It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
no, they complain its worst than wow.
if it was different and better at the same time nobody'd complain.
Well, horrid grammar aside, most of the complaints I have seen that aren't vague allusions to an unfinished product or it's just generally the bane of all existence has been that the UI is unintuitive. This is coming from people that are used to a WoW-like interface...however people that are used to FF11 interface find it to be SOP. It's not better or worse, it's just different.
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
no, they complain its worst than wow.
if it was different and better at the same time nobody'd complain.
Well, horrid grammar aside, most of the complaints I have seen that aren't vague allusions to an unfinished product or it's just generally the bane of all existence has been that the UI is unintuitive. This is coming from people that are used to a WoW-like interface...however people that are used to FF11 interface find it to be SOP. It's not better or worse, it's just different.
Once again.. people complaing because UI is tedious and laggy not because its NOT like WOW. i never played WOW in my life and FFXIV UI is just terrible. What excuse you have for people like me?
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
no, they complain its worst than wow.
if it was different and better at the same time nobody'd complain.
Well, horrid grammar aside, most of the complaints I have seen that aren't vague allusions to an unfinished product or it's just generally the bane of all existence has been that the UI is unintuitive. This is coming from people that are used to a WoW-like interface...however people that are used to FF11 interface find it to be SOP. It's not better or worse, it's just different.
Once again.. people complaing because UI is tedious and laggy not because its NOT like WOW. i never played WOW in my life and FFXIV UI is just terrible. What excuse you have for people like me?
I'd simply say it's something that you are not accustomed to. If you'd give it time it'd become second nature. For example, I use the keypad to move and navigate the menus and it's extremely easy for me. However for someone who is used to using WASD and mouse to move about and navigate menus...I imagine it'd be quite tedious.
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
That is your assumptions so don't try to pass it out like facts. Only because someone don't want to open 9 windows for a simple task doesn't mean they want things that are in WOW. Considering every MMO out there has a working and user friendly inventory system. Whats wrong with having an inventory which can be opened with one click? will that make your game less challenging? ahahaha
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
That is your assumptions so don't try to pass it out like facts. Only because someone don't want to open 9 windows for a simple task doesn't mean they want things that are in WOW. Considering every MMO out there has a working and user friendly inventory system. Whats wrong with having an inventory which can be opened with one click? will that make your game less challenging? ahahaha
It takes two clicks for me to open my inventory...is that really so much of a burden? Have people gotten so ineherently lazy that any sort of minor deterrent is a major inconvience?
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
But it's still a leap none the less.
What they are talking about mainly is the fact that things should become more streamlined as they evolve. A lot of what is found in FFXIV is more of a regression. Different is different and that is ok. But when different is needlessly complex (multiple menu layers, horrible UI, etc) that's not ok.
And that is what a lot of people mean.
FFXIV could still be as different as they want without all the hassle of being unintuitive. The problem is that they designed the game based around one platform and one platform only - the PS3 - with almost no consideration for the PC players to whom the game was marketed towards and released to first. Everything about the usability of the UI screams bad console to PC port.
And that is NOT acceptable.
Because if it were any other game that did that, people like you and the many others who defend this choice would be the ones complaining as well.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
That is your assumptions so don't try to pass it out like facts. Only because someone don't want to open 9 windows for a simple task doesn't mean they want things that are in WOW. Considering every MMO out there has a working and user friendly inventory system. Whats wrong with having an inventory which can be opened with one click? will that make your game less challenging? ahahaha
It takes two clicks for me to open my inventory...is that really so much of a burden? Have people gotten so ineherently lazy that any sort of minor deterrent is a major inconvience?
Really clicking more windows makes you active now? considering you are still sitting on a comfy chair playing video games whole day, isn't that a laziest activity in itself? bad UI is bad no matter how much you defend it.
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
But it's still a leap none the less.
What they are talking about mainly is the fact that things should become more streamlined as they evolve. A lot of what is found in FFXIV is more of a regression. Different is different and that is ok. But when different is needlessly complex (multiple menu layers, horrible UI, etc) that's not ok.
And that is what a lot of people mean.
FFXIV could still be as different as they want without all the hassle of being unintuitive. The problem is that they designed the game based around one platform and one platform only - the PS3 - with almost no consideration for the PC players to whom the game was marketed towards and released to first. Everything about the usability of the UI screams bad console to PC port.
