Warhammer 40k players are most definately above your average WoW player intelligence.
Are you sure?
Because half of them in this thread can't even see the writing on the wall from what that interview showed is the "target audience" for this upcoming game.
The guy isn't targeting 1 million WAR40k fans AND 1 million WoW fans. He clearly is saying they want the WoW fannage.
Apparently, what the "average WAR40K" fan isn't seeing is that target audience isn't them. They are the side market and too "demanding" as a company would see it.
This game is going to be aimed at a WIDESPREAD audience with a shotgun blast, not a small niche audience with a sniper rifle. The guy practically spelled it out for them.
If the target audience of warhammer 40k should not be warhammer 40k players, why use ( and most likely tarnish) the warhammer IP? If the audience is people who don't even know/play warhammer, then why use the IP. It makes no sense.
If the target audience of warhammer 40k should not be warhammer 40k players, why use ( and most likely tarnish) the warhammer IP? If the audience is people who don't even know/play warhammer, then why use the IP. It makes no sense.
I believe it should be the target audience as fans usually will buy things they have followed for years on blind faith. Warhammer Online showed that. But it won't.
Most mmos with a "niche" audience don't do very well simply because that crowd is too demanding on a company for as small as they usually are. They don't want fluff, they don't want easy exp, everyone to be as equal to THEIR toon, etc. Even successful mmos like FFXI that was true to it's community changed over time due to wanting to bring more business in. And that's a game with almost a 10 year history.
But in today's competitive market, companies look at the bottom line and industry leaders. Like it or not, that is WoW. Their demographic subbase is in the back of most company's minds and in the front in some of the larger ones.
It's the same reason companies close games that fans say "Why are they closing this game? Makes no sense... there are plenty of us supporting it." Fans only see what they want to see; they only care about getting a ego stroke or something.
A company will look at dollars and cents and nothing else.
Where in the interview does he say dark millennium is going to be a wow clone?
""I've spent lots of time in WoW. As a WoW fanatic, I'm going to go right to 40K as soon as it comes out. It's very friendly to the WoW player," Bilson says."
You can read between the lines, can't you?
Can you read between the lines are you mystical? Really im not joking, besides what is this wow clone you speak of? THink about it if there really was a wow clone out there it should ahve done well , seeing as wow is attractive and wildly successful game. (even if it is to noobies). But i have not seen this mystical wow clone yet. Maybe what you speak of is a mmorpg with progressive content in a semi liner fashion, then what you speak of is also see in war40k dow games, and every console rpg i know, and lets see most rpg games today. Maybe we shouldn't call it wow clone but an mmorpg with a story and plot. I understand some people may have lore, plot, and story, but to be a triple A mmorpg its pretty much required, becuase well like i said its more, And the likes of you are attempting to put forth any mmo with a plot and story line the player actual experience is well a WOW clone. SO BE IT. I LIKE SANDBOX ALSO BUT LETS FACE THE FACTS SANDBOX IS DULL for more than most players.
PVP is the only way to make sandbox games work. I personally like sandbox, i rarely read lore or quest ... im an old school mmorpg/gamer , but i also understand that others really like lore and story (i love books, they don't read books so for them its kinda liek their books) But lets be honest how many console rpgs have you played w/o story line, adding a story line to an rpg doesn't seem that crazy or wowish to me .... more so logical.
I can choose just not to read quests, so no harm to me. But no its a wow clone right.. I mean get over yourself, thq is trying to make the best mmorpg they can think of .... even if they do imitate wow ... by doing so they are immitating most mmorpgs, becuase wow is not really that different, but also not the same as other mmorpgs. It is what it is and WAr 40k will be what it will be; just like most mmorpgs, (other than some korean ones becuase they do have a copy paste issue with some of there older mmorpgs, but even this is changing.)
All this beign said war40k could be good or could be bad, we will see. But this entire wow clone sh*t need to stop, because its so illogical and rarely has basis. Other than any mmorpg that says ... i want a story line and i want a lot of players, i hope i get them, MAY JUST IN FACT BE A WOW CLONE LURKING UNDER ITS RELEASE DATE AND USE OF MORE THAN 12 COLORS. OHH THE HORROR. SOMEONE MAKE IT STOP.
Oh ps you think WAr40k DOW was played by ... rts or gaming fans at all ? Your right if so then why use war40k ip.... HOW ABOUT IS A RICH ENVIORMENT FILLED WITH STORY AND BACK STORY THAT MAKE A WONDEFUL TRANSITION INTO A THEMEPARK , WOW CLONE MMO?
Here is a better question, in a world so rich in plot and story, why not tell the story.... and you anit gonna do that in an sandbox. Is it possible? yeah. hard? 4 sure. has anyone done it yet... nope. I mean WAR40k DOW really didn't utilize war40k ip well, but i bet war40k DM will.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
If the target audience of warhammer 40k should not be warhammer 40k players, why use ( and most likely tarnish) the warhammer IP? If the audience is people who don't even know/play warhammer, then why use the IP. It makes no sense.
I believe it should be the target audience as fans usually will buy things they have followed for years on blind faith. Warhammer Online showed that. But it won't.
Most mmos with a "niche" audience don't do very well simply because that crowd is too demanding on a company for as small as they usually are. They don't want fluff, they don't want easy exp, everyone to be as equal to THEIR toon, etc. Even successful mmos like FFXI that was true to it's community changed over time due to wanting to bring more business in. And that's a game with almost a 10 year history.
But in today's competitive market, companies look at the bottom line and industry leaders. Like it or not, that is WoW. Their demographic subbase is in the back of most company's minds and in the front in some of the larger ones.
