Probably get a roasting for this, but to be honest if you want to play solo, grab a single player game and enjoy that and when you have the time jump on your MMOs for some Multiplayer action. If we keep this current trend up of creating content for even the most casual person, we will soon have to change the description to MOrpg.
The problem with single player end game is that you would have to make it close to as good as the multiplayer stuff, as you would suffer waves of outcries from people who believe there gameplay is being treated unfairly. As soon as the soloplayer endgame gives returns nearly as good as the group stuff, people will soon decide not to bother with the grouping process as it takes to long etc.
An example can be made of the leveling process in world of warcraft.
You can level up in groups, doing quests together and killing monsters, but you can also do it solo. I level faster in world of warcraft solo. Outside of instances of course. Solo leveling up takes less time as you dont have to get a group, also exp is better when solo from mob kills.
Originally posted by Enerzeal Probably get a roasting for this, but to be honest if you want to play solo, grab a single player game and enjoy that and when you have the time jump on your MMOs for some Multiplayer action. If we keep this current trend up of creating content for even the most casual person, we will soon have to change the description to MOrpg. The problem with single player end game is that you would have to make it close to as good as the multiplayer stuff, as you would suffer waves of outcries from people who believe there gameplay is being treated unfairly. As soon as the soloplayer endgame gives returns nearly as good as the group stuff, people will soon decide not to bother with the grouping process as it takes to long etc. An example can be made of the leveling process in world of warcraft. You can level up in groups, doing quests together and killing monsters, but you can also do it solo. I level faster in world of warcraft solo. Outside of instances of course. Solo leveling up takes less time as you dont have to get a group, also exp is better when solo from mob kills.
WoW is a terrible example of most things because all of the mechanics are so hopelessly broken.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
oh.. To you guys who think there should not be an endgame, I would like to point my finger at what I think is a very good attempt at dealing with the endgame problem: eq1 alternative advancement.
IMO, "end game" should be thrown out of the MMO design. I never liked this aspect of WoW. You grind and grind just so you can get to a point to do raids for what? Rare weapons and gear? That's pretty lame if you ask me. I don't like the whole concept. I think there should be a more emphasis on solo game play and allow grouping to be part of the game, but mainly in other fashions of the game like special events or something along those lines.
Without reading this whole thread, I just wanted to drop my 2 cents in. I play MMOs mostly solo, and probably always will, solo players should NOT have an end game. Although most MMOs these days provide plenty of solo content, they are still MMOs, and the grandest rewards should be reserved for those players who take/have the time to play through the games most difficult challenges.
I enjoy the social aspect of MMOs much like a park sitter people watching. It's great to have all that activity around me even though I may not actively participate, but I don't deserve any special treatment for being a bump on a log.
Well, the reality is this. There aren't solo players and players that group in MMO's really. Those that do soley one or the other are rare. Some group often and solo every so often out of need or desire. Some solo often and group every so often out of need or desire. Everyone for the most part has their days when they either feel like being alone and just doing their own thing or simply feel like hanging out with a group and doing something together.
So do you think a game should only allow end game to be playable when you feel like grouping is really the question your asking lol.
Should they have a endgame like the groupers do? Or should solo players just hit cap, finish out their quests and re-roll?
The perception that there is no solo endgame is simply not true. Fact is that in most modern MMOs solo content outweighs raid content by a ratio of about 90% to 10% depending on the game. The fact that raid content takes more time to do as it requires progression doesn't mean there is more of it.
For example in EQ2 after i hit level 90, there were like 100 solo quests and like 2 raid ones. Just because the soloers finish their content and get pissy that raiders still have something to occupy their time, doesn't mean there is no content. That's just the nature of challenge. One you master solo stuff, the next challenge is group stuff, one you master that, the next challenge is multi-group stuff. The person that does all 3 has the most content, the person who only does 1 has the least. If you want to get the most out of the game, do everything. If you choose not to do some of content, it's your problem.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I think solo players should have an end game BUT (and this is a big thing which will turn people off)
BUT!
I think it should be a part of a bigger group progression such as guild progression.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
I don't see any issue with having both a solo and a group endgame. To each their own in that regard. I do believe that group endgame content should be more rewarding to adhere to the risk vs reward mechanic.
I would love to have some end game for soloing. Like a long difficult questline that gives gear just under thr group raid stuff but with a totally unique look or title.
Why do those solo guys need something to do? I love the idea of being a Cowboy GM and rounding up those soloers and forcing them to stay in a herd for raids and such.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
That's a good article. They seem to get the soloist. For me lately ive been more or a solo quester, crafter but I do keep up on guild discussions and I group up for dungeons and skirmishes when the need arises. With my lifestyle (four kids all under the age of 11) i am constantly going afk so I feel that it would just be better to not put myself I'n a situation where I'm an inconvenience to others. Doesn't mean I need to leave the genre for single player RPGs. I think many solo types simply don't have the time to spare. This is why I push for soloist progression passed level cap, give people that simply can group something to work toward other than just rolling Alts.
