THIS is their market *fix*? LOL

eyeswideopen

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/news/detail?newsId=dbb5a630f338f84b0b3583928bd4c19715154f30

- Market wards have been modified as follows:

* Wards are now assigned specific item categories.

* Items corresponding to a ward’s item category will receive lower tax rates than items that do not correspond to the category.

* For an example of the new ward names and item categories, please visit the following page:

( http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=693682a80ae927d74b11a0381c7cd1af570568aa )



 

So basically, you'll now only be able to sell one type of item or pay the higher tax for listing the wrong type in the particular ward your retainer is in, OR you'll have to buy multiple retainers to sell all your items easily.

 

Oh, here's the new market setup: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=693682a80ae927d74b11a0381c7cd1af570568aa

fyerwall

Wasn't there supposed to be a search feature added as well?

eyeswideopen

Originally posted by fyerwall

Wasn't there supposed to be a search feature added as well?

No, that was most of us *hoping* they were adding a search feature.

 

This crap will not work.

For one thing, the "tax" for placing the wrong item in the ward is simply the tax we all pay now.

So if you have 1 weapon, a couple crafting tools, a stack of foodstuff, and some crystals to sell, are you going to:

wait until you have 10 stacks of one type to sell to get the full use of your retainer;

buy enough extra retainers to be able to sell all of your items at any time at the "discount" tax rate;

or just put everything in the one retainer the same as you do now.

Paradoxy

Fallen earth is run by a small indie company and even they have been churning out ptaches since release day to fix issues. And company like SE with all this money and huge team, give us this pathetic update for something people have ben complaining since beta.

This has to be the most incompetent company to run a MMO. Not only they didn't add search feature they also didn't give us any extra retainers. Now i can't sell more then one type of items because of this and my inventory problem will get even worse.

Luthor_X

Hmm, sounds to me like SE needs to clean house in their dev department. That is, unless they are no longer concerned with the money making side of the business.

Alanako

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/news/detail?newsId=dbb5a630f338f84b0b3583928bd4c19715154f30



- Market wards have been modified as follows:

* Wards are now assigned specific item categories.

* Items corresponding to a ward’s item category will receive lower tax rates than items that do not correspond to the category.

* For an example of the new ward names and item categories, please visit the following page:

( http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=693682a80ae927d74b11a0381c7cd1af570568aa )



 

So basically, you'll now only be able to sell one type of item or pay the higher tax for listing the wrong type in the particular ward your retainer is in, OR you'll have to buy multiple retainers to sell all your items easily.

 

Oh, here's the new market setup: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=693682a80ae927d74b11a0381c7cd1af570568aa

 

You are not paying a higher tax for selling the "wrong" type of item as the tax its still 5%. you are selling the rigjt thpe of item at a reduced rate. Basically, if you have various typed of items you put your retainer on the ward of the type you would like to sell better .

Lowdos

More convoluted, uneccessary madness. Quite unbelievable.

alanthecelt

one fundamental issue i have, im level 20 physical atm

i havent bought ANYTHING except trade items, im not going to, i dont need new gear, and if i want something ill be bale to make it

the hassle of searching even one ward for 1 item.... id rather wait to collect or craft it myself

HOWEVER, my big hate still, my retainer and character is full and i end up vendoring most of my common mats off

eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Alanako

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/news/detail?newsId=dbb5a630f338f84b0b3583928bd4c19715154f30

- Market wards have been modified as follows:

* Wards are now assigned specific item categories.

* Items corresponding to a ward’s item category will receive lower tax rates than items that do not correspond to the category.

* For an example of the new ward names and item categories, please visit the following page:

( http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=693682a80ae927d74b11a0381c7cd1af570568aa )



 

So basically, you'll now only be able to sell one type of item or pay the higher tax for listing the wrong type in the particular ward your retainer is in, OR you'll have to buy multiple retainers to sell all your items easily.

 

Oh, here's the new market setup: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=693682a80ae927d74b11a0381c7cd1af570568aa

 

You are not paying a higher tax for selling the "wrong" type of item as the tax its still 5%. you are selling the rigjt thpe of item at a reduced rate. Basically, if you have various typed of items you put your retainer on the ward of the type you would like to sell better .

And guess what? That's exactly what I said.

The "tax" if you ignore the ward and just put in any type of item is the same as it is now, but is a HIGHER tax than that placed on items of the "right" type for the ward.