It's the same reason companies close games that fans say "Why are they closing this game? Makes no sense... there are plenty of us supporting it." Fans only see what they want to see; they only care about getting a ego stroke or something.
A company will look at dollars and cents and nothing else.
And we should be thankful for this becuase ... it will get us better games. Companies want to make the best game they can, becuase .... it will make them money.
## I am addressing the haters not this poster ##
Too many people act liek their old games were super amazing eleet hardcore. I do it with daoc, i still play daoc ever so often. But most people don't. How many people honestly are still playing Eq1. See the real issue is you like aspect of eq1/daoc/acx that are no longer in these new games... but these new games have things that you like and don't have thing you didn't liek in those old games.
That is why instead of QQing like alot of people do about WoW you should actuall state what you want, what you liked thats not in wow.
For me open world interactive pvp thats not fair. - WAr40k may have this
For me open world and open dungeon pve camp exping - WAr40k could have this (i doubt it and it makes me sad, but i really would like to see this) Some day when all you wow bashing people stop it and start convaying what you want to see in mmorpgs we may get a AAA mmorpg that has both snadbox and linear progression. Sounds like ff14 at least is talkign liek it did some of this, it might not have at all it sounds good tho.
At the end of the day you'll get nothing done with all that hate and it doesn't make your arguements correct.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
If the target audience of warhammer 40k should not be warhammer 40k players, why use ( and most likely tarnish) the warhammer IP? If the audience is people who don't even know/play warhammer, then why use the IP. It makes no sense.
I believe it should be the target audience as fans usually will buy things they have followed for years on blind faith. Warhammer Online showed that. But it won't.
Most mmos with a "niche" audience don't do very well simply because that crowd is too demanding on a company for as small as they usually are. They don't want fluff, they don't want easy exp, everyone to be as equal to THEIR toon, etc. Even successful mmos like FFXI that was true to it's community changed over time due to wanting to bring more business in. And that's a game with almost a 10 year history.
But in today's competitive market, companies look at the bottom line and industry leaders. Like it or not, that is WoW. Their demographic subbase is in the back of most company's minds and in the front in some of the larger ones.
It's the same reason companies close games that fans say "Why are they closing this game? Makes no sense... there are plenty of us supporting it." Fans only see what they want to see; they only care about getting a ego stroke or something.
A company will look at dollars and cents and nothing else.
And we should be thankful for this becuase ... it will get us better games. Companies want to make the best game they can, becuase .... it will make them money.
## I am addressing the haters not this poster ##
Too many people act liek their old games were super amazing eleet hardcore. I do it with daoc, i still play daoc ever so often. But most people don't. How many people honestly are still playing Eq1. See the real issue is you like aspect of eq1/daoc/acx that are no longer in these new games... but these new games have things that you like and don't have thing you didn't liek in those old games.
That is why instead of QQing like alot of people do about WoW you should actuall state what you want, what you liked thats not in wow.
For me open world interactive pvp thats not fair. - WAr40k may have this
For me open world and open dungeon pve camp exping - WAr40k could have this (i doubt it and it makes me sad, but i really would like to see this) Some day when all you wow bashing people stop it and start convaying what you want to see in mmorpgs we may get a AAA mmorpg that has both snadbox and linear progression. Sounds like ff14 at least is talkign liek it did some of this, it might not have at all it sounds good tho.
At the end of the day you'll get nothing done with all that hate and it doesn't make your arguements correct.
I agree with you. The old games in their exact forms would not cut it, even for us old schoolers. But the part we care about more, the spirit of the game, was lost. I think we desire the spirit of the play that existed back then, that is completely lost now in a sea of stats, gear grinding, hand holding adventures with lack luster story.... We desire some modern feature obviously, but we seek the 20th century holy grail of MMORPG's, the one that focuses more on adventure than ...the other crap.
And no Dragon Age/New star wars do not cut it. Anyone can tell you that it is in actuality a linear game design. And VERY hand fed.
Really curious as to how this means it's a WoW clone. He said that he's targeting their audience, which means a good chunk of the MMO population nowadays. He also could mean some things similar to WoW, but every MMO now and after WoW are considered a derivative from WoW. It's really retarded that people see WoW in any interview consider it a WoW clone.
All in all, nothing is for certain. Lets just wait and see where this goes before we start making judgements.
This.
Also the quote was from a guy at THQ, not Visceral. That's the equivalent of Bobby Kotick being quoted as saying Starcraft 2 is going to be a great experience to anyone who enjoyed Mass Effect.
The Internet really is turning into the news media. Always quoting things out of context and spinning the story.
Originally posted by WarpHunter Where in the interview does he say dark millennium is going to be a wow clone?
""I've spent lots of time in WoW. As a WoW fanatic, I'm going to go right to 40K as soon as it comes out. It's very friendly to the WoW player," Bilson says."
You can read between the lines, can't you?
