While all the issues mentioned above may be factors (and you can add bad marketing to that list as well) none touch the core issue. No mainstream MMO can be based arround head to head competition. You simply WILL NOT get 90% of your players to log on day after day to get beaten over and over by the other 10%.
Can you make a niche game like this? Yes but you'd better not spend 100m on it. Can you make a main stream MMO with head to head as a significant component? Again yes but typically the population in these sections is approx 10% of the player base. This is even true of EVE (not counting all of the non-head to head competition that EVE fosters of course).
They r triying to sell a boring gameplay in a hyper shinny game, sounds weird but i prefer the combat from gunz even tho the game sux but still the fights are more exciting and still free, my point is dont try to deceive the costumer with shiny looks when u know that it doesn't worth that price, they did a risky move and lost let see if they have a chance to polish the gameplay
The game was released too early. All of the reasons you list could have been circumvented if they would have listened to their players in beta and took their time to fix the game before they released it, in my opinion. They have EA backing them up, so I'm not sure why they would have run out of money, and EA has launched other games, such as Warhammer Online, too early in the past. Hopefully developers, investors, and publishers learn from this.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
It is amazing that gamers can already tell when a product is going to fail but yet most developers have no clue or refuse to listen and still persist on making the same craptastic stuff. Just goes to show money > quality games today.
I think the two main problems with the game is the wierd pay system which even made me go WTF!
The other one and think the one that would turn off most dedicated MMo'ers is that a game like this being a FPS style would attrack the worst kind of players from the FPS world. I think that there would be an over abundance of "Gansta" wannabies who are out not to play the game or do missions, but kill anything that moves and become a total ass in the game.
This is why most of my friends would not even entertain the idea of playing the game.
Character customization and sound. A lot of people don't mention they had a fully featured music editor in the game, as well as several really great songs by popular artists. The VOIP capabilities were really good too.
I agree, it seems like they blew all their money on these two features and then decided to just push it out the door before the combat and content were addressed fully.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
point 3 sums up everything i thought was wrong with the game
"All the while RTW was trying to cram so many different experiences into APB, it forgot the most important part: the gameplay."
They appeared to have spent 150% of their effort on the customisation and secondary things, The use of VoiP and customisation options were amazing. However they seemed to have forgot they need a game to go with it.
Maybe they should have listened to the empoyees who left to form "Ruffian Games" when they said they wanted to make another a sequel to Crackdown instead of an mmo. While Crackdown 2 wasn't a raging success, Ruffian Games isn't being forced into bankruptcy like their ex-employers.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
This is an absolute shame, and I'll be sorry to see the game go (if it does, i certainly hope not). I decided (very reluctantly ) not to try this game b/c of the payment model. However, I was very gratified to see them do something other than the usual "pay us $15 a month in rent after buying the initial product, oh and here's a cash shop too" mentality.
It looked like somebody else might be looking at options for AAA titles other than the sub fee...that aren't strictly fantasy games (this was me following the game before DDO went ftp) and I was thrilled to see that AreaNet might not have to carry the banner.
I really hope the companies involved can figure something out so APB doesn't just dry up and blow away....
I was in Beta and refused to buy APB because the matchmaking mechanics were pure bullshit. All too often I would be pitted against people who were far better than me and had better gear and I could NOT call for backup? What the hell is that? OR I would be facing way too many people on the other team. They said the matches would even out but too many times they did not. The missions get very repetative and there were a lot of cheap ways to win in some of them. I especially despise the chase missions were they could kill you 3 times and win but most people choose to run away; even when they had more people than you did. APB had potential but failed to impress. I think it will most likely die and someone with more money and a better vision will take up the challenge of a cops and robbers MMO.
The MMO crowd and the shooter crowd are two completely different sets of animals and every game so far that has tried to mix them together has failed. Sooner or later the devs will actually discover this truth for themselves. There have been some good tries but the experiment is a washout; it's time to just admit that these two genres are like oil and water, they just don't mix.
Well, having played (on and off) since launch, it's had some issues.
The character (and vehicle) creation are great - and a continual tease. Have to be level XYZ with a specific contact to get piece X? That gets a little irritating after a while. Moreso when it's a weapon, or an incremental upgrade.