And that is NOT acceptable.
Because if it were any other game that did that, people like you and the many others who defend this choice would be the ones complaining as well.
Actuallly this sentiment is only partially correct. Every Final Fantasy game has always had similar menu systems. The game was designed from the ground up for a PC, but the menu is a legacy from it's console heratage with S-E.
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
But it's still a leap none the less.
What they are talking about mainly is the fact that things should become more streamlined as they evolve. A lot of what is found in FFXIV is more of a regression. Different is different and that is ok. But when different is needlessly complex (multiple menu layers, horrible UI, etc) that's not ok.
And that is what a lot of people mean.
FFXIV could still be as different as they want without all the hassle of being unintuitive. The problem is that they designed the game based around one platform and one platform only - the PS3 - with almost no consideration for the PC players to whom the game was marketed towards and released to first. Everything about the usability of the UI screams bad console to PC port.
And that is NOT acceptable.
Because if it were any other game that did that, people like you and the many others who defend this choice would be the ones complaining as well.
Actuallly this sentiment is only partially correct. Every Final Fantasy game has always had similar menu systems. The game was designed from the ground up for a PC, but the menu is a legacy from it's console heratage with S-E.
No.
The game was designed with the console user in mind. The menu system wasn't a 'legacy' move.
The reason they used the menu system was due to the fact it would be cumbersome to the console players to use a PC interface (not many console users will have a keyboard, leaving them the controller to use).
You can try to justify it as a 'legacy' move all you want, but it's not the true reason for the choice.
And as I said, be it another game that did it and a lot of you would be complaining about it as well.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
But it's still a leap none the less.
What they are talking about mainly is the fact that things should become more streamlined as they evolve. A lot of what is found in FFXIV is more of a regression. Different is different and that is ok. But when different is needlessly complex (multiple menu layers, horrible UI, etc) that's not ok.
And that is what a lot of people mean.
FFXIV could still be as different as they want without all the hassle of being unintuitive. The problem is that they designed the game based around one platform and one platform only - the PS3 - with almost no consideration for the PC players to whom the game was marketed towards and released to first. Everything about the usability of the UI screams bad console to PC port.
And that is NOT acceptable.
Because if it were any other game that did that, people like you and the many others who defend this choice would be the ones complaining as well.
Actuallly this sentiment is only partially correct. Every Final Fantasy game has always had similar menu systems. The game was designed from the ground up for a PC, but the menu is a legacy from it's console heratage with S-E.
No.
The game was designed with the console user in mind. The menu system wasn't a 'legacy' move.
The reason they used the menu system was due to the fact it would be cumbersome to the console players to use a PC interface (not many console users will have a keyboard, leaving them the controller to use).
You can try to justify it as a 'legacy' move all you want, but it's not the true reason for the choice.
And as I said, be it another game that did it and a lot of you would be complaining about it as well.
Yes.
The game was designed from the ground up for a PC. The menu system is a holdover from the other 15 or so Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy 11 had nearly the exact same interface.
You can try to justify your own inability to adapt to the interface on unitutiveness all you want, but it's not the true reason for your problems.
And as I said, people complain that all MMOs are the same, but when one does something new, they complain that it isn't the same.
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
But it's still a leap none the less.
What they are talking about mainly is the fact that things should become more streamlined as they evolve. A lot of what is found in FFXIV is more of a regression. Different is different and that is ok. But when different is needlessly complex (multiple menu layers, horrible UI, etc) that's not ok.
And that is what a lot of people mean.
FFXIV could still be as different as they want without all the hassle of being unintuitive. The problem is that they designed the game based around one platform and one platform only - the PS3 - with almost no consideration for the PC players to whom the game was marketed towards and released to first. Everything about the usability of the UI screams bad console to PC port.
And that is NOT acceptable.
Because if it were any other game that did that, people like you and the many others who defend this choice would be the ones complaining as well.
Actuallly this sentiment is only partially correct. Every Final Fantasy game has always had similar menu systems. The game was designed from the ground up for a PC, but the menu is a legacy from it's console heratage with S-E.
No.
The game was designed with the console user in mind. The menu system wasn't a 'legacy' move.
The reason they used the menu system was due to the fact it would be cumbersome to the console players to use a PC interface (not many console users will have a keyboard, leaving them the controller to use).
