Play another combat job? You know the fatigue is per a job not per a type of job right? And, well maybe you should just pay extra for a toon...
Marmots are just squirrels. They can't fool me. They call them Marmots, but I know they're just stinkin squirrels. And well, you see. I had a conjurer/ther and was leveling them both up on the same character, and you see.......I really don't feel like killing those damn squirrels.....ooops, I mean Marmots a second and third time to level up each class. One of my breaking points is when I graduated in my late teen levels to killing.......Ladybugs.
Im gonna stop right there.
Ladybugs.
How Epic.......I graduated to killing.....Ladybugs.
And this is why I just can't do the final fantasy thing, I mean honestly as if it isn't bad enough I'm going to be bottlenecked into playing a certain way when I am finally able to gain full benefit from combat again I can go from squirrels to lady bugs. Do people other than girls and maybe emo guys like rpg's like this?
Haha, this is my favorite post in this thread! Amen
can't knock the logic here... I'm personally a quester in these types of games but guess what I can do 8 combat related quests and 8 crafting quests in any given 36 hours? WTF
You play by the rules set out by the game devs, doesnt matter how much you pay or the fact that your paying, you play by there rules, this is how every game in existance works, get over it.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Speaking in general, I have no respect at all for players who don't have at least a glimmer of an idea what they're getting into when they first start playing a new MMORPG. Such naivete was cute and charming before the major launches of all these new MMORPG's the last few years, but now it's just sheer stupidity and laziness.
And then people like that come on forums to whine even more and to ask for a pat on their back for their whining because they suck at managing their expectations and doing some read ups before buying a game. Wow... just wow.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I dont like this "pay Fatigue system". the current system is sweet an balanced an like that for a huge reason. theres lots of other games that don't have that an you skip too much of the game content that way. this is more board imo. it would also imbalance whats already there... you should go to the SE website an suggest this one to their site they have suggestion area if you have that in mind, good luck man :P
I dont like this "pay Fatigue system". the current system is sweet an balanced an like that for a huge reason. theres lots of other games that don't have that an you skip too much of the game content that way. this is more board imo. it would also imbalance whats already there... you should go to the SE website an suggest this one to their site they have suggestion area if you have that in mind, good luck man :P
If I wanted to focus on Story I would play an RPG, FFXIV has a pretty solid story but it's just another half baked MMO story like all of them with my graphics and cut scenes. It's not going to even compete on a single player RPG level. Also why i'm skepticle of KoR, being made my a company who makes very deep games but it's in MMO form.. how is that going to limit the rest of the game? No PvP and 8 quests every 36 hours?
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
Sad but true, this is not the casual players game, nor the hardcore players game. The rich kid can play normal by hitting up mama for additional funds in order to build up many toons to the....players who are willing to pay/play per developers way. One thing is certain....I SAVED MYSELF A TON OF MONEY ON MORE THAN MY CAR INSURANCE. Certainly, the downfall of the game will take with it this dictatorship way of playing.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I dunno, this system promotes the use of other classes, crafting, and the diversification of the market. I kind of like it now that I've played in it for several weeks now (including beta).
I dont like this "pay Fatigue system". the current system is sweet an balanced an like that for a huge reason. theres lots of other games that don't have that an you skip too much of the game content that way. this is more board imo. it would also imbalance whats already there... you should go to the SE website an suggest this one to their site they have suggestion area if you have that in mind, good luck man :P
If I wanted to focus on Story I would play an RPG, FFXIV has a pretty solid story but it's just another half baked MMO story like all of them with my graphics and cut scenes. It's not going to even compete on a single player RPG level. Also why i'm skepticle of KoR, being made my a company who makes very deep games but it's in MMO form.. how is that going to limit the rest of the game? No PvP and 8 quests every 36 hours?
I dunno, this system promotes the use of other classes, crafting, and the diversification of the market. I kind of like it now that I've played in it for several weeks now (including beta).
If you like it, that is fine, but is it fair to those who don't like it?
In other words, what if you've always played a caster and have never had an interest in playing a melee? Or always played a melee and have no interest playing a caster? Or perhaps have no interest in crafting or gathering. Why are some of you flipping your noses up at people who are not unlike yourselves, meaning they also like final fantasy because otherwise they wouldn't have supported SE by buying the game, but simply have a problem with this heavy-handed system of forcing players to play a game the way they don't want to play it?
Honestly, and this question goes out to the hardcore final fantasy fans ... Why are you so vehemently supporting this system? I mean, it's ok to love the game and yet agree that this is not a very good system. We don't have to like *everything* about the game, do we?
Now, I presume that it would be much more understandable to those who don't like the system, if the game's supporters would simply admit that despite this flawed system, you still love the game. And that if one is not able to tolerate the system to the point that one is not able to derive enjoyment out of the game because of it, then the only obvious option would be to not play.
Who can argue with that logic?
But this isn't what most of the game's supporters are doing. What you are doing is, for some reason, defending the system as being a good system, and trying to convince others that it's a good thing, when it's clearly not a good thing. Why? Because limiting a players options, and forcing a player to play a game in a way that is not enjoyable to the player, is never a good thing. That's just common sense, and frankly, just generally not a good way to do business.
This is so clear and obvious that there should be no disagreement on atleast this point, about this game. But, for some reason, some feel that they have to support everything about the game, even though some of it may be flawed.
I dunno, this system promotes the use of other classes, crafting, and the diversification of the market. I kind of like it now that I've played in it for several weeks now (including beta).
If you like it, that is fine, but is it fair to those who don't like it?
In other words, (snips)
A few flaws in your logic:
- as a caster, you can still learn other caster disciplines, in fact, it's advisable to do so.
- some people have no problem with that system, a number among them might even like the gaming style and culture it promotes. Why should they feel like you feel about it? Why would they have to 'admit' to anything you want them admit to, simply because it's about how you see things?
- about limitations: the discussion is an interesting one, but hardly relevant. You hold a debate about players being limited in their options, while another person could argue with you that ALL themepark MMO's limit you in your options compared to good sandbox MMO's. Like with the dumbed down crafting in other MMO's that's far from what UO had. Or the limitations in classes, where you can't construct your own build and skill set.
In your words, such limitations would be "not a good way to do business."
In short: FFXIV has limitations, just as other MMO's have limitations one way or another. It's just that you - and others - have gotten used to some of those limitations in other games and accepted them. But only a fool would deny that as good as all MMORPG's have limitations in some ways when compared to other MMO's, especially the themepark MMO's.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I dunno, this system promotes the use of other classes, crafting, and the diversification of the market. I kind of like it now that I've played in it for several weeks now (including beta).
If you like it, that is fine, but is it fair to those who don't like it?
In other words, (snips)
A few flaws in your logic:
- as a caster, you can still learn other caster disciplines, in fact, it's advisable to do so.
Ok, fair enough. But the point was missed. Maybe people want to play *one particular* discipline. I am sure they will appreciate your friendly and "advisable nudge" to do otherwise, but "thanks, but no thanks."
- some people have no problem with that system, a number among them might even like the gaming style and culture it promotes. Why should they feel like you feel about it? Why would they have to 'admit' to anything you want them admit to, simply because it's about how you see things?
I agree with you that people are entitled to like what they want to like, and I think I mentioned as much in my post. My point being, tolerance and consideration are great traits, being stubborn is not. In other words, you are completely correct, they do not have to admit anything. Having said that, would it make you a lesser person to understand the flaws in a system and acknowldege those flaws, even though you yourself may not have a problem with them?
- about limitations: the discussion is an interesting one, but hardly relevant. You hold a debate about players being limited in their options, while another person could argue with you that ALL themepark MMO's limit you in your options compared to good sandbox MMO's. Like with the dumbed down crafting in other MMO's that's far from what UO had. Or the limitations in classes, where you can't construct your own build and skill set.
In your words, such limitations would be "not a good way to do business."
Are we comparing FFXIV to a sandbox MMO? If yes, then you are right, it would be hardly relevant. If we are comparing FFXIV to other themepark MMO's, which I think is the case here, then I would think it to be very relevant. In other words, when comparing apples, it is always better to compare them to other apples because comparing them to ranges would be hardly relevant. I understand this concept.
In short: FFXIV has limitations, just as other MMO's have limitations one way or another. It's just that you - and others - have gotten used to some of those limitations in other games and accepted them. But only a fool would deny that as good as all MMORPG's have limitations in some ways when compared to other MMO's, especially the themepark MMO's.
Ok, fair enough. But the point was missed. Maybe people want to play *one particular* discipline. I am sure they will appreciate your friendly and "advisable nudge" to do otherwise, but "thanks, but no thanks."
I doubt if you will be as effective and versatile in the higher levels with only 1 discpinline learnt as someone who has learnt more, but I agree, if you don't like to learn more disciplines in whatever direction, then you might not like this system in FFXIV.
I agree with you that people are entitled to like what they want to like, and I think I mentioned as much in my post. My point being, tolerance and consideration are great traits, being stubborn is not. In other words, you are completely correct, they do not have to admit anything. Having said that, would it make you a lesser person to understand the flaws in a system and acknowldege those flaws, even though you yourself may not have a problem with them?
That's the point: some of these features that you consider flaws are design decisions, which leads to either disagree with their design decision, tolerate it, or like their feature. Excessive lag or crashing are flaws, a fatigue system is a design decision.
Are we comparing FFXIV to a sandbox MMO? If yes, then you are right, it would be hardly relevant. If we are comparing FFXIV to other themepark MMO's, which I think is the case here, then I would think it to be very relevant. In other words, when comparing apples, it is always better to compare them to other apples because comparing them to ranges would be hardly relevant. I understand this concept.
We were talking limitations in MMO features, which each MMO has in one way or the other, regardless what kind of MMO it is. You might dislike the fatigue system or the non-AH system in FFXIV, other players might tolerate or like it. Other MMO gamers might dislike the restrictiveness in class and skills choice in other MMO's or the limitedness in their crafting, you might tolerate or like these features.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
So, since I bought the SE of this game to play it 8 days before anyone else, I thought I was going to get a head start. Instead I ran into the fatigue system. Now, I am ok with the fatigue system...............if SE is ok with my new fatigue payment system. Seeing as it literally stops me from playing how I want. Seeings as I am mostly into combat in games. I feel that I should pay them for as much as they allow me to play. He is an idea. I give square Enix $5 a month. Why? Because the games I already pay $15 for a month allow me to play them as much as I want, as well as offering lots of content. However, it seems rather ridiculous I pay the $15 a month for this game just so I can log in for a few meager hours a week to keep my players level up. So, unless SE introduces my newly thought up fatigue payment system there is no way I will be subbing after my free month. Its simply an insult to all the other game companies that work their butt off to offer me lots of great content for my $15 a month. Oh yea, and they allow me too play as much as the content as I want. Gotta love em. As far as SE, get the heck out of my county, your nothing but crooks!
I played for 8-10 hours a day and for the most part played one class, and when I got to level 18, I still did not have fatigue. This game doesn't punish over playing, this game punishes people who play so much that it is impossible for them to be grooming and eating properly, and keeping them from finding a damn job.
Thanks for the heads-up on this. I wasn't sure if I wanted to try XIV or not, now I know to steer clear. Sorry it had to be on your dime. I'll never understand why a) some players get upset when other people play more, harder, longer or why b) stupid game companies give in to them.
Best advice is to find games either where whiny bitches don't play or the dev laughs at them as hard as you do.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
Thanks for the heads-up on this. I wasn't sure if I wanted to try XIV or not, now I know to steer clear. Sorry it had to be on your dime. I'll never understand why a) some players get upset when other people play more, harder, longer or why b) stupid game companies give in to them.
Best advice is to find games either where whiny bitches don't play or the dev laughs at them as hard as you do.
Heh, funny, epic fail of understanding.
You got it wrong, the game company in this case didn'tgive in, namely to hardcore gamers who want to speedrush to level cap. And obviously some players as the OP get upset about that.
I assume that the best thing to do for as you say it the 'whiny bitches' that can't accept such a system, is to find another MMO that doesn't have such a MMO feature
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Thanks for the heads-up on this. I wasn't sure if I wanted to try XIV or not, now I know to steer clear. Sorry it had to be on your dime. I'll never understand why a) some players get upset when other people play more, harder, longer or why b) stupid game companies give in to them.
Best advice is to find games either where whiny bitches don't play or the dev laughs at them as hard as you do.
Heh, funny, epic fail of understanding.
You got it wrong, the game company in this case didn'tgive in, namely to hardcore gamers who want to speedrush to level cap. And obviously some players as the OP get upset about that.
I assume that the best thing to do for as you say it the 'whiny bitches' that can't accept such a system, is to find another MMO that doesn't have such a MMO feature
On side A, you have artificial limits.
On side B, you have no artificial limits.
I prefer side B and tend to think that side A is often used to hide the fact that late game experiences are not yet in the game. Really, the only valid argument I see to artificially limit the pace of play (outside of the leveling systems) is to make sure people don't get to see what's at the top. They let people see the unfinished in Vanguard and I think it really hurt that game.
The other one would be to help make the casual players not feel left behind. I personally don't accept this as an argument at all for an MMORPG that I would like to play in.
First let me say I've been looking forward to this game till the fatigue idea. Canceled immediately my preorder, stopped playing beta aso.
So the best way to let SE know that this system (no matter how they stress it), is a disgrace would be to simple not buying, paying for their "services". Voicing your concerns alone isn't going to make them think about the stupity of this system.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
First let me say I've been looking forward to this game till the fatigue idea. Canceled immediately my preorder, stopped playing beta aso.
So the best way to let SE know that this system (no matter how they stress it), is a disgrace would be to simple not buying, paying for their "services". Voicing your concerns alone isn't going to make them think about the stupity of this system.
Good point made which one starts to think the more and more you see posts like this (which of course we will), it just seems that such a central feature with so many actually in favor of it won't change from a bunch of forum debating, this isn't like trying to convince Cryptic to include ship interiors and death penalties.
If you want to send SE a message that this kind of feature brings down your gameplay experience enough to effect there bottom line you'll probably have to not sub (and hope enough people feel like you to matter).
I'm a big Final Fantasy fan but I'm just not fond of the philosophies they seem to follow or the designs they use in the mmo's they make so unfortunately I have yet to be able to enjoy one of my staple rpg franchises as an mmo, the good thing about mmo's though is there are just so many to choose from.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
On side B, you have no artificial limits. Wrong, on side B, you have other artifical limits that are more common - and accepted - in MMO's, see my posts above. I'm pretty sure that MMO gamers who've played sandbox MMO's or oldschool MMO's laugh at any announcement of other gamers that themepark MMO's don't have artificial limits. Players merely have learnt to live with them and accept them.
I prefer side B and tend to think that side A is often used to hide the fact that late game experiences are not yet in the game. Really, the only valid argument I see to artificially limit the pace of play (outside of the leveling systems) is to make sure people don't get to see what's at the top. They let people see the unfinished in Vanguard and I think it really hurt that game.
They've explained why the Fatigue system was built in, there's also a pretty good video around explaining it, it's pretty obvious that they wanted to pace the leveling progression and they did it in this unorthodox way.
People who are familiar with lateral/horizontal leveling (ie skills progression/gathering) at level cap shouldn't be that unfamiliar with FFXIV's system, only here you'll do more horizontal leveling on your journey to level cap, not only horizontal leveling at level cap.
The other one would be to help make the casual players not feel left behind. I personally don't accept this as an argument at all for an MMORPG that I would like to play in.
That's ok. It's a design choice they built in, no MMO gamer has to like all the features in the MMO they play, or if the dislikes are too much, they don't have to accept to play a MMO. There's enough MMO's around to cater to a large variety of tastes.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
On side B, you have no artificial limits. Wrong, on side B, you have other artifical limits that are more common - and accepted - in MMO's, see my posts above. I'm pretty sure that MMO gamers who've played sandbox MMO's or oldschool MMO's laugh at any announcement of other gamers that themepark MMO's don't have artificial limits. Players merely have learnt to live with them and accept them.
I prefer side B and tend to think that side A is often used to hide the fact that late game experiences are not yet in the game. Really, the only valid argument I see to artificially limit the pace of play (outside of the leveling systems) is to make sure people don't get to see what's at the top. They let people see the unfinished in Vanguard and I think it really hurt that game.
They've explained why the Fatigue system was built in, there's also a pretty good video around explaining it, it's pretty obvious that they wanted to pace the leveling progression and they did it in this unorthodox way.
People who are familiar with lateral/horizontal leveling (ie skills progression/gathering) at level cap shouldn't be that unfamiliar with FFXIV's system, only here you'll do more horizontal leveling on your journey to level cap, not only horizontal leveling at level cap.
The other one would be to help make the casual players not feel left behind. I personally don't accept this as an argument at all for an MMORPG that I would like to play in.
That's ok. It's a design choice they built in, no MMO gamer has to like all the features in the MMO they play, or if the dislikes are too much, they don't have to accept to play a MMO. There's enough MMO's around to cater to a large variety of tastes.
Whelp, yeap, I disagree.
All MMORPGs have limits. The particular limits in this game feel more artificial than other games. I think there are a lot of others that agree with that sentiment. For instance, I thought the level cap was 50 in all classes. I was wrong, it's actually 30 or something at this point. Whole zones for level 30 or above are locked off. Preventing people from doing quests is strange to me as well.
And yes, it does have a more horizontal feel to it. Once you hit the cap of level 30 or whatever, it's time to move onto something else. Sure it caters to a certain taste, but there is also a certain level of deception when it came to what the max level would be at release. It's not 50. Which I find mildly ridiculous.
I find it interesting you said it stopped you. You must play a lot then because i know quite a few "hardcore" gamers that have yet to deal with the surplus mainly because you have to hit 20 in a week at least thats the current estimate. Which is very high plus is the surplus is givign you a problem you should probably start crafting my guess would be if your hitting the surplus your an extremely high lvl which means you have very few people to play with my sugguestion to you is to craft until a majority of the players start to catch up to you. Final Fantasy Xiv is ment to be a team game and not really a rush to cap game its more about grouping and helping friends out.
Edit:plus its not like they didnt tell you that there was a surplus system
If your going to ban the trolls please for our sake ban the Fan Boys too.
Thanks for the heads-up on this. I wasn't sure if I wanted to try XIV or not, now I know to steer clear. Sorry it had to be on your dime. I'll never understand why a) some players get upset when other people play more, harder, longer or why b) stupid game companies give in to them.
Best advice is to find games either where whiny bitches don't play or the dev laughs at them as hard as you do.
Heh, funny, epic fail of understanding.
You got it wrong, the game company in this case didn'tgive in, namely to hardcore gamers who want to speedrush to level cap. And obviously some players as the OP get upset about that.
I assume that the best thing to do for as you say it the 'whiny bitches' that can't accept such a system, is to find another MMO that doesn't have such a MMO feature
There is no failure of understanding. And we agree that the best t hing to do is for people who don't like the limitation to play something else. So what the purpose of your post was is a mystery to me.
As a later poster pointed out, its a question of artificial limitations vs no artificial limitations. Games originally didn't implement mechanisms like this fatigue system. The motivation to put them in didn't come from out of the blue, and I'm not saying game devs are wrong for doing it. Play to market demand, fine. Just don't expect me to pay for it.
The incomprehensible part -- yes I will confess to not understanding this -- is why a casual gamer *cares* what other people do. There's no PVP, so why should one player care whether someone else gets more powerful faster? Hell even if there WAS PVP in this game, there would still be people at your level to fight with, so why care that some hardcore guy got the brass ring before you did?
Sour grapes I understand. Envy and spite I understand. But are those valid reasons to complain about someone like the OP and his playstyle?
Anyway, at the end of the day we can all hope that the market is big enoug hso that hardcore players can find games without this kind of restriction, and you all can find a game where no one is allowed to have more fun than you're having.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
There is no failure of understanding. Yes, there was, and I get to it somewhat later in this post.
The incomprehensible part -- yes I will confess to not understanding this -- is why a casual gamer *cares* what other people do. There's no PVP, so why should one player care whether someone else gets more powerful faster? Hell even if there WAS PVP in this game, there would still be people at your level to fight with, so why care that some hardcore guy got the brass ring before you did?
Sour grapes I understand. Envy and spite I understand. But are those valid reasons to complain about someone like the OP and his playstyle?
Here's where you're mixing things up: you present it as if the Fatigue System is the result of some massive complaints from all kinds of casual gamers and FFXIV fans. It is not.
SE opted for that design and explained why they wanted to do it (Fatigue System).
FFXIV players who had no qualms about it just accepted it, understood it and/or tolerated it as a game feature.
Or to mirror your question, why should a casual gamer care if a hardcore gamer hits the ceiling of the Fatigue System? It's not as if it's something that he himself is hindered by.
Anyway, at the end of the day we can all hope that the market is big enoug hso that hardcore players can find games without this kind of restriction, and you all can find a game where no one is allowed to have more fun than you're having.
Sure, enough MMO's around for people to have fun with.
Regarding the OP, I don't know about other posters' stance, but my stance is, I can understand if it's something that a number of FFXIV mechanics aren't up his alley, as I said, enough MMO's around to cater a wide variety of MMO tastes.
However, someone who had no idea how FFXIV's gameplay was set up and went into it with his eyes closed and then is suddenly surprised that some aspects in FFXIV are new to him and not to his liking, and this after the years of bad MMO launches there have been... sorry, but I myself find people who don't do the slightest bit of research before diving into a new MMO and then fail to manage their expectations laughable.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
sorry, but I myself find people who don't do the slightest bit of research before diving into a new MMO and then fail to manage their expectations laughable.
Kind of harsh. I guess those players deserve what they get in your view.
On the flip side, Square/Enix deserves to bleed customers for implementing the systems that turn off so many players. In particular, a level and content cap that was NOT brought forward to the public pre-release.
Comments
Haha, this is my favorite post in this thread! Amen
You play by the rules set out by the game devs, doesnt matter how much you pay or the fact that your paying, you play by there rules, this is how every game in existance works, get over it.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Speaking in general, I have no respect at all for players who don't have at least a glimmer of an idea what they're getting into when they first start playing a new MMORPG. Such naivete was cute and charming before the major launches of all these new MMORPG's the last few years, but now it's just sheer stupidity and laziness.
And then people like that come on forums to whine even more and to ask for a pat on their back for their whining because they suck at managing their expectations and doing some read ups before buying a game. Wow... just wow.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I dont like this "pay Fatigue system". the current system is sweet an balanced an like that for a huge reason. theres lots of other games that don't have that an you skip too much of the game content that way. this is more board imo. it would also imbalance whats already there... you should go to the SE website an suggest this one to their site they have suggestion area if you have that in mind, good luck man :P
If I wanted to focus on Story I would play an RPG, FFXIV has a pretty solid story but it's just another half baked MMO story like all of them with my graphics and cut scenes. It's not going to even compete on a single player RPG level. Also why i'm skepticle of KoR, being made my a company who makes very deep games but it's in MMO form.. how is that going to limit the rest of the game? No PvP and 8 quests every 36 hours?
"Sometimes people say stuff they don''t mean, but more often then that they don''t say things they do mean"
Sad but true, this is not the casual players game, nor the hardcore players game. The rich kid can play normal by hitting up mama for additional funds in order to build up many toons to the....players who are willing to pay/play per developers way. One thing is certain....I SAVED MYSELF A TON OF MONEY ON MORE THAN MY CAR INSURANCE. Certainly, the downfall of the game will take with it this dictatorship way of playing.
I you want all the MMORPG's to be the same, with the exact same set of features and mechanics, then that's the right way of thinking, yes.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I dunno, this system promotes the use of other classes, crafting, and the diversification of the market. I kind of like it now that I've played in it for several weeks now (including beta).
You just wanna kill others don't you lol?
If you like it, that is fine, but is it fair to those who don't like it?
In other words, what if you've always played a caster and have never had an interest in playing a melee? Or always played a melee and have no interest playing a caster? Or perhaps have no interest in crafting or gathering. Why are some of you flipping your noses up at people who are not unlike yourselves, meaning they also like final fantasy because otherwise they wouldn't have supported SE by buying the game, but simply have a problem with this heavy-handed system of forcing players to play a game the way they don't want to play it?
Honestly, and this question goes out to the hardcore final fantasy fans ... Why are you so vehemently supporting this system? I mean, it's ok to love the game and yet agree that this is not a very good system. We don't have to like *everything* about the game, do we?
Now, I presume that it would be much more understandable to those who don't like the system, if the game's supporters would simply admit that despite this flawed system, you still love the game. And that if one is not able to tolerate the system to the point that one is not able to derive enjoyment out of the game because of it, then the only obvious option would be to not play.
Who can argue with that logic?
But this isn't what most of the game's supporters are doing. What you are doing is, for some reason, defending the system as being a good system, and trying to convince others that it's a good thing, when it's clearly not a good thing. Why? Because limiting a players options, and forcing a player to play a game in a way that is not enjoyable to the player, is never a good thing. That's just common sense, and frankly, just generally not a good way to do business.
This is so clear and obvious that there should be no disagreement on atleast this point, about this game. But, for some reason, some feel that they have to support everything about the game, even though some of it may be flawed.
It's not really that serious, is it?
A few flaws in your logic:
- as a caster, you can still learn other caster disciplines, in fact, it's advisable to do so.
- some people have no problem with that system, a number among them might even like the gaming style and culture it promotes. Why should they feel like you feel about it? Why would they have to 'admit' to anything you want them admit to, simply because it's about how you see things?
- about limitations: the discussion is an interesting one, but hardly relevant. You hold a debate about players being limited in their options, while another person could argue with you that ALL themepark MMO's limit you in your options compared to good sandbox MMO's. Like with the dumbed down crafting in other MMO's that's far from what UO had. Or the limitations in classes, where you can't construct your own build and skill set.
In your words, such limitations would be "not a good way to do business."
In short: FFXIV has limitations, just as other MMO's have limitations one way or another. It's just that you - and others - have gotten used to some of those limitations in other games and accepted them. But only a fool would deny that as good as all MMORPG's have limitations in some ways when compared to other MMO's, especially the themepark MMO's.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
We were talking limitations in MMO features, which each MMO has in one way or the other, regardless what kind of MMO it is. You might dislike the fatigue system or the non-AH system in FFXIV, other players might tolerate or like it. Other MMO gamers might dislike the restrictiveness in class and skills choice in other MMO's or the limitedness in their crafting, you might tolerate or like these features.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I played for 8-10 hours a day and for the most part played one class, and when I got to level 18, I still did not have fatigue. This game doesn't punish over playing, this game punishes people who play so much that it is impossible for them to be grooming and eating properly, and keeping them from finding a damn job.
@OP: I hear ya.
Thanks for the heads-up on this. I wasn't sure if I wanted to try XIV or not, now I know to steer clear. Sorry it had to be on your dime. I'll never understand why a) some players get upset when other people play more, harder, longer or why b) stupid game companies give in to them.
Best advice is to find games either where whiny bitches don't play or the dev laughs at them as hard as you do.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
Heh, funny, epic fail of understanding.
You got it wrong, the game company in this case didn't give in, namely to hardcore gamers who want to speedrush to level cap. And obviously some players as the OP get upset about that.
I assume that the best thing to do for as you say it the 'whiny bitches' that can't accept such a system, is to find another MMO that doesn't have such a MMO feature
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
On side A, you have artificial limits.
On side B, you have no artificial limits.
I prefer side B and tend to think that side A is often used to hide the fact that late game experiences are not yet in the game. Really, the only valid argument I see to artificially limit the pace of play (outside of the leveling systems) is to make sure people don't get to see what's at the top. They let people see the unfinished in Vanguard and I think it really hurt that game.
The other one would be to help make the casual players not feel left behind. I personally don't accept this as an argument at all for an MMORPG that I would like to play in.
First let me say I've been looking forward to this game till the fatigue idea. Canceled immediately my preorder, stopped playing beta aso.
So the best way to let SE know that this system (no matter how they stress it), is a disgrace would be to simple not buying, paying for their "services". Voicing your concerns alone isn't going to make them think about the stupity of this system.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Good point made which one starts to think the more and more you see posts like this (which of course we will), it just seems that such a central feature with so many actually in favor of it won't change from a bunch of forum debating, this isn't like trying to convince Cryptic to include ship interiors and death penalties.
If you want to send SE a message that this kind of feature brings down your gameplay experience enough to effect there bottom line you'll probably have to not sub (and hope enough people feel like you to matter).
I'm a big Final Fantasy fan but I'm just not fond of the philosophies they seem to follow or the designs they use in the mmo's they make so unfortunately I have yet to be able to enjoy one of my staple rpg franchises as an mmo, the good thing about mmo's though is there are just so many to choose from.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
That's ok. It's a design choice they built in, no MMO gamer has to like all the features in the MMO they play, or if the dislikes are too much, they don't have to accept to play a MMO. There's enough MMO's around to cater to a large variety of tastes.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Whelp, yeap, I disagree.
All MMORPGs have limits. The particular limits in this game feel more artificial than other games. I think there are a lot of others that agree with that sentiment. For instance, I thought the level cap was 50 in all classes. I was wrong, it's actually 30 or something at this point. Whole zones for level 30 or above are locked off. Preventing people from doing quests is strange to me as well.
And yes, it does have a more horizontal feel to it. Once you hit the cap of level 30 or whatever, it's time to move onto something else. Sure it caters to a certain taste, but there is also a certain level of deception when it came to what the max level would be at release. It's not 50. Which I find mildly ridiculous.
I find it interesting you said it stopped you. You must play a lot then because i know quite a few "hardcore" gamers that have yet to deal with the surplus mainly because you have to hit 20 in a week at least thats the current estimate. Which is very high plus is the surplus is givign you a problem you should probably start crafting my guess would be if your hitting the surplus your an extremely high lvl which means you have very few people to play with my sugguestion to you is to craft until a majority of the players start to catch up to you. Final Fantasy Xiv is ment to be a team game and not really a rush to cap game its more about grouping and helping friends out.
Edit:plus its not like they didnt tell you that there was a surplus system
If your going to ban the trolls please for our sake ban the Fan Boys too.
There is no failure of understanding. And we agree that the best t hing to do is for people who don't like the limitation to play something else. So what the purpose of your post was is a mystery to me.
As a later poster pointed out, its a question of artificial limitations vs no artificial limitations. Games originally didn't implement mechanisms like this fatigue system. The motivation to put them in didn't come from out of the blue, and I'm not saying game devs are wrong for doing it. Play to market demand, fine. Just don't expect me to pay for it.
The incomprehensible part -- yes I will confess to not understanding this -- is why a casual gamer *cares* what other people do. There's no PVP, so why should one player care whether someone else gets more powerful faster? Hell even if there WAS PVP in this game, there would still be people at your level to fight with, so why care that some hardcore guy got the brass ring before you did?
Sour grapes I understand. Envy and spite I understand. But are those valid reasons to complain about someone like the OP and his playstyle?
Anyway, at the end of the day we can all hope that the market is big enoug hso that hardcore players can find games without this kind of restriction, and you all can find a game where no one is allowed to have more fun than you're having.
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
Sure, enough MMO's around for people to have fun with.
Regarding the OP, I don't know about other posters' stance, but my stance is, I can understand if it's something that a number of FFXIV mechanics aren't up his alley, as I said, enough MMO's around to cater a wide variety of MMO tastes.
However, someone who had no idea how FFXIV's gameplay was set up and went into it with his eyes closed and then is suddenly surprised that some aspects in FFXIV are new to him and not to his liking, and this after the years of bad MMO launches there have been... sorry, but I myself find people who don't do the slightest bit of research before diving into a new MMO and then fail to manage their expectations laughable.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
sorry, but I myself find people who don't do the slightest bit of research before diving into a new MMO and then fail to manage their expectations laughable.
Kind of harsh. I guess those players deserve what they get in your view.
On the flip side, Square/Enix deserves to bleed customers for implementing the systems that turn off so many players. In particular, a level and content cap that was NOT brought forward to the public pre-release.