Blows my mind why people actually expected somethin diferent to ffxi,at least on what core elements are.
On a side note ffxi was one of the best pve mmos ever for many people.
Do people even bother to do a bit of research before crying on forums anymore ?
Never gonna happen. These people hate reading, remember?
So....how many of the people talking bad about FFXIV in this thread are actually planning on playing it once it is released??
Just curious, since yoru all so worked up about it and all. Playing yes?? Preorder yes?? Please dont tell me your not going to be playing. I mean what would be the point of all this then?
I think the problem is that a lot of people who love(d) the FF franchise, and were disappointed with FFXI(either because it was too hardcore, or too dated) were expecting a lot from FFXIV and really wanted to love it. They were promised a casual friendly game, brought up to today's standards...
I am one of those people... I really wanted to love this game... And went back and tried to repeatedly(spent like a week trying) and just couldn't...
FFXI released 8 years ago. Even if they hadn't made the claim in interviews, it is reasonable to assume that after 8 years they would bring us an mmorpg with an up to date interface, rather than a dated POS.
The game fails in a couple of respects:
1) The game is designed to be played on a console. Playing it on a computer without a controller is painful. And to all those people saying "well, if you aren't willing to get a controller you shouldn't complain"... A game targeted at PC gamers should be playable using a variety of HIDs.
2) SE purposefully disabled key features of the user experience in the beta. A good example of this is the hardware mouse. SE claimed that they should have the hardware mouse added in for release... There are already player made patches to enable the hardware mouse, because the support for it is there, SE just disabled it.
3) The gameplay is really weak. Spells require too many presses to get them to go off (with the keyboard, for example, you have to target the monster, hit the spell key, then hit the enter key, every time you want to cast a spell). Combat is stationary and combat animations(that I've seen so far) are boring. You cannot work on more than one quest at a time.
There are other things I could add, but I don't really need to go further...
You asked what the point is... The point is that we really wanted to love this game, and the game SE has made isn't the game we were told we would be getting, and however much we want to love it, it isn't enough to overlook all of the games faults.
Being boring in general, lacking an inuitive UI and a general sense of direction doesn't make this game good, nor does it make it hard. Having a learning curve or offering little to no camoflauge for the grinding that every MMORPG has doesn't either.
I'm not bored when I play it, the UI was pleanty intuitive for me to follow it, and what you call "lacking [...] a general sense of direction" I call "not being lead around by the nose."
So basically, you're just insulting this game baselessly based off of a subjective opinion, like me saying, "being ugly, easy, and stupid doesn't make your mother a fine upstanding individiual, nor does it make her someone I'd want to date."
Of course, I never met your mother, just as it may so happen you've never played this game, this particular example was just to clarify the logical fallacy of the statement using something I hope is at least as near and dear to your heart as a game I enjoy is to mine.
Originally posted by Echelons
The basic flaw in the trolling is that the argument is based around the idea that MMORPG's shouldn't be judged like every other genre of videogames are. That's why a lot of games are FINALLY starting to break away from the idealogy behind most of the other MMORPGs and are starting to focus more on stories and inovation
That sure is true. However, each individual game should be judged by its own merits, and if what Final Fantasy XIV brings is enjoyment to be found in the characteristics often associated with MMORPGs, then it's just as innovative as it needs to be. For what it's worth, Final Fantasy XIV's main quest lines actually are heavily story based with frequent, highly-detailed, partly interactive cutscenes, an innovative feature you won't see in many other MMORPGs.
Originally posted by Echelons
[...] despite the fact that having a high hardware requirement is a detriment to your top-end sales figures.
Ah, the players sure are kind to care so much about how much money other people are making... at least when they're trying to force the developers to make changes to their game.
Originally posted by Echelons
I refuse to say that it's a good game simply because a 12 year old is goign to have to ask 32,000 questions in the help channel in order to figure out what the hell he's supposed to be doing for the first 3 hours of gameplay.
Another example of the topmost paragraph here, subjective opinion being spun to a ridiculous degree.
Yes, that would be a bother. Must be why we did away with the help channels in Final Fantasy XIV.
Sorry i've been playing since muds then m59 then UO i've played EQ when grind was true grind, level 39 hell level going to kunark me with my mage her with her shaman we fought on the sloped for 7 hours and gained 4 pixels thats 4 pixels of xp.