You can try to justify it as a 'legacy' move all you want, but it's not the true reason for the choice.
And as I said, be it another game that did it and a lot of you would be complaining about it as well.
Yes.
The game was designed from the ground up for a PC. The menu system is a holdover from the other 15 or so Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy 11 had nearly the exact same interface.
You can try to justify your own inability to adapt to the interface on unitutiveness all you want, but it's not the true reason for your problems.
And as I said, people complain that all MMOs are the same, but when one does something new, they complain that it isn't the same.
See what I did there?
Bwahahaha!
Adapting to an inferior system is something you may swallow and bend over to take in your behind, but I'm not willing to stoop that low. Menu system is fine for a single player RPG, it was acceptable with XI, but in todays time, it's an archaic, lazy way out.
Oh I wholeheartedly agree being different from the pack is a good move. But SEs execution was just horrible. Instead of refining that wheel, they made it into square (pun intended) ones. It works, but it's going to require more effort then it should.
They didn't do anything different, unless a laggy and tedious UI is something you consider challenging and different. (which you clearly believe so)
Challenging? I don't know why you keep hammering at that. I never stated anything about challenge. The MMO itself isn't really anymore challenging than any other MMO out there in terms of difficulty. It just doesn't hold your hand every step of the way like most do. It teaches you some basic things like combat and synthesis, then tosses you in the mix, and it's more or less up to you to sink or swim. I guess people can see that as a challenge, but it's not really.
Anyway, yeah the UI is different...it's not the same as a typical western MMO. Is it worse? I don't think so, it took me a little bit to adapt to but nothing so cumbersome as for me to quit and complain endlessly on some forum about it.
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
But it's still a leap none the less.
What they are talking about mainly is the fact that things should become more streamlined as they evolve. A lot of what is found in FFXIV is more of a regression. Different is different and that is ok. But when different is needlessly complex (multiple menu layers, horrible UI, etc) that's not ok.
And that is what a lot of people mean.
FFXIV could still be as different as they want without all the hassle of being unintuitive. The problem is that they designed the game based around one platform and one platform only - the PS3 - with almost no consideration for the PC players to whom the game was marketed towards and released to first. Everything about the usability of the UI screams bad console to PC port.
And that is NOT acceptable.
Because if it were any other game that did that, people like you and the many others who defend this choice would be the ones complaining as well.
Actuallly this sentiment is only partially correct. Every Final Fantasy game has always had similar menu systems. The game was designed from the ground up for a PC, but the menu is a legacy from it's console heratage with S-E.
No.
The game was designed with the console user in mind. The menu system wasn't a 'legacy' move.
The reason they used the menu system was due to the fact it would be cumbersome to the console players to use a PC interface (not many console users will have a keyboard, leaving them the controller to use).
You can try to justify it as a 'legacy' move all you want, but it's not the true reason for the choice.
And as I said, be it another game that did it and a lot of you would be complaining about it as well.
Yes.
The game was designed from the ground up for a PC. The menu system is a holdover from the other 15 or so Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy 11 had nearly the exact same interface.
You can try to justify your own inability to adapt to the interface on unitutiveness all you want, but it's not the true reason for your problems.
And as I said, people complain that all MMOs are the same, but when one does something new, they complain that it isn't the same.
See what I did there?
It uses nearly the same interface as FFXI because FFXI was designed for the PS2.
FFXIV is a game designed for consoles and built as such. With all the options available in a traditional MMO layout it would have been a nightmare for the console user to preform even half of them on a game pad. That is the reason they stuck with a menu driven system.
As for inability to adapt, thats not it. Anyone can adapt to a system like that. The problem is, why would anyone want to? People have a low tolerance to frustration, and that UI after a few hours becomes more tedious and frustrating than accessible and fun. The point of a UI is to allow you to control game functions while not intruding on overall gameplay. The FFXIV UI intrudes on gameplay as even a simple step can require navigating several menu layers to accomplish. That right there is why everyone complains.
Different is different. Needlessly complicated isn't different, it's just needlessly complicated.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
Has it occured to you that people prefer a single key stroke to open their inventory because it's... oh I don't know... intuitive?
By the by, MMORPGs - including very complex and involved ones - were using single keystroke short-cuts long before WoW released. So it's not even a "WoW-like" issue. Interfaces are supposed to be "invisible" to the player, and serve only to enable the player to play the game. A well-designed and implemented interface shouldn't call attention to itself; FFXIV's interface calls attention to itself on a regular basis.
