As to the rest, I would love to see WOW's sub numbers broken down from region to region. Why is it so hard to get that kind of info? Why hide when you're king of the jungle?
"Asia is the biggest market at the moment, with more than 5.5 million players, as compared to North America's 2.5 million and 2 million subscribers in Europe."
That is from the 10 million player announcement.
Keep in mind most companies won't even hint at how many subscribers they have. Boy I sure would love to see some of those numbers.
Thanks Daffid, it would be interesting to see how much has changed since the announcement. But I can easily understand why they don't keep those numbers publicly updated.
And oh no, here comes McDonald's again.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
how do people still play the game after almost 6 years now.?
Its a great game but damn if there are people who are still playing after 6 years, what keeps you sticking around. The game hasn't changed its basic mechanics since the beginning.
Originally posted by Daffid011 I bet in 10 years we look back and several games with wow like numbers and say, damn we were wrong.
. I doubt it. . When WoW launched in Nov 2004, all the competition was made up of poorly designed games like EQ1, SWG and DAoC. . When SWTOR launches, it will be WoW with light sabres and a story. That's not enough to take much market away. . When WoW launched, it was hugely better than the competitors. SWTOR is about the same as WoW so it won't have as much impact.
I bet in 10 years we look back and several games with wow like numbers and say, damn we were wrong.
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I doubt it.
.
When WoW launched in Nov 2004, all the competition was made up of poorly designed games like EQ1, SWG and DAoC.
.
When SWTOR launches, it will be WoW with light sabres and a story. That's not enough to take much market away.
.
When WoW launched, it was hugely better than the competitors. SWTOR is about the same as WoW so it won't have as much impact.
All true, but I suspect the entire mmo market will continue to grow over the years and new games will figure out ways to attract people. I wasn't specifically talking about SWTOR.
Someone will figure out how to draw in the social network players and online gaming will be second nature to most people in ten years. Ten years ago I don't think anyone would have predicted some little flash game would have 80+ million players or saw hundreds of millions on social networks.
Of course I could be wrong and the market could stagnate due to companies rehashing the same worn out gameplay for the next ten years.
Cataclysm launch in December could really hurt WoW long-term. FF XIV will launch several months before and SWTOR several after. Given there will only be a couple of months of actual new game in WoW expansion you are talking an expansion that you can happily play from December to February and then forget about this cash cow quite happily until the next generation Blizzard MMO hits in 2012.
Why do people assume that FFXIV and WoW are going to have any effect on each other at all? As far as I can tell their player bases don't overlap in any way.
FFXI was/is popular in Japan and nowhere else. WoW is popular in a lot of countries, but Blizzard never even translated WoW into Japanese or launched servers there (to the best of my knowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong).
So how much impact are these two going to have on each other, if they don't even compete in the same markets?
Why do people assume that FFXIV and WoW are going to have any effect on each other at all? As far as I can tell their player bases don't overlap in any way.
FFXI was/is popular in Japan and nowhere else. WoW is popular in a lot of countries, but Blizzard never even translated WoW into Japanese or launched servers there (to the best of my knowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong).
So how much impact are these two going to have on each other, if they don't even compete in the same markets?
Final Fantasy XI is very popular in the west, not just in Japan. If it wasn't, Final Fantasy XIV wouldn't have been announced at E3.
Can't blame folks for sticking with WOW, seriously what sort of competition is there currently out there?
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You surprised me.
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But that's true. SWTOR might compete. But with all the competition nowadays, nothing will ever hit WoW numbers.
Hey, just because I don't care for WOW (anymore) doesn't mean I can't appreciate the game for what it is, especially when compared to other games which are no where near its equal
I'm an EVE fan its true, and its certainly an acquired taste thats not for everyone, but I'd never go so far to suggest that its a better game over all than WOW.
It's just better for me and the playstyle I prefer.
If Blizzard made a sandbox style game I'd be one of the first to sign up.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
the only reason people say that everything seems like WoW is because they havent played games that came out before it that WoW took things from.
Wow, just like almost every other mmo, is built on the same foundation as the diku mud/eq framework. Most games pre-wow took those elements and blended them in with their own game style to produce a game that felt very much different than what came before it. Even though Wow is heavily based on EQ, it offers an experience that feels completely distinct from EQ.
