So i've just read 3 pages of posts regarding how the menu driven UI is laggy and sucks. EVE uses a menu driven UI and this complaint is often made as well. (not laggy though)
DF freuquently gets slammed for its non-standard UI and yet both games have people who are able to play them despite their differences with what most people are used to.
Is FFXIV's interface really that bad, or just really quite different because lately I'm seeing a trend that if a game mirrors the standard its called a WOW clone, and when it veers from the norm people say it is deficient.
I haven't played FFXIV so can't tell for sure. I also realize the trade mechanics are atrocious right now, but that's a topic covered in several other threads.
I still can't help but think FFXIV will do fine in it's target niche, and certainly much better on consoles where the common use of controllers can only help it.
Whether a modern game that isn't driven by endless quest based progression can truely satisfy today's average player remains to be seen. (I suspect the answer is no)
FFXIV's interface really IS that bad, yes. Laggy, needlessly complicated and missing a lot of options that I thought nowadays were standard. It is not bad because it is different or anything like that. To use a simple comparison, it's like if it would be a calculator it would force you to type 5+5+5+5+5+5+5+5 instead of 8*5.
However, the game has multiple other issues besides that and at least Gamespot's review reflects the experience very accurately.
The game was designed from the ground up for a PC. The menu system is a holdover from the other 15 or so Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy 11 had nearly the exact same interface.
You can try to justify your own inability to adapt to the interface on unitutiveness all you want, but it's not the true reason for your problems.
And as I said, people complain that all MMOs are the same, but when one does something new, they complain that it isn't the same.
See what I did there?
It uses nearly the same interface as FFXI because FFXI was designed for the PS2.
FFXIV is a game designed for consoles and built as such. With all the options available in a traditional MMO layout it would have been a nightmare for the console user to preform even half of them on a game pad. That is the reason they stuck with a menu driven system.
As for inability to adapt, thats not it. Anyone can adapt to a system like that. The problem is, why would anyone want to? People have a low tolerance to frustration, and that UI after a few hours becomes more tedious and frustrating than accessible and fun. The point of a UI is to allow you to control game functions while not intruding on overall gameplay. The FFXIV UI intrudes on gameplay as even a simple step can require navigating several menu layers to accomplish. That right there is why everyone complains.
Different is different. Needlessly complicated isn't different, it's just needlessly complicated.
100% agree with fyerwall.
I'll add that FFXI's UI never felt nearly as cumbersome as XIV's. It was much more intuitive all the way around, and simple tasks were still simple. There's plenty of ex-FFXI players who feel that way as well. I mean, they've managed to even leave out some simple functionality such as arranging your inventory or fast-scrolling to the bottom of a long list by holding right. Lots of little things like that just somehow went backwards or got completely left out.
Of course, the only thing I've seen that you've done here is to divert the river of issues and problems covered in this review into a narrow channel of "the UI is fine!" vs. "the UI sucks!". Nice tact and all, but you failed to include 'in my opinion' alongside all your points, and the fact remains that the complaints go far beyond justthe UI.
$0.02
This is what I was talking about if you read a few posts up of people alluding vaguely to things that make the game the beast with six thrice upon it's being. The reason I chose the UI is because it's the only solid thing that people seem to be complain about that isn't ambigious and nebulous.
Just thought I'd throw this up here again for the post above this one....
So i've just read 3 pages of posts regarding how the menu driven UI is laggy and sucks. EVE uses a menu driven UI and this complaint is often made as well. (not laggy though)
DF freuquently gets slammed for its non-standard UI and yet both games have people who are able to play them despite their differences with what most people are used to.
Is FFXIV's interface really that bad, or just really quite different because lately I'm seeing a trend that if a game mirrors the standard its called a WOW clone, and when it veers from the norm people say it is deficient.
I haven't played FFXIV so can't tell for sure. I also realize the trade mechanics are atrocious right now, but that's a topic covered in several other threads.
I still can't help but think FFXIV will do fine in it's target niche, and certainly much better on consoles where the common use of controllers can only help it.
Whether a modern game that isn't driven by endless quest based progression can truely satisfy today's average player remains to be seen. (I suspect the answer is no)
The issues people have, and point out, with FFXIV go beyond the interface.
Not that you're doing so here, Kyleran, but as someone pointed out earlier, though... It seems that people can give a laundry list of issues they have with the game, from interface, to gameplay, to questing and so forth.... and invariably, people defending the game will always ignore everything else and bring it back to "people just don't like that the game has a different interface and want everything to be easy".
It's as though they think intellectual dishonesty is a good defense against any argument.
It's like complaining about an entire dining experience at a restaurant, from the starter salad to the dessert, to the service, to the cleanliness of the establishment... and fans of the restaurant defend it by saying, "Well, maybe you're just not a salad eater and don't like healthy foods."
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The issues people have, and point out, with FFXIV go beyond the interface.
Not that you're doing so here, Kyleran, but as someone pointed out earlier, though... It seems that people can give a laundry list of issues they have with the game, from interface, to gameplay, to questing and so forth.... and invariably, people defending the game will always ignore everything else and bring it back to "people just don't like that the game has a different interface and want everything to be easy".
It's as though they think intellectual dishonesty is a good defense against any argument.
It's like complaining about an entire dining experience at a restaurant, from the starter salad to the dessert, to the service, to the cleanliness of the establishment... and fans of the restaurant defend it by saying, "Well, maybe you're just not a salad eater and don't like healthy foods."
qft
I also see a lot of strawman arguments from many of the people who defend FFXIV. I've seen some very well reasoned posts and responses by those who don't like the game, who are invariably ignored while the masses go after someone who points out that the UI sucks.