Therefore, most players will just ignore the ward designation and sell all of their items at the same tax rate they pay now, rather than only sell 1 or 2 of their items to get the lower rate only.

There is no penalty or incentive to stop doing things the way they're already done.

fyerwall

Originally posted by Alanako

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/news/detail?newsId=dbb5a630f338f84b0b3583928bd4c19715154f30

- Market wards have been modified as follows:

* Wards are now assigned specific item categories.

* Items corresponding to a ward’s item category will receive lower tax rates than items that do not correspond to the category.

* For an example of the new ward names and item categories, please visit the following page:

( http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=693682a80ae927d74b11a0381c7cd1af570568aa )



 

So basically, you'll now only be able to sell one type of item or pay the higher tax for listing the wrong type in the particular ward your retainer is in, OR you'll have to buy multiple retainers to sell all your items easily.

 

Oh, here's the new market setup: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=693682a80ae927d74b11a0381c7cd1af570568aa

 

You are not paying a higher tax for selling the "wrong" type of item as the tax its still 5%. you are selling the rigjt thpe of item at a reduced rate. Basically, if you have various typed of items you put your retainer on the ward of the type you would like to sell better .

Aye,

If you are say selling items that are mostly armor you will benefit more by placing your retainer in that specific ward (by getting a tax break).

If you don't bother selling in that specific ward, then you won't really notice a difference from what you pay now tax wise.

So basically when you enter a specific ward you have a 'better' chance at finding the item type you are looking for, but overall nothing is really that much more different than the current system where you still have to wade through other crap to find what you are looking for. At least until people are allowed to purchase more retainers.

eyeswideopen

Originally posted by fyerwall

Originally posted by Alanako

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/news/detail?newsId=dbb5a630f338f84b0b3583928bd4c19715154f30

- Market wards have been modified as follows:

* Wards are now assigned specific item categories.

* Items corresponding to a ward’s item category will receive lower tax rates than items that do not correspond to the category.

* For an example of the new ward names and item categories, please visit the following page:

( http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=693682a80ae927d74b11a0381c7cd1af570568aa )



 

So basically, you'll now only be able to sell one type of item or pay the higher tax for listing the wrong type in the particular ward your retainer is in, OR you'll have to buy multiple retainers to sell all your items easily.

 

Oh, here's the new market setup: http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=693682a80ae927d74b11a0381c7cd1af570568aa

 

You are not paying a higher tax for selling the "wrong" type of item as the tax its still 5%. you are selling the rigjt thpe of item at a reduced rate. Basically, if you have various typed of items you put your retainer on the ward of the type you would like to sell better .

Aye,

If you are say selling items that are mostly armor you will benefit more by placing your retainer in that specific ward (by getting a tax break).

If you don't bother selling in that specific ward, then you won't really notice a difference from what you pay now tax wise.

So basically when you enter a specific ward you have a 'better' chance at finding the item type you are looking for, but overall nothing is really that much more different than the current system where you still have to wade through other crap to find what you are looking for. At least until people are allowed to purchase more retainers.

Purchasing an extra retainer to hold my overflowing inventory can be considered a justifiable expense if I so choose to do so.

Being forced to purchase more retainers to comply with ward designations just to sell my crap the "correct" way is not.

I'll just be doing what I already do. Put all the slow selling crap on my retainer and park her in whatever ward fits the type of item she has most of, and sell all the big money stuff on my personal bazaar while standing AFK and contributing to the lag in the market district, by the inn, or by the Aetherate crystal.

WSIMike

IMO, it's really a half-assed band-aid for an unnecessary and poorly conceived system.

Some people were suggesting having the community designate, on a per server basis, what floors would feature what items... this was before SE announced it's what they would be doing. Most people didn't go for it, stating instead "just give us a search function".

In my opinion, if they'd gone with a system more like Lineage 2's and add a search function that lets you type in a partial word or abbreviation, and then highlights any retainers on that floor that match... that would save people *a lot* of time.

Hell.. if they want to make it more "immersive" than that, then fine, have a NPC there that acts as a sort of Ward Manager. As they manage that floor, they're aware of what each Retainer is selling. So, you talk to them, enter a partial word or abbreviation.. and they highlight the retainers that match the search.

I'm sure SE had a very different expectation of how players would take to this Market Ward system... But I can't fathom how they'd think the implementation they chose would go over well. It's not immersive, it's tedious, it's slow and it's unintuitive - even with the updates.

eyeswideopen

Originally posted by WSIMike

IMO, it's really a half-assed band-aid for an unnecessary and poorly conceived system.