The quest system in XIV *is* rather lacking, by any standards. SE has put up arbitrary limitations on how many you can do, how often you can do them, and when you can do them. That is *not* innovative, nor is it player-friendly to anyone but those who are okay with playing the game exactly the way SE "wants them to". Though not as restrictive as initially thought, the same could be said for the fatigue system; it's an arbitrary restriction on how people play the game.
In a number of ways, FFXIV's design forces you into having to find other things to keep you occupied until the game's ready to let you do more of what you're actually more interested in. I experienced that a number of times while playing.
SE made some definite gaffes with the design of FFXIV. "Being patient" or "wanting to figure things out on your own" have nothing to do with it. Fundamental, basic gameplay elements should not have to be "figured out". One should not have to "be patient" to figure out the basic controls or interface in a game. That one even needs to make such an argument - "be patient" - underscores that the interface was not well thought out. There are poor, unintuitive and, in a number cases, downright ridiculous design decisions represented in that game.
That said.. I was willing to get past that learning curve and, in fact, did; because I believed it was all part of what would be an ultimately amazing experience. I believed what I was experiencing in Beta was deliberately limited because all SE provided was enough content for us to test. What I didn't realize was that what we saw in Beta *was* pretty much the extent of what the game would offer... and retail would only add on more of the same.
FFXIV is *not* deep, it's *not* complex, nor is it challenging. It's a very basic experience, wrapped in odd design choices, arbitrary limitations and a convoluted and unintuitive user interface/experience.
Some obligatory points for those who may think otherwise:
Yes, I paid $75 to pre-order and bought the game. Yes I played it. I was, in fact, testing the game since Alpha. So, please don't even start lecturing me on "how the game is really set up".
No, I am not a WoW player and, no I do not expect everything to be easy or handed to me on a platter. I played FFXI since NA launch on PC and it remains my favorite all-time MMO. I played it with keyboard only and had no problem with the interface. Prior to that I played Anarchy Online, Shadowbane and Asheron's Call... all MMOs that, decidedly are not "easy mode" MMOs, nor do/did they hand you the game on a silver platter either. So please, no one bother making the canned "you're just a WoW player who wants everything easy mode", 'cause that won't stick either.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The game was designed from the ground up for a PC. The menu system is a holdover from the other 15 or so Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy 11 had nearly the exact same interface.
You can try to justify your own inability to adapt to the interface on unitutiveness all you want, but it's not the true reason for your problems.
And as I said, people complain that all MMOs are the same, but when one does something new, they complain that it isn't the same.
See what I did there?
It uses nearly the same interface as FFXI because FFXI was designed for the PS2.
FFXIV is a game designed for consoles and built as such. With all the options available in a traditional MMO layout it would have been a nightmare for the console user to preform even half of them on a game pad. That is the reason they stuck with a menu driven system.
As for inability to adapt, thats not it. Anyone can adapt to a system like that. The problem is, why would anyone want to? People have a low tolerance to frustration, and that UI after a few hours becomes more tedious and frustrating than accessible and fun. The point of a UI is to allow you to control game functions while not intruding on overall gameplay. The FFXIV UI intrudes on gameplay as even a simple step can require navigating several menu layers to accomplish. That right there is why everyone complains.
Different is different. Needlessly complicated isn't different, it's just needlessly complicated.
100% agree with fyerwall.
I'll add that FFXI's UI never felt nearly as cumbersome as XIV's. It was much more intuitive all the way around, and simple tasks were still simple. There's plenty of ex-FFXI players who feel that way as well. I mean, they've managed to even leave out some simple functionality such as arranging your inventory or fast-scrolling to the bottom of a long list by holding right. Lots of little things like that just somehow went backwards or got completely left out.
Of course, the only thing I've seen that you've done here is to divert the river of issues and problems covered in this review into a narrow channel of "the UI is fine!" vs. "the UI sucks!". Nice tact and all, but you failed to include 'in my opinion' alongside all your points, and the fact remains that the complaints go far beyond justthe UI.
$0.02
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
The game was designed from the ground up for a PC. The menu system is a holdover from the other 15 or so Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy 11 had nearly the exact same interface.
You can try to justify your own inability to adapt to the interface on unitutiveness all you want, but it's not the true reason for your problems.
And as I said, people complain that all MMOs are the same, but when one does something new, they complain that it isn't the same.
See what I did there?
It uses nearly the same interface as FFXI because FFXI was designed for the PS2.
FFXIV is a game designed for consoles and built as such. With all the options available in a traditional MMO layout it would have been a nightmare for the console user to preform even half of them on a game pad. That is the reason they stuck with a menu driven system.
As for inability to adapt, thats not it. Anyone can adapt to a system like that. The problem is, why would anyone want to? People have a low tolerance to frustration, and that UI after a few hours becomes more tedious and frustrating than accessible and fun. The point of a UI is to allow you to control game functions while not intruding on overall gameplay. The FFXIV UI intrudes on gameplay as even a simple step can require navigating several menu layers to accomplish. That right there is why everyone complains.
Different is different. Needlessly complicated isn't different, it's just needlessly complicated.
100% agree with fyerwall.
I'll add that FFXI's UI never felt nearly as cumbersome as XIV's. It was much more intuitive all the way around, and simple tasks were still simple. There's plenty of ex-FFXI players who feel that way as well. I mean, they've managed to even leave out some simple functionality such as arranging your inventory or fast-scrolling to the bottom of a long list by holding right. Lots of little things like that just somehow went backwards or got completely left out.
Of course, the only thing I've seen that you've done here is to divert the river of issues and problems covered in this review into a narrow channel of "the UI is fine!" vs. "the UI sucks!". Nice tact and all, but you failed to include 'in my opinion' alongside all your points, and the fact remains that the complaints go far beyond justthe UI.
$0.02
This is what I was talking about if you read a few posts up of people alluding vaguely to things that make the game the beast with six thrice upon it's being. The reason I chose the UI is because it's the only solid thing that people seem to be complain about that isn't ambigious and nebulous.
Sorry but everything GT stated in their review is just the truth. The whole philosophy behind the game and it's mechanics are completely backwards, not to mention the endless amount of arbitrary barriers all over the place just clearly designed to slow players down so they fork over more cash. Sure it looks fantastic, but looks don't make a game. I think even huge fans of the series would much rather be playing FF11 than FF14 if they both looked identical visually.
So i've just read 3 pages of posts regarding how the menu driven UI is laggy and sucks. EVE uses a menu driven UI and this complaint is often made as well. (not laggy though)
DF freuquently gets slammed for its non-standard UI and yet both games have people who are able to play them despite their differences with what most people are used to.
Is FFXIV's interface really that bad, or just really quite different because lately I'm seeing a trend that if a game mirrors the standard its called a WOW clone, and when it veers from the norm people say it is deficient.
I haven't played FFXIV so can't tell for sure. I also realize the trade mechanics are atrocious right now, but that's a topic covered in several other threads.
I still can't help but think FFXIV will do fine in it's target niche, and certainly much better on consoles where the common use of controllers can only help it.
Whether a modern game that isn't driven by endless quest based progression can truely satisfy today's average player remains to be seen. (I suspect the answer is no)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Oh? so all of a sudden user reviews matter now? they didn't on gamespot web site. hahahahah why? because its 4.8.
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
Well, horrid grammar aside, most of the complaints I have seen that aren't vague allusions to an unfinished product or it's just generally the bane of all existence has been that the UI is unintuitive. This is coming from people that are used to a WoW-like interface...however people that are used to FF11 interface find it to be SOP. It's not better or worse, it's just different.
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
Once again.. people complaing because UI is tedious and laggy not because its NOT like WOW. i never played WOW in my life and FFXIV UI is just terrible. What excuse you have for people like me?
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
I'd simply say it's something that you are not accustomed to. If you'd give it time it'd become second nature. For example, I use the keypad to move and navigate the menus and it's extremely easy for me. However for someone who is used to using WASD and mouse to move about and navigate menus...I imagine it'd be quite tedious.
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
That is your assumptions so don't try to pass it out like facts. Only because someone don't want to open 9 windows for a simple task doesn't mean they want things that are in WOW. Considering every MMO out there has a working and user friendly inventory system. Whats wrong with having an inventory which can be opened with one click? will that make your game less challenging? ahahaha
It takes two clicks for me to open my inventory...is that really so much of a burden? Have people gotten so ineherently lazy that any sort of minor deterrent is a major inconvience?
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
But it's still a leap none the less.
