It depends on what type of game it is. If we are still thinking of mmo's as virtual worlds then "no" there shouldn't be any end game. What you do at lvl 1 is what you do at cap but on a greater scale.
Otherwise, what are your choices for endgame? pvp and raiding. pvp makes some sense if there is territory control. I understand some people like being ranked on a ladder so that could also make some sense.
Raiding? Raiding for gear so that you can raid for better gear so that you can do better raids, for gear, seems like an odd sort of end game to me. I imagine people like it but I couldn't see that as being something of interest to me.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Whats the problem that group players have with solo players ? By the reactions I read on forums it's little wonder that 'solo' players have little interest to play with you, becouse you behave like little elitist selfish kids - "MY way of playing is better than yours", "I deserve better rewards than you" etc.
Group players thinks that they deserve more, solo players wants just parity in content and rewards - blasphemy ... In the end they both pay same money to company and therefore none of them desrves preferential treatment . So this whole topic is utter nonsense, good mmo game should have end-game for all playstyles it allows.
Everyone is a solo player in essence. and everyone has choices.
This endgame debate is folly.....There should be no endgame what-so-ever in a MMO, it's a virtual world and players should make their own decisions on what defines endgame.
Look back at MMOs that had a vibrant community there were no such thing as endgame, Hell in fact if the players stopped thinking to speed through every damn thing to flex their E-Peen perhaps they'll actually understand that the gaming community could thrive.
Like I said, if 'endgame' revolves around power gear, you sociopathic butterflies can keep it. I'll quit any game that forces me to raid to be competitive in pvp or be viable in any pve content I want to do. If everyone who doesn't want to raid did that, we would have games that cater to us. If we keep doing what we don't want to do in any MMO, we'll keep getting fed swill.
If endgame revolves around something I do want to do, like collect furniture to decorate my player house with, expand my housing space so I have room for more furniture, grow food in a garden, build my own personal assistant and part time ninja from scrap metal, find social clothing that can be dry cleaned (It's so hard to get the previous owner's blood out!), or if the content itself is actually *gasp* fun even after I've seen it twenty times, then yeah, I want to be able to solo it, or team up via a dungeon finder type system rather than be forced to join a guild. Sorry, I'm old and I'm afraid of commitment.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I personally find that Solo players are the biggest complainers.... and as such a lot of games physically change and alter to please those players and often ruins the game. Wow is a good example.
If you've ever heard of someone saying x game is boring, its usually because they are soloers. then the game gets dumbed down leaving those who like to group up with a game that is significantly less challenging.
Ive no problem with soloing, I do it myself a lot.. but the main attraction to me is the interaction between other actual players both the competition and the cooperation.
Like I said, if 'endgame' revolves around power gear, you sociopathic butterflies can keep it. I'll quit any game that forces me to raid to be competitive in pvp or be viable in any pve content I want to do. If everyone who doesn't want to raid did that, we would have games that cater to us. If we keep doing what we don't want to do in any MMO, we'll keep getting fed swill.
If endgame revolves around something I do want to do, like collect furniture to decorate my player house with, expand my housing space so I have room for more furniture, grow food in a garden, build my own personal assistant and part time ninja from scrap metal, find social clothing that can be dry cleaned (It's so hard to get the previous owner's blood out!), or if the content itself is actually *gasp* fun even after I've seen it twenty times, then yeah, I want to be able to solo it, or team up via a dungeon finder type system rather than be forced to join a guild. Sorry, I'm old and I'm afraid of commitment.
Those are all different kinds of endgame (except the dry cleaning thing, try dwarf vodka, always works for me).
The whole idea about endgame is that there should be different things to do when you reach the max level so that as many players as possible like to spend longer time in the game instead of just quitting after leveling up 2-3 characters.
I agree with you, those ideas are rather easy to implement and if they keep a few players longer it would be worth the effort for any devs.
Those are all different kinds of endgame (except the dry cleaning thing, try dwarf vodka, always works for me).
The whole idea about endgame is that there should be different things to do when you reach the max level so that as many players as possible like to spend longer time in the game instead of just quitting after leveling up 2-3 characters.
I agree with you, those ideas are rather easy to implement and if they keep a few players longer it would be worth the effort for any devs.
Dwarf vodka, huh? And to think I tried lemon juice!
*Goes out to kill a drunk dwarf and loot his flask*
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
""Everyone is a solo player in essence. and everyone has choices. This endgame debate is folly.....There should be no endgame what-so-ever in a MMO, it's a virtual world and players should make their own decisions on what defines endgame. Look back at MMOs that had a vibrant community there were no such thing as endgame, Hell in fact if the players stopped thinking to speed through every damn thing to flex their E-Peen perhaps they'll actually understand that the gaming community could thrive.""
Agree. end-game is pointless.
I would also add, on the community topic, that the standard MMO feature of multiple characters per server ruins the community, if not out-right kills it from the start:
- Mules and alt-crafters take money out of the economy/Auction House and ruin potential financial / crafting relationships with guildmates.
- Encourages gold farmers.
One character per server with quest / story-line / grind 'barber'-type options for EVERYTHING; race, skills, sex, appearance - they should be time consuming and not easily accessible without help from friends...aka COMMUNITY:
+ Removes anonymity; We know who you are, and you can't hide uless you erase your ONE character. Nub.
+ Economy rebounds; guildmates are now known for their crafting prowess and are tipped accordingly. The Auction house is actually USEFULL now.
+ Gold farmers finding it harder to script for one character per server. Put a timer on character delete / recreate; problem solved.
+ Adds more things to do in-game instead of just creating multiple characters. If you have to go quest to change class or skills, etc...
Over the top? Not if you truly want a COMMUNITY. TRULY. Otherwise, you are a soloer...
Most MMOs do have a lot of content for the solo player, but if all the good stuff at the end is grouping, it's like saying you can have all the cake you want but no icing.
Personally, I do not subscribe to the opinion that group content is 'better' or more worthy of developer's time than solo.
What most soloers really want is a series of progressively harder content that offers progressively better rewards. Simple endgame progression. That is fun. Currently, few MMOs offer this outside of grouping.
As far as loot goes, I do not need the best raid gear to solo. Neither does a raider. How would raiders feel if you could get top raid gear through pvp? Pvp should offer the best pvp gear, raiding offer the best raid gear, and soloing offer the best gear for soloing.
Clearly, lots of people like to raid. Great! You should enjoy the game in the way that's most fun to you. And you should be content to let everyone else do the same.
""Everyone is a solo player in essence. and everyone has choices. This endgame debate is folly.....There should be no endgame what-so-ever in a MMO, it's a virtual world and players should make their own decisions on what defines endgame. Look back at MMOs that had a vibrant community there were no such thing as endgame, Hell in fact if the players stopped thinking to speed through every damn thing to flex their E-Peen perhaps they'll actually understand that the gaming community could thrive.""
Agree. end-game is pointless.
I would also add, on the community topic, that the standard MMO feature of multiple characters per server ruins the community, if not out-right kills it from the start:
- Mules and alt-crafters take money out of the economy/Auction House and ruin potential financial / crafting relationships with guildmates.
- Encourages gold farmers.
One character per server with quest / story-line / grind 'barber'-type options for EVERYTHING; race, skills, sex, appearance - they should be time consuming and not easily accessible without help from friends...aka COMMUNITY:
+ Removes anonymity; We know who you are, and you can't hide uless you erase your ONE character. Nub.
+ Economy rebounds; guildmates are now known for their crafting prowess and are tipped accordingly. The Auction house is actually USEFULL now.
+ Gold farmers finding it harder to script for one character per server. Put a timer on character delete / recreate; problem solved.
+ Adds more things to do in-game instead of just creating multiple characters. If you have to go quest to change class or skills, etc...
Over the top? Not if you truly want a COMMUNITY. TRULY. Otherwise, you are a soloer...
Er, you do realize Darkfall has a lot of those restrictions and its community isn't any better than your average MMO, which is to say, it's a bit better than the WoW community, but much ruder and nastier than the Fallen Earth, LOTRO, or Xsyon community.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Comments
It depends on what type of game it is. If we are still thinking of mmo's as virtual worlds then "no" there shouldn't be any end game. What you do at lvl 1 is what you do at cap but on a greater scale.
Otherwise, what are your choices for endgame? pvp and raiding. pvp makes some sense if there is territory control. I understand some people like being ranked on a ladder so that could also make some sense.
Raiding? Raiding for gear so that you can raid for better gear so that you can do better raids, for gear, seems like an odd sort of end game to me. I imagine people like it but I couldn't see that as being something of interest to me.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Whats the problem that group players have with solo players ? By the reactions I read on forums it's little wonder that 'solo' players have little interest to play with you, becouse you behave like little elitist selfish kids - "MY way of playing is better than yours", "I deserve better rewards than you" etc.
Group players thinks that they deserve more, solo players wants just parity in content and rewards - blasphemy ... In the end they both pay same money to company and therefore none of them desrves preferential treatment . So this whole topic is utter nonsense, good mmo game should have end-game for all playstyles it allows.
Define end game...
Everyone is a solo player in essence. and everyone has choices.
This endgame debate is folly.....There should be no endgame what-so-ever in a MMO, it's a virtual world and players should make their own decisions on what defines endgame.
Look back at MMOs that had a vibrant community there were no such thing as endgame, Hell in fact if the players stopped thinking to speed through every damn thing to flex their E-Peen perhaps they'll actually understand that the gaming community could thrive.
Like I said, if 'endgame' revolves around power gear, you sociopathic butterflies can keep it. I'll quit any game that forces me to raid to be competitive in pvp or be viable in any pve content I want to do. If everyone who doesn't want to raid did that, we would have games that cater to us. If we keep doing what we don't want to do in any MMO, we'll keep getting fed swill.
If endgame revolves around something I do want to do, like collect furniture to decorate my player house with, expand my housing space so I have room for more furniture, grow food in a garden, build my own personal assistant and part time ninja from scrap metal, find social clothing that can be dry cleaned (It's so hard to get the previous owner's blood out!), or if the content itself is actually *gasp* fun even after I've seen it twenty times, then yeah, I want to be able to solo it, or team up via a dungeon finder type system rather than be forced to join a guild. Sorry, I'm old and I'm afraid of commitment.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I personally find that Solo players are the biggest complainers.... and as such a lot of games physically change and alter to please those players and often ruins the game. Wow is a good example.
If you've ever heard of someone saying x game is boring, its usually because they are soloers. then the game gets dumbed down leaving those who like to group up with a game that is significantly less challenging.
Ive no problem with soloing, I do it myself a lot.. but the main attraction to me is the interaction between other actual players both the competition and the cooperation.
Those are all different kinds of endgame (except the dry cleaning thing, try dwarf vodka, always works for me).
The whole idea about endgame is that there should be different things to do when you reach the max level so that as many players as possible like to spend longer time in the game instead of just quitting after leveling up 2-3 characters.
I agree with you, those ideas are rather easy to implement and if they keep a few players longer it would be worth the effort for any devs.
Dwarf vodka, huh? And to think I tried lemon juice!
*Goes out to kill a drunk dwarf and loot his flask*
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
""Everyone is a solo player in essence. and everyone has choices. This endgame debate is folly.....There should be no endgame what-so-ever in a MMO, it's a virtual world and players should make their own decisions on what defines endgame. Look back at MMOs that had a vibrant community there were no such thing as endgame, Hell in fact if the players stopped thinking to speed through every damn thing to flex their E-Peen perhaps they'll actually understand that the gaming community could thrive.""
Agree. end-game is pointless.
I would also add, on the community topic, that the standard MMO feature of multiple characters per server ruins the community, if not out-right kills it from the start:
- Anonymity; Griefing issues, Cross-realmers, etc..
- Mules and alt-crafters take money out of the economy/Auction House and ruin potential financial / crafting relationships with guildmates.
- Encourages gold farmers.
One character per server with quest / story-line / grind 'barber'-type options for EVERYTHING; race, skills, sex, appearance - they should be time consuming and not easily accessible without help from friends...aka COMMUNITY:
+ Removes anonymity; We know who you are, and you can't hide uless you erase your ONE character. Nub.
+ Economy rebounds; guildmates are now known for their crafting prowess and are tipped accordingly. The Auction house is actually USEFULL now.
+ Gold farmers finding it harder to script for one character per server. Put a timer on character delete / recreate; problem solved.
+ Adds more things to do in-game instead of just creating multiple characters. If you have to go quest to change class or skills, etc...
Over the top? Not if you truly want a COMMUNITY. TRULY. Otherwise, you are a soloer...
Most MMOs do have a lot of content for the solo player, but if all the good stuff at the end is grouping, it's like saying you can have all the cake you want but no icing.
Personally, I do not subscribe to the opinion that group content is 'better' or more worthy of developer's time than solo.
What most soloers really want is a series of progressively harder content that offers progressively better rewards. Simple endgame progression. That is fun. Currently, few MMOs offer this outside of grouping.
As far as loot goes, I do not need the best raid gear to solo. Neither does a raider. How would raiders feel if you could get top raid gear through pvp? Pvp should offer the best pvp gear, raiding offer the best raid gear, and soloing offer the best gear for soloing.
Clearly, lots of people like to raid. Great! You should enjoy the game in the way that's most fun to you. And you should be content to let everyone else do the same.
Er, you do realize Darkfall has a lot of those restrictions and its community isn't any better than your average MMO, which is to say, it's a bit better than the WoW community, but much ruder and nastier than the Fallen Earth, LOTRO, or Xsyon community.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein