I read the OP and I instantly thought of Vanguard.
In your personal opinion, bad or good thing? To me Vanguard was the correct path of which mmos should of taken. But well, it didn't produce.
Good thing largely. I'm playing at the moment, and as far as I can tell it ticks all the boxes in the OP. Vanguard has had troubles but I don't think the core concept of the game had anything to do with it.
I guess if anything the whole Vanguard saga may shed a bit of insight into the reason the game you dream of doesn't exist. It takes a long time to develop and is incredibly difficult to pull off technically. Long development times increase the amount of funding required to get the game to launch as does the technical difficulties. No MMO can survive having its funding pulled out from under it and being released in a borderline unplayable state. Throw in an arrogant, greedy, blood sucking takeover corp a dash of game development politics and the game we want doesn't take off to show the industry what a deep, group based game is capable of.
Imagine a game developer trying to convince a potential stakeholder how a Vanguard 2 could be a success. Very difficult to say the least.
Rather than go back the genre needs to go forward. Don't get me wrong i loved old school games but some of those mechanics didn't age well. Rare mob camping was fun at the time but with much bigger mmo populations as well as professional farmers and most of us having grown up and don't have the time to actually sit in front of a computer for 8hrs+.
The last few years mmo's have followed a predictable (and boring) path. Too many are hand holding, linear, kill x mobs, fed ex this parcel, oh look at this wonderful new shiny thing to bedazzle you so you don't notice the rest of the game is exactly the same as the one your playing now. The ones that attempt something different or unique seem ti never have enough funding or expertise to actual deliver what in theory should be a good game.
At the moment i don't want to play any mmo on the market. I get either a been there done that feeling when i log in or i just can't log in lol. I want something new, i want to go "wow thats cool" again not be saying "is that it?" or spend some time working out the game systems rather than knowing what they will be before i even log in, i want to feel excitement not boredom.
I don't think its impossible and i hope GW2 is a step in the right direction but the genre has so much potential i hope i don't have to wait another decade to start seeing it.
I can consider myself too as vet, even in mine RL lvl which hits soon 53, and still I-m in MMOs tho...
I miss those times of ol[object Window] EQ1, not nerfed with PoP, Nexus with continent connection was so-so. Sometimes ya miss those times sitting and waiting ship to the ocean of Tears to find my missing part of epic. But Nexus wasn[object Window]t so bad dumbdown as PoP did.
Many my new-age friends who came later, LoTRO their first cant understand it. But they are run-run-run... where= end-game?
Sad, ya ppl miss half the game when not more. That hard beating, gathering lvl and loosing it after masny corpse-runs, that made ya familiar with ya class, ya fixed all ya combat tactics, learned ya skills. Now when ya run thru 5 lvls per week, getting tens of new skills at that week, ya even don[object Window]t have time to use them. But that is need of new generations - solo single game players.
To talk about tactics and strategy is again so-so - I can[object Window]t say totally that new MMOs lost it - yes, some end bosses in WoW or LoTRO are very cleverly built and need aggregation of nearly all different classes skills to win. But many, mostly F2P ones where RMT is crucial are made so that key for win isn[object Window]t tactics, key is to buy and use as many potions/artefacts/magic one can only buy from cashshops so delivering mass of profit to game devs. And so they intents are not make any more interesting solutions but to produce even more dumbed, but real money consuming samples.
About community again it depends where and when ya happened - mostly high degree is dumbasses, and that is when ya bring into game not thousands but millions, we know about average IQ and many of us have seen Idiocracy.... But still I can say in LoTRO I have found one nice family, guild which has started again at times of EQ1 and still went thry ages, leaders growing old etc. And they are ppl who[object Window]s need for community isn[object Window]t only [object Window]to beat down thata mofo ugly bad-ass boss[object Window] and then leave away not even talk a word with ya team-mates, but they are ppl gathering around to celebrate some events, both VR and RL together, I can say even at New Year I logged on to creet my fellows. So community depends hardly how much of what category ppl game drags in.
