Wow ppl! Hold off on the linching!!! My bad! I've just gone through several months of playing bad mmo's! I kinda got sucked into the...U have to pay to be good perspective! Don't get to upset with me... ....I was misinformed from what you folks have told me...
I'm sorry if I sounded aggressive? I didn't think I did when I wrote it... a little snarky maybe... And I get your position, I've been trying to find an F2P game where the item mall isn't totally screwed up, but thanks to companies like gPotato no such game exists that I know of. At least not any game worth playing. Well, LOTRO is kind of fun, but I want something else.
Originally posted by tepthtanis
Or was I? Now I'm getting the silent treatment after being pelted from every side...
I think we all live in different timezones, is all.
<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>
Wow ppl! Hold off on the linching!!! My bad! I've just gone through several months of playing bad mmo's! I kinda got sucked into the...U have to pay to be good perspective! Don't get to upset with me... ....I was misinformed from what you folks have told me...
I'm sorry if I sounded aggressive? I didn't think I did when I wrote it... a little snarky maybe... And I get your position, I've been trying to find an F2P game where the item mall isn't totally screwed up, but thanks to companies like gPotato no such game exists that I know of. At least not any game worth playing. Well, LOTRO is kind of fun, but I want something else.
Originally posted by tepthtanis
Or was I? Now I'm getting the silent treatment after being pelted from every side...
I think we all live in different timezones, is all.
No problems Kaerigan. We all have different time zones. I wasn't upset, I think we all are just trying to figure out this game. Perhaps I didn't read enough into it which makes it all my bad.
I'm just hoping that GW2 does the WOW thing and have customers pay the enitial fee for the game and a monthly fee. To me, that is the most comfortable way to handle players.
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
tepthtanis: I don't understand that logic. Why is that kind of system better? I don't see any problems with the game being B2P and then having a vanity item mall. Do you like paying a monthly subscription fee?
<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>
tepthtanis: I don't understand that logic. Why is that kind of system better? I don't see any problems with the game being B2P and then having a vanity item mall. Do you like paying a monthly subscription fee?
I could've sworn I responded to this message already Kaerigan. Perhaps I hit the wrong button or I hit to close to home for someone.
My point is Kaerigan is that the company that is putting out GW2 is out to make money. Whether they put out a good product or not is up to you and I and potentionaly millions of other consumers. The GW2 braintrust has decided that a monthly fee isn't lucrative enough and decided to copy the FTP mmorpg's and have the "pay extra" to be better than everyone else philosophy...
You claim that it is a "pay to look better than everyone else" philosophy...but in reality...It's "The more cash you hand over the better you get." philosophy... If you handed me 5 bucks right now Kaerigan plus the price of the game I'm offering you and "Greg" just payed the price of the game...I'm liking you more. Here's another example...
If some well dressed "Payed an extra 5 dollars to look good prancingpretty"...Got his butt handed to him by you Kaerigan(and You simply paid the original price of the game)...Your toon is looking to get nerfed. Pay scales in "any" game is a huge mistake!!!
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
tepthtanis: I don't understand that logic. Why is that kind of system better? I don't see any problems with the game being B2P and then having a vanity item mall. Do you like paying a monthly subscription fee?
I could've sworn I responded to this message already Kaerigan. Perhaps I hit the wrong button or I hit to close to home for someone.
My point is Kaerigan is that the company that is putting out GW2 is out to make money. Whether they put out a good product or not is up to you and I and potentionaly millions of other consumers. The GW2 braintrust has decided that a monthly fee isn't lucrative enough and decided to copy the FTP mmorpg's and have the "pay extra" to be better than everyone else philosophy...
You claim that it is a "pay to look better than everyone else" philosophy...but in reality...It's "The more cash you hand over the better you get." philosophy... If you handed me 5 bucks right now Kaerigan plus the price of the game I'm offering you and "Greg" just payed the price of the game...I'm liking you more. Here's another example...
If some well dressed "Payed an extra 5 dollars to look good prancingpretty"...Got his butt handed to him by you Kaerigan(and You simply paid the original price of the game)...Your toon is looking to get nerfed. Pay scales in "any" game is a huge mistake!!!
Wow. Just wow. There's literally NOTHING that points to this being the case. As I said, the developers have said that they're MAYBE planning to implement an item mall, and if they do, it will only contain COSMETIC items. Now tell me, in what world would my character get nerfed for pwning someone just because he had fancier clothing? It's not like the other player would expect to be better just because he has put out money on his clothing. He decided to pay money in order to look cool, not in order to be better.
