Game is playable. I enjoy it, and that's what matters. If you like wow, this isn't the game for you. Go play one of it's clones like Lotro or something.
Menus are a part of Final Fantasy. If you don't like them, I don't know what to tell you there. Again, You cannot compare this game to any MMO that aspires to be WoW. I would even go so far as to say that it is more involved 10 fold. Some people like to think when they play games as it presents a challenge.
And before the flaming starts, I do play WoW. And FFXIV. And each of them has their play time. This is the first time since I stopped playing FFXI due to being hacked that I have played more than 1 mmo. IMO, they are different enough to keep me entertained. Can't do that with another clone.
FF14's beta and release were absolutely atrocious, but I do like how SE has been handling it. Clear acknowledgements that there are serious problems, free months, etc. Better than most.
They have no choice but to do this. Investors and others are down SE's throat to make the game a sucess, because so far it has been an HUGE utter disappointment for HR and Sales due to all that they lied and left out, and cut corners. Ill come back next year when the game will hopefully be worth the price of the game and subscriptions because still, the game is a laughable joke from a PC gamer standpoint since they felt they had to dumb down to us to make it fitting for consoles, which was the WRONG approach..
If you don't like the game, fine. But don't post as if you where in the SE board meetings. You don't even know if they have investors, SE has a ton of money they don't need investors.
How do you come up with stuff like they lied? They never did, in fact they are the only MMO company that openly admitted that the game was not ready. They never lied about content pre release either. Why do you have to make up stuff like that, it does not strengthen your weak argument but rather make it look more silly.
How did they cut corners or left out things? There was an OPEN BETA and everyone could see what is going to be in the game. Seriously how do you come up with stuff like that?
You contradict yourself so much. You might want to look into the mirror before lashing out to the one you are quoting.
Where am i lashing, i merely stated that the game was in beta and they NEVER once lied to us about content, that is correct is it not?
If SE has so much cash, that they do not need investors? Then why the heck did they even launch the game in such an unfinished, joke of a state?
I don't know, i am not the one pretending to be at the board meetings knowing what they or their investors do. I could make an educated guess or speculate but i don't since ~I have no idea why they released early~
If they have plenty of cash (wich I know they do) they could have easily delayed the game and FINISH it into a more releasable state, before launching it.
I agree they could.
But the truth is. That they thought that they had a "JESUS" status among their fans and that their fans would buy and support anything in any state they could throw at them.
They thought that they could release the game unfinished and start cashing in on their loyal fans, while in meanwhile finishing the game (using the loyal fans a "paying" lab rats) for the Console release.
And this is where you pretend to know what they think. You don't, in fact you have not got the slightest idea whats going on at SE. So why bother arguing over it?
Thank god it totally back fired and SE got burned to the stake by pretty much every critic in the world and most their loyal fans. And even their main investor dropped all his stock out of rage and dissapointment and left. haha.
Their main investor is the former owner of Enix, Yasuhiro Fukushima holding 20% of the companies stock. Even if that rumour about a rage quitting investor where true (which it is not and can be proven with the stock charts and volume traded) then the famously quoted $26 Million would be 1.47% of the total $1.77 Billion Market Capitalization of SE.
I would love to argue with you but i fear that the difference in actually knowledge about the stock market and the facts prevents us from having a fruitfull conversation.
[mod edit]
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Pardon? I'm not entirely sure why you are attacking me here as I have made no arguments for or against SE at any point in this thread. I merely posted links which point to major investors in SE and a stock chart showing it's value. This was done so people could see the info for themselves, and given I have no idea as to what level of understanding most have of financial data I kept it as simplistic as possible.
Yes, i thanked you for the links, i was actually addressing Justley3 not you. Somehow that Quote got lost.
I sincerely apologize. It was directed at Justley3 pretending to know what goes on at the SE board meetings.
I have made no suggestions about anyone 'calling SE' to complain or events that may/may not occur in shareholder meetings. I will assume that you are mistaking me with another poster, but for future reference it is not wise to suggest what people do/do not know based on them posting a few links for others to look at. After having worked in finance over the past ten years or so I have a relatively clear understanding of how the markets work thank you very much so please do not attempt to lecture me on it, especially as I have not made any comments on a given stock in the first place.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Ya i really do agree with you. I stopped playing because the UI was just so clunky slow and terrible. It honestly felt like it was against you. After the update it feels way more responsive and a lot more fluid. Everything is just running great now even my fps have went up about 30. Give the game a second shot, square knows the messed up at least they addmitted to it and are taking quick actions to fix what they can.
The UI was something I was used to unfortunately. I LOVE the facelift they gave to it. Just about everything is dragable, I noticed how the FPS jumped up tremendously and everything is running like a charm! I think I may be falling in love with this game again. I haven't found any of the new content, if they added (I didn't look at the patch notes), but everything is running much better than it was before and I am not wasting time scrolling through my inventory and waiting for gear to be equipped, then running through and readding commands. It's a sign of redemption, I am awestruck that they came back strong with this patch. All the talk they've been mentioning during the apologies is justified. I thought they were full of it when they kept mentioning the updates after just about every question, but they have my attention now. Thanks SE, wonderful patch!
Pardon? I'm not entirely sure why you are attacking me here as I have made no arguments for or against SE at any point in this thread. I merely posted links which point to major investors in SE and a stock chart showing it's value. This was done so people could see the info for themselves, and given I have no idea as to what level of understanding most have of financial data I kept it as simplistic as possible.
Yes, i thanked you for the links, i was actually addressing Justley3 not you. Somehow that Quote got lost.
I sincerely apologize. It was directed at Justley3 pretending to know what goes on at the SE board meetings.
