So one of the guys usually complaining about Darkfall in the forums to a guy who is interested in Darkfall is also a councilor in NEW??!?
No wonder they keep leaving . .. lol
You are suppose to be helping out NEW players . .. not letting them hit a grind wall.
Your thinking is poisonous!
There is no grind wall . .. LMAO
All in your head and you keep spreading this filth around.
Madnessrealm I also have gripes about the game but I do not actively complain in forums or to others in game as I think that it makes others experience less enjoyable from my planting that seed. Please think about all of the people looking to you for guidance and help in finding a game to enjoy or finding enjoyment in this game that we play.
I complain about things sometimes but I do not call things game-killing like you have. Do you ever think of those who would have enjoyed this game a lot more than you but never gave it a shot because of your influence?
edit: a lot of what you say I agree with . .. I just wonder if you ever think about the way that you think and the way thinking spreads. Ever think about restructuring a sentence to get the same point across without discouraging new people?
Same goes with Xianthos . .. makes me wonder if he is working for a competing game sometimes because it is so negative.
If the only thing you are able to do is take a part of my post and twist it around and insult me, perhaps you should avoid forums, as you are unable to argue anything in a mature way. You are completly ignorant about the functioning of NEW, so I'd ask that you avoid issues to which you can only "pretend" to know what you are talking about.
The "job" of a NEW Counselor is to answer new players questions, provide armors and weapons if the Clan Bank allows it, solve issues amongst members and do some little events if time allows it. NEW Counselors may not discuss or influence new players regarding specific clans to preserve a certain amount of neutrality, though they can tell you if this clan has been friendly with NEW or not. Also handle Clan Relationships and other issues with Guests in Hammerdale.
So that "guy usually complaining about DarkFall on forums" has done a lot more than you have to help new players. I've dedicated a lot of times to help them learn the ropes, answer their questions, etc. Never did I tell them about "Grind Wall" or anything, they found out about it fairly quickly by themselves, as Hammerdale likely has more PvP than most clans in DarkFall. The negative criticism that I make regarding DarkFall are based around facts I have gathered throughout my experience with both DarkFall and it's community.
DarkFall's new player retention rate is EXTREMELY low. Not because of bad advices from NEW Counselors, but because of bad game mechanic, bad and exploitable systems, horrible UI, boring PvE, and the list of reasons goes on and on. DarkFall even has issues retaining Veterans. Far too many have left. And I don't think I'm wrong to claim that one of the main reason DarkFall is still alive is because NEW helps enough players learn the ropes so they don't rage quit, even though many does.
What have you done to help DarkFall and new players?
And if you think that my words may have discouraged players to join DarkFall, because I brought facts about the actual state of the game, and you believe that I may be amongst the reasons why DarkFall as such a small player-base, then let me ask you. If DarkFall is such a great game, why should a single poster be so "effective"? Shouldn't this "negative poster"'s threads be overwhelmed by a horde of Positive threads? But it's not the case isn't it? Don't you think that it might be because DarkFall isn't actually the perfect great game of all time you try to make it look like?
Your post have no background, you are only able to insult other users based on false pretense. If you're trying to convince people to join DarkFall, don't you think that insulting other users may actually do the opposite? Because you might point your finger at other users and say "You lie!".....doesn't make it true.
So one of the guys usually complaining about Darkfall in the forums to a guy who is interested in Darkfall is also a councilor in NEW??!?
No wonder they keep leaving . .. lol
You are suppose to be helping out NEW players . .. not letting them hit a grind wall.
Your thinking is poisonous!
There is no grind wall . .. LMAO
All in your head and you keep spreading this filth around.
Madnessrealm I also have gripes about the game but I do not actively complain in forums or to others in game as I think that it makes others experience less enjoyable from my planting that seed. Please think about all of the people looking to you for guidance and help in finding a game to enjoy or finding enjoyment in this game that we play.
I complain about things sometimes but I do not call things game-killing like you have. Do you ever think of those who would have enjoyed this game a lot more than you but never gave it a shot because of your influence?
edit: a lot of what you say I agree with . .. I just wonder if you ever think about the way that you think and the way thinking spreads. Ever think about restructuring a sentence to get the same point across without discouraging new people?
Same goes with Xianthos . .. makes me wonder if he is working for a competing game sometimes because it is so negative.
If the only thing you are able to do is take a part of my post and twist it around and insult me, perhaps you should avoid forums, as you are unable to argue anything in a mature way. You are completly ignorant about the functioning of NEW, so I'd ask that you avoid issues to which you can only "pretend" to know what you are talking about.
The "job" of a NEW Counselor is to answer new players questions, provide armors and weapons if the Clan Bank allows it, solve issues amongst members and do some little events if time allows it. NEW Counselors may not discuss or influence new players regarding specific clans to preserve a certain amount of neutrality, though they can tell you if this clan has been friendly with NEW or not. Also handle Clan Relationships and other issues with Guests in Hammerdale.
So that "guy usually complaining about DarkFall on forums" has done a lot more than you have to help new players. I've dedicated a lot of times to help them learn the ropes, answer their questions, etc. Never did I tell them about "Grind Wall" or anything, they found out about it fairly quickly by themselves, as Hammerdale likely has more PvP than most clans in DarkFall. The negative criticism that I make regarding DarkFall are based around facts I have gathered throughout my experience with both DarkFall and it's community.
DarkFall's new player retention rate is EXTREMELY low. Not because of bad advices from NEW Counselors, but because of bad game mechanic, bad and exploitable systems, horrible UI, boring PvE, and the list of reasons goes on and on. DarkFall even has issues retaining Veterans. Far too many have left. And I don't think I'm wrong to claim that one of the main reason DarkFall is still alive is because NEW helps enough players learn the ropes so they don't rage quit, even though many does.