Many moderns games do not offer that same distinctive feeling. There are many games that borrow heavily from warcrafts gameplay and don't really blend in their own sense of style and play and they end up feeling just like wow. In contrast those same games don't feel like games that came before wow.
So people are being accurate when they say companies are trying to emulate wow, even though wow took design notes from many previous mmos.
There is a reason people are not complaining about all the EQ or DAOC clones, because almost no game emulates them. See the difference?
the only reason people say that everything seems like WoW is because they havent played games that came out before it that WoW took things from.
Wow, just like almost every other mmo, is built on the same foundation as the diku mud/eq framework. Most games pre-wow took those elements and blended them in with their own game style to produce a game that felt very much different than what came before it. Even though Wow is heavily based on EQ, it offers an experience that feels completely distinct from EQ.
Many moderns games do not offer that same distinctive feeling. There are many games that borrow heavily from warcrafts gameplay and don't really blend in their own sense of style and play and they end up feeling just like wow. In contrast those same games don't feel like games that came before wow.
So people are being accurate when they say companies are trying to emulate wow, even though wow took design notes from many previous mmos.
There is a reason people are not complaining about all the EQ or DAOC clones, because almost no game emulates them. See the difference?
so i do not get another warning for "trolling" on this thread i will simply state that i dissagree with your statement. A lot of games do have the same elements, but if you do some research as to the actual gameplay you will find that the majority of them do add at least one "new" element. for an example AoC with the strange directional based attacks, or Aion with the flight thing. I could go on but im feeling lazy and dont want my boss to catch me posting at work about it :P
the only reason people say that everything seems like WoW is because they havent played games that came out before it that WoW took things from.
Wow, just like almost every other mmo, is built on the same foundation as the diku mud/eq framework. Most games pre-wow took those elements and blended them in with their own game style to produce a game that felt very much different than what came before it. Even though Wow is heavily based on EQ, it offers an experience that feels completely distinct from EQ.
Many moderns games do not offer that same distinctive feeling. There are many games that borrow heavily from warcrafts gameplay and don't really blend in their own sense of style and play and they end up feeling just like wow. In contrast those same games don't feel like games that came before wow.
So people are being accurate when they say companies are trying to emulate wow, even though wow took design notes from many previous mmos.
There is a reason people are not complaining about all the EQ or DAOC clones, because almost no game emulates them. See the difference?
Nice post man, seriously. You have an amazing grasp on the true history of the genre.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
so i do not get another warning for "trolling" on this thread i will simply state that i dissagree with your statement. A lot of games do have the same elements, but if you do some research as to the actual gameplay you will find that the majority of them do add at least one "new" element. for an example AoC with the strange directional based attacks, or Aion with the flight thing. I could go on but im feeling lazy and dont want my boss to catch me posting at work about it :P
Oh, I agree with you 100% and don't think you are trolling. My Aion experience is very limited, but AoC felt different enough than most other games on the market. It was just about having 1 new element either. Much of the game felt different to me at least and I didn't feel like I was playing a game that I had just left.
My point was that many games don't do that, not all. There are a lot of games that just have a been there done that feeling almost immediately. Likewise there are a lot of other games that do seperate from the herd, but that doesn't mean there are not games that have no soul of their own.
It really isn't just about adding 1 new feature and is more about using what is available and taking ownership of it in a way that feels new.
so i do not get another warning for "trolling" on this thread i will simply state that i dissagree with your statement. A lot of games do have the same elements, but if you do some research as to the actual gameplay you will find that the majority of them do add at least one "new" element. for an example AoC with the strange directional based attacks, or Aion with the flight thing. I could go on but im feeling lazy and dont want my boss to catch me posting at work about it :P
Oh, I agree with you 100% and don't think you are trolling. My Aion experience is very limited, but AoC felt different enough than most other games on the market. It was just about having 1 new element either. Much of the game felt different to me at least and I didn't feel like I was playing a game that I had just left.
My point was that many games don't do that, not all. There are a lot of games that just have a been there done that feeling almost immediately. Likewise there are a lot of other games that do seperate from the herd, but that doesn't mean there are not games that have no soul of their own.
It really isn't just about adding 1 new feature and is more about using what is available and taking ownership of it in a way that feels new.
i agree with you on this, which is why i am looking forward to TOR. I will actually get involved with the storyline instead of clicking accept for every quest cause i dont want to read a wall of text that tells me why im killing 50 rats that eat this guys garden :P
I'm with you on that. The fetch/kill quest system felt really new and different 6 years ago, but it is time for another change. The current questing system can stick around for busy work or casual soloing, but something else needs to takes its place as a primary driver.
Hopefully TOR does some of that, but I'm not really holding my breath yeat. Much of the beta leaks so far look to be nothing more than kill/fetch quests in a star wars universe, but I have not seen many of the story line missions yet. Maybe those will turn out better.
I'm with you on that. The fetch/kill quest system felt really new and different 6 years ago, but it is time for another change. The current questing system can stick around for busy work or casual soloing, but something else needs to takes its place as a primary driver.
Hopefully TOR does some of that, but I'm not really holding my breath yeat. Much of the beta leaks so far look to be nothing more than kill/fetch quests in a star wars universe, but I have not seen many of the story line missions yet. Maybe those will turn out better.
The fetch/kill quest sytem is only one of many ways to play these days. A lot more options are already in place. Leveling by doing PvP or dungeon crawling. Those two don't need a single quest to level. Other means of advancing could be introduced or are only half implemented.
I find the most challeging, a combo of all the above, like PvP quests with a PvE theme we saw in Wotlk, like crafting or harvesting with PvP goals. level only on crafting goods etc...
Lots of people play for achievements which is even independant of gear collecting or tradtional progression in levels.
The core of Wow will always be combat though. It would be silly to change the formula and so another Blizzard MMO could experiment with more non combat ways to advance.
In the mean time Blizzard controls and adapts the field accordingly, picking up some good thoughts on the way (like PvP leveling or join PvP from anywhere) and stimulate Guild play to counter the X-server mechanics (dungeon crawling) that simply are needed to keep the pops available all the time no matter what level.
Next step would be to kill off the experience gains for free (no need to ask 10 Gold each time to stop/start experience). It takes the game to the player's choice of playing whatever he wants (like stay at 60 for 6 months).
All these alternative things are already in place, but Blizzard hardly promotes them. I expect them to be in the core design in their next game. People crying for sandboxes should first play with the non standard available tools and then realise it is the player not the designer that lacks imagination.(just like a good or bad dungeon master in pen & paper D&D game).
Definitely can't blame people for sticking with WoW. We've gone from dozens of games in development promising gameplay features the likes of which has never been seen before, to six years of WoW and no competition.
That's about to change with all the upcoming big name companies sprouting out their wares.
They were all in the planning and development stages for the last 3-5 yrs (Which was perfect for WoW to keep the top of the hill). We'll see thou.
I am playing WoW and will play Cata, but the new big name kids on the block are something to keep our eyes on.
GW2 is the one I am watching closely. Rift also looks good.
I remember a few years ago people were talking about Warhammer and AOC. Both were done by companies with experience in the genre, both had huge budgets.
GW2 will be an afterthought and not get any signifant sub numbers compared to WOW. Bioware has a shot at being the next WOW though... but really, that game is even less sandboxy then WOW and will be very slow (lots of storytelling). it will be done well, but I am not sure how big it will be because of the emphasis on RP.
Definitely can't blame people for sticking with WoW. We've gone from dozens of games in development promising gameplay features the likes of which has never been seen before, to six years of WoW and no competition.
That's about to change with all the upcoming big name companies sprouting out their wares.
They were all in the planning and development stages for the last 3-5 yrs (Which was perfect for WoW to keep the top of the hill). We'll see thou.
I am playing WoW and will play Cata, but the new big name kids on the block are something to keep our eyes on.
GW2 is the one I am watching closely. Rift also looks good.
GW2 will be an afterthought and not get any signifant sub numbers compared to WOW.
You say that with an awfully strong conviction for someone who didn't even took the time to find out that GW2 doesn't even need a subscription.
Definitely can't blame people for sticking with WoW. We've gone from dozens of games in development promising gameplay features the likes of which has never been seen before, to six years of WoW and no competition.
That's about to change with all the upcoming big name companies sprouting out their wares.
They were all in the planning and development stages for the last 3-5 yrs (Which was perfect for WoW to keep the top of the hill). We'll see thou.
I am playing WoW and will play Cata, but the new big name kids on the block are something to keep our eyes on.
GW2 is the one I am watching closely. Rift also looks good.
I remember a few years ago people were talking about Warhammer and AOC. Both were done by companies with experience in the genre, both had huge budgets.
GW2 will be an afterthought and not get any signifant sub numbers compared to WOW. Bioware has a shot at being the next WOW though... but really, that game is even less sandboxy then WOW and will be very slow (lots of storytelling). it will be done well, but I am not sure how big it will be because of the emphasis on RP.
hard to have sub numbers when there is no subscription
Definitely can't blame people for sticking with WoW. We've gone from dozens of games in development promising gameplay features the likes of which has never been seen before, to six years of WoW and no competition.
That's about to change with all the upcoming big name companies sprouting out their wares.
They were all in the planning and development stages for the last 3-5 yrs (Which was perfect for WoW to keep the top of the hill). We'll see thou.
I am playing WoW and will play Cata, but the new big name kids on the block are something to keep our eyes on.
GW2 is the one I am watching closely. Rift also looks good.
GW2 will be an afterthought and not get any signifant sub numbers compared to WOW.
You say that with an awfully strong conviction for someone who didn't even took the time to find out that GW2 doesn't even need a subscription.
Sorry, players. But to say it will do anything compared to WOW or have any impact at all on WOW is just silly. it will come and go, some people will play it, but nothing that will take players away from WOW.
Any game made by a 'real' company is going to get 200,000 boxes sold just because of marketing. AOC and Warhammer had close to a million boxes sold, but subscribers are not going to leave WOW for something like GW.
Comments
LINK
"Asia is the biggest market at the moment, with more than 5.5 million players, as compared to North America's 2.5 million and 2 million subscribers in Europe."
That is from the 10 million player announcement.
Keep in mind most companies won't even hint at how many subscribers they have. Boy I sure would love to see some of those numbers.
You surprised me.
.
But that's true. SWTOR might compete. But with all the competition nowadays, nothing will ever hit WoW numbers.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
I bet in 10 years we look back and several games with wow like numbers and say, damn we were wrong.
Yes,, McDonalds's still has served billions and billions.. Which means what?
Thanks Daffid, it would be interesting to see how much has changed since the announcement. But I can easily understand why they don't keep those numbers publicly updated.
And oh no, here comes McDonald's again.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
how do people still play the game after almost 6 years now.?
Its a great game but damn if there are people who are still playing after 6 years, what keeps you sticking around. The game hasn't changed its basic mechanics since the beginning.
I doubt it.
.
When WoW launched in Nov 2004, all the competition was made up of poorly designed games like EQ1, SWG and DAoC.
.
When SWTOR launches, it will be WoW with light sabres and a story. That's not enough to take much market away.
.
When WoW launched, it was hugely better than the competitors. SWTOR is about the same as WoW so it won't have as much impact.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
All true, but I suspect the entire mmo market will continue to grow over the years and new games will figure out ways to attract people. I wasn't specifically talking about SWTOR.
Someone will figure out how to draw in the social network players and online gaming will be second nature to most people in ten years. Ten years ago I don't think anyone would have predicted some little flash game would have 80+ million players or saw hundreds of millions on social networks.
Of course I could be wrong and the market could stagnate due to companies rehashing the same worn out gameplay for the next ten years.
You have to "earn" those billions every month ...There are a zillion other fast food chains to choose from.
How long till WoTLK hit china?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Why do people assume that FFXIV and WoW are going to have any effect on each other at all? As far as I can tell their player bases don't overlap in any way.
FFXI was/is popular in Japan and nowhere else. WoW is popular in a lot of countries, but Blizzard never even translated WoW into Japanese or launched servers there (to the best of my knowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong).
So how much impact are these two going to have on each other, if they don't even compete in the same markets?
Final Fantasy XI is very popular in the west, not just in Japan. If it wasn't, Final Fantasy XIV wouldn't have been announced at E3.
Hey, just because I don't care for WOW (anymore) doesn't mean I can't appreciate the game for what it is, especially when compared to other games which are no where near its equal
I'm an EVE fan its true, and its certainly an acquired taste thats not for everyone, but I'd never go so far to suggest that its a better game over all than WOW.
It's just better for me and the playstyle I prefer.
If Blizzard made a sandbox style game I'd be one of the first to sign up.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wow, just like almost every other mmo, is built on the same foundation as the diku mud/eq framework. Most games pre-wow took those elements and blended them in with their own game style to produce a game that felt very much different than what came before it. Even though Wow is heavily based on EQ, it offers an experience that feels completely distinct from EQ.
Many moderns games do not offer that same distinctive feeling. There are many games that borrow heavily from warcrafts gameplay and don't really blend in their own sense of style and play and they end up feeling just like wow. In contrast those same games don't feel like games that came before wow.
So people are being accurate when they say companies are trying to emulate wow, even though wow took design notes from many previous mmos.
There is a reason people are not complaining about all the EQ or DAOC clones, because almost no game emulates them. See the difference?
so i do not get another warning for "trolling" on this thread i will simply state that i dissagree with your statement. A lot of games do have the same elements, but if you do some research as to the actual gameplay you will find that the majority of them do add at least one "new" element. for an example AoC with the strange directional based attacks, or Aion with the flight thing. I could go on but im feeling lazy and dont want my boss to catch me posting at work about it :P
Nice post man, seriously. You have an amazing grasp on the true history of the genre.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Oh, I agree with you 100% and don't think you are trolling. My Aion experience is very limited, but AoC felt different enough than most other games on the market. It was just about having 1 new element either. Much of the game felt different to me at least and I didn't feel like I was playing a game that I had just left.
My point was that many games don't do that, not all. There are a lot of games that just have a been there done that feeling almost immediately. Likewise there are a lot of other games that do seperate from the herd, but that doesn't mean there are not games that have no soul of their own.
It really isn't just about adding 1 new feature and is more about using what is available and taking ownership of it in a way that feels new.
i agree with you on this, which is why i am looking forward to TOR. I will actually get involved with the storyline instead of clicking accept for every quest cause i dont want to read a wall of text that tells me why im killing 50 rats that eat this guys garden :P
I'm with you on that. The fetch/kill quest system felt really new and different 6 years ago, but it is time for another change. The current questing system can stick around for busy work or casual soloing, but something else needs to takes its place as a primary driver.
Hopefully TOR does some of that, but I'm not really holding my breath yeat. Much of the beta leaks so far look to be nothing more than kill/fetch quests in a star wars universe, but I have not seen many of the story line missions yet. Maybe those will turn out better.
The fetch/kill quest sytem is only one of many ways to play these days. A lot more options are already in place. Leveling by doing PvP or dungeon crawling. Those two don't need a single quest to level. Other means of advancing could be introduced or are only half implemented.
I find the most challeging, a combo of all the above, like PvP quests with a PvE theme we saw in Wotlk, like crafting or harvesting with PvP goals. level only on crafting goods etc...
Lots of people play for achievements which is even independant of gear collecting or tradtional progression in levels.
The core of Wow will always be combat though. It would be silly to change the formula and so another Blizzard MMO could experiment with more non combat ways to advance.
In the mean time Blizzard controls and adapts the field accordingly, picking up some good thoughts on the way (like PvP leveling or join PvP from anywhere) and stimulate Guild play to counter the X-server mechanics (dungeon crawling) that simply are needed to keep the pops available all the time no matter what level.
Next step would be to kill off the experience gains for free (no need to ask 10 Gold each time to stop/start experience). It takes the game to the player's choice of playing whatever he wants (like stay at 60 for 6 months).
All these alternative things are already in place, but Blizzard hardly promotes them. I expect them to be in the core design in their next game. People crying for sandboxes should first play with the non standard available tools and then realise it is the player not the designer that lacks imagination.(just like a good or bad dungeon master in pen & paper D&D game).
I remember a few years ago people were talking about Warhammer and AOC. Both were done by companies with experience in the genre, both had huge budgets.
GW2 will be an afterthought and not get any signifant sub numbers compared to WOW. Bioware has a shot at being the next WOW though... but really, that game is even less sandboxy then WOW and will be very slow (lots of storytelling). it will be done well, but I am not sure how big it will be because of the emphasis on RP.
You say that with an awfully strong conviction for someone who didn't even took the time to find out that GW2 doesn't even need a subscription.
hard to have sub numbers when there is no subscription
Sorry, players. But to say it will do anything compared to WOW or have any impact at all on WOW is just silly. it will come and go, some people will play it, but nothing that will take players away from WOW.
Any game made by a 'real' company is going to get 200,000 boxes sold just because of marketing. AOC and Warhammer had close to a million boxes sold, but subscribers are not going to leave WOW for something like GW.