The combat animation may eventually become more fluid, but you can't blame people not being overly impressed after watching a video of two characters standing 10 feet apart in the wide open shooting blasters at each other. I watch combat videos of other MMO's like Guild Wars 2 and TERA, which are both in alpha stages as well, but the action presented seems much more lively than what I've seen from SWTOR so far. It's BioWare's job to put out better game footage to get people interested and not up to the viewers to speculate whether or not it's going to be better later on. I can only base my opinion on what I see at this point, and so far it's not that exciting.
I completely agree. However, its one thing to have an opinion about the combat animations (which is fair enough, the game still has 10 months or so to go yet). But its another thing to critisise people for making a video about their own personal opinion or to critisise how SWTOR is in some respects echo'ing some of the combat mechanics used in other games AND THEN adding their own complexities on top.
To point fingers at one game because it follows the rest in terms of a mechanic is just plain silly.
Well, I think Teala does make a valid point about the video taking shots at other MMO's where the combat is rather static, and then showing combat from SWTOR showing the same type of combat that they were criticising. I think the weapon collision features are cool and show some definite promise, but the combat was still basically stationary, face-to-face sword hacking. If you think the video's opinion is flawed, they shouldn't be immune to criticism.
This is what makes me roll my eyes at Bioware. They go out of their way to rag on traditional mmorpg combat systems, and talk about how their combat is more fluid and dynamic (paraphrasing). However, in the videos that they show us of SWTOR it has the same static combat. Yes the lighting effects are very nice, for the Jedi/Sith, but it's still the same hack n slash we see in all mmorpgs.
I don't mind if that's what they use, it has worked for over a decade now, but don't blatantly rip on another game that uses a mechanic that is present within your own game. Bioware is being disingenuous about their combat system.
I understand they want to hype their game, that's fine and it's to be expected. However, don't be a bunch of arrogant asses about it, especially when you're using mechanics present in nearly all other mmorpgs.
If your referring to the video posted in this thread, it wasn't an official one. It was made by someone who likes the game, and spliced footage from other games in himself.
Ummm the voices in the vid were from BioWares own developers talking about the combat. Seriously, take off you rose colored glasses and now take out your ear plugs as well.
All I can say is that I will make my judgement on this game when I can get my hands on it and experience it for myself. A few videos here and there don't tell the whole story.
As far as the art style, some videos I have seen make me really like it and others make me think it needs work. I just really think it's still too early to make a final judgement.
Same here, better to wait and play it then if its not great atleast I get a single player experience Bioware is good at that. As opposed to simply attacking it without well draw out arguements which, lets be honest, there does not exsist enough info to formulate as yet.
I wonder how many people who attack games, like TOR, actually go out and buy in come launch day.
They react in WoW as well when hit. Seriously. SW:ToR's combat is not ground breaking and it is not really any better than what has come before. In fact it is the same. The only difference is in SW:ToR you use light sabers and in WoW or Aion you use, swords and axes and such.
They may well do. But its often out of sync, and THAT is the difference.
No one is insinuating that Bioware are doing anything drastically ground breaking. Not even Bioware are, hence why they referred to comparisons with WoW. And in my opinion they'd be stupid to do so. But what they ARE doing is emulating what Blizzard did: take tried and tested mechanics, refine them and evolve them.
And from what I'm seeing so far, that's precisely what they've done. SWTOR ain't going to be noted for breaking lots of new ground (aside from the volume of story arcs and voice overs in the game), but it MAY be recognised in the future as being POSSIBLY the one that got closest so far to the WoW level of overall quality. Something that many others can't seem to get right.
But who knows, they may even managed to surpass the WoW level of quality by making a game with a good foundation on which they can build upon and make more complex. THAT is when they break new ground.
Ummm the voices in the vid were from BioWares own developer about the combat. Seriously, take off you rose colored glasses and now take out your ear plugs as well.
I think it makes as much chance as you taking off your black tinted glasses. Seriously, this way the debate will only go on in ever more extreme viewpoints, try to be as fair and objective as you want others to be.
For 1 thing, the combat: yes, it has elements that are the same as the current school of MMO's, it also has changes and adjustments in which it is different from the current school of MMO's. As long as you can't acknowledge a simple truism as that, which can be seen and concluded pretty easily objectively, then the discussion will continue with the same extreme arguments that we all dislike, and you will continue to be attacked for your heavily onesidedness and biasedness in your posts. Why? Because you don't show your opinion to be more than only that.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Same here, better to wait and play it then if its not great atleast I get a single player experience Bioware is good at that. As opposed to simply attacking it without well draw out arguements which, lets be honest, there does not exsist enough info to formulate as yet.
I wonder how many people who attack games, like TOR, actually go out and buy in come launch day.
Probably the majority, if nothing else but to come on here a month later to scream how they hate it (because then paying for it gives them justification to whine). Kinda sad really.
Ummm the voices in the vid were from BioWares own developers talking about the combat. Seriously, take off you rose colored glasses and now take out your ear plugs as well.
Watch the video again Teala rather than throwing insults around. Yes the developers were in the video, as was shots of WoW. But does that mean Blizzard or Bioware actually made the video? No.
Check the final text that appears on the end of the video ( 7: 10) . Didn't it say "I think so"?
*I* ....if it was Bioware making the video they would have said "we" wouldn't they?
Quote from the original maker of that video on Youtube:
"The example of animations I used was indicative to what a player at level 1 to 8 would see in their respective games as that is the level of game play being compared to the TOR clips ..... "
So what does all this tell you?
That he doesn't work for Bioware and the video isn't official. It's been spliced together by someone using footage from the official videos, and from other MMO games (not to mention Star Trek music which any company would have to normally pay for). Therefore the text you see on the video is something HE added, hence his opinion at the end.
If Bioware HAD made this video they would get their asses sued by Paramount (because of using the ST original series music), Cryptic, Blizzard, SOE and others for liable.
From what we have seen of people that have played smugglers using the cover ability it doesn't seem to stop damage but work more like a buff. So while originally I thought this would add a very nice feature to the game of ducking behind cover to avoid getting shot that doesn't appear to be how it works. It seems to be more like a stealth skill that allows you to use certain special abilities while this action is activiated. It may even allow for some damage reduction (I haven't seen anything confirmed on this but it has to make some sence) specially with the portable shield walls that must work like the troopers shield.
While their maybe some flinching when shot in the face or so we haven't yet seen anything like the SWG's (pre cu) where the character would dodge or parry a blow if their skill was sufficient above and beyond lightsaber blocking. We also don't appear to have seen any manual ability to block as is becoming more common in MMO's. This though could be cause of the ranged element makes it hard to block with a blaster pistol.
But cause of this I don't think we will see much new in the form of combat, and for fans of WoW or EQ this maybe exactly what they are looking for. It would be crazy though to suggest the game is going to be something that it isn't. It will be a traditional MMO with more a more traditional style MMO combat system with a lot of polish. Personally I worry that come 2011 with the releases of games like FFXIV, DC online and Tera it may start looking a little slow or lacking in skill where auto face and stationary combat is no longer considered all that. But perhaps its no looking for those gamers but rather than those that like a slower pace with an enjoyable story. Such as those gamers that prefer a good book over watching a football game.
Same here, better to wait and play it then if its not great atleast I get a single player experience Bioware is good at that. As opposed to simply attacking it without well draw out arguements which, lets be honest, there does not exsist enough info to formulate as yet.
I wonder how many people who attack games, like TOR, actually go out and buy in come launch day.
Probably the majority, if nothing else but to come on here a month later to scream how they hate it (because then paying for it gives them justification to whine). Kinda sad really.
Thus we have STO all over again. IF one truely doesnt like what they see; just dont buy the game. Buying it to whine afterwards with "braging rights" is almost moronic.
It's kinda funny... every time I see some whiner complaining about this game, it just makes me feel better about it. Why? Because it just highlights the kind of person I will not have to deal with in-game.
Whine and cry all you want, but know this: We're going to have a blast without you. Go waste your time elsewhere.
The combat animation may eventually become more fluid, but you can't blame people not being overly impressed after watching a video of two characters standing 10 feet apart in the wide open shooting blasters at each other. I watch combat videos of other MMO's like Guild Wars 2 and TERA, which are both in alpha stages as well, but the action presented seems much more lively than what I've seen from SWTOR so far. It's BioWare's job to put out better game footage to get people interested and not up to the viewers to speculate whether or not it's going to be better later on. I can only base my opinion on what I see at this point, and so far it's not that exciting.
I completely agree. However, its one thing to have an opinion about the combat animations (which is fair enough, the game still has 10 months or so to go yet). But its another thing to critisise people for making a video about their own personal opinion or to critisise how SWTOR is in some respects echo'ing some of the combat mechanics used in other games AND THEN adding their own complexities on top.
To point fingers at one game because it follows the rest in terms of a mechanic is just plain silly.
Well, I think Teala does make a valid point about the video taking shots at other MMO's where the combat is rather static, and then showing combat from SWTOR showing the same type of combat that they were criticising. I think the weapon collision features are cool and show some definite promise, but the combat was still basically stationary, face-to-face sword hacking. If you think the video's opinion is flawed, they shouldn't be immune to criticism.
This is what makes me roll my eyes at Bioware. They go out of their way to rag on traditional mmorpg combat systems, and talk about how their combat is more fluid and dynamic (paraphrasing). However, in the videos that they show us of SWTOR it has the same static combat. Yes the lighting effects are very nice, for the Jedi/Sith, but it's still the same hack n slash we see in all mmorpgs.
I don't mind if that's what they use, it has worked for over a decade now, but don't blatantly rip on another game that uses a mechanic that is present within your own game. Bioware is being disingenuous about their combat system.