Imbalance. Yeah, this gives everyone fits in pretty much every game - but it's tied into matchmaking. Why should my little reasonably-new Enforcer get sent against a level 70-something buffed-to-the-gills criminal? Or - even worse for a while - get an APB called on him when the rest of my team hasn't even loaded in the zone yet? (since resolved.) No guarantee of evening the odds - you can "call for backup," but it might never get answered, or get answered by Mr. Uber-(your side,) or get answered by two more lowbies that can't do much more than tickle the guy you're facing. (This has been improved lately, but I can't imagine it *didn't* turn off people.) Getting APB'd while you're in a contact screen doesn't help either (I've had that done numerous times - trying to buy and sell or upgrade something, next I know I'm seeing red as I'm getting shot or grenaded.)
Also, pre-recent-patch, four letters. NTEC. Finally brought into line, but some are just... yeah.
Some complained about the driving. I didn't (usually) have to big of an issue with it - besides, it was fun. (So was crashing burning cars into your target and winning via explosion.)
I never felt I was making any real progress in the game, quite honestly. I'd go along doing whatever and suddenly "Oh, you gained a level/unlocked this," without much "why."
Finally, quite bluntly, they never seemed to bother turning on the anti-cheats, even when some of the exploits were very well known. Video of people firing out the side/back of their guns, shooting through walls (not "just off the side") and the like? Dealt with very slowly, if at all, which just added to the frustration (even when admitted to publicly.)
(Oh, don't forget the torturous process of trying to report any of that - sure, RTW said "Tell us!" but made the process so much of a pain it just wasn't worth it. Where's a /report, /exploit, or /spammer command?)
I quite honestly got started in it because of wanting to play something Saints Row-like with a larger group (SRII's multiplayer being two people, and flaky.) When things worked, APB was fun. When you hit some of the broken things - which was not infrequent? Ugh.
Quite a bummer, i was actually just thinking of checking it out.
I do agree with the end of "the list" that it probably did rush to market. So many games in the last two to three years fall into that category. From his descriptions this one fell prey to it even moreso, having too many directions in design/development, so that none of them got fleshed out for the release date.
Games like Age of Conan and Warhammer are prime examples of other games that went to market way too soon, but they werent as lacking, so they are at least able to stick around. Plus having a better known IP helped them i'm sure.
Good luck to RTW - hope they can make APB work in the long run. Hate hearing when another mmo has to close it's doors, even if it's not one i play.
Definitely agree with your 5 points. I tried it in Beta and loved the character customization but the game felt so flat after the first 10 minute running around/driving. I wanted to like it, but didn't catch me. The hype was definitely better than what was released.
Trying to be everything in one game (socializing dress up, MMO, RPG, FPS) ended up with everything done poorly.
I had hoped the game would be good but after about 40 hours or so played I was just so bored. Doing the same thing over and over again with not much change except a different spot ont he same map. I had hoped for some instanced maps where you meet your foes and fight it out in addition to the open world fights. I had hoped for more then just 3 or 4 go break into here or go catch this guy missions. The whole vs. balance is a joke, there is none. I spent many, many hours 1 on 4 or more with my call for back up just flashing with no response. I mean it is just so much fun to be killed over and over by people that out gear you in addition to out numbering you.
Another thing that helped make the choice to get rid of this game is the absolute crap community. I would say that maybe 20% of the people I met were nice, with another 20% that I am sure I did not get to meet being fun people. The 60% that's left were rude, wanna be's. Sure it can be fun to talk smack and I have done my share of it but crap that these punks were doing, saying would get you a nice long conversation with a baseball bat if said in real life.
So a bad community and broken elements with a lack of more things to do is/will kill this game. If that hurts the developing company, well that sucks but ya should have listened to your testers.
The MMO crowd and the shooter crowd are two completely different sets of animals and every game so far that has tried to mix them together has failed. Sooner or later the devs will actually discover this truth for themselves. There have been some good tries but the experiment is a washout; it's time to just admit that these two genres are like oil and water, they just don't mix.
for convenience, i'm just gonna pretend you said that the PVP RPG crowd and the PVP SHOOTER crowd are oil and water and just don't mix well.
i would wholeheartedly agree with that statement. and %99.x of all MMOs are RPGs.
several of the newer military campfest FPS games have added char progression, so apparently quite a few people like THAT part of it......for now at least. will be interesting to see how long the FPS crowd will take before they learn to hate grinding.
there are things fundamental to both game types that are diametrically opposed to the other game type.
like vertical (overall combat power) character progression mixed with PVP as one of the more blatant examples.
however, an immersive virtual world could be (AND WILL be, once devs figure this out) an excellent backdrop for ANY type of gameplay. as long as that gameplay is not castrated by mixing or hybridizing oil & water gameplay types together.
The MMO crowd and the shooter crowd are two completely different sets of animals and every game so far that has tried to mix them together has failed. Sooner or later the devs will actually discover this truth for themselves. There have been some good tries but the experiment is a washout; it's time to just admit that these two genres are like oil and water, they just don't mix.
for convenience, i'm just gonna pretend you said that the MULTIPLAYER RPG crowd and the MULTIPLAYER SHOOTER crowd are oil and water and just don't mix well.
i would wholeheartedly agree with that statement. and %99.x of all MMOs are RPGs.
there are things fundamental to each that are diametrically opposed to the other genre.
like vertical (overall combat power) character progression mixed with PVP as one of the more blatant examples.
however, an immersive virtual world could be (AND WILL be, once devs figure this out) an excellent backdrop for ANY type of gameplay. as long as that gameplay is not castrated by mixing or hybridizing oil & water gameplay genres together.
I would argue that shooters have adopted RPG elements quite well. One look no further than any of the Half-Life series, Fallout 3, or GTA IV for good role playing alongside good shooter style combat mechanics. As far as multiplayer shooters, many of the newer generation shooters have unlocks and character progression, such as Team Fortress 2 and the Call of Duty series.
RPGs have come a long way in terms of adopting shooter elements. Arena and CTF have become very popular PvP scenarios in the MMORPG scene. Also, games such as Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion have very deep combat mechanics that make you aim and block. The MMORPG world has yet to adopt similar mechanics successfully, but being a video game player who loves both shooters and RPGs, I can tell you that the two genres are becoming harder and harder to differentiate, in my opinion.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
APB still isnt dead though. Stil la very real possibility that it'll be sold, or RTW may even be given another chance.
No one here or anyone else can argue that APB has potential pouring out of every orifice, and as RTW is a mere three million pounds (under five millian American) in debt, there is a real chance that someone will snatch APB at bargain price and turn it into a revenue machine.
The MMO crowd and the shooter crowd are two completely different sets of animals and every game so far that has tried to mix them together has failed. Sooner or later the devs will actually discover this truth for themselves. There have been some good tries but the experiment is a washout; it's time to just admit that these two genres are like oil and water, they just don't mix.
for convenience, i'm just gonna pretend you said that the MULTIPLAYER RPG crowd and the MULTIPLAYER SHOOTER crowd are oil and water and just don't mix well.
i would wholeheartedly agree with that statement. and %99.x of all MMOs are RPGs.
there are things fundamental to each that are diametrically opposed to the other genre.
like vertical (overall combat power) character progression mixed with PVP as one of the more blatant examples.
however, an immersive virtual world could be (AND WILL be, once devs figure this out) an excellent backdrop for ANY type of gameplay. as long as that gameplay is not castrated by mixing or hybridizing oil & water gameplay genres together.
I would argue that shooters have adopted RPG elements quite well. One look no further than any of the Half-Life series or Fallout 3. As far as multiplayer, many of the newer generation shooters have unlocks and character progression, such as Team Fortress 2 and the Call of Duty series.