What have you done to help DarkFall and new players?
And if you think that my words may have discouraged players to join DarkFall, because I brought facts about the actual state of the game, and you believe that I may be amongst the reasons why DarkFall as such a small player-base, then let me ask you. If DarkFall is such a great game, why should a single poster be so "effective"? Shouldn't this "negative poster"'s threads be overwhelmed by a horde of Positive threads? But it's not the case isn't it? Don't you think that it might be because DarkFall isn't actually the perfect great game of all time you try to make it look like?
Your post have no background, you are only able to insult other users based on false pretense. If you're trying to convince people to join DarkFall, don't you think that insulting other users may actually do the opposite? Because you might point your finger at other users and say "You lie!".....doesn't make it true.
Post 4tw.
Sid never had any credibility. He is likes all the others vets, who didnt care about forum and showed here only as they realised that they dont have enough sheeps to farm. They claim the game is perfect and deny any flaws it has (grind, broken alligment system and other stuff). Starving wolves? Isnt this irony lovely? :-)
Of course what I'm writing are my "personal views". Obviously some will play DFO and share them and others won't; that was my whole point. The only thing I'm genuinely tired of is reading posts from those who haven't played the game for quite a while yet for some reason feel compelled to be major contributors here and all they do is repeat the same criticism over and over on multiple posts from multiple gamers. I find it wierd.
-CC
Maybe you thought that the game isnt worth the money for these people? You know not all people are sheeps. Some vote with their wallet. If the game isnt good enough (too many flaws) they stop supporting it until it is fixed? The power of money you know.
And the major flaws are there already almost 2 years and werent even touched (broken alligment system, broken economy).
After watching some gameplay videos and watching the forums for a subsidence in gameplay hate I have decided to play Darkfall.
Just from hearing from of the other newbs posting here have me intrigued. FFA PvP, a learning curve with the added bonus of no more hand holding....yea, sign me up.
I am sure I will nerd-rage with the best of them as my lazy gaming habits get torn down.
So who else wants to try the trial and see if this game can be the next ultima online?
So how's it going so far?
To your original question, if you haven't yet, I suggest viewing the following tutorial videos. They are very well made and terrifc for new players.
DarkFall's new player retention rate is EXTREMELY low. Not because of bad advices from NEW Counselors, but because of bad game mechanic, bad and exploitable systems, horrible UI, boring PvE, and the list of reasons goes on and on. DarkFall even has issues retaining Veterans. Far too many have left. And I don't think I'm wrong to claim that one of the main reason DarkFall is still alive is because NEW helps enough players learn the ropes so they don't rage quit, even though many does.
What have you done to help DarkFall and new players?
And if you think that my words may have discouraged players to join DarkFall, because I brought facts about the actual state of the game, and you believe that I may be amongst the reasons why DarkFall as such a small player-base, then let me ask you. If DarkFall is such a great game, why should a single poster be so "effective"? Shouldn't this "negative poster"'s threads be overwhelmed by a horde of Positive threads? But it's not the case isn't it? Don't you think that it might be because DarkFall isn't actually the perfect great game of all time you try to make it look like?
I did not mean to insult you . .. but I think that your thinking is flawed. Take that however you want.
What is the grind wall that they hit on their own? I haven't come across any walls so far so I am not sure what you are talking about. Are you talking about witches brew or what exactly? LOL grind wall . .. what a joke.
What bad game mechanics? Is this going to turn into 'omg alignment is broken' discussion? Or maybe a 'please fix combat cuz its too hard with bunny hoppers'? Not sure what mechanics you are talking about. This game works great everytime that I play it so I am not sure what is considered 'bad game mechanics' so please clarify for me.
Bad and exploitable systems? What game does not have this? What are we even talking about? Macroing? AFK swimming? Going into terrain?
Horrible UI? It is only horrible if you do not know how to customize it. I like it more than any other game that I have ever played because of my setup now. Have you shown any new people how to create a good setup or are you still stuck with a crappy one yourself?
Boring PVE? Sucks for you and your clan I guess. I love the PVE in Darkfall and find it more enjoyable than PVE in any other game at the moment. It is challenging with risk involved. I love Darkfall combat!
List of reasons . .. like what? Most of the people I play with stop because of RL obligations and people that I chat with in vent and group with me all love this game and have a lot of fun everytime that we play. The game is not good enough to waste away your real life on but what game is? Most people that I know who left would still be playing if they had more time/money/etc. and did not leave because of broken issues or whatever. People who I know who left because they became bored are coming back for the expansion.
I help out new people all of the time . ..
What facts are you talking about exactly? It sounds like flawed thinking that should be corrected to get the most enjoyment out of the game. How is NEW helping out new players if they are finding all of these game-killing 'facts'? It doesn't sound like they are helping if people are getting stuck on 'grind walls' or whatever . .. and boring PVE . .. sounds like a boring clan to me filled with people who do not know how to create their own fun. A helpful clan will be enjoyable to PVE and PVP with and help with whatever 'wall' that you come across.
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I did not mean to insult you . .. but I think that your thinking is flawed. Take that however you want.
What is the grind wall that they hit on their own? I haven't come across any walls so far so I am not sure what you are talking about. Are you talking about witches brew or what exactly? LOL grind wall . .. what a joke.