I have made no suggestions about anyone 'calling SE' to complain or events that may/may not occur in shareholder meetings. I will assume that you are mistaking me with another poster, but for future reference it is not wise to suggest what people do/do not know based on them posting a few links for others to look at. After having worked in finance over the past ten years or so I have a relatively clear understanding of how the markets work thank you very much so please do not attempt to lecture me on it, especially as I have not made any comments on a given stock in the first place.
Ah well in that case thanks for the apology (most wouldn't bother sadly) and for clearing it up.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Ya i really do agree with you. I stopped playing because the UI was just so clunky slow and terrible. It honestly felt like it was against you. After the update it feels way more responsive and a lot more fluid. Everything is just running great now even my fps have went up about 30. Give the game a second shot, square knows the messed up at least they addmitted to it and are taking quick actions to fix what they can.
The UI was something I was used to unfortunately. I LOVE the facelift they gave to it. Just about everything is dragable, I noticed how the FPS jumped up tremendously and everything is running like a charm! I think I may be falling in love with this game again. I haven't found any of the new content, if they added (I didn't look at the patch notes), but everything is running much better than it was before and I am not wasting time scrolling through my inventory and waiting for gear to be equipped, then running through and readding commands. It's a sign of redemption, I am awestruck that they came back strong with this patch. All the talk they've been mentioning during the apologies is justified. I thought they were full of it when they kept mentioning the updates after just about every question, but they have my attention now. Thanks SE, wonderful patch!
Yeah, I decided to come back and give it another go with this round of free playtime. I figured it's on SE's dime; what did I have to lose?
I also decided this time to take a different approach to the game than I did last time. Last time I played it more like a game... as I would most other MMOs that, frankly, are designed to be that way.
To elaborate, last time I played, my friends and myself focused on grouping up, knocking out leves, going to the next city, knocking out leves... going to the third city and knocking out leves... maybe grinding mobs for a time. Then we'd be like "Well, what else can we do? Finished the current batch of storyline quests already. Not much else to do 'til the leves reset"... we'd maybe go look around or something... but ultimately, that was that. We logged out and, eventually, cancelled.
It was very much a "go go go... or do nothing" approach we were taking. In hindsight, it's no wonder we burned out as quickly as we did.
Some might ask "what's wrong with that?". Absolutely nothing - if you're playing a game designed around that sort of playstyle. FFXIV, it seems, isn't. And that's not necessarily a bad thing - unless you're wanting to play it that way... as I did at first, and others have as well.
I'll never say there's an absolute "right" or "wrong" way to play a MMO. However, I do argue strongly that there is an ideal way to play one... and that ideal approach is often conveyed through the design of the game itself.
FFXI, for example, is a MMO designed around a slower pace and longer progression curve than other so-called "casual friendly" MMOs. There are those who attempted to play it as they might a typical post WoW era MMO.. They'd try to race through it, trying to get to reach that finish line and hit end game as quickly as possible. They focused primarily on grinding levels as fast as they could at the exclusion of anything and everything that didn't contribute to that goal. Almost inevitably, many of those same people described it as a constant, frustrating upstream battle. They would leave the game after only months, complaining of what a shallow, slow grind it is. Why? Because FFXI was not designed for that style of gameplay.
Yet... those who dug in to the game for the long haul, who weren't in a hurry, who diversified their activities, who sought out to partake in a variety of the numerous different activities FFXI offered... loved the game and continued to play it for years. Those people often describe it as an awesome, immense and deep game with many memories to share of great times they had. You can do a YouTube search for it and find countless tribute videos to the game, people sharing their memories and love of the game itself with any who might watch.
Both groups are playing the same MMO. The only difference is one takes the ideal approach to FFXI's setup. The other doesn't.
Now let's take another MMO... say... WoW or LoTRO or others from that mold. Those MMOs are clearly designed around the idea of quicker progress, shorter-term progression and overall a zippier journey to end-game. So much so that, when I played WoW, I *tried* progressing slowly, while still doing things. I found that despite my best efforts, I could never slow my progress down as much as I wanted to and always felt like I was being pushed along through the levels. I was, in that context, not playing WoW the way it was ideally designed to be played. For others, the rate of progress is great... those people likely are taking the ideal approach to it.
So... bringing this back to my point about XIV...
When I decided to give FFXIV another go, I came with the attitude that I would become an Adventurer... in the same sense I was in XI. I would treat it not as me playing a game, but as me inhabiting a virtual world - through my character - for a time. I wouldn't feel "obligated" to do anything. I would do what I felt like doing, and treat every activity with full attention.
That much would have been enough.
However, because I'm a huge fan of immersion (with games, books, movies, etc)... to enhance the experience, and really dig into the Adventurer mindset, I turned off all NPC and player names. I can't rely on floating names to conveniently know who everyone is before I've even approached them. I have to pay attention to what I'm told and seek those NPCs out as I would in a real life situation... by "talking to them". I turned the music down low (not off completely, as I do find the music pleasant in most places), this way the sounds of my environment stand out more.
Also, I'm traveling on foot to anywhere I can get in about 5-10 minutes; about the amount of time I'd be willing to walk to most places in real life. Anyplace farther than that, and I'll teleport. Sure it takes more time. But who cares? I'm not in a hurry. This not only helps immerse me in its own way, it helps me appreciate the scale of the world better... and helps me learn my way around. I'm also becoming familiar with the location of different creatures should I ever need to hunt them for crafting materials, etc. Even with the sameness of the reused elements of the maps... there are still landmarks or references I'm finding are useful in knowing where I am simply by paying attention while I'm traveling.
The results have been nothing short of very pleasant and enjoyable. I'm genuinely enjoying the game...
The difference? My approach to it. That's it.
Same game. Same content (though with some new stuff added or improved). The only thing that's changed is I'm no longer playing it in the "go go go...or do nothing" way I did before. I'm approaching it more as a world first... a game second.
