Hard mmos are a myth. Timesink does not equal hard and requiring 40 other people does not equal hard. Raids are like everything else they just require you to get a little experience to know what to do. Personally I find raiding in the WoW style to be one of the most vyle creations ever in mmos. Give me small group content or at least give end game some variety instead of raid or die. Better yet give us DAoC2 minus the buffbotters.
I could careless what people believe or don't believe about Blizzards numbers. I just want to know the names of these Mythical hardcore or challenging MMOs out there that are on par or surpass WoW in terms of quality. EQ was my first MMO and I truly miss my dungeon crawling and 72 man raiding days, but there just are not any high quality MMOs on the market that offer a challenge like the older games.
Big news OP, big news. Oh wait it's not December 2008!
Well at least the pop has sustained itself, that certainly is a good sign. It may have even increased a tad.
BTW, do I know you OP?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Damn! I didn't even notice this was a "new" user post or see the familiar style of posting until you mentioned something.
I think you are right though.
Glad I'm not the only one, lol
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Originally posted by Mardy Originally posted by spades07 why do people get agitated by WoW's numbers. It simply means its popular- it doesn't mean its your cup of tea.
Yeah I kinda don't get it either. I mean over the past 11 years I've played so many games. It doesn't mean I hold allegiance to one game, I move from game to game, often times I go back to them off and on. While I'm playing WoW now, doesn't mean I'm a fanboy. In fact I'd rather be playing EQ and will continue to wish for an old school remake of EQ1/AC1/DAOC.
Yeah exactly. Its just bizarre- because you have racers on the console- you play which one you prefer- you don't care what one is top dog. The ones who do are usually pubescent little you-know-whats.
about a third of those accounts are prolly gold sellers/bot accounts anyways. Give an MMO five years or so before calling it a failure is what i'm talking about. Most of the WoW population call new releases failures w/o even giving them a chance. Oh, and my definition of a "hard" MMO is one that takes time, patience and a lot of hard work to get somewheres. Not "reach level 50 and get a free level 50 character and buy a mount in a micro transaction" type of game.
Wow USED to be hard but they have lowered soo many restrictions in the game and dumbed it down so much that it isnt anymore. Guess you can call me a hater but i felt jipped when i worked my ass off to get a lot of gold to train a mount skill, only to have them change it and practically give it away. Same goes for gear when it actually used to be hard to get drops.
Even if you make a game that plays like wow, feels like wow, as good as wow, maybe even better than wow, it'll still can't beat wow.
It's quite difficult to make a person who's already addicted to certain MMO to shift to another MMO, especially when they have made alot of friend in it.
Even if you make a game that plays like wow, feels like wow, as good as wow, maybe even better than wow, it'll still can't beat wow.
It's quite difficult to make a person who's already addicted to certain MMO to shift to another MMO, especially when they have made alot of friend in it.
For a lot of people that's true. And it's really sad too. I don't even have real friends and I drop my internet friends like a bad habit when I get tired of the repetitive bullcrap in mmos.
They said the same thing about EQ1 though. WoW can be defeated! Clones certainly won't beat it that's for sure.
After much consideration, I do not believe anyone want to 'beat' WoW. Why beat a game that is causing a market to grow; at the least, it was at one point creating growth. I believe the thinking is to leach off some of WoW popularity and make what money is possible. Certainly WoW can be defeated, but it may be by Blizzard's own hands.
To the topic.
I am sure this is good news for anyone Interesting playing WoW especially those in China, to some extent.
WoW destroyed EQ1, left it in a ditch bleeding and naked.
.
About 250,000 EQ1 subscribers left EQ1 for WoW about overnight.
.
EQ1 must've sucked hard.
Spoken like a true fanboi.
He certainly represents every chance he gets.
Don't pay it much attention, he loves to make the same comparison and statement every chance he gets, I'm already glad he didn't include a graphic chart again. I must've seen dozens upon dozens of the same posts with the same comments of him.
Typical childlike troll behaviour that you see on all kinds of forums, there's just some type of people that gets a hard on with this kind of gloating.
About the sub numbers: I don't see why they would lie about it.
But it doesn't mean that they can't paint a pretty picture, like all companies do.
In this case I'm more interested in what is NOT being said: how is the sub/player figures divided? How many in China or Korea? How many in US? How many in EU?
I'd suspect a decrease in US and EU countries as some research reports would indicate and an increase in Asian countries like China. But it's hard to know for sure since Blizzard hasn't published separate figures for a few years now, I suppose not without reason.
LMAO, I've encountered the same graphic chart myself more than a few times to say the least.