One more time for the slow-witted. It isn't just because the UI is different. The UI is simply inferior...it is quite literally a decade+ step backwards in time. I didn't cancel my preorder after many hours of alpha and beta testing just because of the UI. Most games have an issue or several...but the games I choose to play are those that I find enjoyable regardless of those issues. FFXIV (for me) just isn't enjoyable. By all means disagree with my assessment, but stop arguing nonsense that my only objection is the UI and that the UI is actually okay, I just don't understand it. The game just isn't fun for me and many others. If you enjoy the game, in all seriousness, more power to you. I sincerely hope you enjoy the game. But stop acting surprised when most of don't.
The issues people have, and point out, with FFXIV go beyond the interface.
Not that you're doing so here, Kyleran, but as someone pointed out earlier, though... It seems that people can give a laundry list of issues they have with the game, from interface, to gameplay, to questing and so forth.... and invariably, people defending the game will always ignore everything else and bring it back to "people just don't like that the game has a different interface and want everything to be easy".
It's as though they think intellectual dishonesty is a good defense against any argument.
It's like complaining about an entire dining experience at a restaurant, from the starter salad to the dessert, to the service, to the cleanliness of the establishment... and fans of the restaurant defend it by saying, "Well, maybe you're just not a salad eater and don't like healthy foods."
qft
I also see a lot of strawman arguments from many of the people who defend FFXIV. I've seen some very well reasoned posts and responses by those who don't like the game, who are invariably ignored while the masses go after someone who points out that the UI sucks.
One more time for the slow-witted. It isn't just because the UI is different. The UI is simply inferior...it is quite literally a decade+ step backwards in time. I didn't cancel my preorder after many hours of alpha and beta testing just because of the UI. Most games have an issue or several...but the games I choose to play are those that I find enjoyable regardless of those issues. FFXIV (for me) just isn't enjoyable. By all means disagree with my assessment, but stop arguing nonsense that my only objection is the UI and that the UI is actually okay, I just don't understand it. The game just isn't fun for me and many others. If you enjoy the game, in all seriousness, more power to you. I sincerely hope you enjoy the game. But stop acting surprised when most of don't.
Sigh...this is getting repetative....
This is what I was talking about if you read a few posts up of people alluding vaguely to things that make the game the beast with six thrice upon it's being. The reason I chose the UI is because it's the only solid thing that people seem to be complain about that isn't ambigious and nebulous.
The issues people have, and point out, with FFXIV go beyond the interface.
Not that you're doing so here, Kyleran, but as someone pointed out earlier, though... It seems that people can give a laundry list of issues they have with the game, from interface, to gameplay, to questing and so forth.... and invariably, people defending the game will always ignore everything else and bring it back to "people just don't like that the game has a different interface and want everything to be easy".
It's as though they think intellectual dishonesty is a good defense against any argument.
It's like complaining about an entire dining experience at a restaurant, from the starter salad to the dessert, to the service, to the cleanliness of the establishment... and fans of the restaurant defend it by saying, "Well, maybe you're just not a salad eater and don't like healthy foods."
qft
I also see a lot of strawman arguments from many of the people who defend FFXIV. I've seen some very well reasoned posts and responses by those who don't like the game, who are invariably ignored while the masses go after someone who points out that the UI sucks.
One more time for the slow-witted. It isn't just because the UI is different. The UI is simply inferior...it is quite literally a decade+ step backwards in time. I didn't cancel my preorder after many hours of alpha and beta testing just because of the UI. Most games have an issue or several...but the games I choose to play are those that I find enjoyable regardless of those issues. FFXIV (for me) just isn't enjoyable. By all means disagree with my assessment, but stop arguing nonsense that my only objection is the UI and that the UI is actually okay, I just don't understand it. The game just isn't fun for me and many others. If you enjoy the game, in all seriousness, more power to you. I sincerely hope you enjoy the game. But stop acting surprised when most of don't.
Sigh...this is getting repetative....
This is what I was talking about if you read a few posts up of people alluding vaguely to things that make the game the beast with six thrice upon it's being. The reason I chose the UI is because it's the only solid thing that people seem to be complain about that isn't ambigious and nebulous.
Look man, we get it. You think you've found an issue to really nail down and hammer people on, but the point is that it's one of many. It's repetative because it's all that you're choosing to see and focus on, pariticularly in this thread. You're calling everything else "ambiguous and nebulous" all the while failing to realize that they've been thoroughly covered elsewhere. Is there really a need to re-hash those discussions over and over again when they already exist? It's not hard to see countless complaints about the lack of content, right down to basic questing, and leves are no counter to that. If anything - not that you're claiming otherwise - they're more like WoW's dailies, if not even simpler, yet people try to bring WoW in as if its relevant.
The whole thing is that in spite of this thread - where you've made it your mission to choose the UI as the basis for your entire argument - there are plenty of others that cover the game's faults far more thoroughly. Go dive in and read.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Yes it still has some faults like all mmos that are released, but it seems a game cannot stray to far from norm without being ripped apart.
If it isent made exactly in the same way as WOW it must be bad!
And no one here is comparing FFXIV to WoW. Nice way to derail the thread.
I ended canceling my subscription, people like to point out the UI but to me it was more than that.
* The inability to write a complete sentence because you are given a limited amount of characters (one might able to write an entire book in Kanji on the amount of space they give, but one can barely write a sentence in English)
* The inability to create new chat channels, tabs, change colours, lack of filtering (you can filter almost everything but not all)
* Unable to search for a specific item in the Market Ward. I understand they are changing the wards by giving different names and suggesting what should be sold there (the main word is suggesting, a person with a retainer doesn't have to follow SE suggestions at what should be sold on the Woodcutters Ward)
* For a game the emphasizes on Player Crafting the social tools are severely lacking. If I want to have something made, I either was countless hours searching the market wards, player bazaars or shouting to see if anyone can make me a simple item like Iron Nails. If there were a Trading Channel this wouldn't be a problem.