Make no mistake.. My time is full. I'm working on Leatherworking and Pugilist mostly. You can see from my sig that Lancer is falling behind and I have made it a point to work on that today so it doesn't get *too* far behind.
I *would* like to see them add more content in terms of local storyline quests; NPCs who seek your help with their own tasks. Things like the Star Onion Brigade quest line in Windurst in XI (not *exactly* like that.. but the same idea). That part I do feel is missing from XIV.
So - in my opinion - like FFXI... the way I'm playing the game now (even without the added factors of disabling names, lowering the music and walking most places), seems to be the ideal way to approach FFXIV.
Again, at least to me.. Approach is everything.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Ya i really do agree with you. I stopped playing because the UI was just so clunky slow and terrible. It honestly felt like it was against you. After the update it feels way more responsive and a lot more fluid. Everything is just running great now even my fps have went up about 30. Give the game a second shot, square knows the messed up at least they addmitted to it and are taking quick actions to fix what they can.
The UI was something I was used to unfortunately. I LOVE the facelift they gave to it. Just about everything is dragable, I noticed how the FPS jumped up tremendously and everything is running like a charm! I think I may be falling in love with this game again. I haven't found any of the new content, if they added (I didn't look at the patch notes), but everything is running much better than it was before and I am not wasting time scrolling through my inventory and waiting for gear to be equipped, then running through and readding commands. It's a sign of redemption, I am awestruck that they came back strong with this patch. All the talk they've been mentioning during the apologies is justified. I thought they were full of it when they kept mentioning the updates after just about every question, but they have my attention now. Thanks SE, wonderful patch!
Yeah, I decided to come back and give it another go with this round of free playtime. I figured it's on SE's dime; what did I have to lose?
I also decided this time to take a different approach to the game than I did last time. Last time I played it more like a game...
[...]
... I *would* like to see them add more content in terms of local storyline quests; NPCs who seek your help with their own tasks. Things like the Star Onion Brigade quest line in Windurst in XI (not *exactly* like that.. but the same idea). That part I do feel is missing from XIV.
So - in my opinion - like FFXI... the way I'm playing the game now (even without the added factors of disabling names, lowering the music and walking most places), seems to be the ideal way to approach FFXIV.
Again, at least to me.. Approach is everything.
I salute you Mike! You describe exactly what this game is about, much like FFXI. They are so much alike yet so different, like the two sides of a coin. The substance or foundation is the same. A vivid, beautifull world, a place to share with other people that enjoy to shut down from their regular jobs and life for a few hours and just do whatever they feel like.
I could not have said it better, glad you found your pace and enjoy the game. I also agree that it does need more content but i am sure we will be seeing some amazing and unique things in the next few months. (The Goblins are on their way).
PS: I also play with names off and music either completely off or very low. I can't stand the name plates it just ruins the immersion for me.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
I salute you Mike! You describe exactly what this game is about, much like FFXI. They are so much alike yet so different, like the two sides of a coin. The substance or foundation is the same. A vivid, beautifull world, a place to share with other people that enjoy to shut down from their regular jobs and life for a few hours and just do whatever they feel like.
lol thanks.
Yeah it's funny. I was doing some leves with a ls-mate earlier and they commented how XIV is feeling more like XI as we go along.. The same, but different, as you stated. I tend to agree with that assessment. It feels familiar, but new.
I could not have said it better, glad you found your pace and enjoy the game. I also agree that it does need more content but i am sure we will be seeing some amazing and unique things in the next few months. (The Goblins are on their way).
Yeah... Honestly, it's kind of a /facepalm thing for me. One of the reasons I was eager for XIV and was hopeful for was that it would provide that same kind of "adventurous" experience that I loved about XI. Then I go into the game and play it like I would most any other MMO... and ended up disappointed. Go figure.
As for Goblns... Yes! I was psyched when I saw that. Don't know why 'cause Altana knows I should hate the little @!^#-ers after all the times they've killed me.. Freakin' jungles... Regardless, Goblins are my favorite beastman type mob in that game. I'm especially a fan of the Bounty Hunters. So yeah... I'm looking forward to dying from Bomb Tosses and Goblin Rushes in the coming months heheh.
PS: I also play with names off and music either completely off or very low. I can't stand the name plates it just ruins the immersion for me.
Yep. Never been a fan of having names active. Though in other MMOs, it don't phase me so much. I guess because, again, there's no sense of immersion to the games for me to capture or enhance anyway. But in a game like XIV, it just seems fitting to have them off.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I didn't mind the UI before, but now it's what it should've been always. This game was good with the confirmations and slow responding UI (wasn't that bad as long as you had a super computer), but now it's a great, I say a near 10. If you don't have a gamepad, I'd highly recommend one. You can get cheaper ones on amazon or ebay for like $10.
Since it seems most MMORPG Dev's can't resist releasing their games as buggy messes, I've instituted a policy of not playing games at launch, I wait at least 3 months if not more until I"m sure they've stabilized things and released the game that it should have been from the start.
I waited a year for Fallen Earth and its worked out well, the game's fun and stable and I'm enjoying myself without the usual lauch time shenanigans.
I'll do the same with FFXIV, wait till they get it where it should be and then see how it goes.
while i might not share your sentiments over fallen earth, just lately i can't help feeling that its a good idea to give some games a bit of a 'breathing space' to get themselves sorted out... i hate paying to beta personally
Not just some games all games, and even not just MMO's anymore. I mean look at Black Ops on launch day with the game breaking lag, and still the issues Fallout had and has. Anymore I never buy a game without first pirating it to test it out(or a demo if available, but those are even rare anymore more I suppose because of the state games are released in to hide it).