Can you read between the lines are you mystical? Really im not joking, besides what is this wow clone you speak of? THink about it if there really was a wow clone out there it should ahve done well , seeing as wow is attractive and wildly successful game. (even if it is to noobies). But i have not seen this mystical wow clone yet. Maybe what you speak of is a mmorpg with progressive content in a semi liner fashion, then what you speak of is also see in war40k dow games, and every console rpg i know, and lets see most rpg games today. Maybe we shouldn't call it wow clone but an mmorpg with a story and plot. I understand some people may have lore, plot, and story, but to be a triple A mmorpg its pretty much required, becuase well like i said its more, And the likes of you are attempting to put forth any mmo with a plot and story line the player actual experience is well a WOW clone. SO BE IT. I LIKE SANDBOX ALSO BUT LETS FACE THE FACTS SANDBOX IS DULL for more than most players. PVP is the only way to make sandbox games work. I personally like sandbox, i rarely read lore or quest ... im an old school mmorpg/gamer , but i also understand that others really like lore and story (i love books, they don't read books so for them its kinda liek their books) But lets be honest how many console rpgs have you played w/o story line, adding a story line to an rpg doesn't seem that crazy or wowish to me .... more so logical. I can choose just not to read quests, so no harm to me. But no its a wow clone right.. I mean get over yourself, thq is trying to make the best mmorpg they can think of .... even if they do imitate wow ... by doing so they are immitating most mmorpgs, becuase wow is not really that different, but also not the same as other mmorpgs. It is what it is and WAr 40k will be what it will be; just like most mmorpgs, (other than some korean ones becuase they do have a copy paste issue with some of there older mmorpgs, but even this is changing.) All this beign said war40k could be good or could be bad, we will see. But this entire wow clone sh*t need to stop, because its so illogical and rarely has basis. Other than any mmorpg that says ... i want a story line and i want a lot of players, i hope i get them, MAY JUST IN FACT BE A WOW CLONE LURKING UNDER ITS RELEASE DATE AND USE OF MORE THAN 12 COLORS. OHH THE HORROR. SOMEONE MAKE IT STOP.
Oh ps you think WAr40k DOW was played by ... rts or gaming fans at all ? Your right if so then why use war40k ip.... HOW ABOUT IS A RICH ENVIORMENT FILLED WITH STORY AND BACK STORY THAT MAKE A WONDEFUL TRANSITION INTO A THEMEPARK , WOW CLONE MMO? Here is a better question, in a world so rich in plot and story, why not tell the story.... and you anit gonna do that in an sandbox. Is it possible? yeah. hard? 4 sure. has anyone done it yet... nope. I mean WAR40k DOW really didn't utilize war40k ip well, but i bet war40k DM will.
Originally posted by Jetrpg Originally posted by popinjay
Originally posted by gauge2k3 If the target audience of warhammer 40k should not be warhammer 40k players, why use ( and most likely tarnish) the warhammer IP? If the audience is people who don't even know/play warhammer, then why use the IP. It makes no sense.
I believe it should be the target audience as fans usually will buy things they have followed for years on blind faith. Warhammer Online showed that. But it won't.
Most mmos with a "niche" audience don't do very well simply because that crowd is too demanding on a company for as small as they usually are. They don't want fluff, they don't want easy exp, everyone to be as equal to THEIR toon, etc. Even successful mmos like FFXI that was true to it's community changed over time due to wanting to bring more business in. And that's a game with almost a 10 year history.
But in today's competitive market, companies look at the bottom line and industry leaders. Like it or not, that is WoW. Their demographic subbase is in the back of most company's minds and in the front in some of the larger ones.
It's the same reason companies close games that fans say "Why are they closing this game? Makes no sense... there are plenty of us supporting it." Fans only see what they want to see; they only care about getting a ego stroke or something. A company will look at dollars and cents and nothing else. And we should be thankful for this becuase ... it will get us better games. Companies want to make the best game they can, becuase .... it will make them money. ## I am addressing the haters not this poster ## Too many people act liek their old games were super amazing eleet hardcore. I do it with daoc, i still play daoc ever so often. But most people don't. How many people honestly are still playing Eq1. See the real issue is you like aspect of eq1/daoc/acx that are no longer in these new games... but these new games have things that you like and don't have thing you didn't liek in those old games. That is why instead of QQing like alot of people do about WoW you should actuall state what you want, what you liked thats not in wow. For me open world interactive pvp thats not fair. - WAr40k may have this For me open world and open dungeon pve camp exping - WAr40k could have this (i doubt it and it makes me sad, but i really would like to see this) Some day when all you wow bashing people stop it and start convaying what you want to see in mmorpgs we may get a AAA mmorpg that has both snadbox and linear progression. Sounds like ff14 at least is talkign liek it did some of this, it might not have at all it sounds good tho. At the end of the day you'll get nothing done with all that hate and it doesn't make your arguements correct.
I believe you went off point here from what I was talking about with the other poster.
We were discussing who is the "target audience" for this game and should they be targeted or not.
Apparently, the fans of WAR40K think they are the intended target audience when by that interview, they clearly are not.
The things you said above don't really address any of the above quotes but instead changed the topic about open worlds and old games.
Where in the interview does he say dark millennium is going to be a wow clone?
""I've spent lots of time in WoW. As a WoW fanatic, I'm going to go right to 40K as soon as it comes out. It's very friendly to the WoW player," Bilson says."
You can read between the lines, can't you?
Can you read between the lines are you mystical? Really im not joking, besides what is this wow clone you speak of? THink about it if there really was a wow clone out there it should ahve done well , seeing as wow is attractive and wildly successful game. (even if it is to noobies). But i have not seen this mystical wow clone yet. Maybe what you speak of is a mmorpg with progressive content in a semi liner fashion, then what you speak of is also see in war40k dow games, and every console rpg i know, and lets see most rpg games today. Maybe we shouldn't call it wow clone but an mmorpg with a story and plot. I understand some people may have lore, plot, and story, but to be a triple A mmorpg its pretty much required, becuase well like i said its more, And the likes of you are attempting to put forth any mmo with a plot and story line the player actual experience is well a WOW clone. SO BE IT. I LIKE SANDBOX ALSO BUT LETS FACE THE FACTS SANDBOX IS DULL for more than most players.
PVP is the only way to make sandbox games work. I personally like sandbox, i rarely read lore or quest ... im an old school mmorpg/gamer , but i also understand that others really like lore and story (i love books, they don't read books so for them its kinda liek their books) But lets be honest how many console rpgs have you played w/o story line, adding a story line to an rpg doesn't seem that crazy or wowish to me .... more so logical.
