I'm sure someone has mentioned it, but one huge reason it's not fair...
EVE was released in 2003.
STO was released in 2010.
In 7 years, who knows how good or bad STO will be. It could have 10 races with unique ships and tons of planets to explore. 7 years of development time is a HUGE difference.
I think for what was compared the release dates of the games don't matter much if at all. Many of the problems that give STO low marks are based strictly off of design decisions and not a lack of development time, will they add more places to go in the game sure but if it is still designed like open space is now it will always compare unfavorably against EVE which actually feels like a vast expanse of space.
I think we all know older doesn't mean better even in mmorpgs Dark And Light is now an older game and is still worse than most anything released since it.
This. The majority of problems with STO have to do with the fundamental design of the game. It is literally built on the Champions Online game engine, which is why it has the exact same heavy instancing, grossly oversized proportions, and lack of mission depth, among other issues. The Champions Online engine is simply not built for the kind of massive universe exploration that defines the Star Trek IP. What the game needs isn't more development time; it needs a significant overhaul of the game architecture.
People would have said the exact same thing about eve 7 years ago. "This game has fundamental design flaws." Actually, a lot of people used those words exactly and often.
I see, there is no need for any Ali or Tyson vs. "insert tomato can here" references as it appears I've already been beaten to the punch (pun intended).
Yeah I agree with this one hands down and I have never played EVE. I unfortunately did get suckered and dropped the cash to get the lifetime on STO. So here I sit waiting for STO to hopefuly get it's version of an NGE
EVE is garbage because of one fundamental and fatal flaw: the developers have sticky fingers and cheat. No amount of bling or features can compensate for players paying to play a rigged game for the amusement of the developers. It's no true sandbox when you can find yourself on the opposite team from the developers and their buddies and they set up or "rig" your side to take the fall for their jollies.
Endgame in EVE is a joke. Sorry but I don't call being a faceless cog in some alliance an endgame, when all they're really doing is doing the same thing street gangs do: an endless largeley pointless fight for turf.
CSM was made to counter that dev cheating, it's worked far beyond it's orginal purpose imo. Not to mention the first part of the comment is about something that is years old and the alliance that was part of it is no more.
Now the second part of your comment, your point? " an endless largeley pointless fight for turf. " Can be said about any game. "Just endless shooting stuff for kills."
It's your problem you have a problem being part of something greater then yourself.
Also, Eve Online versus Star Trek Online- is it a fair comparison? I am going to say yes, as both share a common genre element. Sure, it's sand box versus theme park but on the general idea that these are the foremost representations of Space MMORPGs, I think it fair to consider these worthy of the comparison.
lol.... no it isn't a fair comparison. Not just because it's sandbox vs. themepark though. The reason it isn't a fair comparison is that this just aren't 2 balanced opponents. There was never any question on anyones minds who would be the victor, even the STO fans know that EvE is light years beyond what STO could ever hope to be. You compared basically a name brand item to an off brand item thats been recalled and asked which is better. You just took something that everyone else already knows, wrote up an article on it and said "in your opinion".
I mean come on, you have to see how the article is akin to things as asinine as what I'm writing below.
"In my opinion the world is round, here is an article of mine discussing both theories written in 2010"
"In my opinion Mike Tyson could knock out your average 10 year old boy if they were to fight him, here is why"
"In my opinion I think diet and exercise is better than taking fen-phen"
lol...
Yes , but whose fault is that ? Cryptic launched the game with full knowledge that it wasn't ready . Once they entered the market the gloves were off , putting it mildly , they exposed themselves to criticing and comparison . To say it's not fair is childish and immature. Cryptic bears the responsiblity for releasing a half-assed product in a genre that contains a tough competition and will get tougher with time. Someone needs a nappy , I think.
lol, well I hate to burst your bubble but I'm not saying it's not a fair comparison because I like STO or think it should get a fair shake.
I said it wasn't a fair comparison to show my disinterest in the subject. Also it was part of the whole, stating something thats common knowledge and saying in my opinion is a bit asinine lol.
STO was bad, still is, everyone already knows it. It's been weighed and measured already and the results are in, it sucks. So ... the author of the article took something thats been bashed and slammed just about everywhere and known to be a shoddy inferior product, put it in a vs. type article against an award winning MMO, thats been one of the few MMO's to see a steady increase in it's subs and never the large dip most MMO's suffer.
Do you see my issue yet, or do I need to break it down even more for you?
Hope this was simple enough for you to grasp this time around
And it's ok if you need a nappy but theres no need to inform us about it.
I'm sure someone has mentioned it, but one huge reason it's not fair...
EVE was released in 2003.
STO was released in 2010.
In 7 years, who knows how good or bad STO will be. It could have 10 races with unique ships and tons of planets to explore. 7 years of development time is a HUGE difference.
I think for what was compared the release dates of the games don't matter much if at all. Many of the problems that give STO low marks are based strictly off of design decisions and not a lack of development time, will they add more places to go in the game sure but if it is still designed like open space is now it will always compare unfavorably against EVE which actually feels like a vast expanse of space.
I think we all know older doesn't mean better even in mmorpgs Dark And Light is now an older game and is still worse than most anything released since it.
This. The majority of problems with STO have to do with the fundamental design of the game. It is literally built on the Champions Online game engine, which is why it has the exact same heavy instancing, grossly oversized proportions, and lack of mission depth, among other issues. The Champions Online engine is simply not built for the kind of massive universe exploration that defines the Star Trek IP. What the game needs isn't more development time; it needs a significant overhaul of the game architecture.
People would have said the exact same thing about eve 7 years ago. "This game has fundamental design flaws." Actually, a lot of people used those words exactly and often.
True, but unless I'm mistaken, an open persistent world has been EVE's foundation all along. Seven years of development time hasn't changed that fact. STO, on the other hand, is literally Champions Online with a Star Trek skin. That's about as far from an open persistent world as you can get in an MMO.
I'm sure someone has mentioned it, but one huge reason it's not fair...
EVE was released in 2003.
STO was released in 2010.
In 7 years, who knows how good or bad STO will be. It could have 10 races with unique ships and tons of planets to explore. 7 years of development time is a HUGE difference.
agreed 100% with this, as someone who has played both games and is currently logged into STO as I type.
I'm sure someone has mentioned it, but one huge reason it's not fair...
EVE was released in 2003.
STO was released in 2010.
In 7 years, who knows how good or bad STO will be. It could have 10 races with unique ships and tons of planets to explore. 7 years of development time is a HUGE difference.
You think STO is going to make 7 years, 7 years full of developments and upgrades?
absolutely. SWG was ruined by SOE and is still running. STO has tons of potential with dstahl at the helm, but it needs some serious work in these Seasons (major content upgrades/patches) to come.
Wo wo wo. I got to the start of your article and had to stop reading to post this.
Star Trek Online is NOT Gene Roddenberry's creation and if Gene is returned to us one day he will be very unhappy with Cryptic forcing the "perfect circle" shape of Star Trek into their "square hole" of a game that is severely lacking.
Star Trek has been free of Gene's vision from quite some time now. It was nice, but very unrealistic.
Because the writer of the article is judging both games as if they were released at the same time. Instead of one that has been established with a committed following and another that has just barely learned to walk.
I am going to be honest with you dear readers, I have never been that fond of space. I mean it's OK, up there above the sky, all black and starry, and just think, without it millions would be left without wonderful desktop background images. The truth is that I have never really been into space ships, astronauts and sexy Jim Kirk adventures
Sir, how can the very place in which you exist not be interesting to you?
EVE is garbage because of one fundamental and fatal flaw: the developers have sticky fingers and cheat. No amount of bling or features can compensate for players paying to play a rigged game for the amusement of the developers. It's no true sandbox when you can find yourself on the opposite team from the developers and their buddies and they set up or "rig" your side to take the fall for their jollies.
Endgame in EVE is a joke. Sorry but I don't call being a faceless cog in some alliance an endgame, when all they're really doing is doing the same thing street gangs do: an endless largeley pointless fight for turf.
CSM was made to counter that dev cheating, it's worked far beyond it's orginal purpose imo. Not to mention the first part of the comment is about something that is years old and the alliance that was part of it is no more.
Now the second part of your comment, your point? " an endless largeley pointless fight for turf. " Can be said about any game. "Just endless shooting stuff for kills."
It's your problem you have a problem being part of something greater then yourself.
The CSM is a marketing gimmick nothing more. I know of cheating that occurred after its formation. All the CSM and "Internal Affairs" serve is an official way to deny anything and say "We're innocent because our guys say we are." The only reason they came out to admit the t20 cheating incident was because the evidence was too widely known. For other smaller incidents, they have been doing a policy of deny everything and admit nothing, and banning the whistleblower. I know because there are incidents where ingame evidence and contact from players involved show that CCP was guilty. It's just that people seem to not accept CCP can be guilty unless they admit it themselves. It's like asking the criminal to tell the court whether they are guilty or innocent. Of course the criminal has every incentive to say they are innocent.
The cheating is entirely relevant because those are real paying players that were affected when the devs take sides and cheat. To add insult to injury, they were caught red handed trying to cover up. Just because it was a while ago doesn't make it irrelevant for those that were affected or those that decided to quit.
The cheating and covering up is still going on even now:
Another player's experience of the cover ups and corruption by the company. It appears that nothing has changed over the years. It is still the same cover up, ban the whistleblower, and then make a statement saying "Nothing happened. We didn't cheat. You saw nothing. Move along."
Pointless turf wars that serve no purpose, no story purpose, are a problem because it replicates the problem of endgame boredom seen in other games when resources and gear is plentiful. Don't try and blame the players for a flaw within the game. The turf wars only exist in order to fight further turf wars or for pointless bragging rights. In reality, wars are fought for greater reasons than just for laughs, which is what the 0.0 wars essentially boil down to. However there are no higher goals, no storyline that matters (the events are rigged), and so it is a grind in disguise: fight for turf so you can fight for turf, rinse repeat ad nauseum
EVE is garbage because of one fundamental and fatal flaw: the developers have sticky fingers and cheat. No amount of bling or features can compensate for players paying to play a rigged game for the amusement of the developers. It's no true sandbox when you can find yourself on the opposite team from the developers and their buddies and they set up or "rig" your side to take the fall for their jollies.
Endgame in EVE is a joke. Sorry but I don't call being a faceless cog in some alliance an endgame, when all they're really doing is doing the same thing street gangs do: an endless largeley pointless fight for turf.
CSM was made to counter that dev cheating, it's worked far beyond it's orginal purpose imo. Not to mention the first part of the comment is about something that is years old and the alliance that was part of it is no more.
Now the second part of your comment, your point? " an endless largeley pointless fight for turf. " Can be said about any game. "Just endless shooting stuff for kills."
It's your problem you have a problem being part of something greater then yourself.
The CSM is a marketing gimmick nothing more. I know of cheating that occurred after its formation. All the CSM and "Internal Affairs" serve is an official way to deny anything and say "We're innocent because our guys say we are." The only reason they came out to admit the t20 cheating incident was because the evidence was too widely known. For other smaller incidents, they have been doing a policy of deny everything and admit nothing, and banning the whistleblower. I know because there are incidents where ingame evidence and contact from players involved show that CCP was guilty. It's just that people seem to not accept CCP can be guilty unless they admit it themselves. It's like asking the criminal to tell the court whether they are guilty or innocent. Of course the criminal has every incentive to say they are innocent.
The cheating is entirely relevant because those are real paying players that were affected when the devs take sides and cheat. To add insult to injury, they were caught red handed trying to cover up. Just because it was a while ago doesn't make it irrelevant for those that were affected or those that decided to quit.
The cheating and covering up is still going on even now:
Another player's experience of the cover ups and corruption by the company. It appears that nothing has changed over the years. It is still the same cover up, ban the whistleblower, and then make a statement saying "Nothing happened. We didn't cheat. You saw nothing. Move along."
Pointless turf wars that serve no purpose, no story purpose, are a problem because it replicates the problem of endgame boredom seen in other games when resources and gear is plentiful. Don't try and blame the players for a flaw within the game. The turf wars only exist in order to fight further turf wars or for pointless bragging rights. In reality, wars are fought for greater reasons than just for laughs, which is what the 0.0 wars essentially boil down to. However there are no higher goals, no storyline that matters (the events are rigged), and so it is a grind in disguise: fight for turf so you can fight for turf, rinse repeat ad nauseum
So I followed your link and you make an allegation about some kind of coverup, and you tried to raise this with the CSM, and your character got banned.
Now you say you cant publish the information because of the EULA. How can the EULA apply to you if you've already been banned? That's all that CCP can do to you, and they've already done it.
Did you accidentally miss out the part where you got unbanned ? How did you get unbanned? Did you escalate the matter to IA?
Incidentally, your blogger comes across as almost insanely bitter. I mean like Area-51, Birther, Truther, New World Order obsessed crazy bitter. I'm not really in a position to judge the facts of the case, largely because there are none provided, only increasingly wild rhetoric along the lines of "I dont trust CCP therefore they're untrustworthy therefore everything they say is a lie which therefore proves I shouldn't trust them!", but the fact is the author of that blog is bat-shit insane, and should seriously, seriously step away from MMOs in general and everything to do with EVE in particular.
Comments
People would have said the exact same thing about eve 7 years ago. "This game has fundamental design flaws." Actually, a lot of people used those words exactly and often.
Right! Today counts.
I am so tired of released games that should be still in development state.
And I am tired of games that are just to simple to be more than some weeks to "endgame".
I do not like to fight children. There has to be more than a competition who hits the button faster or has almost unlimited time to play and improve.
Thats why I play EVE... brain counts.
Pointless article. Its like making World of Warcraft vs Alganon fighting thread
I see, there is no need for any Ali or Tyson vs. "insert tomato can here" references as it appears I've already been beaten to the punch (pun intended).
Your fail comment, failed.
So you want STO to die then.
CSM was made to counter that dev cheating, it's worked far beyond it's orginal purpose imo. Not to mention the first part of the comment is about something that is years old and the alliance that was part of it is no more.
Now the second part of your comment, your point? " an endless largeley pointless fight for turf. " Can be said about any game. "Just endless shooting stuff for kills."
It's your problem you have a problem being part of something greater then yourself.
lol, well I hate to burst your bubble but I'm not saying it's not a fair comparison because I like STO or think it should get a fair shake.
I said it wasn't a fair comparison to show my disinterest in the subject. Also it was part of the whole, stating something thats common knowledge and saying in my opinion is a bit asinine lol.
STO was bad, still is, everyone already knows it. It's been weighed and measured already and the results are in, it sucks. So ... the author of the article took something thats been bashed and slammed just about everywhere and known to be a shoddy inferior product, put it in a vs. type article against an award winning MMO, thats been one of the few MMO's to see a steady increase in it's subs and never the large dip most MMO's suffer.
Do you see my issue yet, or do I need to break it down even more for you?
Hope this was simple enough for you to grasp this time around
And it's ok if you need a nappy but theres no need to inform us about it.
Just give me EVE Online with a more active combat system similar to STO's and I'll be happy.
dis be funny shits..... ones an mmorts/ and the others just shit....
Yeah I have, and I'm not a particular fan of the game. But the fact that EVE also has grinding doesn't make STO a better game.
True, but unless I'm mistaken, an open persistent world has been EVE's foundation all along. Seven years of development time hasn't changed that fact. STO, on the other hand, is literally Champions Online with a Star Trek skin. That's about as far from an open persistent world as you can get in an MMO.
onto the next matchup, mike tyson vs steven hawking
agreed 100% with this, as someone who has played both games and is currently logged into STO as I type.
absolutely. SWG was ruined by SOE and is still running. STO has tons of potential with dstahl at the helm, but it needs some serious work in these Seasons (major content upgrades/patches) to come.
Star Trek has been free of Gene's vision from quite some time now. It was nice, but very unrealistic.
lol I can pull things out of my ass too
MMORPG.com articles are 99% crap! (this article very much included!)
Stating my opinion that the vast majority of Trek fandom is crap is pulling things out of my ass?
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
Because the writer of the article is judging both games as if they were released at the same time. Instead of one that has been established with a committed following and another that has just barely learned to walk.
I agree completely. While I myself don't like EVE Online, I have to admit it's a great game.
While I love Star Trek, I have to admit Cryptic butchered/blundered and cheated everyone they came in contact with.
Sir, how can the very place in which you exist not be interesting to you?
The CSM is a marketing gimmick nothing more. I know of cheating that occurred after its formation. All the CSM and "Internal Affairs" serve is an official way to deny anything and say "We're innocent because our guys say we are." The only reason they came out to admit the t20 cheating incident was because the evidence was too widely known. For other smaller incidents, they have been doing a policy of deny everything and admit nothing, and banning the whistleblower. I know because there are incidents where ingame evidence and contact from players involved show that CCP was guilty. It's just that people seem to not accept CCP can be guilty unless they admit it themselves. It's like asking the criminal to tell the court whether they are guilty or innocent. Of course the criminal has every incentive to say they are innocent.
The cheating is entirely relevant because those are real paying players that were affected when the devs take sides and cheat. To add insult to injury, they were caught red handed trying to cover up. Just because it was a while ago doesn't make it irrelevant for those that were affected or those that decided to quit.
The cheating and covering up is still going on even now:
http://nitpickins.com/2010/07/26/csm-scam-by-ccp-2/
Another player's experience of the cover ups and corruption by the company. It appears that nothing has changed over the years. It is still the same cover up, ban the whistleblower, and then make a statement saying "Nothing happened. We didn't cheat. You saw nothing. Move along."
Pointless turf wars that serve no purpose, no story purpose, are a problem because it replicates the problem of endgame boredom seen in other games when resources and gear is plentiful. Don't try and blame the players for a flaw within the game. The turf wars only exist in order to fight further turf wars or for pointless bragging rights. In reality, wars are fought for greater reasons than just for laughs, which is what the 0.0 wars essentially boil down to. However there are no higher goals, no storyline that matters (the events are rigged), and so it is a grind in disguise: fight for turf so you can fight for turf, rinse repeat ad nauseum
Just one thing to say, EvE Online all the way, even beats up WOW by far.........
It's My Way Or The Highway...
Actually while playing eve I have imagined it as star-trek making me care even more about my pilot than anything CCP made.
Ok time for Darkfall vs Mortal Online
So I followed your link and you make an allegation about some kind of coverup, and you tried to raise this with the CSM, and your character got banned.
Now you say you cant publish the information because of the EULA. How can the EULA apply to you if you've already been banned? That's all that CCP can do to you, and they've already done it.
Did you accidentally miss out the part where you got unbanned ? How did you get unbanned? Did you escalate the matter to IA?
Incidentally, your blogger comes across as almost insanely bitter. I mean like Area-51, Birther, Truther, New World Order obsessed crazy bitter. I'm not really in a position to judge the facts of the case, largely because there are none provided, only increasingly wild rhetoric along the lines of "I dont trust CCP therefore they're untrustworthy therefore everything they say is a lie which therefore proves I shouldn't trust them!", but the fact is the author of that blog is bat-shit insane, and should seriously, seriously step away from MMOs in general and everything to do with EVE in particular.
Give me liberty or give me lasers