I understand they want to hype their game, that's fine and it's to be expected. However, don't be a bunch of arrogant asses about it, especially when you're using mechanics present in nearly all other mmorpgs.
If your referring to the video posted in this thread, it wasn't an official one. It was made by someone who likes the game, and spliced footage from other games in himself.
I was actually referencing the numerous comments actually made by Bioware, some of those comments were in the video posted. However, the Combat Preview video is mostly what I was referring to. The video posted in this thread had an obvious agenda, I can't speak for the STO or EQ2 clips, but the WoW clips were of a pet and a npc mob fighting. If the WoW clips had shown something like a warrior, death knight, paladin or a rogue fighting an npc mob, that would have been a more genuine comparison.
The Combat video with the devs speaking in between the video clips and during actually made me laugh though. Much of what they were bashing was being shown in their combat clips. Don't get me wrong, I don't really care, I just found it extremely ironic that they would go out of their way to actually disparage other games while repeating the same mechanics.
I will admit, again, that the lighting effects are spectacular when it comes to Light Saber combat.
I just grow weary of developers bashing each other to try to make themselves look good. If you want to hype your game, do it, but do so based upon the merits of your game. I have flashbacks of the hype master Paul Barnett...leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
The combat animation may eventually become more fluid, but you can't blame people not being overly impressed after watching a video of two characters standing 10 feet apart in the wide open shooting blasters at each other. I watch combat videos of other MMO's like Guild Wars 2 and TERA, which are both in alpha stages as well, but the action presented seems much more lively than what I've seen from SWTOR so far. It's BioWare's job to put out better game footage to get people interested and not up to the viewers to speculate whether or not it's going to be better later on. I can only base my opinion on what I see at this point, and so far it's not that exciting.
I completely agree. However, its one thing to have an opinion about the combat animations (which is fair enough, the game still has 10 months or so to go yet). But its another thing to critisise people for making a video about their own personal opinion or to critisise how SWTOR is in some respects echo'ing some of the combat mechanics used in other games AND THEN adding their own complexities on top.
To point fingers at one game because it follows the rest in terms of a mechanic is just plain silly.
Well, I think Teala does make a valid point about the video taking shots at other MMO's where the combat is rather static, and then showing combat from SWTOR showing the same type of combat that they were criticising. I think the weapon collision features are cool and show some definite promise, but the combat was still basically stationary, face-to-face sword hacking. If you think the video's opinion is flawed, they shouldn't be immune to criticism.
This is what makes me roll my eyes at Bioware. They go out of their way to rag on traditional mmorpg combat systems, and talk about how their combat is more fluid and dynamic (paraphrasing). However, in the videos that they show us of SWTOR it has the same static combat. Yes the lighting effects are very nice, for the Jedi/Sith, but it's still the same hack n slash we see in all mmorpgs.
I don't mind if that's what they use, it has worked for over a decade now, but don't blatantly rip on another game that uses a mechanic that is present within your own game. Bioware is being disingenuous about their combat system.
I understand they want to hype their game, that's fine and it's to be expected. However, don't be a bunch of arrogant asses about it, especially when you're using mechanics present in nearly all other mmorpgs.
My experience is that yes they have mentioned that the game they are making will be different from the current crop of games in certain ways one big aspect being the story driven content (which in mmo terms translates to maybe a few notches above where LOTRO went with story driven content) but I'm not sure I see where they have went out of their way to rip on any particular mmo. We all know that they are shooting for the stars here so to speak so of course they are going to court the players of the successes out there as much as a company like Aventurine will shun that same audience (mostly). But in my opinion making a statement like wow is the mcdonalds of mmo's we are going to be the steakhouse (not sure that's exactly what Gaute said but he was dumb enough to say it close enough for people to run wild with it). I don't hang on every word by any dev so maybe there are comments out there made by Bioware reps that are critical of todays games but in the end aren't we all?
It seems to me the overall sentiment amongst mmo players is that the industry is not in a high point right now and I can certainly see a company speaking in terms of the playerbases overall displeasure with the industry as a whole. But until they actually call someone out I think it's a bit unfair to say they are going out of there way to dump on anyone in the industry, hell the last complaint about them was how many times they said there game was like WOW at E3.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I was actually referencing the numerous comments actually made by Bioware, some of those comments were in the video posted. However, the Combat Preview video is mostly what I was referring to. The video posted in this thread had an obvious agenda, I can't speak for the STO or EQ2 clips, but the WoW clips were of a pet and a npc mob fighting. If the WoW clips had shown something like a warrior, death knight, paladin or a rogue fighting an npc mob, that would have been a more genuine comparison.
The Combat video with the devs speaking in between the video clips and during actually made me laugh though. Much of what they were bashing was being shown in their combat clips. Don't get me wrong, I don't really care, I just found it extremely ironic that they would go out of their way to actually disparage other games while repeating the same mechanics.
I will admit, again, that the lighting effects are spectacular when it comes to Light Saber combat.
I just grow weary of developers bashing each other to try to make themselves look good. If you want to hype your game, do it, but do so based upon the merits of your game. I have flashbacks of the hype master Paul Barnett...leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I gotta admit, I did find the comparisons in that particular video a little "one sided". They made me smile because I knew the video creator was obviously biased a little. But he's entitled to be. However, there's no denying that the syncronised contact combat IS more prominent in SWTOR than in other games.
As for Bioware, in my opinion, they have actually been more "reserved" than other developers when it comes to poking fun at other games. CCP's promo videos are rife with it.
If anything, to me Bioware have been a little humble because of their ease with comparing some of their game mechanics to WoW. To me that says that they are being relatively truthful about where their game stands in terms of that dreaded term "innovation" (god I hate that word). Of course, you will ALWAYS get some marketing dudes embellishing the truth a bit, but that's what they do. Anyone who falls for that crap deserves all they get.
Same here, better to wait and play it then if its not great atleast I get a single player experience Bioware is good at that. As opposed to simply attacking it without well draw out arguements which, lets be honest, there does not exsist enough info to formulate as yet.
I wonder how many people who attack games, like TOR, actually go out and buy in come launch day.
Probably the majority, if nothing else but to come on here a month later to scream how they hate it (because then paying for it gives them justification to whine). Kinda sad really.
Thus we have STO all over again. IF one truely doesnt like what they see; just dont buy the game. Buying it to whine afterwards with "braging rights" is almost moronic.
After rewatching this video paying only attention to the dev comments, I do not see them so much attacking other MMOs so much as I see them playing up their own game. Most MMOs do have 1 mob against 1 entire group. MMOs do tend to have the 'swinging at air" effect for combat, that always annoyed me even in EQ1. My main complaint is they restate the same few constrasts, they belive they have, to other MMOs.
After rewatching this video paying only attention to the dev comments, I do not see them so much attacking other MMOs so much as I see them playing up their own game. Most MMOs do have 1 mob against 1 entire group. MMOs do tend to have the 'swinging at air" effect for combat, that always annoyed me even in EQ1. My main complaint is they restate the same few constrasts, they belive they have, to other MMOs.
Exactly, the "official" parts of that video where pretty normal: devs talking about their game and pointing out the bits that set them apart from the rest, blah, blah.
The "unofficial" bits were a little naughty in parts, but they did serve a purpose nonetheless. And that's to show the difference between SWTOR and other games.
Ummm the voices in the vid were from BioWares own developers talking about the combat. Seriously, take off you rose colored glasses and now take out your ear plugs as well.
Watch the video again Teala rather than throwing insults around. Yes the developers were in the video, as was shots of WoW. But does that mean Blizzard or Bioware actually made the video? No.
Check the final text that appears on the end of the video ( 7: 10) . Didn't it say "I think so"?
*I* ....if it was Bioware making the video they would have said "we" wouldn't they?
Quote from the original maker of that video on Youtube:
"The example of animations I used was indicative to what a player at level 1 to 8 would see in their respective games as that is the level of game play being compared to the TOR clips ..... "
So what does all this tell you?
That he doesn't work for Bioware and the video isn't official. It's been spliced together by someone using footage from the official videos, and from other MMO games (not to mention Star Trek music which any company would have to normally pay for). Therefore the text you see on the video is something HE added, hence his opinion at the end.
If Bioware HAD made this video they would get their asses sued by Paramount (because of using the ST original series music), Cryptic, Blizzard, SOE and others for liable.
The video was made by a fan, obviously, but they included an interview with a BioWare rep. in the very beginning where he is criticizing many current MMO's combat system. He says "A lot of games are still doing the 'we're going to have two people stand infront of each other and play our seperate animations'." Then the fan proceeds to splice in clips of other MMO's like WoW and AoC to show how "boring" their combat is, and then it switches back to the BioWare guy talking about how SWTOR combat is unique. The problem is that the videos shown for SWTOR were just that: "two people standing infront of each other playing their seperate animations." It showed some guy standing there shooting a blaster out in the wide open, getting hit with enemy blaster shots. There was no movement, no strafing, no interrupts, no trying to find cover or using any kind of positioning or tactics to gain advantage. Nearly every combat video is just two people standing still, shooting blasters or clashing swords until one of them dies.
Now maybe this is just basic, low level combat, but if that's the case why would BioWare be so foolish to show combat like this? Shouldn't they be showing the highest levels of combat, making it look as dynamic and exciting as possible? People don't want to see low level characters doing auto-attack. Can you imagine Blizzard showing game footage of low level WoW characters in starter areas and saying "Isn't this exciting?" No, they always show characters decked out with high level weapons and armor doing flashy attacks.
I don't know if BioWare is just confident that they have a "can't miss winner" or what, but I think their marketing has sucked up to this point. The critics of the game have so much ammunition basically because BioWare keeps putting out less than stellar material. I honestly think they would be better off not showing any videos than what they've been putting out so far. Give interviews, discuss features, but wait until you have a more polished product before you start showing it to everyone.
I suspect that the combat will divide many people. It is probably more slow paced than many of the MMO's coming out in 2011 and I don't think it will do the game any favours. But on the other hand we have only seen a few parts of it and can't be sure that this is all there is.
Sadly though if this is the best of the combat is what we have seen and you would expect they would want to show the best of what they have so far. Then saying we have only see parts of the combat isn't much of a counter. It suggests an agreement of why the combat sucks and trying to make an excuse for it. Realistically though its unlikely that the combat will be up to the levels of Final Fantasy, TSW, Tera or Rift but then ToR is looking to bring Story to the MMO not action packed combat.
"But cause of this I don't think we will see much new in the form of combat, and for fans of WoW or EQ this maybe exactly what they are looking for. It would be crazy though to suggest the game is going to be something that it isn't. It will be a traditional MMO with more a more traditional style MMO combat system with a lot of polish. Personally I worry that come 2011 with the releases of games like FFXIV, DC online and Tera it may start looking a little slow or lacking in skill where auto face and stationary combat is no longer considered all that. But perhaps its no looking for those gamers but rather than those that like a slower pace with an enjoyable story. Such as those gamers that prefer a good book over watching a football game."
I'm sorry Korithian, but I just had to pull you up on mentioning in two seperate posts in this thread that Final Fantasy XIV has good, exciting, fast combat. NOTHING could be further from the truth. I have never seen such boring, dull, slow combat in any MMO ever!
My bad, yes I have... In Final Fantasy XI.
Now granted I am a complete Final Fantasy hater. It all stems from getting FF whatever for the PS1 many, many years ago. I found it to be utter crap. I think I lasted about 30 mins maximum before the game was quickly passed down to my nephew.
My obvious Final Fantasy prejudice aside, FF MMO combat is slow, dull and in my opinion awful.
TOR combat looks like the holy grail of MMORPG combat in comparison.
MMORPG History: Playing - EVE Online. Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion. Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9). Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
Glad to see I can leave for a few weeks, come back and everyone is exactly how I left them, incomprehensible and rabid.
Combat and graphics, Space Combat and Crafting, all of which we still have little information about. Isn't it exhausting to continue arguing over the same information time and again, saying the same things, getting the same answers, and coming to the same conclusions? Its exhausting reading it, I could only imagine how tough it is to write it.
Lets all pack our doom and gloom up in little tiny boxes and mail them to ourselves in 6 months after Beta is in full swing and more - solid - information has been released. Sure you may not change your mind about the combat, graphics, and whatever else abnormally irks you with this title, but then again, you weren't looking to change your mind anyway.
I guess thats one good constant, no matter how much the game grows and changes, no matter what fun stuff they add, will add, or intend to create, those that hate the game stay the same.
I don't understand it. They show people standing there during the demos using their abilities. How is that different then any other MMO? They showed videos of pvp, and people were moving around non stop, while using abilities.
Are you saying, you wish to spam attacks with no global cooldown or anything? Do you want FPS like combat in this game?
It seems to me, after seeing the short pvp videos, that they mostly have people staying still just to show off what's going on. Do I expect to be able to move around while casting? No. But I expect once I start attacking, or shooting, I can move freely. And that was shown. How is that different then any other MMO themepark game? Outside of no auto attack that casters do not get most of the time.
Why have they shown so much pve content but very little of the pvp content ?
Is it not ready. Is it lacking in some way that they are not ready to show it off. They hardly talk about this aspect of the game.
They need to show more of the pvp system to calm the masses of there fears IMO.
I get the impression that isn't one of their main focus points with this game. I'm not trying to bash the game or downplay it just from all I have seen I think the reason you're not seeing it discussed much is because when it is all said and done PvP will be in the game but certanly not to the level that those that enjoy that aspect will be real happy with.
I get the feeling it is going to be more arena based and done in scenario type situations. So in essence while it won't be an absolute afterthought like it is in some like LotR it won't be a major focus or selling point. More something you could enjoy in small increments but not a solid reason you would want to buy the game for.
Granted this game is still a long ways out so who knows. They could just be waiting until things are closer to launch and as with other things they are simply waiting until they are certain what they will incorporate before they go into detail about it.
No absolutes here but intentional or not that is the impression I have.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Why have they shown so much pve content but very little of the pvp content ?
Is it not ready. Is it lacking in some way that they are not ready to show it off. They hardly talk about this aspect of the game.
They need to show more of the pvp system to calm the masses of there fears IMO.
I get the impression that isn't one of their main focus points with this game. I'm not trying to bash the game or downplay it just from all I have seen I think the reason you're not seeing it discussed much is because when it is all said and done PvP will be in the game but certanly not to the level that those that enjoy that aspect will be real happy with.
I get the feeling it is going to be more arena based and done in scenario type situations. So in essence while it won't be an absolute afterthought like it is in some like LotR it won't be a major focus or selling point. More something you could enjoy in small increments but not a solid reason you would want to buy the game for.