I can choose just not to read quests, so no harm to me. But no its a wow clone right.. I mean get over yourself, thq is trying to make the best mmorpg they can think of .... even if they do imitate wow ... by doing so they are immitating most mmorpgs, becuase wow is not really that different, but also not the same as other mmorpgs. It is what it is and WAr 40k will be what it will be; just like most mmorpgs, (other than some korean ones becuase they do have a copy paste issue with some of there older mmorpgs, but even this is changing.)
All this beign said war40k could be good or could be bad, we will see. But this entire wow clone sh*t need to stop, because its so illogical and rarely has basis. Other than any mmorpg that says ... i want a story line and i want a lot of players, i hope i get them, MAY JUST IN FACT BE A WOW CLONE LURKING UNDER ITS RELEASE DATE AND USE OF MORE THAN 12 COLORS. OHH THE HORROR. SOMEONE MAKE IT STOP.
Oh ps you think WAr40k DOW was played by ... rts or gaming fans at all ? Your right if so then why use war40k ip.... HOW ABOUT IS A RICH ENVIORMENT FILLED WITH STORY AND BACK STORY THAT MAKE A WONDEFUL TRANSITION INTO A THEMEPARK , WOW CLONE MMO?
Here is a better question, in a world so rich in plot and story, why not tell the story.... and you anit gonna do that in an sandbox. Is it possible? yeah. hard? 4 sure. has anyone done it yet... nope. I mean WAR40k DOW really didn't utilize war40k ip well, but i bet war40k DM will.
Too long.
Too emotional.
Please condense.
Why so you can "read between the lines" and tell me what I myself am thinking. Its emotional becuase it has CAPS or I USED CAPS WITH EXTREMEM SCARCASIM TO MKAE IT MORE SARCASTIC AND CRAZY, BUT YOU DIDN'T READ IT BECUASE IT WAS OVER 100 WORDS. Ohh reading is hard.
If your going to act like you can read between the lines, but you can't read 3-4 pharagraphs i seriously doubt your ability to do so.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I still don't understand it. If WAR40k fans are not part of the intended audience, why use the IP. They could have just made an independent IP, it would have been the same thing to the intended audience as of right now.
It just boggles the mind what some developers do...
If the target audience of warhammer 40k should not be warhammer 40k players, why use ( and most likely tarnish) the warhammer IP? If the audience is people who don't even know/play warhammer, then why use the IP. It makes no sense.
I believe it should be the target audience as fans usually will buy things they have followed for years on blind faith. Warhammer Online showed that. But it won't.
Most mmos with a "niche" audience don't do very well simply because that crowd is too demanding on a company for as small as they usually are. They don't want fluff, they don't want easy exp, everyone to be as equal to THEIR toon, etc. Even successful mmos like FFXI that was true to it's community changed over time due to wanting to bring more business in. And that's a game with almost a 10 year history.
But in today's competitive market, companies look at the bottom line and industry leaders. Like it or not, that is WoW. Their demographic subbase is in the back of most company's minds and in the front in some of the larger ones.
It's the same reason companies close games that fans say "Why are they closing this game? Makes no sense... there are plenty of us supporting it." Fans only see what they want to see; they only care about getting a ego stroke or something.
A company will look at dollars and cents and nothing else.
And we should be thankful for this becuase ... it will get us better games. Companies want to make the best game they can, becuase .... it will make them money.
## I am addressing the haters not this poster ##
Too many people act liek their old games were super amazing eleet hardcore. I do it with daoc, i still play daoc ever so often. But most people don't. How many people honestly are still playing Eq1. See the real issue is you like aspect of eq1/daoc/acx that are no longer in these new games... but these new games have things that you like and don't have thing you didn't liek in those old games.
That is why instead of QQing like alot of people do about WoW you should actuall state what you want, what you liked thats not in wow.
For me open world interactive pvp thats not fair. - WAr40k may have this
For me open world and open dungeon pve camp exping - WAr40k could have this (i doubt it and it makes me sad, but i really would like to see this) Some day when all you wow bashing people stop it and start convaying what you want to see in mmorpgs we may get a AAA mmorpg that has both snadbox and linear progression. Sounds like ff14 at least is talkign liek it did some of this, it might not have at all it sounds good tho.
At the end of the day you'll get nothing done with all that hate and it doesn't make your arguements correct.
I believe you went off point here from what I was talking about with the other poster.
We were discussing who is the "target audience" for this game and should they be targeted or not
Apparently, the fans of WAR40K think they are the intended target audience when by that interview, they clearly are not.
The things you said above don't really address any of the above quotes but instead changed the topic about open worlds and old games.
You are not the only poster in this thread, thast why that fancy " ## I am addressing the haters not this poster ##"
Is there. So you know i am well adressing the haters , not you the poster of the quote. In doing so i bring up topic they have brought up, they already made them or attempted to relate them to this thread. And i already stated that its not realted to your post
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Even with extremely little info on gameplay, lore, mechanics, and graphics, people are already calling it a World of Warcraft clone. Amazing the bad press people give some games based on one Alpha-stage video they saw. If it's not your cup of tea, don't complain, just leave those that enjoy their tea alone.
Oh, and you spelled "decides" wrong in your thread name. Congratulations
Even with extremely little info on gameplay, lore, mechanics, and graphics, people are already calling it a World of Warcraft clone. Amazing the bad press people give some games based on one Alpha-stage video they saw. If it's not your cup of tea, don't complain, just leave those that enjoy their tea alone.