RPGs have come a long way in terms of adopting shooter combat, as seen in games such as Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. The MMORPG world has yet to adopt similar mechanics successfully, but being a video game player who loves both shooters and RPGs, I can tell you they are becoming harder and harder to differentiate in my opinion.
i was trying to be more specific by pre-fixing the genres with MULTIPLAYER, and edited it to be even more specific to saying PVP.
also added the acknowledgement about the char progression added in certain modern shooters. which most people would call HORIZONTAL progression, altho from the bits i've seen, far too much verticality has snuck in (even tho being nothing near as bad as RPG verticality).
while i like to see the RPGs getting more shootery, i DETEST the verticality (no matter how small) that exists in the newer FPS games. and the way it influences people to play for " goals " rather than realizing fun should be your main goal when you have a life and are looking for entertainment.
while these newer shooters may have not fully castrated the FPS gameplay, they have performed surgery on the genitals.
just illustrating that the oil & water thing IS in effect with these hybrids. my opinion clashing with yours.
they had a fully featured music editor in the game
i'd hardly call the music editor fully featured. dont get me wrong, the music editor was one of the most compelling features that drew me to the game. my gripe is the grossly understocked sound library and sfx options that are available. up to this point i grit my teeth, deal with it, and make the best of what is available to me. reason behind that was hope that content would be added down the line after major issues had been addressed. now with a possible grim future ahead of APW, i have one question for RTW: if the game does come down, could you PLEASE implement a download feature allowing players to save custom made song on their local machine? lol, i'd had to lose my songs...
It seems like people are really ignoring the fact that pure PvP MMOs don't tend to do very well... the MMO market doesn't have enough fans of pure PvP to support a game like this.
That, and I agree with Reason # 4-I could never figure out exactly what they were trying to do and what kind of people they were trying to attract.
They should decide one way or another and then do an add campaign that focus's on them. I think they could pull it around ( if EA lets them-not the best MMO makers those EA people).
Comments
i always thought this is a very interesting game ... only thing that kept me from playin is the pay system
Life is a crapy game ...
... but cool graphics
... and ... no trial ... why is there no trial ... ok, buddy key ... but i have no buddy that plays APB
Life is a crapy game ...
... but cool graphics
To op question - nothing
Realtime Worlds financial situation is not directly related to APB .
While all the issues mentioned above may be factors (and you can add bad marketing to that list as well) none touch the core issue. No mainstream MMO can be based arround head to head competition. You simply WILL NOT get 90% of your players to log on day after day to get beaten over and over by the other 10%.
Can you make a niche game like this? Yes but you'd better not spend 100m on it. Can you make a main stream MMO with head to head as a significant component? Again yes but typically the population in these sections is approx 10% of the player base. This is even true of EVE (not counting all of the non-head to head competition that EVE fosters of course).
The game was released too early. All of the reasons you list could have been circumvented if they would have listened to their players in beta and took their time to fix the game before they released it, in my opinion. They have EA backing them up, so I'm not sure why they would have run out of money, and EA has launched other games, such as Warhammer Online, too early in the past. Hopefully developers, investors, and publishers learn from this.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
It is amazing that gamers can already tell when a product is going to fail but yet most developers have no clue or refuse to listen and still persist on making the same craptastic stuff. Just goes to show money > quality games today.
I think the two main problems with the game is the wierd pay system which even made me go WTF!
The other one and think the one that would turn off most dedicated MMo'ers is that a game like this being a FPS style would attrack the worst kind of players from the FPS world. I think that there would be an over abundance of "Gansta" wannabies who are out not to play the game or do missions, but kill anything that moves and become a total ass in the game.
This is why most of my friends would not even entertain the idea of playing the game.
Character customization and sound. A lot of people don't mention they had a fully featured music editor in the game, as well as several really great songs by popular artists. The VOIP capabilities were really good too.
I agree, it seems like they blew all their money on these two features and then decided to just push it out the door before the combat and content were addressed fully.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
point 3 sums up everything i thought was wrong with the game
"All the while RTW was trying to cram so many different experiences into APB, it forgot the most important part: the gameplay."
They appeared to have spent 150% of their effort on the customisation and secondary things, The use of VoiP and customisation options were amazing. However they seemed to have forgot they need a game to go with it.
YES I AM so glad that that peice of garbage game is going under, that's what you get when you let punks make games
Maybe they should have listened to the empoyees who left to form "Ruffian Games" when they said they wanted to make another a sequel to Crackdown instead of an mmo. While Crackdown 2 wasn't a raging success, Ruffian Games isn't being forced into bankruptcy like their ex-employers.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
This is an absolute shame, and I'll be sorry to see the game go (if it does, i certainly hope not). I decided (very reluctantly ) not to try this game b/c of the payment model. However, I was very gratified to see them do something other than the usual "pay us $15 a month in rent after buying the initial product, oh and here's a cash shop too" mentality.
It looked like somebody else might be looking at options for AAA titles other than the sub fee...that aren't strictly fantasy games (this was me following the game before DDO went ftp) and I was thrilled to see that AreaNet might not have to carry the banner.
I really hope the companies involved can figure something out so APB doesn't just dry up and blow away....
I was in Beta and refused to buy APB because the matchmaking mechanics were pure bullshit. All too often I would be pitted against people who were far better than me and had better gear and I could NOT call for backup? What the hell is that? OR I would be facing way too many people on the other team. They said the matches would even out but too many times they did not. The missions get very repetative and there were a lot of cheap ways to win in some of them. I especially despise the chase missions were they could kill you 3 times and win but most people choose to run away; even when they had more people than you did. APB had potential but failed to impress. I think it will most likely die and someone with more money and a better vision will take up the challenge of a cops and robbers MMO.
The MMO crowd and the shooter crowd are two completely different sets of animals and every game so far that has tried to mix them together has failed. Sooner or later the devs will actually discover this truth for themselves. There have been some good tries but the experiment is a washout; it's time to just admit that these two genres are like oil and water, they just don't mix.
Well, having played (on and off) since launch, it's had some issues.
The character (and vehicle) creation are great - and a continual tease. Have to be level XYZ with a specific contact to get piece X? That gets a little irritating after a while. Moreso when it's a weapon, or an incremental upgrade.
Imbalance. Yeah, this gives everyone fits in pretty much every game - but it's tied into matchmaking. Why should my little reasonably-new Enforcer get sent against a level 70-something buffed-to-the-gills criminal? Or - even worse for a while - get an APB called on him when the rest of my team hasn't even loaded in the zone yet? (since resolved.) No guarantee of evening the odds - you can "call for backup," but it might never get answered, or get answered by Mr. Uber-(your side,) or get answered by two more lowbies that can't do much more than tickle the guy you're facing. (This has been improved lately, but I can't imagine it *didn't* turn off people.) Getting APB'd while you're in a contact screen doesn't help either (I've had that done numerous times - trying to buy and sell or upgrade something, next I know I'm seeing red as I'm getting shot or grenaded.)
Also, pre-recent-patch, four letters. NTEC. Finally brought into line, but some are just... yeah.
Some complained about the driving. I didn't (usually) have to big of an issue with it - besides, it was fun. (So was crashing burning cars into your target and winning via explosion.)
I never felt I was making any real progress in the game, quite honestly. I'd go along doing whatever and suddenly "Oh, you gained a level/unlocked this," without much "why."
Finally, quite bluntly, they never seemed to bother turning on the anti-cheats, even when some of the exploits were very well known. Video of people firing out the side/back of their guns, shooting through walls (not "just off the side") and the like? Dealt with very slowly, if at all, which just added to the frustration (even when admitted to publicly.)
(Oh, don't forget the torturous process of trying to report any of that - sure, RTW said "Tell us!" but made the process so much of a pain it just wasn't worth it. Where's a /report, /exploit, or /spammer command?)
I quite honestly got started in it because of wanting to play something Saints Row-like with a larger group (SRII's multiplayer being two people, and flaky.) When things worked, APB was fun. When you hit some of the broken things - which was not infrequent? Ugh.
Quite a bummer, i was actually just thinking of checking it out.
I do agree with the end of "the list" that it probably did rush to market. So many games in the last two to three years fall into that category. From his descriptions this one fell prey to it even moreso, having too many directions in design/development, so that none of them got fleshed out for the release date.
Games like Age of Conan and Warhammer are prime examples of other games that went to market way too soon, but they werent as lacking, so they are at least able to stick around. Plus having a better known IP helped them i'm sure.
Good luck to RTW - hope they can make APB work in the long run. Hate hearing when another mmo has to close it's doors, even if it's not one i play.
Definitely agree with your 5 points. I tried it in Beta and loved the character customization but the game felt so flat after the first 10 minute running around/driving. I wanted to like it, but didn't catch me. The hype was definitely better than what was released.
Trying to be everything in one game (socializing dress up, MMO, RPG, FPS) ended up with everything done poorly.
Proud member of Hammerfist Clan Gaming Community.
Currently playing: RIFT, EQ2, WoW, LoTRO
Retired: Warhammer, AoC, EQ
Waiting: SWToR & GW2
I had hoped the game would be good but after about 40 hours or so played I was just so bored. Doing the same thing over and over again with not much change except a different spot ont he same map. I had hoped for some instanced maps where you meet your foes and fight it out in addition to the open world fights. I had hoped for more then just 3 or 4 go break into here or go catch this guy missions. The whole vs. balance is a joke, there is none. I spent many, many hours 1 on 4 or more with my call for back up just flashing with no response. I mean it is just so much fun to be killed over and over by people that out gear you in addition to out numbering you.
Another thing that helped make the choice to get rid of this game is the absolute crap community. I would say that maybe 20% of the people I met were nice, with another 20% that I am sure I did not get to meet being fun people. The 60% that's left were rude, wanna be's. Sure it can be fun to talk smack and I have done my share of it but crap that these punks were doing, saying would get you a nice long conversation with a baseball bat if said in real life.
So a bad community and broken elements with a lack of more things to do is/will kill this game. If that hurts the developing company, well that sucks but ya should have listened to your testers.
for convenience, i'm just gonna pretend you said that the PVP RPG crowd and the PVP SHOOTER crowd are oil and water and just don't mix well.
i would wholeheartedly agree with that statement. and %99.x of all MMOs are RPGs.
several of the newer military campfest FPS games have added char progression, so apparently quite a few people like THAT part of it......for now at least. will be interesting to see how long the FPS crowd will take before they learn to hate grinding.
there are things fundamental to both game types that are diametrically opposed to the other game type.
like vertical (overall combat power) character progression mixed with PVP as one of the more blatant examples.
however, an immersive virtual world could be (AND WILL be, once devs figure this out) an excellent backdrop for ANY type of gameplay. as long as that gameplay is not castrated by mixing or hybridizing oil & water gameplay types together.
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Corpus Callosum
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I would argue that shooters have adopted RPG elements quite well. One look no further than any of the Half-Life series, Fallout 3, or GTA IV for good role playing alongside good shooter style combat mechanics. As far as multiplayer shooters, many of the newer generation shooters have unlocks and character progression, such as Team Fortress 2 and the Call of Duty series.
RPGs have come a long way in terms of adopting shooter elements. Arena and CTF have become very popular PvP scenarios in the MMORPG scene. Also, games such as Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion have very deep combat mechanics that make you aim and block. The MMORPG world has yet to adopt similar mechanics successfully, but being a video game player who loves both shooters and RPGs, I can tell you that the two genres are becoming harder and harder to differentiate, in my opinion.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
APB still isnt dead though. Stil la very real possibility that it'll be sold, or RTW may even be given another chance.
No one here or anyone else can argue that APB has potential pouring out of every orifice, and as RTW is a mere three million pounds (under five millian American) in debt, there is a real chance that someone will snatch APB at bargain price and turn it into a revenue machine.
i was trying to be more specific by pre-fixing the genres with MULTIPLAYER, and edited it to be even more specific to saying PVP.
also added the acknowledgement about the char progression added in certain modern shooters. which most people would call HORIZONTAL progression, altho from the bits i've seen, far too much verticality has snuck in (even tho being nothing near as bad as RPG verticality).
while i like to see the RPGs getting more shootery, i DETEST the verticality (no matter how small) that exists in the newer FPS games. and the way it influences people to play for " goals " rather than realizing fun should be your main goal when you have a life and are looking for entertainment.
while these newer shooters may have not fully castrated the FPS gameplay, they have performed surgery on the genitals.
just illustrating that the oil & water thing IS in effect with these hybrids. my opinion clashing with yours.
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Corpus Callosum
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<a href="http://www.enjin.com/"; alt="guild hosting"><img src="http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxiv/29734_e07e81c20cf5935f.png"></a>;
That, and I agree with Reason # 4-I could never figure out exactly what they were trying to do and what kind of people they were trying to attract.
They should decide one way or another and then do an add campaign that focus's on them. I think they could pull it around ( if EA lets them-not the best MMO makers those EA people).