* The lag even on remote areas is still annoying, specially if you are a caster class. Switching from Active to Passive mode (or vice versa) is unresponsive at times. Like I'm running and I pressed to go back to Passive mode but it only took effect almost 30 seconds later. People that say the Lag will get better when folks spread around the areas and in levels are fooling themselves. Lag is present everywhere.
* The inability to do more quests after your initial 8 is to say the least annoying. If they want people to level horizontally that much, they could have made 8 levequests per Class and not overall. Instead folks resort to Grinding on mobs in obscure corners/caves and get overly aggressive when someone shows up.
These are just some of my issues with the game and of course what might not be might cup of tea doesn't mean others won't enjoy the game.
The issues people have, and point out, with FFXIV go beyond the interface.
Not that you're doing so here, Kyleran, but as someone pointed out earlier, though... It seems that people can give a laundry list of issues they have with the game, from interface, to gameplay, to questing and so forth.... and invariably, people defending the game will always ignore everything else and bring it back to "people just don't like that the game has a different interface and want everything to be easy".
It's as though they think intellectual dishonesty is a good defense against any argument.
It's like complaining about an entire dining experience at a restaurant, from the starter salad to the dessert, to the service, to the cleanliness of the establishment... and fans of the restaurant defend it by saying, "Well, maybe you're just not a salad eater and don't like healthy foods."
qft
I also see a lot of strawman arguments from many of the people who defend FFXIV. I've seen some very well reasoned posts and responses by those who don't like the game, who are invariably ignored while the masses go after someone who points out that the UI sucks.
One more time for the slow-witted. It isn't just because the UI is different. The UI is simply inferior...it is quite literally a decade+ step backwards in time. I didn't cancel my preorder after many hours of alpha and beta testing just because of the UI. Most games have an issue or several...but the games I choose to play are those that I find enjoyable regardless of those issues. FFXIV (for me) just isn't enjoyable. By all means disagree with my assessment, but stop arguing nonsense that my only objection is the UI and that the UI is actually okay, I just don't understand it. The game just isn't fun for me and many others. If you enjoy the game, in all seriousness, more power to you. I sincerely hope you enjoy the game. But stop acting surprised when most of don't.
Sigh...this is getting repetative....
This is what I was talking about if you read a few posts up of people alluding vaguely to things that make the game the beast with six thrice upon it's being. The reason I chose the UI is because it's the only solid thing that people seem to be complain about that isn't ambigious and nebulous.
Look man, we get it. You think you've found an issue to really nail down and hammer people on, but the point is that it's one of many. It's repetative because it's all that you're choosing to see and focus on, pariticularly in this thread. You're calling everything else "ambiguous and nebulous" all the while failing to realize that they've been thoroughly covered elsewhere. Is there really a need to re-hash those discussions over and over again when they already exist? It's not hard to see countless complaints about the lack of content, right down to basic questing, and leves are no counter to that. If anything - not that you're claiming otherwise - they're more like WoW's dailies, if not even simpler, yet people try to bring WoW in as if its relevant.
The whole thing is that in spite of this thread - where you've made it your mission to choose the UI as the basis for your entire argument - there are plenty of others that cover the game's faults far more thoroughly. Go dive in and read.
Ok you've given me something material to bite into other than the UI. Leves and how they are pretty much like WoW's Dailies. I actually agree with this and commented on this in my linkshell chat earlier, I rather quite like it.
It gives me about 2 to 4 hours worth of stuff to do for a day then when I'm done with it I have a few choices. I can log out for the day and do it again tomorrow, craft a bit, grind a bit, or team up with some friends and do silly stuff together. I almost always try to go for the latter, it leads to some fun stuff.
"A grind not acceptable in an MMO thjis day and age" ... who the hell?
Im sorry ,WoW has damaged this genre, if theres not a Quest grind to the max level then its too hard, or not "content fuffilled" .... the barebones crap it talked about is exactly what i thought about WoW, coz quest grinding is just grinding, its not interesting, there was no main story, the tradeskills were as basic for kids as possible... and the combat was equally as far from CGI....
What is this I dont even.....
Mainstream REview sites "If its not overly accessible and easy for me to review within an hour its not worth shit to anyone."
"A grind not acceptable in an MMO thjis day and age" ... who the hell?
Im sorry ,WoW has damaged this genre, if theres not a Quest grind to the max level then its too hard, or not "content fuffilled" .... the barebones crap it talked about is exactly what i thought about WoW, coz quest grinding is just grinding, its not interesting, there was no main story, the tradeskills were as basic for kids as possible... and the combat was equally as far from CGI....
What is this I dont even.....
Mainstream REview sites "If its not overly accessible and easy for me to review within an hour its not worth shit to anyone."
This is a case of hearing what you want to hear.
What the review sites are talking about is the fact that half thought out ideas, like having a player economy with little to no social tools available to support the system (such as trade channels) but only a horribly designed market system that is make needlessly complicated does nothing but frustrate people.
Underneath all the frustrations you have an incredibly simple game, which to a lot of people (and reviewers) don't make up for the fact that it's frustrating.
Take guild leve's for example. Instead of having NPC's with a ! over their head, you have a giant crystal. The difference is you are limited to the 8 leve's per 36 hour period, forcing players to switch up what they are doing (making them choose to either grind out XP or Craft), Basically guiding players on what to do next. For some people it's ok but for others who don't really want to bother with crafting you are left with gathering or grinding. People wouldn't have too much of an issue with grinding if there were things to grind on, but again, mobs are pretty limited in a lot of areas.