The grind wall, the moment a player realize that he cannot compete in PvP unless he grind for a very long amount of time. And no, "new players getting together to defend" doesn't always help, hell, it already ever works. Just look at NEW (NA) Hammerdale who gets raided by Mourn Vallas alone from time to time. He alone will kill all NEW players in Hammerdale, regardless of wether or not they group up to take him (and we're talking about 10+ players....10vs1....) and even some of the Guests visitors who come in to help. This alone says MORE THAN ENOUGH to show that players who want to PvP DO HAVE TO GRIND, or else they'll serve as meat shield that last 4 hits before they die...
What bad game mechanics? Is this going to turn into 'omg alignment is broken' discussion? Or maybe a 'please fix combat cuz its too hard with bunny hoppers'? Not sure what mechanics you are talking about. This game works great everytime that I play it so I am not sure what is considered 'bad game mechanics' so please clarify for me. Bad and exploitable systems? What game does not have this? What are we even talking about? Macroing? AFK swimming? Going into terrain?
Do I need to say more to show that most players do recongize the issues with various mechanics in DarkFall? Because I think it's pretty obvious.
Horrible UI? It is only horrible if you do not know how to customize it. I like it more than any other game that I have ever played because of my setup now. Have you shown any new people how to create a good setup or are you still stuck with a crappy one yourself?
"It's only horrible if you do not know how to customize it"? Really? Players prefer to use Ventrilo over Clan Chat, not only because it's more convenient, but because the Chat Tab alone is horrible. The overall UI is not intuitive. I've been used to the UI since I joined, but still hear New Players trying to figure out how basic things works, and helping them through setting it so that it may become as intuitive as possible. But that alone is a challenge only time can fix.
Boring PVE? Sucks for you and your clan I guess. I love the PVE in Darkfall and find it more enjoyable than PVE in any other game at the moment. It is challenging with risk involved. I love Darkfall combat!
YOU love PvE. But there's a reason why Aventurine is working on a PvE Expansion to make PvE more interesting, and it's because it's NOT. Most players seems to agree that is need work.
List of reasons . .. like what? Most of the people I play with stop because of RL obligations and people that I chat with in vent and group with me all love this game and have a lot of fun everytime that we play. The game is not good enough to waste away your real life on but what game is? Most people that I know who left would still be playing if they had more time/money/etc. and did not leave because of broken issues or whatever. People who I know who left because they became bored are coming back for the expansion.
I help out new people all of the time . ..
What facts are you talking about exactly? It sounds like flawed thinking that should be corrected to get the most enjoyment out of the game. How is NEW helping out new players if they are finding all of these game-killing 'facts'? It doesn't sound like they are helping if people are getting stuck on 'grind walls' or whatever . .. and boring PVE . .. sounds like a boring clan to me filled with people who do not know how to create their own fun. A helpful clan will be enjoyable to PVE and PVP with and help with whatever 'wall' that you come across.
It's not a flawed thinking, it's the game that needs to be corrected so players can find more enjoyement out of it. NEW is one of the main reason why DarkFall is still alive, and if players found out about the reality of things, which is that they WILL need to grind, then it's because there truly is an issue. Hide it all you want, it's still a reality. NEW likely has more PvP going on then most clans, Hammerdale getting raided not on a daily basis but on an hourly basis. PvE groups are still formed and it's fun and all too. And forget about "creating your own fun", DarkFall has no tools to build that fun. And forget about Fun Hulks, it's not a sandbox feature and it's purpose is extremely limited. There is very little things to create funs, most clans all end up in Griefer clans because there's nothing else to do. Just look up the Suggestion Forums, read the hundreds and thousands of suggestions on how to fix KEY features about DarkFall.
You can close your ears and and loudly sing "LA LA LA LA LA LA", doesn't change the facts that most players are
A: Not happy about many of the current system.
B: Not happy about the lack of players and both new and veteran player retention rate
C: Not happy about the slow response time of AV, and their inability to succesfully fix key issues
Just because you think everything is fine, doesn't mean it is and most people on ForumFall seems to agree that no, not everything is fine.
Thats nice . .. but most players don't know Darkfall combat much. If I was a leader than I would tell myself that it would be up to me to fix it.
Combat experience will help more than stats/skills. It is just like in Call of Duty or other FPS games where you get slaughtered until you have memorized the maps and learned to use effective tactics . .. which can take months to learn just like in Darkfall. In Darkfall, combat is a lot more rare than in FPS games so new people seriously lack in combat experience.
Before I even had witchesbrew I used to camp all of NEW city (10-20 players usually) by myself while wearing rank 0s and leather like 8 months ago. I bet that many of them had more skills than me (but I had more HP I am sure) but they are so easy because of their lack of combat training. I havent even grind other than the 10 hours of debuffing mobs for witchesbrew. I was able to get one melee mastery, sharpshooting, and witchesbrew on a trial account easily and it was fun. That can be enough to kill a year old vet with enough training . .. and I mean dueling for at least an hour everytime that you play for a couple months at the very least but probably need to do excercises with friends besides that.
You think that I am being ignorant and stubborn "LA LA LA LA" I am not listening or whatever but it seems to me that most of the Darkfall community has this problem and does not think enough about how it was their fault every time that they die (not the game's fault for not giving away skills/stats for free). If you do not blame yourself when you die than how are you going to think that you will have the capability to win during your next encounter? By thinking that you died because of lower skills/stats than you are just setting yourself up to lose again . .. and will have a harder time winning fights vs those who have more stats/skills since you tell yourself that you cannot beat them.
I find it sad that so much of the community have all of these flaws in their thinking.
'Oh no I am going to have to kill mobs to be able to PVP' . .. is about the stupidest thing to think in a FFA PVP full-loot game where items break from losing durability. Everyone who plays will need an income and it will probably be mostly from PVE so the 'grind' will never end so long as you lose items. You may even have to PVE more often when you are further developed if you lose matches often because good gear is not easily replaced.
