Questions remain whether the timers start while you're logged in game or when you're actually fighting something (active mode). Either way, it's a case of "daddy's knows best." For some people, that's a little arrogant when the point of this game is to make money. Pissing people off and dictating what they can and can't do is a bad way to make money.
It isn't a case of " daddy knows best ". They specifically stated it was done to keep players on a level playing field.
" First off, the main concept behind FFXIV is allowing those players with little time on their hands to play effectively, and game balance is based off of that. Furthermore, it is being designed to not give those with more time on their hands to play an unfair advantage. "
I don't disagree or agree with that concept, but it is a unique concept to balance based on time.
"People are so stuck in vertical progression (quantitative) that they freak at the sight of horizontal progression (qualitative)?
I don't know how much I like this system, but some people are missing the point. Same way they were missing the point about jumping and swimming. SE creates the ground rules. They create the FFXIV universe. In that regard, it's like the Matrix.
No other mmo (modernly) places a cap on xp, they usually just give bonus xp to casuals. But, SE wants to create a game where one of the fundamental rules is capping progression. The game is specifically designed where YOU HAVE TO USE OTHER CLASSES. You will not be able to complete content unless you have abilities from multiple classes. Other mmos, it's the exact opposite. Each class is a self contained whole.
Soooo.. people are comparing apples and oranges. Yes other mmo's allow you to play each class the way you want and for how long. But dont' forget the fact that you're playing ONE CLASS. In FFXIV, you're playing ONE CHARACTER. SE is designing a game where you "forced" to horizontally progress your CHARACTER, instead of a specific class, by putting limitations.
The mistake has always been thinking that you are your class. No No No, you are your CHARACTER which is a combination of different classes. To make this vision work, I guess they feel the need to compel people to use other classes.
I'm sure there are a million reasons (no end game content, buying time for PS3 release, preventing reaching level cap in 1 month, etc.).
Make no mistake, switching classes early and often is something that SE wants to make part and parcel of the game. They are saying to potential subscribers "HEY, GET READY TO BE PLAYING MULTIPLE CLASSES DURING THE WEEK. NOT ONLY THAT, WE'RE GOING TO FORCE YOU TO DO IT!" It's sad, but i'm having a tough time getting really angry about it. IT's like, i know the ground rules, the only thing left is, "are you in or are you out?"
I could never have explained myself better than this.100% genious.This is exactly how i feel.
One of the best posts about this subject to date, and it is absolutely spot on.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
i dont get why people are saying you start off with 200% exp for first 8 hours and after 7 more hours it go back to 100%
the first post CLEARLY said you start off 100% for first 8 hours and after 7 hours u get 0% exp
to people who sayying surplus is bonus exp, they are blind
also to people saying ffxiv developler wants use to switch classes often, they NEED TO take away the timer needed to switch our stats! noone want a melee dps stat caster! let alone tanks that need specific stats to dodge and stuff. its just a flaw system and look even worse combine with the surplus exp thingy
The wording of the official statement did them in. If they had said that every 7 days you will have 8 hours of 2Xs XP and THEN 7 more hours of better than 100% XP, people would have screamed for joy.
The way it came out now folks are arguing about 100% being 52% (half-full anyone?). It all amounts to the same thing. Some folks will bull through a single class and some will switch to gain the max of the bonus.
I am looking forward to the game (other than the lack of mouse driven movement).
The wording of the official statement did them in. If they had said that every 7 days you will have 8 hours of 2Xs XP and THEN 7 more hours of better than 100% XP, people would have screamed for joy.
The way it came out now folks are arguing about 100% being 52% (half-full anyone?). It all amounts to the same thing. Some folks will bull through a single class and some will switch to gain the max of the bonus.
I am looking forward to the game (other than the lack of mouse driven movement).
"Within the first eight hours of play, you can earn 100% experience. The seven hour period following will see your possible experience gradually approach zero.
This system is on a weekly timer. After a week has passed since you began skilling that particular weapon, the timer will reset. It will start anew when you skill up again."
OMG YOU ARE BLIND, where is the 2x exp u dreaming about, please wake up
"People are so stuck in vertical progression (quantitative) that they freak at the sight of horizontal progression (qualitative)?
I don't know how much I like this system, but some people are missing the point. Same way they were missing the point about jumping and swimming. SE creates the ground rules. They create the FFXIV universe. In that regard, it's like the Matrix.
No other mmo (modernly) places a cap on xp, they usually just give bonus xp to casuals. But, SE wants to create a game where one of the fundamental rules is capping progression. The game is specifically designed where YOU HAVE TO USE OTHER CLASSES. You will not be able to complete content unless you have abilities from multiple classes. Other mmos, it's the exact opposite. Each class is a self contained whole.
Soooo.. people are comparing apples and oranges. Yes other mmo's allow you to play each class the way you want and for how long. But dont' forget the fact that you're playing ONE CLASS. In FFXIV, you're playing ONE CHARACTER. SE is designing a game where you "forced" to horizontally progress your CHARACTER, instead of a specific class, by putting limitations.
The mistake has always been thinking that you are your class. No No No, you are your CHARACTER which is a combination of different classes. To make this vision work, I guess they feel the need to compel people to use other classes.
I'm sure there are a million reasons (no end game content, buying time for PS3 release, preventing reaching level cap in 1 month, etc.).
Make no mistake, switching classes early and often is something that SE wants to make part and parcel of the game. They are saying to potential subscribers "HEY, GET READY TO BE PLAYING MULTIPLE CLASSES DURING THE WEEK. NOT ONLY THAT, WE'RE GOING TO FORCE YOU TO DO IT!" It's sad, but i'm having a tough time getting really angry about it. IT's like, i know the ground rules, the only thing left is, "are you in or are you out?"
I could never have explained myself better than this.100% genious.This is exactly how i feel.
One of the best posts about this subject to date, and it is absolutely spot on.
I dont mind be forced to play multiple classes ut after that 15hours when i stop getting exp , what is the reward for continued play? What progress can be made during that time?
I dont mind be forced to play multiple classes ut after that 15hours when i stop getting exp , what is the reward for continued play? What progress can be made during that time?
When you switch classes, the Surplus is removed. You can get skill points for that new class you're playing, thus getting higher level and more/different skills.
When next week rolls around, you can use the skills you obtained from the new class you leveled with the class you shelved for a weak because it had surplus state.
That's the point of horizontal progression. Your main class didn't get higher class rank or you getting higher physical level, but it did get few new skills from a class you would not have leveled otherwise.
The wording of the official statement did them in. If they had said that every 7 days you will have 8 hours of 2Xs XP and THEN 7 more hours of better than 100% XP, people would have screamed for joy.
The way it came out now folks are arguing about 100% being 52% (half-full anyone?). It all amounts to the same thing. Some folks will bull through a single class and some will switch to gain the max of the bonus.
I am looking forward to the game (other than the lack of mouse driven movement).
Uhm... what? Yes, they could word their site like that, but it would be a lie. Yes, they could fudge the numbers so that they can produce appealing looking %s, however they are not. So it doesn't amount to the same thing. It's taking a grind, and capping it to make it last longer.
Honestly, the more I find out about this system, the less I like it. What astonishes me, is how blatant this system seems to be a method of postponing content. I hope I'm wrong, and come open beta (in 2 weeks? I think it is now), we will see the amount of content we've been waiting for. However, to charge a subscription for a game, and then implementing a feature that deliberately prevents you from enjoying the content how you want to; I'm amazed at the number of people that are eating this news up with a smile. It's also no wonder subscription-based games are having such a hard time right now, with things like this going on. I'd rather them take their time to release the game how it should be, then to release it now with this kind of system in place.
I'd really like to play this game, but I'm forced to hold off on that commitment until I see if they have any plans of retracting or modifying this system. There's a number of MMOs around the corner that either don't have a sub, or are not limiting your ability to experience their content. As much as I enjoyed FFXI and FF games in general, at some point you need to take the fanboy hat off and question "is it worth it?".
I dont mind be forced to play multiple classes ut after that 15hours when i stop getting exp , what is the reward for continued play? What progress can be made during that time?
I have a question on your comment. When I play CoH, and I'm designing my Supergroup base for, oh 5 hours, I'm not gaining any XP at all, should i stop doing this? Or when I'm in WoW, swapping between all my bank alts organizing the guild banks, emptying my mailboxes, restocking the AH, I'm not gainign any XP there either, should I stop that too? When I'm in LoTRO, and I'm cleaning out the Kinship chests and crafting gear for the lower levels, I'm not gaining xp on that, does this mean shouldn't do this either? Or if I'm hanging out in Champions Online holding a costume contest and meeting new people I'm not making xp there either, is this another thing I should just stop doing? I could go on and on, but I think you get my point.
What I want to know is, don't you do anything in an MMO besides continuous grind with only one purpose, to gain XP? If that in in fact true, why exactly do you play an MMO in the first place, why not just grab a single player PC RPG and grind your XP out?
Not saying anything about the Surplus or Fatigue systems here which they already stated they are modifying and tweaking. What I am quesitoning is all the people here who are going on about how they wont play an MMO if they aren't gaining XP for every action they do. My contention is that you already do, but your just so focused on this one issue that you fail to realize it. Or am I wrong here when I see an MMO as more than a mathmatical calculation to gain maximum xp/minute in order to optimize your characters progressing to said end game content?
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I dont mind be forced to play multiple classes ut after that 15hours when i stop getting exp , what is the reward for continued play? What progress can be made during that time?
I have a question on your comment. When I play CoH, and I'm designing my Supergroup base for, oh 5 hours, I'm not gaining any XP at all, should i stop doing this? Or when I'm in WoW, swapping between all my bank alts organizing the guild banks, emptying my mailboxes, restocking the AH, I'm not gainign any XP there either, should I stop that too? When I'm in LoTRO, and I'm cleaning out the Kinship chests and crafting gear for the lower levels, I'm not gaining xp on that, does this mean shouldn't do this either? Or if I'm hanging out in Champions Online holding a costume contest and meeting new people I'm not making xp there either, is this another thing I should just stop doing? I could go on and on, but I think you get my point.
What I want to know is, don't you do anything in an MMO besides continuous grind with only one purpose, to gain XP? If that in in fact true, why exactly do you play an MMO in the first place, why not just grab a single player PC RPG and grind your XP out?
Not saying anything about the Surplus or Fatigue systems here which they already stated they are modifying and tweaking. What I am quesitoning is all the people here who are going on about how they wont play an MMO if they aren't gaining XP for every action they do. My contention is that you already do, but your just so focused on this one issue that you fail to realize it. Or am I wrong here when I see an MMO as more than a mathmatical calculation to gain maximum xp/minute in order to optimize your characters progressing to said end game content?
well let me ask you a question in return. If after that initial 15hours all you were allowed to do was is shuffle the contents of your bags or rearrange furniture for the other 153 hours of that week would you consider your time and money well spent?
I do not do indepth research on games, for me that ruins the adventure. Now that I know that my time playing after that 15hours will still offer me advancment if not in the form of exp then in the form of skills; Im ok with that.
Another question. What if any kind of cap on skill gain is there?
Canceled my Pre-Order... Looks like Guild Wars 2 for me... I will not be punished for wanting to play a game I pay monthly for? I pay for 30 Days... I will get my 30 days.... I won't be told, Oh well you pay for 30 days but you only get 7.
Its like trading a Dollar for a 50cents... Its unfair and its stupid and SE has went mad if they think this is a good Idea. If this feature sticks to realese I would put money that it will fail and be shut down in a year.
I understand that they want me too try other classes... I'm a Black Magic user I always use Black Magic and I never have a want or need to play any other class then a Magic User. I should choose how I want to play not be told how I HAVE to play.... SE go screw yourself.
Also If you choose to run around and do Craft/Bag/AH, and other nonsense thats your choose. I should not be told well you can't level anymore go make somthing, or go arrange your bags. I decicde when I want to do those things it like SE is trying to force you too do things that people don't want too do. I will arrange my bags when I'm waiting for a party. I will do my AH stuff before a raid. I will do Crafting/Gathering on MY Day off......
So, they choose to penalize one group to be fair to another instead of giving perks to the unfortunate group to bring them up to the other group. Nice...real nice.
This game has too many limits.
Limits on Guildleves you can take (yea, yea you can group but what if I have trouble finding a group etc?)
Limits on leveling
So, if I've maxed my exp for the week and I can't find a leve group, what am I supposed to do?
I think it's beyond ridiculous that people would change their position on this just because it went from "oh, it's less experience as a penalty for playing too much and to punish singleclassing!" to "oh, it's more experience as a bonus for not playing much and to reward multiclassing!" If it works they way people are interpreting, it really is exactly the same as it was before this announcement — except for the overall leveling speed, which is relative to the level cap and exp per level (currently unknown) — and it's kind of sickening that people are so math-illiterate that they think there's a difference.
But aside from that, I'm just confused at why people are interpreting it that way at all. The translated statement says in very plain language that you go down from 100% to 0% over the course of hours 8 to 15. Where in the world are people getting the idea that you go from a 100% bonus down to a 0% bonus?
I am strongly against the idea that this is based on a time limit. Don't rested exp systems generally work off of the amount of experience you gain? As in, the next 20,000 experience you earn will double to 40,000. By having it work off of a time limit instead, they're actually widening the gap between focused efficient players and less-focused players who are interested in side quests, experimentation, and goofing off. The more efficient you are during those 8 hours, the more you pull ahead of people who don't know exactly what to do and where to go. It encourages people to be elitist about who they'll group with if they know that this day is the only day of the week they can make meaningful progress on their class of choice.
I'm really hoping that this is just a bad translation and that you're not seriously limited to 15 hours (effectively 11 and a half hours if you take the integral) of experience per class per week. In terms of the amount of time that I have to play per day, I would be classified as casual and it does not meaningfully affect me. But it would be extraordinarily bad for the game as a whole.
I think it's beyond ridiculous that people would change their position on this just because it went from "oh, it's less experience as a penalty for playing too much and to punish singleclassing!" to "oh, it's more experience as a bonus for not playing much and to reward multiclassing!" If it works they way people are interpreting, it really is exactly the same as it was before this announcement — except for the overall leveling speed, which is relative to the level cap and exp per level (currently unknown) — and it's kind of sickening that people are so math-illiterate that they think there's a difference.
But aside from that, I'm just confused at why people are interpreting it that way at all. The translated statement says in very plain language that you go down from 100% to 0% over the course of hours 8 to 15. Where in the world are people getting the idea that you go from a 100% bonus down to a 0% bonus?
I am strongly against the idea that this is based on a time limit. Don't rested exp systems generally work off of the amount of experience you gain? As in, the next 20,000 experience you earn will double to 40,000. By having it work off of a time limit instead, they're actually widening the gap between focused efficient players and less-focused players who are interested in side quests, experimentation, and goofing off. The more efficient you are during those 8 hours, the more you pull ahead of people who don't know exactly what to do and where to go. It encourages people to be elitist about who they'll group with if they know that this day is the only day of the week they can make meaningful progress on their class of choice.
I'm really hoping that this is just a bad translation and that you're not seriously limited to 15 hours (effectively 11 and a half hours if you take the integral) of experience per class per week. In terms of the amount of time that I have to play per day, I would be classified as casual and it does not meaningfully affect me. But it would be extraordinarily bad for the game as a whole.
To achieve this balance, the amount of possible skill/experience points earned after a certain period of time has a threshold. Think of it as real-life “fatigue” from working at improving your skills via battle *(aka. No one could train ad nauseam in the real world with no ill effects).
Within the first eight hours of play, you can earn 100% experience. The seven hour period following will see your possible experience gradually approach zero.
This system is on a weekly timer. After a week has passed since you began skilling that particular weapon, the timer will reset. It will start anew when you skill up again.
thats from the official response.
its says experience not BONUS experience.
..wait this says skill/experiance points BOTH have a limit. that sounds to me like after the 15hours i will NOT be able to advance skills either....
I think it's beyond ridiculous that people would change their position on this just because it went from "oh, it's less experience as a penalty for playing too much and to punish singleclassing!" to "oh, it's more experience as a bonus for not playing much and to reward multiclassing!" If it works they way people are interpreting, it really is exactly the same as it was before this announcement — except for the overall leveling speed, which is relative to the level cap and exp per level (currently unknown) — and it's kind of sickening that people are so math-illiterate that they think there's a difference.
But aside from that, I'm just confused at why people are interpreting it that way at all. The translated statement says in very plain language that you go down from 100% to 0% over the course of hours 8 to 15. Where in the world are people getting the idea that you go from a 100% bonus down to a 0% bonus?
I am strongly against the idea that this is based on a time limit. Don't rested exp systems generally work off of the amount of experience you gain? As in, the next 20,000 experience you earn will double to 40,000. By having it work off of a time limit instead, they're actually widening the gap between focused efficient players and less-focused players who are interested in side quests, experimentation, and goofing off. The more efficient you are during those 8 hours, the more you pull ahead of people who don't know exactly what to do and where to go. It encourages people to be elitist about who they'll group with if they know that this day is the only day of the week they can make meaningful progress on their class of choice.
I'm really hoping that this is just a bad translation and that you're not seriously limited to 15 hours (effectively 11 and a half hours if you take the integral) of experience per class per week. In terms of the amount of time that I have to play per day, I would be classified as casual and it does not meaningfully affect me. But it would be extraordinarily bad for the game as a whole.
Problem is a hardcore player will switch classes to maximize their favorite class's potental, no need to force it, this system also makes it so its near impossible to ever catch up to someone who's even started only a week or 2 ahead of you(aka the eve online syndrome). Its a dumb unneeded system and I hope to god they scrap it, because I bet alot of people whop buy the game off the shelf will be pretty pissed off when they find out about it.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words." -Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Problem is a hardcore player will switch classes to maximize their favorite class's potental, no need to force it, this system also makes it so its near impossible to ever catch up to someone who's even started only a week or 2 ahead of you(aka the eve online syndrome). Its a dumb unneeded system and I hope to god they scrap it, because I bet alot of people whop buy the game off the shelf will be pretty pissed off when they find out about it.
Well they will obviously decrease the amount of exp gained for people who have subscribed longer to be fair to those that start playing the game later.
I think it's beyond ridiculous that people would change their position on this just because it went from "oh, it's less experience as a penalty for playing too much and to punish singleclassing!" to "oh, it's more experience as a bonus for not playing much and to reward multiclassing!" If it works they way people are interpreting, it really is exactly the same as it was before this announcement — except for the overall leveling speed, which is relative to the level cap and exp per level (currently unknown) — and it's kind of sickening that people are so math-illiterate that they think there's a difference.
But aside from that, I'm just confused at why people are interpreting it that way at all. The translated statement says in very plain language that you go down from 100% to 0% over the course of hours 8 to 15. Where in the world are people getting the idea that you go from a 100% bonus down to a 0% bonus?
I am strongly against the idea that this is based on a time limit. Don't rested exp systems generally work off of the amount of experience you gain? As in, the next 20,000 experience you earn will double to 40,000. By having it work off of a time limit instead, they're actually widening the gap between focused efficient players and less-focused players who are interested in side quests, experimentation, and goofing off. The more efficient you are during those 8 hours, the more you pull ahead of people who don't know exactly what to do and where to go. It encourages people to be elitist about who they'll group with if they know that this day is the only day of the week they can make meaningful progress on their class of choice.
I'm really hoping that this is just a bad translation and that you're not seriously limited to 15 hours (effectively 11 and a half hours if you take the integral) of experience per class per week. In terms of the amount of time that I have to play per day, I would be classified as casual and it does not meaningfully affect me. But it would be extraordinarily bad for the game as a whole.
It's like that social experiment when you have 8 people in a room. 7 people know it's an expirement and smoke starts coming into the room. So they all sit still and quiet. Will the 8th person move. No not until an absurd amount of time has passed :-)
Not having played ffxi is multiclassing something that's an essential part of playing say end-game? If not then it's even more absurd.
8 - 15 hrs: The experience earned approaches zero.
Class Experience
0 - 8 hrs: 100% experience earned
8 - 15 hrs: The experience earned approaches zero.
Class timers are independent.
I don't really know if this is a good or a bad thing. It would be nice if SE offered multiple character slots with the basic subscription.
Thank you, I was going crazy trying to figure out how some people were getting the 200% theory from reading that post by the SquareEnix dev. I came to the same conclusion as you.
Basically, your character and class levels are capped at 15 hours every week, though you can try to cap as many classes as you want. Everyone starting at the same time playing for 15 hours every week should have similar character levels, varying on how efficient they are in combat. Class levels depend on how much additional you play.
Surplus is nothing more than the count of xp that ISN'T counted towards your levels. It's there as a gauge so you know when or if you want to stop.
I agree with him, if the only information available is from the new link posted by the OP.
Honestly if this game was free to play I'd not care, but in a pay to play mmorpg, having a limit on how long you can play is just fail
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words." -Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
I dont mind be forced to play multiple classes ut after that 15hours when i stop getting exp , what is the reward for continued play? What progress can be made during that time?
I have a question on your comment. When I play CoH, and I'm designing my Supergroup base for, oh 5 hours, I'm not gaining any XP at all, should i stop doing this? Or when I'm in WoW, swapping between all my bank alts organizing the guild banks, emptying my mailboxes, restocking the AH, I'm not gainign any XP there either, should I stop that too? When I'm in LoTRO, and I'm cleaning out the Kinship chests and crafting gear for the lower levels, I'm not gaining xp on that, does this mean shouldn't do this either? Or if I'm hanging out in Champions Online holding a costume contest and meeting new people I'm not making xp there either, is this another thing I should just stop doing? I could go on and on, but I think you get my point.
What I want to know is, don't you do anything in an MMO besides continuous grind with only one purpose, to gain XP? If that in in fact true, why exactly do you play an MMO in the first place, why not just grab a single player PC RPG and grind your XP out?
Not saying anything about the Surplus or Fatigue systems here which they already stated they are modifying and tweaking. What I am quesitoning is all the people here who are going on about how they wont play an MMO if they aren't gaining XP for every action they do. My contention is that you already do, but your just so focused on this one issue that you fail to realize it. Or am I wrong here when I see an MMO as more than a mathmatical calculation to gain maximum xp/minute in order to optimize your characters progressing to said end game content?
well let me ask you a question in return. If after that initial 15hours all you were allowed to do was is shuffle the contents of your bags or rearrange furniture for the other 153 hours of that week would you consider your time and money well spent?
I do not do indepth research on games, for me that ruins the adventure. Now that I know that my time playing after that 15hours will still offer me advancment if not in the form of exp then in the form of skills; Im ok with that.
Honestly, probably would still concider my time well spent as long as I'm still enjoying the experience yes. If the world is rich in life, I'm enjoying what I'm doing and loving the exploration/content, then yes - no xp sounds just fine with me. I dont play any game with advancement in mind, I play games for the enjoyment/entertainment factor first. If I'm having fun fishing for 10 hours straight, even with no advancement in skill/level, but I'm still collecting fish to use tomorrow and cook some food, hell I'm having fun so sure.
Even in real life, if you have the option of calling the Italian place down the road for a delivered of lasagna or taking a couple hours to go shopping for all the stuff at the local farmers market and making it yourself, which do you chose? Well you chose the one that you enjoy doing of course. Why should your entertainment be any different? Why make the gaming experience into a competition or job, whats the point.
Now that being said, I will conceed that if it limits to only 15 hours of play a week, then that is a bit extreme and its a good thing SE has already stated they are planning on working to modify that. I know many people who play more than that and if this limit is overall than it will hinder many who shouldnt' be. If its only if your in one class, but it goes away when you switch, then I doubt even they will be effected much by it. I dont know anyone who mindlessly grinds for 15 hours straight without doing anything else in an MMO. Maybe yuo do, but I haven't met them yet. The people I play MMOs with actually play the character for the sake of playing the character, its an advaneture to them, be it solo, grouping, or raiding.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Not having played ffxi is multiclassing something that's an essential part of playing say end-game? If not then it's even more absurd.
In FFXI, throughout the whole game a small amount of multiclassing gives you a huge benefit — huge enough that the "choice" to never multiclass is about as viable as the "choice" to not wear any armor — and any more than that just gives you more options. Whatever level your main job is, you have to level another compatible job to half that level and equip it as your subjob. So as a level 38 Monk, you ought to have your Warrior job up to at least 19. Having it higher than that doesn't give you any additional benefit. Having other jobs levelled up doesn't give you any additional benefit (other than the option of using something else as your subjob). At endgame, someone who has levelled all of the jobs to max level will have the benefit of being able to switch over to any role that is needed, but when they switch to Monk/Warrior they have no benefit over someone who has only leveled Monk and Warrior.
You are reading into this wrong. Your surplus experience drops to 0% after a certain amount of time but you still gain normal experience at 100%. They are not penalizing you for playing, they are rewarding you for playing more than one class. You can play one class all the time you just won't get the bonus experience. Hope this clears this up.
I don't think that's correct, or at least don't understand how it can be.
For one thing, in the official explanation, they specifically indicate your xp gain is 100% for 8 hours, and then peeters off to 0 for the remaining 7.
Plus, in Beta, people were reporting their actual XP gain dropping way down... I'm talking actual xp gain that goes toward their class. Not surplus xp gain.
It's not like youd' normally be getting 100 xp per mob, but with Surplus you're getting 150 until it runs out, then you're back to the base 100. You're starting at 100 for 8 hours and then slowly decreasing down to 0.
Where does it explain that only your surplus xp decreases?
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Going with the theory you recieve 0% exp/sp after 15 hours, there is still a question i've yet to see an answer to:
Quoted from the recent statement:
"Any experience earned past that point is saved as “surplus.” There is surplus for each class, and if you begin to see it please consider playing another class and adjust accordingly."
What exactly is this "saved surplus exp" and what exactly happens to it?
It clearly isn't simply deleted or not gained, or else it would not have been mentioned. Is this "surplus" applied to your total exp after the weekly reset?
Comments
It isn't a case of " daddy knows best ". They specifically stated it was done to keep players on a level playing field.
" First off, the main concept behind FFXIV is allowing those players with little time on their hands to play effectively, and game balance is based off of that. Furthermore, it is being designed to not give those with more time on their hands to play an unfair advantage. "
I don't disagree or agree with that concept, but it is a unique concept to balance based on time.
Offtopic: The quote system sucks here.
One of the best posts about this subject to date, and it is absolutely spot on.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
i dont get why people are saying you start off with 200% exp for first 8 hours and after 7 more hours it go back to 100%
the first post CLEARLY said you start off 100% for first 8 hours and after 7 hours u get 0% exp
to people who sayying surplus is bonus exp, they are blind
also to people saying ffxiv developler wants use to switch classes often, they NEED TO take away the timer needed to switch our stats! noone want a melee dps stat caster! let alone tanks that need specific stats to dodge and stuff. its just a flaw system and look even worse combine with the surplus exp thingy
The wording of the official statement did them in. If they had said that every 7 days you will have 8 hours of 2Xs XP and THEN 7 more hours of better than 100% XP, people would have screamed for joy.
The way it came out now folks are arguing about 100% being 52% (half-full anyone?). It all amounts to the same thing. Some folks will bull through a single class and some will switch to gain the max of the bonus.
I am looking forward to the game (other than the lack of mouse driven movement).
"Within the first eight hours of play, you can earn 100% experience. The seven hour period following will see your possible experience gradually approach zero.
This system is on a weekly timer. After a week has passed since you began skilling that particular weapon, the timer will reset. It will start anew when you skill up again."
OMG YOU ARE BLIND, where is the 2x exp u dreaming about, please wake up
I dont mind be forced to play multiple classes ut after that 15hours when i stop getting exp , what is the reward for continued play? What progress can be made during that time?
When you switch classes, the Surplus is removed. You can get skill points for that new class you're playing, thus getting higher level and more/different skills.
When next week rolls around, you can use the skills you obtained from the new class you leveled with the class you shelved for a weak because it had surplus state.
That's the point of horizontal progression. Your main class didn't get higher class rank or you getting higher physical level, but it did get few new skills from a class you would not have leveled otherwise.
Uhm... what? Yes, they could word their site like that, but it would be a lie. Yes, they could fudge the numbers so that they can produce appealing looking %s, however they are not. So it doesn't amount to the same thing. It's taking a grind, and capping it to make it last longer.
Honestly, the more I find out about this system, the less I like it. What astonishes me, is how blatant this system seems to be a method of postponing content. I hope I'm wrong, and come open beta (in 2 weeks? I think it is now), we will see the amount of content we've been waiting for. However, to charge a subscription for a game, and then implementing a feature that deliberately prevents you from enjoying the content how you want to; I'm amazed at the number of people that are eating this news up with a smile. It's also no wonder subscription-based games are having such a hard time right now, with things like this going on. I'd rather them take their time to release the game how it should be, then to release it now with this kind of system in place.
I'd really like to play this game, but I'm forced to hold off on that commitment until I see if they have any plans of retracting or modifying this system. There's a number of MMOs around the corner that either don't have a sub, or are not limiting your ability to experience their content. As much as I enjoyed FFXI and FF games in general, at some point you need to take the fanboy hat off and question "is it worth it?".