Some people were suggesting having the community designate, on a per server basis, what floors would feature what items... this was before SE announced it's what they would be doing. Most people didn't go for it, stating instead "just give us a search function".

In my opinion, if they'd gone with a system more like Lineage 2's and add a search function that lets you type in a partial word or abbreviation, and then highlights any retainers on that floor that match... that would save people *a lot* of time.

Hell.. if they want to make it more "immersive" than that, then fine, have a NPC there that acts as a sort of Ward Manager. As they manage that floor, they're aware of what each Retainer is selling. So, you talk to them, enter a partial word or abbreviation.. and they highlight the retainers that match the search.

I'm sure SE had a very different expectation of how players would take to this Market Ward system... But I can't fathom how they'd think the implementation they chose would go over well. It's not immersive, it's tedious, it's slow and it's unintuitive - even with the updates.

Actually Mike, looking at how they set up the vendor system ( coupled with all the insane limitations that, conveniently, would comply with Chinese laws on mmo games such as limiting amount of time played ), I'm starting to think the rumors of SE outsourcing more than just some translations to the Chinese for development may have some truth.

Would also explain why there is an AH in the game, yet it was disabled while instead vendors were put in.

WSIMike

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by WSIMike

IMO, it's really a half-assed band-aid for an unnecessary and poorly conceived system.

Some people were suggesting having the community designate, on a per server basis, what floors would feature what items... this was before SE announced it's what they would be doing. Most people didn't go for it, stating instead "just give us a search function".

In my opinion, if they'd gone with a system more like Lineage 2's and add a search function that lets you type in a partial word or abbreviation, and then highlights any retainers on that floor that match... that would save people *a lot* of time.

Hell.. if they want to make it more "immersive" than that, then fine, have a NPC there that acts as a sort of Ward Manager. As they manage that floor, they're aware of what each Retainer is selling. So, you talk to them, enter a partial word or abbreviation.. and they highlight the retainers that match the search.

I'm sure SE had a very different expectation of how players would take to this Market Ward system... But I can't fathom how they'd think the implementation they chose would go over well. It's not immersive, it's tedious, it's slow and it's unintuitive - even with the updates.

Actually Mike, looking at how they set up the vendor system ( coupled with all the insane limitations that, conveniently, would comply with Chinese laws on mmo games such as limiting amount of time played ), I'm starting to think the rumors of SE outsourcing more than just some translations to the Chinese for development may have some truth.

Would also explain why there is an AH in the game, yet it was disabled while instead vendors were put in.

 

Hmm... I'm following you on the first part. But can you elaborate on the AH portion? I may not have had enough coffee yet, but I'm not quite following that bit... Chinese players are against AH's?

AnimatorKid

Originally posted by WSIMike

IMO, it's really a half-assed band-aid for an unnecessary and poorly conceived system.

Some people were suggesting having the community designate, on a per server basis, what floors would feature what items... this was before SE announced it's what they would be doing. Most people didn't go for it, stating instead "just give us a search function".

In my opinion, if they'd gone with a system more like Lineage 2's and add a search function that lets you type in a partial word or abbreviation, and then highlights any retainers on that floor that match... that would save people *a lot* of time.

Hell.. if they want to make it more "immersive" than that, then fine, have a NPC there that acts as a sort of Ward Manager. As they manage that floor, they're aware of what each Retainer is selling. So, you talk to them, enter a partial word or abbreviation.. and they highlight the retainers that match the search.

I'm sure SE had a very different expectation of how players would take to this Market Ward system... But I can't fathom how they'd think the implementation they chose would go over well. It's not immersive, it's tedious, it's slow and it's unintuitive - even with the updates.

10 yeard in FFXI and all they ever did was "Band Aid" the problems.

Sovrath

It's not really a good fix. Besides, it seems that players have sort of decided on the best places to sell their wares. In camps and in crafting areas.

At least from what I've seen.

And with a system like this that's as it should be.

eyeswideopen

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Originally posted by WSIMike

IMO, it's really a half-assed band-aid for an unnecessary and poorly conceived system.

Some people were suggesting having the community designate, on a per server basis, what floors would feature what items... this was before SE announced it's what they would be doing. Most people didn't go for it, stating instead "just give us a search function".

In my opinion, if they'd gone with a system more like Lineage 2's and add a search function that lets you type in a partial word or abbreviation, and then highlights any retainers on that floor that match... that would save people *a lot* of time.

