Is WoW patch v.4.0.1 the new NGE???

chuckd74

The game seem's to have been dumbed down, simplied, can Blizzard pull off what SOE could not with SWG it's not quite as drastic as what SOE done but damn it seems to have changed to core of the game.  Wonder if it will have the same effect on it's player base as the NGE did on SWG.

godzilr1

i highly doubt it.  with every expansion a game is somehow changed and features are added.  what SOE did was a complete revamp of everything, not just added features.  With WoW, people can still play they just need to get used to the new numbers and new specs, with SWG it was an overhaul so big most couldn't adjust.

Possum

dont think so,

cataclysm is changing the world not the system... at least not as much as nge did.

many wow players got bored by the old world and now the get a new one to explore.

in one point you are right, wow is going to be dumbed down and soon you will only have to start the game and an addon will play the whole game for you.

Beachcomber

You would have thought it would be hard to dumb it down much more, but hey they managed it.

 

Methos12

I'm so freaking tired of people trying to turn everything to sensationalism these days.

vanderghast

Originally posted by Elidien

For the thousandth time, no. The game is not simplified just because pointless and useless talents were removed from the game and the good talents, the talents everyone love, were left.

Seriously, tell me how much sense it made for me to use 5 talent points for 5% more mana. It was stupid to start with and finally its been fixed.

The only people truly complaining were ones who do not know how to play their class and are mad that now they cannot rule WOW with a two buttoned, macro'ed, button smashing ignorance. Trust me, after doing a few randoms tanks who can manage threat, DPS who can watch their agro and crowd control that knows what to do will become a precious commodity.

EDIT: And Possum is correct. Addons dumb the game down, not the game itself. I raided with healers that could not play if Healbot was broken and Druids who couldn't decurse if Decursive was broken. Play the game minus the addons and we'll chat.

 

 

You don't consider the fact that you have to spend 31 points in a single tree before you can open another to be dumbed down?  It completely removes any customization and tree dabbling that people did before and creates essentially 3 specs.

 

Removing talents isn't the issue, removing choice is.

Murashu

Not even close. SOE removed entire classes and professions, changed the combat mechanics, and revamped the entire character progression system, while telling us they weren't doing anything.

 

Blizzard trimmed down the bloated talent trees and attributes, and modified many existing abilities, otherwise, most classes play and feel very similar to what they were before the change.

 

The one negative effect I see is they made every class so over-powered, compared to the current PvE content, that people are going to feel very under-powered when they hit the Cata content in two months.

chuckd74

LOL I never used an add-on or macro in any MMO I had played well ok I take that back, I used on in Ultima Online many years ago forgot what it was called but all it did was monitor the amount of regeants my mage had on him.  All I am saying is yesterdays patch seems like a pretty major change to what we were used to as I said before not quite what the NGE was but damn I am giving it a chance but ouch not sure I like it.  Been playing MMO's for many years and in my experience whenever they do something like this (which I have seen done in a few MMO's) it's not usally a good thing.

Ramonski7

Leave it to this board to call a filet mignon a cheap little steak. I bet they think breathing is over simplified and too easy too. I wonder how'd they fair if they stop having to do it?

Malcanis

Damb, I thought only EVE players had to endure threads like this.

Sorry, WoW guys, I was blind to your suffering

mklinic

In my opinion the CU and NGE combo changed the core of SWG by changing mechanics and removing classes altogether.

The core of WoW has not changed. It is still a "themepark' style game and still has all the classes it had pre-4.0.1. The same raids and dungeons are available, albeit slightly easier from my initial impression. The game still plays the same with a few new spells and a few removed spells (speaking from a shadow priest perspective).

Additionally, when the CU was implemented, a majority of my PA and friends list expressed disapproval and an intent to quit the game. As I understand it, the NGE was met with similar results (though I was gone by then). With 4.0.1 implemented, a majority of my guild has expressed positive views with only minor frustrations in adjusting to talent respecs (which we've had in the past and have not fundamentally changed the game).

This is all purely anecdotal evidence though. Each person is going to draw their own conclusion. Call me when they change the game to a skill point system and I'll agree with you on the NGE thing

Jellypig

Originally posted by Methos12

I'm so freaking tired of people trying to turn everything to sensationalism these days.

Agreed.  100%.  I'm also sick of people bashing wow when it comes to the effort required to play it.  It is a very easy game to play but hard to master.  I'm not a fan of WoW or blizzard but how many of you have actually played at an expert level in this game?  Hard modes?  High arena ratings?  Was that easy?  I'm certain a few addons made it so you got to the top level of competition in the game, right?  Press a couple buttons and presto, best gear in the game.  Give me a goddamn break.