I don't get why people are so against it honestly. Maybe they don't understand the solo player? From my experience most of the soloist are people that can't play In extended sessions like most of the player base, they can't commit to a two hour raid because their kids force them to go afk every 10 minutes. Most of these people don't want op rewards like raiders they just wanna level and then have something to quietly work toward at thier own pace without feeling pressured to group or reroll. In Lotro I can quietly quest, work on crafting and I even have solo skirmishes to mess with for my very own sets of gear. It works I'n that game and takes nothing away from the hardcore raiders.
No solo and Massively Multiplayer Online Games should not even be used in the same sentence
Just because you have absolutely no life and can dedicate what exists of it to a video game doesn't mean everyone else is in the same situation.
Yeah, I think solo should have an endgame. An MMO is infinite. There is plenty of room to appeal to both solo and group players. Selfish bastards on BOTH sides think an MMO should be one or the other, but that shouldn't be the case. There should be a solo endgame, AND a group one, so that people with actual LIVES still have something to do when they get that hour or two of 'me time' during the week, but have people to play with when they get a free day.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
No solo and Massively Multiplayer Online Games should not even be used in the same sentence
Just because you have absolutely no life and can dedicate what exists of it to a video game doesn't mean everyone else is in the same situation.
Yeah, I think solo should have an endgame. An MMO is infinite. There is plenty of room to appeal to both solo and group players. Selfish bastards on BOTH sides think an MMO should be one or the other, but that shouldn't be the case. There should be a solo endgame, AND a group one, so that people with actual LIVES still have something to do when they get that hour or two of 'me time' during the week, but have people to play with when they get a free day.
Don't even bother... Most of these guys are just bullshitting anyway. They've all played solo In MMOs. Hell... I played eve and on my pve character I played solo every minute because the isk was better I'n solo L4s & exploration. On my pvp pilot half of my career was spent I'n small gang or solo play. We all solo, we soloed UO, we soloed I'n great games like AO & DAoC and even now I'n EVE & Darkfall we solo because you will never have people willing to group 100% of the time.. Sooner or later you will need something to work on by yourself.
Just out of curiosity, why do you write "I'n" instead of "in" every single time?
My iPhone does it. It auto corrects words and for some reason everytime I type "in" it comes out that way. It also does it with hell. Makes it he'll. I don't know how to stop the auto corrector from doing it lol.
Just out of curiosity, why do you write "I'n" instead of "in" every single time?
My iPhone does it. It auto corrects words and for some reason everytime I type "in" it comes out that way. It also does it with hell. Makes it he'll. I don't know how to stop the auto corrector from doing it lol.
LOL that's what I figured. Anyway, sorry for going offtopic.
Comments
The Dynamic Event System in Guild Wars 2 provides an end game for everyone, solo players included.
Probably get a roasting for this, but to be honest if you want to play solo, grab a single player game and enjoy that and when you have the time jump on your MMOs for some Multiplayer action. If we keep this current trend up of creating content for even the most casual person, we will soon have to change the description to MOrpg.
The problem with single player end game is that you would have to make it close to as good as the multiplayer stuff, as you would suffer waves of outcries from people who believe there gameplay is being treated unfairly. As soon as the soloplayer endgame gives returns nearly as good as the group stuff, people will soon decide not to bother with the grouping process as it takes to long etc.
An example can be made of the leveling process in world of warcraft.
You can level up in groups, doing quests together and killing monsters, but you can also do it solo. I level faster in world of warcraft solo. Outside of instances of course. Solo leveling up takes less time as you dont have to get a group, also exp is better when solo from mob kills.
WoW is a terrible example of most things because all of the mechanics are so hopelessly broken.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
play vidictus if u wanna solo in end game or any other part cuz nine out of ten dungeons can be soloed from the start
its my view nobody should be able to reach end game, ever.
a good game will allow for constant growth while at the same time not impeding game play for new players becuase of vets.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Why is there even a word like "endgame" ?
Why are solo players playing a mmorpg ?
And who the ... drank all my beer /grunt ?
oh.. To you guys who think there should not be an endgame, I would like to point my finger at what I think is a very good attempt at dealing with the endgame problem: eq1 alternative advancement.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
IMO, "end game" should be thrown out of the MMO design. I never liked this aspect of WoW. You grind and grind just so you can get to a point to do raids for what? Rare weapons and gear? That's pretty lame if you ask me. I don't like the whole concept. I think there should be a more emphasis on solo game play and allow grouping to be part of the game, but mainly in other fashions of the game like special events or something along those lines.
Without reading this whole thread, I just wanted to drop my 2 cents in. I play MMOs mostly solo, and probably always will, solo players should NOT have an end game. Although most MMOs these days provide plenty of solo content, they are still MMOs, and the grandest rewards should be reserved for those players who take/have the time to play through the games most difficult challenges.
I enjoy the social aspect of MMOs much like a park sitter people watching. It's great to have all that activity around me even though I may not actively participate, but I don't deserve any special treatment for being a bump on a log.
Well, the reality is this. There aren't solo players and players that group in MMO's really. Those that do soley one or the other are rare. Some group often and solo every so often out of need or desire. Some solo often and group every so often out of need or desire. Everyone for the most part has their days when they either feel like being alone and just doing their own thing or simply feel like hanging out with a group and doing something together.
So do you think a game should only allow end game to be playable when you feel like grouping is really the question your asking lol.
I think it depend on player will he have solo endgame or not. Because most of MMO's do offer you a tons of end game options and things to do.
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The perception that there is no solo endgame is simply not true. Fact is that in most modern MMOs solo content outweighs raid content by a ratio of about 90% to 10% depending on the game. The fact that raid content takes more time to do as it requires progression doesn't mean there is more of it.
For example in EQ2 after i hit level 90, there were like 100 solo quests and like 2 raid ones. Just because the soloers finish their content and get pissy that raiders still have something to occupy their time, doesn't mean there is no content. That's just the nature of challenge. One you master solo stuff, the next challenge is group stuff, one you master that, the next challenge is multi-group stuff. The person that does all 3 has the most content, the person who only does 1 has the least. If you want to get the most out of the game, do everything. If you choose not to do some of content, it's your problem.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Edit :
Fail! I was on teh wrong boards o.o
Aaaaanyways!
I think solo players should have an end game BUT (and this is a big thing which will turn people off)
BUT!
I think it should be a part of a bigger group progression such as guild progression.
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
I don't see any issue with having both a solo and a group endgame. To each their own in that regard. I do believe that group endgame content should be more rewarding to adhere to the risk vs reward mechanic.
I would love to have some end game for soloing. Like a long difficult questline that gives gear just under thr group raid stuff but with a totally unique look or title.
Why do those solo guys need something to do? I love the idea of being a Cowboy GM and rounding up those soloers and forcing them to stay in a herd for raids and such.
Yehah!
Bioware at least understands.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6228707.html?tag=latestheadlines%3Btitle%3B4&tag=stitialclk%3Bnews
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
That's a good article. They seem to get the soloist. For me lately ive been more or a solo quester, crafter but I do keep up on guild discussions and I group up for dungeons and skirmishes when the need arises. With my lifestyle (four kids all under the age of 11) i am constantly going afk so I feel that it would just be better to not put myself I'n a situation where I'm an inconvenience to others. Doesn't mean I need to leave the genre for single player RPGs. I think many solo types simply don't have the time to spare. This is why I push for soloist progression passed level cap, give people that simply can group something to work toward other than just rolling Alts.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
No solo and Massively Multiplayer Online Games should not even be used in the same sentence
Just because you have absolutely no life and can dedicate what exists of it to a video game doesn't mean everyone else is in the same situation.
Yeah, I think solo should have an endgame. An MMO is infinite. There is plenty of room to appeal to both solo and group players. Selfish bastards on BOTH sides think an MMO should be one or the other, but that shouldn't be the case. There should be a solo endgame, AND a group one, so that people with actual LIVES still have something to do when they get that hour or two of 'me time' during the week, but have people to play with when they get a free day.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
End Game = Rage Quit
Just because you have absolutely no life and can dedicate what exists of it to a video game doesn't mean everyone else is in the same situation.
Yeah, I think solo should have an endgame. An MMO is infinite. There is plenty of room to appeal to both solo and group players. Selfish bastards on BOTH sides think an MMO should be one or the other, but that shouldn't be the case. There should be a solo endgame, AND a group one, so that people with actual LIVES still have something to do when they get that hour or two of 'me time' during the week, but have people to play with when they get a free day.
Don't even bother... Most of these guys are just bullshitting anyway. They've all played solo In MMOs. Hell... I played eve and on my pve character I played solo every minute because the isk was better I'n solo L4s & exploration. On my pvp pilot half of my career was spent I'n small gang or solo play. We all solo, we soloed UO, we soloed I'n great games like AO & DAoC and even now I'n EVE & Darkfall we solo because you will never have people willing to group 100% of the time.. Sooner or later you will need something to work on by yourself.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Just out of curiosity, why do you write "I'n" instead of "in" every single time?
My iPhone does it. It auto corrects words and for some reason everytime I type "in" it comes out that way. It also does it with hell. Makes it he'll. I don't know how to stop the auto corrector from doing it lol.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
LOL that's what I figured. Anyway, sorry for going offtopic.