Wouldn't be surprised if APB ends up on the Station Pass...this sort of situation is right up Smed's alley.
I laughed.
As far as APB goes, didn't that game just come out a few months ago? WTF... Thank god I didn't buy it , because I was damn sure thinking about buying it.
Is that a factor of the publisher pressuring you to release? If that's the case, then publishers should be aware of the repercussions of releasing an unfinished game.
It's a lot of things that cause these sorts of messes in the industry (RTW isn't the first, and it won't be the last).
Here are my personal observations:
Making a good MMO is harder than any other kind of game. Everybody on this site wants to design one, but even most experienced game designers of single player games aren't cut out to do so.
Despite #1, I think in the industry there is still the naive notion that pushing out an MMO is a quick way to make a cheap buck.
MMO players are the most unforgiving and fickle of customers in the game industry
Traditional models of software development simply don't apply.
In an MMO studio, knowlege is dispersed, but power is concentrated.
#5 is actually the most interesting to me. At an MMO company, basically every single developer is an expert at something. Even the Junior Design sitting in the corner doing grunt work is the only guy that knows how some crazy XML file hooks up to some tool and magically appears in the game.
MMOs are such an impressive convergence of technologies that even sub-leads of a team comprised of a single profession cannot perform the work of most people on the team. If they came up through the ranks they can probably do the job of one or two people on the team. If there were imported from management, they can probably do no job on the team.
What does the Lead Designer, or Executive Producer know about making the *actual* game in the *actual* engine using the *actual* tools? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And they never can, not to any real degree of detail.
I think the good and successful MMOs have a management layer of individuals that listen to the experts (aka the "peons" in the trenches). Because management are not experts, even if they used to be the experts on another project!
The bad and unsuccessful MMOs have a management layer that feel because they have the authority (and they got that authority because they were competent on previous projects) therefore they know best. While they might actually know best in the fuzzy cloud of theoretical design, the reality is the only guy who really knows what designs work with that crazy XML file is that Junior Designer sitting in the corner. It takes a very specific type of humble personality to be an MMO project lead, and be able to put the ego aside and basically trust the team (or at least the sub-leads) to fulfill the project vision on time and under budget. To ask that Junior Designer: "Well, what do you think?"
For this to work, of course, everybody needs to be good at their job (because everybody is an expert in something), and this ties into #1 at the top.
Ofcourse most of us saw this day coming. I even made a page long post about it a week into the game. Fundamentally the game was flawed. And yet, I continued to play and not just a little bit, ALOT.
One thing that captivated me was the character creation and the ability to tweak your appearance any time you wanted, provided you had the cash to do so. The only other game that I have played that allowed me that much freedom was Star Wars Galaxies, when I was a Master Image Designer.
Designing clothes, making outfits with themes....it was awesome fun. And designing your car, changing out the parts, the colors, designing the decals, etc. I loved it. You could even design your own graffiti and leave it around townl. I will absolutely miss my character and all her clothes and cars.
I will miss those timed missions with my guildies, racing against the clock toward some objective when we all thought we had lost and somehow we won. Or the missions we thought we had in the bag, only to lose it in the final seconds. We were shouting victory chants over vent, and other times raging agianst some fubar game mechanic or some hacker.
Yeah the game was fucked in many ways. The weaknesses in game design were there, obvious glaring flaws. How could RTW not see them? And yet I learned to really love the game (and sometimes hate it). Many will dismiss it as a piece of junk. But I don't think I've felt this conflicted over an mmo since PreCU SWG. Ofcourse, it didn't have the depth of SWG, but it wasn't that kind of game or even trying to be. It was about adrenaline, cars careening down the street, tense firefights through San Paro's streets, and split second decisions that could mean victory or failure.
But sometimes, sadly, the cool, fun things in APB were eclipsed by the hackers, damn them. Were they the ultimate downfall of APB. Maybe so, maybe not. But the game released like a wounded animal, limping around right out of the gate, and the hackers descended on the game and everyone in it like a pack of jackals.
The only thing I regret is not having just paid for this less than a month ago, but not being able to physically smack the smug look off the faces of the people that are enjoying this news. It sucks to see people lose jobs and something good go under, but that's all that some people find entertaining these days. I'm sure there is more interesting trainwrecks that deserve your scorn, jackassses.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I'm sure there is more interesting trainwrecks that deserve your scorn, jackassses.
Nope, can't think of any.
Millions of dollars spent on a horrible, horrible excuse for a game that fell flat on its face the minute it left the starting gate is pretty entertaining.
The Customization System was the best I have ever seen in any game. Bar none.
I have a few vehicle designs and graphics, plus 1 dozen or so tattoo/body art screenshots that I kept from Beta.
1 of the vehicle graphics Im going to have put on my Jeep. 2 or 3 of the tats Im going to have on me.
Ive seen some other peoples designs that are just ass kicking cool.
I wish RTW would release just the Character/Vehicle Creator and Customization System to the public as an Offline/SP type of program.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT Playing: Skyrim Following: The Repopulation I want a Virtual World, not just a Game. ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
I made the same mistake, purchasing it at release. I figured the game was going to be in trouble after playing it for a few hours. Yes, very surprising it died this quick though. Message to Devs - of course you can say you didn't have 'time' to shape it into the game you wanted, but then the simple question is why was it released in an uncompleted state then? Is that a factor of the publisher pressuring you to release? If that's the case, then publishers should be aware of the repercussions of releasing an unfinished game.
Overall though, I'll agree with nearly everyone here. This was not surprising.
EA is notorious for releasing games unfinished. Look at the last 2 NFS games. They had many problems on release and probably still have issues (duno cuz I don't buy many ea games anymore cuz of said stupidity)
Do your research. Electronic Arts had nothing to do with APB other than that viral "Human Avatar" advertising campaign and organizing what stores got boxes. It's the same relationship Valve and EA have. EA just makes the boxes and ships them. RTW self-developed and published.
It's a bit strange to think that Electronic Arts is the shining apple in the all the muck of game devs the past years. Valve hasn't done anything notable since L4D2 (and even that was a rehash of L4D1). Activision is greedy like nothing else. Ubisoft loves the Internet in singleplayer. Blizzard milks money from morons. Don't get me wrong, EA is bad for their horrible download manager thing and some DRM issues, but they're reletively clean compared to other companies recently.
well considering most people could continue to play the game without spending a dime by selling money using rtw points and getting free months up I don't see how their business model was completely working honestly... they should have just stuck with a standard sub fee.
------------------------------ We don't have a great war in our generation, or a great depression, but we do, we have a great war of the spirit. We have a great revolution against the culture. The great depression is our lives. ~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club
While APB had it's issues I'm sad to see it go. One of the greatest side MMO's imho. Need a break from your main? Hop into APB and blow some chit up lol. Was fun, loved the customization and loved the action. Game was starting to shape up with the patches they were doing. Most complaints were being taken care of.
But in the end .... BAM! Another one bites the dust.
Holy damn god !!! I was so excited when they released it.... I waited so many years for play it and the game never attract new mass players T.T The server % pop was too little.
Excellent concept but RTW implemented only cops & robbers runs in action districts... Funny for 2 weeks not more.
Okej, this may be one of the most short-lived mmo's in history and this game must be considered to be nothing but a big flop.
The biggest or even one of the biggest flops though?? Hmm, I'm not so sure about that... Afterall, the hype for this game did not take any astronomical proportions.
exactly, thanks. Damn, didn't EA have its name on this somewhere? Realtime has a great concept but dissapointing game "IF" it's expected to by GTA of any kind. The weapons were a joke just like other fps/mmos. Ya have to satisfy the mmoers making LEveling the pre-requisite for any weapons to work. FPSers want practice and skill. I am objective, practice and skill should count most. LEveling while watching tv or what ever is cool too. ya Can Not have both. Levelers are Not going to let a day old newbie kick their ass, even though that day old newbie spent more hours practicing then mmorpger could ever dream of logging. Difference is Time vs Practice. mmorpger = time. FPSer = practice. Personally, spending time without effort and expect equal results as person who works their ass off practicing is the excuse to except failure. Sounds like the Unions mentality. Sure, Everyone gets equal bennies but the minority work for us? B.S. Have fun.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
Sorry forgot the most important thing. I can get off this drive? No reason to think it will have a future? Hopefully it copies GTA all the way, get rid of the sissy ass weapons. Wait, did GTA have sissy ass weapons? No..... Let the mmorpgers go elsewhere and the GTAers take it once it gets in line with GTA.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
exactly, thanks. Damn, didn't EA have its name on this somewhere? Realtime has a great concept but dissapointing game "IF" it's expected to by GTA of any kind. The weapons were a joke just like other fps/mmos. Ya have to satisfy the mmoers making LEveling the pre-requisite for any weapons to work. FPSers want practice and skill. I am objective, practice and skill should count most. LEveling while watching tv or what ever is cool too. ya Can Not have both. Levelers are Not going to let a day old newbie kick their ass, even though that day old newbie spent more hours practicing then mmorpger could ever dream of logging. Difference is Time vs Practice. mmorpger = time. FPSer = practice. Personally, spending time without effort and expect equal results as person who works their ass off practicing is the excuse to except failure. Sounds like the Unions mentality. Sure, Everyone gets equal bennies but the minority work for us? B.S. Have fun.
Iunno, I still think Planetside managed to strike a decent balance between skill and progression in levels.
Key point being nonlinear progression. You don't unlock strictly better guns, vehicles, equipment, etc. You unlock specialized options and unique role fillers to flesh out and fine tune a play style over time.
EDIT: Same kinda concept as what they implemented in MAG too.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
What can developers take from this failure. Don't realease your game with a goofy price system. P2P doesn't work when higher quality games don't charge you to use thier fancy match making service.
While it's always sad to see a game fail, it's a sign of industry becoming more mature and the playerbase finally begining to demand high quality.
thies death and those that will follow are necesary for evolution.
so let's hope some great MMOs learn from this lesson. not everything with flashy graphics and a chatbox is a P2P MMORPG.
If their character creator wasn't high quality, then nothing is. That was the best one I've seen in pretty much any game.
I hope future MMOs will get that detailed with their character creators.
I agree with Robo i'm glad this game failed. Hopefully this will make other developers have their game up to a better standard of quality before releasing it. I've been really annoyed that people think it's okay to release a crappy game and patch it along the way. It's not. It should be solid before release and can be improved from there.
Also APB was not a character creation game it was suppose to be an MMORPGish game. Just because it did one thing right, shouldn't mean it's a success or of any sort of quality.
Comments
I laughed.
As far as APB goes, didn't that game just come out a few months ago? WTF... Thank god I didn't buy it , because I was damn sure thinking about buying it.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
It looks like the IP might soon be sold.
http://www.develop-online.net/news/35877/Realtime-Worlds-faces-closure-as-rescue-bid-fails
It's a lot of things that cause these sorts of messes in the industry (RTW isn't the first, and it won't be the last).
Here are my personal observations:
Making a good MMO is harder than any other kind of game. Everybody on this site wants to design one, but even most experienced game designers of single player games aren't cut out to do so.
Despite #1, I think in the industry there is still the naive notion that pushing out an MMO is a quick way to make a cheap buck.
MMO players are the most unforgiving and fickle of customers in the game industry
Traditional models of software development simply don't apply.
In an MMO studio, knowlege is dispersed, but power is concentrated.
#5 is actually the most interesting to me. At an MMO company, basically every single developer is an expert at something. Even the Junior Design sitting in the corner doing grunt work is the only guy that knows how some crazy XML file hooks up to some tool and magically appears in the game.
MMOs are such an impressive convergence of technologies that even sub-leads of a team comprised of a single profession cannot perform the work of most people on the team. If they came up through the ranks they can probably do the job of one or two people on the team. If there were imported from management, they can probably do no job on the team.
What does the Lead Designer, or Executive Producer know about making the *actual* game in the *actual* engine using the *actual* tools? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And they never can, not to any real degree of detail.
I think the good and successful MMOs have a management layer of individuals that listen to the experts (aka the "peons" in the trenches). Because management are not experts, even if they used to be the experts on another project!
The bad and unsuccessful MMOs have a management layer that feel because they have the authority (and they got that authority because they were competent on previous projects) therefore they know best. While they might actually know best in the fuzzy cloud of theoretical design, the reality is the only guy who really knows what designs work with that crazy XML file is that Junior Designer sitting in the corner. It takes a very specific type of humble personality to be an MMO project lead, and be able to put the ego aside and basically trust the team (or at least the sub-leads) to fulfill the project vision on time and under budget. To ask that Junior Designer: "Well, what do you think?"
For this to work, of course, everybody needs to be good at their job (because everybody is an expert in something), and this ties into #1 at the top.
Ofcourse most of us saw this day coming. I even made a page long post about it a week into the game. Fundamentally the game was flawed. And yet, I continued to play and not just a little bit, ALOT.
One thing that captivated me was the character creation and the ability to tweak your appearance any time you wanted, provided you had the cash to do so. The only other game that I have played that allowed me that much freedom was Star Wars Galaxies, when I was a Master Image Designer.
Designing clothes, making outfits with themes....it was awesome fun. And designing your car, changing out the parts, the colors, designing the decals, etc. I loved it. You could even design your own graffiti and leave it around townl. I will absolutely miss my character and all her clothes and cars.
I will miss those timed missions with my guildies, racing against the clock toward some objective when we all thought we had lost and somehow we won. Or the missions we thought we had in the bag, only to lose it in the final seconds. We were shouting victory chants over vent, and other times raging agianst some fubar game mechanic or some hacker.
Yeah the game was fucked in many ways. The weaknesses in game design were there, obvious glaring flaws. How could RTW not see them? And yet I learned to really love the game (and sometimes hate it). Many will dismiss it as a piece of junk. But I don't think I've felt this conflicted over an mmo since PreCU SWG. Ofcourse, it didn't have the depth of SWG, but it wasn't that kind of game or even trying to be. It was about adrenaline, cars careening down the street, tense firefights through San Paro's streets, and split second decisions that could mean victory or failure.
But sometimes, sadly, the cool, fun things in APB were eclipsed by the hackers, damn them. Were they the ultimate downfall of APB. Maybe so, maybe not. But the game released like a wounded animal, limping around right out of the gate, and the hackers descended on the game and everyone in it like a pack of jackals.
RIP APB. Many will curse you. I will miss you.
Goddamn it...
The only thing I regret is not having just paid for this less than a month ago, but not being able to physically smack the smug look off the faces of the people that are enjoying this news. It sucks to see people lose jobs and something good go under, but that's all that some people find entertaining these days. I'm sure there is more interesting trainwrecks that deserve your scorn, jackassses.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Nope, can't think of any.
Millions of dollars spent on a horrible, horrible excuse for a game that fell flat on its face the minute it left the starting gate is pretty entertaining.
The Customization System was the best I have ever seen in any game. Bar none.
I have a few vehicle designs and graphics, plus 1 dozen or so tattoo/body art screenshots that I kept from Beta.
1 of the vehicle graphics Im going to have put on my Jeep. 2 or 3 of the tats Im going to have on me.
Ive seen some other peoples designs that are just ass kicking cool.
I wish RTW would release just the Character/Vehicle Creator and Customization System to the public as an Offline/SP type of program.
Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)
Do your research. Electronic Arts had nothing to do with APB other than that viral "Human Avatar" advertising campaign and organizing what stores got boxes. It's the same relationship Valve and EA have. EA just makes the boxes and ships them. RTW self-developed and published.
It's a bit strange to think that Electronic Arts is the shining apple in the all the muck of game devs the past years. Valve hasn't done anything notable since L4D2 (and even that was a rehash of L4D1). Activision is greedy like nothing else. Ubisoft loves the Internet in singleplayer. Blizzard milks money from morons. Don't get me wrong, EA is bad for their horrible download manager thing and some DRM issues, but they're reletively clean compared to other companies recently.
Well i was just clearing games i don't play off my pc for hd room and cleaner hd guess i can now add this space to it.
Should have gone f2p.
-trollface.jpg-
RTW shouldve listened to its beta testers and fixed its laundry list of items before it launched..
It jus goes to show you how important launches are in MMO's..
Its just another innovative MMO with great potential that jus' ended up in the wrong hands.. Just like Tabula Rasa before it.
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
Please use this thread to discuss the recent shutdown of APB. Please do not create any thread outside of this one to discuss this topic. Thanks.
well considering most people could continue to play the game without spending a dime by selling money using rtw points and getting free months up I don't see how their business model was completely working honestly... they should have just stuck with a standard sub fee.
------------------------------
We don't have a great war in our generation, or a great depression, but we do, we have a great war of the spirit. We have a great revolution against the culture. The great depression is our lives.
~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club
While APB had it's issues I'm sad to see it go. One of the greatest side MMO's imho. Need a break from your main? Hop into APB and blow some chit up lol. Was fun, loved the customization and loved the action. Game was starting to shape up with the patches they were doing. Most complaints were being taken care of.
But in the end .... BAM! Another one bites the dust.
RIP APB, at least some of us will miss it :P
Holy damn god !!! I was so excited when they released it.... I waited so many years for play it and the game never attract new mass players T.T The server % pop was too little.
Excellent concept but RTW implemented only cops & robbers runs in action districts... Funny for 2 weeks not more.
Okej, this may be one of the most short-lived mmo's in history and this game must be considered to be nothing but a big flop.
The biggest or even one of the biggest flops though?? Hmm, I'm not so sure about that... Afterall, the hype for this game did not take any astronomical proportions.
exactly, thanks. Damn, didn't EA have its name on this somewhere? Realtime has a great concept but dissapointing game "IF" it's expected to by GTA of any kind. The weapons were a joke just like other fps/mmos. Ya have to satisfy the mmoers making LEveling the pre-requisite for any weapons to work. FPSers want practice and skill. I am objective, practice and skill should count most. LEveling while watching tv or what ever is cool too. ya Can Not have both. Levelers are Not going to let a day old newbie kick their ass, even though that day old newbie spent more hours practicing then mmorpger could ever dream of logging. Difference is Time vs Practice. mmorpger = time. FPSer = practice. Personally, spending time without effort and expect equal results as person who works their ass off practicing is the excuse to except failure. Sounds like the Unions mentality. Sure, Everyone gets equal bennies but the minority work for us? B.S. Have fun.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
Sorry forgot the most important thing. I can get off this drive? No reason to think it will have a future? Hopefully it copies GTA all the way, get rid of the sissy ass weapons. Wait, did GTA have sissy ass weapons? No..... Let the mmorpgers go elsewhere and the GTAers take it once it gets in line with GTA.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
This is not "may be" This is the FASTER DEAD GAME of the world, for sure.
Finally APB got a trophy : the best game money hole.
Now... i'm crying (T.T)
Iunno, I still think Planetside managed to strike a decent balance between skill and progression in levels.
Key point being nonlinear progression. You don't unlock strictly better guns, vehicles, equipment, etc. You unlock specialized options and unique role fillers to flesh out and fine tune a play style over time.
EDIT: Same kinda concept as what they implemented in MAG too.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
What can developers take from this failure. Don't realease your game with a goofy price system. P2P doesn't work when higher quality games don't charge you to use thier fancy match making service.
Which lasted longer, APB or Dark and Light?
The Grand List Of Forum And Community Laws
make sure they cremate the corpse so it cant come back as an even more horrible undead version
I agree with Robo i'm glad this game failed. Hopefully this will make other developers have their game up to a better standard of quality before releasing it. I've been really annoyed that people think it's okay to release a crappy game and patch it along the way. It's not. It should be solid before release and can be improved from there.
Also APB was not a character creation game it was suppose to be an MMORPGish game. Just because it did one thing right, shouldn't mean it's a success or of any sort of quality.