Now going back to roots... No, that can[object Window]t be done for big [object Window]so-callled AAA[object Window] companies - they are out only to drag as much $$$ from ya as they can. They are mostly public companies, counted on stocks, and their one and only goal is to show growing profit, more $$$ from every player. This is basement of capitalism and can[object Window]t be changed. Our game, our old-school MMO, can arose only by two ways as I see:
* If some already awafully rich guy who is enormously rich and have already bought every luxury car in world, and every plane, and every penthouse, and who was in his youth some nerd no-lifer MMO player finds suddenly - I miss those times in such a good company! And then takes some hundreds of millions $$$ and gather some hundreds of best devs and says to them: I wanna again play The Game I like it is. And then The Game will developed, and issued, and played. And every [object Window]get-me-all-and-now[object Window] whiner will be just thrown away. Then we can see some major thing.
* Second way is much more simpler, ands as OP sayd who have contacts with game developing, is aslo doable - that is indie way to go. If we havn[object Window]t some greedy stockers behind who yelling show me profit now and more!, then company can come out with their own ideas. Yes, that public, we, old-timers, isn[object Window]t crowd ya can ever dream numbers in millions. But why we need millions if we already know - among millions we can only get bad community, bad mouth, bad habits, and bad gameplay. It[object Window]s like in movies - ya must not make blockbusters which is run over by millions and from what ya get , yes billion of profit, but to make one ya have spent nearly same sum. If ya have nice gang of devs who each earn they salary which is good enough to live, and maybe 3-4-5 times better than in average boring work, havn[object Window]t ya satisfied?
So in here I see future. Many ppl say after tremendous rise of McDonalds and Hes[object Window]s etc that now is over time for little family restaurants. But see they are survived and many live better than ever thought. if I have chanche to choose I never touch that burger-crap but sit down in nice family-pub even when that food and drink costs me dome extra $$$. Same is about games. And when some say- time is over for old and ya must start to use new models - I say NO! IF that time comes where all MMOs are crap F2P RMT buckwindmills, I stay away in my pen-n-paper RPGs with my friends and that[object Window]s enough.
But still that sad day - big wishes to ya MMO, Eronaki, and I[object Window]ll be there supporting ya way! Peace.
Comments
In your personal opinion, bad or good thing? To me Vanguard was the correct path of which mmos should of taken. But well, it didn't produce.
Good thing largely. I'm playing at the moment, and as far as I can tell it ticks all the boxes in the OP. Vanguard has had troubles but I don't think the core concept of the game had anything to do with it.
I guess if anything the whole Vanguard saga may shed a bit of insight into the reason the game you dream of doesn't exist. It takes a long time to develop and is incredibly difficult to pull off technically. Long development times increase the amount of funding required to get the game to launch as does the technical difficulties. No MMO can survive having its funding pulled out from under it and being released in a borderline unplayable state. Throw in an arrogant, greedy, blood sucking takeover corp a dash of game development politics and the game we want doesn't take off to show the industry what a deep, group based game is capable of.
Imagine a game developer trying to convince a potential stakeholder how a Vanguard 2 could be a success. Very difficult to say the least.
MUNDO!!
Rather than go back the genre needs to go forward. Don't get me wrong i loved old school games but some of those mechanics didn't age well. Rare mob camping was fun at the time but with much bigger mmo populations as well as professional farmers and most of us having grown up and don't have the time to actually sit in front of a computer for 8hrs+.
The last few years mmo's have followed a predictable (and boring) path. Too many are hand holding, linear, kill x mobs, fed ex this parcel, oh look at this wonderful new shiny thing to bedazzle you so you don't notice the rest of the game is exactly the same as the one your playing now. The ones that attempt something different or unique seem ti never have enough funding or expertise to actual deliver what in theory should be a good game.
At the moment i don't want to play any mmo on the market. I get either a been there done that feeling when i log in or i just can't log in lol. I want something new, i want to go "wow thats cool" again not be saying "is that it?" or spend some time working out the game systems rather than knowing what they will be before i even log in, i want to feel excitement not boredom.
I don't think its impossible and i hope GW2 is a step in the right direction but the genre has so much potential i hope i don't have to wait another decade to start seeing it.
Great post, Eronakis! Great. period. Great.
I can consider myself too as vet, even in mine RL lvl which hits soon 53, and still I-m in MMOs tho...
I miss those times of ol[object Window] EQ1, not nerfed with PoP, Nexus with continent connection was so-so. Sometimes ya miss those times sitting and waiting ship to the ocean of Tears to find my missing part of epic. But Nexus wasn[object Window]t so bad dumbdown as PoP did.
Many my new-age friends who came later, LoTRO their first cant understand it. But they are run-run-run... where= end-game?
Sad, ya ppl miss half the game when not more. That hard beating, gathering lvl and loosing it after masny corpse-runs, that made ya familiar with ya class, ya fixed all ya combat tactics, learned ya skills. Now when ya run thru 5 lvls per week, getting tens of new skills at that week, ya even don[object Window]t have time to use them. But that is need of new generations - solo single game players.
To talk about tactics and strategy is again so-so - I can[object Window]t say totally that new MMOs lost it - yes, some end bosses in WoW or LoTRO are very cleverly built and need aggregation of nearly all different classes skills to win. But many, mostly F2P ones where RMT is crucial are made so that key for win isn[object Window]t tactics, key is to buy and use as many potions/artefacts/magic one can only buy from cashshops so delivering mass of profit to game devs. And so they intents are not make any more interesting solutions but to produce even more dumbed, but real money consuming samples.
About community again it depends where and when ya happened - mostly high degree is dumbasses, and that is when ya bring into game not thousands but millions, we know about average IQ and many of us have seen Idiocracy.... But still I can say in LoTRO I have found one nice family, guild which has started again at times of EQ1 and still went thry ages, leaders growing old etc. And they are ppl who[object Window]s need for community isn[object Window]t only [object Window]to beat down thata mofo ugly bad-ass boss[object Window] and then leave away not even talk a word with ya team-mates, but they are ppl gathering around to celebrate some events, both VR and RL together, I can say even at New Year I logged on to creet my fellows. So community depends hardly how much of what category ppl game drags in.
Now going back to roots... No, that can[object Window]t be done for big [object Window]so-callled AAA[object Window] companies - they are out only to drag as much $$$ from ya as they can. They are mostly public companies, counted on stocks, and their one and only goal is to show growing profit, more $$$ from every player. This is basement of capitalism and can[object Window]t be changed. Our game, our old-school MMO, can arose only by two ways as I see:
* If some already awafully rich guy who is enormously rich and have already bought every luxury car in world, and every plane, and every penthouse, and who was in his youth some nerd no-lifer MMO player finds suddenly - I miss those times in such a good company! And then takes some hundreds of millions $$$ and gather some hundreds of best devs and says to them: I wanna again play The Game I like it is. And then The Game will developed, and issued, and played. And every [object Window]get-me-all-and-now[object Window] whiner will be just thrown away. Then we can see some major thing.
* Second way is much more simpler, ands as OP sayd who have contacts with game developing, is aslo doable - that is indie way to go. If we havn[object Window]t some greedy stockers behind who yelling show me profit now and more!, then company can come out with their own ideas. Yes, that public, we, old-timers, isn[object Window]t crowd ya can ever dream numbers in millions. But why we need millions if we already know - among millions we can only get bad community, bad mouth, bad habits, and bad gameplay. It[object Window]s like in movies - ya must not make blockbusters which is run over by millions and from what ya get , yes billion of profit, but to make one ya have spent nearly same sum. If ya have nice gang of devs who each earn they salary which is good enough to live, and maybe 3-4-5 times better than in average boring work, havn[object Window]t ya satisfied?
So in here I see future. Many ppl say after tremendous rise of McDonalds and Hes[object Window]s etc that now is over time for little family restaurants. But see they are survived and many live better than ever thought. if I have chanche to choose I never touch that burger-crap but sit down in nice family-pub even when that food and drink costs me dome extra $$$. Same is about games. And when some say- time is over for old and ya must start to use new models - I say NO! IF that time comes where all MMOs are crap F2P RMT buckwindmills, I stay away in my pen-n-paper RPGs with my friends and that[object Window]s enough.
But still that sad day - big wishes to ya MMO, Eronaki, and I[object Window]ll be there supporting ya way!
Peace.
[object Window]