Its because new MMOs are themepark WoW clones. Or they release in a shitty state. Or they think sandbox=PvP?
SWG (before SOE ruined it)...was freakin awesome. AMAZING PvE and good PvP too, but I didn't do much PvP in SWG
Ryzom is awesome, would be better if it had more people and the jump ability and its the best PvE sandbox MMO out.
EVE is the only good modern MMO out, but its too PvP focused.
Ultima Online is amazing, but getting on in years
Asheron's Call was amazing, but I can't get into it now.
See what all those MMOs have/had in common? They are WORLDS and they actually felt like a living breathing world, not consolized singleplayer themepark MMOs
There is Darkfall and Mortal Online too. I know I'll be flamed if I don't include those. Honestly, I'm glad those two were made...but I'm just not a PvP person.
You mean Everquest clones.
That is a joke post right?
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I've been playing mmos damn near forever. I was like many of these guys that lived and died by oldschool/ sandbox mmos. I would be so pissed off that noone could make a solid game besides CCP. Then one day I stopped caring. I accepted what mmos have turn into. Mmos no longer cater to the simulation crowd, they cater to the casual, solo friendly, dungeon finder, instanced pvp arena crowd. I decided to go with the flow because I was simply fighting a losing battle. I now play mmos for what they are RPGs with other players doing ther own thing within the same game map. Honeslty I'm having a better time now.
It's not about EverQuest, I don't want to play EverQuest. But I want to see something that at least implements most of the features that EverQuest had (and get rid of all its problems). Since the features that we had in EverQuest are long gone, we long for a game like it.
Just because many people think that the MMOs have evolved in a bad way in the last few years doesn't mean they hate MMOs.
It is kinda like someone who love Bruce Springsteens old albums but doesn't think the new ones is as good, he is still a Springsteen fan.
I myself think that all games that have released for the last 5 years either are extremely similar or are a badly coded mess. Tat doesn't mean that all the similar games suck but what does suck is the fact that I have very little choice.
With pen and paper RPG there are many and very different choices, I can play D&D, Vampire, Runequest, Warhammer, Amber, Call of Cthulu or a whole other bunch of different systems with their own unique touch.
With MMOs I can either play a clone of D&D or Eve (not counting a few indie games that in some cases have good ideas but are sadly coded and buggy). Where is my choice today?
In the old days you choose between Everquest, Ultima Online or Meridian 59 and that was when the genre just where 2 years old, today if you count games from 2004 and newer you don't have any choice at all (Eve is from 2003). You can just play EQ copied to another game.
There is nothing wrong with a evolved version of EQ, Call it Wow, LOTRO or EQ2 but where is my choices?
I'd say there is more overall negativity around due to MMORPG gamers having become jaded and less easily pleased or less tolerant compared to in the past - I think there wouldn't be many MMO gamers to be found that can still tolerate gameplay mechanics that were present in early MMO's like long travel times, serious death penalty, corpse looting or enforced grouping, even if all those features together managed to create a special MMO gameplay experience.
Add to that, that we haven't seen that much real innovation the last 5 years, where the years before that, 1999-2004, there was actually quite some innovation and a sense of progress of the MMORPG genre. For a lot of MMO gamers that were there in the early years it'd seem that the actual progress that has been made in the MMO genre hasn't exactly been as promise-fulfilling as might have been expected before.
Negativity resulting of those 2 causes you will see focused here on mmorpg.com, where MMO gamer 'veterans' gather together even more than other MMO sites.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If we all love our MMO, we wouldn't be on a forum talking about it, we would most probably be in game playing it
So yeah, everyone is a bit unsatisfied with their game, thus a need to be on a forum discussing possible ways to make a game better, thought I wouldn't call hate.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
CEO: "So, we're going to write a new game, how long will it take."
Development Manager: "From scratch? Well, requirements gathering and high level design will be a couple of months, then another month to flesh out the design and get it approved. We'll need a new engine for better physics and stuff these days, standards have risen, so there'll need to be some developer training, then we're into development and system testing cycles for the next 9 months. 2 month dev cycles followed by 1 month to perform all the assurance, system and perfomance testing, bit of UAT, closed play testing. After 3 or so cyles we should be in a position to do a fairly wide external UAT and hardware compliance while we tidy stuff up. We'll do final performance and scalability testing at that point, final regression testing cycle, then we're good to go. Let's say 2 months contingency to be on the safe side and we'll be looking to release it towards the end of next year.
CEO: It's going to be an MMO
Development Manager: Oh.. well in that case we'll just knock together any old shit in in some old engine we already know. Give us 1 month of 3D Studio Max time, then all we need to do is bang a load of generic quests into a really basic game mechaninc and release it. Almost everything can be just generated with random words into a content model. Classes will just be the same old stuff. These muppets will just lap it up. Rememoer it's an MMO so we can literally release anything! All the fixes get paid for under "server hosting and live service costs", and the users will all put up with it "becuase it's an MMO!".
CEO: Really?
Development Manager: Yep. I don't know why either, but that's the deal. They will literally buy any old shit.
CEO: "So, we're going to write a new game, how long will it take."
Development Manager: "From scratch? Well, requirements gathering and high level design will be a couple of months, then another month to flesh out the design and get it approved. We'll need a new engine for better physics and stuff these days, standards have risen, so there'll need to be some developer training, then we're into development and system testing cycles for the next 9 months. 2 month dev cycles followed by 1 month to perform all the assurance, system and perfomance testing, bit of UAT, closed play testing. After 3 or so cyles we should be in a position to do a fairly wide external UAT and hardware compliance while we tidy stuff up. We'll do final performance and scalability testing at that point, final regression testing cycle, then we're good to go. Let's say 2 months contingency to be on the safe side and we'll be looking to release it towards the end of next year.
CEO: It's going to be an MMO
Development Manager: Oh.. well in that case we'll just knock together any old shit in in some old engine we already know. Give us 1 month of 3D Studio Max time, then all we need to do is bang a load of generic quests into a really basic game mechaninc and release it. Almost everything can be just generated with random words into a content model. Classes will just be the same old stuff. These muppets will just lap it up. Rememoer it's an MMO so we can literally release anything! All the fixes get paid for under "server hosting and live service costs", and the users will all put up with it "becuase it's an MMO!".
CEO: Really?
Development Manager: Yep. I don't know why either, but that's the deal. They will literally buy any old shit.
CEO: Cool!
Hahaha.... damn funny!
I'd like to see harsher MMOs made that really are "a jungle in there" instead of the customer being right all the damn time. That's got to be one of the first things to change.
I don't think it's so much they hate mmo's it's just they always seem to expect a game that meets every expectation at release. Which any logical person would know is never going to happen. Even the most successful mmo in history(WoW love it or hate it success can't be argued) didn't have a perfect launch.
People have to remember MMO's aren't complete(or meant to be at release especially content wise). And, with everyone rushing to the end game it loses if doesn't have something there for the people who rush it in a month.
It's funny, I didn't consider myself to "hate mmo's" until reading the title/op and reflecting on my opinions and stances reguarding recent mmo's i've played.
It's not that I (we?) hate mmo's, it's just that i'm getting tired of being offered the exact same thing, rehashed, and yet also somehow coming out even more bug ridden or unplayable than the last game which is basically the same.
Sometimes you just get let down by some of the promises developers give you. It jades people, gets their hopes down, and it doesn't help that often there are people who will perpetually run around posting "told you so told you so."
All you can do is move forward, on to the next one. Either that or end up a heartbroken cynic like everyone else.
Like others have said. We don't hate mmos, we love them, but the quality of the genre has severely gone downhill over the years. We are just tired of have over hyped sub par games being released one after the other.
The idea of an MMO is much better than the product received. I either want a game that fulfills the RP component of MMORPG or the G component. The typical product provides the MMO but I feel like a cog in an ugly system playing standard MMOs. They usually aren't immersive so there's no RP. I don't even roleplay but I just want the world to feel alive. As for the 'G', repeating the same things over and over is not my idea of a game. I want to be challenged and I am anything but.
Comments
Most people here are spoiled brats.
And most people cannot play their own games - they're always comparing themselves to the next guy.
Essentially, most are fools, too afraid to acknowledge new and different things.
Remember Master Yoda? Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate...
Yup and some people just play em enjoy them ( or not enjoy them ) and move on to the next game without ever complaining on sites like these ...
That is a joke post right?
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I agree with this.
We are all preachers trying to promote our version of the truth, thinking everyone else has the same experiences and reasoning as we have.
Hate posts are provocations answered with other provocations, and in my opinion springs from the love of MMO's rather than hate.
Is that constructive ? I dont know, but is it constructive to not discuss anything ?
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I just wrote this post as an answer to all those decieved peoplewho think EverQuest praise we make is merely because of Nostalgia.
It is not Nostalgia...
It's not about EverQuest, I don't want to play EverQuest. But I want to see something that at least implements most of the features that EverQuest had (and get rid of all its problems). Since the features that we had in EverQuest are long gone, we long for a game like it.
Pretty much.
Yes, you got us all figured out. You won MMORPG.com! Grats.
Just because many people think that the MMOs have evolved in a bad way in the last few years doesn't mean they hate MMOs.
It is kinda like someone who love Bruce Springsteens old albums but doesn't think the new ones is as good, he is still a Springsteen fan.
I myself think that all games that have released for the last 5 years either are extremely similar or are a badly coded mess. Tat doesn't mean that all the similar games suck but what does suck is the fact that I have very little choice.
With pen and paper RPG there are many and very different choices, I can play D&D, Vampire, Runequest, Warhammer, Amber, Call of Cthulu or a whole other bunch of different systems with their own unique touch.
With MMOs I can either play a clone of D&D or Eve (not counting a few indie games that in some cases have good ideas but are sadly coded and buggy). Where is my choice today?
In the old days you choose between Everquest, Ultima Online or Meridian 59 and that was when the genre just where 2 years old, today if you count games from 2004 and newer you don't have any choice at all (Eve is from 2003). You can just play EQ copied to another game.
There is nothing wrong with a evolved version of EQ, Call it Wow, LOTRO or EQ2 but where is my choices?
I'd say there is more overall negativity around due to MMORPG gamers having become jaded and less easily pleased or less tolerant compared to in the past - I think there wouldn't be many MMO gamers to be found that can still tolerate gameplay mechanics that were present in early MMO's like long travel times, serious death penalty, corpse looting or enforced grouping, even if all those features together managed to create a special MMO gameplay experience.
Add to that, that we haven't seen that much real innovation the last 5 years, where the years before that, 1999-2004, there was actually quite some innovation and a sense of progress of the MMORPG genre. For a lot of MMO gamers that were there in the early years it'd seem that the actual progress that has been made in the MMO genre hasn't exactly been as promise-fulfilling as might have been expected before.
Negativity resulting of those 2 causes you will see focused here on mmorpg.com, where MMO gamer 'veterans' gather together even more than other MMO sites.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If we all love our MMO, we wouldn't be on a forum talking about it, we would most probably be in game playing it
So yeah, everyone is a bit unsatisfied with their game, thus a need to be on a forum discussing possible ways to make a game better, thought I wouldn't call hate.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
When an mmo does not satisfy your needs then you just dont play it.
I dont think there was ever a good work for a game and i hated it.
For example uncharted 2 and assasins creed 2 cant be hated because they are my top games.
But when an mmo releases and it's nothing special that will blow everyone's minds then i personaly hate it.
Why?Because it's been 5 or more years right now and there is nothing good to play and have fun.
Some people may say there is wow but some others need sth more,that not even wow can feel their needs.
In Single player games we have many masterpieces but in the mmo industry there is not even one.
CEO: "So, we're going to write a new game, how long will it take."
Development Manager: "From scratch? Well, requirements gathering and high level design will be a couple of months, then another month to flesh out the design and get it approved. We'll need a new engine for better physics and stuff these days, standards have risen, so there'll need to be some developer training, then we're into development and system testing cycles for the next 9 months. 2 month dev cycles followed by 1 month to perform all the assurance, system and perfomance testing, bit of UAT, closed play testing. After 3 or so cyles we should be in a position to do a fairly wide external UAT and hardware compliance while we tidy stuff up. We'll do final performance and scalability testing at that point, final regression testing cycle, then we're good to go. Let's say 2 months contingency to be on the safe side and we'll be looking to release it towards the end of next year.
CEO: It's going to be an MMO
Development Manager: Oh.. well in that case we'll just knock together any old shit in in some old engine we already know. Give us 1 month of 3D Studio Max time, then all we need to do is bang a load of generic quests into a really basic game mechaninc and release it. Almost everything can be just generated with random words into a content model. Classes will just be the same old stuff. These muppets will just lap it up. Rememoer it's an MMO so we can literally release anything! All the fixes get paid for under "server hosting and live service costs", and the users will all put up with it "becuase it's an MMO!".
CEO: Really?
Development Manager: Yep. I don't know why either, but that's the deal. They will literally buy any old shit.
CEO: Cool!
Ascension - EU Mature, Friendly, Laid Back SW:TOR Guild now recruiting.
People love to hate.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
Hahaha.... damn funny!
I'd like to see harsher MMOs made that really are "a jungle in there" instead of the customer being right all the damn time. That's got to be one of the first things to change.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
I don't think it's so much they hate mmo's it's just they always seem to expect a game that meets every expectation at release. Which any logical person would know is never going to happen. Even the most successful mmo in history(WoW love it or hate it success can't be argued) didn't have a perfect launch.
People have to remember MMO's aren't complete(or meant to be at release especially content wise). And, with everyone rushing to the end game it loses if doesn't have something there for the people who rush it in a month.
Every generic MMO related forum consists from the following groups:
49.5% - People that can't find a game they like (otherwise they would be playing it instead of posting crap)
49.5% - People being bored at work. Most of them are trolls.
1% - Everybody else !
Most people who are satisfied with the market are playing in the market.
Those waiting for something 'worth playing' are talking about what they'd like, here on the forums.
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
It's funny, I didn't consider myself to "hate mmo's" until reading the title/op and reflecting on my opinions and stances reguarding recent mmo's i've played.
It's not that I (we?) hate mmo's, it's just that i'm getting tired of being offered the exact same thing, rehashed, and yet also somehow coming out even more bug ridden or unplayable than the last game which is basically the same.
All you can do is move forward, on to the next one. Either that or end up a heartbroken cynic like everyone else.
Awaiting GW2
I think it is just the internet. Looks like everybody on internet like to only complain.
Agreed.
Like others have said. We don't hate mmos, we love them, but the quality of the genre has severely gone downhill over the years. We are just tired of have over hyped sub par games being released one after the other.
Concept = awesome
Execution = fail
The idea of an MMO is much better than the product received. I either want a game that fulfills the RP component of MMORPG or the G component. The typical product provides the MMO but I feel like a cog in an ugly system playing standard MMOs. They usually aren't immersive so there's no RP. I don't even roleplay but I just want the world to feel alive. As for the 'G', repeating the same things over and over is not my idea of a game. I want to be challenged and I am anything but.