Star Wars: The Old Republic: Space Combat Cont'd: On Rails Edition!

solarine

Originally posted by Shodanas

As i wrote in a similar post on mmorpg forums: did the absense of space combat hinder poeple from enjoying KotOR, one of the best rpg's in the last decade and best SW game ever released? No, it did not. TOR is based on the KotOR series lore where space combat ,right or not, plays an insignificant role. Bioware never promised a fully fledged space sim experience in the first place.

 

Actually, I'd say the turret shooter mini-game KOTOR had was a detriment to one's enjoyment of the game. I kept loading to try and skip the random space encounters, they were so devoid of fun. But the game itself, was a joy.

Now, if they'd had a solid, fully fleshed-out space game on top of the ground RPG in KOTOR, would it have worked? Would it be amazing? I have no idea.

Bob_Blawblaw

Good article Mike. I totally agree with you.

I'm not a TOR apologist, but the things up until now that have kind of irk'd me about TOR (that we know of), I've been saying, "yeah this looks bad, but we'll wait and see for the final judgement"... but I'm having trouble saying that after this bit of news (along with the species/class restrictions). It's starting to sound like they are cutting corners a bit.

If this is true, it's the first real potential dealbreaker for me.

To those that say Star Wars doesn't need space combat, I say this... Star = Space, and Wars = Combat (WarS being plural, meaning LOTS of combat). Nuff said.

Drakynn

I have to agree with others who are questioning this whole Mandate BS,

 

You know I played both KoTORs,Dark Forces,The jedi Knight Series,Republic Commando and hell even SUper Star Wars on the SNES without once thinking "This game sucks and isn't Star Wars because there's no space combat"

I also played x-wing,Tie Fighter and X-wing V Tie Fighter without once thinking "This game sucks and isn't Star Wars because I can't swing a lightsbaer or engage in a shootout with strom troopers on foot."

 

It's not even that people who aren't whining incessantly about this are giving Bioware a pass or having low standards.Thos are people who came to SW:TOR for the advertized MMORPG expereince not X-wing V Tie Fighter Online.For MMORPG lovers the addition of this space combat section is a minor issue,it could be complete crap but as long as the meat of the game the MMORPG part is good,engaging and entertaining they won't care and will jsut skip the space combat.However if the meat of the game turns out crap which is entirely possible then they will be complainging about ti louder than anyone.

 

Whilst I hope that the whole package comes together and is entertaining if this added space combat is bad but the rest of the game is great then in the end not many will care.However if the opposite is true and The Space Combat sections are the only good part of this game thne the game will fail badly because it didn't deliver ont he meat of the game.

JYCowboy

Wow, $150 million for budget and space is an after thought of a system?  Its looking more and more that LA is wanting to create a Star Wars LEGOs experiance.  It will be strong in story and atmosphere but lacking in endgame elements for release.  They are still calling this an MMO, correct? As someone said above, lets hope they have bigger plans for expansions.

Lawlmonster

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by punkazzINC

Why expect anything?  Unless you made the game, produced the game, or were involved in any step of creation you shouldn't expect it to do anything. 

Jesus, this is definitely part of the problem, right here. Did we turn into pussies as consumers, or something? Holding people, and companies, to expectations is the only way you can ensure that their productions will become better over time, and not worse. Otherwise, they're going to give you as much or as little as they can get away with, while keeping themselves profitable. That's just the way things work. I didn't expect space to be in the game at all, either, but I did expect that, if they ever decided to put it in, it would serve some larger purpose than an on-rails space shooter, or expand upon what they did with the KOTOR space game beyond seven different environments to tunnel snipe a line of ducks.

Ha,  thats the point isn't it?  You can hold them to whatever expectation you want, but they don't have to meet your expectation, and you don't have to buy their product.  No one is rolling over because they are okay with the creation of a system they had no expectations for.  If you want to voice your opinion on what IS in the game, you can do that all day,  but if you want your expectations to rule what the developers are going to do you'll need much more capital.  Like,  enough to either build your own game, or buy BioWare.  Otherwise,  show BioWare your dislike by not buying the game.  

 

We as consumers have a choice.  Buy it or not. Doesn't get more simple then that.  