@ WSIMike : Hrm, what happened to your praise for DF? I remember reaeding some of your posts over there saying how much you loved the game and will stick with playing it for a long time to come, yet now your here apparently. It seems to me like you go from game to game and post huge walls of text about any game that has a lot of bad press from posters here just to argue and debate. Hard for me to tell if you have actually played either game, as mostly your posts/points are very general and don't really show you have played. Not that it matters, just saying.
When I decided to give FFXIV another go, I came with the attitude that I would become an Adventurer... in the same sense I was in XI. I would treat it not as me playing a game, but as me inhabiting a virtual world - through my character - for a time. I wouldn't feel "obligated" to do anything. I would do what I felt like doing, and treat every activity with full attention.
That much would have been enough.
However, because I'm a huge fan of immersion (with games, books, movies, etc)... to enhance the experience, and really dig into the Adventurer mindset, I turned off all NPC and player names. I can't rely on floating names to conveniently know who everyone is before I've even approached them. I have to pay attention to what I'm told and seek those NPCs out as I would in a real life situation... by "talking to them". I turned the music down low (not off completely, as I do find the music pleasant in most places), this way the sounds of my environment stand out more.
Also, I'm traveling on foot to anywhere I can get in about 5-10 minutes; about the amount of time I'd be willing to walk to most places in real life. Anyplace farther than that, and I'll teleport. Sure it takes more time. But who cares? I'm not in a hurry. This not only helps immerse me in its own way, it helps me appreciate the scale of the world better... and helps me learn my way around. I'm also becoming familiar with the location of different creatures should I ever need to hunt them for crafting materials, etc. Even with the sameness of the reused elements of the maps... there are still landmarks or references I'm finding are useful in knowing where I am simply by paying attention while I'm traveling.
The results have been nothing short of very pleasant and enjoyable. I'm genuinely enjoying the game...
The difference? My approach to it. That's it.
I wish more people would take this approach to each game and understand that these games are not supposed to all be the same.
What you essentially describe is how I've been playing it. A very slow and steady type of game play where I try to learn one new thing each time I log in.
For instance, I can now sell things (never did that before) and I now know how to fix my equipment. I also know where the market wards are as I was never clear on where exactly they were.
Of course I play super casually so it will be a very long haul but I"m determined to stick with it for a bit as it's a nice diversion over some of the more straight forward mmo's.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
@ WSIMike : Hrm, what happened to your praise for DF? I remember reaeding some of your posts over there saying how much you loved the game and will stick with playing it for a long time to come, yet now your here apparently. It seems to me like you go from game to game and post huge walls of text about any game that has a lot of bad press from posters here just to argue and debate. Hard for me to tell if you have actually played either game, as mostly your posts/points are very general and don't really show you have played. Not that it matters, just saying.
Well, it mattered enough to prompt you to type that up, now didn't it?
I do think DF is a great game with a lot of potential. I love the setting, the environment and the world design overall. I love an open PvP environment. I think it has a solid foundation and can be a "slow-burning" game like Eve Online if AV plays their cards right. For me personally, let's just say the less than honest behavior of certain members of its in-game community turned me away. Absent them, the game is great and I'd still be playing.
As for your doubting whether I actually play the MMOs I talk about. Well, let's try this... using FFXIV as an example, since these are the forums for that game.
See that green banner below my post? It has a portrait of a character named Shanree Avolara? It has different numbers in it? That's the banner for my FFXIV character. Those numbers represent my physical level and the levels of the classes I'm playing since I returned some days ago and started a new character. It updates at least once a day. I obtained those levels by *actually playing the game*. Crazy concept, I know.
I realize you were caught up with playing "gotcha" with me and it probably escaped your attention... But really, the banner's *right there* in front of you.
Great detective work there, Columbo.
Oh... In case that's "too general" for you and not "specific enough"... Here's my Lodestone page. Be sure to check the History section; it has an on-going log of achievements, day by day.
Beyond that, I have a sizable online gallery of screenshots from other MMOs I apparently "never actually played" by your reasoning. If you'd like I can provide you a link to it... you know... "not that it matters".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I am sure it is just fine, but only those willing to suffer through the miserable experience before will ever be able to see the trial. I am not ever going to pay for the chance to test out a game. If they are going to put an eligibility date on the trial of what is essentially a beta, they are going to lose a great many people.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Everyone seems to think this is the miraculous patch everone was waiting for ...I just think too late SE. If the troubles could be fixed in one patch why wouldnt it be included at launch? Stop taking us for rat labs and test your $hit prior to launch.
Like I said before previously... people look for reasons to strike a arguement... essentially like you are. Sure I think Square Enix thought maybe what they was doing was a good idea... but it failed so they changed it... and did it fairly quick.
like having a bad UI is a good idea? Lacking content is a good idea? Console designed UI not suitable for a Pc a good idea? Ho!! yeah GJ Se you fix one of the 3 main problems that each seperately would make me leave the game. When will you fix the 2 others(there are other less important that would need to be fixed too, like bot invasion)?
Whatever you think there will always be someone against you and they will have arguments whether you like it or not .
[Mod Edit]
They are not bad ideas its your bloody opinion , just because you dont like certain things doesnt mean everyone else or others wont like them , just stfu and give it a rest will you.
@ WSIMike : Hrm, what happened to your praise for DF? I remember reaeding some of your posts over there saying how much you loved the game and will stick with playing it for a long time to come, yet now your here apparently. It seems to me like you go from game to game and post huge walls of text about any game that has a lot of bad press from posters here just to argue and debate. Hard for me to tell if you have actually played either game, as mostly your posts/points are very general and don't really show you have played. Not that it matters, just saying.
Well, it mattered enough to prompt you to type that up, now didn't it?
I do think DF is a great game with a lot of potential. I love the setting, the environment and the world design overall. I love an open PvP environment. I think it has a solid foundation and can be a "slow-burning" game like Eve Online if AV plays their cards right. For me personally, let's just say the less than honest behavior of certain members of its in-game community turned me away. Absent them, the game is great and I'd still be playing.