Granted this game is still a long ways out so who knows. They could just be waiting until things are closer to launch and as with other things they are simply waiting until they are certain what they will incorporate before they go into detail about it.
No absolutes here but intentional or not that is the impression I have.
True, I'm guessing most of there time has been spent doing content that revolves around pve. Once they get that hammered out they will probably focus more on the pvp side of things.
Just have to wait I guess.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Haha, Teala's posts on swtor always make me chuckle. She sounds like such a wounded child... or maybe a scorned lover?
Anywho, back on topic. To me there are aspects of swtor's combat that I like and don't like such as the smuggler which looks kinda boring just sitting behind cover taking pot shots at people, atleast the sith agent has abitlities like being able to call in an air strike to livin things up a bit. Hopefully the smuggler will get some more exciting abilities later on.
So far I'm really liking what their doing with the lightsaber combat atleast as far as the aesthetics go with the fluid way the lightsaber can transition from blocking multiple sword strikes and blaster fire. I would still like to see more visceral lightsaber attacks like dismemberment and burn marks when you score a hit because currently they are looking too much like glow bats for my taste.
Comments
Ummm the voices in the vid were from BioWares own developers talking about the combat. Seriously, take off you rose colored glasses and now take out your ear plugs as well.
Same here, better to wait and play it then if its not great atleast I get a single player experience Bioware is good at that. As opposed to simply attacking it without well draw out arguements which, lets be honest, there does not exsist enough info to formulate as yet.
I wonder how many people who attack games, like TOR, actually go out and buy in come launch day.
They may well do. But its often out of sync, and THAT is the difference.
No one is insinuating that Bioware are doing anything drastically ground breaking. Not even Bioware are, hence why they referred to comparisons with WoW. And in my opinion they'd be stupid to do so. But what they ARE doing is emulating what Blizzard did: take tried and tested mechanics, refine them and evolve them.
And from what I'm seeing so far, that's precisely what they've done. SWTOR ain't going to be noted for breaking lots of new ground (aside from the volume of story arcs and voice overs in the game), but it MAY be recognised in the future as being POSSIBLY the one that got closest so far to the WoW level of overall quality. Something that many others can't seem to get right.
But who knows, they may even managed to surpass the WoW level of quality by making a game with a good foundation on which they can build upon and make more complex. THAT is when they break new ground.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
I think it makes as much chance as you taking off your black tinted glasses. Seriously, this way the debate will only go on in ever more extreme viewpoints, try to be as fair and objective as you want others to be.
For 1 thing, the combat: yes, it has elements that are the same as the current school of MMO's, it also has changes and adjustments in which it is different from the current school of MMO's. As long as you can't acknowledge a simple truism as that, which can be seen and concluded pretty easily objectively, then the discussion will continue with the same extreme arguments that we all dislike, and you will continue to be attacked for your heavily onesidedness and biasedness in your posts. Why? Because you don't show your opinion to be more than only that.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Probably the majority, if nothing else but to come on here a month later to scream how they hate it (because then paying for it gives them justification to whine). Kinda sad really.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Watch the video again Teala rather than throwing insults around. Yes the developers were in the video, as was shots of WoW. But does that mean Blizzard or Bioware actually made the video? No.
Check the final text that appears on the end of the video ( 7: 10) . Didn't it say "I think so"?
*I* ....if it was Bioware making the video they would have said "we" wouldn't they?
Quote from the original maker of that video on Youtube:
"The example of animations I used was indicative to what a player at level 1 to 8 would see in their respective games as that is the level of game play being compared to the TOR clips ..... "
So what does all this tell you?
That he doesn't work for Bioware and the video isn't official. It's been spliced together by someone using footage from the official videos, and from other MMO games (not to mention Star Trek music which any company would have to normally pay for). Therefore the text you see on the video is something HE added, hence his opinion at the end.
If Bioware HAD made this video they would get their asses sued by Paramount (because of using the ST original series music), Cryptic, Blizzard, SOE and others for liable.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
From what we have seen of people that have played smugglers using the cover ability it doesn't seem to stop damage but work more like a buff. So while originally I thought this would add a very nice feature to the game of ducking behind cover to avoid getting shot that doesn't appear to be how it works. It seems to be more like a stealth skill that allows you to use certain special abilities while this action is activiated. It may even allow for some damage reduction (I haven't seen anything confirmed on this but it has to make some sence) specially with the portable shield walls that must work like the troopers shield.
While their maybe some flinching when shot in the face or so we haven't yet seen anything like the SWG's (pre cu) where the character would dodge or parry a blow if their skill was sufficient above and beyond lightsaber blocking. We also don't appear to have seen any manual ability to block as is becoming more common in MMO's. This though could be cause of the ranged element makes it hard to block with a blaster pistol.
But cause of this I don't think we will see much new in the form of combat, and for fans of WoW or EQ this maybe exactly what they are looking for. It would be crazy though to suggest the game is going to be something that it isn't. It will be a traditional MMO with more a more traditional style MMO combat system with a lot of polish. Personally I worry that come 2011 with the releases of games like FFXIV, DC online and Tera it may start looking a little slow or lacking in skill where auto face and stationary combat is no longer considered all that. But perhaps its no looking for those gamers but rather than those that like a slower pace with an enjoyable story. Such as those gamers that prefer a good book over watching a football game.
Thus we have STO all over again. IF one truely doesnt like what they see; just dont buy the game. Buying it to whine afterwards with "braging rights" is almost moronic.
Couldn't have said it any better myself
I was actually referencing the numerous comments actually made by Bioware, some of those comments were in the video posted. However, the Combat Preview video is mostly what I was referring to. The video posted in this thread had an obvious agenda, I can't speak for the STO or EQ2 clips, but the WoW clips were of a pet and a npc mob fighting. If the WoW clips had shown something like a warrior, death knight, paladin or a rogue fighting an npc mob, that would have been a more genuine comparison.
The Combat video with the devs speaking in between the video clips and during actually made me laugh though. Much of what they were bashing was being shown in their combat clips. Don't get me wrong, I don't really care, I just found it extremely ironic that they would go out of their way to actually disparage other games while repeating the same mechanics.
I will admit, again, that the lighting effects are spectacular when it comes to Light Saber combat.
I just grow weary of developers bashing each other to try to make themselves look good. If you want to hype your game, do it, but do so based upon the merits of your game. I have flashbacks of the hype master Paul Barnett...leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
My experience is that yes they have mentioned that the game they are making will be different from the current crop of games in certain ways one big aspect being the story driven content (which in mmo terms translates to maybe a few notches above where LOTRO went with story driven content) but I'm not sure I see where they have went out of their way to rip on any particular mmo. We all know that they are shooting for the stars here so to speak so of course they are going to court the players of the successes out there as much as a company like Aventurine will shun that same audience (mostly). But in my opinion making a statement like wow is the mcdonalds of mmo's we are going to be the steakhouse (not sure that's exactly what Gaute said but he was dumb enough to say it close enough for people to run wild with it). I don't hang on every word by any dev so maybe there are comments out there made by Bioware reps that are critical of todays games but in the end aren't we all?
It seems to me the overall sentiment amongst mmo players is that the industry is not in a high point right now and I can certainly see a company speaking in terms of the playerbases overall displeasure with the industry as a whole. But until they actually call someone out I think it's a bit unfair to say they are going out of there way to dump on anyone in the industry, hell the last complaint about them was how many times they said there game was like WOW at E3.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I gotta admit, I did find the comparisons in that particular video a little "one sided". They made me smile because I knew the video creator was obviously biased a little. But he's entitled to be. However, there's no denying that the syncronised contact combat IS more prominent in SWTOR than in other games.
As for Bioware, in my opinion, they have actually been more "reserved" than other developers when it comes to poking fun at other games. CCP's promo videos are rife with it.
If anything, to me Bioware have been a little humble because of their ease with comparing some of their game mechanics to WoW. To me that says that they are being relatively truthful about where their game stands in terms of that dreaded term "innovation" (god I hate that word). Of course, you will ALWAYS get some marketing dudes embellishing the truth a bit, but that's what they do. Anyone who falls for that crap deserves all they get.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Agreed.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
After rewatching this video paying only attention to the dev comments, I do not see them so much attacking other MMOs so much as I see them playing up their own game. Most MMOs do have 1 mob against 1 entire group. MMOs do tend to have the 'swinging at air" effect for combat, that always annoyed me even in EQ1. My main complaint is they restate the same few constrasts, they belive they have, to other MMOs.
Exactly, the "official" parts of that video where pretty normal: devs talking about their game and pointing out the bits that set them apart from the rest, blah, blah.
The "unofficial" bits were a little naughty in parts, but they did serve a purpose nonetheless. And that's to show the difference between SWTOR and other games.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
The video was made by a fan, obviously, but they included an interview with a BioWare rep. in the very beginning where he is criticizing many current MMO's combat system. He says "A lot of games are still doing the 'we're going to have two people stand infront of each other and play our seperate animations'." Then the fan proceeds to splice in clips of other MMO's like WoW and AoC to show how "boring" their combat is, and then it switches back to the BioWare guy talking about how SWTOR combat is unique. The problem is that the videos shown for SWTOR were just that: "two people standing infront of each other playing their seperate animations." It showed some guy standing there shooting a blaster out in the wide open, getting hit with enemy blaster shots. There was no movement, no strafing, no interrupts, no trying to find cover or using any kind of positioning or tactics to gain advantage. Nearly every combat video is just two people standing still, shooting blasters or clashing swords until one of them dies.
Now maybe this is just basic, low level combat, but if that's the case why would BioWare be so foolish to show combat like this? Shouldn't they be showing the highest levels of combat, making it look as dynamic and exciting as possible? People don't want to see low level characters doing auto-attack. Can you imagine Blizzard showing game footage of low level WoW characters in starter areas and saying "Isn't this exciting?" No, they always show characters decked out with high level weapons and armor doing flashy attacks.
I don't know if BioWare is just confident that they have a "can't miss winner" or what, but I think their marketing has sucked up to this point. The critics of the game have so much ammunition basically because BioWare keeps putting out less than stellar material. I honestly think they would be better off not showing any videos than what they've been putting out so far. Give interviews, discuss features, but wait until you have a more polished product before you start showing it to everyone.
"But cause of this I don't think we will see much new in the form of combat, and for fans of WoW or EQ this maybe exactly what they are looking for. It would be crazy though to suggest the game is going to be something that it isn't. It will be a traditional MMO with more a more traditional style MMO combat system with a lot of polish. Personally I worry that come 2011 with the releases of games like FFXIV, DC online and Tera it may start looking a little slow or lacking in skill where auto face and stationary combat is no longer considered all that. But perhaps its no looking for those gamers but rather than those that like a slower pace with an enjoyable story. Such as those gamers that prefer a good book over watching a football game."
I'm sorry Korithian, but I just had to pull you up on mentioning in two seperate posts in this thread that Final Fantasy XIV has good, exciting, fast combat. NOTHING could be further from the truth. I have never seen such boring, dull, slow combat in any MMO ever!
My bad, yes I have... In Final Fantasy XI.
Now granted I am a complete Final Fantasy hater. It all stems from getting FF whatever for the PS1 many, many years ago. I found it to be utter crap. I think I lasted about 30 mins maximum before the game was quickly passed down to my nephew.
My obvious Final Fantasy prejudice aside, FF MMO combat is slow, dull and in my opinion awful.
TOR combat looks like the holy grail of MMORPG combat in comparison.
MMORPG History:
Playing - EVE Online.
Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion.
Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9).
Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
Glad to see I can leave for a few weeks, come back and everyone is exactly how I left them, incomprehensible and rabid.
Combat and graphics, Space Combat and Crafting, all of which we still have little information about. Isn't it exhausting to continue arguing over the same information time and again, saying the same things, getting the same answers, and coming to the same conclusions? Its exhausting reading it, I could only imagine how tough it is to write it.
Lets all pack our doom and gloom up in little tiny boxes and mail them to ourselves in 6 months after Beta is in full swing and more - solid - information has been released. Sure you may not change your mind about the combat, graphics, and whatever else abnormally irks you with this title, but then again, you weren't looking to change your mind anyway.
I guess thats one good constant, no matter how much the game grows and changes, no matter what fun stuff they add, will add, or intend to create, those that hate the game stay the same.
I don't understand it. They show people standing there during the demos using their abilities. How is that different then any other MMO? They showed videos of pvp, and people were moving around non stop, while using abilities.
Are you saying, you wish to spam attacks with no global cooldown or anything? Do you want FPS like combat in this game?
It seems to me, after seeing the short pvp videos, that they mostly have people staying still just to show off what's going on. Do I expect to be able to move around while casting? No. But I expect once I start attacking, or shooting, I can move freely. And that was shown. How is that different then any other MMO themepark game? Outside of no auto attack that casters do not get most of the time.
I get the impression that isn't one of their main focus points with this game. I'm not trying to bash the game or downplay it just from all I have seen I think the reason you're not seeing it discussed much is because when it is all said and done PvP will be in the game but certanly not to the level that those that enjoy that aspect will be real happy with.
I get the feeling it is going to be more arena based and done in scenario type situations. So in essence while it won't be an absolute afterthought like it is in some like LotR it won't be a major focus or selling point. More something you could enjoy in small increments but not a solid reason you would want to buy the game for.
Granted this game is still a long ways out so who knows. They could just be waiting until things are closer to launch and as with other things they are simply waiting until they are certain what they will incorporate before they go into detail about it.
No absolutes here but intentional or not that is the impression I have.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Its does seem fairly slow, but I'm gonna wait to try it before I pass judgement.
True, I'm guessing most of there time has been spent doing content that revolves around pve. Once they get that hammered out they will probably focus more on the pvp side of things.
Just have to wait I guess.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Haha, Teala's posts on swtor always make me chuckle. She sounds like such a wounded child... or maybe a scorned lover?
Anywho, back on topic. To me there are aspects of swtor's combat that I like and don't like such as the smuggler which looks kinda boring just sitting behind cover taking pot shots at people, atleast the sith agent has abitlities like being able to call in an air strike to livin things up a bit. Hopefully the smuggler will get some more exciting abilities later on.
So far I'm really liking what their doing with the lightsaber combat atleast as far as the aesthetics go with the fluid way the lightsaber can transition from blocking multiple sword strikes and blaster fire. I would still like to see more visceral lightsaber attacks like dismemberment and burn marks when you score a hit because currently they are looking too much like glow bats for my taste.
I don't get it. The combat looks great to me. Hope you find a game that has combat animations you like OP.
Yeah, combat looks awesome to me.
(Akiraosc)