Oh, and you spelled "decides" wrong in your thread name. Congratulations
Way to not read the thread....At least read the OP...come on man
So aspiring to take 1 million subs from WOW makes this game a WOW clone? If this is the case one can only see more WOW clones in the future as I think most devs would like to aquire a few million WOW players.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
The other games that tried this strategy (WAR, Aion, AoC and a few others I forget) did not do so well. Players are a little burnt-out on that model and if the game is essentially the same but a little flashier but tertiery in line for this experience, it's not worth committing from an established mmo such as wow, has been proven.
That said, it will be another 3 years when WH40K comes out plus it will be Sci-Fi "wow" eg WoW lifts a lot from the original WH universe ip, so WH40K might just be the thing for these players looking for something fresh, it does have a few differences to the above titles, to make it more possible it could succeed.
The main thing boils down to the gameplay (as usual). If they can make the 3rd-person shooting combat work with fast-paced transport and space etc it might attract a good number of subs. But it's still risky especially choosing that 2 faction system everyone has experienced several times already and other sci-fi space mmo's might beat it to the punch, too. more info on how it shapes up needed, plus THQ have made some great RTS WH40K games to date also. Still open but personally would like them to go down the 5-factions path of resource/territory design and differentiate the game experience and stay true to the ip tag: "war is everywhere".... sounds familiar.
And we should be thankful for this becuase ... it will get us better games. Companies want to make the best game they can, becuase .... it will make them money.
Originally posted by JetrpgYou are not the only poster in this thread, thast why that fancy " ## I am addressing the haters not this poster ##" Is there. So you know i am well adressing the haters , not you the poster of the quote. In doing so i bring up topic they have brought up, they already made them or attempted to relate them to this thread. And i already stated that its not realted to your post
You clearly were addressing a point I made, thats why you "quoted" me. You could have just made a new post and went off point.
But in response to yours, I'm not sure how a company having a slight interest in what should be the target audience (Warhammer faithful fans) but targeting a million people who probably don't even know what a "Warhammer" is (WoW fans) will as you say "... get us better games.
Even with extremely little info on gameplay, lore, mechanics, and graphics, people are already calling it a World of Warcraft clone. Amazing the bad press people give some games based on one Alpha-stage video they saw. If it's not your cup of tea, don't complain, just leave those that enjoy their tea alone.
Oh, and you spelled "decides" wrong in your thread name. Congratulations
Every single game goes through a stage where they're called a Wow clone. I'm sure at one point there were people complaining that Darkfall and MO were too Wow-like. The people that do this are the lowest form of troll and should be laughed at appropriately.
And we should be thankful for this becuase ... it will get us better games. Companies want to make the best game they can, becuase .... it will make them money.
Originally posted by JetrpgYou are not the only poster in this thread, thast why that fancy " ## I am addressing the haters not this poster ##"
Is there. So you know i am well adressing the haters , not you the poster of the quote. In doing so i bring up topic they have brought up, they already made them or attempted to relate them to this thread. And i already stated that its not realted to your post
You clearly were addressing a point I made, thats why you "quoted" me. You could have just made a new post and went off point.
But in response to yours, I'm not sure how a company having a slight interest in what should be the target audience (Warhammer faithful fans) but targeting a million people who probably don't even know what a "Warhammer" is (WoW fans) will as you say "... get us better games.
I clearly did address you then in the first part then stopped addressing you for the secondard part and i made a header to note when i did this. Sry if thast too hard to understand.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Wasn't the other Warhammer mmo already made with WoW in mind lol?
Here I thought they were taking another crack at it, but I guess they are just using the IP because it's there, and going to copying what's already been recreated 1000's of times now (mostly on the free market too), and somehow they think it's going to workout out for them..?
I'm never one for being a doomsayer, but this just seems to wreak of it to me
If the target audience of warhammer 40k should not be warhammer 40k players, why use ( and most likely tarnish) the warhammer IP? If the audience is people who don't even know/play warhammer, then why use the IP. It makes no sense.
I believe it should be the target audience as fans usually will buy things they have followed for years on blind faith. Warhammer Online showed that. But it won't.
Most mmos with a "niche" audience don't do very well simply because that crowd is too demanding on a company for as small as they usually are. They don't want fluff, they don't want easy exp, everyone to be as equal to THEIR toon, etc. Even successful mmos like FFXI that was true to it's community changed over time due to wanting to bring more business in. And that's a game with almost a 10 year history.
But in today's competitive market, companies look at the bottom line and industry leaders. Like it or not, that is WoW. Their demographic subbase is in the back of most company's minds and in the front in some of the larger ones.
It's the same reason companies close games that fans say "Why are they closing this game? Makes no sense... there are plenty of us supporting it." Fans only see what they want to see; they only care about getting a ego stroke or something.
A company will look at dollars and cents and nothing else.
Relying on fans of an established IP to buy on blind faith? No. It hasn't worked for ANY of the established IPs that got an MMORPG.
Star Wars Galaxies? Failed.
Star Trek Online? Failed.
Lord of the Rings Online? Did okay.
Warhammer Online? Failed.
Age of Conan? Failed.
Matrix Online? Failed, plug pulled.
You may get a bunch of fans to buy at the beginning but a bad game will be seen as a bad game. Another thing that has to be taken into consideration when you pursue a fanbase of an established IP is how you respect / adhere to the IP itself. Fans of an established IP have expectations. They've followed books / movies / previous games / etc of that IP, and if you don't do it justice, you've put yourself in a huge hole with them.
A bad game is a bad game. And you're not doing yourself any favor either by alienating the very people that already would be inclined towards a product in an established IP.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
"They've got 14 million players! Gimme a million and I'm good! We're real good at a million, right?" We don't need everybody to migrate. We just need some of them -- and I'm full confident we're going to get them," he said.