The person I posted in response to was saying that, unless I'm involved with the game production or creation, I simply cannot have expectations for what it should do. I'm saying that, no, without these expectations, we can't ever demand more as consumers. You're right that I have a choice to buy the product, and I've already decided I am a long while before space was even mentioned, but it doesn't mean that I can't look back to their budget, and to their design studio, and say to myself and to others, "Gee, you know what? They're probably capable of making something better than this."

Snaylor47

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Good article Mike. I totally agree with you.

I'm not a TOR apologist, but the things up until now that have kind of irk'd me about TOR (that we know of), I've been saying, "yeah this looks bad, but we'll wait and see for the final judgement"... but I'm having trouble saying that after this bit of news (along with the species/class restrictions). It's starting to sound like they are cutting corners a bit.

If this is true, it's the first real potential dealbreaker for me.

To those that say Star Wars doesn't need space combat, I say this... Star = Space, and Wars = Combat (WarS being plural, meaning LOTS of combat). Nuff said.

Space fighting in Star Wars was never about two little dogfighters just going at it, You followed Luke as he made his way down the trench of the Death Star, Han and Chewie tried to out run TIE fighters, never in the Star Wars movies did the camera ever zoom in on two mini ships fighting.

Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

To those that say Star Wars doesn't need space combat, I say this... Star = Space, and Wars = Combat (WarS being plural, meaning LOTS of combat). Nuff said.

Space fighting in Star Wars was never about two little dogfighters just going at it, You followed Luke as he made his way down the trench of the Death Star, Han and Chewie tried to out run TIE fighters, never in the Star Wars movies did the camera ever zoom in on two mini ships fighting.

Are you sure about that?

nAAtimus

Star Fox Online, sweet.

Drakynn

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

To those that say Star Wars doesn't need space combat, I say this... Star = Space, and Wars = Combat (WarS being plural, meaning LOTS of combat). Nuff said.

This tired old argument for the 1 billionth time. Star =/= space ,whilst a star is body of amtter in space it's true,so are planets and,asteroids and meteors and anything else floating int he vacuum we call space.Learn Astronomy.

 

Does SW:TOR take you to multiple STAR Systems in which a battle for control is waging in say a WAR?Oh Look Star Wars!!!!

severius

Originally posted by SBFord

MMORPG.com Community Manager Michael Bitton has another fascinating article about space combat in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Last week, Mike expressed concern over Bioware's statement that space combat would be an "alternative gameplay experience". But what a difference a week makes. Find out if Mike still has worries about space combat...or not.

The language used in the original announcement, namely that the space combat component would be an “alternative gameplay experience”, something to do when not focused on the “primary game of story-telling, questing, and ground-based combat.” got me a bit worried. This was starting to sound like space combat would be a bit of a side-show, not something players could really sink into. In fact, I drew comparisons to the space combat mini-game featured in Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures, the Star Wars MMO designed by SOE for a younger demographic (think Free Realms with a Star Wars skin). However, I was hopeful that we’d see something more akin to Star Wars Galaxies’ Jump to Lightspeed, which actually did a really good job at capturing the Star Wars space experience overall.

Read Space Combat Cont’d: On Rails Edition.

Again?!?! Really???? Do you really think this is necessary?  The fans of SWG are NOT in charge of making this game.  If JTL is all that great then guess what?  It has already been released!!!  You, a staff writer, taking a column to whine and complain like the people on the official forums in a dozen or more threads and how many tens of threads here in your own forums?  Maybe you should read the 120 page thread where the poll is located, or any of the dozen threads here on this site to get your answer as to "what we are thinking". 

Personally, I can care less because star wars is not about flashy space combat.  It's about character development.  Things changed as the movies progressed and lucas looked to satisfy the kiddie crowd and not make them think so much, plus they had new special effects that they wanted to show off.  Which is the only place where I think space really started to take a front seat (the pre-quels, but that could because of the pathetic performances put in by people like Hayden Christensen).

The majority of us want to see what BioWare has developed before /wrist.  JTL was a hollow, soulless experience, and I am more than happy that that isn't being tossed into the game.  This sideshow, if thats what it is in game, is not the meat, just the starch.

maskedweasel

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by punkazzINC

Why expect anything?  Unless you made the game, produced the game, or were involved in any step of creation you shouldn't expect it to do anything. 

Jesus, this is definitely part of the problem, right here. Did we turn into pussies as consumers, or something? Holding people, and companies, to expectations is the only way you can ensure that their productions will become better over time, and not worse. Otherwise, they're going to give you as much or as little as they can get away with, while keeping themselves profitable. That's just the way things work. I didn't expect space to be in the game at all, either, but I did expect that, if they ever decided to put it in, it would serve some larger purpose than an on-rails space shooter, or expand upon what they did with the KOTOR space game beyond seven different environments to tunnel snipe a line of ducks.

Ha,  thats the point isn't it?  You can hold them to whatever expectation you want, but they don't have to meet your expectation, and you don't have to buy their product.  No one is rolling over because they are okay with the creation of a system they had no expectations for.  If you want to voice your opinion on what IS in the game, you can do that all day,  but if you want your expectations to rule what the developers are going to do you'll need much more capital.  Like,  enough to either build your own game, or buy BioWare.  Otherwise,  show BioWare your dislike by not buying the game.  

 

We as consumers have a choice.  Buy it or not. Doesn't get more simple then that.  

The person I posted in response to was saying that, unless I'm involved with the game production or creation, I simply cannot have expectations for what it should do. I'm saying that, no, without these expectations, we can't ever demand more as consumers. You're right that I have a choice to buy the product, and I've already decided I am a long while before space was even mentioned, but it doesn't mean that I can't look back to their budget, and to their design studio, and say to myself and to others, "Gee, you know what? They're probably capable of making something better than this."

I see now.  I agree they *could* have done a better space experience,  but they decided to go this route for a specific reason.

 

I'm really just trying to find out why people think this is some sort of half-assed, last minute feature because they don't like the direction.  I think it was thought out quite a bit, and thats why they went for this style specifically.  I loved JTL  but I didn't expect if from BioWare.  I'd love to see some depth in the space combat,  but I'm really looking for entertainment, and if they can accomplish that through a tunnel shooter, then I'm all for it.

Snaylor47

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

To those that say Star Wars doesn't need space combat, I say this... Star = Space, and Wars = Combat (WarS being plural, meaning LOTS of combat). Nuff said.

Space fighting in Star Wars was never about two little dogfighters just going at it, You followed Luke as he made his way down the trench of the Death Star, Han and Chewie tried to out run TIE fighters, never in the Star Wars movies did the camera ever zoom in on two mini ships fighting.

Are you sure about that?

Yeah purty sure...

Atisshar

IT'S A CRAP!, if this is true, some space combat as such is an offense... I would like something like Jump to lightspeed, quite inmersive and not necessary to have a Pilot grade in real life to have fun, like in X-Wing vs Tie Fighter.

Sunrock

I totally agree with the article. Adding a tunnel shooter will sooner or later bite BioWare in the arse.

 

And I dont think I have to say I'm very very disapointed by how BioWare is doing space combat.

Snaylor47

People do know that the best selling Star Wars game of all times has no space combat right.

 

And on a side note neither did SWG when it first came out.

 

Maybe is just a place holder for future space combat.

MikeB

Originally posted by severius

Originally posted by SBFord

MMORPG.com Community Manager Michael Bitton has another fascinating article about space combat in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Last week, Mike expressed concern over Bioware's statement that space combat would be an "alternative gameplay experience". But what a difference a week makes. Find out if Mike still has worries about space combat...or not.

The language used in the original announcement, namely that the space combat component would be an “alternative gameplay experience”, something to do when not focused on the “primary game of story-telling, questing, and ground-based combat.” got me a bit worried. This was starting to sound like space combat would be a bit of a side-show, not something players could really sink into. In fact, I drew comparisons to the space combat mini-game featured in Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures, the Star Wars MMO designed by SOE for a younger demographic (think Free Realms with a Star Wars skin). However, I was hopeful that we’d see something more akin to Star Wars Galaxies’ Jump to Lightspeed, which actually did a really good job at capturing the Star Wars space experience overall.

Read Space Combat Cont’d: On Rails Edition.

Again?!?! Really???? Do you really think this is necessary?  The fans of SWG are NOT in charge of making this game.  If JTL is all that great then guess what?  It has already been released!!!  You, a staff writer, taking a column to whine and complain like the people on the official forums in a dozen or more threads and how many tens of threads here in your own forums?  Maybe you should read the 120 page thread where the poll is located, or any of the dozen threads here on this site to get your answer as to "what we are thinking".  Maybe instead of writing a flame, whine piece, you should do some of your own research, present all sides of the argument and then ask for a discussion.  I dunno, actually do something more than offering your own opinion as if it is some sort of holy grail and challenge everyone to prove you wrong.  Where opinions are concerned there is no changing someone's mind.  Here's a new word of the day for you, OBJECTIVITY.

 

Here is a new word for you: column.

I also didn't challenge anyone except for Bioware to prove me wrong. And by that I meant prove me wrong in implementing a full fledged space component later, something I don't expect to happen, but would love to be wrong about.

Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

To those that say Star Wars doesn't need space combat, I say this... Star = Space, and Wars = Combat (WarS being plural, meaning LOTS of combat). Nuff said.

Space fighting in Star Wars was never about two little dogfighters just going at it, You followed Luke as he made his way down the trench of the Death Star, Han and Chewie tried to out run TIE fighters, never in the Star Wars movies did the camera ever zoom in on two mini ships fighting.

Are you sure about that?

Yeah purty sure...

Wonder what version of Star Wars you're watching. Maybe it's just George doing his crazy remake thing again, but the last time I watched ROTJ, I'd say the last half 45 minutes or so is kinda chocked full of all sorts of ship to ship combat.

I guess George edited that out of the version you saw.

Lawlmonster

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by punkazzINC

Why expect anything?  Unless you made the game, produced the game, or were involved in any step of creation you shouldn't expect it to do anything. 

Jesus, this is definitely part of the problem, right here. Did we turn into pussies as consumers, or something? Holding people, and companies, to expectations is the only way you can ensure that their productions will become better over time, and not worse. Otherwise, they're going to give you as much or as little as they can get away with, while keeping themselves profitable. That's just the way things work. I didn't expect space to be in the game at all, either, but I did expect that, if they ever decided to put it in, it would serve some larger purpose than an on-rails space shooter, or expand upon what they did with the KOTOR space game beyond seven different environments to tunnel snipe a line of ducks.

Ha,  thats the point isn't it?  You can hold them to whatever expectation you want, but they don't have to meet your expectation, and you don't have to buy their product.  No one is rolling over because they are okay with the creation of a system they had no expectations for.  If you want to voice your opinion on what IS in the game, you can do that all day,  but if you want your expectations to rule what the developers are going to do you'll need much more capital.  Like,  enough to either build your own game, or buy BioWare.  Otherwise,  show BioWare your dislike by not buying the game.  

 

We as consumers have a choice.  Buy it or not. Doesn't get more simple then that.  

The person I posted in response to was saying that, unless I'm involved with the game production or creation, I simply cannot have expectations for what it should do. I'm saying that, no, without these expectations, we can't ever demand more as consumers. You're right that I have a choice to buy the product, and I've already decided I am a long while before space was even mentioned, but it doesn't mean that I can't look back to their budget, and to their design studio, and say to myself and to others, "Gee, you know what? They're probably capable of making something better than this."

I see now.  I agree they *could* have done a better space experience,  but they decided to go this route for a specific reason.

 

I'm really just trying to find out why people think this is some sort of half-assed, last minute feature because they don't like the direction.  I think it was thought out quite a bit, and thats why they went for this style specifically.  I loved JTL  but I didn't expect if from BioWare.  I'd love to see some depth in the space combat,  but I'm really looking for entertainment, and if they can accomplish that through a tunnel shooter, then I'm all for it.

It's hard for me to disagree that this version of the space experience isn't fitting with the original KOTOR design, where TOR comes from, because space was the same in those games, also (and I loved them). They might be right, that space centered sections of the films usually centered around traveling, or a large combat mission with a multitude of ships on either side. It does seem like an effortless way to put space into their game, though, in that it really doesn't require much from the development team to make an on-rails shooter game like this (what, a background, a couple enemy ship models, and pre-programmed pathing?). Entertainment is bottom line, I'll agree, but I'd question how fun these tunnel shooter bits will actually be after the first few times playing them. I can only imagine that they won't be randomized, but if they did something to change up the content enough to make each of those instanced flight experiences a bit different than the one before, that'd certainly be a step in the right direction.

Nilden

They should be able to make space combat better than jump to lightspeed from SWG but instead go for a star fox like experience from 1993 for the super nintendo. The best part is some people praise them for including the on rails tunnel shooter at all saying that we are not entiltled to anything like oh space combat in a star wars MMO. What a joke.

karnisov

Michael,

   I must say I am surprised there are still members of the mmo journalist community that are objective enough to call Bioware on their BS. You have my respect.

   Yes space on rails is a huge insult, and its fanboys and console kids that are voting up the "Yes".

   For the readers that are not familiar with the back history of space as requested by the TOR community, there was a thread with a poll in it that had to be restarted 3 times due to it filling up from so much activity. 3d dogfighter was most requested. Rail Shooter was least requested. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=18061 and http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=136283 . Now the second link Rail Shooter category had only 13 votes for 1.33% before the news hit. The fanboys since tried to vote it up some but its still blown away by the votes for 3d dogfighter categories.

  Which highlights the reason this is such a big deal. There were polls in the forums showing what people who were interested in space wanted well before the Comic-Con reveal. And Bioware completely ignored that and took the easy way out.

  The only way we can send a clear message to Bioware and EA is to not buy this game if they let the rail shooter environment stand. If we all buy the game even though we are unhappy, our voices will not be heard and it will send a clear message to developers, "hey its ok to ignore people and give them something they don't want. they'll still buy the game like good little fanboys".

  If they remove the rail shooter environment and do a proper 3d dogfighter as a later expansion I will consider buying.

WhiteLantern

To the article writer: I'm one of those people who likes the way this is headed. I'm not saying I wouldn't have liked a flight sim if that is what they chose to do; however, I would have been less likely to have participated in the flight sim mini-game as I will be the rail-shooter mini-game.

Just saying.

maskedweasel

Originally posted by MikeB

Originally posted by severius

Originally posted by SBFord

MMORPG.com Community Manager Michael Bitton has another fascinating article about space combat in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Last week, Mike expressed concern over Bioware's statement that space combat would be an "alternative gameplay experience". But what a difference a week makes. Find out if Mike still has worries about space combat...or not.

The language used in the original announcement, namely that the space combat component would be an “alternative gameplay experience”, something to do when not focused on the “primary game of story-telling, questing, and ground-based combat.” got me a bit worried. This was starting to sound like space combat would be a bit of a side-show, not something players could really sink into. In fact, I drew comparisons to the space combat mini-game featured in Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures, the Star Wars MMO designed by SOE for a younger demographic (think Free Realms with a Star Wars skin). However, I was hopeful that we’d see something more akin to Star Wars Galaxies’ Jump to Lightspeed, which actually did a really good job at capturing the Star Wars space experience overall.

Read Space Combat Cont’d: On Rails Edition.

Again?!?! Really???? Do you really think this is necessary?  The fans of SWG are NOT in charge of making this game.  If JTL is all that great then guess what?  It has already been released!!!  You, a staff writer, taking a column to whine and complain like the people on the official forums in a dozen or more threads and how many tens of threads here in your own forums?  Maybe you should read the 120 page thread where the poll is located, or any of the dozen threads here on this site to get your answer as to "what we are thinking".  Maybe instead of writing a flame, whine piece, you should do some of your own research, present all sides of the argument and then ask for a discussion.  I dunno, actually do something more than offering your own opinion as if it is some sort of holy grail and challenge everyone to prove you wrong.  Where opinions are concerned there is no changing someone's mind.  Here's a new word of the day for you, OBJECTIVITY.

 

Here is a new word for you: column.

I also didn't challenge anyone except for Bioware to prove me wrong. And by that I meant prove me wrong in implementing a full fledged space component later, something I don't expect to happen, but would love to be wrong about.

Wouldn't you want to try the initial system before asking them to make an open ended flight simulator?  Is it possible they will expand the space system?  Most definitely it is possible.  Will it ever be a space simulator?  Most probably not.  The question is,  how detrimental is that to the game if the current system is scalable, exciting, and rewarding?

Snaylor47

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

To those that say Star Wars doesn't need space combat, I say this... Star = Space, and Wars = Combat (WarS being plural, meaning LOTS of combat). Nuff said.

Space fighting in Star Wars was never about two little dogfighters just going at it, You followed Luke as he made his way down the trench of the Death Star, Han and Chewie tried to out run TIE fighters, never in the Star Wars movies did the camera ever zoom in on two mini ships fighting.

Are you sure about that?

Yeah purty sure...

Wonder what version of Star Wars you're watching. Maybe it's just George doing his crazy remake thing again, but the last time I watched ROTJ, I'd say the last half 45 minutes or so is kinda chocked full of all sorts of ship to ship combat.

I guess George edited that out of the version you saw.

You mean them big old juggernaut ships shooting at each, and the occational three second clip of the Falcon actually dog fighting with a TIE fighter or two. And if I remember right most of Star Wars happened on foot.

Osirrus

about 18 months ago, when i first heard about SWTOR i was super hyped, but since that time, every piece of news and every game play demo has steadily ground down my expectations for this game.

i am looking for an inovative revolutionary step for my next mmo....

This is just  wow-in-space and now its wow-in-space-on-rails

the only people i see playing this game are starwars fanboys and people completely new the mmo's

i think anyone who has been playing MMo's for years will simply say...blah blah bin there done that a million times before.....

 

Give us something new and exciting please

maskedweasel

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by punkazzINC

Why expect anything?  Unless you made the game, produced the game, or were involved in any step of creation you shouldn't expect it to do anything. 

Jesus, this is definitely part of the problem, right here. Did we turn into pussies as consumers, or something? Holding people, and companies, to expectations is the only way you can ensure that their productions will become better over time, and not worse. Otherwise, they're going to give you as much or as little as they can get away with, while keeping themselves profitable. That's just the way things work. I didn't expect space to be in the game at all, either, but I did expect that, if they ever decided to put it in, it would serve some larger purpose than an on-rails space shooter, or expand upon what they did with the KOTOR space game beyond seven different environments to tunnel snipe a line of ducks.

Ha,  thats the point isn't it?  You can hold them to whatever expectation you want, but they don't have to meet your expectation, and you don't have to buy their product.  No one is rolling over because they are okay with the creation of a system they had no expectations for.  If you want to voice your opinion on what IS in the game, you can do that all day,  but if you want your expectations to rule what the developers are going to do you'll need much more capital.  Like,  enough to either build your own game, or buy BioWare.  Otherwise,  show BioWare your dislike by not buying the game.  

 

We as consumers have a choice.  Buy it or not. Doesn't get more simple then that.  

The person I posted in response to was saying that, unless I'm involved with the game production or creation, I simply cannot have expectations for what it should do. I'm saying that, no, without these expectations, we can't ever demand more as consumers. You're right that I have a choice to buy the product, and I've already decided I am a long while before space was even mentioned, but it doesn't mean that I can't look back to their budget, and to their design studio, and say to myself and to others, "Gee, you know what? They're probably capable of making something better than this."

I see now.  I agree they *could* have done a better space experience,  but they decided to go this route for a specific reason.

 

I'm really just trying to find out why people think this is some sort of half-assed, last minute feature because they don't like the direction.  I think it was thought out quite a bit, and thats why they went for this style specifically.  I loved JTL  but I didn't expect if from BioWare.  I'd love to see some depth in the space combat,  but I'm really looking for entertainment, and if they can accomplish that through a tunnel shooter, then I'm all for it.

It's hard for me to disagree that this version of the space experience isn't fitting with the original KOTOR design, where TOR comes from, because space was the same in those games, also (and I loved them). They might be right, that space centered sections of the films usually centered around traveling, or a large combat mission with a multitude of ships on either side. It does seem like an effortless way to put space into their game, though, in that it really doesn't require much from the development team to make an on-rails shooter game like this (what, a background, a couple enemy ship models, and pre-programmed pathing?). Entertainment is bottom line, I'll agree, but I'd question how fun these tunnel shooter bits will actually be after the first few times playing them. I can only imagine that they won't be randomized, but if they did something to change up the content enough to make each of those instanced flight experiences a bit different than the one before, that'd certainly be a step in the right direction.

I can't argue with that,  you can only run through a tunnel shooter so many times before it gets repetitive.  The game play style isn't directed at longevity,  its directed at quick, fast paced action.  In that sense,  I see very little depth in the system,  but solely a cinematic feature that is playing to BioWares strengths in this title.    Though I think the space system in place was a well thought out article from BioWare, I think when it comes to the players,  it will only be an afterthought that adds little more then an alternate experience with average rewards.  Maybe they can build on that,  but at this point I feel its fitting to a degree.