The thing is I see a lot of people talking about 'this game doesn't hold your hand' and they are correct. What they fail to mention is it does guide you through limitations and tries to control your play. Basically where other games give a player choices on what they can do, this one tells you your choices.
The reviews also point out that the game released in a terrible state, which might have been fine oh 7 years ago, but isn't acceptable now. Look at reviews of other MMOs that have come out in the same condition in the last few years, they pretty much all got the same complaint. Will the game get better over time? Sure. Is it worth spending money on currently? Not really, and thats what these reviews are pointing out.
Now if you look at the positive reviews the game has recieved, they gloss over the gameplay itself and constantly focus only on the graphics and general 'prettiness' of the game. If anything, those are the dishonest reviews.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
The issues people have, and point out, with FFXIV go beyond the interface.
Not that you're doing so here, Kyleran, but as someone pointed out earlier, though... It seems that people can give a laundry list of issues they have with the game, from interface, to gameplay, to questing and so forth.... and invariably, people defending the game will always ignore everything else and bring it back to "people just don't like that the game has a different interface and want everything to be easy".
It's as though they think intellectual dishonesty is a good defense against any argument.
It's like complaining about an entire dining experience at a restaurant, from the starter salad to the dessert, to the service, to the cleanliness of the establishment... and fans of the restaurant defend it by saying, "Well, maybe you're just not a salad eater and don't like healthy foods."
qft
I also see a lot of strawman arguments from many of the people who defend FFXIV. I've seen some very well reasoned posts and responses by those who don't like the game, who are invariably ignored while the masses go after someone who points out that the UI sucks.
One more time for the slow-witted. It isn't just because the UI is different. The UI is simply inferior...it is quite literally a decade+ step backwards in time. I didn't cancel my preorder after many hours of alpha and beta testing just because of the UI. Most games have an issue or several...but the games I choose to play are those that I find enjoyable regardless of those issues. FFXIV (for me) just isn't enjoyable. By all means disagree with my assessment, but stop arguing nonsense that my only objection is the UI and that the UI is actually okay, I just don't understand it. The game just isn't fun for me and many others. If you enjoy the game, in all seriousness, more power to you. I sincerely hope you enjoy the game. But stop acting surprised when most of don't.
Sigh...this is getting repetative....
This is what I was talking about if you read a few posts up of people alluding vaguely to things that make the game the beast with six thrice upon it's being. The reason I chose the UI is because it's the only solid thing that people seem to be complain about that isn't ambigious and nebulous.
Speaking for myself... I was referring to people overall who want to reduce the argument to being "about the UI", despite myriad other examples and reasons given. You aren't the only one to have brought that up. Many people, on many threads, across several websites have done it and continue to do it as well.
Don't take it personally .
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Yes it still has some faults like all mmos that are released, but it seems a game cannot stray to far from norm without being ripped apart.
If it isent made exactly in the same way as WOW it must be bad!
Lazy strawman response.
No one is comparing it to WoW, except the people who, like yourself, insist on invoking it to dismiss valid complaints being cited by a substantial number of people.
Responding to every complaint or criticism about a game (FFXIV or otherwise) with some retort about how "people are upset because it's not like WoW", when no one has made any such comparison... is lazy, weak and irrelevant.
If I were to take a similar tact as you, I could represent the other side of argument as such: "If people don't like it, it's because they want it to be like WoW!". Of course, that would be equally lazy on my part, which is why I wouldn't say such a thing.
Try harder.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Originally posted by Birdy88 "A grind not acceptable in an MMO thjis day and age" ... who the hell? Im sorry ,WoW has damaged this genre, if theres not a Quest grind to the max level then its too hard, or not "content fuffilled" .... the barebones crap it talked about is exactly what i thought about WoW, coz quest grinding is just grinding, its not interesting, there was no main story, the tradeskills were as basic for kids as possible... and the combat was equally as far from CGI.... What is this I dont even..... Mainstream REview sites "If its not overly accessible and easy for me to review within an hour its not worth shit to anyone."
I played the game from the earliest closed beta until the end of open beta and I've listened to whats come out since release and I have to say this review is spot on.
Sad thing is I wanted this game to succeed, when they tell a story it's a good one, the design is amazing but without some serious attention this game is going to fail except for a very small niche crowd (no idea what that niche is exactly but it obviously exists}
SE deserve to hear the reception is bad otherwise they'll sit on their ass and do nothing for this or future releases.
It's a shame to see the real potential of this game go to waste, will SE step up to the mark ?
"A grind not acceptable in an MMO thjis day and age" ... who the hell?
Im sorry ,WoW has damaged this genre, if theres not a Quest grind to the max level then its too hard, or not "content fuffilled" .... the barebones crap it talked about is exactly what i thought about WoW, coz quest grinding is just grinding, its not interesting, there was no main story, the tradeskills were as basic for kids as possible... and the combat was equally as far from CGI....
What is this I dont even.....
Mainstream REview sites "If its not overly accessible and easy for me to review within an hour its not worth shit to anyone."
I played the game from the earliest closed beta until the end of open beta and I've listened to whats come out since release and I have to say this review is spot on.
Sad thing is I wanted this game to succeed, when they tell a story it's a good one, the design is amazing but without some serious attention this game is going to fail except for a very small niche crowd (no idea what that niche is exactly but it obviously exists}
SE deserve to hear the reception is bad otherwise they'll sit on their ass and do nothing for this or future releases.
It's a shame to see the real potential of this game go to waste, will SE step up to the mark ?
I agree, the major downfall of this game at the moment is Userbilityu Engineering, it is in a shocking state, the lag/ui lag and the UI in generally makes all the good features seem distant and hard to enjoy just getting over that hurdle is a major nuisance and will make or break this game depending on what action they take.