What they are talking about mainly is the fact that things should become more streamlined as they evolve. A lot of what is found in FFXIV is more of a regression. Different is different and that is ok. But when different is needlessly complex (multiple menu layers, horrible UI, etc) that's not ok.
And that is what a lot of people mean.
FFXIV could still be as different as they want without all the hassle of being unintuitive. The problem is that they designed the game based around one platform and one platform only - the PS3 - with almost no consideration for the PC players to whom the game was marketed towards and released to first. Everything about the usability of the UI screams bad console to PC port.
And that is NOT acceptable.
Because if it were any other game that did that, people like you and the many others who defend this choice would be the ones complaining as well.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Really clicking more windows makes you active now? considering you are still sitting on a comfy chair playing video games whole day, isn't that a laziest activity in itself? bad UI is bad no matter how much you defend it.
I've played a handful of F2P MMOs that have a better UI then XIV.
No one can defend SEs approach to XIVs UI. Next gen MMO? Hah! They can't even get the basics right.
Actuallly this sentiment is only partially correct. Every Final Fantasy game has always had similar menu systems. The game was designed from the ground up for a PC, but the menu is a legacy from it's console heratage with S-E.
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
No.
The game was designed with the console user in mind. The menu system wasn't a 'legacy' move.
The reason they used the menu system was due to the fact it would be cumbersome to the console players to use a PC interface (not many console users will have a keyboard, leaving them the controller to use).
You can try to justify it as a 'legacy' move all you want, but it's not the true reason for the choice.
And as I said, be it another game that did it and a lot of you would be complaining about it as well.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Yes.
The game was designed from the ground up for a PC. The menu system is a holdover from the other 15 or so Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy 11 had nearly the exact same interface.
You can try to justify your own inability to adapt to the interface on unitutiveness all you want, but it's not the true reason for your problems.
And as I said, people complain that all MMOs are the same, but when one does something new, they complain that it isn't the same.
See what I did there?
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
They didn't do anything different, unless a laggy and tedious UI is something you consider challenging and different. (which you clearly believe so)
Bwahahaha!
Adapting to an inferior system is something you may swallow and bend over to take in your behind, but I'm not willing to stoop that low. Menu system is fine for a single player RPG, it was acceptable with XI, but in todays time, it's an archaic, lazy way out.
Oh I wholeheartedly agree being different from the pack is a good move. But SEs execution was just horrible. Instead of refining that wheel, they made it into square (pun intended) ones. It works, but it's going to require more effort then it should.
Challenging? I don't know why you keep hammering at that. I never stated anything about challenge. The MMO itself isn't really anymore challenging than any other MMO out there in terms of difficulty. It just doesn't hold your hand every step of the way like most do. It teaches you some basic things like combat and synthesis, then tosses you in the mix, and it's more or less up to you to sink or swim. I guess people can see that as a challenge, but it's not really.
Anyway, yeah the UI is different...it's not the same as a typical western MMO. Is it worse? I don't think so, it took me a little bit to adapt to but nothing so cumbersome as for me to quit and complain endlessly on some forum about it.
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
It uses nearly the same interface as FFXI because FFXI was designed for the PS2.
FFXIV is a game designed for consoles and built as such. With all the options available in a traditional MMO layout it would have been a nightmare for the console user to preform even half of them on a game pad. That is the reason they stuck with a menu driven system.
As for inability to adapt, thats not it. Anyone can adapt to a system like that. The problem is, why would anyone want to? People have a low tolerance to frustration, and that UI after a few hours becomes more tedious and frustrating than accessible and fun. The point of a UI is to allow you to control game functions while not intruding on overall gameplay. The FFXIV UI intrudes on gameplay as even a simple step can require navigating several menu layers to accomplish. That right there is why everyone complains.
Different is different. Needlessly complicated isn't different, it's just needlessly complicated.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Has it occured to you that people prefer a single key stroke to open their inventory because it's... oh I don't know... intuitive?
By the by, MMORPGs - including very complex and involved ones - were using single keystroke short-cuts long before WoW released. So it's not even a "WoW-like" issue. Interfaces are supposed to be "invisible" to the player, and serve only to enable the player to play the game. A well-designed and implemented interface shouldn't call attention to itself; FFXIV's interface calls attention to itself on a regular basis.
The quest system in XIV *is* rather lacking, by any standards. SE has put up arbitrary limitations on how many you can do, how often you can do them, and when you can do them. That is *not* innovative, nor is it player-friendly to anyone but those who are okay with playing the game exactly the way SE "wants them to". Though not as restrictive as initially thought, the same could be said for the fatigue system; it's an arbitrary restriction on how people play the game.
In a number of ways, FFXIV's design forces you into having to find other things to keep you occupied until the game's ready to let you do more of what you're actually more interested in. I experienced that a number of times while playing.
SE made some definite gaffes with the design of FFXIV. "Being patient" or "wanting to figure things out on your own" have nothing to do with it. Fundamental, basic gameplay elements should not have to be "figured out". One should not have to "be patient" to figure out the basic controls or interface in a game. That one even needs to make such an argument - "be patient" - underscores that the interface was not well thought out. There are poor, unintuitive and, in a number cases, downright ridiculous design decisions represented in that game.
That said.. I was willing to get past that learning curve and, in fact, did; because I believed it was all part of what would be an ultimately amazing experience. I believed what I was experiencing in Beta was deliberately limited because all SE provided was enough content for us to test. What I didn't realize was that what we saw in Beta *was* pretty much the extent of what the game would offer... and retail would only add on more of the same.
FFXIV is *not* deep, it's *not* complex, nor is it challenging. It's a very basic experience, wrapped in odd design choices, arbitrary limitations and a convoluted and unintuitive user interface/experience.
Some obligatory points for those who may think otherwise:
Yes, I paid $75 to pre-order and bought the game. Yes I played it. I was, in fact, testing the game since Alpha. So, please don't even start lecturing me on "how the game is really set up".
No, I am not a WoW player and, no I do not expect everything to be easy or handed to me on a platter. I played FFXI since NA launch on PC and it remains my favorite all-time MMO. I played it with keyboard only and had no problem with the interface. Prior to that I played Anarchy Online, Shadowbane and Asheron's Call... all MMOs that, decidedly are not "easy mode" MMOs, nor do/did they hand you the game on a silver platter either. So please, no one bother making the canned "you're just a WoW player who wants everything easy mode", 'cause that won't stick either.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
100% agree with fyerwall.
I'll add that FFXI's UI never felt nearly as cumbersome as XIV's. It was much more intuitive all the way around, and simple tasks were still simple. There's plenty of ex-FFXI players who feel that way as well. I mean, they've managed to even leave out some simple functionality such as arranging your inventory or fast-scrolling to the bottom of a long list by holding right. Lots of little things like that just somehow went backwards or got completely left out.
Of course, the only thing I've seen that you've done here is to divert the river of issues and problems covered in this review into a narrow channel of "the UI is fine!" vs. "the UI sucks!". Nice tact and all, but you failed to include 'in my opinion' alongside all your points, and the fact remains that the complaints go far beyond just the UI.
$0.02
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
This is what I was talking about if you read a few posts up of people alluding vaguely to things that make the game the beast with six thrice upon it's being. The reason I chose the UI is because it's the only solid thing that people seem to be complain about that isn't ambigious and nebulous.
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
Sorry but everything GT stated in their review is just the truth. The whole philosophy behind the game and it's mechanics are completely backwards, not to mention the endless amount of arbitrary barriers all over the place just clearly designed to slow players down so they fork over more cash. Sure it looks fantastic, but looks don't make a game. I think even huge fans of the series would much rather be playing FF11 than FF14 if they both looked identical visually.
the score is what i would have given the beta. glad i didnt buy this game.
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So i've just read 3 pages of posts regarding how the menu driven UI is laggy and sucks. EVE uses a menu driven UI and this complaint is often made as well. (not laggy though)
DF freuquently gets slammed for its non-standard UI and yet both games have people who are able to play them despite their differences with what most people are used to.
Is FFXIV's interface really that bad, or just really quite different because lately I'm seeing a trend that if a game mirrors the standard its called a WOW clone, and when it veers from the norm people say it is deficient.
I haven't played FFXIV so can't tell for sure. I also realize the trade mechanics are atrocious right now, but that's a topic covered in several other threads.
I still can't help but think FFXIV will do fine in it's target niche, and certainly much better on consoles where the common use of controllers can only help it.
Whether a modern game that isn't driven by endless quest based progression can truely satisfy today's average player remains to be seen. (I suspect the answer is no)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon