The only thing STO has going for it in the future is The Foundery. The Foundery is what they named the new user generated content that will begin testing in November. It will greatly change the quest content and finally make STO more ST like. With stories written by the fans for the fans. Stories that can start with just about any NPC anywhere in the galaxy. This will be fun for ST fans, but sadly, STO will never be a good MMO because of the space in a box design. EVE is a sandbox and can not be compared to STO which is a Themepark. Good try though in the article. Too bad it failed as a fight.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
To match them up based on the space setting was clearly a bad idea as many people have already said. I think a comparisson between Eve and anothe sandbox, like DFO or UO would have been more appropriate.
They're both science fiction games, they both have space, they both take place in the future, they both have FTL travel, they both have wormholes, they both have spaceships, etc. etc.
For all intents and purposes they are both in competition with each other. While this match up wasn't exactly fair, (after all one was a rushed out the door profit-mongering piece of garbage, the other was made with careful talant, skill and love for their work) it is still a perfectly valid match up.
You can't say "they're both different types of games!" (i.e. sandbox and themepark) because they are both MMOs (one on a truly massive scale, the other barely an MMO at all,) and they are both video games. It's like you're saying "you can't compare Evl Dead 2 with The Shining! They're completely different types of films!" Well, yeah, both are different, but both are similer enough to warrant comparison.
Comparing the two was right because in essence they are a lot alike. But EVE wins, hands down, across the board on all counts when it comes to science fiction simulation space operas. Even though Star Trek has a great history and rich lore, translating it into a great game was too big a task for Cryptic.
Would Star Trek translate into an EVE online type of format well? I think so.
Both of these games get roflstomped by Xwing Vs tiefighter. Why don't they make that into a MMO. You can have a EVE esque economy/community, with multiroll spaceships in a space plane that actually has no "Right side up" feelin.
Both of these games fail in that they have a sense of up and down. Like in EVE if you are warping in you might be warping "Downward" and you will only be able to pan around your ship based on the normal format similar to when you are flying at an even level.
I agree, this was a slaughter all the way, but it would be interesting to see it done again in about a year or so when SWTOR is released and has at least 6 months under its belt.
LOL, you will be lucky to see SWTOR released in a year.
If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25 cars that got 1000 MPG - Bill Gates
Will I love watching eve's alliance touraments and have been watching them since the 4th one, I found playing the game to be to boring and grindy beyond all hell as a new player. Eve is simply more for the people that have the huge amount of time to invest in it. Sto is more for the people that seek more instant grativication and have far less time to invest.
Weird, I actually play EVE because I see it as not being a grind. I mean come on, I train skills when I'm not playing. How is that a grind?
If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25 cars that got 1000 MPG - Bill Gates
Will I love watching eve's alliance touraments and have been watching them since the 4th one, I found playing the game to be to boring and grindy beyond all hell as a new player. Eve is simply more for the people that have the huge amount of time to invest in it. Sto is more for the people that seek more instant grativication and have far less time to invest.
Weird, I actually play EVE because I see it as not being a grind. I mean come on, I train skills when I'm not playing. How is that a grind?
Sorry, I have to step in here. Grinding L1's to L2's then L3's for standing to L4's? Grinding plexes? Grinding W-space combat sites? Mining: grinding ore? Grinding rats? Damn, even gatecamps are a grind when you think of it.
The good thing about EVE is that you don't feel it as much.
Despite the whole unfairness of the match-up, the bias on this article is of such magnitude that it makes reading the whole thing a rather boring chore. It just screams "I love EVE so much and I believe that STO sucks!". Is impartiality too much to ask for?
I don't particularly like EVE, but I completely agree with the article. STO is little more than Champions Online with a Star Trek skin.
you showed clear bias to digging sandbox games over theme park games.
article fail 2
i could go on and on but ill just leave at this.
Jon Wood, I know the site has to generate traffic based on "volunteer" articles. I get that. But given how many mmorpg fans there are, this is the best you guys can come up with these days?
/facepalm
Games i'm playing right now...
"In short, I thought NGE was a very bad idea" - Raph Koster talking about NGE on his blog at raphkoster.com
If it was published on some non-gaming magazine, I wouldn't mind and moved on with reading but considering it is not...it makes the author look quite ignorant and foolish.
Just because two games are space themed does not make them stand against each other.
Matching EVE online vs Star Trek Online is like matching up a 40k Librarian (extremly powerfull sorcerer for those that dont know of the 40k universe) with a ... potato...
Actually a potato would win. Afterall can you imagine him peeling it with his Forceblade!!!
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
I tried EVE. There were alot of things I liked about it (focus on developing skills, crafting & economy, community drama, large areas that are fought over, etc) but it just wasn't my style.
That being said, comparing EVE to STO is an insult to EVE. EVE has been out longer and has actually received quite a bit of TLC and a loyal following. It has far more depth than the dried, summertime sidewalk puddle of water that is STO.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Both of these games get roflstomped by Xwing Vs tiefighter. Why don't they make that into a MMO. You can have a EVE esque economy/community, with multiroll spaceships in a space plane that actually has no "Right side up" feelin.
Both of these games fail in that they have a sense of up and down. Like in EVE if you are warping in you might be warping "Downward" and you will only be able to pan around your ship based on the normal format similar to when you are flying at an even level.
I loved those games when they came out. Why dont you do what CCP did and go independent and make your own?
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Will I love watching eve's alliance touraments and have been watching them since the 4th one, I found playing the game to be to boring and grindy beyond all hell as a new player. Eve is simply more for the people that have the huge amount of time to invest in it. Sto is more for the people that seek more instant grativication and have far less time to invest.
Weird, I actually play EVE because I see it as not being a grind. I mean come on, I train skills when I'm not playing. How is that a grind?
Sorry, I have to step in here. Grinding L1's to L2's then L3's for standing to L4's? Grinding plexes? Grinding W-space combat sites? Mining: grinding ore? Grinding rats? Damn, even gatecamps are a grind when you think of it.
The good thing about EVE is that you don't feel it as much.
Great game.
Err yea you are confirming what the article said about the singleplayer experience.....which is a boring grind.
Anyway a terrable 1v1 article overall.
Just the fact it is less than a year old invalidates this topic. it would be better to compare STO with EvE when it was 6 months old. Or you could compare eve with another spaceship based MMO like say.........Oh yea!
Is it not sad that EvE is best because there is nothing else to compete!!!!
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
I am not sure this was a good choice for fighting talk; these two games are so different in concept. You would have been better off doing EvE versus Darkfall or STO versus CO. The idea that they are a good FT subject because they are both space MMO’s is unrealistic. If you are going to base these articles on theme you should be comparing story and background, the feel of the game. FT articles concentrate on gameplay, for that you need to be comparing similar MMO’s.
i played them both and i must say that the spacecombat of STO is fun and tactical..to see ships turning and you anticipating how to turn your ship so you have the uptimal shield and weapons pointing at them is really well done.
Spacecombat in EVE is kinda like looking at a radarscreen..its just not so interesting as in STO
ground combat in STO is kinda boring, but none existant in EVE.
Groupplay is almost none existant in STO, but in the end..so is EVE..YES..there are corps..and they mine or fight, but its not like everyday like the groupfighting in WOW..i was just as much alone in EVE as i was in STO.
so for me the scores are not so dark for STO and kinda darker for EVE
If you had a game with the spacecombat of STO with all the possibilities of weapons and tech of EVE...then i would live in that game..
you cant compare these 2 games. you better would compare EVE with Fallen Earth or even Uncharted Waters Online. there are some non-scifi games more comparable to EVE than STO. the basic game model of EVE is dramatically different to STO. you could even say that EVE is the direct opposite to STO in nearly every aspect of a game.
even if SWTOR is released, i doubt you may compare it to EVE. i strongly hope, SWTOR will be much better than STO, but as far as we know it will be more a new-fashioned game and not an old-style virtual world like EVE.
EVE would be a perfect game, if you add planets with Avatars and a couple of mobs (something like Entropia, perhaps better). then adjust the crafting system simply to let players colonise the planets with all the buildings and features a planet needs. implement mechanics to conquer planets, colonise them and defend them. ant the players will satrt their big show, dont worry.
to make STO a virtual world instead of a muliplayer HUB, you have to rewrite it. no chance for a real evolution.
you could also say, that this is the battle of the most sandbox-style-game against one of the most theme-park-style-games. if you like sandbox games, no theme park could ever beat it.
whats good in a theme park, is not existent or fully different (opposite) in a sandbox game and sandbox-fans love it this way. you either love sandbox or you hate it and vice versa. however, STO got some more issues, to not fall in love with it, even as a theme-park-fan.
Yeah I agree with this one hands down and I have never played EVE. I unfortunately did get suckered and dropped the cash to get the lifetime on STO. So here I sit waiting for STO to hopefuly get it's version of an NGE and not have it make it worse, not that I think that is an impossible feat but to me it has the odds of something like winning every lottery in the world at the same time 3 times in a row. So as I sit and wait for someone over there at cryptic to get a clue about STO I will continue to at least keep the game on my pc and give it it's weekly weak activity of opening the launcher entering my password letting it update and then shut it down. You know most people say crap is crap and I agree , but if you let crap bake out in your yard long enough and let mother nature take her coarse it will 1) become part of your lawn. or 2) become as hard as a rock in the center of a lush green patch of grass that when ran over by your lawn mower and gets shot out at over 200mph and busts your jerk neighbors window when they arent home.
I for one am hoping for number two so I can at least get some morbid sence of entertainment out of this game.
It's apples and oranges, but if you compare these games, of course EVE should win by a wide margin. However, to call EVE's solo play "adequate" is far too generous. Besides, is EVE's real-time skill acquisition just a reward for paying the subscription fee?
Comments
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Send a reviewer that doesnt like "Space games" to write an article about "Space games", and I guess this is what you're gonna get...
They're both science fiction games, they both have space, they both take place in the future, they both have FTL travel, they both have wormholes, they both have spaceships, etc. etc.
For all intents and purposes they are both in competition with each other. While this match up wasn't exactly fair, (after all one was a rushed out the door profit-mongering piece of garbage, the other was made with careful talant, skill and love for their work) it is still a perfectly valid match up.
You can't say "they're both different types of games!" (i.e. sandbox and themepark) because they are both MMOs (one on a truly massive scale, the other barely an MMO at all,) and they are both video games. It's like you're saying "you can't compare Evl Dead 2 with The Shining! They're completely different types of films!" Well, yeah, both are different, but both are similer enough to warrant comparison.
Comparing the two was right because in essence they are a lot alike. But EVE wins, hands down, across the board on all counts when it comes to science fiction simulation space operas. Even though Star Trek has a great history and rich lore, translating it into a great game was too big a task for Cryptic.
Would Star Trek translate into an EVE online type of format well? I think so.
Both of these games get roflstomped by Xwing Vs tiefighter. Why don't they make that into a MMO. You can have a EVE esque economy/community, with multiroll spaceships in a space plane that actually has no "Right side up" feelin.
Both of these games fail in that they have a sense of up and down. Like in EVE if you are warping in you might be warping "Downward" and you will only be able to pan around your ship based on the normal format similar to when you are flying at an even level.
LOL, you will be lucky to see SWTOR released in a year.
If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25 cars that got 1000 MPG - Bill Gates
Weird, I actually play EVE because I see it as not being a grind. I mean come on, I train skills when I'm not playing. How is that a grind?
If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25 cars that got 1000 MPG - Bill Gates
Sorry, I have to step in here. Grinding L1's to L2's then L3's for standing to L4's? Grinding plexes? Grinding W-space combat sites? Mining: grinding ore? Grinding rats? Damn, even gatecamps are a grind when you think of it.
The good thing about EVE is that you don't feel it as much.
Great game.
No they are perfect comparisons. The critera isnt that they are "the same but which is better".
This is a comparison of -
Sandbox -vs- Themepark
Openended gameplay -vs- Structured gameplay
No endgame -vs- Endgame
Complex space combat -vs- Lite space combat
No avatar play -vs- Avatar play
Original IP -vs- Pre-existing IP
And sadly and maybe what is tipping the scales so badly -
Commitment to excellence -vs- Commitment to ...
Personally I think the article was dead on. But more for what is wrong with STO than what is right about EVE.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
I don't particularly like EVE, but I completely agree with the article. STO is little more than Champions Online with a Star Trek skin.
so you compared a theme park to a sandbox?
article fail 1
you showed clear bias to digging sandbox games over theme park games.
article fail 2
i could go on and on but ill just leave at this.
Jon Wood, I know the site has to generate traffic based on "volunteer" articles. I get that. But given how many mmorpg fans there are, this is the best you guys can come up with these days?
/facepalm
Games i'm playing right now...
"In short, I thought NGE was a very bad idea" - Raph Koster talking about NGE on his blog at raphkoster.com
If it was published on some non-gaming magazine, I wouldn't mind and moved on with reading but considering it is not...it makes the author look quite ignorant and foolish.
Just because two games are space themed does not make them stand against each other.
Actually a potato would win. Afterall can you imagine him peeling it with his Forceblade!!!
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
I tried EVE. There were alot of things I liked about it (focus on developing skills, crafting & economy, community drama, large areas that are fought over, etc) but it just wasn't my style.
That being said, comparing EVE to STO is an insult to EVE. EVE has been out longer and has actually received quite a bit of TLC and a loyal following. It has far more depth than the dried, summertime sidewalk puddle of water that is STO.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I loved those games when they came out. Why dont you do what CCP did and go independent and make your own?
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Err yea you are confirming what the article said about the singleplayer experience.....which is a boring grind.
Anyway a terrable 1v1 article overall.
Just the fact it is less than a year old invalidates this topic. it would be better to compare STO with EvE when it was 6 months old. Or you could compare eve with another spaceship based MMO like say.........Oh yea!
Is it not sad that EvE is best because there is nothing else to compete!!!!
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
I am not sure this was a good choice for fighting talk; these two games are so different in concept. You would have been better off doing EvE versus Darkfall or STO versus CO. The idea that they are a good FT subject because they are both space MMO’s is unrealistic. If you are going to base these articles on theme you should be comparing story and background, the feel of the game. FT articles concentrate on gameplay, for that you need to be comparing similar MMO’s.
i played them both and i must say that the spacecombat of STO is fun and tactical..to see ships turning and you anticipating how to turn your ship so you have the uptimal shield and weapons pointing at them is really well done.
Spacecombat in EVE is kinda like looking at a radarscreen..its just not so interesting as in STO
ground combat in STO is kinda boring, but none existant in EVE.
Groupplay is almost none existant in STO, but in the end..so is EVE..YES..there are corps..and they mine or fight, but its not like everyday like the groupfighting in WOW..i was just as much alone in EVE as i was in STO.
so for me the scores are not so dark for STO and kinda darker for EVE
If you had a game with the spacecombat of STO with all the possibilities of weapons and tech of EVE...then i would live in that game..
game on.
apples vs. oranges. nuff said ....
you cant compare these 2 games. you better would compare EVE with Fallen Earth or even Uncharted Waters Online. there are some non-scifi games more comparable to EVE than STO. the basic game model of EVE is dramatically different to STO. you could even say that EVE is the direct opposite to STO in nearly every aspect of a game.
even if SWTOR is released, i doubt you may compare it to EVE. i strongly hope, SWTOR will be much better than STO, but as far as we know it will be more a new-fashioned game and not an old-style virtual world like EVE.
EVE would be a perfect game, if you add planets with Avatars and a couple of mobs (something like Entropia, perhaps better). then adjust the crafting system simply to let players colonise the planets with all the buildings and features a planet needs. implement mechanics to conquer planets, colonise them and defend them. ant the players will satrt their big show, dont worry.
to make STO a virtual world instead of a muliplayer HUB, you have to rewrite it. no chance for a real evolution.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
you could also say, that this is the battle of the most sandbox-style-game against one of the most theme-park-style-games. if you like sandbox games, no theme park could ever beat it.
whats good in a theme park, is not existent or fully different (opposite) in a sandbox game and sandbox-fans love it this way. you either love sandbox or you hate it and vice versa. however, STO got some more issues, to not fall in love with it, even as a theme-park-fan.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
Yeah I agree with this one hands down and I have never played EVE. I unfortunately did get suckered and dropped the cash to get the lifetime on STO. So here I sit waiting for STO to hopefuly get it's version of an NGE and not have it make it worse, not that I think that is an impossible feat but to me it has the odds of something like winning every lottery in the world at the same time 3 times in a row. So as I sit and wait for someone over there at cryptic to get a clue about STO I will continue to at least keep the game on my pc and give it it's weekly weak activity of opening the launcher entering my password letting it update and then shut it down. You know most people say crap is crap and I agree , but if you let crap bake out in your yard long enough and let mother nature take her coarse it will 1) become part of your lawn. or 2) become as hard as a rock in the center of a lush green patch of grass that when ran over by your lawn mower and gets shot out at over 200mph and busts your jerk neighbors window when they arent home.
I for one am hoping for number two so I can at least get some morbid sence of entertainment out of this game.
It's apples and oranges, but if you compare these games, of course EVE should win by a wide margin. However, to call EVE's solo play "adequate" is far too generous. Besides, is EVE's real-time skill acquisition just a reward for paying the subscription fee?
I commend you for having your 5 year old having "fun." Hey, what the hell,
right?
Fun Is Fun and he is most likely one of the Future Gamers. Fun can't hurt, after all,
Maxximus
-- The Maxx
Ooooh... I'm shaking in my Clan and Gold...
Maxximus
-- The Maxx