Half full vs Half empty. It all amounts to the same thing/same amount.
You earn XP and for an 8 hour period you earn twice that.
If some people want to say you earn 50% xp and for 8 hours you earn 100% the NUMBERS ARE STILL THE SAME.
I have a question on your comment. When I play CoH, and I'm designing my Supergroup base for, oh 5 hours, I'm not gaining any XP at all, should i stop doing this? Or when I'm in WoW, swapping between all my bank alts organizing the guild banks, emptying my mailboxes, restocking the AH, I'm not gainign any XP there either, should I stop that too? When I'm in LoTRO, and I'm cleaning out the Kinship chests and crafting gear for the lower levels, I'm not gaining xp on that, does this mean shouldn't do this either? Or if I'm hanging out in Champions Online holding a costume contest and meeting new people I'm not making xp there either, is this another thing I should just stop doing? I could go on and on, but I think you get my point.
What I want to know is, don't you do anything in an MMO besides continuous grind with only one purpose, to gain XP? If that in in fact true, why exactly do you play an MMO in the first place, why not just grab a single player PC RPG and grind your XP out?
Not saying anything about the Surplus or Fatigue systems here which they already stated they are modifying and tweaking. What I am quesitoning is all the people here who are going on about how they wont play an MMO if they aren't gaining XP for every action they do. My contention is that you already do, but your just so focused on this one issue that you fail to realize it. Or am I wrong here when I see an MMO as more than a mathmatical calculation to gain maximum xp/minute in order to optimize your characters progressing to said end game content?
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
well let me ask you a question in return. If after that initial 15hours all you were allowed to do was is shuffle the contents of your bags or rearrange furniture for the other 153 hours of that week would you consider your time and money well spent?
I do not do indepth research on games, for me that ruins the adventure. Now that I know that my time playing after that 15hours will still offer me advancment if not in the form of exp then in the form of skills; Im ok with that.
Another question. What if any kind of cap on skill gain is there?
Canceled my Pre-Order... Looks like Guild Wars 2 for me... I will not be punished for wanting to play a game I pay monthly for? I pay for 30 Days... I will get my 30 days.... I won't be told, Oh well you pay for 30 days but you only get 7.
Its like trading a Dollar for a 50cents... Its unfair and its stupid and SE has went mad if they think this is a good Idea. If this feature sticks to realese I would put money that it will fail and be shut down in a year.
I understand that they want me too try other classes... I'm a Black Magic user I always use Black Magic and I never have a want or need to play any other class then a Magic User. I should choose how I want to play not be told how I HAVE to play.... SE go screw yourself.
Also If you choose to run around and do Craft/Bag/AH, and other nonsense thats your choose. I should not be told well you can't level anymore go make somthing, or go arrange your bags. I decicde when I want to do those things it like SE is trying to force you too do things that people don't want too do. I will arrange my bags when I'm waiting for a party. I will do my AH stuff before a raid. I will do Crafting/Gathering on MY Day off......
So, they choose to penalize one group to be fair to another instead of giving perks to the unfortunate group to bring them up to the other group. Nice...real nice.
This game has too many limits.
Limits on Guildleves you can take (yea, yea you can group but what if I have trouble finding a group etc?)
Limits on leveling
So, if I've maxed my exp for the week and I can't find a leve group, what am I supposed to do?
I think it's beyond ridiculous that people would change their position on this just because it went from "oh, it's less experience as a penalty for playing too much and to punish singleclassing!" to "oh, it's more experience as a bonus for not playing much and to reward multiclassing!" If it works they way people are interpreting, it really is exactly the same as it was before this announcement — except for the overall leveling speed, which is relative to the level cap and exp per level (currently unknown) — and it's kind of sickening that people are so math-illiterate that they think there's a difference.
But aside from that, I'm just confused at why people are interpreting it that way at all. The translated statement says in very plain language that you go down from 100% to 0% over the course of hours 8 to 15. Where in the world are people getting the idea that you go from a 100% bonus down to a 0% bonus?
I am strongly against the idea that this is based on a time limit. Don't rested exp systems generally work off of the amount of experience you gain? As in, the next 20,000 experience you earn will double to 40,000. By having it work off of a time limit instead, they're actually widening the gap between focused efficient players and less-focused players who are interested in side quests, experimentation, and goofing off. The more efficient you are during those 8 hours, the more you pull ahead of people who don't know exactly what to do and where to go. It encourages people to be elitist about who they'll group with if they know that this day is the only day of the week they can make meaningful progress on their class of choice.
I'm really hoping that this is just a bad translation and that you're not seriously limited to 15 hours (effectively 11 and a half hours if you take the integral) of experience per class per week. In terms of the amount of time that I have to play per day, I would be classified as casual and it does not meaningfully affect me. But it would be extraordinarily bad for the game as a whole.
To achieve this balance, the amount of possible skill/experience points earned after a certain period of time has a threshold. Think of it as real-life “fatigue” from working at improving your skills via battle *(aka. No one could train ad nauseam in the real world with no ill effects).
Within the first eight hours of play, you can earn 100% experience. The seven hour period following will see your possible experience gradually approach zero.
This system is on a weekly timer. After a week has passed since you began skilling that particular weapon, the timer will reset. It will start anew when you skill up again.
thats from the official response.
its says experience not BONUS experience.
..wait this says skill/experiance points BOTH have a limit. that sounds to me like after the 15hours i will NOT be able to advance skills either....
Well said.
Problem is a hardcore player will switch classes to maximize their favorite class's potental, no need to force it, this system also makes it so its near impossible to ever catch up to someone who's even started only a week or 2 ahead of you(aka the eve online syndrome). Its a dumb unneeded system and I hope to god they scrap it, because I bet alot of people whop buy the game off the shelf will be pretty pissed off when they find out about it.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Well they will obviously decrease the amount of exp gained for people who have subscribed longer to be fair to those that start playing the game later.
It's like that social experiment when you have 8 people in a room. 7 people know it's an expirement and smoke starts coming into the room. So they all sit still and quiet. Will the 8th person move. No not until an absurd amount of time has passed :-)
Not having played ffxi is multiclassing something that's an essential part of playing say end-game? If not then it's even more absurd.
Thank you, I was going crazy trying to figure out how some people were getting the 200% theory from reading that post by the SquareEnix dev. I came to the same conclusion as you.
Basically, your character and class levels are capped at 15 hours every week, though you can try to cap as many classes as you want. Everyone starting at the same time playing for 15 hours every week should have similar character levels, varying on how efficient they are in combat. Class levels depend on how much additional you play.
Surplus is nothing more than the count of xp that ISN'T counted towards your levels. It's there as a gauge so you know when or if you want to stop.
I agree with him, if the only information available is from the new link posted by the OP.
Honestly if this game was free to play I'd not care, but in a pay to play mmorpg, having a limit on how long you can play is just fail
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Honestly, probably would still concider my time well spent as long as I'm still enjoying the experience yes. If the world is rich in life, I'm enjoying what I'm doing and loving the exploration/content, then yes - no xp sounds just fine with me. I dont play any game with advancement in mind, I play games for the enjoyment/entertainment factor first. If I'm having fun fishing for 10 hours straight, even with no advancement in skill/level, but I'm still collecting fish to use tomorrow and cook some food, hell I'm having fun so sure.
Even in real life, if you have the option of calling the Italian place down the road for a delivered of lasagna or taking a couple hours to go shopping for all the stuff at the local farmers market and making it yourself, which do you chose? Well you chose the one that you enjoy doing of course. Why should your entertainment be any different? Why make the gaming experience into a competition or job, whats the point.
Now that being said, I will conceed that if it limits to only 15 hours of play a week, then that is a bit extreme and its a good thing SE has already stated they are planning on working to modify that. I know many people who play more than that and if this limit is overall than it will hinder many who shouldnt' be. If its only if your in one class, but it goes away when you switch, then I doubt even they will be effected much by it. I dont know anyone who mindlessly grinds for 15 hours straight without doing anything else in an MMO. Maybe yuo do, but I haven't met them yet. The people I play MMOs with actually play the character for the sake of playing the character, its an advaneture to them, be it solo, grouping, or raiding.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
In FFXI, throughout the whole game a small amount of multiclassing gives you a huge benefit — huge enough that the "choice" to never multiclass is about as viable as the "choice" to not wear any armor — and any more than that just gives you more options. Whatever level your main job is, you have to level another compatible job to half that level and equip it as your subjob. So as a level 38 Monk, you ought to have your Warrior job up to at least 19. Having it higher than that doesn't give you any additional benefit. Having other jobs levelled up doesn't give you any additional benefit (other than the option of using something else as your subjob). At endgame, someone who has levelled all of the jobs to max level will have the benefit of being able to switch over to any role that is needed, but when they switch to Monk/Warrior they have no benefit over someone who has only leveled Monk and Warrior.
I don't think that's correct, or at least don't understand how it can be.
For one thing, in the official explanation, they specifically indicate your xp gain is 100% for 8 hours, and then peeters off to 0 for the remaining 7.
Plus, in Beta, people were reporting their actual XP gain dropping way down... I'm talking actual xp gain that goes toward their class. Not surplus xp gain.
It's not like youd' normally be getting 100 xp per mob, but with Surplus you're getting 150 until it runs out, then you're back to the base 100. You're starting at 100 for 8 hours and then slowly decreasing down to 0.
Where does it explain that only your surplus xp decreases?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Going with the theory you recieve 0% exp/sp after 15 hours, there is still a question i've yet to see an answer to:
Quoted from the recent statement:
"Any experience earned past that point is saved as “surplus.” There is surplus for each class, and if you begin to see it please consider playing another class and adjust accordingly."
What exactly is this "saved surplus exp" and what exactly happens to it?
It clearly isn't simply deleted or not gained, or else it would not have been mentioned. Is this "surplus" applied to your total exp after the weekly reset?