If I was a clan leader and my people were running into a 'grind wall' because they think that they need to for PVP than I would consider that my problem and not the games problems. I would log onto an alt who has lower skill to kill them and show the doubters how important practice and experience is. Same thing goes for 'boring PVE' . ... I would not think that this is the games fault as much as my own fault for not making the clan funner to be in (not the game, that is just stupid because this game is fun as hell!).
No matter how developed your character will become, you will always need to warm up before PVP or you will get killed usually. New players do not even know how to warm up . .. the last thing that they should be thinking is, "I will get good as long as I have higher skills/stats" or "omg that guy who killed me used a spell that effectively blinded me for a few seconds so that means that I need that spell to win" . .. this kind of thinking will set you up to fail and you will not enjoy the game nearly as much as the people who keep killing you.
One of the last player-cities that I lived in had a bunch of new people. I went out to quest with them and before we went I was saying how it was really stupid of us to head out without dueling eachother first to get warmed up but nobody would. So we go out to the dungeon and whille I am looking for the exit a black shield buy jumps them and kills all of them . . . so I run back and finish him off and res everyone and but before I could gank the guy, the rest of his group came down on us and we all died. So we spawn and I talk about dueling eachother and then going back . .. but none of the new players wants to duel or practice and just log out. Only one of the guys would practice with me so we did for only about 30 minutes. We did some simple excercises and at first I was killing him within just a few seconds. After only a half hour of traininig he was so warmed up and in the right mindset that it was taking me several minutes just to get his HP down a quarter of the way . .. nice story eh? I am just trying to make an example of how training makes such a huge difference and how new players are not helpless. Not one guy tried to parry the Black Shields guys and that was all that they had to do to start winning the fight because the newbs were blocking the entrance and mobs were hitting the PKs very hard in the back so they would have probably been forced to turn around because each hit by the mob was a huge chunk of health gone. New people do not know how to react. That is their main problem.
By the time that a new person farmed PVE until he has a few good sets of gear he will have enough skills/stats to kill just about anyone so long as they have enough practice (which takes months of training). Stats/skills only give a player an edge and are not going to win the match for him. The older player is allowed more mistakes and can recover easier.
And no I am not saying this just to sucker new people into the game so that I can kill them . .. c'mon now that is pretty paranoid thinking.
Edit: fixed it just for you . .. I would hate to come across as 'offensive' or 'im right your wrong' when trying to help the community see some flaws in some ways of thinking. We want the same things so should be on the same side.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Thats nice . .. but most players are dumbasses. If I was a leader than I would tell myself that it would be up to me to fix it.
It's very rare that I do that, so congratulation. I stopped reading after that line.
"It's not me, it's them"
Is this all you can come up with? Don't you understand that it's these exact "dumbasses" who've been keeping DarkFall alive by paying subs? Is it alright if we disagree with you? Or does that make us "dumbasses"?
Players don't have to meet your criterias anyway, what they want is for Aventurine to bring the right changes to DarkFall, wether you agree or not with some of the changes, is an opinion and if so, state your case. But calling them dumbasses....you know better, Sid.
Edit: Oh I see what you did there Sid, nice edit! Too late though!
Thats nice . .. but most players are dumbasses. If I was a leader than I would tell myself that it would be up to me to fix it.
And this statement makes you clever or intelligent? Ok maybe im just spoilled that i have to work on daily buisness with a lot of very intelligent people, but i would say you proved that you are a hypocrate. You claim to be intelligent, clever and meanwhile make such dumb statments. For a lot of people would that mean that you arent so "clever or intelligent".
In your place i would be very carefull to call people dumb just so.
Darkfall isn't particularly grindy. Just ignore the trolls who cry grind all day because they have to make up to their own failures in the game by putting the blame on mechanics rather than themselves.
I played DF very casually, mostly before the huge grind-reduction, and I got some decent skills and stats. I was also able to be of use during PvP because teamplay and personal skill does have a lot to say. (Even though the ones on the losing side always claim otherwise..)
Darkfall isn't particularly grindy. Just ignore the trolls who cry grind all day because they have to make up to their own failures in the game by putting the blame on mechanics rather than themselves.
I played DF very casually, mostly before the huge grind-reduction, and I got some decent skills and stats. I was also able to be of use during PvP because teamplay and personal skill does have a lot to say. (Even though the ones on the losing side always claim otherwise..)
It's your choice if you want to call other members who disagree with you "Trolls" (which is against this forum rules by the way), but at least do back up your claims that no there is no grind with valid informations.
You were playing close to launch (a bit later, grind reduction patch in April or was it in the June 2009?), which means that most of the PvP encounter you'd meet where around your "level". Sure since many clans had started to macro their way up, some were clearly stronger, but nothing that could not be handled by outnumbering your opponent if you were a new player.
Now, a single players can kill 10 new players by himself, without really trying and leave with half of his HP left, which he can heal fairly quickly. The reality here is that the gap between new players and veterans is huge, and is one of the main reason why players feel grind, because they joined DarkFall to PvP, as players hyped it. (That and lack of Specliazations are the main factor for grind.). And so far, player skills may or may not matter, gear and skills ranks matters the most at the moment. Especially with Instant Cast Rays, which will deal lots of damage within 1 second if you have a macro set (something that is very common in Darkfall).....
Darkfall isn't particularly grindy. Just ignore the trolls who cry grind all day because they have to make up to their own failures in the game by putting the blame on mechanics rather than themselves.
I played DF very casually, mostly before the huge grind-reduction, and I got some decent skills and stats. I was also able to be of use during PvP because teamplay and personal skill does have a lot to say. (Even though the ones on the losing side always claim otherwise..)
It's your choice if you want to call other members who disagree with you "Trolls" (which is against this forum rules by the way), but at least do back up your claims that no there is no grind with valid informations.
You were playing close to launch (a bit later, grind reduction patch in April or was it in the June 2009?), which means that most of the PvP encounter you'd meet where around your "level". Sure since many clans had started to macro their way up, some were clearly stronger, but nothing that could not be handled by outnumbering your opponent if you were a new player.
Now, a single players can kill 10 new players by himself, without really trying and leave with half of his HP left, which he can heal fairly quickly. The reality here is that the gap between new players and veterans is huge, and is one of the main reason why players feel grind, because they joined DarkFall to PvP, as players hyped it. (That and lack of Specliazations are the main factor for grind.). And so far, player skills may or may not matter, gear and skills ranks matters the most at the moment. Especially with Instant Cast Rays, which will deal lots of damage within 1 second if you have a macro set (something that is very common in Darkfall).....
I played till late jan 2010. But thanks for making wong assumptions anyway. Also, that patch was late 09.
And backing up my claims.. Lol, what? Have anyone ever backed up their "THIS GAME IS GRINDY IT TAKES 8 MONTHS TO BECOME VIABLE"-claims? Those claims are complete bollocks and they know it. It doesn't take very long to max out a single skill and the stats come along with the skills naturally. Stats also have decreased gains the higher they get.
Oh, and your little 1v10 scenario doesn't mean jack, you know why? Because the 10 won't have 10 % of the gear value on them altogether. And they won't have 10 % of the fighting experience.
If 10 vets with new characters and similar gear were to meet a top-farmed character in similar gear.. They would destroy him.
Darkfall isn't particularly grindy. Just ignore the trolls who cry grind all day because they have to make up to their own failures in the game by putting the blame on mechanics rather than themselves.
I played DF very casually, mostly before the huge grind-reduction, and I got some decent skills and stats. I was also able to be of use during PvP because teamplay and personal skill does have a lot to say. (Even though the ones on the losing side always claim otherwise..)
It's your choice if you want to call other members who disagree with you "Trolls" (which is against this forum rules by the way), but at least do back up your claims that no there is no grind with valid informations.
You were playing close to launch (a bit later, grind reduction patch in April or was it in the June 2009?), which means that most of the PvP encounter you'd meet where around your "level". Sure since many clans had started to macro their way up, some were clearly stronger, but nothing that could not be handled by outnumbering your opponent if you were a new player.
Now, a single players can kill 10 new players by himself, without really trying and leave with half of his HP left, which he can heal fairly quickly. The reality here is that the gap between new players and veterans is huge, and is one of the main reason why players feel grind, because they joined DarkFall to PvP, as players hyped it. (That and lack of Specliazations are the main factor for grind.). And so far, player skills may or may not matter, gear and skills ranks matters the most at the moment. Especially with Instant Cast Rays, which will deal lots of damage within 1 second if you have a macro set (something that is very common in Darkfall).....
I played till late jan 2010. But thanks for making wong assumptions anyway. Also, that patch was late 09.
And backing up my claims.. Lol, what? Have anyone ever backed up their "THIS GAME IS GRINDY IT TAKES 8 MONTHS TO BECOME VIABLE"-claims? Those claims are complete bollocks and they know it. It doesn't take very long to max out a single skill and the stats come along with the skills naturally. Stats also have decreased gains the higher they get.
Oh, and your little 1v10 scenario doesn't mean jack, you know why? Because the 10 won't have 10 % of the gear value on them altogether. And they won't have 10 % of the fighting experience.
If 10 vets with new characters and similar gear were to meet a top-farmed character in similar gear.. They would destroy him.
First part, you said yourself that you played mostly before the grind-reduction patch, which means 2009. Next time, clarify your posts if you don't want players to make "wrong assumptions". And no, the grind reduction patch was in the April or June 2009 (can't remember which one of the 2), late 2009 was CtS Expac, which had nothing to do with skill-grind.
Aventurine put up the HP Patch because there was indeed an issue, with grind. HP Patch hasn't done much in itself though, if not to allow new players to survive 2 more hits, but that's about it.
I don't know why you can even claim that 1vs10 scenario doesn't mean jack. The exemple I used was something that happened in Hammerdale (NEW NA) while I was visiting. Most NEW are wearing Bone or Scale, and often use r40 melee weapons, so it's not entirely "bad gear", it's the common stuff. A single player comes in, wearing Bone Armor (he's a hybrid), and litteraly crush all 10 players without even trying. It's that ridiculous.
Also, the "10 vets with new characters and similar gear were to meet a top-farmed character in similar gear...They would destroy him" part....that's just wrong. Unless the vet is afk, forget about winning. If you disagree, feel free to get 10 of your vets friends to roll an new character alt and go kill a vet, and film it.
Darkfall isn't particularly grindy. Just ignore the trolls who cry grind all day because they have to make up to their own failures in the game by putting the blame on mechanics rather than themselves.
I played DF very casually, mostly before the huge grind-reduction, and I got some decent skills and stats. I was also able to be of use during PvP because teamplay and personal skill does have a lot to say. (Even though the ones on the losing side always claim otherwise..)
It's your choice if you want to call other members who disagree with you "Trolls" (which is against this forum rules by the way), but at least do back up your claims that no there is no grind with valid informations.
You were playing close to launch (a bit later, grind reduction patch in April or was it in the June 2009?), which means that most of the PvP encounter you'd meet where around your "level". Sure since many clans had started to macro their way up, some were clearly stronger, but nothing that could not be handled by outnumbering your opponent if you were a new player.
Now, a single players can kill 10 new players by himself, without really trying and leave with half of his HP left, which he can heal fairly quickly. The reality here is that the gap between new players and veterans is huge, and is one of the main reason why players feel grind, because they joined DarkFall to PvP, as players hyped it. (That and lack of Specliazations are the main factor for grind.). And so far, player skills may or may not matter, gear and skills ranks matters the most at the moment. Especially with Instant Cast Rays, which will deal lots of damage within 1 second if you have a macro set (something that is very common in Darkfall).....
I played till late jan 2010. But thanks for making wong assumptions anyway. Also, that patch was late 09.
And backing up my claims.. Lol, what? Have anyone ever backed up their "THIS GAME IS GRINDY IT TAKES 8 MONTHS TO BECOME VIABLE"-claims? Those claims are complete bollocks and they know it. It doesn't take very long to max out a single skill and the stats come along with the skills naturally. Stats also have decreased gains the higher they get.
Oh, and your little 1v10 scenario doesn't mean jack, you know why? Because the 10 won't have 10 % of the gear value on them altogether. And they won't have 10 % of the fighting experience.
If 10 vets with new characters and similar gear were to meet a top-farmed character in similar gear.. They would destroy him.
First part, you said yourself that you played mostly before the grind-reduction patch, which means 2009. Next time, clarify your posts if you don't want players to make "wrong assumptions". And no, the grind reduction patch was in the April or June 2009 (can't remember which one of the 2), late 2009 was CtS Expac, which had nothing to do with skill-grind. Keyword: mostly.
Aventurine put up the HP Patch because there was indeed an issue, with grind. HP Patch hasn't done much in itself though, if not to allow new players to survive 2 more hits, but that's about it. This means that the gap is very small, if such a giant step towards a maxed character means so little...
I don't know why you can even claim that 1vs10 scenario doesn't mean jack. The exemple I used was something that happened in Hammerdale (NEW NA) while I was visiting. Most NEW are wearing Bone or Scale, and often use r40 melee weapons, so it's not entirely "bad gear", it's the common stuff. A single player comes in, wearing Bone Armor (he's a hybrid), and litteraly crush all 10 players without even trying. It's that ridiculous.
Also, the "10 vets with new characters and similar gear were to meet a top-farmed character in similar gear...They would destroy him" part....that's just wrong. Unless the vet is afk, forget about winning. If you disagree, feel free to get 10 of your vets friends to roll an new character alt and go kill a vet, and film it.
One of the "omg macroer"-vets actually did reroll and went solo pvp with a character that he only skilled up in a matter of a few days and was able to fight much older chars. And why would you bother to reply with that? It's not like your 10 bad players in pre-patch gear makes the system unbalanced. It makes your buddies bad. The level gap is much smaller from new to fully leveled than in any other newer mmorpg. (Yes, MO included)
Comments
If the only thing you are able to do is take a part of my post and twist it around and insult me, perhaps you should avoid forums, as you are unable to argue anything in a mature way. You are completly ignorant about the functioning of NEW, so I'd ask that you avoid issues to which you can only "pretend" to know what you are talking about.
The "job" of a NEW Counselor is to answer new players questions, provide armors and weapons if the Clan Bank allows it, solve issues amongst members and do some little events if time allows it. NEW Counselors may not discuss or influence new players regarding specific clans to preserve a certain amount of neutrality, though they can tell you if this clan has been friendly with NEW or not. Also handle Clan Relationships and other issues with Guests in Hammerdale.
So that "guy usually complaining about DarkFall on forums" has done a lot more than you have to help new players. I've dedicated a lot of times to help them learn the ropes, answer their questions, etc. Never did I tell them about "Grind Wall" or anything, they found out about it fairly quickly by themselves, as Hammerdale likely has more PvP than most clans in DarkFall. The negative criticism that I make regarding DarkFall are based around facts I have gathered throughout my experience with both DarkFall and it's community.
DarkFall's new player retention rate is EXTREMELY low. Not because of bad advices from NEW Counselors, but because of bad game mechanic, bad and exploitable systems, horrible UI, boring PvE, and the list of reasons goes on and on. DarkFall even has issues retaining Veterans. Far too many have left. And I don't think I'm wrong to claim that one of the main reason DarkFall is still alive is because NEW helps enough players learn the ropes so they don't rage quit, even though many does.
What have you done to help DarkFall and new players?
And if you think that my words may have discouraged players to join DarkFall, because I brought facts about the actual state of the game, and you believe that I may be amongst the reasons why DarkFall as such a small player-base, then let me ask you. If DarkFall is such a great game, why should a single poster be so "effective"? Shouldn't this "negative poster"'s threads be overwhelmed by a horde of Positive threads? But it's not the case isn't it? Don't you think that it might be because DarkFall isn't actually the perfect great game of all time you try to make it look like?
Your post have no background, you are only able to insult other users based on false pretense. If you're trying to convince people to join DarkFall, don't you think that insulting other users may actually do the opposite? Because you might point your finger at other users and say "You lie!".....doesn't make it true.
Post 4tw.
Sid never had any credibility. He is likes all the others vets, who didnt care about forum and showed here only as they realised that they dont have enough sheeps to farm. They claim the game is perfect and deny any flaws it has (grind, broken alligment system and other stuff). Starving wolves? Isnt this irony lovely? :-)
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Maybe you thought that the game isnt worth the money for these people? You know not all people are sheeps. Some vote with their wallet. If the game isnt good enough (too many flaws) they stop supporting it until it is fixed? The power of money you know.
And the major flaws are there already almost 2 years and werent even touched (broken alligment system, broken economy).
[Mod edit]
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So how's it going so far?
To your original question, if you haven't yet, I suggest viewing the following tutorial videos. They are very well made and terrifc for new players.
http://www.youtube.com/user/DFValroth#p/u/5/sDgGgunLhmA
http://www.youtube.com/user/DFValroth#p/u/4/6CrxiN4pdHU
http://www.youtube.com/user/DFValroth#p/u/2/Q5e19MP4AW4
http://www.youtube.com/user/DFValroth#p/u/1/4uTYTpT6Sd8
I'd suggest watching any other videos Valroth made. He is an excellent player and makes great videos one can learn a lot from in addition to enjoy.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
I did not mean to insult you . .. but I think that your thinking is flawed. Take that however you want.
What is the grind wall that they hit on their own? I haven't come across any walls so far so I am not sure what you are talking about. Are you talking about witches brew or what exactly? LOL grind wall . .. what a joke.
What bad game mechanics? Is this going to turn into 'omg alignment is broken' discussion? Or maybe a 'please fix combat cuz its too hard with bunny hoppers'? Not sure what mechanics you are talking about. This game works great everytime that I play it so I am not sure what is considered 'bad game mechanics' so please clarify for me.
Bad and exploitable systems? What game does not have this? What are we even talking about? Macroing? AFK swimming? Going into terrain?
Horrible UI? It is only horrible if you do not know how to customize it. I like it more than any other game that I have ever played because of my setup now. Have you shown any new people how to create a good setup or are you still stuck with a crappy one yourself?
Boring PVE? Sucks for you and your clan I guess. I love the PVE in Darkfall and find it more enjoyable than PVE in any other game at the moment. It is challenging with risk involved. I love Darkfall combat!
List of reasons . .. like what? Most of the people I play with stop because of RL obligations and people that I chat with in vent and group with me all love this game and have a lot of fun everytime that we play. The game is not good enough to waste away your real life on but what game is? Most people that I know who left would still be playing if they had more time/money/etc. and did not leave because of broken issues or whatever. People who I know who left because they became bored are coming back for the expansion.
I help out new people all of the time . ..
What facts are you talking about exactly? It sounds like flawed thinking that should be corrected to get the most enjoyment out of the game. How is NEW helping out new players if they are finding all of these game-killing 'facts'? It doesn't sound like they are helping if people are getting stuck on 'grind walls' or whatever . .. and boring PVE . .. sounds like a boring clan to me filled with people who do not know how to create their own fun. A helpful clan will be enjoyable to PVE and PVP with and help with whatever 'wall' that you come across.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
You can close your ears and and loudly sing "LA LA LA LA LA LA", doesn't change the facts that most players are
A: Not happy about many of the current system.
B: Not happy about the lack of players and both new and veteran player retention rate
C: Not happy about the slow response time of AV, and their inability to succesfully fix key issues
Just because you think everything is fine, doesn't mean it is and most people on ForumFall seems to agree that no, not everything is fine.
Answers are in red.
Thats nice . .. but most players don't know Darkfall combat much. If I was a leader than I would tell myself that it would be up to me to fix it.
Combat experience will help more than stats/skills. It is just like in Call of Duty or other FPS games where you get slaughtered until you have memorized the maps and learned to use effective tactics . .. which can take months to learn just like in Darkfall. In Darkfall, combat is a lot more rare than in FPS games so new people seriously lack in combat experience.
Before I even had witchesbrew I used to camp all of NEW city (10-20 players usually) by myself while wearing rank 0s and leather like 8 months ago. I bet that many of them had more skills than me (but I had more HP I am sure) but they are so easy because of their lack of combat training. I havent even grind other than the 10 hours of debuffing mobs for witchesbrew. I was able to get one melee mastery, sharpshooting, and witchesbrew on a trial account easily and it was fun. That can be enough to kill a year old vet with enough training . .. and I mean dueling for at least an hour everytime that you play for a couple months at the very least but probably need to do excercises with friends besides that.
You think that I am being ignorant and stubborn "LA LA LA LA" I am not listening or whatever but it seems to me that most of the Darkfall community has this problem and does not think enough about how it was their fault every time that they die (not the game's fault for not giving away skills/stats for free). If you do not blame yourself when you die than how are you going to think that you will have the capability to win during your next encounter? By thinking that you died because of lower skills/stats than you are just setting yourself up to lose again . .. and will have a harder time winning fights vs those who have more stats/skills since you tell yourself that you cannot beat them.
I find it sad that so much of the community have all of these flaws in their thinking.
'Oh no I am going to have to kill mobs to be able to PVP' . .. is about the stupidest thing to think in a FFA PVP full-loot game where items break from losing durability. Everyone who plays will need an income and it will probably be mostly from PVE so the 'grind' will never end so long as you lose items. You may even have to PVE more often when you are further developed if you lose matches often because good gear is not easily replaced.
If I was a clan leader and my people were running into a 'grind wall' because they think that they need to for PVP than I would consider that my problem and not the games problems. I would log onto an alt who has lower skill to kill them and show the doubters how important practice and experience is. Same thing goes for 'boring PVE' . ... I would not think that this is the games fault as much as my own fault for not making the clan funner to be in (not the game, that is just stupid because this game is fun as hell!).
No matter how developed your character will become, you will always need to warm up before PVP or you will get killed usually. New players do not even know how to warm up . .. the last thing that they should be thinking is, "I will get good as long as I have higher skills/stats" or "omg that guy who killed me used a spell that effectively blinded me for a few seconds so that means that I need that spell to win" . .. this kind of thinking will set you up to fail and you will not enjoy the game nearly as much as the people who keep killing you.
One of the last player-cities that I lived in had a bunch of new people. I went out to quest with them and before we went I was saying how it was really stupid of us to head out without dueling eachother first to get warmed up but nobody would. So we go out to the dungeon and whille I am looking for the exit a black shield buy jumps them and kills all of them . . . so I run back and finish him off and res everyone and but before I could gank the guy, the rest of his group came down on us and we all died. So we spawn and I talk about dueling eachother and then going back . .. but none of the new players wants to duel or practice and just log out. Only one of the guys would practice with me so we did for only about 30 minutes. We did some simple excercises and at first I was killing him within just a few seconds. After only a half hour of traininig he was so warmed up and in the right mindset that it was taking me several minutes just to get his HP down a quarter of the way . .. nice story eh? I am just trying to make an example of how training makes such a huge difference and how new players are not helpless. Not one guy tried to parry the Black Shields guys and that was all that they had to do to start winning the fight because the newbs were blocking the entrance and mobs were hitting the PKs very hard in the back so they would have probably been forced to turn around because each hit by the mob was a huge chunk of health gone. New people do not know how to react. That is their main problem.
By the time that a new person farmed PVE until he has a few good sets of gear he will have enough skills/stats to kill just about anyone so long as they have enough practice (which takes months of training). Stats/skills only give a player an edge and are not going to win the match for him. The older player is allowed more mistakes and can recover easier.
And no I am not saying this just to sucker new people into the game so that I can kill them . .. c'mon now that is pretty paranoid thinking.
Edit: fixed it just for you . .. I would hate to come across as 'offensive' or 'im right your wrong' when trying to help the community see some flaws in some ways of thinking. We want the same things so should be on the same side.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
It's very rare that I do that, so congratulation. I stopped reading after that line.
"It's not me, it's them"
Is this all you can come up with? Don't you understand that it's these exact "dumbasses" who've been keeping DarkFall alive by paying subs? Is it alright if we disagree with you? Or does that make us "dumbasses"?
Players don't have to meet your criterias anyway, what they want is for Aventurine to bring the right changes to DarkFall, wether you agree or not with some of the changes, is an opinion and if so, state your case. But calling them dumbasses....you know better, Sid.
Edit: Oh I see what you did there Sid, nice edit! Too late though!
And this statement makes you clever or intelligent? Ok maybe im just spoilled that i have to work on daily buisness with a lot of very intelligent people, but i would say you proved that you are a hypocrate. You claim to be intelligent, clever and meanwhile make such dumb statments. For a lot of people would that mean that you arent so "clever or intelligent".
In your place i would be very carefull to call people dumb just so.
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Darkfall isn't particularly grindy. Just ignore the trolls who cry grind all day because they have to make up to their own failures in the game by putting the blame on mechanics rather than themselves.
I played DF very casually, mostly before the huge grind-reduction, and I got some decent skills and stats. I was also able to be of use during PvP because teamplay and personal skill does have a lot to say. (Even though the ones on the losing side always claim otherwise..)
It's your choice if you want to call other members who disagree with you "Trolls" (which is against this forum rules by the way), but at least do back up your claims that no there is no grind with valid informations.
You were playing close to launch (a bit later, grind reduction patch in April or was it in the June 2009?), which means that most of the PvP encounter you'd meet where around your "level". Sure since many clans had started to macro their way up, some were clearly stronger, but nothing that could not be handled by outnumbering your opponent if you were a new player.
Now, a single players can kill 10 new players by himself, without really trying and leave with half of his HP left, which he can heal fairly quickly. The reality here is that the gap between new players and veterans is huge, and is one of the main reason why players feel grind, because they joined DarkFall to PvP, as players hyped it. (That and lack of Specliazations are the main factor for grind.). And so far, player skills may or may not matter, gear and skills ranks matters the most at the moment. Especially with Instant Cast Rays, which will deal lots of damage within 1 second if you have a macro set (something that is very common in Darkfall).....
I played till late jan 2010. But thanks for making wong assumptions anyway. Also, that patch was late 09.
And backing up my claims.. Lol, what? Have anyone ever backed up their "THIS GAME IS GRINDY IT TAKES 8 MONTHS TO BECOME VIABLE"-claims? Those claims are complete bollocks and they know it. It doesn't take very long to max out a single skill and the stats come along with the skills naturally. Stats also have decreased gains the higher they get.
Oh, and your little 1v10 scenario doesn't mean jack, you know why? Because the 10 won't have 10 % of the gear value on them altogether. And they won't have 10 % of the fighting experience.
If 10 vets with new characters and similar gear were to meet a top-farmed character in similar gear.. They would destroy him.
First part, you said yourself that you played mostly before the grind-reduction patch, which means 2009. Next time, clarify your posts if you don't want players to make "wrong assumptions". And no, the grind reduction patch was in the April or June 2009 (can't remember which one of the 2), late 2009 was CtS Expac, which had nothing to do with skill-grind.
Aventurine put up the HP Patch because there was indeed an issue, with grind. HP Patch hasn't done much in itself though, if not to allow new players to survive 2 more hits, but that's about it.
I don't know why you can even claim that 1vs10 scenario doesn't mean jack. The exemple I used was something that happened in Hammerdale (NEW NA) while I was visiting. Most NEW are wearing Bone or Scale, and often use r40 melee weapons, so it's not entirely "bad gear", it's the common stuff. A single player comes in, wearing Bone Armor (he's a hybrid), and litteraly crush all 10 players without even trying. It's that ridiculous.
Also, the "10 vets with new characters and similar gear were to meet a top-farmed character in similar gear...They would destroy him" part....that's just wrong. Unless the vet is afk, forget about winning. If you disagree, feel free to get 10 of your vets friends to roll an new character alt and go kill a vet, and film it.
meh