's executives who now own and control Turbine would never try and push things too far?
Turbine USED to have a great reputation as a developer in my book. They've done some things that have really tarnished thier reputation, as far as I am concerned, in the last couple of years. We can have a side discussion about that if you like. However as far as I'm concerned it's academic. Even if you still have rock solid faith in Turbine.... They aren't calling thier own shots anymore. They are now a subsidiary of Warner Bros. Meaning Time Warner has ultimate control over what happens in LOTRO now.
I'm not saying that they definately will FUBAR the game as we know it with this change....but you can't seriously pretend that the POSSIBILTY that they will doesn't exist.
Meanwhile I'll keep watching for "Tom Bombadil meets the Browns." and "Tyler Perry's House of Gorgoroth".
Suppose it could be worse, we could have gotten "Real House Wives of Umbar" instead.
3 of the points are essentially duplicates and not worth addressing. That leaves:
Death to Monster Play
Death to the community.
In a nutshell, good and ain't happening.
(Remainder snipped...)
I would have to say that this almost sums up my view. I actually don't think Monster Play will die, although I strongly feel that doing so would not greatly harm the overall player base. It occurred to me that perhaps there is a price to pay for fighting on the side of Sauron...
(ducks)
As for the community, I think RP-oriented servers like Landroval will (overall) maintain that sense of immersion, and I can see the community already becoming more close-knit. For new players that read forums (although many do not), it won't take long to find out which servers are more RP than others. Other than that, friendly long-term players can advise newbies that react badly after starting up on an RP-oriented server, and kindly suggest other servers that might be more to their tastes. However, those same lifetimers and long-term players on Landroval, and on every server, will definitely welcome anyone who is nice. That's all players really expect on every LoTRO server; just be nice to each other. Reporting abuse actually WORKS in this game, so I'd guess that most players aren't really worried.
If there's one community that can not only survive the influx from FtP but actually thrive from it, you'll find that community in LoTRO. Keep in mind that many "new" FtP and Premium players will actually be returning, eager to walk the fields of the Shire once more.
But as far as Landroval goes, Turbine had some announcement 2 days ago that 3 of their servers are at maximum capacity and are going to be "locked". No new transfers and no new toons can join them and Landroval was one of the three servers. Landroval is safe:)
I do worry about the other servers but I don't think it'll be as bad as some folks think. I can't imagine the rude, obnoxious folks STAYING in LoTRO. I think their visit will be short lived because LoTRO isn't the kind of game that appeals to them. No bikini thong armor or purple 3 headed monsters in LoTRO, ya know:)
The no PvMP bothers me and I don't PvMP.. They shouldn't disallow the F2P ppl from playing it. If anyone is going to spend cash in the shops, it's the PvP'ers because they tend to be more enthusuastic that the PvE'rs are. I know the current Moors region can be very laggy and it probably couldn't handle hundreds of Creeps coming in if they let the F2P'ers make a 65 Creep player. I think they could do an alternate Moors region for the F2P players and have it be level 50. Just to let them see what it's like and tempt them into paying for the VIP service.
Most of that is unfounded speculation. Turbine is not Gpotato. This is a AAA MMG that is 3ed in the west that is going free to play with an item shop. Turbine has been nothing but respectful to the IP and the DDO conversion shows they know how to do a cash shop with out cheapening a game.
This is TURBINE, one of the forefathers of this industry, in fact, they are responsible for most "standard" features of the mmos we play and enjoy today (Hows that GUI working for you?). They were the pioneers then, and are continuing to be so now.
Here, let me fix this for you. "This is TURBINE, a subsidiary of Time Warner, Inc (tm)."
Meaning Time Warner has ultimate control over what happens in LOTRO now.
If you're gonna come in with a hate on for Turbine and Time Warner, that's fine, but at least get your facts straight. Time Warner, Turbine, and EA before them all have to answer to the Tolkien Estate, so Time Warner does NOT have ultimate control now.
Comments
I can't help but be worried that when LotRO changes to F2P in the fall it'll bring with it some incredibly obnoxious purchasable bonus items... like flying griffon mounts or your own personal Gollum non-combat pet. I hope I'm wrong, but depending on who's pulling the strings you never know what could show up in the item-shop.
You seem to fail to remember that no matter who owns the game, they have the Tolkien estate to answer to.
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5. You use the example of a P2P game adding a cash shop item to somehow say a hybrid model is worse? If Turbine wanted to add something like that it has nothing to do with the new payment model, they could have just as easily added that as the game is now, just like WoW and Everquest have done, both P2P games.
4. How is adding another option (pay as you go) somehow bad because it isn't totally free? Makes no sense. Those that don't want to pay anything will be limited, duh! Spend something and automatically become a Premium player. Want to explore later sections of the game, buy the expansions. Like things the way they are now, stay a subcription player at VIP level. Something for everyone, especially those of us with limited time or that play multiple games.
3. So you've got a game feature that really hasn't been expanded or enhanced much while the game has been subsrciption only, yet offering a hybrid model will somehow kill it? Again, this doesn't even make sense, like your first two points.
2. The devs could just as easily try to cash in on a subscription only model by adding a cash shop, it has nothing to do with the payment model. Offering more options has nothing to do with how greedy the company is. If they are willing to go that route then it doesn't matter if the game is P2P only or hybrid, they would simply add a cash shop regardless.
1. What game, which almost everyone agrees on, has the worst community? That would be a P2P game known as World of Warcraft. Most of the F2P games I've played have generally had far better communities than the P2P games. On WoW patch days, the influx of immature and obnoxious players from WoW (not saying all WoW players are like that) into Guild Wars and Runes of Magic is something to behold, or rather not, if you are lucky. While you'll find unlikeable people in any online game, the payment model has nothing to do with it. If the LotRO community is so weak that it will fall apart due to a few idiots running around being dumb, it can't be all that strong to start with. Those types of people are attention seekers and if ignored, quickly go someplace else.
So, 5 points, all very weak or just plain nonsense.
I do agree with the comments about companies using the word "FREE". It is misleading, and while technically true, its use only builds an expectation that does cause some backlash against the game unless they are very careful in making sure that there is enough content to please that part of the player base. Free Realms being a perfect example of a basically solid game with massive churn and short term players due to lack of new content, and the SOE trademark 'nerf' to the combat. FR even used 'free' in their name knowing that people, especially the target age group, would think the game was totally free, regardless of how they might try to spin the 'free to choose what you do' line. At least the FR cash shop doesn't really have anything that breaks the game, mainly because there is no real end game or PvP to break and gold is very easy to make in the game.
So where are your facts to back up your own rumor mill? Or are people just supposed to believe you over the company?
Considering how many new titles have said they plan on some sort of store and subscription options, I would say the model must work on some level.
One thing is for sure there will be a lot of advantige items added. Potions and all kinds of stuff.
I have watched the official forums and watched posts locked and deleted on any negative thoughts about what is and what is not going to be added in the item shop.
I would love to see what the guys in beta are seing, to bad we really will not know whats going to be in or not be in the shop, but I bet it will look a lot like the ddo shop.
Hmm, maybe since LOTRO is only a PvE game except Monster Play, the community won't be so downgraded by the standard F2P crowd. Almost all F2P games are either PvP based or have PvP available with their PvE content. Monster Play is only available to normal characters after level 40 or so. All Monsters are max level in the Ettenmoors.
No PvP in the main game world will hopefully keep the normal F2P crowd far away from LOTRO.
MMORPG -- Where's the RP?
That would have been a great story, if any of it was true.
"MT: That's right, Dungeons & Dragons Online right now is about eight percent of the market, LOTRO is number eight in the marketplace with five percent. Combined, thirteen percent of MMO gamers are playing Turbine games. That positions Warner Bros. right away in MMOs, and that's clearly a direction we're headed in the future."
Some of you are forgetting, staying a subscriber gets you 500 points a month to use in the store yourself, and for the most part, NOTHING has changed for you.
The F2P is optional, and an ala carte system. But you can play the main storyline (epic quests) for free, forever, no restrictions.
Monster play is VIP only, until the revamp, however, please take note, participating in PvP is not Monster play, PLAYING AS ONE OF THE MONSTERS, is. You are more than welcome to walk-in there with your hobbit.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Yep definetly some of my concerns as well. im not worried @ Monster play. It was disaoppointing/bad before this and I don't think it is going to get better after the change.
Whatever happens to the game I know they will make triple the money. Even if DDO has 100k subscribers they are making triple the money off of that number than they would be making with a subscription model.
So my question i, "what will LotR:O do with triple the funds?" I wish advanced monster play but I know it wont be that.
Turbine has a track record of creating contnet and features to accomodate the wants and desires of the majority of their players. What they create is almost always done in response to player feedback. The direction of the shop will be dictate by what the players indicate, through purchases and general feedback, as their preferred model. Take that however you want to.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Monterplay is allready a confermd revamp.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Ohhh...? NIce. Thanks for the heads up on Monster Play, Mr. Bloodworth
Too true.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
nothing in life is free. the f2p system they have will be cheaper than paying 15 a month and you can still enjoy everything if you don't power through the content.
I think you forgot a few.....
- Turbine Designer: "We can spend 400 man-hours creating a new high level content area for existing VIP accounts. By numbers these comprise 20% of existing game accounts. We can probably even charge them $5 in the cash shop. Option #2, we can spend about 30 minutes reskinning an existing low level item which we already have in the cash shop and sell it off because it looks "cool". With our current "churn" about 80% of our existing player base is low level accounts who try out the game for a few days F2P before deciding to move on to other things. Many of these make at least a couple cash shop purchases before they go. Which project do you want me to priortize?"
Turbine/WB Exec: "ROFL"
.....
- Community Manager: "I keep issuing bans to these greifers/hackers but the same people just keep showing up under new accounts and causing problems. I need you to design something that will fix this."
Turbine Designer: "Well lets see, we don't require any payment to get the client or a product key to create an account and access the servers. So there is no cost involved with creating as many accounts as you like. We don't require an account holder to enter Credit Card info, so we have no idea who they actual are. How do you propose I determine the person creating a new account isn't some-one you've already banned 37 times?"
Community Manager: "Don't we require you register a valid, unique e-mail address when creating accounts?"
Turbine Designer: "Yes, I'll get right on the phone to G-mail and tell them to stop issuing free, anonymous e-mail accounts to people"
......
Turbine/WB Exec: "We're falling short of revenue goals by about 5% this quarter. In your next patch, please reduce XP awards by 5% across the board and put an advertisement in the item shop that we have a special on XP boost potions this month for $.25 for a 1 Hour Duration Potion."
Turbine Designer: "So effectively, we're increasing the monthly fees for our VIP's by 5%?"
Turbine/WB Exec: "Oh no, we're simply adjusting 'game mechanics to smooth out the leveling curve' and running an unrelated special in our store. It's COMPLETELY different. Charlie...get accounting on the phone. Tell them to increase monthly revenue projections for VIP's upwards by 5%."
......
Turbine Banner Add: "Boost your XP by 30%. The first potion is FREE!"
Thats where you're wrong about Turbine not being like Gpotato. Turbine has already started down the greedy path with DDO and it will only get worse with Lotro sad to say. I had several characters and different races in DDO and got locked out of them once the F2P model hit the servers and they want me to pay for something I already had? No thanks. The same will happen with my Lotro characters I'm sure, even though I have a founders account and had played it all the way from alpha testing.
If you subscribe, NOTHING CHANGES.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
hahahahahahah Nice post, made me spit up my coke!
Has the OP played DDO lately? hmm I wonder.
Turbine did the right thing in making DDO F2P, it revitalised the game, brought in many more subscribing players than F2P players and on the whole the game has flourished, as has the community, it certainly hasn't crashed and burned, as the OP would have you believe will happen to LoTRO.
Why would Turbine suddenly bring in flying mounts? the OP is being overly dramatic in driving home the greed of Blizzards store, Blizzard produced a wonderful game, they hooked in millions of players but then they wanted more from their subscribers by offering them mouth watering items from their store, knowing full well that their target audience of teens would kick and scream until mum or dad coughed up the cash to buy the latest must have items, sad and pathetic really, but it brings in extra revenue.
As it stands I really can't see the points raised by the OP coming to pass, I do suspect the OP has an axe to grind about F2P over P2p though.
Personally I prefer to pay my monthly sub and have access to everything I had before, I'm am also not easily given to flights of fancy by buying items that can be gained within the game, or items such as vainty pets which to me are just a waste of developer resources, but I know some players love to collect them, well it's not really collecting them as just having enough cash to buy them all.
Anyway good on Turbine to take a chance on another of theor AAA titles, lets hope more do the same, though I highly doubt WoW will ever follow suit.
How do you define advantage items? End game better than available to folks not wanting to pay...er no. They have clearly stated that. Convenience items such as health or power potions that you can craft yourself or farm or buy at NPC, yea, bet they are there all day long. Most likely lot of other convenience/cosmetic type items as well (heck I bet rep horses are there if you have the rep - So if you are saying will they give people a chance to pay money rather than grind some stuff....probably so. If you are saying they will make you buy something in order to play end game....no. Is the game gimped on F2P - yea seems like it. But then the whole point is to get you to buy a monthly sub.
As far as the forums, you are just plain wrong on that. As far as I can see there is nothting different than before. Make a constructive post (even if it is critical it stays up.) There are LOTS of well written posts by folks that have specific dislikes with supporting facts or arguements on the forums right this second. www.lotro.com Rules seems to be if it supports or encourages open conversation it is left alone. Nerd rage or Troll and yea they will close the worst of those. I for one, appreciate that. Cuts down on the noise. However, Turbine devs post way more often then devs from others game forums.
Here's another one....
Turbine Network Engineer: "So with this new F2P model we're getting lots more traffic. In fact, server traffic has increased by about 300% on average."
Turbine/WB Exec: "That's AWESOME... I knew that I was a GENIUS!"
Turbine Network Engineer: "Yes, I'm sure this is great for the business. Now I just need your approval for provision of more hardware to handle all this increased load."
Turbine CFO: "Hold on a second George. Yes we've got triple the traffic, but only half of them are spending ANYTHING in the store."
Turbine/WB Exec: "Well our gross revenues have still gone up, getting sales from 50% of the new traffic is better then not getting any new sales at all, isn't it?"
Turbine CFO: "Yes very much so. However our origional expenditure projects were based on an average income of $10 per user. With that rate, we covered our expenses and made a healthy profit on each user. However, under the new model our average revenue has gone down to a level of $5.75 per user. That has made our margins very tight. We're still ok, given the volume we are doing...However if we increase our overhead per user much, we'll risk going into a negative margin and start operating at a loss. What we really need to do is find a way to REDUCE our expenditure per user account, not increase it."
Turbine Network Engineer: "So what does that mean for provision of new resources. What do I do about our increasing server load?"
Turbine CFO: "Here, have a COUGH DROP."
Right, because the WARNER BRO's executives who now own and control Turbine would never try and push things too far?
Turbine USED to have a great reputation as a developer in my book. They've done some things that have really tarnished thier reputation, as far as I am concerned, in the last couple of years. We can have a side discussion about that if you like. However as far as I'm concerned it's academic. Even if you still have rock solid faith in Turbine.... They aren't calling thier own shots anymore. They are now a subsidiary of Warner Bros. Meaning Time Warner has ultimate control over what happens in LOTRO now.
I'm not saying that they definately will FUBAR the game as we know it with this change....but you can't seriously pretend that the POSSIBILTY that they will doesn't exist.
Meanwhile I'll keep watching for "Tom Bombadil meets the Browns." and "Tyler Perry's House of Gorgoroth".
Suppose it could be worse, we could have gotten "Real House Wives of Umbar" instead.
According to the same people who said there would be no overt magic use in LOTRO and that the game was NOT going to go F2P? Gee, that's comforting.
I would have to say that this almost sums up my view. I actually don't think Monster Play will die, although I strongly feel that doing so would not greatly harm the overall player base. It occurred to me that perhaps there is a price to pay for fighting on the side of Sauron...
(ducks)
As for the community, I think RP-oriented servers like Landroval will (overall) maintain that sense of immersion, and I can see the community already becoming more close-knit. For new players that read forums (although many do not), it won't take long to find out which servers are more RP than others. Other than that, friendly long-term players can advise newbies that react badly after starting up on an RP-oriented server, and kindly suggest other servers that might be more to their tastes. However, those same lifetimers and long-term players on Landroval, and on every server, will definitely welcome anyone who is nice. That's all players really expect on every LoTRO server; just be nice to each other. Reporting abuse actually WORKS in this game, so I'd guess that most players aren't really worried.
If there's one community that can not only survive the influx from FtP but actually thrive from it, you'll find that community in LoTRO. Keep in mind that many "new" FtP and Premium players will actually be returning, eager to walk the fields of the Shire once more.
1 + 3 are my concerns: Community and PvP.
But as far as Landroval goes, Turbine had some announcement 2 days ago that 3 of their servers are at maximum capacity and are going to be "locked". No new transfers and no new toons can join them and Landroval was one of the three servers. Landroval is safe:)
I do worry about the other servers but I don't think it'll be as bad as some folks think. I can't imagine the rude, obnoxious folks STAYING in LoTRO. I think their visit will be short lived because LoTRO isn't the kind of game that appeals to them. No bikini thong armor or purple 3 headed monsters in LoTRO, ya know:)
The no PvMP bothers me and I don't PvMP.. They shouldn't disallow the F2P ppl from playing it. If anyone is going to spend cash in the shops, it's the PvP'ers because they tend to be more enthusuastic that the PvE'rs are. I know the current Moors region can be very laggy and it probably couldn't handle hundreds of Creeps coming in if they let the F2P'ers make a 65 Creep player. I think they could do an alternate Moors region for the F2P players and have it be level 50. Just to let them see what it's like and tempt them into paying for the VIP service.
Here, let me fix this for you. "This is TURBINE, a subsidiary of Time Warner, Inc (tm)."
If you're gonna come in with a hate on for Turbine and Time Warner, that's fine, but at least get your facts straight. Time Warner, Turbine, and EA before them all have to answer to the Tolkien Estate, so Time Warner does NOT have ultimate control now.