As to the rest, I would love to see WOW's sub numbers broken down from region to region. Why is it so hard to get that kind of info? Why hide when you're king of the jungle?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
about a third of those accounts are prolly gold sellers/bot accounts anyways. Give an MMO five years or so before calling it a failure is what i'm talking about. Most of the WoW population call new releases failures w/o even giving them a chance. Oh, and my definition of a "hard" MMO is one that takes time, patience and a lot of hard work to get somewheres. Not "reach level 50 and get a free level 50 character and buy a mount in a micro transaction" type of game.
Wow USED to be hard but they have lowered soo many restrictions in the game and dumbed it down so much that it isnt anymore. Guess you can call me a hater but i felt jipped when i worked my ass off to get a lot of gold to train a mount skill, only to have them change it and practically give it away. Same goes for gear when it actually used to be hard to get drops.
Wow all I see is hate, hate and more hate! When did WoW entrench itself so deep in your soul that you harbor such a putrid disdain for it and the people who still enjoy it? Take a look deep and hard within yourself and think if the millions of people who play WoW and still manage to live their lives would even bat an eyelash if you keel over after typing out your masterpiece of hatred for all things Blizzard.
I have reason to believe that it wouldn't even make it pass these very forums. But yet you feel the need to hold such a grudge for us to bare witness to like we are the epitome of all things MMO and liken us to a counsel of ruling gods over the sheep-like mortals that trample wantonly in the garden of ignorant bliss below. "If they only knew what tripe they lay with!" You scream while the rest of us simply observe your maddening stupor in hopes that it last just long enough for servers to come back up or work to be done so we can join the mortals in a session through the garden and leave you to your madness.....
Really now.....do you feel that spiteful that the game has evolved to keep up with it's 5 year population? Do you really think Blizzard is so dense that it chooses to ignore current trends in it's cash cow to simply allow it to take the same approach as past MMOs that brickwall all new growth by denying new players a chance to catch up to an older populance? Every old MMO failed this test with each expansion they released as shown in their poor growth with each release.
But Blizzard has shown that with each expansion released, it sells better than the last one thus proving that as time goes on they do two things:
Adjust the curve of player progress to encourage newer players along in it's growing level cap from each x-pac
A shitoload of expansions is not needed if you switch the focus off obtaining new levels and onto obtaining better gear.
By doing so they can have content trickle in between x-pacs and give their players a reason to get that gear from the recently released expansion.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
Originally posted by Sukiyak
It doesnt really take a PhD in Math and Economics to notice there must be something else going on when their sales drop but their player numbers are going up.
Less people are buying the game, and people are resubscribing?
I don't trust anything Blizzard or Activision says, especially with regards to sub numbers.
.
They are a publically held company. If they lie, they go to jail. Plus the shareholders would sue them into non-existence.
.
If you have proof of Blizzard lying, you could make a lot of money by selling your info to lawyers.
You trust the world to much. If you have enough $$$ you can lie all you want. You can't trust anything these days.
um... yes, no maybe?
Look, we all know that there are established companies that are publicly traded that have lied. Arthur Anderson and Enron? Fannie Mae? Adelphia?
But it doesn't usually do well to hide things from investors and regulators. Companies will do this I'm sure. And even though I've seen a considerable "stepping up" by companies and organizations in the accountability department I'm sure that somewhere down the line there will be another scandal. Always is.
But at some point we have to start accepting things at face value. One can't live their life putting their money under the mattress and living in a shack in the woods. Well, people do that but do we want to be those people?
More than likely those numbers are "reasonably" correct. Even if they aren't I think it would be hard to say that WoW is not the huge player in the arena.
And in the end, investors are coming becauese of those numbers. If the company becomes over valued there will be a correction.
I agree. It is definitely still the most popular in the US by a very large margin. My distrust is not simply of Blizzard or Activision. I still play WoW with my family so it would be hypocritical of me to blindly bash the game. I simply don't trust large conglomerate corporations in general. It would be so very easy for them to inflate thier numbers by counting subscriptions that are delinquent, frozen, banned, trial accounts, stolen accounts, 2nd or 3rd accounts, or whatever.
I really don't care whether their numbers are accurate. If they are inflated, then no other game will be able to compare numbers-wise. That, in and of itself, doesn't bother me either. I am simply tired of developers looking at WoW and trying to emulate it. There will never be a game that can compete with the numbers, so developers don't have a second or third type of game to look at and convince investors that it will be successful. That, and I'm tired of players using WoW's sub numbers as justification as to why it is a good game.
Of course I do not have proof they are lying. You don't have proof that they aren't.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Definitely can't blame people for sticking with WoW. We've gone from dozens of games in development promising gameplay features the likes of which has never been seen before, to six years of WoW and no competition.
Can't blame folks for sticking with WOW, seriously what sort of competition is there currently out there?
I found WOW fun for a couple years. However, ive never understood the mind set of those that say they hope something better will come along so they can quit WOW. Ive heard people actually say they are sick of WOW but there is nothing else. Personally ive never felt the need to be subbed to an MMO unless I enjoyed one enough to sub to it.
Edit- Hope I dont get a warning for this one too. WOW is good, WOW is great. Does that clear me?
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Definitely can't blame people for sticking with WoW. We've gone from dozens of games in development promising gameplay features the likes of which has never been seen before, to six years of WoW and no competition.
That's about to change with all the upcoming big name companies sprouting out their wares.
They were all in the planning and development stages for the last 3-5 yrs (Which was perfect for WoW to keep the top of the hill). We'll see thou.
I am playing WoW and will play Cata, but the new big name kids on the block are something to keep our eyes on.
GW2 is the one I am watching closely. Rift also looks good.
The changes in StarCraft 2 are not holding very well, unless Blizzard learns and actually has control of their game, it's only a matter of time before World of Warcraft does something stupid enough to piss off a bunch of subs.
Originally posted by Katilla Originally posted by ryuga81
Originally posted by Rockgod99
What harder mmos? sandbox games? those arent harder just require a much larger time investment and are dependent on group play. "Harder MMOs" are a joke. The cake is a lie.
There are absolutely no MMOs where a dumb (or particularly unlucky) decision will set you back a month or even more. These are not the MMOs you are looking for. try losing a really expensive ship in Eve online that took you months to get and train to buy really expensive add ons for, only to lose it because of a stupid mistake and have to start all over again and then we'll talk.
Katilla, what you said is just the same as what Ryuga81 said. Ryuga just said it in an amusing way.
You entirely missed the point, and sounded a little rude doing it.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
The burden of proof lies for those who seek to pass judgement. Not for those that are not
Hehe, this is not court. I do not have to prove what I believe to you or anyone else. In my opinion, they have every reason in the world to lie and inflate thier numbers. /hugs
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Comments
Hard mmos are a myth. Timesink does not equal hard and requiring 40 other people does not equal hard. Raids are like everything else they just require you to get a little experience to know what to do. Personally I find raiding in the WoW style to be one of the most vyle creations ever in mmos. Give me small group content or at least give end game some variety instead of raid or die. Better yet give us DAoC2 minus the buffbotters.
Hah, you read too many Tom Clancy novels.
I could careless what people believe or don't believe about Blizzards numbers. I just want to know the names of these Mythical hardcore or challenging MMOs out there that are on par or surpass WoW in terms of quality. EQ was my first MMO and I truly miss my dungeon crawling and 72 man raiding days, but there just are not any high quality MMOs on the market that offer a challenge like the older games.
If one of these hardcore mmorpgs can even compete with WoW I will surely play it. I won't be holding my breath though.
Big news OP, big news. Oh wait it's not December 2008!
Well at least the pop has sustained itself, that certainly is a good sign. It may have even increased a tad.
BTW, do I know you OP?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Damn! I didn't even notice this was a "new" user post or see the familiar style of posting until you mentioned something.
I think you are right though.
Glad I'm not the only one, lol
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Yeah exactly. Its just bizarre- because you have racers on the console- you play which one you prefer- you don't care what one is top dog. The ones who do are usually pubescent little you-know-whats.
about a third of those accounts are prolly gold sellers/bot accounts anyways. Give an MMO five years or so before calling it a failure is what i'm talking about. Most of the WoW population call new releases failures w/o even giving them a chance. Oh, and my definition of a "hard" MMO is one that takes time, patience and a lot of hard work to get somewheres. Not "reach level 50 and get a free level 50 character and buy a mount in a micro transaction" type of game.
Wow USED to be hard but they have lowered soo many restrictions in the game and dumbed it down so much that it isnt anymore. Guess you can call me a hater but i felt jipped when i worked my ass off to get a lot of gold to train a mount skill, only to have them change it and practically give it away. Same goes for gear when it actually used to be hard to get drops.
Even if you make a game that plays like wow, feels like wow, as good as wow, maybe even better than wow, it'll still can't beat wow.
It's quite difficult to make a person who's already addicted to certain MMO to shift to another MMO, especially when they have made alot of friend in it.
For a lot of people that's true. And it's really sad too. I don't even have real friends and I drop my internet friends like a bad habit when I get tired of the repetitive bullcrap in mmos.
They said the same thing about EQ1 though. WoW can be defeated! Clones certainly won't beat it that's for sure.
After much consideration, I do not believe anyone want to 'beat' WoW. Why beat a game that is causing a market to grow; at the least, it was at one point creating growth. I believe the thinking is to leach off some of WoW popularity and make what money is possible. Certainly WoW can be defeated, but it may be by Blizzard's own hands.
To the topic.
I am sure this is good news for anyone Interesting playing WoW especially those in China, to some extent.
LMAO, I've encountered the same graphic chart myself more than a few times to say the least.
As to the rest, I would love to see WOW's sub numbers broken down from region to region. Why is it so hard to get that kind of info? Why hide when you're king of the jungle?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Wow all I see is hate, hate and more hate! When did WoW entrench itself so deep in your soul that you harbor such a putrid disdain for it and the people who still enjoy it? Take a look deep and hard within yourself and think if the millions of people who play WoW and still manage to live their lives would even bat an eyelash if you keel over after typing out your masterpiece of hatred for all things Blizzard.
I have reason to believe that it wouldn't even make it pass these very forums. But yet you feel the need to hold such a grudge for us to bare witness to like we are the epitome of all things MMO and liken us to a counsel of ruling gods over the sheep-like mortals that trample wantonly in the garden of ignorant bliss below. "If they only knew what tripe they lay with!" You scream while the rest of us simply observe your maddening stupor in hopes that it last just long enough for servers to come back up or work to be done so we can join the mortals in a session through the garden and leave you to your madness.....
Really now.....do you feel that spiteful that the game has evolved to keep up with it's 5 year population? Do you really think Blizzard is so dense that it chooses to ignore current trends in it's cash cow to simply allow it to take the same approach as past MMOs that brickwall all new growth by denying new players a chance to catch up to an older populance? Every old MMO failed this test with each expansion they released as shown in their poor growth with each release.
But Blizzard has shown that with each expansion released, it sells better than the last one thus proving that as time goes on they do two things:
Adjust the curve of player progress to encourage newer players along in it's growing level cap from each x-pac
A shitoload of expansions is not needed if you switch the focus off obtaining new levels and onto obtaining better gear.
By doing so they can have content trickle in between x-pacs and give their players a reason to get that gear from the recently released expansion.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Less people are buying the game, and people are resubscribing?
I agree. It is definitely still the most popular in the US by a very large margin. My distrust is not simply of Blizzard or Activision. I still play WoW with my family so it would be hypocritical of me to blindly bash the game. I simply don't trust large conglomerate corporations in general. It would be so very easy for them to inflate thier numbers by counting subscriptions that are delinquent, frozen, banned, trial accounts, stolen accounts, 2nd or 3rd accounts, or whatever.
I really don't care whether their numbers are accurate. If they are inflated, then no other game will be able to compare numbers-wise. That, in and of itself, doesn't bother me either. I am simply tired of developers looking at WoW and trying to emulate it. There will never be a game that can compete with the numbers, so developers don't have a second or third type of game to look at and convince investors that it will be successful. That, and I'm tired of players using WoW's sub numbers as justification as to why it is a good game.
Of course I do not have proof they are lying. You don't have proof that they aren't.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Can't blame folks for sticking with WOW, seriously what sort of competition is there currently out there?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Definitely can't blame people for sticking with WoW. We've gone from dozens of games in development promising gameplay features the likes of which has never been seen before, to six years of WoW and no competition.
I found WOW fun for a couple years. However, ive never understood the mind set of those that say they hope something better will come along so they can quit WOW. Ive heard people actually say they are sick of WOW but there is nothing else. Personally ive never felt the need to be subbed to an MMO unless I enjoyed one enough to sub to it.
Edit- Hope I dont get a warning for this one too. WOW is good, WOW is great. Does that clear me?
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
That's about to change with all the upcoming big name companies sprouting out their wares.
They were all in the planning and development stages for the last 3-5 yrs (Which was perfect for WoW to keep the top of the hill). We'll see thou.
I am playing WoW and will play Cata, but the new big name kids on the block are something to keep our eyes on.
GW2 is the one I am watching closely. Rift also looks good.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
I'm gonna derail this topic.
Bobby Kotick is gonna drive Blizzard into the mother fucking ground.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128252
The changes in StarCraft 2 are not holding very well, unless Blizzard learns and actually has control of their game, it's only a matter of time before World of Warcraft does something stupid enough to piss off a bunch of subs.
There are absolutely no MMOs where a dumb (or particularly unlucky) decision will set you back a month or even more.
These are not the MMOs you are looking for.
try losing a really expensive ship in Eve online that took you months to get and train to buy really expensive add ons for, only to lose it because of a stupid mistake and have to start all over again and then we'll talk.
Katilla, what you said is just the same as what Ryuga81 said. Ryuga just said it in an amusing way.
You entirely missed the point, and sounded a little rude doing it.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Hehe, this is not court. I do not have to prove what I believe to you or anyone else. In my opinion, they have every reason in the world to lie and inflate thier numbers. /hugs
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.