Besides, WoW is P2P but it has a vanity item store and I'm hella sure that people aren't getting nerfed left and right just because somebody purchased "Lil' Ragnaros" or the "Celestial Steed" and still got beaten by someone with better skills.
<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>
tepthtanis: I don't understand that logic. Why is that kind of system better? I don't see any problems with the game being B2P and then having a vanity item mall. Do you like paying a monthly subscription fee?
I could've sworn I responded to this message already Kaerigan. Perhaps I hit the wrong button or I hit to close to home for someone.
My point is Kaerigan is that the company that is putting out GW2 is out to make money. Whether they put out a good product or not is up to you and I and potentionaly millions of other consumers. The GW2 braintrust has decided that a monthly fee isn't lucrative enough and decided to copy the FTP mmorpg's and have the "pay extra" to be better than everyone else philosophy...
You claim that it is a "pay to look better than everyone else" philosophy...but in reality...It's "The more cash you hand over the better you get." philosophy... If you handed me 5 bucks right now Kaerigan plus the price of the game I'm offering you and "Greg" just payed the price of the game...I'm liking you more. Here's another example...
If some well dressed "Payed an extra 5 dollars to look good prancingpretty"...Got his butt handed to him by you Kaerigan(and You simply paid the original price of the game)...Your toon is looking to get nerfed. Pay scales in "any" game is a huge mistake!!!
Wow. Just wow. There's literally NOTHING that points to this being the case. As I said, the developers have said that they're MAYBE planning to implement an item mall, and if they do, it will only contain COSMETIC items. Now tell me, in what world would my character get nerfed for pwning someone just because he had fancier clothing? It's not like the other player would expect to be better just because he has put out money on his clothing. He decided to pay money in order to look cool, not in order to be better.
Besides, WoW is P2P but it has a vanity item store and I'm hella sure that people aren't getting nerfed left and right just because somebody purchased "Lil' Ragnaros" or the "Celestial Steed" and still got beaten by someone with better skills.
I looked up everything I could on GW2 last night and I "never" found anything that said there would be a "vanity mall" for GW2. Arena simply said that you pay the initial payment for the game and that is it.
Don't quote wow please...they have made their billions and if they are trying to extract a few extra dollars from the young teens that are playing that game now by giving them my little ponies and transformers...(at a premium) More power to them.
My point is...Arena "could" charge 15$ a month and rest everyones minds.(Such as mine) And ppl would pay gladly! "if!" GW2 is as good a product as GW.
That being said... the ppl that ultimately pay "more" have the most say. If GW2 wants a bunch of young teen girls paying to play dress up...then the young teen girls have the power.(Hence> a vanity mall :P) Get my drift?
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
tepthtanis: I'd link you the interview in which they talked about the item shop but I cannot remember where I heard it. I'm pretty sure it was Colin Johanson (one of the lead designers, I think) and he just briefly mentioned it in a panel interview of some sort. I know I'm not imagining things, this fella here mentions it as well, although I don't think we heard it from the same source. Also, I finally found a link to the Guild Wars cash shop. Guild Wars 2 will follow the same model as Guild Wars 1. Look at what you can buy in the store. Only vanity and convenience items as far as I can understand.
And do you really think that ArenaNet works like American politics? Nothing ArenaNet has done (as far as I know!) would indicate that the players with the most money to waste would "have the power".
<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>
I'm just very upset that GW2 would have any kind of shop at this point Kaerigan? I can understand the pay to play concept but when a game starts adding the little extras...they are trying to make up for some deficiency...I don't wan't to pay to look better...I don't wan't to pay to be better than everyone else! I just want a game to pay for that I can make friends, do quests, and have a worry free time playing! If GW2 feels that they have to have a shop this early in developement then I'm going to look elsewhere for my next Mmorpg.
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
I'm just very upset that GW2 would have any kind of shop at this point Kaerigan? I can understand the pay to play concept but when a game starts adding the little extras...they are trying to make up for some deficiency...I don't wan't to pay to look better...I don't wan't to pay to be better than everyone else! I just want a game to pay for that I can make friends, do quests, and have a worry free time playing! If GW2 feels that they have to have a shop this early in developement then I'm going to look elsewhere for my next Mmorpg.
Even pay to play games are using cash shops. Putting a subscription onto a game doesn't guarantee the player anything.
I'm just very upset that GW2 would have any kind of shop at this point Kaerigan? I can understand the pay to play concept but when a game starts adding the little extras...they are trying to make up for some deficiency...I don't wan't to pay to look better...I don't wan't to pay to be better than everyone else! I just want a game to pay for that I can make friends, do quests, and have a worry free time playing! If GW2 feels that they have to have a shop this early in developement then I'm going to look elsewhere for my next Mmorpg.