It wasn't fun it wasn't anything but boring moronic grind..
Many games inovate, Anarchy online still has the most indepth char developement system ever.
FFIV is nothing special we both tried the beta and both of us cancelled our pre-order, its not a FF game (especially if you love the old FF7-10) its a mmo with a thin FF glaze, the control system is horrible as are the quests.
or as my wife said and it pretty much somes it up, FFIV is a game without heart it isn't inovative its just ego+developers trying to force me to play with a controller and force me to fit into there limited view.
BTW I love using the ps3/ps2 controller when i'm playing single player games but not mmo's.
Sorry i've been playing since muds then m59 then UO i've played EQ when grind was true grind, level 39 hell level going to kunark me with my mage her with her shaman we fought on the sloped for 7 hours and gained 4 pixels thats 4 pixels of xp.
It wasn't fun it wasn't anything but boring moronic grind..
Many games inovate, Anarchy online still has the most indepth char developement system ever.
FFIV is nothing special we both tried the beta and both of us cancelled our pre-order, its not a FF game (especially if you love the old FF7-10) its a mmo with a thin FF glaze, the control system is horrible as are the quests.
or as my wife said and it pretty much somes it up, FFIV is a game without heart it isn't inovative its just ego+developers trying to force me to play with a controller and force me to fit into there limited view.
BTW I love using the ps3/ps2 controller when i'm playing single player games but not mmo's.
In some ways, this is the best critique I've heard yet.
I've been playing muds since they were text-based BBS door games where we logged in, one-player-at-a-time, on a 300 baud modem. I think if you really look at any MMORPG, they're all nothing "but a boring moronic grind," If you focus on that level bar, that's all your going to see: pixels appearing within it. World of Warcraft entertained me for a total of four weeks before I burned out and quit it, and I absolutely loathed Anarchy Online. Yes, I have played the greater bulk of the Final Fantasy games though, fickle gamer that I am, I only ever finished 7.
Even then, after all that, It took me much deliberation (about 100 hours into the Open Beta) before I decided to go ahead and buy the game. Upon which I decided I'll happily grind Final Fantasy XIV because, for me, the game does have heart and does innovate in the right places. It's the journey, not the destination, or so we tell ourselves, and I have to say this is a hella cool journey for me.
Just to make it real clear: It's subjective, neither of us are wrong in our subjective perspectives. It's only when we've got folk in here trying to convince us that we're wrong to like the game that it annoys me, and frankly you went slightly over the line by insisting the game is just a moronic grind, doesn't innovate, and worst of all, doesn't have heart.
Blows my mind why people actually expected somethin diferent to ffxi,at least on what core elements are.
On a side note ffxi was one of the best pve mmos ever for many people.
Do people even bother to do a bit of research before crying on forums anymore ?
Never gonna happen. These people hate reading, remember?
So....how many of the people talking bad about FFXIV in this thread are actually planning on playing it once it is released??
Just curious, since yoru all so worked up about it and all. Playing yes?? Preorder yes?? Please dont tell me your not going to be playing. I mean what would be the point of all this then?
I'd bet money that 90% of the people complaining about FFXIV will be playing it at launch.
Yes, it's just another asian grinder, in much the same way World of Warcraft is just another western casual-friendly MMORPG.
Do tell, what does "casual-friendly grinder" mean? Seems like oxymoron to me...
If you honestly think that you've spent (at most) about 7 years subscribed to World of Warcraft, depleting the hitpoint bars of stuff of varying shapes and sizes, painstakingly earning that gold for epic mount after epic mount after epic mount, and you're not playing a grind, I think I've got a bridge I can sell you.
All MMORPGs, with extremely unusual exceptions are a grind. What makes it "casual-friendly" is really more a matter of pacing, trying to accomidate people who don't have all that many hours per day to play.
Actually, I hesistate to say World of Wacraft is truly casual friendly. From what I understand, the end game pulls a bit of a bait-and-switch. It's mostly the levels on the way to the end game that are casual friendly.
You can grind in WoW if you so choose, to gain mounts or whatever the fuck, but don't come here saying it's the same thing as being forced to grind to gain levels. WoW has quests. FFXIV has small number of quests, you need to grind your ass of to advance. Yes, it's still beta, things will change. But only to a degree, asians love their mob-spam.
Blows my mind why people actually expected somethin diferent to ffxi,at least on what core elements are.
On a side note ffxi was one of the best pve mmos ever for many people.
Do people even bother to do a bit of research before crying on forums anymore ?
Never gonna happen. These people hate reading, remember?
So....how many of the people talking bad about FFXIV in this thread are actually planning on playing it once it is released??
Just curious, since yoru all so worked up about it and all. Playing yes?? Preorder yes?? Please dont tell me your not going to be playing. I mean what would be the point of all this then?
I'd bet money that 90% of the people complaining about FFXIV will be playing it at launch.
Rofl. I bet you're also the person that put their money into Enron if you're betting with those numbers.
I'd bet money that 90% of the people complaining about FFXIV will be playing it at launch.
I'll take that bet sir. In any case, what difference does it make? Real criticism isn't strictly negative. It's come to the point on these forums that if someone posts something even slightly negative, no matter how constructive, the FF Fan Squad jumps into overdrive telling everybody why they're wrong. Just like people have opinions that the game is good, people also have opinions that the game is bad. I will never understand why people that can't stand criticism choose to post on MMORPG.com instead of a fansite where most people think the game is good. It's like the fans enjoy the trolling/hating/negativity here. Bunch of masochists if you ask me.
In any case, I will likely be one of the people who *GASP* complains and gripes about FFXIV, but will still likely play. Please forgive me for wanting the game to improve from its shabby state.
FF14 is sort of a blast from the past, its a mmo like what mmorpg's were before the mmorpg market killer(To many games are easy mode now because of WoW, wasn't the case before its release) world of warcraft was out. Most of the people bashing it are probally mmorpg players who were spoon fed by WoW and its cloned ilk and don't have any real clue what-so-ever of what a REAL mmorpg was about. Its one of the reasons I like it, it'll keep the "I want easymode" players out since its not easy enough for them to grasp. I played wow back at release and after a month or 2 I quit and never went back, I just found the game lacking in so many aspects compared to mmorpg's I was used to.
Anyway, FF14 is meant to not hold your hand, its meant for you to go out and try things on your own, just like FF11 was. If you can't handle this, may as well go back to wow, or whatever easy mode mmo you came from. Unlike Everquest 2, SE won't change FF14 to cater to wow players (in terms of where stuff is etc, and ease of finding things). Either suck it up and get used to using a wiki, or just leave, less lag and less whining for the rest of us who enjoy the game to deal with on forums.
If you can handle it well welcome
I do not know OP, sounds like a bash on WoW and its player base instead of a support for FF14. I mean "To many games are easy mode now because of WoW" statement says that "its all WoW's fault that FF14 is made for....whom? Really, do you think many other games decided to develope there game per your experience because of WoW? I think not.
From what I am reading on this site and many others, FF14 needs some...work and not be released like recent other AAA MMORPG's that are half ready for release. At least this is the information on most sites I visited;
"A lot of work needs to be done to improve the general user experience, and I hope that Square Enix will listen to their soon-to-be consumers as in its current state Final Fantasy XIV is not worth the buying price yet alone the monthly fee. Considering the game is less than a month away from shipping, that's not a good thing."
My point is simple, remove the reported issues and the population will increase along with the fun factor. At least that is where I stand regarding FF14, a game I would love to enjoy not for hand holding but for story line and community. In short, bashing other players and claiming that they have no clue of what a real MMORPG is about appears as an ego inflated issue.
You can grind in WoW if you so choose, to gain mounts or whatever the fuck, but don't come here saying it's the same thing as being forced to grind to gain levels. WoW has quests. FFXIV has small number of quests, you need to grind your ass of to advance. Yes, it's still beta, things will change. But only to a degree, asians love their mob-spam.
Technically speaking, you're still grinding, all quest really adds is context: a reason why you're grinding. However, at the end of the day, you're still killing ten rats, and the technical difference with a quest as opposed to without is we move a portion of that xp and loot off the rats and onto the quest completion reward and we wrote a bit of text that explains why it was necessary to kill those rats.
Granted, context is nice to have. I, like you, do like to know I'm not just killing stuff for no damn reason other than it moves and when I hit it loot comes out, like some kind of belligerant digital pinyata. Which is why I'm glad to say that FInal Fantasy XIV has significant context, both in the Guildleves and most importantly in the elaborate quest number, which, for the most part, was saved for release (which is why the beta client is 1/3rd the size of the release client).
That said, there's always such a thing as too much of a good thing, and quest-driven games rub me that way. After awhile, it becomes pretty clear to me that this is just a linear (maybe branched) procession of areas with tiered mobs and assoicated quests, at which point the sense of it being a virtual world dies. I get pointed to the next area where I find the big exclaimation points over NPC heads and think to myself, "am I an adventurer yet? No, I'm just a tourist being directed through a procession of theme parks."
The "limited number of guildleves" approach is more immersive for me, the idea that you're going out and slaying x number of mobs in a limited number of availabe quests feels more like a bounty bounty board in an existing virtual world. This is reinforced by having to go out into that virtual world and hunt them without a quest if you want to progress outside of guildleves. That mobs get nastier the further away from town feels nonlinear if I imagine civilization would have hacked back the nastier threats (and actually, there's big pockets of nastier mobs closer to civiliation in the midst of weaker mobs, so I guess it's not completely linear and more realistic).
Final Fantasy XIV is not based off of Lineage II, it's based off of Final Fantasy XI. Final Fantasy XI was not based off of Lineage, it was based off of EverQuest, a western game. So calling it an asian grinder is very inaccurate, and not a little racist. About the only thing I could say about it being Asian is that they've put a Japanese-friendly console interface on it, but you know, it's not like I've never played a JRPG before, and neither has anyone else who has ever played any of the world-famous Final Fantasy series.
Final Fantasy XIV is not based off of Lineage, it's based off of Final Fantasy XI. Final Fantasy XI was not based off of Lineage, it was based off of EverQuest, a western game. So calling it an asian grinder is very inaccurate, and not a little racist.
FFXI had a metric shit-ton of grind that permeated every aspect of the game. I'm not sure if you played the same game as me. It's an Asian MMO, and it has epic grind. Hence, Asian grinder. XI is my most beloved MMO of all time, but times have changed since then, and I simply won't pay $15 a month to kill blue crabs for six months... after the blue crabs I get to kill pink birds for the rest of my life.
I'm upset with XIV because it hasn't evolved in a positive way from XI at all. I may as well continue to play XI.
Final Fantasy XIV is not based off of Lineage, it's based off of Final Fantasy XI. Final Fantasy XI was not based off of Lineage, it was based off of EverQuest, a western game. So calling it an asian grinder is very inaccurate, and not a little racist.
FFXI had a metric shit-ton of grind that permeated every aspect of the game. I'm not sure if you played the same game as me. It's an Asian MMO, and it has epic grind. Hence, Asian grinder. XI is my most beloved MMO of all time, but times have changed since then, and I simply won't pay $15 a month to kill blue crabs for six months... after the blue crabs I get to kill pink birds for the rest of my life.
If you've played EverQuest, then you should know that that game, too, was an epic grind. That's right, the epic grind was invented right here on American terra firma, before "casual-friendliness" became everybody's favorite buzz word. Not being able to progress past level 8-15 (depending on class) unless you were in a team or resorted to a tactic other than toe-to-toe fighting (only available to a few classes)? That was ours.
Granted, EverQuest became considerably more soloable later, primarily because there was a massive loot creep that trivialized lower level content after awhile. They also added a bit of a quest line to ease in the new players. Although those quests come to an abrupt end at about the point where you join the main game.
However, at the beginning and for several years afterwards, there was only really basic quests, you'd just go out and kill stuff in a team, and 99.5% of the time there was no quest related to that. It was considered a massive success, everybody was trying to copy EverQuest, and the players loved it (all the way up until burnout - just like any other MMORPG). People who enjoy Final Fantasy XI and (to a lesser extent, as it is a has provided some avenues of casual-friendly play) XIV, still do.
The main problem with this game is the UI. It is just awful. And since this game is introduced to PCs first, it is a bad excuse to claim that one should use a game pad because the game is developed for PS3.
It is also pretty retarded to claim that the game is somehow "harder", if it has a maze of menus to navigate just to use basic actions andn functtions. No it's not harder, it is just clunkier i.e. more horribly designed than better games out there.
It is good to keep in mind that other games have been developed for both consoles and PCs and do not suffer from this. User Interface Design is not exactly a new field.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Get out,ride a bike,watch a movie,go swimming,get some sex,go to a concert,etc etc.
All the above are as pointless as virtual worlds.
Sex is as pointless as an MMO? You are a strange person. Gamers wonder why they are protrayed as basement dwellers who are socially retarded... here's why.
Get out,ride a bike,watch a movie,go swimming,get some sex,go to a concert,etc etc.
All the above are as pointless as virtual worlds.
Sex is as pointless as an MMO? You are a strange person. Gamers wonder why they are protrayed as basement dwellers who are socially retarded... here's why.
Cant belive people actually arguing that guys post.
Get out,ride a bike,watch a movie,go swimming,get some sex,go to a concert,etc etc.
All the above are as pointless as virtual worlds.
Sex is as pointless as an MMO? You are a strange person. Gamers wonder why they are protrayed as basement dwellers who are socially retarded... here's why.
Cant belive people actually arguing that guys post.
Unbelivable.
Can't believe people actually can't believe that people are believably biting at trollbait. Believe.
It's kind of absurd that the FF14 fans can't post what they like about the game. Just what they dislike about WoW...
If you like grinding why does it bother you that people say it's just a grinder?
I wasn't ever asked. But since you want to know I'll tell you!
15 member parties
AI movements (not as good as DF at ALL but it's better than them just standing there.
Harvesting
The Quests
The Environment
The community
The Soundtrack
I really like the lore that I've managed to read up on thus far
I love the player site SE made
I'm really intrigued about the Company features
I love the mob movement
The fact I can mix and match armor
The classes
They way I can use skills with other classes
character Creation
Roleplaying
Linkshells
I love how I suck at cooking
I love the tools
And I love the UI (it's refreshing)
I could probably hit 50 but I won't bore you to death...Since you really honestly didn't care in the first place.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
Well I'm glad there are masochists and sadists out there. The real FFXIV open beta starts soon, you can pay to play it and help fix it up so that in a few months I and the other reasonable people can sub and enjoy it. Thanks.
Well I'm glad there are masochists and sadists out there. The real FFXIV open beta starts soon, you can pay to play it and help fix it up so that in a few months I and the other reasonable people can sub and enjoy it. Thanks.
You are very welcome. =D I'm going to enjoy being 20-40 levels ahead of you btw time you get around to playing. If ever. And then I'm going to enjoy giving you advice that will screw up your character into next doomsday.
HAHAHA Just KIDDING! It's my pleasure. I love helping out lazy POS's. =D Can't wait to see you in game.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
Well I'm glad there are masochists and sadists out there. The real FFXIV open beta starts soon, you can pay to play it and help fix it up so that in a few months I and the other reasonable people can sub and enjoy it. Thanks.
To be fair, that's the reality in every MMO these days.
I played the closed and Open beta and will probably play but not at release. I enjoyed the experience as its my first taste of FF.
Seriously can we drop the notion that this game is hardcore or has a steep learning curve, just because you have to spend half an hour talking to tons of npcs untill you find the one that repairs your gear. Thats not hardcore, just a timesink. And thats just 1 random example.
That you're here, on the Final Fantasy XIV boards, trying to tell us that we can't like the game that we do, more or less robs you of whatever justification you have.
I'll say it again, slowly: Not Every Game Is For Everyone.
We're not being fanboys, to the right player, this game is every bit as good as we say it is.
Man, what is it about MMORPGs? If this were a book or a movie, I liked it, and you didn't, we'd chalk it up to subjective opinon. Like it or not, the same principle applies here. I swear, this kind of butting of heads is one of the reasons the label "gamer" carries such a negative stigma.
Geldon, this is why we pay u the big bucks
QFMFT
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Comments
I think the problem is that a lot of people who love(d) the FF franchise, and were disappointed with FFXI(either because it was too hardcore, or too dated) were expecting a lot from FFXIV and really wanted to love it. They were promised a casual friendly game, brought up to today's standards...
I am one of those people... I really wanted to love this game... And went back and tried to repeatedly(spent like a week trying) and just couldn't...
FFXI released 8 years ago. Even if they hadn't made the claim in interviews, it is reasonable to assume that after 8 years they would bring us an mmorpg with an up to date interface, rather than a dated POS.
The game fails in a couple of respects:
1) The game is designed to be played on a console. Playing it on a computer without a controller is painful. And to all those people saying "well, if you aren't willing to get a controller you shouldn't complain"... A game targeted at PC gamers should be playable using a variety of HIDs.
2) SE purposefully disabled key features of the user experience in the beta. A good example of this is the hardware mouse. SE claimed that they should have the hardware mouse added in for release... There are already player made patches to enable the hardware mouse, because the support for it is there, SE just disabled it.
3) The gameplay is really weak. Spells require too many presses to get them to go off (with the keyboard, for example, you have to target the monster, hit the spell key, then hit the enter key, every time you want to cast a spell). Combat is stationary and combat animations(that I've seen so far) are boring. You cannot work on more than one quest at a time.
There are other things I could add, but I don't really need to go further...
You asked what the point is... The point is that we really wanted to love this game, and the game SE has made isn't the game we were told we would be getting, and however much we want to love it, it isn't enough to overlook all of the games faults.
I'm not bored when I play it, the UI was pleanty intuitive for me to follow it, and what you call "lacking [...] a general sense of direction" I call "not being lead around by the nose."
So basically, you're just insulting this game baselessly based off of a subjective opinion, like me saying, "being ugly, easy, and stupid doesn't make your mother a fine upstanding individiual, nor does it make her someone I'd want to date."
Of course, I never met your mother, just as it may so happen you've never played this game, this particular example was just to clarify the logical fallacy of the statement using something I hope is at least as near and dear to your heart as a game I enjoy is to mine.
That sure is true. However, each individual game should be judged by its own merits, and if what Final Fantasy XIV brings is enjoyment to be found in the characteristics often associated with MMORPGs, then it's just as innovative as it needs to be. For what it's worth, Final Fantasy XIV's main quest lines actually are heavily story based with frequent, highly-detailed, partly interactive cutscenes, an innovative feature you won't see in many other MMORPGs.
Ah, the players sure are kind to care so much about how much money other people are making... at least when they're trying to force the developers to make changes to their game.
Another example of the topmost paragraph here, subjective opinion being spun to a ridiculous degree.
Yes, that would be a bother. Must be why we did away with the help channels in Final Fantasy XIV.
Sorry i've been playing since muds then m59 then UO i've played EQ when grind was true grind, level 39 hell level going to kunark me with my mage her with her shaman we fought on the sloped for 7 hours and gained 4 pixels thats 4 pixels of xp.
It wasn't fun it wasn't anything but boring moronic grind..
Many games inovate, Anarchy online still has the most indepth char developement system ever.
FFIV is nothing special we both tried the beta and both of us cancelled our pre-order, its not a FF game (especially if you love the old FF7-10) its a mmo with a thin FF glaze, the control system is horrible as are the quests.
or as my wife said and it pretty much somes it up, FFIV is a game without heart it isn't inovative its just ego+developers trying to force me to play with a controller and force me to fit into there limited view.
BTW I love using the ps3/ps2 controller when i'm playing single player games but not mmo's.
In some ways, this is the best critique I've heard yet.
I've been playing muds since they were text-based BBS door games where we logged in, one-player-at-a-time, on a 300 baud modem. I think if you really look at any MMORPG, they're all nothing "but a boring moronic grind," If you focus on that level bar, that's all your going to see: pixels appearing within it. World of Warcraft entertained me for a total of four weeks before I burned out and quit it, and I absolutely loathed Anarchy Online. Yes, I have played the greater bulk of the Final Fantasy games though, fickle gamer that I am, I only ever finished 7.
Even then, after all that, It took me much deliberation (about 100 hours into the Open Beta) before I decided to go ahead and buy the game. Upon which I decided I'll happily grind Final Fantasy XIV because, for me, the game does have heart and does innovate in the right places. It's the journey, not the destination, or so we tell ourselves, and I have to say this is a hella cool journey for me.
Just to make it real clear: It's subjective, neither of us are wrong in our subjective perspectives. It's only when we've got folk in here trying to convince us that we're wrong to like the game that it annoys me, and frankly you went slightly over the line by insisting the game is just a moronic grind, doesn't innovate, and worst of all, doesn't have heart.
I'd bet money that 90% of the people complaining about FFXIV will be playing it at launch.
You can grind in WoW if you so choose, to gain mounts or whatever the fuck, but don't come here saying it's the same thing as being forced to grind to gain levels. WoW has quests. FFXIV has small number of quests, you need to grind your ass of to advance. Yes, it's still beta, things will change. But only to a degree, asians love their mob-spam.
Rofl. I bet you're also the person that put their money into Enron if you're betting with those numbers.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
I'll take that bet sir. In any case, what difference does it make? Real criticism isn't strictly negative. It's come to the point on these forums that if someone posts something even slightly negative, no matter how constructive, the FF Fan Squad jumps into overdrive telling everybody why they're wrong. Just like people have opinions that the game is good, people also have opinions that the game is bad. I will never understand why people that can't stand criticism choose to post on MMORPG.com instead of a fansite where most people think the game is good. It's like the fans enjoy the trolling/hating/negativity here. Bunch of masochists if you ask me.
In any case, I will likely be one of the people who *GASP* complains and gripes about FFXIV, but will still likely play. Please forgive me for wanting the game to improve from its shabby state.
I do not know OP, sounds like a bash on WoW and its player base instead of a support for FF14. I mean "To many games are easy mode now because of WoW" statement says that "its all WoW's fault that FF14 is made for....whom? Really, do you think many other games decided to develope there game per your experience because of WoW? I think not.
From what I am reading on this site and many others, FF14 needs some...work and not be released like recent other AAA MMORPG's that are half ready for release. At least this is the information on most sites I visited;
"A lot of work needs to be done to improve the general user experience, and I hope that Square Enix will listen to their soon-to-be consumers as in its current state Final Fantasy XIV is not worth the buying price yet alone the monthly fee. Considering the game is less than a month away from shipping, that's not a good thing."
http://www.onrpg.com/MMO/Final-Fantasy-XIV/interview/Final-Fantasy-XIV-Beta-Preview-The-Game-So-Far
My point is simple, remove the reported issues and the population will increase along with the fun factor. At least that is where I stand regarding FF14, a game I would love to enjoy not for hand holding but for story line and community. In short, bashing other players and claiming that they have no clue of what a real MMORPG is about appears as an ego inflated issue.
Technically speaking, you're still grinding, all quest really adds is context: a reason why you're grinding. However, at the end of the day, you're still killing ten rats, and the technical difference with a quest as opposed to without is we move a portion of that xp and loot off the rats and onto the quest completion reward and we wrote a bit of text that explains why it was necessary to kill those rats.
Granted, context is nice to have. I, like you, do like to know I'm not just killing stuff for no damn reason other than it moves and when I hit it loot comes out, like some kind of belligerant digital pinyata. Which is why I'm glad to say that FInal Fantasy XIV has significant context, both in the Guildleves and most importantly in the elaborate quest number, which, for the most part, was saved for release (which is why the beta client is 1/3rd the size of the release client).
That said, there's always such a thing as too much of a good thing, and quest-driven games rub me that way. After awhile, it becomes pretty clear to me that this is just a linear (maybe branched) procession of areas with tiered mobs and assoicated quests, at which point the sense of it being a virtual world dies. I get pointed to the next area where I find the big exclaimation points over NPC heads and think to myself, "am I an adventurer yet? No, I'm just a tourist being directed through a procession of theme parks."
The "limited number of guildleves" approach is more immersive for me, the idea that you're going out and slaying x number of mobs in a limited number of availabe quests feels more like a bounty bounty board in an existing virtual world. This is reinforced by having to go out into that virtual world and hunt them without a quest if you want to progress outside of guildleves. That mobs get nastier the further away from town feels nonlinear if I imagine civilization would have hacked back the nastier threats (and actually, there's big pockets of nastier mobs closer to civiliation in the midst of weaker mobs, so I guess it's not completely linear and more realistic).
Final Fantasy XIV is not based off of Lineage II, it's based off of Final Fantasy XI. Final Fantasy XI was not based off of Lineage, it was based off of EverQuest, a western game. So calling it an asian grinder is very inaccurate, and not a little racist. About the only thing I could say about it being Asian is that they've put a Japanese-friendly console interface on it, but you know, it's not like I've never played a JRPG before, and neither has anyone else who has ever played any of the world-famous Final Fantasy series.
FFXI had a metric shit-ton of grind that permeated every aspect of the game. I'm not sure if you played the same game as me. It's an Asian MMO, and it has epic grind. Hence, Asian grinder. XI is my most beloved MMO of all time, but times have changed since then, and I simply won't pay $15 a month to kill blue crabs for six months... after the blue crabs I get to kill pink birds for the rest of my life.
I'm upset with XIV because it hasn't evolved in a positive way from XI at all. I may as well continue to play XI.
If you've played EverQuest, then you should know that that game, too, was an epic grind. That's right, the epic grind was invented right here on American terra firma, before "casual-friendliness" became everybody's favorite buzz word. Not being able to progress past level 8-15 (depending on class) unless you were in a team or resorted to a tactic other than toe-to-toe fighting (only available to a few classes)? That was ours.
Granted, EverQuest became considerably more soloable later, primarily because there was a massive loot creep that trivialized lower level content after awhile. They also added a bit of a quest line to ease in the new players. Although those quests come to an abrupt end at about the point where you join the main game.
However, at the beginning and for several years afterwards, there was only really basic quests, you'd just go out and kill stuff in a team, and 99.5% of the time there was no quest related to that. It was considered a massive success, everybody was trying to copy EverQuest, and the players loved it (all the way up until burnout - just like any other MMORPG). People who enjoy Final Fantasy XI and (to a lesser extent, as it is a has provided some avenues of casual-friendly play) XIV, still do.
The main problem with this game is the UI. It is just awful. And since this game is introduced to PCs first, it is a bad excuse to claim that one should use a game pad because the game is developed for PS3.
It is also pretty retarded to claim that the game is somehow "harder", if it has a maze of menus to navigate just to use basic actions andn functtions. No it's not harder, it is just clunkier i.e. more horribly designed than better games out there.
It is good to keep in mind that other games have been developed for both consoles and PCs and do not suffer from this. User Interface Design is not exactly a new field.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
All the above are as pointless as virtual worlds.
Sex is as pointless as an MMO? You are a strange person. Gamers wonder why they are protrayed as basement dwellers who are socially retarded... here's why.
It's kind of absurd that the FF14 fans can't post what they like about the game. Just what they dislike about WoW...
If you like grinding why does it bother you that people say it's just a grinder?
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Cant belive people actually arguing that guys post.
Unbelivable.
Can't believe people actually can't believe that people are believably biting at trollbait. Believe.
Unbelivable.
I wasn't ever asked. But since you want to know I'll tell you!
15 member parties
AI movements (not as good as DF at ALL but it's better than them just standing there.
Harvesting
The Quests
The Environment
The community
The Soundtrack
I really like the lore that I've managed to read up on thus far
I love the player site SE made
I'm really intrigued about the Company features
I love the mob movement
The fact I can mix and match armor
The classes
They way I can use skills with other classes
character Creation
Roleplaying
Linkshells
I love how I suck at cooking
I love the tools
And I love the UI (it's refreshing)
I could probably hit 50 but I won't bore you to death...Since you really honestly didn't care in the first place.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
Well I'm glad there are masochists and sadists out there. The real FFXIV open beta starts soon, you can pay to play it and help fix it up so that in a few months I and the other reasonable people can sub and enjoy it. Thanks.
You are very welcome. =D I'm going to enjoy being 20-40 levels ahead of you btw time you get around to playing. If ever. And then I'm going to enjoy giving you advice that will screw up your character into next doomsday.
HAHAHA Just KIDDING! It's my pleasure. I love helping out lazy POS's. =D Can't wait to see you in game.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
To be fair, that's the reality in every MMO these days.
I played the closed and Open beta and will probably play but not at release. I enjoyed the experience as its my first taste of FF.
Seriously can we drop the notion that this game is hardcore or has a steep learning curve, just because you have to spend half an hour talking to tons of npcs untill you find the one that repairs your gear. Thats not hardcore, just a timesink. And thats just 1 random example.
Geldon, this is why we pay u the big bucks
QFMFT
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins