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Friendly Fire
thark
Member UncommonPosts: 1,188
I know this is harch and easily exploitable in pick up groups etc but..
Woudn't it be great if they introduced friendly fire for the elite mode quests alternative a special experienced player mode where you had to agree that playing in this quests spells and such that do area damage will hurt your friends ...?
And I'm NOT talking about PvP 
And I mean ALL damage that goes on multiple targets, basically "friendly fire"
Friendly Fire is a term for when someone hits a friend or friends with a spell or sword or whatever unintentionally ..
/junker
Comments
Agreed. PVP in any game should have friendly fire by default.
EDIT:
Oh damn...Did I really write PVP? No, it is not PVP related but simply any game should have friendly fire!
Maybe in other games, but not DDO. Dungeons and Dragons was always about a group of heroes out to vanquish evil and right wrongs. The pvp aspect was thrown in for the people who just wanted to test their mettle against others. It is not anything near to real pvp. There are no rewards for it just to see whose build is better. Thus the arguement is useless.
You misunderstood me, not in a pvp way..Can't really see why you misunderstood it either as I said "hurt your friends" etc..
In a PvE only way, a setting to make the game more complex and harder..It would make it so you had to think twice when casting that fireball or placing that wall of fire so you would not hurt the fighters etc ..
PnP D&D had friendly fire or the DM was just plain lazy
Friendly Fire would improve every game and it doesn't need to involve pvp. It is just plain stupid as a fireball with the size of Hummer would not hit any of the heroes when the wizard throws it at the goblins which are toe to toe in melee combat with the other heroes.
This is what I'm talking about, has it ever been discussed ? There is many options in DDO to choose from so why not this one ?
As long as casters can be hit with swords, I play melee and it seems to me the OP plays a caster and just wants to grief.
Make it fair to melee or it doesn't happen, I am sick of melee getting screwed and casters having it to easy.
If you have any questions please ask. I have moved on to WoW from eq and no longer have any desire to play a dead game. Thank you. (posted by another selling his account in EQ1)
Ofcourse that would be "friendly fire" all over (swords spells etc)..So yes you would shop me to bits and piecses if i got to close to that sword..
Want to grief ? DId you actually read my post...Can't understand why everyone has a hard time understanding what I'm talking about !!
Look, I want this to be a optional thing for players that seeks a little extra challenge, and by that everyone who would join in on this difficulty setting will have to accept it , just like you do when choosing normal, hard and elite. Or they could just add it to the existing elite mode..
This mode would require a rather diffrent approch/tactic to the game and that is really what I would like to talk about here, but almost everyone that responds keeps misunderstanding me..
I see what you're saying.
Friendly fire rules definitely apply in p&p ruleset, but i can see why they left it out of the game.
Sure it would be an added element of danger and strategy. I get that, but ultimately it would just be a pain. The increase in tactics would pale in comparison to the infighting, confusion, and general anger it would cause. plus adding yet another hazard for tanks would be disastrous
If they did, Bow Specialist Rangers and Magic Users would probably not be able to do elite dungeons. Not effectively, anyway. Thus, they would be shunned by groups.
I too like that in the PnP game, but in PnP, you have more time to move and take more careful shots. In DDO, you don't really have that. Then, there's auto-attack...
I am going to list so reasons I am against Friendly fire in DDO especially.
1. More lag. More damage calculations and collision detections make DDO even laggier then it has been before. Friendly fire would cause more lag.
2. Way too easy to grief in a game that already lags too much. With FF people could intentionally kill you and also lag could kill you. Too many ways to die that are unneeded. Yes FF would be more realistic, but then video games are rarely about realism. If they were then you could cut down the number of monsters you fight to make the fact your arm would fall off from swinging your sword so much a reality. Also all magic needs to go away since in reality none of us can make fireballs from nothing.
3. The game as it is designed would need to be completely remade in order to work this in. Think about the game and its over dependance on melee damage for the most part. Now remove that so wizards get to play because the way the game is now would never work with FF. No more melee blocking choke points, no more casting on a mob that is already aggroed on anyone else. Sorcs and wizards would become buff bots or soloists as they would never get invites to parties for damage since the current game does nothing to allow them to operate that way in a group now.
4. Turbine would never do it. Hell they recently made enemy spells and ours different colors so no one accidently walked into an enemies firewall or blade barrier, the last thing Turbine is going to do is add challenge and death back into DDO. FF should have been in game from day one, but if it had I am willing to bet DDO never would have lived as long as it did. Old DDO was too hard for almost everyone and DDO was failing until last year. Adding FF even on elite will never happen.
The tactics would be a change, but I do not see all the work it would take from a development standpoint being worth the time. The amount of people opting in would likely be minimal. The griefing number would be high and in a F2P game that has started attracting the element that enjoys griefing, it would be a disaster.
Turbine would have to redesign almost all the mobs and how they react. They would have to recalculate all mob hit points and a bunch of other changes would be needed to make such a game playable. FF by itself added to the current game would ruin elite mode.
Thanks for the diffrent replys..
I see a few of you that thinks this would destroy the game for various reasons, and the only point where i'm not really clear about the outcome IMO is the lag point..
1 GRIEFING Sure , this could happen but it can happen already in the current game we have, it's easy to be a jerk ..But as in the current game , it still would be as easy to dissmiss a jerky player..
2 Dont destroy THE ELITE MODE ..It doesnt have to be the "current elite mode" it can just be a click to activate it , if everyone is "ok" with that or a mode separated from the current, call it "experienced player mode"..
3 The current DDO players wants it EASY. Well Im certain that a large chunk of players wants it easy, but this will NOT destroy that for them in any sence..Since all options currently available will still be in the game.
And for the last point, I do not think they would have to redraw anything regarding the monsters or spells, If you play in this mode , you would have to carefully rethink your strategies and spells you cast..It would also make weaker spells that no one is using useful again..
I cant understand why you, it's players are afraid of some changes that WILL without a doubt make this game last longer for the entire community.. And Turbine added epic mode..So I absolutly see no reason they could add this just aswell..
The problem that Turbine had with DDO in the beginning and I think they still have, is that DDO is so diffrent from the rest of the MMOs, all new players that enters this game compares it to most MMO's out there, and it takes far more gametime than the new tutorial island to discover what DDO is all about . Ill go óut and say it, DDO is not a MMO in the standard way we have been grown used to, yet this is what it always WILL be compared against. I have had a few friends that started playing and instantly they started to compare it with the beast.
I do not belive in the teori that DDO was to HARD, I think the problem has always been the above and maybe that if you didnt have enough friends it was HARD to find a group as that was far more mandatory in the beginning than it is now.
But when you reach the peak where you actually understands what DDO is all about , you would want new challenges ..And this mode can give you that..
I think you are missing my main point. As DDO is currently developed your idea would never work. MOBs have way too many HP to allow for friendly fire. Right now in DDO in order for a caster to kill you have to kite, with FF on that means no melee is going to help you as you kite since they are likely to die from any spell you cast. So casters will go solo or not be invited to groups. No one wants to take a 1500hp fireball to the face. It will not add tactics it will actually reduce tactics to nothing because melee will not be able to close in to fight if you are casting, this reduces available tactics to nothing.
Also it will increase griefing by a ton. Right now if you have a jerk what can you do? NOTHING while you ae in a dungeon. Right now that means very little though, with FF on if that jerk is the caster he can wipe the party with ease. You can dismiss a jerk in the dungeon with FF that means he gets to kill before he can get the boot or you all have to leave. Griefing is much worse with FF then without it.
DDO used to have a challenge to the game, Turbine has reduced that over time to make it easier, this is no theory this is fact. If you played since release you know this.
DDO is not an MMO really. It lacks so many things that make a game great. It has great parts, but DDO is half an MMO at best really.
You know that you do not have to use that fireball all the time , right ?
And spells that are directed towards 1 target ..they will not hit your warrior
And If you kite with your Wizard, chanses are that you actually have drawn to much attention towards yourself(aggro)
Ok let me try the blunt response. This idea is terrible for DDO. The game is not built to support such gamepley and thinking it would take no changes to implement is naive at best. I also fail to see how FF would in any way add life to the game. I think FF is a terrible idea unless ways to properly police griefing are in place. Planetside had FF they also had a way to keep griefing down. Without a way to keep griefing down I promise you it will be a problem.
Why would a spell at one target not hit my warrior? Think ray spells or magic missle will they magically go through the fighter to hit the target? NOPE. So now forget AOE even direct spells like rays will have FF. Blade barrier and fire wall all will be useless. Your idea limits spell choices to buffs. FF will not be a problem because no one will take casters for any reason other then buffs with FF on in a game like DDO.
The reason I said kite with the wizard is no fighter is going to use intim to pull aggro so he can then take a spell from the wizard for being too close to the target. Instead of adding tactics your gameplay idea reduces them to nothing. Think about it more and I am sure you will see your idea is much more limiting on gameplay.
Why are you constantly pointing out the griefing aspect all the time..The idea is based on a optional level of difficulty , just like we already have in DDO..
And if someone is griefing or just a pain..kick him from the group..just like you already do..
And ..Lets now just agree that we disagree..and end this argument..
I wanted to discuss this because I know there is alot of folks that would want this, you do not like it..and thats fine by me..
/junker
I see your idea, and I think it would surely add some spice to the level 20 crowd. I think, if like you said it was a button choice, like clicking hardcore in diablo 2 use to be. Why not. As for lag, I've never yet experencied too much lag anywhere in DDO except the Wayward Lobster where every tom dick and harry seem to think the only brawling area is. I sometimes wonder if they know other taverns have brawling pits too :P
I can't see you needing to change any aspect of the game. I think the orgininal poster would like the mobs and dungoens all left as is and jsut add the aspect that you could hurt your freinds if you are not careful. To keep using the fireball and firewall argument i would say how about that cleave that just dealt x ammount of damage to the rogue as he/she was moving for a sneak attack. Not everything is the caster's fault. Casters can stick to magic missles, acid arrows and rays don't need to be droping hail storms and tossing firewalls around.
So I would agree it sounds like a fun idea. while they are at it, Why not add the True Death button to the character creation so those that like to play that way will have their toon deleted upon death, If someone isn't around to revive that is.
my 2 coppers
I bring up griefing because it would surely happen and you can not just boot him in a dungeon, you have to leave and start over. You are missing that very important part. Griefing will happen with your idea and I bet a lot of people do not want it.
You are also over simplifying that it would just be an optional level of difficulty. The game as it is designed today would SUCK with FF. To make it work would require a lot of effort likely not worth it since so few would opt to use it. Ignoring this is naive and silly. Assuming the game as it is today would work on elite with FF makes me wonder if you even play past level 10.
Acid arrow, magic missle and rays could all hit your teammates too. FF in a game like DDO would be a mistake. The added collisions would add lag, if you never experienced lag you never ran the Shroud yet. There is no computer in the world that can avoid the lag DDO has had there at times. FF would reduce casters to buff bots and would be the least popular option in DDO history.
No DPS actually uses cleave anyway. It slows down your attack, lowering DPS.
We all play diffrently and the experience with this game is diffrent for each of us
I like to play for the challenge this game actually gives, even without friendly fire
, I think that this is one of the best PvE experiences there is , and that DDO is rather unique.
I play with a selected few friends. I always play with these friends much like a coop game . With that in mind I will never end up in a situation where grief is going to happen.
And from what I hear you end up in these situations in the current DDO setting on a daily basis even without this setting I'm talking about, there is alot of jerks around. And I guess that is not going to change with DDO any time soon as it has gone F2P.
This idea i have is in no way perfect, It may have to be tweaked or altered ..Maybe the idea could only work with area spells/skills etc.. But YOU have to alter your playstyle for it to work, rethink your strategies. Use lower level spells , crowdcontol more. If you do that I'm rather confident or certain that it would work with minimal effort from Turbine.
I do not buy into the claims that this idea would not be popular, maybe not popular for a certain type of players , but I'm certain that there is a large following for extra difficulty settings ..Just look at Left 4 Dead realistic mode or Diablos Permadeath setting.
And again I'm certain that the many permadeth guilds in DDO is playing this game for the extra challenge this mode gives, and as someone posted already, why not add that option aswell..
And to those that do not like it, well you do not have to play it , it's really as simple as that..:)
To add, DDO for me is NOT an MMO, It simply never can be a standard MMO experience, just look at all these MMO's where a trap means that you take 2 damage for a couple of seconds , there isnt even traps in MMO's like DDO has. In DDO on hard and playing within the target levels, well it can be a great challenge, a challenge that does not exist in any other MMO out there, but that depends greatly on the players.
To rush inside spraying firewalls left and right and all sorts of power tricks makes most dungeons rather easy, and I can't see that this was Turbine's vision about this game, infact I'm rather certain it isn't..
yeah, its definitely a different game.
2 things that they could changed that would have made it the end-all mmo for me. Dungeons randomized, and an actual world to explore. otherwise its a great game in small spurts.
Sorry that was off topic, just wanted to say it
Damn straight. I'm LONG past sick and tired of the casters rule mentality that I see in too many games. The idea of "friendly fire" doesn't really belong in the general game. If people want to turn it on for their next run, thats up to them. But leave that for people who are looking for a "challenge".
I used to judge at the dnd open back in the 70s and 80s at gencon. That was the official tsr dnd open. Well, friendly fire was part of the game. Casting a fireball in a 10 by 10 hallway takes up 33 of those squares and everyone takes damage. That is the official rules of dnd and adnd 1st ed.
Friendly fire and PnP D&D were the reasons that magic missile was such a great spell for a period of time...especially for multiple targets. Then when your allies were clear...cone of cold/fireball/lightning/flamestrike. Friendly fire should be in most video games save the uber kiddie oriented ones.
Yes FF works great in a pen and paper enviroment. It fails in the world of online gaming due to many issues. Most of them lag oriented and computer calculation times. If DDO was real time strategy based FF might actually work, but FF in a hack and slash MMO just does not work. Could you build a great D&D game online with FF? I am sure it could be done. Is DDO the game for that? Nope. But you could build a better game then DDO and include FF. You just need ays to police it. Griefing is a past time for a lot of social misfits.