Hell.. if they want to make it more "immersive" than that, then fine, have a NPC there that acts as a sort of Ward Manager. As they manage that floor, they're aware of what each Retainer is selling. So, you talk to them, enter a partial word or abbreviation.. and they highlight the retainers that match the search.

I'm sure SE had a very different expectation of how players would take to this Market Ward system... But I can't fathom how they'd think the implementation they chose would go over well. It's not immersive, it's tedious, it's slow and it's unintuitive - even with the updates.

Actually Mike, looking at how they set up the vendor system ( coupled with all the insane limitations that, conveniently, would comply with Chinese laws on mmo games such as limiting amount of time played ), I'm starting to think the rumors of SE outsourcing more than just some translations to the Chinese for development may have some truth.

Would also explain why there is an AH in the game, yet it was disabled while instead vendors were put in.

 

Hmm... I'm following you on the first part. But can you elaborate on the AH portion? I may not have had enough coffee yet, but I'm not quite following that bit... Chinese players are against AH's?

Well, if SE had added the AH originally, before giving the Chinese the go ahead, then........

How many Chinese mmos with an AH do you see? Most I've seen have the vendors sitting around.

And obviously, SE would have to act like they put the vendors in themselves, or they'd be verifying the rumors, which would hurt them even moreso with their Japanese customers than it would with us.

And look how the Japanese gamers are ripping them already, FFXIV plays very much like a Chinese made mmo.

Can't find the damn link right now, but apparently some players did a database rip and found that an AH is actually sitting dormant in the game.

WSIMike

Originally posted by Sovrath

It's not really a good fix. Besides, it seems that players have sort of decided on the best places to sell their wares. In camps and in crafting areas.

At least from what I've seen.

And with a system like this that's as it should be.

-cough-cough- Giran Square -cough-cough-

 

Seriously though, I agree with you Sovrath.

SE had the right *idea* in making the economy player-driven, etc... I actually like that approach, at least as much as an AH.

However, I think where SE went South is when they tried to direct *how* players would set it up.

It's like SE said "We're going to leave it up to the players to establish a market... the way we tell them to". They need to remove the "way we tell them to" part.

I mean, if they'd paid attention in XI - even with its AH - players did figure out their own way to sell their wares on their Bazaars... When the tax was in place in Jeuno, they would stand outside the gates in one of the neighboring areas; and different servers seemed to choose different zones for it. When SE removed the Jeuno tax, you started seeing people gathering in Ru'lude Gardens, the top-most floor of Jeuno (at least on Pandemonium and later Asura).. which is a great spot for it for at least three reasons:

1. Next to Upper Jeuno, it's probably the least visited level of the city. The main reason people really go up there, really, is to gather for Dynamis Jeuno. So, fewer people = less lag = better spot to set up a shop.

2. It's where you're sent when you teleport back to Jeuno from Whitegate, so people are consistently teleporting in.

3. It's a "cross-roads" area for the lower levels and is where a lot of players converge from around level 20 'til they're ready to move on to Aht Urghan.

Whether by design, or simply by intuition, the players worked that out. SE didn't have to do a thing.

Players can figure things like that out on their own if allowed. I think SE needs to learn to remove themselves from the equation more. Take a page from NCSoft with L2... Set the stage, give the players the tools they need, and get out of the way.

In ways, SE reminds me of an over-zealous manager at a job who feels the need to micro-manage everything the employees are doing. I got that impression in XI as well... but never quite so much as I've seen it in XIV so far.

Torvac

i loled. add to my list of complaints about this game:

- lack of will and ability to fix

eyeswideopen

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Sovrath

It's not really a good fix. Besides, it seems that players have sort of decided on the best places to sell their wares. In camps and in crafting areas.

At least from what I've seen.

And with a system like this that's as it should be.

-cough-cough- Giran Square -cough-cough-

 

Seriously though, I agree with you Sovrath.

SE had the right *idea* in making the economy player-driven, etc... I actually like that approach, at least as much as an AH.

However, I think where SE went South is when they tried to direct *how* players would set it up.

It's like SE said "We're going to leave it up to the players to establish a market... the way we tell them to". They need to remove the "way we tell them to" part.

I mean, if they'd paid attention in XI - even with its AH - players did figure out their own way to sell their wares on their Bazaars... When the tax was in place in Jeuno, they would stand outside the gates in one of the neighboring areas; and different servers seemed to choose different zones for it. When SE removed the Jeuno tax, you started seeing people gathering in Ru'lude Gardens, the top-most floor of Jeuno (at least on Pandemonium and later Asura).. which is a great spot for it for at least three reasons:

1. Next to Upper Jeuno, it's probably the least visited level of the city. The main reason people really go up there, really, is to gather for Dynamis Jeuno. So, fewer people = less lag = better spot to set up a shop.

2. It's where you're sent when you teleport back to Jeuno from Whitegate, so people are consistently teleporting in.

3. It's a "cross-roads" area for the lower levels and is where a lot of players converge from around level 20 'til they're ready to move on to Aht Urghan.

Whether by design, or simply by intuition, the players worked that out. SE didn't have to do a thing.

Players can figure things like that out on their own if allowed. I think SE needs to learn to remove themselves from the equation more. Take a page from NCSoft with L2... Set the stage, give the players the tools they need, and get out of the way.

In ways, SE reminds me of an over-zealous manager at a job who feels the need to micro-manage everything the employees are doing. I got that impression in XI as well... but never quite so much as I've seen it in XIV so far.

I'd have been more happy if they just left out the wards and let me sit afk with my personal bazaar and a sign I could prop over my head, like they do in Korean and Chinese mmos, rather than this convoluted mess.. Of course, I'd have been completely happy if they'd just copy and pasted the AH from FFXI and been done with it.

Sovrath

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Sovrath

It's not really a good fix. Besides, it seems that players have sort of decided on the best places to sell their wares. In camps and in crafting areas.

At least from what I've seen.

And with a system like this that's as it should be.

-cough-cough- Giran Square -cough-cough-

 

Seriously though, I agree with you Sovrath.

SE had the right *idea* in making the economy player-driven, etc... I actually like that approach, at least as much as an AH.

However, I think where SE went South is when they tried to direct *how* players would set it up.

And that's the thing, they are sort of working at odds with the system they created. If anything they are stifling the economy by doing that.

All they have to do is to have a system where people can put labels over their retainers, like in L2. I get that part of the UI is to keep it out of the way, same with player signs. so They should make it so that you hit "shift" or something like that and the retainer signs goes up and you can see what people are advertising.

I mean, how many times did we see in L2 where there were people selling Drac bows and say, Ancient Adena and seal stones. Or any combination of anything else. Now if players want to use these wards they are going to have to pick what they are going to be taxed on more?

 

AnimatorKid

Did the player driven econ in FFXI really even work. I know it was ok if you followed the pack but I remember taking the summers off and coming back only to find it harder and harder to find gear in my range.

I am still not a fan of the wards, I still feel like I am suppose to buy another retainer just to make it work for me. Just like I felt like I had to buy a couple mules in FFXI to make that system work for me. Plus i feel that this just puts unwanted strain on a server that can barely run optimized now.

eyeswideopen

Here's one place discussing the fact there is an auction house currently dormant in FFXIV:http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=128161112211027101&howmany=50

And a pic apparently from beta:

KyutaSyuko

Maybe it's just me, but part of my enjoyment in playing MMOs is window shopping and seeing what "steals" I can get.  Granted most of the time I am browsing for a particular item (usually weapons or armor though not any particular one) and I actually like the "fix" they added in because now rather then run all over the place I can goto the specific ward and browse and maybe hit up some of the other wards as well.

Shoju

Originally posted by Paradoxy

Not only they didn't add search feature they also didn't give us any extra retainers.

And why would they?  This system 'encourages' players to 'want' to purchase more retainers which is more money in the bank for Square Enix.

wizyear2099

Well I like the sorting of the wards they do help. The tooltip about which ward you enter does appear after you join the ward in text but we can see from any ff site descriptions. would be nice to have that before you enter so I wouldn't have to look that info up all the time. but I just ran inside the Chirurgeons Ward to buy fish glue. nicely working yes... but I can see this happening. someone walking into the wards an buying people out an reselling for more. i seen it when i was there just now with the fish glue. someone selling it 500 each. next person copies it.

Whole thing about markets systems is gold selling problems an flux+++ prices, auction house screw up this if you havent noticed in games. Known for raping marketsystems with gold selling an everyone hates it an floods the games with retarded prices. an chat spam because it becomes a fashion to the AH's. That is why they wanted to search as if its "sneaker net". with this system you wont be gettin flux prices because if they want your stuff they have to buy from your merchant. or someone elses. theres no point in playing the game normally if you can work AH's lol. no listed prices this way. but still checking things out to see how things work.