I'm amused that the idea that somebody might have an exclusive cash shop outfit makes you so angry you refuse to patronize GW2.
Well, whatever makes you happy, not going to try and sway you or anything.
I'm just very upset that GW2 would have any kind of shop at this point Kaerigan? I can understand the pay to play concept but when a game starts adding the little extras...they are trying to make up for some deficiency...I don't wan't to pay to look better...I don't wan't to pay to be better than everyone else! I just want a game to pay for that I can make friends, do quests, and have a worry free time playing! If GW2 feels that they have to have a shop this early in developement then I'm going to look elsewhere for my next Mmorpg.
Even pay to play games are using cash shops. Putting a subscription onto a game doesn't guarantee the player anything.
As Kaerigan pointed out with his wow statement... But my main point is...why doesn't GW2 charge 15$ a month like all the other major MMO's? Why have a puff and fluff shop to make extra money when charging 15 bucks(a month) makes more sense? And then if u r successful... open up a puff and fluff shop? Not that I would like it.
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
I'm just very upset that GW2 would have any kind of shop at this point Kaerigan? I can understand the pay to play concept but when a game starts adding the little extras...they are trying to make up for some deficiency...I don't wan't to pay to look better...I don't wan't to pay to be better than everyone else! I just want a game to pay for that I can make friends, do quests, and have a worry free time playing! If GW2 feels that they have to have a shop this early in developement then I'm going to look elsewhere for my next Mmorpg.
Even pay to play games are using cash shops. Putting a subscription onto a game doesn't guarantee the player anything.
As Kaerigan pointed out with his wow statement... But my main point is...why doesn't GW2 charge 15$ a month like all the other major MMO's? Why have a puff and fluff shop to make extra money when charging 15 bucks makes more sense? And then if u r successful... open up a puff and fluff shop? Not that I would like it.
ArenaNet aren't using a subscription because they don't believe that you need to charge your players every month for your game to be successful. Subscriptions are only used because of greed. There is no logical reason for a game to need one. Server and bandwidth costs are barely anything and the excuse that they are need to pay for staff is complete bullshit. If a subscription is needed to pay for staff then how the hell have other companies kept alive when all they make is single player games that don't have subscriptions?
As Kaerigan pointed out with his wow statement... But my main point is...why doesn't GW2 charge 15$ a month like all the other major MMO's? Why have a puff and fluff shop to make extra money when charging 15 bucks(a month) makes more sense? And then if u r successful... open up a puff and fluff shop? Not that I would like it.
You're confusing the GW2 style (Basically supposed to be the same sort of style as GW1) cash shop with a F2P style cash shop I think.
You're saying it makes more sense for everybody to pay 15 dollars a month, than to have a game where people have no monthly fee, don't need to use the cash shop, and those who do use it would be hard pressed to figure out a way to pay 15 dollars a month?
So it's always better to have it mandatory to pay more money, rather than have it optional to pay money, with that option being less money than the mandatory way?
Not... not sure I'm following your logic chain here.
I'm just very upset that GW2 would have any kind of shop at this point Kaerigan? I can understand the pay to play concept but when a game starts adding the little extras...they are trying to make up for some deficiency...I don't wan't to pay to look better...I don't wan't to pay to be better than everyone else! I just want a game to pay for that I can make friends, do quests, and have a worry free time playing! If GW2 feels that they have to have a shop this early in developement then I'm going to look elsewhere for my next Mmorpg.
I'm amused that the idea that somebody might have an exclusive cash shop outfit makes you so angry you refuse to patronize GW2.
Well, whatever makes you happy, not going to try and sway you or anything.
Hmmm... What I guess I'm saying is that playing an mmorpg isn't on equal terms anymore. Any consumer pays for a game at face value...let's say...GW2! But the average consumer...such as myself, is simply paying for the game. When "Extras" are introduced to a game..."Then " it becomes so much more! Average folks...Such as myself...who paid for the game become 2nd hand citizens. Is that the point u were trying to make Meowhead? I can't afford to pay so many "dollars" to make my character "El Supremo!"
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
Hmmm... What I guess I'm saying is that playing an mmorpg isn't on equal terms anymore. Any consumer pays for a game at face value...let's say...GW2! But the average consumer...such as myself, is simply paying for the game. When "Extras" are introduced to a game..."Then " it becomes so much more! Average folks...Such as myself...who paid for the game become 2nd hand citizens. Is that the point u were trying to make Meowhead? I can't afford to pay so many "dollars" to make my character "El Supremo!"
If being behind in the battle of fashion bothers you so much... or if you're playing so much you really need extra character slots, or if you're hoarding so much you need extra storage...
... just take some of that 15 dollars a month you're saving for not paying a subscription, and buy it.
Or do you just burn those 15 dollars when you're not subbing?
Hmmm... What I guess I'm saying is that playing an mmorpg isn't on equal terms anymore. Any consumer pays for a game at face value...let's say...GW2! But the average consumer...such as myself, is simply paying for the game. When "Extras" are introduced to a game..."Then " it becomes so much more! Average folks...Such as myself...who paid for the game become 2nd hand citizens. Is that the point u were trying to make Meowhead? I can't afford to pay so many "dollars" to make my character "El Supremo!"
If being behind in the battle of fashion bothers you so much... or if you're playing so much you really need extra character slots, or if you're hoarding so much you need extra storage...
... just take some of that 15 dollars a month you're saving for not paying a subscription, and buy it.
Or do you just burn those 15 dollars when you're not subbing?
I'm guessing that u are a "Johnny come lately" Meowhead.
I already explained that I could look like a hobo(i.e...I don't care what I look like)...I don't need anymore character slots unless GW2 is as insanely easy as Rift. And I never hoard anything!(On mmorpgs anyway.)
And as I've always said. I would rather pay the 15$ a month than have some "funky" cash shop.
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
I'm guessing that u are a "Johnny come lately" Meowhead.
I already explained that I could look like a hobo(i.e...I don't care what I look like)...I don't need anymore character slots unless GW2 is as insanely easy as Rift. And I never hoard anything!(On mmorpgs anyway.)
And as I've always said. I would rather pay the 15$ a month than have some "funky" cash shop.
So there's nothing you actually WANT from the cash shop, you just want to pay an extra 15 dollars a month for no reason at all?
It's not so much I'm a Johnny come lately, but that I fail to see the logic in what you're saying. You haven't explained a good reason for why everybody should be paying an extra 15 dollars a month other than 'Because it makes Tepthtanis happy'
You'll have to excuse me if I don't want to pay extra money to make YOU happy.
You could just write a check for 15 dollars and mail it to Arenanet every month, and pretend you're paying a sub. That sounds fair to me?
... and nobody wants a 'funky' cash shop. GW2 fans are some of the first people to yell at even the scent of P2W style cash shop. Not all cash shops are created equal.
I'm guessing that u are a "Johnny come lately" Meowhead.
I already explained that I could look like a hobo(i.e...I don't care what I look like)...I don't need anymore character slots unless GW2 is as insanely easy as Rift. And I never hoard anything!(On mmorpgs anyway.)
And as I've always said. I would rather pay the 15$ a month than have some "funky" cash shop.
So there's nothing you actually WANT from the cash shop, you just want to pay an extra 15 dollars a month for no reason at all?
It's not so much I'm a Johnny come lately, but that I fail to see the logic in what you're saying. You haven't explained a good reason for why everybody should be paying an extra 15 dollars a month other than 'Because it makes Tepthtanis happy'
You'll have to excuse me if I don't want to pay extra money to make YOU happy.
You could just write a check for 15 dollars and mail it to Arenanet every month, and pretend you're paying a sub. That sounds fair to me?
... and nobody wants a 'funky' cash shop. GW2 fans are some of the first people to yell at even the scent of P2W style cash shop. Not all cash shops are created equal.
Good point(s) Meowhead. I have several questions for you though... If you answer them all to my satisfaction I will give you a ciberbow...Not much of a reward, I confess, but it is all I can offer right now.
1st Q! Why wouldn't Arenanet charge subsribers 15$ a month?
Why have a cash shop instead of 15$ a month gaurunteed money from every GW2 fan?
What do u want from the GW2 giftshop?
What do u think "I" would want from a Mmorpg gift shop?
What is in an mmorpg gift shop that I couldn't find in the game?
If you were me, what would I buy for u in a mmorpg gift shop?
Anything you buy for me and I buy for you...could we possibly wear out in public?
I thought this was a "vanity" gift shop which has no value in the game except for looks...lol!
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
I'm guessing that u are a "Johnny come lately" Meowhead. I already explained that I could look like a hobo(i.e...I don't care what I look like)...I don't need anymore character slots unless GW2 is as insanely easy as Rift. And I never hoard anything!(On mmorpgs anyway.) And as I've always said. I would rather pay the 15$ a month than have some "funky" cash shop.
So there's nothing you actually WANT from the cash shop, you just want to pay an extra 15 dollars a month for no reason at all? It's not so much I'm a Johnny come lately, but that I fail to see the logic in what you're saying. You haven't explained a good reason for why everybody should be paying an extra 15 dollars a month other than 'Because it makes Tepthtanis happy' You'll have to excuse me if I don't want to pay extra money to make YOU happy. You could just write a check for 15 dollars and mail it to Arenanet every month, and pretend you're paying a sub. That sounds fair to me? ... and nobody wants a 'funky' cash shop. GW2 fans are some of the first people to yell at even the scent of P2W style cash shop. Not all cash shops are created equal.
Good point(s) Meowhead. I have several questions for you though... If you answer them all to my satisfaction I will give you a ciberbow...Not much of a reward, I confess, but it is all I can offer right now. 1st Q! Why wouldn't Arenanet charge subsribers 15$ a month? Why have a cash shop instead of 15$ a month gaurunteed money from every GW2 fan? What do u want from the GW2 giftshop? What do u think "I" would want from a Mmorpg gift shop? What is in an mmorpg gift shop that I couldn't find in the game? If you were me, what would I buy for u in a mmorpg gift shop? Anything you buy for me and I buy for you...could we possibly wear out in public? I thought this was a "vanity" gift shop which has no value in the game except for looks...lol!
In the early years of the MMO industry, from roughly 1997 to 2001, there were a few big MMOs that had active player populations. By the time we started ArenaNet in the summer of 2000, we knew of at least eighty MMOs that were in development. Based on the success of UO and EQ, publishers were reviewing their portfolios and planning to migrate their existing game franchises to the online world, where they believed they could adopt a subscription model and "make bank". Clearly, it did not work out that way. As more MMOs came into the market, two things changed. First, players now had a choice about which game they would play, and as a result their expectations for polish, content quantity, and service increased substantially. Second, and perhaps more telling for the future of the industry, it became clear that the subscription model forced players to choose a single game, rather than playing many different games.
Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it. Gamers may buy the argument that your MMO requires a subscription fee, if you can tell them what they are getting for their money.
After that, in GW, you can buy extra character slots, unlock packs for PvP, assuming you don't want to play the PvE content to get the same things (you can't get anything in the store that you can't get through gameplay, and you cannot use what you buy in the store anywhere but PvP). You can get fun outfits (usually costumes or such). You can't get anything that would make you more powerful than anyone else, nor anything that will expedite your progress beyond normal (not that you need to, as there is no grind to level).
*I* want extra slots and such, and I like the cool outfits. These are things you buy to support actual continued development work. If the game is so much fun you need more character slots, the company deserves money. If you enjoy the game so much you want to deck your character out in fun garb for whatever reason, the company deserves your money. When the company makes an expansion pack with new content, the company deserves money.
The company does NOT deserve money for the sheer privilege of allowing you to play the game you've already paid for.
I have no idea whatever what the last few lines are supposed to mean.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
tepthanis: Of course I understand that you don't want to be part of an MMO that is pay-to-win, but I'm convinced that that is not the case here with Guild Wars 2. I just don't get you. Maybe you could try looking at GW2 like six months after release and see if it has fulfilled the terrible prophecy you're talking about. Or maybe not, you should play games that you like.
<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>
1st Q! Why wouldn't Arenanet charge subsribers 15$ a month?
Why have a cash shop instead of 15$ a month gaurunteed money from every GW2 fan?
How about I only answer these two questions...
When people ask your second question, I think they're thinking that the number of subscribers is going to be the same whether the game is P2P or B2P. If that were the case, then the company would certainly maximize profits by offering a sub, but it's not. B2P will certainly have a higher number of sales, and the players will be playing for much longer. When you put out a P2P subscription game, you force your players to choose whether they want to continue subbing or not every month. A lot of people won't pay two subscriptions at the same time, so any company with a P2P game has to fight some other P2P MMO for every subscription. A lot of people here say they'll pick up GW2 as a side game to their sub game. That's a sale that might not happen if it was P2P.
With a B2P game, people can stop playing and then come back and buy the expansion because they know that they don't need to resub to buy it. With a P2P game, once a player has moved on, they might be less likely to come back for the expansion. Or if they do, maybe they only play for a month before unsubscribing again. If a P2P player never gets past their free trial month, the game is might as well have been B2P for all the revenue it brought in from that person.
Being B2P means you can give the game as a gift without forcing someone to take up a subscription. I'm planning on buying at least two extra copies as gifts. Parents can buy a copy for their kids without worrying about whether they've got to budget for the rest of the year.
It also buys a lot of brand loyalty. I've bought the two GW2 novels that have come out and I'll buy the third. I'd never do that for WoW if I'm paying a sub. So ArenaNet has already gotten 2 months "subscription" from me, and the game isn't even out yet.
Don't worry about the cash shop, it's all vanity. Don't worry about ArenaNet's profits, I'm sure they'll be fine.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
What do u think "I" would want from a Mmorpg gift shop?
What is in an mmorpg gift shop that I couldn't find in the game?
If you were me, what would I buy for u in a mmorpg gift shop?
Anything you buy for me and I buy for you...could we possibly wear out in public?
I thought this was a "vanity" gift shop which has no value in the game except for looks...lol!
People answered your questions so I don't really have to (Though any halfway aware GW2 fan can answer questions about the cash shop, so I'm not surprised other people answered)
What I'm confused about is this part where you start talking about a gift shop, and buying presents for each other. I get this weird feeling, like you're trying to be clever and prove a point somehow, but all you're doing is making me wonder why in the world you're going off on a tangent that really doesn't have anything to do with GW2.
Especially your last sentence. That has 'Haha, I proved my point' written all over it, but the sentence doesn't even make sense in context with your previous sentences, so I'm not sure where you were going with that. Care to elucidate me?
I advocate against the idiocy that some people blantantly post on here. To sum things up for the people that ask about the GW2 method, it's simple. It's not the initial game buy that creates the massive amount of cash, it is the cash shop. Oh no I just went there. They didn't demographically just attract for US Players, they went for the gold in Asia. They buy more fluff and stuff over there, and it just so happens that the more fluff you offer them, the more fluff they buy. Hands down, this game was thought on a pyschologically addictive multi-level based on demogarphics.
Asia spends money on pay 2 win and fluff cash shops more than any other country. with GW2 don't expect revolutionary stuff, just expect a higher level of entertainment. You act like GW2 is your messiah and will just save the game industry. You can't save the American or European markets for mmorpgs. You can't save them because you can't make a game to satisfy their god-like expectations and their greed. They want want want and in return wish for nothing but to just troll the forums until their cyber genitals become swollen, and their ego spits flaming snots of doom at anyone who goes against their belittled mind.
P.S. I live in America, but I don't follow the same dogmatic mindset most gamers have.
I struggle not with life, money, emotions, and world, but against old mindsets and selves to be proven obsolete in a age and time of rapid changes. Go create fun, so you can have fun.
Comments
Perhaps you have gone to bed Chins and you can give me an answer tomorrow.
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
I'm sorry if I sounded aggressive? I didn't think I did when I wrote it... a little snarky maybe... And I get your position, I've been trying to find an F2P game where the item mall isn't totally screwed up, but thanks to companies like gPotato no such game exists that I know of. At least not any game worth playing. Well, LOTRO is kind of fun, but I want something else.
I think we all live in different timezones, is all.
<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
tepthtanis: I don't understand that logic. Why is that kind of system better? I don't see any problems with the game being B2P and then having a vanity item mall. Do you like paying a monthly subscription fee?
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I could've sworn I responded to this message already Kaerigan. Perhaps I hit the wrong button or I hit to close to home for someone.
My point is Kaerigan is that the company that is putting out GW2 is out to make money. Whether they put out a good product or not is up to you and I and potentionaly millions of other consumers. The GW2 braintrust has decided that a monthly fee isn't lucrative enough and decided to copy the FTP mmorpg's and have the "pay extra" to be better than everyone else philosophy...
You claim that it is a "pay to look better than everyone else" philosophy...but in reality...It's "The more cash you hand over the better you get." philosophy... If you handed me 5 bucks right now Kaerigan plus the price of the game I'm offering you and "Greg" just payed the price of the game...I'm liking you more. Here's another example...
If some well dressed "Payed an extra 5 dollars to look good prancingpretty"...Got his butt handed to him by you Kaerigan(and You simply paid the original price of the game)...Your toon is looking to get nerfed. Pay scales in "any" game is a huge mistake!!!
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
Wow. Just wow. There's literally NOTHING that points to this being the case. As I said, the developers have said that they're MAYBE planning to implement an item mall, and if they do, it will only contain COSMETIC items. Now tell me, in what world would my character get nerfed for pwning someone just because he had fancier clothing? It's not like the other player would expect to be better just because he has put out money on his clothing. He decided to pay money in order to look cool, not in order to be better.
Besides, WoW is P2P but it has a vanity item store and I'm hella sure that people aren't getting nerfed left and right just because somebody purchased "Lil' Ragnaros" or the "Celestial Steed" and still got beaten by someone with better skills.
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Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
tepthtanis: I'd link you the interview in which they talked about the item shop but I cannot remember where I heard it. I'm pretty sure it was Colin Johanson (one of the lead designers, I think) and he just briefly mentioned it in a panel interview of some sort. I know I'm not imagining things, this fella here mentions it as well, although I don't think we heard it from the same source. Also, I finally found a link to the Guild Wars cash shop. Guild Wars 2 will follow the same model as Guild Wars 1. Look at what you can buy in the store. Only vanity and convenience items as far as I can understand.
And do you really think that ArenaNet works like American politics? Nothing ArenaNet has done (as far as I know!) would indicate that the players with the most money to waste would "have the power".
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I'm just very upset that GW2 would have any kind of shop at this point Kaerigan? I can understand the pay to play concept but when a game starts adding the little extras...they are trying to make up for some deficiency...I don't wan't to pay to look better...I don't wan't to pay to be better than everyone else! I just want a game to pay for that I can make friends, do quests, and have a worry free time playing! If GW2 feels that they have to have a shop this early in developement then I'm going to look elsewhere for my next Mmorpg.
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
Even pay to play games are using cash shops. Putting a subscription onto a game doesn't guarantee the player anything.
I'm amused that the idea that somebody might have an exclusive cash shop outfit makes you so angry you refuse to patronize GW2.
Well, whatever makes you happy, not going to try and sway you or anything.
As Kaerigan pointed out with his wow statement... But my main point is...why doesn't GW2 charge 15$ a month like all the other major MMO's? Why have a puff and fluff shop to make extra money when charging 15 bucks(a month) makes more sense? And then if u r successful... open up a puff and fluff shop? Not that I would like it.
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
ArenaNet aren't using a subscription because they don't believe that you need to charge your players every month for your game to be successful. Subscriptions are only used because of greed. There is no logical reason for a game to need one. Server and bandwidth costs are barely anything and the excuse that they are need to pay for staff is complete bullshit. If a subscription is needed to pay for staff then how the hell have other companies kept alive when all they make is single player games that don't have subscriptions?
You're confusing the GW2 style (Basically supposed to be the same sort of style as GW1) cash shop with a F2P style cash shop I think.
You're saying it makes more sense for everybody to pay 15 dollars a month, than to have a game where people have no monthly fee, don't need to use the cash shop, and those who do use it would be hard pressed to figure out a way to pay 15 dollars a month?
So it's always better to have it mandatory to pay more money, rather than have it optional to pay money, with that option being less money than the mandatory way?
Not... not sure I'm following your logic chain here.
Hmmm... What I guess I'm saying is that playing an mmorpg isn't on equal terms anymore. Any consumer pays for a game at face value...let's say...GW2! But the average consumer...such as myself, is simply paying for the game. When "Extras" are introduced to a game..."Then " it becomes so much more! Average folks...Such as myself...who paid for the game become 2nd hand citizens. Is that the point u were trying to make Meowhead? I can't afford to pay so many "dollars" to make my character "El Supremo!"
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
If being behind in the battle of fashion bothers you so much... or if you're playing so much you really need extra character slots, or if you're hoarding so much you need extra storage...
... just take some of that 15 dollars a month you're saving for not paying a subscription, and buy it.
Or do you just burn those 15 dollars when you're not subbing?
I'm guessing that u are a "Johnny come lately" Meowhead.
I already explained that I could look like a hobo(i.e...I don't care what I look like)...I don't need anymore character slots unless GW2 is as insanely easy as Rift. And I never hoard anything!(On mmorpgs anyway.)
And as I've always said. I would rather pay the 15$ a month than have some "funky" cash shop.
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
So there's nothing you actually WANT from the cash shop, you just want to pay an extra 15 dollars a month for no reason at all?
It's not so much I'm a Johnny come lately, but that I fail to see the logic in what you're saying. You haven't explained a good reason for why everybody should be paying an extra 15 dollars a month other than 'Because it makes Tepthtanis happy'
You'll have to excuse me if I don't want to pay extra money to make YOU happy.
You could just write a check for 15 dollars and mail it to Arenanet every month, and pretend you're paying a sub. That sounds fair to me?
... and nobody wants a 'funky' cash shop. GW2 fans are some of the first people to yell at even the scent of P2W style cash shop. Not all cash shops are created equal.
Good point(s) Meowhead. I have several questions for you though... If you answer them all to my satisfaction I will give you a ciberbow...Not much of a reward, I confess, but it is all I can offer right now.
1st Q! Why wouldn't Arenanet charge subsribers 15$ a month?
Why have a cash shop instead of 15$ a month gaurunteed money from every GW2 fan?
What do u want from the GW2 giftshop?
What do u think "I" would want from a Mmorpg gift shop?
What is in an mmorpg gift shop that I couldn't find in the game?
If you were me, what would I buy for u in a mmorpg gift shop?
Anything you buy for me and I buy for you...could we possibly wear out in public?
I thought this was a "vanity" gift shop which has no value in the game except for looks...lol!
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
I'm not Meowhead, but, read this: http://www.guildwars.com/events/tradeshows/gc2007/gcspeech.php
After that, in GW, you can buy extra character slots, unlock packs for PvP, assuming you don't want to play the PvE content to get the same things (you can't get anything in the store that you can't get through gameplay, and you cannot use what you buy in the store anywhere but PvP). You can get fun outfits (usually costumes or such). You can't get anything that would make you more powerful than anyone else, nor anything that will expedite your progress beyond normal (not that you need to, as there is no grind to level).
*I* want extra slots and such, and I like the cool outfits. These are things you buy to support actual continued development work. If the game is so much fun you need more character slots, the company deserves money. If you enjoy the game so much you want to deck your character out in fun garb for whatever reason, the company deserves your money. When the company makes an expansion pack with new content, the company deserves money.
The company does NOT deserve money for the sheer privilege of allowing you to play the game you've already paid for.
I have no idea whatever what the last few lines are supposed to mean.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
tepthanis: Of course I understand that you don't want to be part of an MMO that is pay-to-win, but I'm convinced that that is not the case here with Guild Wars 2. I just don't get you. Maybe you could try looking at GW2 like six months after release and see if it has fulfilled the terrible prophecy you're talking about. Or maybe not, you should play games that you like.
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How about I only answer these two questions...
When people ask your second question, I think they're thinking that the number of subscribers is going to be the same whether the game is P2P or B2P. If that were the case, then the company would certainly maximize profits by offering a sub, but it's not. B2P will certainly have a higher number of sales, and the players will be playing for much longer. When you put out a P2P subscription game, you force your players to choose whether they want to continue subbing or not every month. A lot of people won't pay two subscriptions at the same time, so any company with a P2P game has to fight some other P2P MMO for every subscription. A lot of people here say they'll pick up GW2 as a side game to their sub game. That's a sale that might not happen if it was P2P.
With a B2P game, people can stop playing and then come back and buy the expansion because they know that they don't need to resub to buy it. With a P2P game, once a player has moved on, they might be less likely to come back for the expansion. Or if they do, maybe they only play for a month before unsubscribing again. If a P2P player never gets past their free trial month, the game is might as well have been B2P for all the revenue it brought in from that person.
Being B2P means you can give the game as a gift without forcing someone to take up a subscription. I'm planning on buying at least two extra copies as gifts. Parents can buy a copy for their kids without worrying about whether they've got to budget for the rest of the year.
It also buys a lot of brand loyalty. I've bought the two GW2 novels that have come out and I'll buy the third. I'd never do that for WoW if I'm paying a sub. So ArenaNet has already gotten 2 months "subscription" from me, and the game isn't even out yet.
Don't worry about the cash shop, it's all vanity. Don't worry about ArenaNet's profits, I'm sure they'll be fine.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
People answered your questions so I don't really have to (Though any halfway aware GW2 fan can answer questions about the cash shop, so I'm not surprised other people answered)
What I'm confused about is this part where you start talking about a gift shop, and buying presents for each other. I get this weird feeling, like you're trying to be clever and prove a point somehow, but all you're doing is making me wonder why in the world you're going off on a tangent that really doesn't have anything to do with GW2.
Especially your last sentence. That has 'Haha, I proved my point' written all over it, but the sentence doesn't even make sense in context with your previous sentences, so I'm not sure where you were going with that. Care to elucidate me?
I advocate against the idiocy that some people blantantly post on here. To sum things up for the people that ask about the GW2 method, it's simple. It's not the initial game buy that creates the massive amount of cash, it is the cash shop. Oh no I just went there. They didn't demographically just attract for US Players, they went for the gold in Asia. They buy more fluff and stuff over there, and it just so happens that the more fluff you offer them, the more fluff they buy. Hands down, this game was thought on a pyschologically addictive multi-level based on demogarphics.
Asia spends money on pay 2 win and fluff cash shops more than any other country. with GW2 don't expect revolutionary stuff, just expect a higher level of entertainment. You act like GW2 is your messiah and will just save the game industry. You can't save the American or European markets for mmorpgs. You can't save them because you can't make a game to satisfy their god-like expectations and their greed. They want want want and in return wish for nothing but to just troll the forums until their cyber genitals become swollen, and their ego spits flaming snots of doom at anyone who goes against their belittled mind.
P.S. I live in America, but I don't follow the same dogmatic mindset most gamers have.
I struggle not with life, money, emotions, and world, but against old mindsets and selves to be proven obsolete in a age and time of rapid changes. Go create fun, so you can have fun.
^
Asia is not a coutry btw, it is a continent of course it will have a larger market to buy in cash shops than any other country-.-