How did this go for WAR, SWG NGE, LOTRO, Aion, and any other game I missed that decided to try to copy WoW gaemplay.
Well, at least I know now to stop following the game.
I still confused how people are taking this comment and saying the game will be like WOW? This is clearly stating that he wants their subs period. He not saying our game will be like theirs or anything. You don't have to be like WOW to get their subs. You guys read way too much into this crap. Btw Lotro is a good game just has a small player base...Aion has over a million subs, and SWG was nothing like WOW. There is a difference between copying and the industry standard. Wow's UI system is the industry standard. If you play a game and it's UI is like WOW's then that because it works. There are no WOW clones because WOW was not the first MMO period.
If the target audience of warhammer 40k should not be warhammer 40k players, why use ( and most likely tarnish) the warhammer IP? If the audience is people who don't even know/play warhammer, then why use the IP. It makes no sense.
I believe it should be the target audience as fans usually will buy things they have followed for years on blind faith. Warhammer Online showed that. But it won't.
Most mmos with a "niche" audience don't do very well simply because that crowd is too demanding on a company for as small as they usually are. They don't want fluff, they don't want easy exp, everyone to be as equal to THEIR toon, etc. Even successful mmos like FFXI that was true to it's community changed over time due to wanting to bring more business in. And that's a game with almost a 10 year history.
But in today's competitive market, companies look at the bottom line and industry leaders. Like it or not, that is WoW. Their demographic subbase is in the back of most company's minds and in the front in some of the larger ones.
It's the same reason companies close games that fans say "Why are they closing this game? Makes no sense... there are plenty of us supporting it." Fans only see what they want to see; they only care about getting a ego stroke or something.
A company will look at dollars and cents and nothing else.
Relying on fans of an established IP to buy on blind faith? No. It hasn't worked for ANY of the established IPs that got an MMORPG.
Star Wars Galaxies? Failed.
Star Trek Online? Failed.
Lord of the Rings Online? Did okay.
Warhammer Online? Failed.
Age of Conan? Failed.
Matrix Online? Failed, plug pulled.
You may get a bunch of fans to buy at the beginning but a bad game will be seen as a bad game. Another thing that has to be taken into consideration when you pursue a fanbase of an established IP is how you respect / adhere to the IP itself. Fans of an established IP have expectations. They've followed books / movies / previous games / etc of that IP, and if you don't do it justice, you've put yourself in a huge hole with them.
A bad game is a bad game. And you're not doing yourself any favor either by alienating the very people that already would be inclined towards a product in an established IP.
SWG didn't fail...it just got old and outdated
STO is a niche market game...it will be around for a while and everyone knew the sub numbers would be low
Lotro is a =nother niche game no fail here excellent game just small sub numbers
Warhammer is a fail because they didn't deliver what they promised
AOC is recovering and but pretty much fail
Matrix online never had a chance....
Just because a game doesn't have a million subs doesn't mean it failed. The main problem with fan that have expectations is they expect the game to be like the one they left. It doesn't work like that. You should go into each new game with hopes but don't expect it to be just like WOW. There are alot of people who leave WOW expecting to find an upgraded WOW...this is a mistake. WOW in a way has hanicapped players into thinking there is only one way to play and that leveling is easy etc etc. If you want WOW why leave it? Stop touring other games and stick with what makes you happy.
Comments
If the target audience of warhammer 40k should not be warhammer 40k players, why use ( and most likely tarnish) the warhammer IP? If the audience is people who don't even know/play warhammer, then why use the IP. It makes no sense.
I believe it should be the target audience as fans usually will buy things they have followed for years on blind faith. Warhammer Online showed that. But it won't.
Most mmos with a "niche" audience don't do very well simply because that crowd is too demanding on a company for as small as they usually are. They don't want fluff, they don't want easy exp, everyone to be as equal to THEIR toon, etc. Even successful mmos like FFXI that was true to it's community changed over time due to wanting to bring more business in. And that's a game with almost a 10 year history.
But in today's competitive market, companies look at the bottom line and industry leaders. Like it or not, that is WoW. Their demographic subbase is in the back of most company's minds and in the front in some of the larger ones.
It's the same reason companies close games that fans say "Why are they closing this game? Makes no sense... there are plenty of us supporting it." Fans only see what they want to see; they only care about getting a ego stroke or something.
A company will look at dollars and cents and nothing else.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Can you read between the lines are you mystical? Really im not joking, besides what is this wow clone you speak of? THink about it if there really was a wow clone out there it should ahve done well , seeing as wow is attractive and wildly successful game. (even if it is to noobies). But i have not seen this mystical wow clone yet. Maybe what you speak of is a mmorpg with progressive content in a semi liner fashion, then what you speak of is also see in war40k dow games, and every console rpg i know, and lets see most rpg games today. Maybe we shouldn't call it wow clone but an mmorpg with a story and plot. I understand some people may have lore, plot, and story, but to be a triple A mmorpg its pretty much required, becuase well like i said its more, And the likes of you are attempting to put forth any mmo with a plot and story line the player actual experience is well a WOW clone. SO BE IT. I LIKE SANDBOX ALSO BUT LETS FACE THE FACTS SANDBOX IS DULL for more than most players.
PVP is the only way to make sandbox games work. I personally like sandbox, i rarely read lore or quest ... im an old school mmorpg/gamer , but i also understand that others really like lore and story (i love books, they don't read books so for them its kinda liek their books) But lets be honest how many console rpgs have you played w/o story line, adding a story line to an rpg doesn't seem that crazy or wowish to me .... more so logical.
I can choose just not to read quests, so no harm to me. But no its a wow clone right.. I mean get over yourself, thq is trying to make the best mmorpg they can think of .... even if they do imitate wow ... by doing so they are immitating most mmorpgs, becuase wow is not really that different, but also not the same as other mmorpgs. It is what it is and WAr 40k will be what it will be; just like most mmorpgs, (other than some korean ones becuase they do have a copy paste issue with some of there older mmorpgs, but even this is changing.)
All this beign said war40k could be good or could be bad, we will see. But this entire wow clone sh*t need to stop, because its so illogical and rarely has basis. Other than any mmorpg that says ... i want a story line and i want a lot of players, i hope i get them, MAY JUST IN FACT BE A WOW CLONE LURKING UNDER ITS RELEASE DATE AND USE OF MORE THAN 12 COLORS. OHH THE HORROR. SOMEONE MAKE IT STOP.
Oh ps you think WAr40k DOW was played by ... rts or gaming fans at all ? Your right if so then why use war40k ip.... HOW ABOUT IS A RICH ENVIORMENT FILLED WITH STORY AND BACK STORY THAT MAKE A WONDEFUL TRANSITION INTO A THEMEPARK , WOW CLONE MMO?
Here is a better question, in a world so rich in plot and story, why not tell the story.... and you anit gonna do that in an sandbox. Is it possible? yeah. hard? 4 sure. has anyone done it yet... nope. I mean WAR40k DOW really didn't utilize war40k ip well, but i bet war40k DM will.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
And we should be thankful for this becuase ... it will get us better games. Companies want to make the best game they can, becuase .... it will make them money.
## I am addressing the haters not this poster ##
Too many people act liek their old games were super amazing eleet hardcore. I do it with daoc, i still play daoc ever so often. But most people don't. How many people honestly are still playing Eq1. See the real issue is you like aspect of eq1/daoc/acx that are no longer in these new games... but these new games have things that you like and don't have thing you didn't liek in those old games.
That is why instead of QQing like alot of people do about WoW you should actuall state what you want, what you liked thats not in wow.
For me open world interactive pvp thats not fair. - WAr40k may have this
For me open world and open dungeon pve camp exping - WAr40k could have this (i doubt it and it makes me sad, but i really would like to see this) Some day when all you wow bashing people stop it and start convaying what you want to see in mmorpgs we may get a AAA mmorpg that has both snadbox and linear progression. Sounds like ff14 at least is talkign liek it did some of this, it might not have at all it sounds good tho.
At the end of the day you'll get nothing done with all that hate and it doesn't make your arguements correct.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I agree with you. The old games in their exact forms would not cut it, even for us old schoolers. But the part we care about more, the spirit of the game, was lost. I think we desire the spirit of the play that existed back then, that is completely lost now in a sea of stats, gear grinding, hand holding adventures with lack luster story.... We desire some modern feature obviously, but we seek the 20th century holy grail of MMORPG's, the one that focuses more on adventure than ...the other crap.
And no Dragon Age/New star wars do not cut it. Anyone can tell you that it is in actuality a linear game design. And VERY hand fed.
This.
Also the quote was from a guy at THQ, not Visceral. That's the equivalent of Bobby Kotick being quoted as saying Starcraft 2 is going to be a great experience to anyone who enjoyed Mass Effect.
The Internet really is turning into the news media. Always quoting things out of context and spinning the story.
Are you seriously trying to claim Lotro and AoC are WoW clones???? ...wow
You couldn't be more wrong, period, and no idea where you get that idea from.
I'm argueing on the WoW clone side and even I stopped to be like....wait, what.
Aion is a WoW clone.......really, he just said that....
Too long.
Too emotional.
Please condense.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Most mmos with a "niche" audience don't do very well simply because that crowd is too demanding on a company for as small as they usually are. They don't want fluff, they don't want easy exp, everyone to be as equal to THEIR toon, etc. Even successful mmos like FFXI that was true to it's community changed over time due to wanting to bring more business in. And that's a game with almost a 10 year history.
But in today's competitive market, companies look at the bottom line and industry leaders. Like it or not, that is WoW. Their demographic subbase is in the back of most company's minds and in the front in some of the larger ones.
It's the same reason companies close games that fans say "Why are they closing this game? Makes no sense... there are plenty of us supporting it." Fans only see what they want to see; they only care about getting a ego stroke or something.
A company will look at dollars and cents and nothing else.
And we should be thankful for this becuase ... it will get us better games. Companies want to make the best game they can, becuase .... it will make them money.
## I am addressing the haters not this poster ##
Too many people act liek their old games were super amazing eleet hardcore. I do it with daoc, i still play daoc ever so often. But most people don't. How many people honestly are still playing Eq1. See the real issue is you like aspect of eq1/daoc/acx that are no longer in these new games... but these new games have things that you like and don't have thing you didn't liek in those old games.
That is why instead of QQing like alot of people do about WoW you should actuall state what you want, what you liked thats not in wow.
For me open world interactive pvp thats not fair. - WAr40k may have this
For me open world and open dungeon pve camp exping - WAr40k could have this (i doubt it and it makes me sad, but i really would like to see this) Some day when all you wow bashing people stop it and start convaying what you want to see in mmorpgs we may get a AAA mmorpg that has both snadbox and linear progression. Sounds like ff14 at least is talkign liek it did some of this, it might not have at all it sounds good tho.
At the end of the day you'll get nothing done with all that hate and it doesn't make your arguements correct.
I believe you went off point here from what I was talking about with the other poster.
We were discussing who is the "target audience" for this game and should they be targeted or not.
Apparently, the fans of WAR40K think they are the intended target audience when by that interview, they clearly are not.
The things you said above don't really address any of the above quotes but instead changed the topic about open worlds and old games.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Why so you can "read between the lines" and tell me what I myself am thinking. Its emotional becuase it has CAPS or I USED CAPS WITH EXTREMEM SCARCASIM TO MKAE IT MORE SARCASTIC AND CRAZY, BUT YOU DIDN'T READ IT BECUASE IT WAS OVER 100 WORDS. Ohh reading is hard.
If your going to act like you can read between the lines, but you can't read 3-4 pharagraphs i seriously doubt your ability to do so.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I still don't understand it. If WAR40k fans are not part of the intended audience, why use the IP. They could have just made an independent IP, it would have been the same thing to the intended audience as of right now.
It just boggles the mind what some developers do...
You are not the only poster in this thread, thast why that fancy " ## I am addressing the haters not this poster ##"
Is there. So you know i am well adressing the haters , not you the poster of the quote. In doing so i bring up topic they have brought up, they already made them or attempted to relate them to this thread. And i already stated that its not realted to your post
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Even with extremely little info on gameplay, lore, mechanics, and graphics, people are already calling it a World of Warcraft clone. Amazing the bad press people give some games based on one Alpha-stage video they saw. If it's not your cup of tea, don't complain, just leave those that enjoy their tea alone.
Oh, and you spelled "decides" wrong in your thread name. Congratulations
Way to not read the thread....At least read the OP...come on man
So aspiring to take 1 million subs from WOW makes this game a WOW clone? If this is the case one can only see more WOW clones in the future as I think most devs would like to aquire a few million WOW players.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
The other games that tried this strategy (WAR, Aion, AoC and a few others I forget) did not do so well. Players are a little burnt-out on that model and if the game is essentially the same but a little flashier but tertiery in line for this experience, it's not worth committing from an established mmo such as wow, has been proven.
That said, it will be another 3 years when WH40K comes out plus it will be Sci-Fi "wow" eg WoW lifts a lot from the original WH universe ip, so WH40K might just be the thing for these players looking for something fresh, it does have a few differences to the above titles, to make it more possible it could succeed.
The main thing boils down to the gameplay (as usual). If they can make the 3rd-person shooting combat work with fast-paced transport and space etc it might attract a good number of subs. But it's still risky especially choosing that 2 faction system everyone has experienced several times already and other sci-fi space mmo's might beat it to the punch, too. more info on how it shapes up needed, plus THQ have made some great RTS WH40K games to date also. Still open but personally would like them to go down the 5-factions path of resource/territory design and differentiate the game experience and stay true to the ip tag: "war is everywhere".... sounds familiar.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
You clearly were addressing a point I made, thats why you "quoted" me. You could have just made a new post and went off point.
But in response to yours, I'm not sure how a company having a slight interest in what should be the target audience (Warhammer faithful fans) but targeting a million people who probably don't even know what a "Warhammer" is (WoW fans) will as you say "... get us better games.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Every single game goes through a stage where they're called a Wow clone. I'm sure at one point there were people complaining that Darkfall and MO were too Wow-like. The people that do this are the lowest form of troll and should be laughed at appropriately.
I clearly did address you then in the first part then stopped addressing you for the secondard part and i made a header to note when i did this. Sry if thast too hard to understand.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
At least they're being honest about it
Who knows? It could be WoW but better.
"Some people feel the rain. Others just get wet." -Bob Marley
I'm probably one of those people who just get wet.
Wasn't the other Warhammer mmo already made with WoW in mind lol?
Here I thought they were taking another crack at it, but I guess they are just using the IP because it's there, and going to copying what's already been recreated 1000's of times now (mostly on the free market too), and somehow they think it's going to workout out for them..?
I'm never one for being a doomsayer, but this just seems to wreak of it to me
Relying on fans of an established IP to buy on blind faith? No. It hasn't worked for ANY of the established IPs that got an MMORPG.
Star Wars Galaxies? Failed.
Star Trek Online? Failed.
Lord of the Rings Online? Did okay.
Warhammer Online? Failed.
Age of Conan? Failed.
Matrix Online? Failed, plug pulled.
You may get a bunch of fans to buy at the beginning but a bad game will be seen as a bad game. Another thing that has to be taken into consideration when you pursue a fanbase of an established IP is how you respect / adhere to the IP itself. Fans of an established IP have expectations. They've followed books / movies / previous games / etc of that IP, and if you don't do it justice, you've put yourself in a huge hole with them.
A bad game is a bad game. And you're not doing yourself any favor either by alienating the very people that already would be inclined towards a product in an established IP.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I still confused how people are taking this comment and saying the game will be like WOW? This is clearly stating that he wants their subs period. He not saying our game will be like theirs or anything. You don't have to be like WOW to get their subs. You guys read way too much into this crap. Btw Lotro is a good game just has a small player base...Aion has over a million subs, and SWG was nothing like WOW. There is a difference between copying and the industry standard. Wow's UI system is the industry standard. If you play a game and it's UI is like WOW's then that because it works. There are no WOW clones because WOW was not the first MMO period.
SWG didn't fail...it just got old and outdated
STO is a niche market game...it will be around for a while and everyone knew the sub numbers would be low
Lotro is a =nother niche game no fail here excellent game just small sub numbers
Warhammer is a fail because they didn't deliver what they promised
AOC is recovering and but pretty much fail
Matrix online never had a chance....
Just because a game doesn't have a million subs doesn't mean it failed. The main problem with fan that have expectations is they expect the game to be like the one they left. It doesn't work like that. You should go into each new game with hopes but don't expect it to be just like WOW. There are alot of people who leave WOW expecting to find an upgraded WOW...this is a mistake. WOW in a way has hanicapped players into thinking there is only one way to play and that leveling is easy etc etc. If you want WOW why leave it? Stop touring other games and stick with what makes you happy.