Kyleran

Naw, every time Blizzard tries to screw things up by changing things they end up making bushel baskets of  money.

They'll likely continue to screw the game up until it gets to 15M subs.

faxnadu

Originally posted by Methos12

I'm so freaking tired of people trying to turn everything to sensationalism these days.

true and also also trying to do that as " i was first " base...

slim26

Originally posted by Kyleran

Naw, every time Blizzard tries to screw things up by changing things they end up making bushel baskets of  money.

They'll likely continue to screw the game up until it gets to 15M subs.

LMFAO.

Joliust

---

Originally posted by Kyleran
Naw, every time Blizzard tries to screw things up by changing things they end up making bushel baskets of  money.
They'll likely continue to screw the game up until it gets to 15M subs.

---

Very true.

Maybe if a sandbox game becomes popular blizzard will completely change the game into a really poor sandbox MMO. Then it would be like the NGE.

dirtyjoe78

They definately changed a lot with core class mechanics, the question is did they change it so much that the community will be hard pressed to adapt.  The number crunchers and min/maxers have a new pet project.  Some classes definately got the shaft until cata releases and casters are what ret pallies were when they released the pre WoTLK patch.  time will tell if they made the right decisions with the game i tend to think that the class imbalance is only going to hurt things until cata releases and that the huge difference in how classes play is not a bridgeable gap in 5 levels but then it is gear based and they completely changed how that stuff works.

astrob0y

Originally posted by Elidien

EDIT: And Possum is correct. Addons dumb the game down, not the game itself. I raided with healers that could not play if Healbot was broken and Druids who couldn't decurse if Decursive was broken. Play the game minus the addons and we'll chat.

Ive to agree with that. Sometime when TBC was fresh something happend with the addons and my former guild cancelled the raids becuse the raid wouldnt work without the addons. And were in a quite good pve guild

Faelsun

Originally posted by Elidien

For the thousandth time, no. The game is not simplified just because pointless and useless talents were removed from the game and the good talents, the talents everyone love, were left.

Seriously, tell me how much sense it made for me to use 5 talent points for 5% more mana. It was stupid to start with and finally its been fixed.

The only people truly complaining were ones who do not know how to play their class and are mad that now they cannot rule WOW with a two buttoned, macro'ed, button smashing ignorance. Trust me, after doing a few randoms tanks who can manage threat, DPS who can watch their agro and crowd control that knows what to do will become a precious commodity.

EDIT: And Possum is correct. Addons dumb the game down, not the game itself. I raided with healers that could not play if Healbot was broken and Druids who couldn't decurse if Decursive was broken. Play the game minus the addons and we'll chat.

 

 

 

 Pointless and useless talents, thats what I keep hearing But for every bad ass player with hybrid builds there is someone out there cursing you for your ignorance. Sub rogues HAD to hybrid because their bottom talents were just not that good, Ghostcrawler was often and repeated critisized for making bad End tree talents, he wants to say he solved a lot of problems with the trees by Forcing everyone to use the same lame end tree talents while at the same time reducing their choices outside the trees.

I can see rogues and Shaman being really agitated right off the bat, this puts a HUGE dent in Shadow priest defensive abilities, because they like the other classes that are DPS trees now forced to be PURE DPS as in no PVP dps builds and that is probably correct for healers as well, pigeon holed into being pure healz not BG hybrid healers or specilzed half and half pvp builds.

What the simple minded and players that dont want to think dont understand is that this removes not only chioces in the trees but the flexibility just so GC can feel good about himself and pat himself on the back. I mentioned the haste hunter and someone said, well whats wrong with Marksmen hunters being forced into haste builds. What you dont understand is that IS the Marks hunter tree now, a Haste DPS build.. period, no choice, no customization within the tree or any divergence outside of it. Where you could onece take Survival Marks or Marks Survival trees, tie them up and make a custom build for your particular situation now you take cookie cutter hunter builds, and believe me when I made a hybrid Marks/BM hunter I didnt have ANY useless talents, there are not many useless talents.. well maybe a few..... but there are DEFINATELY Many useless players.

farginwar

After playing the game off and on since launch I have to say v.4.0.1 feels a bit like THIS.

 

I'm still undecided as to whether this drastic change is good or bad for the future of World of Warcraft.

DerWotan

Well guys told ya so. You are in Ghostcrawlers world now -> World of Ghostcrawlercraft if you think patch 4.0.1 will be the end no its just the beginning of constantly nerfs, overpowering aso. We have a golden rule in the IT "if its not broken don't fix it".

I mean hunters without arrows and a whole new focus mechanic wtf? Why not just convert mana into focus which would have been basically a renaming nothing more. If someone would have told me that they somehow manage to dumb down this game even further I'd  have told them "wtf this game can't become any easier" sadly Ghostcrawler again surprised everyone :-)

SuperXero89

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Leave it to this board to call a filet mignon a cheap little steak. I bet they think breathing is over simplified and too easy too. I wonder how'd they fair if they stop having to do it?

I love your sigs.

Daitengu

Originally posted by Elidien

Originally posted by DerWotan

Well guys told ya so. You are in Ghostcrawlers world now -> World of Ghostcrawlercraft if you think patch 4.0.1 will be the end no its just the beginning of constantly nerfs, overpowering aso. We have a golden rule in the IT "if its not broken don't fix it".

I mean hunters without arrows and a whole new focus mechanic wtf? Why not just convert mana into focus which would have been basically a renaming nothing more. If someone would have told me that they somehow manage to dumb down this game even further I'd  have told them "wtf this game can't become any easier" sadly Ghostcrawler again surprised everyone :-)

Um mana is gone for hunters and was replaced by focus. In addition, I think nobody is upset to see ammo gone. It was nothing but a money sink and basically worthless and pointless.

Personally I'm glad to see mana go. I've wanted hunters to be on the focus system since release. But the goring of the talent tree and pigeon holing me to be a haste spec Marks for max dmg is really lame. Totally killing my rotations for arcane arrow and steady shot spam is even lamer.  And R.I.P. Volley shot T.T

tanoril

Another misinformed thread from someone who probably doesn't even play the game.  It's hard to believe they do, because it doesn't reflect the reality of what's in the game.  How can you complain about customization when anyone who is serious about their character mostly uses the cookie cutter builds, with slight dabbling?  And the dabbling was talents that were mostly inconsequential anyway.  Anyone who mentions NGE obviously wasn't around when Sony did that to SWG because it's something completely different.  We're talking about whole classes (in some cases, removed classes) and game mechanics changing. 

Once again, people will complain no matter what Blizzard does.  They could be running a lemonade stand and people will bitch that there are not enough lemons.

Beachcomber

Are cracks appearing in the Blizzard-WoW juggernaut ?

Patch 4.0.1 is a massive patch and it appears to have been let on the live servers full of bugs. This is a major first. Are Vivendi/Activision pushing for release at expense of previous quality.

The in game changes are also quite severe. Talent trees reduced giving players less choice. I play/played a Resto Shaman and the look of that talent tree is somewhat underwhelming. I took a break until the Cata and im not really feeling motivated to go back.

Is this the begining of the end?

 

Joarnaj

Actually, I think the game has been smarted up. Yes, some stats have been merged but in terms of how to use abilities there seems to be a lot more complexity. For example, yesterday I spent a lot of time on my shadow priest figuring out how to make the most out of the orbs. I can no longer just use the same spell rotation over and over, but must be mindful of when the orbs are proc'ed and use spells accordingly. I also have to be MUCH more careful of Shadow Word: Death because of the massively increased damage to me so Death has been pulled from my standard rotation altogether and will become situational. I even learned that if I'm low on damage standing still is not an option because you do more damage while moving.

As for my Discipline priest, gone are the days of spamming shields and flash heal. Flash heal is completely out. Now I'm using Smite, Heal in conjunction with Shield, Penance in conjunction with Archangel (but only after 5 stacks of Evangelism)and may throw in Greater Heal to help Penance, but I haven't quite figured out the effectiveness of that yet. From what I understand at level 85 there is no way to continuously bubble everyone in the raid like I used to do so everything becomes much, much more difficult. All in all, the priest is much more complex than it used to be - and I haven't even had a chance to look at my lvl 80 warrior yet. My understanding, though, is that most classes now require a lot more thought to play well.

As for talent trees, the decisions you make after your first 30 points are much more consequential than they used to be. Using my Shadow Priest as the example again, the Priest that goes for Dark Archangel will likely play dramatically different than the one who does not. Archangel is a HUGE power to have early in a tree. Prior to 4.0.1 the last 3 to 5  talents you took were pretty much throw away - you'd spend talents on something to give yourself a miniscule edge in pvp, or maybe you'd just throw talents into something because there was nothing better. Now the decisions you make just before 85 can completely alter your entire play style.

 

But, whatever. We all know WoW is stupid, appeals to only children, and just continuously dumbs everything down. Never mind that the best tank I've ever played with lamented to me last night, "I've never been so confused in over 5+ years of playing WoW."