And to reply to an earlier post "Nobody is comparing it to WoW" OH WAKE THE HELL UP. simple complaints like "Only 8 quests to do a day" (actually its 16) and multiplied by a very high ammount depending on your party size (he didnt even know you could do this probably, or didnt even mention it as a counter, same as gamespot review) failing that you have BEHEST every hour which is documented.... so where he sees "8 quests" I see 5 hours worht of 50+ on a regular bases.
"Story is far and few between" .... at least its actually presented in a more believable manner, and this wasnt a complaint for FF11 (though that was 2 years old by review time).
The combat mocking was just laughable.... I could of made a godamn review video witha low level solo gnome trying to kill a high level mob with auto attacks and dying... what kinda fkin input was that other than a half arsed mock? no battle regimens? no real party play?
The review picked up on the bad, but didnt even WANT to go further (and thats the games problem right there agreed, all down to userbility.)
"A grind not acceptable in an MMO thjis day and age" ... who the hell?
Im sorry ,WoW has damaged this genre, if theres not a Quest grind to the max level then its too hard, or not "content fuffilled" .... the barebones crap it talked about is exactly what i thought about WoW, coz quest grinding is just grinding, its not interesting, there was no main story, the tradeskills were as basic for kids as possible... and the combat was equally as far from CGI....
What is this I dont even.....
Mainstream REview sites "If its not overly accessible and easy for me to review within an hour its not worth shit to anyone."
You need a hand to get off your high horse?
I think alot of SE's problem is they feel invincable because they are one of the few companies left that make JRPG's for the west.. now if your a long term fan of the FF series, you know the problems present in 13, those mainstream sites didn't tear into it too badly, then they come out with this.
Its not that the game isn't perfect, no mmo is "perfect" its that they decided to ignore so many concepts that are tried and true. They don't have to have some thing called an auction house, but they needed something that allows for a central area for people to look up what they need, find it quickly, but it and get back to playing ithe game. Mail system, what if I want to tell a friend in game i won't be online tomorrow at 6 like we talked about before he went offline? and like it or not there are certain standards in UI that have come to be accepted, now I'm not saying you have to have Wow's layout, but when you have a controller with over 50 buttons, why should you have to click more than one button to open your inventory or look at your skills? so that the game can be easily transferred to console? Why not add that functionality in for if you use a console, and have a single keybind system for those who use a keyboard, a "hotkey" system if you will.
Now I'm all for people enjoying this game, regardless of its flaws, there are some games that I really like that I can totally admit are not the best games in the world....
but I admit that. If you want to like FF14 thats fine, but don't talk as if it is some huge leap in the evolution of MMO's,. don't even say that it is keeping up with todays standards....its not. it has too many systems in place to restrict its players. resctrictions make something less accessable, and that is what MMO's are becomeing is more accessable. (fatigue, quest limits, those are inappopriate restrictions, that are a step back not forward.)
So yes your right, when a review site see's a game that is not accessable in many aspects, they are not going to give it a good review, cause it doesn't deserve one. you have to remember they are reviewing this site for the masses, not just a minority. so be happy your not one of the ones who fits in, its a good thing.
"A grind not acceptable in an MMO thjis day and age" ... who the hell?
Im sorry ,WoW has damaged this genre, if theres not a Quest grind to the max level then its too hard, or not "content fuffilled" .... the barebones crap it talked about is exactly what i thought about WoW, coz quest grinding is just grinding, its not interesting, there was no main story, the tradeskills were as basic for kids as possible... and the combat was equally as far from CGI....
What is this I dont even.....
Mainstream REview sites "If its not overly accessible and easy for me to review within an hour its not worth shit to anyone."
I played the game from the earliest closed beta until the end of open beta and I've listened to whats come out since release and I have to say this review is spot on.
Sad thing is I wanted this game to succeed, when they tell a story it's a good one, the design is amazing but without some serious attention this game is going to fail except for a very small niche crowd (no idea what that niche is exactly but it obviously exists}
SE deserve to hear the reception is bad otherwise they'll sit on their ass and do nothing for this or future releases.
It's a shame to see the real potential of this game go to waste, will SE step up to the mark ?
Quite the contrary my friend. First, the review is spot on and I'm not a hater. I've stated more then once on the forums I stubbornly tried to like the game at the point of torturing myself, but the game is without any fun or merit to be had. I'm an old school gamer that grew up on MUDs so a challenge isn't ever a problem to me, but the inability of said challenge to be fun is downright crippling. FF14 falls on its face and the reviews will continue to come out and rip this game apart, as it deserves. Will SE step up to the mark? As I said to start my rant, quite the contrary my friend. I believe this is clearly the beginning of the end of FF as a franchise and SE as a 'major' powerhouse within the industry. The last few FF have been incredibly lackluster, and outside of dragonsquest in the Eastern market, SE has been completely out of touch with this new generation of games for sometime now. The last few FF have shown that the original brains behind the FF series have long since either moved on, or fallen out of touch with reality of gaming. Either way, this is the garbage we're stuck with.
I do enjoy the game so far, to my own suprise actually. But, the UI, wow it is bad, the worst I have ever seen for any MMO. There is a reason most MMO:s share most elements of their UI, but this, ugh, it is very very cumbersome.
An extremely unfair review focused entirely on the negative. I know the game isn't perfect but that was a pretty one-sided perspective.
You're not quite right here. It is the game that is one sided - one-sidedly terrible. If not for that, maybe reviews would be able to look at something positive. Unfortunatley you cannot find what doesn't exist.
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
Odd. I took it to mean they were talking about just about every other MMO in existence. I can't recall the last time I wasn't able to open my inventory with anything more than a single keypress.
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
Odd. I took it to mean they were talking about just about every other MMO in existence. I can't recall the last time I wasn't able to open my inventory with anything more than a single keypress.
Welcome to 1994? How such a simple feature could be overlooked is mind boggling.
It baffles me that people complain that everything is like WOW...then something comes out that is entirely unlike WoW and they complain that it isn't like WoW.
No one is complaining its not like WOW. Being different is not good as long as that different doesn't work. You people need to come up with new lines because this 'not like wow' is getting boring. Its about FFXIV own shortcoming stop bringing WOW into every discussion.
No where in Gamespot or Game trailer review any compairsons were made to WOW.
No direct comparisons have been made no. Though there has been quite a few mentions of, "Why can't I just press I to open my inventory?" and "The quest system is not something to be desired by current MMO standards". It's not a far leap to discern that they are talking about WoW.
Odd. I took it to mean they were talking about just about every other MMO in existence. I can't recall the last time I wasn't able to open my inventory with anything more than a single keypress.
Hmmm thats funny. I think FFXIV is very enjoyable and has a few things that need "touching up" (and SE is doing just that) so I think all these reviewers are kind of out on a limb and havent really played the game. I hope these people aren't actually being paid to write these reviews because they are obviously not doing the required research nor are they likely quallified to do so.
I cant help but think that if this was on the ps3 only, it would get more forgiving reviews. It has to be compared to every other computer MMO out there, and it just cant stand up to the basic experience and user firendliness. It just seems to have been designed with ONLY console play in mind, and if that was the case it should never have been released on PC.
Hmmm thats funny. I think FFXIV is very enjoyable and has a few things that need "touching up" (and SE is doing just that) so I think all these reviewers are kind of out on a limb and havent really played the game.
I have played the game and tried to blindly like it to support SE, but you gotta call it like you see it and FF14 is just a polished turd. Yea it looks pretty, but it isn't ever any fun and is just so... bland. It comes off as a competetor for EQ1 with pretty graphics. Did SE not get the memo that EQ1 died over 10 yrs ago? SE hasn't made a good game in almost 10 years so I guess them not getting the memo doesn't shock me. I think it may have gotten more forgiving reviews on console only, then again, maybe not. The ps3 alone has an abundance of titles that would be infinitely more fun than this. I'd play Demons souls 1000x over before I set foot in FF14 again. If you enjoy the game, more power to you and I hope they fix things. If not, you are hardly alone and you didn't miss anything but a painfully boring gaming experience that doesn't push the genre forward in anyway but graphically, the genre actually went back 10 yrs with this game. Bioware and Arenanet, look long and hard at this game's epic failure and don't repeat the same poor mistakes that could have easily been avoided.
Comments
FFXIV's interface really IS that bad, yes. Laggy, needlessly complicated and missing a lot of options that I thought nowadays were standard. It is not bad because it is different or anything like that. To use a simple comparison, it's like if it would be a calculator it would force you to type 5+5+5+5+5+5+5+5 instead of 8*5.
However, the game has multiple other issues besides that and at least Gamespot's review reflects the experience very accurately.
My Signature
Just thought I'd throw this up here again for the post above this one....
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
The issues people have, and point out, with FFXIV go beyond the interface.
Not that you're doing so here, Kyleran, but as someone pointed out earlier, though... It seems that people can give a laundry list of issues they have with the game, from interface, to gameplay, to questing and so forth.... and invariably, people defending the game will always ignore everything else and bring it back to "people just don't like that the game has a different interface and want everything to be easy".
It's as though they think intellectual dishonesty is a good defense against any argument.
It's like complaining about an entire dining experience at a restaurant, from the starter salad to the dessert, to the service, to the cleanliness of the establishment... and fans of the restaurant defend it by saying, "Well, maybe you're just not a salad eater and don't like healthy foods."
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
qft
I also see a lot of strawman arguments from many of the people who defend FFXIV. I've seen some very well reasoned posts and responses by those who don't like the game, who are invariably ignored while the masses go after someone who points out that the UI sucks.
One more time for the slow-witted. It isn't just because the UI is different. The UI is simply inferior...it is quite literally a decade+ step backwards in time. I didn't cancel my preorder after many hours of alpha and beta testing just because of the UI. Most games have an issue or several...but the games I choose to play are those that I find enjoyable regardless of those issues. FFXIV (for me) just isn't enjoyable. By all means disagree with my assessment, but stop arguing nonsense that my only objection is the UI and that the UI is actually okay, I just don't understand it. The game just isn't fun for me and many others. If you enjoy the game, in all seriousness, more power to you. I sincerely hope you enjoy the game. But stop acting surprised when most of don't.
Yes it still has some faults like all mmos that are released, but it seems a game cannot stray to far from norm without being ripped apart.
If it isent made exactly in the same way as WOW it must be bad!
Sigh...this is getting repetative....
This is what I was talking about if you read a few posts up of people alluding vaguely to things that make the game the beast with six thrice upon it's being. The reason I chose the UI is because it's the only solid thing that people seem to be complain about that isn't ambigious and nebulous.
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
Look man, we get it. You think you've found an issue to really nail down and hammer people on, but the point is that it's one of many. It's repetative because it's all that you're choosing to see and focus on, pariticularly in this thread. You're calling everything else "ambiguous and nebulous" all the while failing to realize that they've been thoroughly covered elsewhere. Is there really a need to re-hash those discussions over and over again when they already exist? It's not hard to see countless complaints about the lack of content, right down to basic questing, and leves are no counter to that. If anything - not that you're claiming otherwise - they're more like WoW's dailies, if not even simpler, yet people try to bring WoW in as if its relevant.
The whole thing is that in spite of this thread - where you've made it your mission to choose the UI as the basis for your entire argument - there are plenty of others that cover the game's faults far more thoroughly. Go dive in and read.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
And no one here is comparing FFXIV to WoW. Nice way to derail the thread.
I ended canceling my subscription, people like to point out the UI but to me it was more than that.
* The inability to write a complete sentence because you are given a limited amount of characters (one might able to write an entire book in Kanji on the amount of space they give, but one can barely write a sentence in English)
* The inability to create new chat channels, tabs, change colours, lack of filtering (you can filter almost everything but not all)
* Unable to search for a specific item in the Market Ward. I understand they are changing the wards by giving different names and suggesting what should be sold there (the main word is suggesting, a person with a retainer doesn't have to follow SE suggestions at what should be sold on the Woodcutters Ward)
* For a game the emphasizes on Player Crafting the social tools are severely lacking. If I want to have something made, I either was countless hours searching the market wards, player bazaars or shouting to see if anyone can make me a simple item like Iron Nails. If there were a Trading Channel this wouldn't be a problem.
* The lag even on remote areas is still annoying, specially if you are a caster class. Switching from Active to Passive mode (or vice versa) is unresponsive at times. Like I'm running and I pressed to go back to Passive mode but it only took effect almost 30 seconds later. People that say the Lag will get better when folks spread around the areas and in levels are fooling themselves. Lag is present everywhere.
* The inability to do more quests after your initial 8 is to say the least annoying. If they want people to level horizontally that much, they could have made 8 levequests per Class and not overall. Instead folks resort to Grinding on mobs in obscure corners/caves and get overly aggressive when someone shows up.
These are just some of my issues with the game and of course what might not be might cup of tea doesn't mean others won't enjoy the game.
Ok you've given me something material to bite into other than the UI. Leves and how they are pretty much like WoW's Dailies. I actually agree with this and commented on this in my linkshell chat earlier, I rather quite like it.
It gives me about 2 to 4 hours worth of stuff to do for a day then when I'm done with it I have a few choices. I can log out for the day and do it again tomorrow, craft a bit, grind a bit, or team up with some friends and do silly stuff together. I almost always try to go for the latter, it leads to some fun stuff.
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
"A grind not acceptable in an MMO thjis day and age" ... who the hell?
Im sorry ,WoW has damaged this genre, if theres not a Quest grind to the max level then its too hard, or not "content fuffilled" .... the barebones crap it talked about is exactly what i thought about WoW, coz quest grinding is just grinding, its not interesting, there was no main story, the tradeskills were as basic for kids as possible... and the combat was equally as far from CGI....
What is this I dont even.....
Mainstream REview sites "If its not overly accessible and easy for me to review within an hour its not worth shit to anyone."
This is a case of hearing what you want to hear.
What the review sites are talking about is the fact that half thought out ideas, like having a player economy with little to no social tools available to support the system (such as trade channels) but only a horribly designed market system that is make needlessly complicated does nothing but frustrate people.
Underneath all the frustrations you have an incredibly simple game, which to a lot of people (and reviewers) don't make up for the fact that it's frustrating.
Take guild leve's for example. Instead of having NPC's with a ! over their head, you have a giant crystal. The difference is you are limited to the 8 leve's per 36 hour period, forcing players to switch up what they are doing (making them choose to either grind out XP or Craft), Basically guiding players on what to do next. For some people it's ok but for others who don't really want to bother with crafting you are left with gathering or grinding. People wouldn't have too much of an issue with grinding if there were things to grind on, but again, mobs are pretty limited in a lot of areas.
The thing is I see a lot of people talking about 'this game doesn't hold your hand' and they are correct. What they fail to mention is it does guide you through limitations and tries to control your play. Basically where other games give a player choices on what they can do, this one tells you your choices.
The reviews also point out that the game released in a terrible state, which might have been fine oh 7 years ago, but isn't acceptable now. Look at reviews of other MMOs that have come out in the same condition in the last few years, they pretty much all got the same complaint. Will the game get better over time? Sure. Is it worth spending money on currently? Not really, and thats what these reviews are pointing out.
Now if you look at the positive reviews the game has recieved, they gloss over the gameplay itself and constantly focus only on the graphics and general 'prettiness' of the game. If anything, those are the dishonest reviews.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Speaking for myself... I was referring to people overall who want to reduce the argument to being "about the UI", despite myriad other examples and reasons given. You aren't the only one to have brought that up. Many people, on many threads, across several websites have done it and continue to do it as well.
Don't take it personally
.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Lazy strawman response.
No one is comparing it to WoW, except the people who, like yourself, insist on invoking it to dismiss valid complaints being cited by a substantial number of people.
Responding to every complaint or criticism about a game (FFXIV or otherwise) with some retort about how "people are upset because it's not like WoW", when no one has made any such comparison... is lazy, weak and irrelevant.
If I were to take a similar tact as you, I could represent the other side of argument as such: "If people don't like it, it's because they want it to be like WoW!". Of course, that would be equally lazy on my part, which is why I wouldn't say such a thing.
Try harder.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I played the game from the earliest closed beta until the end of open beta and I've listened to whats come out since release and I have to say this review is spot on.
Sad thing is I wanted this game to succeed, when they tell a story it's a good one, the design is amazing but without some serious attention this game is going to fail except for a very small niche crowd (no idea what that niche is exactly but it obviously exists}
SE deserve to hear the reception is bad otherwise they'll sit on their ass and do nothing for this or future releases.
It's a shame to see the real potential of this game go to waste, will SE step up to the mark ?
I agree, the major downfall of this game at the moment is Userbilityu Engineering, it is in a shocking state, the lag/ui lag and the UI in generally makes all the good features seem distant and hard to enjoy just getting over that hurdle is a major nuisance and will make or break this game depending on what action they take.
And to reply to an earlier post "Nobody is comparing it to WoW" OH WAKE THE HELL UP. simple complaints like "Only 8 quests to do a day" (actually its 16) and multiplied by a very high ammount depending on your party size (he didnt even know you could do this probably, or didnt even mention it as a counter, same as gamespot review) failing that you have BEHEST every hour which is documented.... so where he sees "8 quests" I see 5 hours worht of 50+ on a regular bases.
"Story is far and few between" .... at least its actually presented in a more believable manner, and this wasnt a complaint for FF11 (though that was 2 years old by review time).
The combat mocking was just laughable.... I could of made a godamn review video witha low level solo gnome trying to kill a high level mob with auto attacks and dying... what kinda fkin input was that other than a half arsed mock? no battle regimens? no real party play?
The review picked up on the bad, but didnt even WANT to go further (and thats the games problem right there agreed, all down to userbility.)
You need a hand to get off your high horse?
I think alot of SE's problem is they feel invincable because they are one of the few companies left that make JRPG's for the west.. now if your a long term fan of the FF series, you know the problems present in 13, those mainstream sites didn't tear into it too badly, then they come out with this.
Its not that the game isn't perfect, no mmo is "perfect" its that they decided to ignore so many concepts that are tried and true. They don't have to have some thing called an auction house, but they needed something that allows for a central area for people to look up what they need, find it quickly, but it and get back to playing ithe game. Mail system, what if I want to tell a friend in game i won't be online tomorrow at 6 like we talked about before he went offline? and like it or not there are certain standards in UI that have come to be accepted, now I'm not saying you have to have Wow's layout, but when you have a controller with over 50 buttons, why should you have to click more than one button to open your inventory or look at your skills? so that the game can be easily transferred to console? Why not add that functionality in for if you use a console, and have a single keybind system for those who use a keyboard, a "hotkey" system if you will.
Now I'm all for people enjoying this game, regardless of its flaws, there are some games that I really like that I can totally admit are not the best games in the world....
but I admit that. If you want to like FF14 thats fine, but don't talk as if it is some huge leap in the evolution of MMO's,. don't even say that it is keeping up with todays standards....its not. it has too many systems in place to restrict its players. resctrictions make something less accessable, and that is what MMO's are becomeing is more accessable. (fatigue, quest limits, those are inappopriate restrictions, that are a step back not forward.)
So yes your right, when a review site see's a game that is not accessable in many aspects, they are not going to give it a good review, cause it doesn't deserve one. you have to remember they are reviewing this site for the masses, not just a minority. so be happy your not one of the ones who fits in, its a good thing.
My Thoughts on Content Locust
Quite the contrary my friend. First, the review is spot on and I'm not a hater. I've stated more then once on the forums I stubbornly tried to like the game at the point of torturing myself, but the game is without any fun or merit to be had. I'm an old school gamer that grew up on MUDs so a challenge isn't ever a problem to me, but the inability of said challenge to be fun is downright crippling. FF14 falls on its face and the reviews will continue to come out and rip this game apart, as it deserves. Will SE step up to the mark? As I said to start my rant, quite the contrary my friend. I believe this is clearly the beginning of the end of FF as a franchise and SE as a 'major' powerhouse within the industry. The last few FF have been incredibly lackluster, and outside of dragonsquest in the Eastern market, SE has been completely out of touch with this new generation of games for sometime now. The last few FF have shown that the original brains behind the FF series have long since either moved on, or fallen out of touch with reality of gaming. Either way, this is the garbage we're stuck with.
I do enjoy the game so far, to my own suprise actually. But, the UI, wow it is bad, the worst I have ever seen for any MMO. There is a reason most MMO:s share most elements of their UI, but this, ugh, it is very very cumbersome.
You're not quite right here. It is the game that is one sided - one-sidedly terrible. If not for that, maybe reviews would be able to look at something positive. Unfortunatley you cannot find what doesn't exist.
Odd. I took it to mean they were talking about just about every other MMO in existence. I can't recall the last time I wasn't able to open my inventory with anything more than a single keypress.
Welcome to 1994? How such a simple feature could be overlooked is mind boggling.
That's exactly my point. Read the initial post.
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
Hmmm thats funny. I think FFXIV is very enjoyable and has a few things that need "touching up" (and SE is doing just that) so I think all these reviewers are kind of out on a limb and havent really played the game. I hope these people aren't actually being paid to write these reviews because they are obviously not doing the required research nor are they likely quallified to do so.
My theme song.
I cant help but think that if this was on the ps3 only, it would get more forgiving reviews. It has to be compared to every other computer MMO out there, and it just cant stand up to the basic experience and user firendliness. It just seems to have been designed with ONLY console play in mind, and if that was the case it should never have been released on PC.
I have played the game and tried to blindly like it to support SE, but you gotta call it like you see it and FF14 is just a polished turd. Yea it looks pretty, but it isn't ever any fun and is just so... bland. It comes off as a competetor for EQ1 with pretty graphics. Did SE not get the memo that EQ1 died over 10 yrs ago? SE hasn't made a good game in almost 10 years so I guess them not getting the memo doesn't shock me. I think it may have gotten more forgiving reviews on console only, then again, maybe not. The ps3 alone has an abundance of titles that would be infinitely more fun than this. I'd play Demons souls 1000x over before I set foot in FF14 again. If you enjoy the game, more power to you and I hope they fix things. If not, you are hardly alone and you didn't miss anything but a painfully boring gaming experience that doesn't push the genre forward in anyway but graphically, the genre actually went back 10 yrs with this game. Bioware and Arenanet, look long and hard at this game's epic failure and don't repeat the same poor mistakes that could have easily been avoided.