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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Space Combat Cont'd: On Rails Edition!
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let me ask a question to all of you, now that we are hearing more and more about tor and what bioware is doing with it am i the only one that knows this game is going to fail?
me and many others like the fringe have been saying this for months now. 8 classes? no real way to custom make your toon? they haven't shown us really anything besides two somewhat well done trailers that look nothing like the game will. they haven't shown us the pvp system or end game content. all so far we have seen is it's wow in space with a pre-told story and now space is an on rails shooter.
this isn't the game i want or you want! look around the theme park wow games are failing and people are demanding for skill based sandbox titles! but bioware isn't going to give you that.
lets be truthful here every game bioware makes is the same. really kotor was their last good game and everything that has come out after that has not been good. jade empire? boring. mass effect? more of an fps then an rpg. dragon age? boring. mass effect 2? just one big dlcfest that is sucking the money from players into ea's pockets. and now tor shows that bioware truely has no idea what we gamers want.
now is the time where we should all each and every one of us say no more to what bioware is trying to feed us. we should demand that they give us the game we want not the game they want. tor is now in the eyes of not just me but many others 2011 or more likely 2012 biggest failure.
The more you wrote the more credability you lost to the point I have nothing to say.
Exactly. OneMMOVet is probably the least informed person to ever grace the beautiful forums of MMORPG.com. The game is exactly what I've been waiting for, but thank you for trying to put your idiotic words in my mouth.
Someday we'll all look back on the age of computers - and lol.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
I think if anyone believes this game is going to actualy "fail" then they most likely have lost touch with what is going on in the mmo industry.
This game certainly won't fail.
Star Wars fans and people who just "like" star wars will be trying this game.
There is very little about this game that your average man on the street who likes Star Wars won't like.
Average joe person doesnt care about 8 classes or "on rails" space combat.
Average joe person plays games for fun and entertainment and is not looking for some perfect gaming experience.
The problem is that MMO vets, the more enthusiastic SWG players and anyone who has extensive mmo experience and knowledge are having a hard time accepting that this game is not being made for them exclusively.
It's being made for average people. And that is not a cut on your average working man, every man, average "joe". It is a statement that this game is being made for people who are most likely casual players who like star wars. This is not to say they won't have harder content for more experienced players but if the timings on those space missions can be believed then it is more than clear that it is for more casual players or essentially the "every man".
To put it another way, George Lucas just about made most of his money back on the first movie of the Star Wars "prequels" before the movie was ever released just on the marketing rights alone. That movie had a huge amount of people see it and go back for the other two. All on the Star Wars branding alone.
And they weren't amazing movies as compared to the first two ever made. But Star Wars fans didn't care about that. They just wanted to revisit the Star Wars Universe again or experience something new in the Star Wars universe.
EA will market the heck out of it and as long as Bioware can deliver a reasonably stable game and hold up their servers they are going to make a mint.
Regardless of whether experienced and knowledgeable gamers are there or not.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This game wants to beat wow, yet it has a rail shooter space combat?
I completely understand not having a sandbox space sim. Or even Eve or SWG. But what was wrong with a smaller version of Tie Fighter? Small groups doing objectives. PvP could be set up around said objectives. But you would fly around the area as if it was space.
Not this swoop racing in space with shooting.
I'll be playing this game, but it really looks like after the first few times of doing the rail shooter, I'll be bored out of my mind with space. Well, not space, but driving down a road. This doesn't seem like the road to being #1.
"we’re really doing KOTOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12+. We have THAT much content, that many stories, and we really get to do a lot of the things that we wouldn’t have been able to do in KOTOR 3"
You're the one that's misinformed buddy. Like I said, expecting Bioware to completely move away from the format of KOTOR, to the point of putting a fully fleshed out space sim in the game is stupid.
I understand why some people are all wrapped around the axel about this space thing, but myself, I couldn't care less. I played SWG from release to just after NGE and never bothered with JTL. My veiw of the Star Wars saga was that space is a backdrop, not the main part. I also thought that crafting/entertaining was fun, but had F all to do with Star Wars.
So when this game puts up the shingle for collectors edition with the decorative hand towel or whatever, I am jumping in the line. Even if I only get a month or 2 out of it, its the same as buying a reg game (most of them last a heck of a lot less than a full month and cost the same as the box and free month for a mmo).
I doubt I am alone in this. I think anyone suggesting this game is going to completely tank is out of their mind. Successful does not mean 11 million subs. They stated they need 1 mil to break even, I think that is achevable. Will it be the fabled WOW killer, who knows (or cares)? I think a lot of people hope it fails because it is not what they wanted, regardless if its good or not (and I suspect a loarge amount of the haters here and on the official forums will be sneaking off to grab a copy once it releases).
Agreed, the funny thing is that it's not as if the problem is with the inablity of the HeroEngine to emulate space flight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt-Jk3TmodY
So no doubt the issue is more concerned with time, money and resources right now. Which to me suggests that Bioware should remain focused on the main core gameplay and not get sidetracked with "minigames" until such time arises where they can give it their full attention. In the meantime, they should assure people that they WILL implement space interaction that is worthy of the title some time after launch (e.g. the first big content addition after launch). Of course, this implies that they would then have to keep to their word as well.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Yeah .. when compared with WoW Space Content .. wait what ?!?
What difference does it make if Space is on Rails or not. If it plays like Star Fox then HELL YEAH. I love MiniGames , specialy if they are done well.
I want Swoop Racing , Pazaak , some form of Pod Racing ... the more the merrier.
Basically what I know is the more information I am getting from some other upcoming MMOs, the more interested I am in them. The more information I receive from SWTOR, the less interested I am in the game. This can't be a great sign. And yes, before I get a bunch of rage belched at me, I realize there are other opinions out there.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I never compared it to wow space content?
I want swoop racing, pazaak and other mini games. But space combat such as this seems extremely..."ohh...people on forums want space..." sort of space.
This isn't space. Space allows you to move any direction. This is you sitting in a car, shooting at things outside of the car.
This is pretty much Bioware putting us on a rollarcoaster. Except that rollercaster doesn't go upside down or anything. It's like the Kiddy rollercoaster at six flags. Except instead of six flags, it's the county fair. And it has 4 turns. And lasts 15 seconds.
Exci...No, it's not.
Just know that while the rest of us are playing, you won't be missed.
Ya, i've been thinking this for awhile now..
Theres more info to be released of course, but what i have seen so far, hasn't made me say, "I gotta go buy this game..."
This is another somewhat unimpressive bit of info
Scratching this one of my list, I think. As much as I am a huge Star Wars and Bioware fan, to be Star Wars is just as much about space as it is about the stories. The IP would never be where it is today without epic space battles.
This "on-rails" crap is Bioware's half-assed attempt at competing with The Clone Wars Adventures, which is going to have the same "on-rails" space combat. The difference being that TCWA is a F2P game marketed at children and TOR is trying to portray itself as a more serious experience. I would much rather they released a space combat expansion or an addon pack or whatever.
Bioware has stated that they are trying to go the safest route as possible with TOR but I think that it got to a point where it crossed the line from "playing safe" to "wtf?" Some of the decisions, like copying WoW to the T and this "on-rails" nonsense, just don't make any sense. It just makes me wonder if Bioware has lost it's touch? Maybe they should just stick to single-player RPGs? I don't know.
Ahh yes, blind faith.
Choices WON"T have meaning. They will alter the story but the story will end up being meaningless at endgame. Sorry but you cannot have a choice made in the first hour of gameplay determine whether your character can get force lightning. The MMO community will not allow it, it will cause balance issues, and it will take the choice away from people that want force lightning but really like the light side responses. I'd LOVE to have choices matter but the bottom line is that a mainstream MMO cannot do it.
The SWTOR class progression will be terrible. You'll get ot pick an AC and correct me if I'm wrong they've said you'll be able to switch between them making the choice meaningless(getting the theme?). Go take a look at EQ2, Rift, or GW2's planned character progression system. In depth
SWTOR will also not be anymore RPG than WoW. The only major difference is the quests will be hidden behind meaningless dialogue choices and voice overs. Take the get the mutated brain story in SWTOR, it is no different than having a quest text that says "get mutated brain". Same thing just a shinier wrapper.
The major problem with trying to emphasize story in an MMO is that MMO's need to go on potentially forever and 90% of gameplay is at endgame. The end of story is really the begining of endgame. So what's left is an underwhelming loot based WoW clone that will have pigeonholed classes...
Space could have really helped this game out with having something different but they obviously opted out of that in favor of a single player minigame in a multiplayer game.
They are doing a remake I believe for the Xbox 360 maybe a PC remake as well its just a rumor though, that game alone set a standard for all space sims to follow after and it is on PC Gamer's Top 100 Games of All Time.
Blind faith vs Blind hate... I'll take the faith, thanx.
"Over your faith and my glock i choose my glock," sorry had to say that lol.
We go trough life with many yet there is a time we must walk our path alone.
Wow really. The more i hear about swtor the more excited i get. Sure space combat wont be a fps type sim so what. I hear space combat is a very small part anyways. Frankly i dont see space fighter pilot under the classes. While it may be on rails they say u can move up down and side to side so while u are on a basic path there is an ability to move within this path. I personally wanna see some sorta beta testing before i decide this game sucks i dont wanna play it.
Bioware has done a pretty good job with games in the past. Conan is one of those mmorpg everyone says is really good now. Im gonna give bioware and starwars a chance. Just because they are star wars and being a jedi or sith is just that damn cool. Sorry playing a sith or jedi to me far outweight a small part of the game being on rails. If space combat where a huge part of swtor maybe be upset but my understanding is its like a mini game and may e used in one or quests so its very very small part.
That.
As much as I wanted X-Wing vs Tie Fighter, or even rogue squadron, or heck even Battlefront style space combat I knew KNEW it was going to be crap like this when they said "space combat" was going to be "epic".
What happened to Standards? This game is not being built for kids, either add good space or even okay space and not a crappy mini-game that will only wish we had good space combat or don't add it. If blizzard was making World of Starcraft they wouldn't put crap like this in their game.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Dumbing down space combat to a rail shooter is, in long term a bold move. Not only it won't cater the non space fans but it will certainly loose most if not all space sim fans.
First, the players will find pretty soon the rail shooter boring. Every space sim fans knows once you done a mission it gets old very fast. It does not means a rail shooter can't be fun, it simply don't last.
Also don't forget, in the article, BioWare was very clear: they intend players to grind the missions again and again. How so? Didn't they stated players will find missions difficult and so will have to redo them multiple times?
Then why make it, at launch, a single player game, only? Everybody knows many players are expressing concerns about the multiplayer part in TOR.
As many others a thing I don't get is how will they implement a co-op and a PvP version in a tunnel/rail shooter? The only way I see it is they will add a real 3d space sim later on. Now I'm even more lost: why make 2 space simulators in one game, allo? It does not make senses at all.
Another concern are the restrictions: you don't choose your space ship chassis at all... or you choose it but then you don't choose your class.
There's also this other game Clone Wars Adventure, that's going to be available at least 3 months before TOR that will have a tunnel shooter and that will be F2P. Now I really don't understand how TOR marketing team decided to even speak about space "combat" at all.
Finally as I wrote on TOR forums, I do have an issue with BioWare misscommunication issue. They did know players had huge expectations for space sim. First a part of the population didn't want to even hear about it, fine they are making it totally optional. Then, for the space sim fans, not only they did nothing to lower expectations but they also have been rewarded with this:
Uh SW was based off a novel on the stages a hero goes through in his journey to become to person he is. Stages and changes that take place to reach his destination aka luke skywalker turning into the person his father failed to become (only one trilogy you morons). Maybe you all need to do something as simple as read a book instead of just saying whatever you want that isn't true.
Yes there is civil war and all that crap. But that's all filler junk. /facepalm
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Oh brother cry me a river! I wish I had your uncanny ability to see that far ahead. No one here said SWTOR was looking to revolutionize the way we play at endgame. And why would we feel like our characters need to be so glorious that their stories would impact an entire galaxy?
Story telling is one of the oldest forms of entertainment we have. I don't know about you, but I always enjoy a good story. I also enjoyed the main story/quest line from AoC in Tortage. That to me was so interesting that I sat and listened to all of it while playing. I enjoyed the voice-acting and was utterly disappointed when it ended after I left Tortage. So I look foward to to SWTOR's voice-overs and will enjoy following the twist and turns of the plot.
And when it all ends, I can continue playing my character. Hopefully it will be a huge choice to make at the end of the story to support either side in a epic struggle for control of the galaxy that will be fought for years (months in real time) to come.
Other than that. I'm not looking to buck any trends here. At least not with this IP. Leave the innovation to a new IP or BW's next MMO.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
agreed i never expected anything else.. why would someone expect a full fledged flight sim from a company that mosty makes console games? I rather them stick with what they do best and do it well than try to throw something in that just doesnt fit the most of the playstyle of the game they are making
"What I find even more puzzling are the results of the poll attached to the discussion thread on the official forums. The poll asks if users are happy with the news, to which the second most popular response is “Yes.”, with “I need more information” being the top choice.
Who are these people?
Fanboys? Trolls? Who could honestly be happy about this announcement?"
Really? thats a bit dushey and unprofessional for a writer / reporter to say isnt it? I can understand not liking the decision but attacking or namecalling people that do like it is just bad writing, IGN reporting bad, I have seen plenty of well written articles on this site and came to expect better. I can see that being said in the post section but from the writer ? really?
Plus from the starfox comment Starwars has had just as many rail shooter games like the Rogue Squadron series or the fighting in games like Shadows of the Empire as they have had flight sims . So long whatever they do is well done im fine with it
I challenged my reflection to a staring contest....4 days later i won