As for your doubting whether I actually play the MMOs I talk about. Well, let's try this... using FFXIV as an example, since these are the forums for that game.
See that green banner below my post? It has a portrait of a character named Shanree Avolara? It has different numbers in it? That's the banner for my FFXIV character. Those numbers represent my physical level and the levels of the classes I'm playing since I returned some days ago and started a new character. It updates at least once a day. I obtained those levels by *actually playing the game*. Crazy concept, I know.
I realize you were caught up with playing "gotcha" with me and it probably escaped your attention... But really, the banner's *right there* in front of you.
Great detective work there, Columbo.
Oh... In case that's "too general" for you and not "specific enough"... Here's my Lodestone page. Be sure to check the History section; it has an on-going log of achievements, day by day.
Beyond that, I have a sizable online gallery of screenshots from other MMOs I apparently "never actually played" by your reasoning. If you'd like I can provide you a link to it... you know... "not that it matters".
Sigh, I am not trying to argue with you and I was saying it doesn't matter because I really don't care. I basically was just stating of what I have seen of your posts it didn't seem that you had played. So I wasn't necessarilly going to trust them. Yes I did notice the banner below your name, but I have also seen those banners as being static images.. or people that just stick them in their sig with no link or a link to said game/etc.
I find it funny how you retailiate by attacking me, I was not in any way doing so to you. Just pointing out you are somewhat of a hypocrite in general which was not a personal attack as most people are(including myself at times).
Sigh, I am not trying to argue with you and I was saying it doesn't matter because I really don't care. I basically was just stating of what I have seen of your posts it didn't seem that you had played. So I wasn't necessarilly going to trust them. Yes I did notice the banner below your name, but I have also seen those banners as being static images.. or people that just stick them in their sig with no link or a link to said game/etc.
Ah... Not trying to argue. I see.
So you thought you'd just make a couple drive-by swipes at me and the posts I make, and then express doubt about whether I actually play the games I discuss... And you expected to do this without any reprisal at all?
Really?
If you weren't looking for an argument, you should have minded your own business and kept your "observations and opinions" about me to yourself. That's how you "avoid an argument".
I find it funny how you retailiate by attacking me, I was not in any way doing so to you just pointing out you are somewhat of a hypocrite in general which was not a personal attack as most people are in general(including myself at times).
Attacking you? No.
Poking fun at your baseless presumption? Absolutely.
As for me being a hypocrite... Ooooookay. Another arbitrary assertion. Curious as I am to know where you come to that conclusion, I don't want to derail this thread any more than it has been... So, I'm just gonna consider the source on that and back away slowly.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Sigh, I am not trying to argue with you and I was saying it doesn't matter because I really don't care. I basically was just stating of what I have seen of your posts it didn't seem that you had played. So I wasn't necessarilly going to trust them. Yes I did notice the banner below your name, but I have also seen those banners as being static images.. or people that just stick them in their sig with no link or a link to said game/etc.
Ah... Not trying to argue. I see.
So you thought you'd just make a couple drive-by swipes at me and the posts I make, and then express doubt about whether I actually play the games I discuss... And you expected to do this without any reprisal at all?
Really?
If you weren't looking for an argument, you should have minded your own business and kept your "observations and opinions" about me to yourself. That's how you "avoid an argument".
I was simply just making a general statement for others to know the small issue I saw with your post. Just because I stated my opinion/observation does not mean I was looking to argue.
I find it funny how you retailiate by attacking me, I was not in any way doing so to you just pointing out you are somewhat of a hypocrite in general which was not a personal attack as most people are in general(including myself at times).
Attacking you? No.
Poking fun at your baseless presumption? Absolutely.
As for me being a hypocrite... Ooooookay. Another arbitrary assertion. Curious as I am to know where you come to that conclusion, I don't want to derail this thread any more than it has been... So, I'm just gonna consider the source on that and back away slowly.
That conclusion came from how much you had praised DF in a few threads and stated you would be sticking around for a long time, and telling others that gave it bad reviews they need to stick with the game longer. However less than a month or so after those posts your gone and here now.
Anyways, I am not going to talk on this anymore as it's off-topic and pointless. So good luck in whatever you play next.
I was simply just making a general statement for others to know the small issue I saw with your post. Just because I stated my opinion/observation does not mean I was looking to argue.
Oh, give it a rest and cut the disingenuous crap already.
You "don't really care" and "it doesn't really matter", but yet you felt compelled to "let others know a small issue you have with my post".
You attempted to call me out on something based on absolutely nothing but some cockamamie idea in your own head. You took a passive-aggressive swipe at me and my posts, and you questioned my honesty by "doubting whether I actually play the games I post about".
You pull crap like that, yes... you're goddamn right I'm going to respond. You don't get to slither out of it by saying "oh, I don't want to argue".
If you don't want an argument, then keep your uninformed opinions to yourself. If you must express your views, then expect a response. It really is that simple.
That conclusion came from how much you had praised DF in a few threads and stated you would be sticking around for a long time, and telling others that gave it bad reviews they need to stick with the game longer. However less than a month or so after those posts your gone and here now.
I explained myself regarding DF in my first response. I guess you didn't read it.
To summarize: I'm fine with Darkfall. I'm not fine with the behavior of some of its players.
Comprende?
And, no... stating an intention to do something and then later deciding not to do so for unforeseen reasons is not "hypocrisy". It's called "changing your mind due to unforeseen circumstances".
Stop putting words in my mouth. I never told people to stick with the game longer. Others can think and decide for themselves.
Anyways, I am not going to talk on this anymore as it's off-topic and pointless. So good luck in whatever you play next.
Yes. You making those remarks in the first place was pointless.
You finally get it.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I could never wrap my head around the idea of changing my playstyle to suit a game. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Good games offer various outlets for different playstyles; XIV does not. FFXI and WoW are two totally different games, but I played them the same way and managed to have a blast in both. The only expectation I have when playing an MMO is to have fun with friends. XIV put so much in the way of the fun that no matter how drastically I shifted my perspective, there was no chance I could have fun for an extended amount of time.
All I can say is, SE should be really damn thankful to their fans for sticking with them through this debacle. Had this game been released by anyone else I don't think it would have a fighting chance.
I could never wrap my head around the idea of changing my playstyle to suit a game. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Good games offer various outlets for different playstyles; XIV does not. FFXI and WoW are two totally different games, but I played them the same way and managed to have a blast in both. The only expectation I have when playing an MMO is to have fun with friends. XIV put so much in the way of the fun that no matter how drastically I shifted my perspective, there was no chance I could have fun for an extended amount of time.
All I can say is, SE should be really damn thankful to their fans for sticking with them through this debacle. Had this game been released by anyone else I don't think it would have a fighting chance.
Enter the phrase "To each their own."
I still would contend, though, that approach has everything to do with it... and it's not a cut-and-dry issue. It's not like "you play it this way, or you play it that way". There are shades of grey in between.
In your case, your personal "shade of grey" seems to work with both XI and WoW. My personal approach doesn't. WoW simply doesn't support it.
Ironically, my first time through on XIV, I was playing the game the way I beleived would allow me to have fun with friends. We would group up and do our leves. We would group up and do some grinding. Etc. The result, though, was that because our approach was so *specific* and, frankly, generic and unimaginative, that the result was us burning out and getting bored.
It seems I wasn't approaching XIV in the way that suits it the best... *for me*.
Since I'm back and approaching FFXIV in an entirely different way... I'm having a blast with new folks I've met in my linkshell and am always looking forward to the next time we get to group up. No boredom at all. There is nothing "getting in the way of my fun" at all. The only thing getting in my way last time, was me.
But again... to each their own.
I'm not going to evangelize that others should play the game as I do. I will say that the approach I'm taking works... at least for me.. and for some others I've discussed it with.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Square Enix is going to grab a strong hold on PS3 market while already failed in PC market, so I think it doesnt matter how they tweak the UI from worse to better status, however, still far away from being Good.
After watching several reviews on Youtube, the problem is not just UI, you still need to do many clicks and browse through the entire UI to get one simple job done. In the past, you may lost in the UI maze, now, you may not lost in the UI, which it means better.
UI isn't even half of what's wrong with this game, but it did prevent people from seeing just how awful the general gameplay concepts and lack of content is... for a while.
Can you map movement to the cursor keys yet? I don't do WASD.
Have they added tons of mobs to the empty areas yet? Moving outside the starting area was like going into a deserted wilderness before?
They haven't implemented changing the movement keys yet, though I know that's slated for one of these two updates... I guess it'll be in the Dec update.
As for mob placement, I know they've adjusted placement and quantity of mobs overall throughout the different areas. I know I've seen numerous pockets of mobs that I've been able to level my skills up on pretty consistently. I'm around Gridania, so it's funguars and the such.
Haven't been outside LL or Uldah really, so can't speak to those areas really.
They've also changed up the location of leve mobs.. which has thrown a few folks off who thought they knew exactly where to go heheh.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
Game is playable. I enjoy it, and that's what matters. If you like wow, this isn't the game for you. Go play one of it's clones like Lotro or something.
Menus are a part of Final Fantasy. If you don't like them, I don't know what to tell you there. Again, You cannot compare this game to any MMO that aspires to be WoW. I would even go so far as to say that it is more involved 10 fold. Some people like to think when they play games as it presents a challenge.
And before the flaming starts, I do play WoW. And FFXIV. And each of them has their play time. This is the first time since I stopped playing FFXI due to being hacked that I have played more than 1 mmo. IMO, they are different enough to keep me entertained. Can't do that with another clone.
Intel Core i7 2600k 4.8ghz
Asus P8P67 Pro
8GB Corsair 1600 DDR3
Diamond Radeon 7970 3GB
3x Dell U2412M 6048x1200
2x 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 [Raid 0]
Windows 7 Ultimate x64
The UI was something I was used to unfortunately. I LOVE the facelift they gave to it. Just about everything is dragable, I noticed how the FPS jumped up tremendously and everything is running like a charm! I think I may be falling in love with this game again. I haven't found any of the new content, if they added (I didn't look at the patch notes), but everything is running much better than it was before and I am not wasting time scrolling through my inventory and waiting for gear to be equipped, then running through and readding commands. It's a sign of redemption, I am awestruck that they came back strong with this patch. All the talk they've been mentioning during the apologies is justified. I thought they were full of it when they kept mentioning the updates after just about every question, but they have my attention now. Thanks SE, wonderful patch!
Ah well in that case thanks for the apology (most wouldn't bother sadly) and for clearing it up.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Yeah, I decided to come back and give it another go with this round of free playtime. I figured it's on SE's dime; what did I have to lose?
I also decided this time to take a different approach to the game than I did last time. Last time I played it more like a game... as I would most other MMOs that, frankly, are designed to be that way.
To elaborate, last time I played, my friends and myself focused on grouping up, knocking out leves, going to the next city, knocking out leves... going to the third city and knocking out leves... maybe grinding mobs for a time. Then we'd be like "Well, what else can we do? Finished the current batch of storyline quests already. Not much else to do 'til the leves reset"... we'd maybe go look around or something... but ultimately, that was that. We logged out and, eventually, cancelled.
It was very much a "go go go... or do nothing" approach we were taking. In hindsight, it's no wonder we burned out as quickly as we did.
Some might ask "what's wrong with that?". Absolutely nothing - if you're playing a game designed around that sort of playstyle. FFXIV, it seems, isn't. And that's not necessarily a bad thing - unless you're wanting to play it that way... as I did at first, and others have as well.
I'll never say there's an absolute "right" or "wrong" way to play a MMO. However, I do argue strongly that there is an ideal way to play one... and that ideal approach is often conveyed through the design of the game itself.
FFXI, for example, is a MMO designed around a slower pace and longer progression curve than other so-called "casual friendly" MMOs. There are those who attempted to play it as they might a typical post WoW era MMO.. They'd try to race through it, trying to get to reach that finish line and hit end game as quickly as possible. They focused primarily on grinding levels as fast as they could at the exclusion of anything and everything that didn't contribute to that goal. Almost inevitably, many of those same people described it as a constant, frustrating upstream battle. They would leave the game after only months, complaining of what a shallow, slow grind it is. Why? Because FFXI was not designed for that style of gameplay.
Yet... those who dug in to the game for the long haul, who weren't in a hurry, who diversified their activities, who sought out to partake in a variety of the numerous different activities FFXI offered... loved the game and continued to play it for years. Those people often describe it as an awesome, immense and deep game with many memories to share of great times they had. You can do a YouTube search for it and find countless tribute videos to the game, people sharing their memories and love of the game itself with any who might watch.
Both groups are playing the same MMO. The only difference is one takes the ideal approach to FFXI's setup. The other doesn't.
Now let's take another MMO... say... WoW or LoTRO or others from that mold. Those MMOs are clearly designed around the idea of quicker progress, shorter-term progression and overall a zippier journey to end-game. So much so that, when I played WoW, I *tried* progressing slowly, while still doing things. I found that despite my best efforts, I could never slow my progress down as much as I wanted to and always felt like I was being pushed along through the levels. I was, in that context, not playing WoW the way it was ideally designed to be played. For others, the rate of progress is great... those people likely are taking the ideal approach to it.
So... bringing this back to my point about XIV...
When I decided to give FFXIV another go, I came with the attitude that I would become an Adventurer... in the same sense I was in XI. I would treat it not as me playing a game, but as me inhabiting a virtual world - through my character - for a time. I wouldn't feel "obligated" to do anything. I would do what I felt like doing, and treat every activity with full attention.
That much would have been enough.
However, because I'm a huge fan of immersion (with games, books, movies, etc)... to enhance the experience, and really dig into the Adventurer mindset, I turned off all NPC and player names. I can't rely on floating names to conveniently know who everyone is before I've even approached them. I have to pay attention to what I'm told and seek those NPCs out as I would in a real life situation... by "talking to them". I turned the music down low (not off completely, as I do find the music pleasant in most places), this way the sounds of my environment stand out more.
Also, I'm traveling on foot to anywhere I can get in about 5-10 minutes; about the amount of time I'd be willing to walk to most places in real life. Anyplace farther than that, and I'll teleport. Sure it takes more time. But who cares? I'm not in a hurry. This not only helps immerse me in its own way, it helps me appreciate the scale of the world better... and helps me learn my way around. I'm also becoming familiar with the location of different creatures should I ever need to hunt them for crafting materials, etc. Even with the sameness of the reused elements of the maps... there are still landmarks or references I'm finding are useful in knowing where I am simply by paying attention while I'm traveling.
The results have been nothing short of very pleasant and enjoyable. I'm genuinely enjoying the game...
The difference? My approach to it. That's it.
Same game. Same content (though with some new stuff added or improved). The only thing that's changed is I'm no longer playing it in the "go go go...or do nothing" way I did before. I'm approaching it more as a world first... a game second.
Make no mistake.. My time is full. I'm working on Leatherworking and Pugilist mostly. You can see from my sig that Lancer is falling behind and I have made it a point to work on that today so it doesn't get *too* far behind.
I *would* like to see them add more content in terms of local storyline quests; NPCs who seek your help with their own tasks. Things like the Star Onion Brigade quest line in Windurst in XI (not *exactly* like that.. but the same idea). That part I do feel is missing from XIV.
So - in my opinion - like FFXI... the way I'm playing the game now (even without the added factors of disabling names, lowering the music and walking most places), seems to be the ideal way to approach FFXIV.
Again, at least to me.. Approach is everything.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
^ Pretty much this for me.
It's a stretch for me to call the UI "amazing" feeling, but the overall experience is definitely an improved one. Nice one, SE.
pie.
I salute you Mike! You describe exactly what this game is about, much like FFXI. They are so much alike yet so different, like the two sides of a coin. The substance or foundation is the same. A vivid, beautifull world, a place to share with other people that enjoy to shut down from their regular jobs and life for a few hours and just do whatever they feel like.
I could not have said it better, glad you found your pace and enjoy the game. I also agree that it does need more content but i am sure we will be seeing some amazing and unique things in the next few months. (The Goblins are on their way).
PS: I also play with names off and music either completely off or very low. I can't stand the name plates it just ruins the immersion for me.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I didn't mind the UI before, but now it's what it should've been always. This game was good with the confirmations and slow responding UI (wasn't that bad as long as you had a super computer), but now it's a great, I say a near 10. If you don't have a gamepad, I'd highly recommend one. You can get cheaper ones on amazon or ebay for like $10.
Not just some games all games, and even not just MMO's anymore. I mean look at Black Ops on launch day with the game breaking lag, and still the issues Fallout had and has. Anymore I never buy a game without first pirating it to test it out(or a demo if available, but those are even rare anymore more I suppose because of the state games are released in to hide it).
@ WSIMike : Hrm, what happened to your praise for DF? I remember reaeding some of your posts over there saying how much you loved the game and will stick with playing it for a long time to come, yet now your here apparently. It seems to me like you go from game to game and post huge walls of text about any game that has a lot of bad press from posters here just to argue and debate. Hard for me to tell if you have actually played either game, as mostly your posts/points are very general and don't really show you have played. Not that it matters, just saying.
--------------------
-Currently playing FFXIV, and BDO.
I wish more people would take this approach to each game and understand that these games are not supposed to all be the same.
What you essentially describe is how I've been playing it. A very slow and steady type of game play where I try to learn one new thing each time I log in.
For instance, I can now sell things (never did that before) and I now know how to fix my equipment. I also know where the market wards are as I was never clear on where exactly they were.
Of course I play super casually so it will be a very long haul but I"m determined to stick with it for a bit as it's a nice diversion over some of the more straight forward mmo's.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well, it mattered enough to prompt you to type that up, now didn't it?
I do think DF is a great game with a lot of potential. I love the setting, the environment and the world design overall. I love an open PvP environment. I think it has a solid foundation and can be a "slow-burning" game like Eve Online if AV plays their cards right. For me personally, let's just say the less than honest behavior of certain members of its in-game community turned me away. Absent them, the game is great and I'd still be playing.
As for your doubting whether I actually play the MMOs I talk about. Well, let's try this... using FFXIV as an example, since these are the forums for that game.
See that green banner below my post? It has a portrait of a character named Shanree Avolara? It has different numbers in it? That's the banner for my FFXIV character. Those numbers represent my physical level and the levels of the classes I'm playing since I returned some days ago and started a new character. It updates at least once a day. I obtained those levels by *actually playing the game*. Crazy concept, I know.
I realize you were caught up with playing "gotcha" with me and it probably escaped your attention... But really, the banner's *right there* in front of you.
Great detective work there, Columbo.
Oh... In case that's "too general" for you and not "specific enough"... Here's my Lodestone page. Be sure to check the History section; it has an on-going log of achievements, day by day.
Beyond that, I have a sizable online gallery of screenshots from other MMOs I apparently "never actually played" by your reasoning. If you'd like I can provide you a link to it... you know... "not that it matters".
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I am sure it is just fine, but only those willing to suffer through the miserable experience before will ever be able to see the trial. I am not ever going to pay for the chance to test out a game. If they are going to put an eligibility date on the trial of what is essentially a beta, they are going to lose a great many people.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
They are not bad ideas its your bloody opinion , just because you dont like certain things doesnt mean everyone else or others wont like them , just stfu and give it a rest will you.
Sigh, I am not trying to argue with you and I was saying it doesn't matter because I really don't care. I basically was just stating of what I have seen of your posts it didn't seem that you had played. So I wasn't necessarilly going to trust them. Yes I did notice the banner below your name, but I have also seen those banners as being static images.. or people that just stick them in their sig with no link or a link to said game/etc.
I find it funny how you retailiate by attacking me, I was not in any way doing so to you. Just pointing out you are somewhat of a hypocrite in general which was not a personal attack as most people are(including myself at times).
--------------------
-Currently playing FFXIV, and BDO.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
--------------------
-Currently playing FFXIV, and BDO.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I could never wrap my head around the idea of changing my playstyle to suit a game. Shouldn't it be the other way around? Good games offer various outlets for different playstyles; XIV does not. FFXI and WoW are two totally different games, but I played them the same way and managed to have a blast in both. The only expectation I have when playing an MMO is to have fun with friends. XIV put so much in the way of the fun that no matter how drastically I shifted my perspective, there was no chance I could have fun for an extended amount of time.
All I can say is, SE should be really damn thankful to their fans for sticking with them through this debacle. Had this game been released by anyone else I don't think it would have a fighting chance.
Enter the phrase "To each their own."
I still would contend, though, that approach has everything to do with it... and it's not a cut-and-dry issue. It's not like "you play it this way, or you play it that way". There are shades of grey in between.
In your case, your personal "shade of grey" seems to work with both XI and WoW. My personal approach doesn't. WoW simply doesn't support it.
Ironically, my first time through on XIV, I was playing the game the way I beleived would allow me to have fun with friends. We would group up and do our leves. We would group up and do some grinding. Etc. The result, though, was that because our approach was so *specific* and, frankly, generic and unimaginative, that the result was us burning out and getting bored.
It seems I wasn't approaching XIV in the way that suits it the best... *for me*.
Since I'm back and approaching FFXIV in an entirely different way... I'm having a blast with new folks I've met in my linkshell and am always looking forward to the next time we get to group up. No boredom at all. There is nothing "getting in the way of my fun" at all. The only thing getting in my way last time, was me.
But again... to each their own.
I'm not going to evangelize that others should play the game as I do. I will say that the approach I'm taking works... at least for me.. and for some others I've discussed it with.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Square Enix is going to grab a strong hold on PS3 market while already failed in PC market, so I think it doesnt matter how they tweak the UI from worse to better status, however, still far away from being Good.
After watching several reviews on Youtube, the problem is not just UI, you still need to do many clicks and browse through the entire UI to get one simple job done. In the past, you may lost in the UI maze, now, you may not lost in the UI, which it means better.
UI isn't even half of what's wrong with this game, but it did prevent people from seeing just how awful the general gameplay concepts and lack of content is... for a while.
Can you map movement to the cursor keys yet? I don't do WASD.
Have they added tons of mobs to the empty areas yet? Moving outside the starting area was like going into a deserted wilderness before?
They haven't implemented changing the movement keys yet, though I know that's slated for one of these two updates... I guess it'll be in the Dec update.
As for mob placement, I know they've adjusted placement and quantity of mobs overall throughout the different areas. I know I've seen numerous pockets of mobs that I've been able to level my skills up on pretty consistently. I'm around Gridania, so it's funguars and the such.
Haven't been outside LL or Uldah really, so can't speak to those areas really.
They've also changed up the location of leve mobs.. which has thrown a few folks off who thought they knew exactly where to go heheh.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops